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Roadster ground clearance #618684
23/02/20 08:00 PM
23/02/20 08:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,390
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline OP
Talk Morgan Expert
Richard Wood  Offline OP
Talk Morgan Expert

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,390
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Specifically latest 3.7 Roadster with factory 5 link suspension. A "short cut" through the centre of Lincoln the other day had me negotiating cobbled streets followed by odd shaped speed bumps, Although taken at walking pace the last one caught me out with a crunch felt through the seat of my pants.

Investigation once home revealed it was one of the four rear seat runner fixings through a box section cross member of the chassis. The factory fitted 5/16" UNF bolts are 2 1/2 inches long, leaving an ugly half inch of protruding thread. This one was not only severely scuffed at the end but found to be noticeably bent as well once removed! So there you have it - your bum is barely three inches from the ground in a Roadster scared

I have some stainless 2 1/4" inch replacement bolts on order which I will use with matching washers and nylocks. May shave a little off them to maximise extra clearance but 2" ones found to be a tad too short.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Roadster ground clearance [Re: Richard Wood] #618687
23/02/20 08:18 PM
23/02/20 08:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,181
Australia - NSW Mid North Coas...
OZ 4/4 Offline
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OZ 4/4  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,181
Australia - NSW Mid North Coas...
Concerning. The ground clearance issue has been a problem for a long while with the Roadster and Plus 4 in particular


A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
Re: Roadster ground clearance [Re: Richard Wood] #618707
23/02/20 09:43 PM
23/02/20 09:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 509
Colorado, USA
B
britmog Offline
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britmog  Offline
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B

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 509
Colorado, USA
Its not just speed humps but also rainwater gullies. Over here storm drains can be like canals to a Morgan of any designation, you quickly learn to negotiate at an angle to even out the decent/accent. Nothing concerning just a fact of life.


Bruce Marshall
1964 4/4 Series V Comp (Megan)
1994 +8 (Maurice)
2013 M3W (Olga)
Re: Roadster ground clearance [Re: Richard Wood] #618739
24/02/20 12:08 AM
24/02/20 12:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 885
Aberdeenshire
E
Eddie Cairns Offline
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Eddie Cairns  Offline
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E

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 885
Aberdeenshire
What was the steel grade of the carbon steel bolt and what is the steel grade of the proposed SS bolts. I assume you have checked the strenght of each grade of material.

Re: Roadster ground clearance [Re: Eddie Cairns] #618741
24/02/20 02:11 AM
24/02/20 02:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,505
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Needs to Get Out More!
Hamwich  Offline
Needs to Get Out More!

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,505
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by Eddie Cairns
What was the steel grade of the carbon steel bolt and what is the steel grade of the proposed SS bolts. I assume you have checked the strenght of each grade of material.


Going by

https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/materials-and-grades/bolt-grade-chart.aspx

it would seem that for the size of bolt, an ordinary carbon steel bolt would have a minimum yield strength of 57000psi and a minimum tensile strength of 74000psi whereas a typical A2 bolt would have equivalent figures of 450MPa (ie 6500psi) and 700MPa (ie 100000psi), so one has a reasonable expectation that stainless replacements would be fine unless the standard bolts are HT for some reason.

As the seat mountings are subject to very little load at all in normal use, a fraction of a g in cornering, and in an accident all the main forces would be on the seat belt mountings, I would think Richard doesn't have a great deal to worry about.

I replaced my seat mounting bolts with M8 A2 capscrews many years ago. The way I see it, with no roll protection, no side protection, and no airbags, If I prang my Morgan it won't be the seat coming adrift that is going to kill me.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
Re: Roadster ground clearance [Re: Eddie Cairns] #618749
24/02/20 07:48 AM
24/02/20 07:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,390
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline OP
Talk Morgan Expert
Richard Wood  Offline OP
Talk Morgan Expert

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,390
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Originally Posted by Eddie Cairns
What was the steel grade of the carbon steel bolt and what is the steel grade of the proposed SS bolts. I assume you have checked the strenght of each grade of material.


Grade 5 bolts Eddie being replaced by A4 stainless with similar psi.

ETA: has anyone fitted the bolts from underneath? Thoughts are the shallow hex head would allow another 3mm of clearance over nylocks and no issues with corrosion on threads.

Last edited by Richard Wood; 24/02/20 08:02 AM.

Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Roadster ground clearance [Re: Richard Wood] #618752
24/02/20 08:10 AM
24/02/20 08:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,211
Suffolk
John V6 Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
John V6  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,211
Suffolk
Richard,
I have never seen that. wouldn't you be worried that if the nut comes loose the bolt will fall out?


JohnV6
2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1
Re: Roadster ground clearance [Re: John V6] #618753
24/02/20 08:29 AM
24/02/20 08:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,390
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline OP
Talk Morgan Expert
Richard Wood  Offline OP
Talk Morgan Expert

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,390
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Originally Posted by John V6
Richard,
I have never seen that. wouldn't you be worried that if the nut comes loose the bolt will fall out?


Not really John as I would use nylock nuts. Not sure what if any clearance is required on seat runners though - do the bolt heads form the runner stops?

The factory use spring washers and plain nuts BTW, and I found they were little more than finger tight!

May take the opportunity to remove seats completely and thoroughly grease runners as mine are very stiff. A job you cannot thoroughly do in situ. Might find a few coins under them as well - especially pleasing to a Yorkshireman innocent


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Roadster ground clearance [Re: Richard Wood] #618754
24/02/20 08:40 AM
24/02/20 08:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,695
Solihull
Spanner Juggler Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
Spanner Juggler  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,695
Solihull
Every tight runner I have been asked to look at has been caused by over tightened nuts and bolts leading to the runner frame bowing. I soon learnt when someone complained to first loosen the nuts and see if the seat runners freed up and without exception they always did. My ‘fix’ after this was to use nyloc nuts, nip them up plus half a turn only. Never heard of one coming loose but if your worried it’s easy to drill and split pin the bolt just past the nyloc.

BR
Colin (PS I don’t know but suspect the nyloc would foul the seat mechanism if the bolts were put in from underneath and as someone else said not normal engineering practice)


BR Colin
Who used to be a Spanner Juggler
Re: Roadster ground clearance [Re: Richard Wood] #618757
24/02/20 08:54 AM
24/02/20 08:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 403
North Somerset, UK
D
Deejay Offline
Learner Plates Off!
Deejay  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
D

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 403
North Somerset, UK
There is a bolt on the underside of the seat runners which acts as a fulcrum and prevents runner frame from sitting flat against the floor. I drilled a slight indentation into the floor, which allows the offending bolt to sit in it and then the through bolts can be tightened properly.
BTW, regarding tensile strength discussions, If ever there was a sufficient loading on the bolts, I reckon they would pull through the wood before any risk of shearing!


Doug

2011 +4 in Rich Maroon
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