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Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: teknome] #633453
28/04/20 07:36 AM
28/04/20 07:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,782
London
MOG 615 Offline
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London
Originally Posted by teknome
Forgot to add, there is an ignition amplifier, screwed onto the bracket that holds the ignition coil, they do get warm, the amplifier uses the bracket as a heat sink, haven't had one fail, but have heard of failures. If fitting a new one there should be some heat conductive grease supplied.


I have had an ignition module fail, BUT when it did the engine would not fire at all , so I don't think it fits these symptoms.

I suspect a poor wiring connection somewhere in the loom, but finding it can be very tricky and time consuming.

I don't think that generic code readers work with the Rover V8 engine (until the introduction of the GEMS system?) as it needed the Rovercom to interrogate the ecu, but my knowledge here is somewhat scant.

I have also had an air mass sensor (technically the air mass sensor measure the mass of air going through it , rather than the volume which is measured by an air flow sensor, but both fulfil the same role) fail, and it gave poor running conditions (so not the same symptoms again) , but would let the engine start. The only way I know to check this is to replace the unit with one that is known to be in good working order.

Good luck


Andy G
1999 +8 , Indigo Blue.
Ex-John McKecknie/Mike Duncan 1955 +4 racer.
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #633472
28/04/20 08:37 AM
28/04/20 08:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 937
Luxembourg
I
Ivo Offline OP
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Ivo  Offline OP
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Bad news… this morning, with a cold engine and the battery fully charged, no start.
Next seps, checking the items you guys pointed me to. Thanks again thumbs


sunny
1998 +8
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #633583
28/04/20 04:09 PM
28/04/20 04:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 935
Evergreen, Colorado, USA
britmog Offline
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Evergreen, Colorado, USA
I know you say the starter motor is turning, is there a spark at the plugs?


Bruce
1964 4/4 Series V Comp (Megan)
1994 +8 (Maurice)
2013 M3W (Olga)
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: britmog] #633621
28/04/20 06:25 PM
28/04/20 06:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 937
Luxembourg
I
Ivo Offline OP
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Ivo  Offline OP
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Luxembourg
Originally Posted by britmog
I know you say the starter motor is turning, is there a spark at the plugs?


I checked this point, this afternoon. Not at the plug, but at the lead, that connects the coil with the distributor cap, which I held against the ground.

Now, something funny happened. The first moment, there was a spark that stopped half a second later, while the starting was still in process. Tried that about ten times, holding the lead against different engine and body parts, to ensure, that I have a good ground. I also tried different gaps, to see how strong the spark was. It worked, up to a distance of about two Centimetres. The spark colour was orange-ish. Is that OK? I don‘t remember the correct colour anymore.

Could that be the symptom of a faulty coil? (the installed one does not look THAT new, as I thought yesterday) Or a faulty ignition?
I just lifted the distribution cap, as there is very little space because of the water hoses around. I did not see any breaker points, just a kind of „cover“. I also suppose, there is an electronic ignition. I may mark and remove all leads, to be able to completely remove the cap and have a closer look.

I also found the connector that connects the Morgan and the Land Rover harnesses, inside the cabin, but was unable to disconnect it, so I better stopped.

The problem appeared progressively, over a period of about two or three weeks. Could that indicate a component that slowly brakes down? What irritates me, that, when it ran, the engine ran so smoothly. Up to the last moment.


sunny
1998 +8
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #633623
28/04/20 06:51 PM
28/04/20 06:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19,062
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
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South Yorkshire
Ivo...….you might try asking Keith at Brands Hatch Morgan, if you can get hold of him, not sure if they are open just now.


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) AR Plus 4
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #633625
28/04/20 07:16 PM
28/04/20 07:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,168
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
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Posts: 26,168
Devonshire

Ivo Keith is answering technical queries on the normal email address - BHM they adopted this method to help customers once lockdown appeared.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1994 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #633630
28/04/20 07:38 PM
28/04/20 07:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 8
M
M119 Offline
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Posts: 8
Couple of quick points, earth's have been mentioned. The main one on the chassis by the battery take this off be clean it. This will cause all manner of strange problems. You had spark but is the fuel pump running? Turn ignition on it should buzz for a few seconds before you crank it over. But if these are ok, amplifier is likely cause , breaking down gradually. I have seen a few over the years.

Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #633631
28/04/20 07:41 PM
28/04/20 07:41 PM
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Posts: 937
Luxembourg
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Ivo Offline OP
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Posts: 937
Luxembourg
Thanks, Dave and Richard thumbs

I just made an other test: Connecting a test light to the positive and negative pole of the ignition coil. When doing that and turning the engine, the light must constantly fluctuate. But it does not. Is flashes once and stays dark afterwards. (Analog to the „spark test“, mentioned in my previous post.)

So, i suppose, it‘s the ignition and I hope, that it‘s only the parts inside the distributor and not the ECU.

A question, aside of my starting problem… on my (hotwire) car, are the ignition and injection systems independent, or does the ECU control both?


sunny
1998 +8
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: M119] #633634
28/04/20 07:52 PM
28/04/20 07:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 937
Luxembourg
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Ivo Offline OP
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Ivo  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 937
Luxembourg
Originally Posted by M119
Couple of quick points, earth's have been mentioned. The main one on the chassis by the battery take this off be clean it. This will cause all manner of strange problems. You had spark but is the fuel pump running? Turn ignition on it should buzz for a few seconds before you crank it over. But if these are ok, amplifier is likely cause , breaking down gradually. I have seen a few over the years.



The fuel pump is running. But I had only one spark, per starting attempt. To my understanding and if I remember well, the spark must be continuous, as long as the engine turns.


sunny
1998 +8
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #633677
29/04/20 05:45 AM
29/04/20 05:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 760
Antwerpen Belgium
stefan s Offline
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 760
Antwerpen Belgium
How long is the fuell in your fuelltank ? It happened that we had to remove fuell. (Fuell longer than 1 month in the car )

Stefan

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