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Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #633866
29/04/20 10:12 PM
29/04/20 10:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,185
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
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+8Rich  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,185
Devonshire
This was an almost hairline black track which was probably due to a manufacturing fault that finally broke down under electrical load, I'm not talking about a build up of carbon in the normal way. It took me half a day to find it was a PIA.

I know it's a pain to get the cap off as I replaced mine with the rotor arm and leads shortly after I got my Plus 8.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1994 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #633888
30/04/20 06:34 AM
30/04/20 06:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,683
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
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Heinz  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,683
Köln Germany
Ivo, I do not want to add confusion. The text below is only mentioned so you know want I meant.

One of the most typical problems on vehicles with KE-Jetronic is a bad 'warm start' behaviour. This manifests itself in the fact that a warm engine can only be started by repeated organising. With many vehicles one must even speak of a bad 'restart behaviour'. After a first run of a few seconds, the vehicle can only be started a second time by organizing.

The problem is usually caused by defective components in the fuel delivery system. The fuel pump delivers the fuel to a pressure accumulator and from there to the flow divider. If the pump is switched off, the pressure should be maintained at just under 3 bar in the system. On the fuel delivery side, this is achieved by a non-return valve at the pump outlet and the pressure accumulator, whose piston maintains the pressure in the system via a pre-tensioned spring.


Here you can have a look at „fuel accumulator“ in the text below. But the Injection system of your Plus 8 works obviously in another way. It was just a thought because with K Jetronic cars this part is the „famous“ culprit.

http://howcarpartswork.blogspot.com/2016/04/k-jetronic-fuel-injection-system.html?m=1


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #634002
30/04/20 02:53 PM
30/04/20 02:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 938
Evergreen, Colorado, USA
britmog Offline
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britmog  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 938
Evergreen, Colorado, USA
Originally Posted by Ivo
Thank you, Bruce thumbs

Tomorrow, I will test the constant voltage on the coil.

Not having a spark tester, I did not test the coil as showed in the video. But I measured the coil resistance, following the GoMog procedure (page 6) and it looks good. (I think)
All high voltage leads have been replaced two month ago.

I think, the problem lies within the distributor.


Make sure the high voltage leads have a tight connection in the sockets, it has happened (to me on my 94 +8) that the high tension cable was a loose fit and gave intermittent connection and faulty ignition.


Bruce
1964 4/4 Series V Comp (Megan)
1994 +8 (Maurice)
2013 M3W (Olga)
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: britmog] #634618
02/05/20 10:50 PM
02/05/20 10:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 937
Luxembourg
I
Ivo Offline OP
TM Photographer of 2011
Ivo  Offline OP
TM Photographer of 2011
Talk Morgan Regular
I

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 937
Luxembourg
Hello, my friends,

Thanks again, for all your help. I now checked everything, I was able to and found nothing obvious. Also asked my garage, if I could borrow some parts from them, in order to do more troubleshooting, or even a repair by myself. Well… no, they don‘t do that, which I kind of understand.

On Friday my car will be brought to the shop and I‘m confident, that I get it back very soon, in a perfectly working condition.

Luckily, the weather was bad the whole last week… winky

Sunny greetings from Luxembourg sunny
Ivo


sunny
1998 +8
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #634630
03/05/20 02:00 AM
03/05/20 02:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,683
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
Charter Member
Heinz  Offline
Charter Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,683
Köln Germany
I wish you the best results, Ivo! At least your greetings are sunny smile


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #634697
03/05/20 12:04 PM
03/05/20 12:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,733
Suffolk
John V6 Offline
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John V6  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,733
Suffolk
Yes good luck.


JohnV6
2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #635690
06/05/20 11:19 PM
06/05/20 11:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 937
Luxembourg
I
Ivo Offline OP
TM Photographer of 2011
Ivo  Offline OP
TM Photographer of 2011
Talk Morgan Regular
I

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 937
Luxembourg
I should be happy, but somehow, I‘m not…

Not having touched my car since four days, I tried to start it today and guess what happened… two revs and it was running like new. Unfortunately, I had no time to drive it, to see whether the starting problem reappears, with a warm engine compartment

In any case, I‘ll bring it to the garage for troubleshooting and repair. But what, if the problem does not show again… if they don‘t find anything… I suppose it would be wise, to let them change some components, wouldn‘t it. But which one? The coil, the ignition amplifier, the components „inside“ the distributor? Or all of them?

What do you think?


sunny
1998 +8
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #635793
07/05/20 02:26 PM
07/05/20 02:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 938
Evergreen, Colorado, USA
britmog Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
britmog  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 938
Evergreen, Colorado, USA
The first thing they should do is read the ECU for any fault code stored that will hopefully give an indicator. Then with their equipment they should be able to check the circuits and various components, before starting to replace anything.


Bruce
1964 4/4 Series V Comp (Megan)
1994 +8 (Maurice)
2013 M3W (Olga)
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #635894
07/05/20 09:36 PM
07/05/20 09:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 235
Sandhurst, Berks
T
teknome Offline
L - Learner Plates On
teknome  Offline
L - Learner Plates On
T

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 235
Sandhurst, Berks
The fault codes reported by the 14CUX are fairly limited - most of them will relate to poor running rather then non starting. Although a fault code 29 would probably cause a failure to start. Note that if you have a red key, and turn it to 'off' it will lose any stored codes from memory, so best to leave the red key 'on' until you read the codes. If you want a code reader ithe most cost effective solution is Rovergauge software and a usb/serial cable for your PC, http://www.remap-14cux.uk/gadgets.html Note that the serial protocol is a bit unusual so you can't use a normal RS232 type adapter. Also you do need a plug to fit into the code reader socket. To buy a cable ready made search for 'Range Rover Classic, TVR, Morgan, Lucas 14CUX "hotwire" diagnostic cable kit.' on ebay

FAULT CODE FAULT DESCRIPTION
12 mass airflow sensor
14 engine coolant temp sender
15 engine fuel temp sensor
17 Throttle position sensor. Sensors are checked with a
standard ultimeter: they are variable resistors
18 high throttle positition vs. low mass airflow readings
19  low throttle position reading vs. a high mass airflow readout
21 tune select resistor fault
23 fuel supply fault
28 engine air leak
29 ECM memory fault (if code 29 is showing any other codes are unreliable and must be ignored).
34  left bank injector fault
36  right bank injector fault
40   left bank misfire
44  left bank headed O2 sensor fault
 45   right bank heated O2 sensor fault
 48   idle air control valve fault
 50 right bank misfire
 59  combine codes 23 and 28
 68 speed signal imput fault
 69 neutral safety switch fault 
 88 canister purge valve leak


---------------------------
Mike Smith


1995 +8
2007 +4
Re: 3.9 +8 starting problems [Re: Ivo] #635947
08/05/20 10:09 AM
08/05/20 10:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 937
Luxembourg
I
Ivo Offline OP
TM Photographer of 2011
Ivo  Offline OP
TM Photographer of 2011
Talk Morgan Regular
I

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 937
Luxembourg
Bruce, Mike, thanks for your advise. 👍

Today, I wanted to drive the engine warm, but, again, it did not start, so, in one way, I‘m glad, that the problem still persists.

There was also a mechanic from the Automobile Club who confirmed my finding with the single spark and called the transporter who will bring my car to the garage.

Sunny greetings,
Ivo


sunny
1998 +8
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