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Re: Covid-19 [Re: TBM] #637453
14/05/20 02:02 PM
14/05/20 02:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 744
R
Rovert Offline
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Rovert  Offline
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Posts: 744
Originally Posted by TBM
Originally Posted by Clipper
Whatever works!

Point is, the decisions and power have been with a conservative government for a long time and that’s how it will stay well into the future.

Keep our right leaning brains under pressure though!


Exactly, socialism works, especially when things get tough and capitalism fails (evident by all the big companies begging for a government/taxpayers handout)

According to my right leaning friends, Boris is one of the more centrist conversatives. Personally, I think he's an asshole, but it will be interesting to see where he takes the conservative party over the next few years.


Left or Right In a situation where so far 249,000 people have lost their lives it seems a shame to use the situation to leverage ones own flavour of politics.


Brian

Jersey and Spain
Re: Covid-19 [Re: Rovert] #637455
14/05/20 02:14 PM
14/05/20 02:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 3,524
Northants, UK
TBM Offline
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 3,524
Northants, UK
Originally Posted by Rovert
Left or Right In a situation where so far 249,000 people have lost their lives it seems a shame to use the situation to leverage ones own flavour of politics.


As a contrarian, I disagree completely smile smile smile


1972 4/4 4 seater - 3G Morganeer
Too many ratty motorbikes
Re: Covid-19 [Re: Rovert] #637456
14/05/20 02:18 PM
14/05/20 02:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,074
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Scruffy Oik
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Posts: 10,074
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by Rovert

Left or Right In a situation where so far 249,000 people have lost their lives it seems a shame to use the situation to leverage ones own flavour of politics.


Where does legitimate scrutiny end and political leverage start?

Does that mean you feel the Government should not be exposed to question and criticism by the Labour Party regarding their handling of the crisis? And if not by Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, then presumably by nobody?

How about the media? Would for example the refusal of the government to be interviewed by Piers Morgan on Good Morning Britain represent leveraging their own flavour of politics, or a result of Piers Morgan leveraging his own?


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
Re: Covid-19 [Re: Hamwich] #637458
14/05/20 02:26 PM
14/05/20 02:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 744
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Rovert Offline
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Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by Rovert

Left or Right In a situation where so far 249,000 people have lost their lives it seems a shame to use the situation to leverage ones own flavour of politics.



Does that mean you feel the Government should not be exposed to question and criticism by the Labour Party regarding their handling of the crisis? And if not by Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, then presumably by nobody?



Not too sure how you get from "it seems a shame to use the situation to leverage ones own flavour of politics." to "Does that mean you feel the Government should not be exposed to question and criticism by the Labour Party regarding their handling of the crisis"

But In this situation it is not something I'm prepared to debate.

(Oh and Ball and Player again Tim)


Brian

Jersey and Spain
Re: Covid-19 [Re: Gambalunga] #637459
14/05/20 02:42 PM
14/05/20 02:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,333
Luton, Bedfordshire
Fox Terrier Offline
Has a lot to Say!
Fox Terrier  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,333
Luton, Bedfordshire
Ok. Let's hypothetically take domestic politics out of the equation. The Uk"s response to the virus has been woeful. Just imagine if the building nest door to you was on fire and in danger of burning down. Would you sit idly by and hope that it wouldn't spread to your building? Would you maybe get a garden hose and just in case a few sparks fell your way? Would you have a plan to deal with and mitigate the risks from a fire spreading to your building (or perhaps starting in your building)? Would you have kept that plan updated and made sure that the firefighting equipment that you might need was kept in good order and that any water supply you needed was adequate and properly maintained? Once it was clear that the building was alight and in danger of spreading to you building would you take expert advice on what measures to take next?

I watched a rather revealing documentary last night on how South Korea has been dealing with the epidemic and it was frankly embarrassing for the UK. And I'm sure there are those who will trot out the nationalist stereotypes about Koreans being more deferential to authority - watch the documentary on catch-up if you can. We have deep problems in our society that makes us extremely vulnerable to disasters like this. And that is where the politics starts.


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Re: Covid-19 [Re: Fox Terrier] #637462
14/05/20 02:54 PM
14/05/20 02:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 3,524
Northants, UK
TBM Offline
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Northants, UK
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier
We have deep problems in our society that makes us extremely vulnerable to disasters like this. And that is where the politics starts.


Exactly. And if we can't engage, question and critique policies, politics and ideologies now, then when can we?


1972 4/4 4 seater - 3G Morganeer
Too many ratty motorbikes
Re: Covid-19 [Re: Gambalunga] #637464
14/05/20 02:58 PM
14/05/20 02:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,949
South Yorks
Clipper Offline
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South Yorks
Not seen the Korean programme but a radio programme some weeks ago suggested that because of previous Covid type (Birdflu) outbreaks in that part of the world, they and possibly other far eastern countries were geared up and ready with plans to implement the immediate actions necessary when the next one emerges.

Suppose in hindsight, this pandemic was predictable and probably inevitable and governments in the rest of the world should have been much better prepared.

Look at how much countries spend on defence.


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Re: Covid-19 [Re: rainbowj] #637469
14/05/20 03:04 PM
14/05/20 03:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 743
Manitoba, Canada
BertL Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 743
Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted by rainbowj
Ah thoughtful. Peter stated that China came to the aid of Italy with the delivery of PPE. If I hit you on the nose then gave you a handkerchief to mop the blood up would you forgive me for hitting you on the nose. The Chinese government showed Italians applauding the Chinese deliveries from their balconies. They were not they were applauding for quite different reasons. This is the type of propaganda that the west is up against. As some one else posted China is buying up farms, mines water resources etc all over the world. They have a long lease on the port of Athens for instance that will fit in nicely with there belt road. As for Chinese takeaway and other off the cuff tongue in cheek remarks we British have always had black humour. Perhaps Austrians are too straight laced. If we are not vigilant we will all be subject to Chinese hegemony.

clap


Bert & B1800
"Tis well enough to know how much to know; and when to know, not to know, too much."
Re: Covid-19 [Re: Clipper] #637479
14/05/20 03:30 PM
14/05/20 03:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,947
Kent & Dorset, UK
twotribes Offline
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twotribes  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,947
Kent & Dorset, UK
Originally Posted by Clipper
Whatever works!

Point is, the decisions and power have been with a conservative government for a long time and that’s how it will stay well into the future.

Keep our right leaning brains under pressure though!


David - yes, there has been a conservative-led UK Govt for a long time, but I'm not convinced like you it will stay that way well into the future.

Yes, there is utter lunacy at the extreme left of the Labour party as you state in an earlier post - but a key tenet that unites all of Labour is a belief that essential services that benefit and unite the whole of society (health, social care, education, basic utilities, transportation infrastructure etc) should be owned, controlled and regulated by society as a whole.

So when the Covid crisis leads the electorate to conclude that society should maybe take back control of some of these things, is it more likely that Boris Johnson can shift the Tory Party towards a social infrastructure agenda, or that Kier Starmer can get rid of the looney element in his party?

I wouldn't bet on Boris (and I don't dislike him). I think the path out of Covid and the changes it will ask of society will wrong-foot a lot of politicians...

(Ps - I ask my question as a neutral - there is not a UK political party which reflects my views)

Last edited by twotribes; 14/05/20 03:33 PM.

Stuart
"There's no skill substitute like cubic inches."
Re: Covid-19 [Re: TBM] #637489
14/05/20 04:04 PM
14/05/20 04:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,074
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Scruffy Oik
Hamwich  Offline
Scruffy Oik
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,074
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by TBM
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier
We have deep problems in our society that makes us extremely vulnerable to disasters like this. And that is where the politics starts.


Exactly. And if we can't engage, question and critique policies, politics and ideologies now, then when can we?




That was why I asked the question of Brian. It appears at the moment that any critique of the government's handling of the crisis is deflected by claims that 'this is no time for politics'. We now have a situation where the government is refusing to participate with anyone that might scrutinise them (eg Piers Morgan on GMB), and where they are unable to do so in Prime Minister's Questions (where Keir Starmer is proving to be a very effective scrutineer), they are seeking to discredit him by circulating doctored videos of Starmer making it seem as if he was defending the failure of the Rochdale debacle. I note that the 3 main Tory MPS involved (Nadine Dorries, Lucy Allan, and Maria Caulfield) have now deleted their tweets, but no apology has been forthcoming as yet.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
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