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Another Plus Six bites the dust! #647590
30/06/20 01:24 PM
30/06/20 01:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 320
West Dorset
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rid967 Offline OP
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West Dorset
https://www.facebook.com/129421993806418/posts/3105986486149939/

How many does that make?
Sad to see another one in the breaker’s yard!


3.7 Roadster
Porsche 964 C2
JCW Mini Cooper S Cab
BMW F750GS
+4 4 1995-2002 / LM 62 +8 2002-07
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647592
30/06/20 01:36 PM
30/06/20 01:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 505
Salem, Llandeilo
S
Scrambledsignals Offline
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Salem, Llandeilo
Looks like it's shunted something head on. The others I have seen looked like they have suffered from too much right foot and gone in sideways.

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647599
30/06/20 02:01 PM
30/06/20 02:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 190
Stourbridge UK
Morph Offline
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Stourbridge UK
I think it looks like it has been in a minor pile up as front and back wings are creased

[Linked Image]


No Morgan yet...
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647600
30/06/20 02:01 PM
30/06/20 02:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,914
Suffolk, England
John V6 Offline
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Ouch. I wonder if it is repairable?


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647601
30/06/20 02:03 PM
30/06/20 02:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 6,100
East Harling, Norfolk UK
RichardV6 Offline
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East Harling, Norfolk UK
Front lights, rears lights and all four wings - pretty comprehensive write off scared

The n/s front wing seems to have crumpled in a dramatic but energy absorbing manner. Wonder how the chassis fared.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - Morton
1966 Land Rover S2a 88 - Lenny
1945 Moto Guzzi Airone
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647603
30/06/20 02:08 PM
30/06/20 02:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 190
Stourbridge UK
Morph Offline
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Stourbridge UK
It would need a new chassis as its been written off, that's why its being sold as parts.


No Morgan yet...
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647607
30/06/20 02:18 PM
30/06/20 02:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 3,318
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Luddite Offline
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I suspect like so many modern cars the CX Morgans unlike their forebears become uneconomical to repair after an accident due to the level of sophistication in their design and build, I have known of some modern machinery being "written off" as the result of relatively simple issues which is very unlike the repairability that existed in older cars..

In the case of Trad Morgans which were where infinitely repairable by someone with a reasonable skill-set and in their home garage, some such are still in progress today....(-: No special jigs disassembly or reassembly processes required..

Though from that which I have observed, Morgan owners (myself included) may have evolved to become less interested in getting involved with their machinery than they were perhaps 20 or more years ago, so the trads may also die out in a way that was never expected before..hmm..?

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647608
30/06/20 02:20 PM
30/06/20 02:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 190
Stourbridge UK
Morph Offline
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Morph  Offline
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Posts: 190
Stourbridge UK
What is the dashboard finish? It looks like silver painted MDF!

[Linked Image]


No Morgan yet...
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Luddite] #647609
30/06/20 02:21 PM
30/06/20 02:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,589
Costock, South Nottinghamshire...
Paul F Offline
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Costock, South Nottinghamshire...
Originally Posted by Luddite


Though from that which I have observed, Morgan owners (myself included) may have evolved to become less interested in getting involved with their machinery than they were perhaps 20 or more years ago, so the trads may also die out in a way that was never expected before..hmm..?


Interesting observation. I hope you are wrong but, sad to say, I rather suspect that you may be correct in this prediction.


Paul
Costock, UK
2014 4/4 Rolls Royce Garnet Red
Disco 5
Teddy - 17h1 Irish Draught cross
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Paul F] #647613
30/06/20 02:39 PM
30/06/20 02:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 893
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Rovert Offline
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Originally Posted by Paul F
Originally Posted by Luddite


Though from that which I have observed, Morgan owners (myself included) may have evolved to become less interested in getting involved with their machinery than they were perhaps 20 or more years ago, so the trads may also die out in a way that was never expected before..hmm..?


Interesting observation. I hope you are wrong but, sad to say, I rather suspect that you may be correct in this prediction.


Not helped by the insurance companies various "Cat x" which even if they allow a repair, comprehensively trashes the resale value.


Brian

Jersey and Spain
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647624
30/06/20 03:29 PM
30/06/20 03:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,152
Aberdeenshire
Gordon D Offline
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Aberdeenshire
Looks a lot like the factory press car to me, check out the rear registration plate.


Gordon Duguid
2014 Duratec engine plus 4, Montreal blue.
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647627
30/06/20 03:35 PM
30/06/20 03:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,896
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aerotaff Offline
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The wing with the small dent is already stripped and up for sale on e bay.

Em

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647630
30/06/20 03:50 PM
30/06/20 03:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 621
Suffolk Uk.
Hawki Offline
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Suffolk Uk.
Might be able to save some serious money on options if your buying a plus 6

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647642
30/06/20 04:43 PM
30/06/20 04:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 32,426
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
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Devonshire
Perhaps it's just me but I hate seeing any Morgan munched in this way - it's painful.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647649
30/06/20 05:13 PM
30/06/20 05:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,625
Taunton
deano Offline
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Taunton
A very sad end and a sign of the times were these modern versions cannot be ecconomically rebuilt. I remember the days when morgans were never scrapped. They could always be repaired.


Martin (Deano)
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647652
30/06/20 05:25 PM
30/06/20 05:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,543
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
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According to information from a number of sources, more than 20 of the PlusSix models have been written off.

In almost every case it is unexpected power delivery caused by an insensitive right foot amplifying miscommunication between engine and gearbox management systems that causes a sudden exchange of ends and an unexpected journey.
In this case it looks as if a lamp post or similar hit the car.
The car has to be driven with great care and sensitivity, as does every super-car. They can all bite the inexperienced.

And yes, the dash is mdf, either painted body colour or veneered.


Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Peter J] #647653
30/06/20 05:29 PM
30/06/20 05:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 32,426
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
Tricky Dicky
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Devonshire
Blimey that is a lot, I wouldn't fancy phoning up for an insurance quote for one of those with it's reputation preceding it.

On the cynical/good news side it keeps the MMC busy building.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647656
30/06/20 05:38 PM
30/06/20 05:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,241
Devon
Budster Offline
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Devon
Really sad to see another wrecked Plus Six.
I can only imagine that level of power in a Morgan.
It is a problem that I don’t encounter with my 4/4.
innocent

What I find more worrying is the inability for them to be economically repaired, once the chassis tub is damaged.
However, I imagine that a number of modern cars would have a similar issue?

Bud
4/4 - Stanley


Bud
4/4 "Stanley"
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Peter J] #647664
30/06/20 05:57 PM
30/06/20 05:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,710
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
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Köln Germany
Originally Posted by Peter J
And yes, the dash is mdf, either painted body colour or veneered.


Im am happy that my dash is still made of multiplex.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647670
30/06/20 06:21 PM
30/06/20 06:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,015
People's Republic of South Yor...
CooperMan Offline
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I expect insurance premiums to be quite adversely affected by this, the Plus6 is becoming very expensive for insurers with all the relatively minor bumps becoming full write offs leading to £80k +++ payouts each time, & the list of preferred Mog insurers is pretty small

Caveat emptor !


Jon M
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647685
30/06/20 06:59 PM
30/06/20 06:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,914
Suffolk, England
John V6 Offline
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Well interestingly I asked Headley what the cost increase would be for a new plus four or a BMW +8.
They would insure the plus four but not the +8.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647688
30/06/20 07:01 PM
30/06/20 07:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 621
Suffolk Uk.
Hawki Offline
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Suffolk Uk.
Peter that’s a huge number of plus 6 written off considering the low volumes and short time they have been on the road. T must be a real worry for Morgan, this could seriously impact their image at a time when they are trying to enter new markets.

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647697
30/06/20 07:29 PM
30/06/20 07:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,273
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
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Hampshire
Thats surprising John. My premiums on the Aero have been surprisingly modest over the years.


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647701
30/06/20 07:34 PM
30/06/20 07:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,914
Suffolk, England
John V6 Offline
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Yep I found odd but when I bought the Roadster Peter Best whom I had used for years wanted £750. Headley was £250.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Peter J] #647705
30/06/20 08:16 PM
30/06/20 08:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6,578
Australia - NSW North Coast
OZ 4/4 Offline
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Australia - NSW North Coast
Originally Posted by Peter J
According to information from a number of sources, more than 20 of the PlusSix models have been written off.

In almost every case it is unexpected power delivery caused by an insensitive right foot amplifying miscommunication between engine and gearbox management systems that causes a sudden exchange of ends and an unexpected journey.
In this case it looks as if a lamp post or similar hit the car.
The car has to be driven with great care and sensitivity, as does every super-car. They can all bite the inexperienced.

And yes, the dash is mdf, either painted body colour or veneered.

Such a shame....


A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647707
30/06/20 08:26 PM
30/06/20 08:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 909
Aerdenhout, The Netherlands
BertR Offline
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Aerdenhout, The Netherlands
So how many +6s have been produced, so we can estimate the % of write offs?
Is the 20 world wide or UK number?
Can we conclude the +6 should come wt driver training?


2009 Roadster, Lancia midnight blue, cinnamon upholstery.
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647723
30/06/20 09:34 PM
30/06/20 09:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,119
Mandello del Lario
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Mandello del Lario
It is a car that would be out of the question for me. I have nerve damage as the result of a serious accident in 1995 and it affects the fine movement control of my right foot. So much power on a light car with not driver aids would be a deadly combination for me. I would even be worried about driving a new PlusFour. Probably best for me to stick with a conventionally aspirated engine that has predictable and linear power delivery.. A 1.5 litre 3 cylinder version may be better but even so the turbo boost effect which tends to come on suddenly may still be a problem.


Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647748
01/07/20 01:08 AM
01/07/20 01:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,188
Wales
T
Taffmog Offline
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Wales
Headley quoted me £2,600 just for the 4.8 plus 8 a few weeks ago. Renewal this year with Gott and Wynn was less than 1k for five Morgans and over £100 less than last year!


1969 4/4
1995 plus 8
2002 Aero S1
2013 M3W
2014 Plus 8
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Peter J] #647761
01/07/20 07:04 AM
01/07/20 07:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 46
M
Moogie Offline
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Originally Posted by Peter J
According to information from a number of sources, more than 20 of the PlusSix models have been written off.

In almost every case it is unexpected power delivery caused by an insensitive right foot amplifying miscommunication between engine and gearbox management systems that causes a sudden exchange of ends and an unexpected journey.
In this case it looks as if a lamp post or similar hit the car.
The car has to be driven with great care and sensitivity, as does every super-car. They can all bite the inexperienced.

And yes, the dash is mdf, either painted body colour or veneered.


I totally understand this. Having owned several Jaguar R-models, Bentleys and an Aston Martin I have never been in a car that I thought had too much power - until I met the Plus Six. That is actually the main reason I went for the Plus Four, the Plus Six has sooo much power combined with unpredictable turbo lag and an automatic that, unless you drive it in manual mode, never let you feel that you are actually in control. It is probably just my skills that are inadequate, but that is to some extent the crowd that Morgan is catering to with the Plus Six. :-)

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647768
01/07/20 07:44 AM
01/07/20 07:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,710
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
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Köln Germany
Moggie, that is a very understandable and serious statement. Especially when I consider which cars you mention as ok and not too strong compared to the Plus 6.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Morph] #647776
01/07/20 08:17 AM
01/07/20 08:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,229
Petersfield, Hampshire
Ian Wegg Offline
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Petersfield, Hampshire
Originally Posted by Morph
I think it looks like it has been in a minor pile up as front and back wings are creased

[Linked Image]



Is that what car breakers look like now, wrecks on racks? I haven't been to one for some time but I well remember the fun of clambering up a stack of cars balanced one on top of another.

A fellow SogMog colleague is heading down to look at this today, He phoned yesterday and apparently there's not much left.


1980 Morgan 4/4 4-seater
1932 Austin 7 Chummy
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647778
01/07/20 08:33 AM
01/07/20 08:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 20,826
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
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South Yorkshire
If there were manual versions it would be even more interesting.

I just get the impression this is a combination of massive torque, auto box, light weight, and lack of driver aids.

When the factory test driver lost the orange demonstrator and hit the barrier, he said he wasn't pushing, the road was wet, but it just went, with no hope of recovery.


DaveW
'05 Red Roadster S1
'16 Yellow (Not the only) Narrow AR GDI Plus 4
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647780
01/07/20 08:40 AM
01/07/20 08:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 101
Cambs., UK
Almond Offline
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Cambs., UK
|Moogie, I'm not a frequent poster here but felt I had to second your comments about the Plus Six. You are spot on. The issue with driving the Plus Six is a lot more complex than just having a sensitive right foot and being careful. Having had a number of high performance cars, 911s, Cayman etc and even higher performance motorcycles I was very much looking forward to my test drive in the Plus Six. I jumped stright out of my Plus 8 Speedster and into the Six. The difference was huge with the Plus 8 being quick but always very manageable and easy to drive fast (even in the wet) whereas the Plus Six was stupendously fast but I felt without the feedback/connection and feeling of control necessary. I also believe the difficulty for the Plus Six is exactly as you say Moogie - huge torque, variable degrees of lag and dificult to predict downshifting from the AT when you apply an additional few mm more throttle. I had extensive experince of a simlar engine in my 440i with Sports pack (365hp) but I felt that the gear shifting map was much better calibrated and better matched the car (mass, rolling resistance etc.). Whilst I can understand (perhaps even accept) Morgan's lack of budget to integrate driver aids that are common place in much cheaper cars, what I really do struggle with is how Morgan don't appear to have the resource to perform the full integration of engines/transmissions from other manufacturers in their cars. Plus Six is a case in point. Roadster 3.7 anyone?


Ian

A convert to the joy of Morgans after years of motorcycles
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647795
01/07/20 10:30 AM
01/07/20 10:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,143
South Yorks
Clipper Offline
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South Yorks
Maybe they should replace the new ‘sport’ button

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


2021 Lapis Blue Plus 6 evil You know it makes sense! thinking





Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647800
01/07/20 10:56 AM
01/07/20 10:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,543
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
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Salisbury, UK
It is my understanding, after talking to a number of experienced drivers, that perversely, the car is safer in Sport and Sport Plus mode.
How is this?

Consider this situation. You have been driving along at about 60 to 65 on a single carriageway road. There is a slow car in front of you, you slow to 30 or so, waiting for an overtaking opportunity. The car thinks you are in traffic and puts you in the highest gear possible, keeping the revis at about 1500, for maximum torque and maximum fuel efficiency. You see a possibility and push down the loud pedal. There is no turbo lag, peak torque is from 1250 rpm. what seems to be turbo lag is computer lag as the engine and box work out that no you are not in traffic and want to go. So the box drops suddenly to 2nd or 3rd and with an open throttle and massive torque the car squats down on the bump stops, the suspension cannot cope and traction is broken: all power goes to one or other wheel. At that point you are a passenger as there is no traction control to help you.

Replay the same situation, but the box in in Sport +. This time when you slow the box holds a relatively low gear, because its program says "this boy is being sporty, so he may well need power soon". The engine is now at 3500+ rpm. You see the opportunity, push the loud pedal and there is no down change, the car surges forward on a wave of torque, without squatting on the rear bump stops and all is well.

The car needs better suspension, I hope someone is working on it.
The car needs to have power seriously limited when in normal Drive mode. I hope someone is working on it.

With the sort of suspension improvements SSL has brought to trads and now S4 Aeros the car would be rather nice, but always able to bite.
With a revised relationship between gearbox and engine management systems it could be fantastic.


Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647802
01/07/20 11:13 AM
01/07/20 11:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,710
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
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Köln Germany
That sounds very plausible, Peter. The leisurely strollers get caught even more fatally than the dynamic driver.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Almond] #647803
01/07/20 11:17 AM
01/07/20 11:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 320
West Dorset
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rid967 Offline OP
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West Dorset
[quote=Almond]|Moogie, I'm not a frequent poster here but felt I had to second your comments about the Plus Six. You are spot on. The issue with driving the Plus Six is a lot more complex than just having a sensitive right foot and being careful. Having had a number of high performance cars, 911s, Cayman etc and even higher performance motorcycles I was very much looking forward to my test drive in the Plus Six. I jumped stright out of my Plus 8 Speedster and into the Six. The difference was huge with the Plus 8 being quick but always very manageable and easy to drive fast (even in the wet) whereas the Plus Six was stupendously fast but I felt without the feedback/connection and feeling of control necessary. I also believe the difficulty for the Plus Six is exactly as you say Moogie - huge torque, variable degrees of lag and dificult to predict downshifting from the AT when you apply an additional few mm more throttle. I had extensive experince of a simlar engine in my 440i with Sports pack (365hp) but I felt that the gear shifting map was much better calibrated and better matched the car (mass, rolling resistance etc.). Whilst I can understand (perhaps even accept) Morgan's lack of budget to integrate driver aids that are common place in much cheaper cars, what I really do struggle with is how Morgan don't appear to have the resource to perform the full integration of engines/transmissions from other manufacturers in their cars. Plus Six is a case in point. Roadster 3.7 anyone? [quote]

I have a 3.7 Roadster with the ECU upgrade, which gives it about 300 BHP. I consider this probably too much power for the trad chassis but it keeps me entertained, so to speak. One has to be particularly careful when driving in a “sporting” manner. On the track it it a super car which, with the suspension upgrades done, handles predictively to an “experienced” driver. By “experienced” I mean someone who is used to driving a car quickly without the standard electronic aids found now on most modern cars. That is why I love owning and driving a Morgan.
I might yet be interested in one of the new CX Morgans but only the Plus Four. I think that the 2 litre is the right size and power for the Morgan and do not see what advantage the 3 litre offers as the 2 litre is plenty fast. Also, I would not be interested in an automatic gearbox as I like to be in control and want the manual connection.
I agree with all that Peter J and Moogie have said and copy hereunder what I originally posted on the Facebook ad which gave rise to this thread, as it seems to be hidden, and concurs with a lot that is being said and expressed here.
My fear is that the Plus Six May be giving all Morgans a bad reputation and insurance companies might start charging us all more in premiums as a result. The first Porsche 911 Turbo soon acquired the nickname of the “widow maker” after it was making headlines for getting wrapped around trees with fatal results. I sincerely hope that the Plus Six doesn’t follow suit.
Copy of what I posted on the Facebook ad -
Richard Lomax
“ David Tuckey It’s the new Morgan Plus 6, no longer built with a ladder frame chassis (as all previous “traditional” Morgans) which if it had, could be fixed. These new cars have an aluminium monocoque chassis which, when in a shunt, will buckle and be rendered an insurance write off being too expensive and probably incapable of being fixed. Hence why the car is in a breaker’s yard for parts. If you look at the photographs you will see that it has been in an accident; no flood damage there.
This is one of a few Plus Sixes which have ended up being wrapped around something, such as a tree, as they have incredible performance with none of the traction control aids etc (apart from ABS brakes) which drivers have become used to and which stop them from crashing their Audi, Porsche or Ferrari, mainly, as it still does happen. However, the Morgan requires a great deal of skill to drive quickly and keep it from an unfortunate ending. This car will not be the last to meet the same fate as the people who are buying these cars have, largely, only ever driven more sophisticated cars such as those mentioned above and which have saved them from embarrassing moments, without them ever being aware.
Sad to see though.“

Last edited by rid967; 01/07/20 11:19 AM.

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Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647809
01/07/20 11:59 AM
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Interesting but rather sad thread. I drive a 1.6 4/4 Sport with a third of the power of a Plus 6. The 4/4 is fun to drive with plenty of driver involvement. Its not perfect and I can upgrade the cars handling and performance if I wish but I would also be happy with the car as it is.

I haven't driven a Plus 6, I don't aspire to own one, and if I did I would probably use a fraction of the cars performance.

So for me there would no point owning one, and it wouldn't be fun to drive one either. Especially as the Plus 6 is 13" wider than a 4/4 and I like to drive on rural roads.

I agree that some driver training should be part of new owner package. I suppose I would say that as I work in driver training. I am not easily scared though and would hate to be a salesman sitting in with customers on test drives in the Plus 6!


Rob

4/4 Sport Grey

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647813
01/07/20 12:19 PM
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Strikes me that the plus six has a mismatch in auto engine gearbox for the weight of the car. Also I suspect that the tyres are also of the wrong compound for the cars weight. ( those who have driven the 4/4 with original continentals will know)
Having driven a 450bhp cobra replica, perfectly drivable in the dry. Almost impossible in the wet, due the tyres.


4/4 Ivory 4.1:1 axle, Jaguar XE R-Sport.
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Budster] #647819
01/07/20 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Budster


What I find more worrying is the inability for them to be economically repaired, once the chassis tub is damaged.
However, I imagine that a number of modern cars would have a similar issue?

Bud
4/4 - Stanley


As my JLR engineer son observed when he had a good look at the 'CX' platform,, there is NO deformable 'crash structure' up front. So any frontal biased impact is transferred to the chassis... deformation etc.

NO idea WHY it was designed like this... Lotus have used a deformable crash structure on the front area of the Elise 'tub' since it's inception in 1996... and the newer Evora launched in 2010 also has one... additionally the chassis is made up of 3 segments that can be separated and replaced to repair crash damage, mitigating the 'write off' scenario.

I am sure the insurance industry will begin to see this and I fear all CX platform cars will have elevated insurance premiums as a result...


Dark Red 4/4 80th Anniversary
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647825
01/07/20 01:09 PM
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I'm on my 5th Mog, I've driven a Plus6 for about an hour on test, just didn't bond with it and decided to stick with my Roadster


Jon M
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: pete757] #647839
01/07/20 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by pete757
Originally Posted by Budster


What I find more worrying is the inability for them to be economically repaired, once the chassis tub is damaged.
However, I imagine that a number of modern cars would have a similar issue?

Bud
4/4 - Stanley


As my JLR engineer son observed when he had a good look at the 'CX' platform,, there is NO deformable 'crash structure' up front. So any frontal biased impact is transferred to the chassis... deformation etc.

NO idea WHY it was designed like this... Lotus have used a deformable crash structure on the front area of the Elise 'tub' since it's inception in 1996... and the newer Evora launched in 2010 also has one... additionally the chassis is made up of 3 segments that can be separated and replaced to repair crash damage, mitigating the 'write off' scenario.

I am sure the insurance industry will begin to see this and I fear all CX platform cars will have elevated insurance premiums as a result...


Not too sure about that statement Pete?

All new cars will have been "crashed tested" extensively....the very last thing you want is transferable energy into the cabin?

The damaged ones I have seen, seem to have "crush cells"?


Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 gone!

Mark
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647844
01/07/20 02:21 PM
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A mate once had a Corvette with a sticker in the rear window which read:

“Speed kills, live longer, buy a Porsche”

Wondering if these might soon be available on the options list of the Plus Six?

hide


Paul
Costock, UK
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Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Peter J] #647861
01/07/20 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter J

The car needs better suspension, I hope someone is working on it.

AFAIK yours and my pal in South Gloucestershire smile


Graham (G4FUJ)

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Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647879
01/07/20 04:41 PM
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I never felt in total control test driving in the plus six. It feels like an untamed beast. The plus four feels just right but I expect you could easily loose it.


JohnV6
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Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Paul F] #647885
01/07/20 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul F
A mate once had a Corvette with a sticker in the rear window which read:

“Speed kills, live longer, buy a Porsche”

Wondering if these might soon be available on the options list of the Plus Six?

hide


My other car is a...oh on a rack in a scrap yard grin2


Jon M
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: John V6] #647892
01/07/20 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by John V6
I never felt in total control test driving in the plus six. It feels like an untamed beast. The plus four feels just right but I expect you could easily loose it.



Looks to me like The Plus Four has replaced the Plus 4, Roadster and made the Plus Six almost redundant in one fell swoop.


Rob

4/4 Sport Grey

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647895
01/07/20 05:50 PM
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There will always be some nutter who thinks way more power is better. Oh hang on that's me, whoops.


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: RobCol] #647897
01/07/20 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RobCol

Originally Posted by John V6
I never felt in total control test driving in the plus six. It feels like an untamed beast. The plus four feels just right but I expect you could easily loose it.



Looks to me like The Plus Four has replaced the Plus 4, Roadster and made the Plus Six almost redundant in one fell swoop.


Agreed, but it lacks character vs the trad , no more lost teeth. I wish MMC every success with it.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Peter J] #647921
01/07/20 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter J
It is my understanding, after talking to a number of experienced drivers, that perversely, the car is safer in Sport and Sport Plus mode.
How is this?

Consider this situation. You have been driving along at about 60 to 65 on a single carriageway road. There is a slow car in front of you, you slow to 30 or so, waiting for an overtaking opportunity. The car thinks you are in traffic and puts you in the highest gear possible, keeping the revis at about 1500, for maximum torque and maximum fuel efficiency. You see a possibility and push down the loud pedal. There is no turbo lag, peak torque is from 1250 rpm. what seems to be turbo lag is computer lag as the engine and box work out that no you are not in traffic and want to go. So the box drops suddenly to 2nd or 3rd and with an open throttle and massive torque the car squats down on the bump stops, the suspension cannot cope and traction is broken: all power goes to one or other wheel. At that point you are a passenger as there is no traction control to help you.

Replay the same situation, but the box in in Sport +. This time when you slow the box holds a relatively low gear, because its program says "this boy is being sporty, so he may well need power soon". The engine is now at 3500+ rpm. You see the opportunity, push the loud pedal and there is no down change, the car surges forward on a wave of torque, without squatting on the rear bump stops and all is well.

The car needs better suspension, I hope someone is working on it.
The car needs to have power seriously limited when in normal Drive mode. I hope someone is working on it.

With the sort of suspension improvements SSL has brought to trads and now S4 Aeros the car would be rather nice, but always able to bite.
With a revised relationship between gearbox and engine management systems it could be fantastic.


FWIW I also agree with your thinking Peter, although possible not use of the Sport + button which amplifies throttle pedal sensitivity. In the days of early three speed auto transmissions the kickdown took considerable "thought" presumably as hydraulic pressures were built up and sent to the clutch bands. The effect, when it eventually happened, was a somewhat crude lurch forward with the dramatic reduction of engine to rear drive ratio. I remember a brief yelp from the skinny(ish) cross plies on my CV8 when the TorqueFlite gearbox kicked down to second and an even bigger one if you could persuade it to kickdown to first. The 460 lb-ft of torque from the Chrysler 383 were diluted by the delayed change, softish torque converter and sheer weight though.

Given nearly half a ton less, turbo torque on demand and dramatically quick changes of the Plus Six's fantastic ZF 8HP box its not difficult to see what it would be like on a slippery road to the unaware. Lack of LSD might help in the dry, spinning away excess power but things could go badly wrong in the wet before that could happen. To me there is something inherently wrong in deliberately not spec'ing an LSD on a car with this weight and power delivery to offset lack of traction control.

Last edited by Richard Wood; 01/07/20 08:04 PM.

Richard

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Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Alistair] #647924
01/07/20 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Alistair
There will always be some nutter who thinks way more power is better. Oh hang on that's me, whoops.


Agree and some people would want at least a six cylinder engine with auto transmission like our friends over the pond. The roads over in the US are bigger and more suited to a Plus Six too.

Like John I wish MMC well. I'm sure they have done their marketing and have a different target market for the Plus Six than the Plus Four.



Rob

4/4 Sport Grey

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647929
01/07/20 08:26 PM
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When I had a test drive the dealer said if you want to test the power make sure you have it in manual mode. He warned specifically about the engine dropping too many gears and losing controls

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Hawki] #647934
01/07/20 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawki
When I had a test drive the dealer said if you want to test the power make sure you have it in manual mode. He warned specifically about the engine dropping too many gears and losing controls


Frightening!
Surely, MMC can develop some gearbox software, to stop the auto box causing control issues, under hard acceleration?

Bud
4/4 - Stanley


Bud
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Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647936
01/07/20 08:50 PM
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Reading all your comments I remember Walter Röhl. He said:

"Ein Auto ist erst dann schnell genug, wenn man morgens davorsteht und Angst hat, es aufzuschließen."

Google translate:

"A car is only fast enough if you stand in front of it in the morning and are afraid to unlock it."


2005 4/4 1800ccm Duratec and a lot of HONDA CX500.......
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647938
01/07/20 08:57 PM
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If Walter Röhrl is afraid of the car the next morning, then he has already conquered it once and got to know it very well. Probably the Plus Six wreckers were not scared enough because they had no chance to get to know the car properly before they lost control.
The image of Morgan is not (yet) aggressive. So it's easy to underestimate the car.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #647942
01/07/20 09:23 PM
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+8Rich Offline
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Now Walter's opinion of the car would be something worth listening to - and watching..


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648407
03/07/20 04:58 PM
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I guess he combination of driver ability ( lack of) combined with possible auto box issues is one that is the cause.
The temptation of top of the range car with that power can put unsympathetic drivers out of their depth. The theory of the overreacting auto box dropping down too many gears and thus delivering high torque to the rear sounds a deadly effect. Seems like a manual box is better suited unless an upgrade can be done to manage the box response better.
The Plus4 looks a better combination in a manual format. I’d opt for the manual.
My trad Plus8 sometimes feels like an auto in that the torque allows fewer gear changes unless you need to. It took a few trips to adjust to the feel after my 4/4. Learning to have a lighter right foot exiting roundabouts, especially in the wet or using a higher gear to limit torque were the key factors.

Last edited by sospan; 03/07/20 05:01 PM.

Red Plus8
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648416
03/07/20 06:03 PM
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John Hildred summed it up on the luxury car program for me.

Just watched the program and for me the interesting bit was John Hildred's comment on his first drive of the Plus Six, he loved it and ordered one but the telling statement was he loved the raw feel without all the "safe" devices which is exactly what he is after.

I think this explains a lot about the alleged 20 losses so far and that a man of his driving experiences can cope with this kind of car, to me he is not the typical new Plus Six customer and that explains a lot.

Driver training should be a prerequisite for the model.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648429
03/07/20 06:33 PM
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Does anyone know how many plus 6 there are on the road? According to how many are left is states there were only 29 on the road in 2019. That seems way too low.

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=Morgan+plus+6&commit=Search

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648431
03/07/20 06:39 PM
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That looks like very little. One would have to know how many Plus Six were built in 2019 and how many were exported.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648432
03/07/20 06:42 PM
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I fully agree. Today’s cars have a lot of safety/driver aids that compensate for lack of ability of the driver. The driver doesn’t realise that they still have to DRIVE the car. They get into situations they think the car will sort out for them.
I like the retro driving feel of my Morgan but would like ABS for added assurance. It is easy to lock the front wheels and getting a true feel for braking has to be learned. OK you can read the road to prevent hard braking but can get caught out by other motorists. How many have heard of cadence braking? How many have tried learning it? How many times have you felt your ABS kick in when braking?
The same applies to other things on any car. Steering feel, engine response, quality of tyres to name a few.
I remember a few firsts.
Disc brakes...WOW!
Power steering.....WOW!


Red Plus8
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648446
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It is frustrating that Morgan were not to able to engineer the transfer of the excellent BMW traction control/stability control system that they use with the same engine and drivetrain.

BMW use it in the M140i and Toyota use it in the new Supra.

The system is outstanding. Subtle but works brilliantly.

Driving my M140i, especially on damp or wet UK roads, the TC light often illuminated if you were pushing on, and that's in a car with a much higher curb weight and heavier rear end.

I recall my test drive on the Plus Six... in 'manual' mode on wet/damp roads, it was easy to break traction even with sympathetic throttle application knowing the potential to to so. I would imagine a 'kick down' in 'Auto' would seriously surprise the unwary.

I totally agree that a 'driver training session' on track should be included with any Plus Six purchase... surely this would also be in the interests of MMC to ensure the car does not get a 'reputation' that could impinge on sales.


Dark Red 4/4 80th Anniversary
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648449
03/07/20 07:56 PM
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Besides the cost of all these tools and their programming, there may be a trivial reason why they are not on board the Plus Six. No space. When I look at how tightly packed everything is under the hood, I would hardly know where to put these extra units.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: pete757] #648453
03/07/20 08:19 PM
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+8Rich Offline
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Originally Posted by pete757
It is frustrating that Morgan were not to able to engineer the transfer of the excellent BMW traction control/stability control system that they use with the same engine and drivetrain.

BMW use it in the M140i and Toyota use it in the new Supra.

The system is outstanding. Subtle but works brilliantly.

Driving my M140i, especially on damp or wet UK roads, the TC light often illuminated if you were pushing on, and that's in a car with a much higher curb weight and heavier rear end.

I recall my test drive on the Plus Six... in 'manual' mode on wet/damp roads, it was easy to break traction even with sympathetic throttle application knowing the potential to to so. I would imagine a 'kick down' in 'Auto' would seriously surprise the unwary.

I totally agree that a 'driver training session' on track should be included with any Plus Six purchase... surely this would also be in the interests of MMC to ensure the car does not get a 'reputation' that could impinge on sales.


That is very interesting to read that their own car (BMW) is totally manageable for a sporting car so all the technology is there, what is your take on the difference knowing both cars, is it the weight differential or inability to put the extra tech into the Plus Six, I honestly don't know but have read enough experienced drivers reports on here to know something is amiss.

Like you I worry that this car will gain a reputation like some of the rawer TVR did which is a very negative thing for all parties.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648473
03/07/20 10:00 PM
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It looks like more than one of the plus 6 cars is being broken and sold for spares on eBay. Far more parts than for other models

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648500
04/07/20 07:48 AM
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I notice silverlake_automotive_recycling have a six speed auto gearbox from a Plus Six on eBay. Must be a rare pre-production version - grab yourself a bargain doh


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - Morton
1966 Land Rover S2a 88 - Lenny
1945 Moto Guzzi Airone
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648511
04/07/20 08:48 AM
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Grab your selves a bargain lads
Plus six centre console


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648548
04/07/20 12:24 PM
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there's about 150 parts there - all four alloys - but only two wiper arms!

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648556
04/07/20 12:46 PM
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Yes I thought it an eclectic mix. I wonder how long they took to strip it down.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: John V6] #648568
04/07/20 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by John V6
Yes I thought it an eclectic mix. I wonder how long they took to strip it down.


Judging by the pictures of Louwmans demonstrator that got crashed, the wheels remove themselves..... shocked2


Simon @ Sifab.co.uk

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Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648577
04/07/20 02:56 PM
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I was told that the reason the BMW stability/traction control system could not be used is that the software would need re-writing to work with such a light car.
So significant cost.
Same with the AEROs, the TC stuff was developed for a car that is 500kg+ more than an AERO.


Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648633
04/07/20 08:03 PM
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I wonder how many newly released cars have no or at least some sort of stability or traction control system?

Curious how the Plus 6 'passed' EU and other countries requirements for this... I cannot help wonder what the legal challenge would be to MMC if a loss of control of a Plus Six resulted in a fatality(s)...

Does the new Plus 4, auto or manual, have any stability/TC system?


Dark Red 4/4 80th Anniversary
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648641
04/07/20 08:36 PM
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I do not think so.


3.7 Roadster
Porsche 964 C2
JCW Mini Cooper S Cab
BMW F750GS
+4 4 1995-2002 / LM 62 +8 2002-07
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648651
04/07/20 09:46 PM
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The new plus 4 does not have the power of the plus 6 and does not feel so ballistic so probably does not need it. Not so much anyway

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648652
04/07/20 09:51 PM
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ESC stability control has been a mandatory on cars for some time.

I believe that as a low volume maker Morgan get some latitude on this ?

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road..._effects/electronic_stability_control_en


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648670
04/07/20 11:08 PM
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Morgan’s and complex systems are likely to end in tears like an out of control Plus 6.

Best to keep things as simple as possible - they don’t have the millions to get this sh#t to work reliably.

I would have loved an electric roof on the Aero but we all know how it would have ended up.


2021 Lapis Blue Plus 6 evil You know it makes sense! thinking





Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648685
05/07/20 05:58 AM
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Different tyre options would probably help, high performance, sticky tyres are great if that’s what you like, but they can be snappy and catch you out when you’re not in the mood, I’ve been very impressed by all season tyres, I even put them on a 911 once and it transformed the car, probably far slower had I tried it on a track, but much safer on ordinary roads with variable grip conditions. Currently on my Mustang and Subaru, still easy to have fun , but far more predictable.

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Peter J] #648694
05/07/20 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter J
I was told that the reason the BMW stability/traction control system could not be used is that the software would need re-writing to work with such a light car.
So significant cost.


I am not an IT expert but I don't think that re-writing the software would be a vast expense. The code would already exist, some parameters would need to be changed for sure, but in IT terms this is not a big job. There must be something more that we are perhaps missing, the control system perhaps? Even testing can't be that expensive once it is up and running?

Agreed that money is probably at the root of the issue,


Andy G
1999 +8 , Indigo Blue.
Ex-John McKecknie/Mike Duncan 1955 +4 racer.
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648702
05/07/20 07:25 AM
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East Harling, Norfolk UK
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Even if by some miracle MMC were able re-write the traction control software and more importantly perform the extensive testing and approvals in house to save otherwise massive costs, I suspect they would still elect to do nothing and let nature take its course. In a fatal accident assuming driver error, better the verdict is accidental death than having the possibility of flawed safety controls being blamed.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - Morton
1966 Land Rover S2a 88 - Lenny
1945 Moto Guzzi Airone
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648732
05/07/20 09:56 AM
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I think the Plus Four has ABS but definitely no traction control . Dan at KH made sure we understood that before giving over the keys.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648744
05/07/20 10:56 AM
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I suspect the challenges of maintaining the manufacturing processes at Morgan and for as long as they have done would have been very difficult indeed, verging on miraculous given the exponential increase in the amount of regulatory processes applied to all areas of the motor industry. I am left to suspect that somewhere in the corridors of governance there was a desire to turn a blind eye when it came to looking at Morgan for many a year..?

It also seems that in my time of observing matters Morgan, from the late 90`s up to the present day, that EXPECTATIONS of Morgan buyers, or would-be Morganeers has altered considerably, while the old guard are still hanging on in there in varying degrees, and perhaps even they are pleased to have more luxurious trim levels, more compliant suspension and at least some of the electronic expectations that modernity provides, even air con.. which is a long way off my initial expectations of a Morgan..But then with advancing years my Luddite tendencies were softened somewhat for me also to evolve into a selective Luddite.

As I typed above I read of the struggle to match vintage coachwork design and build practices, incorporating the ever increasing degrees in complexity that modern more efficient and cleaner engine design technological advance brought with it, to the extent that it seemed the home mechanics of the time were gradually but increasingly squeezed out of a degree of desire/confidence to resolve some of the ..err..foibles ever expected of a Morgan, that became issues which even the dealerships seemed to struggle with.... Such was the effect of digitisation... Though in time digital advances broke free from manufacturers control over many aspects of access to digital process interrogation when code readers became readily available, and internet education followed suit...?

Though to expect the MMC to incorporate ALL of that which other sports car manufacturers have done by way of digital control, perhaps over riding the process of decision making relative to the act of driving in ALL conditions..? Methinks great expectations are bound to become somewhat disappointed in varying degrees relative to the leading edge of technological advance in vehicular technologies of the day that motorists have been conditioned to expect, much as they may have done over the years.. oldgit hide

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Clipper] #648771
05/07/20 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Clipper
Morgan’s and complex systems are likely to end in tears like an out of control Plus 6.

Best to keep things as simple as possible - they don’t have the millions to get this sh#t to work reliably.




But modern tech IS the simplest way of meeting modern design criteria? One fits the other...


Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 gone!

Mark
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648788
05/07/20 02:27 PM
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Alistair Offline
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I am going to be naughty (no change there I hear you say) and suggest something.

Needs a little more development, several bits?. Same was true of the Aero to a degree. Look at the results that Shooter and Peter have had with suspension changes to their Aero's.

I added Mich Pilot Sport Cup 2 on the back of the Coupe and whilst it made a difference I don't think the suspension can really get the best out of the tyre as the contact patch is a little variable. When cold they were worse but a little working and they definitely improved things. Spring and rebound have always felt out of sync which mucks up the contact patch. The S2 felt more comfortable and controlled than the Coupe in many cases. Ditto the gearing on the ZF6 could have come down a bit but at least the injection and V8 were smoother in power delivery. It is not as if it was undrivable so I did not mind however it could have been updated and improved throughout it's long life.

I see an upside for the future. Given the Aero was very low volume spending a ton on development might have been a bit painful? On the other hand the CX is the base of all production so spending time tweaking it is not only justified but perhaps given the Plus Six moments occuring mandatory? It feels like a series of tweaks would be valuable.

Change the engine tune to add a touring mode (as changing the base tune might invalidate WLTP/emissions leading to bigger problems?) for less peaky delivery.
Review the rear suspension to allow more squat to help traction and provide smoother damping?
Add the ESC with a key locked big red off button for those brave days!
Don't let people without experience out on their own for test drives.

Maybe?


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648818
05/07/20 04:36 PM
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TheCustomer Offline
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If the Six's suspension development was anything like the Aero S5's, then it needed a little less development!

The changes we're making on the Aero take its setting back towards where the development team had them before Morgan decided to make the car more like a trad - stiff at the front, soft at the rear.

Your suggestions are all very sensible Alistair.

I'd add a remap to make the low end power delivery more progressive.

Will

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648822
05/07/20 05:08 PM
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People's Republic of South Yor...
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What about a nice piece of ash bolted under the accelerator pedal, just leaving half an inch clearance, as the new owner gains experience they take it to an approved dealer to have some shaved off idea


Jon M
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: CooperMan] #648834
05/07/20 05:48 PM
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My TVR Cerbera had a second spring on the last inch of throttle travel. Blackpool Traction Control!


Brian

Jersey and Spain
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Rovert] #648851
05/07/20 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Rovert
My TVR Cerbera had a second spring on the last inch of throttle travel. Blackpool Traction Control!



laugh2

Yep. That sounds like Blackpool technology.


Giles. Mogless in Paris.
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #648987
06/07/20 03:42 PM
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My gut is telling me this will end in 'tears'...

There is something wrong with the 'legislation' here... that allows the approval of brand new design of a new car in 2019, that manages to avoid the usual regulatory restrictions with respect to 'safety', because of low build numbers! So, why have to install an 'airbag'?... is this some kind of 'selective' ability to satisfy some regulations but not others?

The most powerful Morgan ever produced is allowed to be sold, free of all the various driver aids that are fitted to the other cars that use the same drivetrain, just because the manufacturer cannot 'afford' to develop and test a suitable system... pardon? In that case, give us a car, like the Morgan's to date, that have not ended up in accidents so soon after release. Clearly, the power/drivetrain etc of the car takes the 'average' driver by surprise, a problem exacerbated by the fact that 'we' have all got used to background systems in modern cars that simply 'look after us' when the physics of the car engineering exceeds our 'abilities' as drivers to manage them...

Lotus is another 'Low volume' manufacturer who manages to develop and launch cars to the market with driver aid systems in place... so why is MMC not able to foot the bill to get this (what I would consider in 2020 fit for purpose R&D) and legislative passage to make the company 'exempt' from such requirements?...

Don't get me wrong here, I am not having a downer on the Plus Six/four etc, I am genuinely concerned about this great new product running into potentially serious issues with accidents/write off's/insurance claims/premiums etc etc that could potentially label the car as one to avoid... and that would be very sad.


Dark Red 4/4 80th Anniversary
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #649000
06/07/20 04:21 PM
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Pete,
I agree it doesn't make sense when you splurge £80 k plus on a car.
John


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #649116
07/07/20 10:12 AM
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It is not the outright power that is the problem. It is the fact that turbocharged engines develop full torque at fairly low RPM. The end result is like trying to force an old nut that is stuck with rust using an open ended spanner: when it inevitably rounds off the nut and slips you are going to get banged up knuckles frown

I always thought that the ideal sports car was one with moderate power, perhaps a little more than the family sedan, light weight, and excellent handling. Why the current formula seem to want to compete with a Top Fuel Dragster of a few years back I can not imagine. On today's roads the fun is to be had getting along a curvy bit of road at sane speeds in a car tha sticks on the curves like the proverbial dermot sticks to a blanket.

Almost every day we hear of a Lamborghini, or Ferrari, or similar that has been written off but there are many more of these on the road than Morgan PlusSixes. Personally I have never hankered after a mega powerful supercar but I can admire the form and style.

Even with the PlusFour Morgan seems to have opted for the most powerful version of the motor and could easily have taken something with a lower state of tune that would have been more manageable.

In the end this risks to be subject to a similar history as the Chevrolet Corvair.

[Linked Image]


Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #649120
07/07/20 10:23 AM
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You may be right Peter. It was why I decided the Plus six wasn't for me.
I also after driving the Plus Four wondered why I would need that power. To be honest the Roadster I have now has more character & will be probably just as fast driving safely at legal speeds.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #649741
10/07/20 03:18 PM
10/07/20 03:18 PM
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How much on the road testing was done to assess and set the mapping? On the systems from a few years ago ECU/ map set up started with a basic set up usually on a rolling road followed by “live” tuning from real world on the road tests. OK the systems are more complex these days with much more than just the basic tune of fuelling, advance etc being tweaked. Lambda feedback, temperature sensors for air and coolant, crank sensors......they all contribute to the ecu deciding how the engine runs. My Plus8 has two oil pressure sensors. One for the dash gauge and another to tell the ECU to shut the engine off if oil pressure drops.
With auto boxes the “map” to manage gear shifts will have a set of rules to tell it to change up or down so has that been matched to suit a light Morgan with different torque and speed requirements to the original heavier BMW cars? The requirements will be different. The same torque output would affect a light Morgan more than a heavier BMW.
Try your car out by accelerating in different gears from the same speed to gauge the response. Do it on a clear, straight stretch of road, starting in higher then down one. Don’t use high revs for a safety margin!
It is a big reason why I prefer manual gears and spending time to learn the differing response for rev/gear combinations.


Red Plus8
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #649742
10/07/20 03:24 PM
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Just to add.....I love the higher torque of the Plus8 as it allows softer acceleration by coping with the needs in a higher gear. This avoids a surge of torque if you change down at the same revs. Yes you can push it if conditions allow but in the wet you can use a higher gear to limit the torque surge causing rear end twitching. I feel in more control with a manual box that I manage myself.

Last edited by sospan; 10/07/20 03:25 PM.

Red Plus8
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: pete757] #650519
14/07/20 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by pete757
My gut is telling me this will end in 'tears'...

There is something wrong with the 'legislation' here... that allows the approval of brand new design of a new car in 2019, that manages to avoid the usual regulatory restrictions with respect to 'safety', because of low build numbers! So, why have to install an 'airbag'?... is this some kind of 'selective' ability to satisfy some regulations but not others?

The most powerful Morgan ever produced is allowed to be sold, free of all the various driver aids that are fitted to the other cars that use the same drivetrain, just because the manufacturer cannot 'afford' to develop and test a suitable system... pardon? In that case, give us a car, like the Morgan's to date, that have not ended up in accidents so soon after release. Clearly, the power/drivetrain etc of the car takes the 'average' driver by surprise, a problem exacerbated by the fact that 'we' have all got used to background systems in modern cars that simply 'look after us' when the physics of the car engineering exceeds our 'abilities' as drivers to manage them...

Lotus is another 'Low volume' manufacturer who manages to develop and launch cars to the market with driver aid systems in place... so why is MMC not able to foot the bill to get this (what I would consider in 2020 fit for purpose R&D) and legislative passage to make the company 'exempt' from such requirements?...

Don't get me wrong here, I am not having a downer on the Plus Six/four etc, I am genuinely concerned about this great new product running into potentially serious issues with accidents/write off's/insurance claims/premiums etc etc that could potentially label the car as one to avoid... and that would be very sad.


I think it is a tricky one to answer this, I for one would rather be able to go out and buy a car that has no driver aids (afterall that is one of the things most of us Morgan owners seem to enjoy) and therefore I am glad the legislation allows this - otherwise where do we stop?
Driving is inherently dangerous, do we ban any car that isn't a huge SUV so people are safer, do we automate everything and so on and so forth.

I think perhaps more emphasis needs to be made on just how much performance there is available, to ensure that people are aware but that is down to the dealers for the most part. I think a manual version would go someway to easing the issues for some, time will tell if that becomes an option!
Otherwise for me its a case of respecting the vehicle and what it can do, and a bit of common sense that a light car with huge turbo power is going to demand some serious respect.

cheers


Aero 8 S1

"What we do in life.. echoes in eternity."
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #650620
14/07/20 07:42 PM
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People can go out and buy McLarens or Lamborghinis without any special training - I'm not sure I really see the difference to be honest.

I've had some very powerful cars over the years (some without any computerised driver aids), I'm still alive. smile I don't think any of the dealers gave me any special warnings either.


+8 4.8
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #650644
14/07/20 10:06 PM
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Hertfordshire
If you bought a Caterham HPC with the VX Vauxhall engine in the 90s you were offered a high performance driving course mandatory if under 25, although the 620r is considerably faster no requirement exists now.

I think it wouldn’t be a bad idea for Morgan to offer something similar, good for marketing as much for safety.

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #650701
15/07/20 10:39 AM
15/07/20 10:39 AM
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Posts: 10,273
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
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I think it is on the price list for new purchasers, it is the test drive dummies that seem to test the airbags in many situations. I think if you have parted with money to buy it then you are likely to be a lot more careful.


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #650702
15/07/20 10:48 AM
15/07/20 10:48 AM
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Posts: 4,996
Austria, Vienna area
The Austrian Offline
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Mr Darwin put forward a theory that worked for centuries. The theory requires a small change for man.

Nowadays, survival of the fittest has less to do with physical strength than with the use of the brain when dealing with machines.
Money is needed to buy a modern Morgan. The brain helps to keep her on the road.


Hannes
once: Green M3W; 2013
now: Red 4/4 Sport; 2011
and some practical cars for use in real life
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #650946
16/07/20 08:07 PM
16/07/20 08:07 PM
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Posts: 6,716
Northamptonshire UK
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SBM Offline
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IF the car gains a reputation, and IF people view it as such, then arguably it will be the one to have in the future. Everyone remembers the scary ones, Kawasaki's triple cylinder motorcycles, Porsches 911 etc etc.

People like a bad boy to show off..!

Whether they use it is neither here or there, but the fact it exists and obtainable may just make it THE one to keep hold of..


Steve
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: SBM] #650967
16/07/20 09:22 PM
16/07/20 09:22 PM
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Posts: 621
Suffolk Uk.
Hawki Offline
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Originally Posted by Stringers Best Mate
IF the car gains a reputation, and IF people view it as such, then arguably it will be the one to have in the future. Everyone remembers the scary ones, Kawasaki's triple cylinder motorcycles, Porsches 911 etc etc.

People like a bad boy to show off..!

Whether they use it is neither here or there, but the fact it exists and obtainable may just make it THE one to keep hold of..

Especially if Morgan tame it in the future.

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651032
17/07/20 10:35 AM
17/07/20 10:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,015
People's Republic of South Yor...
CooperMan Offline
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Plenty of tuning specialists offer re-mapping of that BMW engine (usually for more power) so perhaps a de-tune or softer map ?


Jon M
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651041
17/07/20 11:46 AM
17/07/20 11:46 AM
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Posts: 621
Suffolk Uk.
Hawki Offline
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Agreed. It initially appears an interesting prospect but like you say the fact that it will always be a write off makes it far less desirable to do

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: CooperMan] #651044
17/07/20 12:31 PM
17/07/20 12:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 32,426
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
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Originally Posted by CooperMan
Plenty of tuning specialists offer re-mapping of that BMW engine (usually for more power) so perhaps a de-tune or softer map ?

That makes a lot of sense to me Jon especially as one of our long standing Morgan owners was not offered any insurance cover for a Plus Six recently when he asked Headley..

Their reputation has travelled.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651086
17/07/20 06:00 PM
17/07/20 06:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,710
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
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I would think that it is already much better to drive the Plus Six with its manual shift paddle to have control.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Neilda] #651102
17/07/20 06:39 PM
17/07/20 06:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
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pete757 Offline
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Originally Posted by Neilda
People can go out and buy McLarens or Lamborghinis without any special training - I'm not sure I really see the difference to be honest.

I've had some very powerful cars over the years (some without any computerised driver aids), I'm still alive. smile I don't think any of the dealers gave me any special warnings either.



I think you will find that new McLarens, Lambo's etc etc all have a very comprehensive suit of 'driver aids' that can be 'selected' downwards as required... "Race'! >:)


Dark Red 4/4 80th Anniversary
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: pete757] #651120
17/07/20 08:20 PM
17/07/20 08:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,946
Surrey. UK
Neilda Offline
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Originally Posted by pete757
Originally Posted by Neilda
People can go out and buy McLarens or Lamborghinis without any special training - I'm not sure I really see the difference to be honest.

I've had some very powerful cars over the years (some without any computerised driver aids), I'm still alive. smile I don't think any of the dealers gave me any special warnings either.



I think you will find that new McLarens, Lambo's etc etc all have a very comprehensive suit of 'driver aids' that can be 'selected' downwards as required... "Race'! >:)




My Ford GT - which was a 200 + mph car, had no driver aids at all. The traction control on my Murcielago was turned off - safer without.


+8 4.8
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651141
17/07/20 10:22 PM
17/07/20 10:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 895
Lancashire
RobCol Offline
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I see that the Plus Six & Plus Four have disclaimers in their handbooks

Quote
Obtain instructions from a competent source on all aspects of the
operation of this high performance vehicle.
• Understand that this vehicle is not fitted with airbags or electronic stability
control systems but is fitted with an Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS).
• Observe the warnings and maintenance requirements contained within this
Owner’s Manual.
Obtain qualified training in safe and proper driving techniques, applicable
to high performance vehicles.

• Know your own limits and skill level. Driving safely within your own limits
may help you to avoid an accident.
• Take particular care when driving on wet or slippery surfaces.




Rob

4/4 Sport Grey

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: RobCol] #651144
17/07/20 11:44 PM
17/07/20 11:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 32,426
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
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Devonshire
Originally Posted by RobCol

I see that the Plus Six & Plus Four have disclaimers in their handbooks

Quote
Obtain instructions from a competent source on all aspects of the
operation of this high performance vehicle.
• Understand that this vehicle is not fitted with airbags or electronic stability
control systems but is fitted with an Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS).
• Observe the warnings and maintenance requirements contained within this
Owner’s Manual.
Obtain qualified training in safe and proper driving techniques, applicable
to high performance vehicles.

• Know your own limits and skill level. Driving safely within your own limits
may help you to avoid an accident.
• Take particular care when driving on wet or slippery surfaces.



That sounds like a good get out for the company and the cynic in me says the same may apply to the insurance companies unless you have proof that you have undertaken such training coffee

I imagine they are a little tired of the number of demo cars being totalled so far.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651179
18/07/20 09:14 AM
18/07/20 09:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,716
Northamptonshire UK
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SBM Offline
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Northamptonshire UK
I'm sure any legal beagle worth their salt would tear into that sentence as it fails to specify a standard. Simply saying "qualified training" could mean your local qualified driving instructor could run you through and issue a letter..which is hardly what you need..!!

It does sadden me that there is a crying need for a Morgan 'approved' course to aspire to, and yet no-one has any affiliations through the racing side of the firm that would run it a business opportunity.


Steve
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: SBM] #651184
18/07/20 09:47 AM
18/07/20 09:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,950
Norfolk
PeterG Offline
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Norfolk
Originally Posted by Stringers Best Mate


It does sadden me that there is a crying need for a Morgan 'approved' course to aspire to, and yet no-one has any affiliations through the racing side of the firm that would run it a business opportunity.


There was the 3 Wheeler training, I did it and thought it was a worthwhile exercise. I don't think there are enough Plus Sixes sold to make it a "business" but if the Plus Fours have a similar potential to catch inexperienced/careless drivers out because let's be honest here, thats what it boils down too then possibly a quarterly track day type course via Aero Racing would be beneficial and good fun.

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651192
18/07/20 10:29 AM
18/07/20 10:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 987
East Sussex, ENGLAND
andymot Offline
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East Sussex, ENGLAND
I did the Morgan 3 wheeler training as well- the only driving training I had done for nearly 25 years - and found it very useful. It encouraged me to do an advanced course with ROSPA as well - so much to learn that I'd not discovered - or forgotten. They put much emphasis on speed limits ( obvious really) but the advanced aspects are invaluable. Things like observation and reading the road. With such performance potential, plus limited safety aids, its all too easy to run out of skill with a new CX it seems.


2015 Morgan 4/4 (Wolf fettled) previously 2014 M3W
MINI Cooper S and numerous BMC/BL relics.

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: SBM] #651205
18/07/20 12:04 PM
18/07/20 12:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,415
SimonH Offline
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Posts: 1,415
Originally Posted by Stringers Best Mate
I'm sure any legal beagle worth their salt would tear into that sentence as it fails to specify a standard. Simply saying "qualified training" could mean your local qualified driving instructor could run you through and issue a letter..which is hardly what you need..!!

It does sadden me that there is a crying need for a Morgan 'approved' course to aspire to, and yet no-one has any affiliations through the racing side of the firm that would run it a business opportunity.


What racing side of the firm?


Simon @ Sifab.co.uk

Sifabtemporary@gmail.com
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: SimonH] #651272
18/07/20 06:08 PM
18/07/20 06:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,716
Northamptonshire UK
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SBM Offline
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SBM  Offline
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Northamptonshire UK
Originally Posted by SimonH


What racing side of the firm?


Previous racing side of the firm then..


Steve
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: PeterG] #651381
19/07/20 11:00 AM
19/07/20 11:00 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,273
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
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Alistair  Offline
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Hampshire
Originally Posted by PeterG
Originally Posted by Stringers Best Mate


It does sadden me that there is a crying need for a Morgan 'approved' course to aspire to, and yet no-one has any affiliations through the racing side of the firm that would run it a business opportunity.


There was the 3 Wheeler training, I did it and thought it was a worthwhile exercise. I don't think there are enough Plus Sixes sold to make it a "business" but if the Plus Fours have a similar potential to catch inexperienced/careless drivers out because let's be honest here, thats what it boils down too then possibly a quarterly track day type course via Aero Racing would be beneficial and good fun.


Is there a simple possibility of contracting a well known ex-racing driver like a stig or someone similar. Part funding it from Morgan and then making them a resource available to new and pre-loved Plus Six owners? It would suit the flexible timing racers often need due to other circumstances?

I agree re the softmap on the engine. I am going to guess that the emissions part of the map dulls the throttle response so when you clog it the transition plus extra power is like a sledge hammer. Just mapping out the dull earlier part as well as smoothing out the turbo map would be a good start. While some companies will sell fixed maps the good ones will have a man with a computer that will map it personally. We had a couple of those floating around in the Skyline community. It would cost a bit more but was really great when you experienced it.

1. Rolling road the car to check for an risk
2. Read the map and check how the owner wanted it (all top end, easy road etc)
3. Do various map tweaks
4. Test drive and feedback
5. More tweaks
6. See four
7. Rolling road and document
8. Good run to check
9. Final inspection

I had one of the Mercs tweaked. added only 20hp to the top end but removed the slow step off response to a small throttle opening and made the car much nicer to drive in traffic.


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651383
19/07/20 11:03 AM
19/07/20 11:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,914
Suffolk, England
John V6 Offline
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Like all car accidents the issue could be eye off the ball for a second . All of us motorcyclists have experienced the moment you missed the diesel or rotten leave & the arse end went forward.
That car is so powerful it requires constant attention.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651384
19/07/20 11:04 AM
19/07/20 11:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,914
Suffolk, England
John V6 Offline
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Like all car accidents the issue could be eye off the ball for a second . All of us motorcyclists have experienced the moment you missed the diesel or rotten leave & the arse end went forward.
That car is so powerful it requires constant attention.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: John V6] #651420
19/07/20 03:18 PM
19/07/20 03:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,996
NE Scotland
Ewan Offline
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NE Scotland

Originally Posted by John V6
Like all car accidents the issue could be eye off the ball for a second . All of us motorcyclists have experienced the moment you missed the diesel or rotten leave & the arse end went forward.
That car is so powerful it requires constant attention.

Originally Posted by John V6
Like all car accidents the issue could be eye off the ball for a second . All of us motorcyclists have experienced the moment you missed the diesel or rotten leave & the arse end went forward.
That car is so powerful it requires constant attention.


Advice so good, it’s worth repeating rofl


Last edited by ewn; 19/07/20 03:21 PM.
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651432
19/07/20 04:39 PM
19/07/20 04:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,914
Suffolk, England
John V6 Offline
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Agreed but I am not sure why I posted it twice.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651450
19/07/20 05:26 PM
19/07/20 05:26 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,669
Llanelli
sospan Offline
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Llanelli
I posted a link a while back about observation training for fighter pilots. Basically teaching them to change the way they viewed AND filled in the gaps that the brain leaves when you scan with your eyes. Hence why the comment “ I didn’t see him” is often the case.
As for managing the power and torque delivery, that needs LEARNING either on a high power driving course or taking the time to feel the varying response in the car. There is a temptation to use a heavy right foot to try out the car. Dangerous when you have a high power/weight ratio and high torque.
I took my time adjusting from the 4/4 to the Plus 8. It is so easy to get a rear end twitch in the Plus 8 if heavy footed, or early, in the lower gears. 3000rpm is a sweet spot where you feel the car come alive but the actual response varies depending on the gear selected. As the response is learned so confidence increases.


Red Plus8
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651592
20/07/20 04:34 PM
20/07/20 04:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,015
People's Republic of South Yor...
CooperMan Offline
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It's not only the PlusSix that has a problem...

https://youtu.be/egWuwNOT8EQ


Jon M
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651602
20/07/20 05:08 PM
20/07/20 05:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 20,826
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
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South Yorkshire
As soon as self belief exceeds ability it will not end well.

We've all been there at some stage!


DaveW
'05 Red Roadster S1
'16 Yellow (Not the only) Narrow AR GDI Plus 4
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651610
20/07/20 06:03 PM
20/07/20 06:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,914
Suffolk, England
John V6 Offline
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agreed but he has quite a car collection.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651646
20/07/20 08:15 PM
20/07/20 08:15 PM
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L
Luddite Offline
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Collectors item CooperMan.. 225th out of 3000... pity

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651834
21/07/20 06:32 PM
21/07/20 06:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 32,426
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
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Devonshire
For those of you that remember the Louwmans demonstrator getting written off within a few metres of the dealership (the front wheels became detached that one) the customer driver suffered a broken jaw and broken ankle, he was lucky I would say.

It just goes to show the strength of these new bonded tubs.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651849
21/07/20 07:21 PM
21/07/20 07:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 320
West Dorset
R
rid967 Offline OP
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West Dorset
Just seen a post on Facebook that suggests that another Plus Six has ended up climbing a tree......unless the news (happened in Holland within 100 metres of leaving the dealership on a test drive) is old news being repeated.


3.7 Roadster
Porsche 964 C2
JCW Mini Cooper S Cab
BMW F750GS
+4 4 1995-2002 / LM 62 +8 2002-07
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #651850
21/07/20 07:28 PM
21/07/20 07:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,273
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
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Hampshire
Yes an old item that someone has just realised.


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #652560
26/07/20 08:00 AM
26/07/20 08:00 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 863
Perthshire & Kent
F
flyfisher Offline
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Perthshire & Kent

Look at this on eBay
2018 MORGAN PLUS 6 PAIR OF FRONT WIPER ARMS

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353140456074


Is this a +8 development car as registered as 2010 +8 but with Plus 6 parts...

It’s a write off anyway...

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: flyfisher] #652562
26/07/20 08:08 AM
26/07/20 08:08 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,387
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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Cheltenham, Glos. UK
£1003 for a pair of wiper arms and wiper blades?? rofl


Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'09 Alfa Romeo MiTo
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: rid967] #652566
26/07/20 08:43 AM
26/07/20 08:43 AM
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Posts: 621
Suffolk Uk.
Hawki Offline
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Suffolk Uk.
Only a slight twist on the chassis on the eBay car. Must have had a serious impact

Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ] #652596
26/07/20 11:36 AM
26/07/20 11:36 AM
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Posts: 10,273
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
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Hampshire
Originally Posted by Graham, G4FUJ
£1003 for a pair of wiper arms and wiper blades?? rofl


I thought they were just quoting standard parts prices ? what's the problem ?


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: Another Plus Six bites the dust! [Re: Alistair] #652601
26/07/20 11:56 AM
26/07/20 11:56 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,387
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Originally Posted by Alistair
I thought they were just quoting standard parts prices ? what's the problem ?

Oh dear!! grin2


Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'09 Alfa Romeo MiTo
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