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Brake balance #654480
05/08/20 09:51 PM
05/08/20 09:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 635
I
IcePack Online content OP
Talk Morgan Regular
IcePack  Online Content OP
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I

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 635
Had to do an emergency stop. Thought nearside front locked up so had the balance checked at local F1 tyres. But the fronts were pretty even. However the rears were not. Off side 190 near side 110 (not sure of the units) hand brake similar difference. Fitter thought it may just be a build up of dust. Ok maybe but the car has recently been serviced with particular attention to the rear brakes. From the service report the shoes were glazed. Wonder what I should look for before pulling the drum. ( by the way F1 did the test FOC as really a brake check & they did no work on the car)


4/4 Ivory 4.1:1 axle, Jaguar XE R-Sport.
Re: Brake balance [Re: IcePack] #654484
05/08/20 10:19 PM
05/08/20 10:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 898
A
Arwyn Williams Offline
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Arwyn Williams  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 898
Would help if we knew what year/model you have?

Could be anything from glazed shoes, leaking wheel cylinder, leaking hub seal

No substitute for taking drum off and having a good look!

Arwyn

Re: Brake balance [Re: IcePack] #654487
05/08/20 10:30 PM
05/08/20 10:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,380
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
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Heinz  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,380
Köln Germany
Has the brake fluid been changed? When mine was changed I had a lot of air bubbles in the old brake fluid on the right rear. That was the reason for the brake imbalance in the rear. After bleeding, the brake effect was transformed.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Brake balance [Re: IcePack] #654504
06/08/20 08:05 AM
06/08/20 08:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 635
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IcePack Online content OP
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IcePack  Online Content OP
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Posts: 635
No they did not change the fluid. less than 1000 miles since service. She is a Nov 2011 4/4. I was wondering if it is something to do with the auto adjuster.


4/4 Ivory 4.1:1 axle, Jaguar XE R-Sport.
Re: Brake balance [Re: IcePack] #654517
06/08/20 09:41 AM
06/08/20 09:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,380
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
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Heinz  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,380
Köln Germany
So the right rear brake had the most of air bubbles when bleeding in my case, it makes a difference in the braking power to renew the brake fluid all two years.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Brake balance [Re: IcePack] #654529
06/08/20 11:07 AM
06/08/20 11:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,178
Staffordshire
IvorMog Online content
Has a lot to Say!
IvorMog  Online Content
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,178
Staffordshire
I'm with Arwyn on this.

It's not difficult to remove the rear drums and have a good look.

However, first jack up the rear of the car (use axle stands for safety) and spin both wheels individually to check the brakes are not binding on either side.

Then apply the brakes a few times and make sure both sides are still free.

If, after this test, one brake is binding then I would suspect a possible sticky or seized cylinder.

When I did mine it cured my cars pulling to one side.

SBO, make sure the handbrake is free as well.


Bob

1999 4/4 2 litre Zetec
Re: Brake balance [Re: IcePack] #654533
06/08/20 12:03 PM
06/08/20 12:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 635
I
IcePack Online content OP
Talk Morgan Regular
IcePack  Online Content OP
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 635
IVor mog thanks , yes agreed but nothing is running hot & before I start fiddling I wondered if anyone else had an idea. I have never liked the auto adjusters. Preferred the old type. Apart from pumping the hand brake is there another way of adjusting them? The morgan garage who did service checked the cylinders but yes I know how quickly they deteriorate & fluid Is due a change 3 yrs.


4/4 Ivory 4.1:1 axle, Jaguar XE R-Sport.
Re: Brake balance [Re: IcePack] #654560
06/08/20 02:43 PM
06/08/20 02:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 216
Devon, UK
vincentvg Offline
L - Learner Plates On
vincentvg  Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 216
Devon, UK
Definitely concur with the above. I asked a certain well-known dealer (who'd better be nameless) to fit new shoes to the rears of my 2011 Roadster, as I'd had some squeal and found linings were thin and drums had a lot of dust. This they did - just before lockdown. Noticed rear hubs were very hot on my return home - but didn't think much of it until driven again after lockdown - when rear wheels were like radiators - absolutely red hot - too hot to touch!

So I pulled the drums and found both cylinders were seized solid on the leading shoe side - thus holding new thicker linings against the drums and causing the heat build-up.

I changed the cylinders myself (if a job's worth doing etc ....) and found the old cylinders so seized that I couldn't compress the pistons back in even when squeezed in my bench vice. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that said dealer fitted new shoes to seized cylinders - but because of the lockdown delay I couldn't be bothered taking it back as a complaint - they'd have a ready-made excuse that it was the lay-up that caused the seizure.

I've put it down to experience - and will probably go elsewhere in future swear

So definitely - in my view - vital to check that both pistons, both sides are free to move in and out (not just rotate)!


Nick
Connaught Green Roadster V6
Re: Brake balance [Re: IcePack] #654578
06/08/20 04:44 PM
06/08/20 04:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 637
North Somerset, UK
Deejay Offline
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Deejay  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 637
North Somerset, UK
From all the seized brake cylinder stories I have heard over the years, it seems that the rear nearside is the most vulnerable. Maybe it splashes through more puddles on that side?
So that’s where I would start but as has been said already always inspect both sides.


Doug

2011 +4 in Rich Maroon
1972 750 “ComDom” sprinter
1958 Triton 650
1992 Triumph Trophy 900
Re: Brake balance [Re: IcePack] #656876
17/08/20 05:23 PM
17/08/20 05:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 635
I
IcePack Online content OP
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IcePack  Online Content OP
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 635
Managed to get some time today to pull the drum on the near side. Tried to do it without releasing the h/brake cables. Well the drum came off but would not go back on without releasing the h/brake cables. I did not want to dismantle the unit shoes etc, but checked the piston was ok, It was fine and appeared to move OK. (Had to use mobile phone video as was on my own.)No sign of rust.
put some mintex grease behind the dust caps. The shoes were somewhat glazed but not to bad.(Was also a comment from the service) Gave them a quick rough up and general clean. Got the drum back on eventually. Now the rub no pun intended. If I secure the H/Brake cables in their correct place on the hoop under the tool tray and have the adjustment set to max (Nut just onto the cable) the drums virtually lock up. You can not turn them without a wheel on. Only way they would run free is if I left one of the blocks that the cable goes through loose. Seems the cable is a little short maybe. I have it secured with a cable tie. Brakes feel fine no pull but note that after a run off side is a little warmer than near side.H/Brake works, but is not good and seems to only be operating on off side. The H/brake cable is virtually new, whole thing replaced in November by a well known morgan garage where the car has recently been serviced. Obviously she will not pass her MOT in this state and as I don't have the tools to do a complete strip, fluid change & rebuild. Something is telling me the near side has not been built up correctly as trailing shoe was not always in contact with piston.
So yes she will be going to a different Morgan garage to get sorted.
One last question could the wrong H/Brake cable been fitted.? 2011 4/4

Last edited by IcePack; 17/08/20 09:57 PM.

4/4 Ivory 4.1:1 axle, Jaguar XE R-Sport.
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