Click here to return to the home page.
Image of a road.
Who's Online Now
16 registered members (John Winn, Phil4/4, Robbie Mathisen, Jays ex Nero, ianc, olwyn, JohnS, PeterG, PHZI, David@Belmont, Grumpy2, Camelot, James B W, DJC, Fuel.inj, washman54), 177 guests, and 14 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
John V6 369
+8Rich 231
TBM 163
CooperMan 122
Newest Topics
DRIVERS DOOR DROP..
by KEVFITZ. 21/10/20 04:33 PM
Three wheelers galore
by Richard Wood. 21/10/20 03:42 PM
Another Configurator
by Jon G4LJW. 21/10/20 03:23 PM
For all you Landie buffs
by athelstan. 21/10/20 09:26 AM
Anyone used Colourlock on leather?
by Andrew1806. 20/10/20 08:53 PM
Magnecor leads
by thelastgizmo. 20/10/20 07:27 PM
Historic Vanwall to return
by DirkM. 20/10/20 05:01 PM
Latest Photos
Malvern Show 2
Malvern Show 1
MGB`s can corrode..?
Winter Project
How now brown cow
Newest Members
Ingenious, JMT, Brian G, beetle back, Apple58
7185 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics39,634
Posts655,409
Members7,185
Most Online1,033
Dec 28th, 2019
Today's Birthdays
paul
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Re: Sustainability in car design [Re: Rob Thornton] #662063
14/09/20 07:15 AM
14/09/20 07:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,921
howard Offline
Part of the Furniture
howard  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,921
I would doubt your use of the word "normal".

Either way, and back to the original question, the definition of kinetic energy depends on the mass of the body concerned. For a given speed, twice the ,ass requires twice the energy and therefore twice the fuel used. So the bloat of the drug dealer SUV is an environmental disaster even before its used for a half mile school run.

Re: Sustainability in car design [Re: Rob Thornton] #662066
14/09/20 07:33 AM
14/09/20 07:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,687
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,687
Hampshire
I have had a long line of drug dealer wagons, most have been default fitted with the black window tint when I have purchased them. I like to have the rear blacked out simply because I do carry some expensive computer equipment quite often and want to take as many precautions as possible protecting it and my N.C.B.

I do agree with you comment re visibility, that also applies when they are behind you (just like white vans etc) as you find you cannot so easily see bikes/blue lights and other filtering activities.

I guess we could coin a new issue Howard, E=SUV2 (cannot find the raised 2 for squared) on impact.


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: Sustainability in car design [Re: Rob Thornton] #662084
14/09/20 09:01 AM
14/09/20 09:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,790
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,790
South Yorkshire
The fact remains that most SUVs around us are driven by young women alone.

On the school run the SUV outnumbers conventional cars.

So fashion trumps what? Common sense? The environment? Whatever.


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) AR Plus 4
Re: Sustainability in car design [Re: Rob Thornton] #662094
14/09/20 09:39 AM
14/09/20 09:39 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,311
Llanelli
sospan Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
sospan  Offline
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,311
Llanelli
A good cross section of experiences and discussion.
If I can simplify things without too much controversy then here goes.
Why does someone buy a certain car?
Pure functionality......based on analysing the use it will be put to.
Fashion......following the herd to “fit in” or portray a lifestyle.
Fun......a toy to enjoy.
Affordability.......getting, keeping on the road, running costs, ability to own multiple cars to cover needs.
There will also be a combination of these governing the choice of manufacturer, deals, personal views.
Marketing is a huge budget. Last weekend I heard Toto Wolf say the Mercedes budget was 4.5 billion utilising the sporty image from F1. I think this includes the cost of F1 (300m a year?). Correct me if I am wrong! I remember the marketing from my days in the cigar industry. Hamlet, Mannikin......big budgets to create an image with fun. I mean big too. Blind testing showed our cigars were less liked for smoking but the advertising moved them up in preference.
Buy a Morgan....you buy into a lifestyle. No good for a family day out but you get another people carrier or similar for that.
High mileage commute? Diesel ( unless it creates extra eco costs).
So, why do I own a Morgan?
Enjoyment from the driving experience plus the social aspects. I nearly built a Caterham but the Morgan fills the void in a friendlier way that includes swmbo . She called a Caterham a motorised coffin. The Morgan is acceptable. A win win situation.


Red Plus8
Re: Sustainability in car design [Re: Rob Thornton] #662098
14/09/20 10:14 AM
14/09/20 10:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,790
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,790
South Yorkshire
I never had the guts to buy a Caterham, but I still have an itch.

Likewise the Lotus Elan.


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) AR Plus 4
Re: Sustainability in car design [Re: howard] #662108
14/09/20 11:19 AM
14/09/20 11:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 661
Madrid, Spain
Marmota Online content
Talk Morgan Regular
Marmota  Online Content
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 661
Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted by howard
I would doubt your use of the word "normal".

Either way, and back to the original question, the definition of kinetic energy depends on the mass of the body concerned. For a given speed, twice the ,ass requires twice the energy and therefore twice the fuel used. So the bloat of the drug dealer SUV is an environmental disaster even before its used for a half mile school run.


More interesting numbers:

Jaguar XF 2.5d with 240hp AWD - Length 4.954 mm - Width 1.982 mm - Height 1.457 mm - Weight 1.808 kg - Official consumption (mix) 5,7-5,9 l/100km = 49,6-47,8 mpg - Emissions 151-155 g/km of CO2

Jaguar F-Pace 2.5d with 240hp AWD - Length 4.731 mm - Width 2.071 mm - Height 1.666 mm - Weight 1.880 kg - Official consumption (mix) 6,3-6,5 l/100km = 44,8-43,5 mpg - Emissions 166-171 g/km of CO2

Numbers' conclusions: the SUV, compared to the sedan:
223mm shorter (-4,5%)
89 mm wider (+4,5%)
209 mm taller (+14,3%)
72 kg heavier (+4%)
0,6 l/100km = 4,8 mpg more “greedy” (+10,5%)
15 g/km of CO2 (+9,9%) more contaminant

My doubt is where do you get your information saying the SUV is twice the mass than the corresponding sedan? Because numbers say it's shorter (easier to park?) and it weights just 72 kg more than the sedan. This means that, as pointed out by DaveW, if SUVs are driven by only a young woman, and you drive your sedan with two people inside, you probably weight more than this "massive", "huge", "monstruous" SUV... slap

I understand you don't like SUVs and you have your reasons, but numbers tell that some of these points you mention (size weight, consumption) are not double at all, but a discrete "below" 10% at least with the example given (I won't do this exercise with other brands / models, as I know they are very high chances they will be too similar) winky


Javier - Madrid, Spain - Commander of Speedy Marmots Bomb Squadron
www.speedymarmots.com
Re: Sustainability in car design [Re: Rob Thornton] #662122
14/09/20 12:28 PM
14/09/20 12:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 358
Bristol
M
MJF Offline
Learner Plates Off!
MJF  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
M

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 358
Bristol
It is conceivable that a reasonable percentage of the population just aren't interested in driving round like their hair is on fire, so they just do not give monkeys about a cars handling, aerodynamics or weight saving.

They may just want an SUV as it offers

Good ride comfort
Easy Ingress / Egress - particularly lifting little kids in and out
Good drivers visibility - makes it easy to see the extremities
Good rear seat passenger visibility - as it stops kids throwing up

If 91% of privately owned cars are being funded by PCP's they may also go for the cheaper option which is often the SUV as it has better residuals, presumably as more people want them, so they are easier to shift to the second owner.

The world is thankfully full of different people living different lives with different priorities, so one persons view of common sense is not necessarily the same as someone else who may just be trying to juggle a busy life of a full time job whilst trying to look after kids and ageing parents and their car is just a tool for doing a job.

Re: Sustainability in car design [Re: Rob Thornton] #662133
14/09/20 01:21 PM
14/09/20 01:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,687
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,687
Hampshire
No no this is the twitter generation, they want it all their own way now and with added Unicorn laugh2

Yes a fair point on the PCP and manufacturer value etc.


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: Sustainability in car design [Re: Rob Thornton] #662189
14/09/20 05:06 PM
14/09/20 05:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 13,012
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Peter J  Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 13,012
Salisbury, UK
Added unicorn?
Please explain.......


Peter,
V8s are best....
Tarka the 'Otter Mog....2014 Plus 8
AMG C63 Estate.


Re: Sustainability in car design [Re: Rob Thornton] #662202
14/09/20 06:13 PM
14/09/20 06:13 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,311
Llanelli
sospan Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
sospan  Offline
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,311
Llanelli
PeterJ....you need to expand your view on life today......
We are in a media based bullshit era where expectations and entitlement rule.
Wikipedia and google provide answers to evrything you need to know plus stuff you don’t.

Last edited by sospan; 14/09/20 06:14 PM.

Red Plus8
Page 5 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Aeroman, Simon 

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1