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Re: does anyone understand the covid rules? [Re: pandy] #662339
15/09/20 11:35 AM
15/09/20 11:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,736
Renfrewshire
BobtheTrain Offline
Charter Member
BobtheTrain  Offline
Charter Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,736
Renfrewshire
Thank you for all your confidence. Now all you need to do is crowd fund several million dollars for my campaign.


Best Regards
Lang may yer lum reek
Re: does anyone understand the covid rules? [Re: howard] #662345
15/09/20 12:26 PM
15/09/20 12:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,571
Mandello del Lario
Gambalunga Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
Gambalunga  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,571
Mandello del Lario
Peter. Of course some particles will get past your bandana when you sneeze but it will limit the number of droplets that pass and hopefully reduce the chances of you infecting someone. I repeat that the simple masks are not, and never have been considered personal protection but are used to limit (if properly worn) the possibility of passing bacteria etc to others.

As you quite rightly point out personal protection requires a properly fitted N95 mask or better. Those with valves for exhalation (mainly used in industrial environments) will give even less protection for others than a simple mask or bandana. Those without valves will no doubt give better protection for others than a simple surgical mask.

At the end of the day you can't ask everyone to spend the money to buy and keep changing the expensive N95 masks, there would not be enough available anyway. In Italy a law was introduced to stop profiteering on surgical masks and they are now readily available at 50 cents each.

It is all about risk reduction, not absolute prevention.

There are plenty of well informed studies on the subject. You might like to read Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus



Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: does anyone understand the covid rules? [Re: howard] #662346
15/09/20 12:28 PM
15/09/20 12:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,314
West Paris, France
pandy Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
pandy  Offline
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,314
West Paris, France
That’s great Peter, but what do you think of the prospects of President Bob ?


Giles. Mogless in Paris.
Re: does anyone understand the covid rules? [Re: howard] #662348
15/09/20 12:37 PM
15/09/20 12:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,163
Aberdeenshire
Image Offline
Has a lot to Say!
Image  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,163
Aberdeenshire
Personally I think Bob has a Lincoln-esque look .... a stovepipe hat and a black suit and I reckon he could pick up a wedge of the rural vote .... might be worth cutting back on his theatre attendance though! smile

K

Re: does anyone understand the covid rules? [Re: howard] #662360
15/09/20 01:58 PM
15/09/20 01:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,155
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Needs to Get Out More!
Hamwich  Offline
Needs to Get Out More!

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,155
Gloucestershire, UK
I see that apparently in Indonesia when people are caught not wearing masks in situations where it is required, the punishment is that they are made to dig the graves of people who have died from C19.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
Re: does anyone understand the covid rules? [Re: howard] #662364
15/09/20 02:49 PM
15/09/20 02:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,199
Lincolnshire uk
H
HJP Offline
Has a lot to Say!
HJP  Offline
Has a lot to Say!
H

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,199
Lincolnshire uk
Seeing as less than 9000 people have died in Indonesia out of a population of 270,000,000 it doesn't seem they'll have much digging to do ...


Hugh
Re: does anyone understand the covid rules? [Re: HJP] #662367
15/09/20 03:15 PM
15/09/20 03:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,155
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Needs to Get Out More!
Hamwich  Offline
Needs to Get Out More!

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,155
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by HJP
Seeing as less than 9000 people have died in Indonesia out of a population of 270,000,000 it doesn't seem they'll have much digging to do ...


But apparently on East Java they've only got 3 gravediggers available.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/14/anti-maskers-forced-to-dig-graves-for-covid-19-victims-in-indonesia/


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
Re: does anyone understand the covid rules? [Re: howard] #662389
15/09/20 04:50 PM
15/09/20 04:50 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,311
Llanelli
sospan Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
sospan  Offline
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,311
Llanelli
A mask is part of a system for limiting spread. It is not perfect and has limitations but does add extra limitations when used in conjunction with social distancing and group congregating.
So, which social distance is better? 2m, 1m ?
Limiting contacts outside a bubble.
No mask, no distancing, no limiting contacts =risk level 1, a base level with highest risk.
Adding each of the 3 factors changes the risk level to a lower one.
They are cumulative so all 3 give a lower risk level. Removing any increases the risk level.
It all boils down to risk management in the end. We will not get a risk free scenario? In trying to protect a whole population it is wrong to assume total protection is feasible as the requirements for PPE, isolation, ignoring common sense instructions will never be achieved.
We can argue about the mask types ad infinitum but in practice it is the readily available ones that will form the risk level factor.
We are in for a long haul unfortunately.
As for the stats...bloody hell, what a load of poor info.
Negligible testing in the early days and Covid being wrongly used as a death cause.
Higher testing frequency now so NUMBERS of positives would be higher anyway and wrongly dangerous to compare to earlier results. We are not comparing like with like. Until we gat a stable testing regime then the variations in it compromises comparisons, an apples versus pears comparison.


Red Plus8
Re: does anyone understand the covid rules? [Re: sospan] #662393
15/09/20 05:01 PM
15/09/20 05:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,155
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Needs to Get Out More!
Hamwich  Offline
Needs to Get Out More!

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,155
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by sospan
A mask is part of a system for limiting spread. It is not perfect and has limitations but does add extra limitations when used in conjunction with social distancing and group congregating.
So, which social distance is better? 2m, 1m ?
Limiting contacts outside a bubble.
No mask, no distancing, no limiting contacts =risk level 1, a base level with highest risk.
Adding each of the 3 factors changes the risk level to a lower one.
They are cumulative so all 3 give a lower risk level. Removing any increases the risk level.
It all boils down to risk management in the end. We will not get a risk free scenario? In trying to protect a whole population it is wrong to assume total protection is feasible as the requirements for PPE, isolation, ignoring common sense instructions will never be achieved.
We can argue about the mask types ad infinitum but in practice it is the readily available ones that will form the risk level factor.
We are in for a long haul unfortunately.
As for the stats...bloody hell, what a load of poor info.
Negligible testing in the early days and Covid being wrongly used as a death cause.
Higher testing frequency now so NUMBERS of positives would be higher anyway and wrongly dangerous to compare to earlier results. We are not comparing like with like. Until we gat a stable testing regime then the variations in it compromises comparisons, an apples versus pears comparison.



+1 Good post.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
Re: does anyone understand the covid rules? [Re: howard] #662400
15/09/20 05:18 PM
15/09/20 05:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,428
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
Charter Member
Heinz  Offline
Charter Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,428
Köln Germany
A prime example of how you can really do everything wrong. Sturgis Biker Festival in South Dakota, it is estimated that about 240.000 of 450.000 people were infected. Masks...? What is this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...ked-266000-coronavirus-cases-study-says/


'14 4/4 graphite grey
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