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Running old cars into the future..? #664665
28/09/20 11:25 AM
28/09/20 11:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,426
L
Luddite Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
Luddite  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
L

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,426
As one who is more comfortable with old technology than new in many instances, I guess I am a selective Luddite and have been so for quite some time, however I suspect that I may becoming less reluctant to move with the times.when I think of the possible increasing difficulties in relation to keeping old ICE technology on the road for rarely used fun transport...Thinking bio-fuel as being the only one available as the next step, and it`s possible effects of which there seem to be a few..?

Other than the above, James May`s extended advert for his rather attractive Ferrari involves a bit of think update, which may just interest those like me who are of a certain age who are holding on to vestiges of past values..?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvpNY5Sv3l4

Re: Running old cars into the future..? [Re: Luddite] #664716
28/09/20 05:59 PM
28/09/20 05:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,366
Somerset, UK
P
PaulJ Offline
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PaulJ  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Somerset, UK
Having watched James Mays little clip, I do agree with him, classic cars are just tired, old, slow cars, which is why we all run modern classics that are not tired, old or slow, but hark back to the past we knew as kids. This is also why there is a huge trade in modernising old motors. Frankly, who want old, unreliable, slow badly braked stuff from the '50's, 60's, 70's, and even the 80's?


Paul
[Beginning to get the best out of the ARP4]
Re: Running old cars into the future..? [Re: Luddite] #664719
28/09/20 06:12 PM
28/09/20 06:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,970
howard Offline
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howard  Offline
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Posts: 4,970
Do you really think that his Ferrari 308 isnt a great deal faster A to B than your ARP4 Paul?

I have no doubt that we will still be able to run older cars withing out lifetimes, at least from the point of view of the fuel. How we will keep electronified engines going is a different matter - just think how fast computers progress and how soon their op systems become out of date and unserviceable. Then think of ECUs. I am rather more concerned about my more modern Ferrari and your ARP4 than James old carburetted 308. Or to put it another way, an old E type is far more likely to be running in 30 years time than a modern F type.

All IMO of course.

Re: Running old cars into the future..? [Re: PaulJ] #664723
28/09/20 06:23 PM
28/09/20 06:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,905
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Offline
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South Yorkshire
Originally Posted by PaulJ
Having watched James Mays little clip, I do agree with him, classic cars are just tired, old, slow cars, which is why we all run modern classics that are not tired, old or slow, but hark back to the past we knew as kids. This is also why there is a huge trade in modernising old motors. Frankly, who want old, unreliable, slow badly braked stuff from the '50's, 60's, 70's, and even the 80's?


Well Paul, so far the market remains strong for older stuff, which even I wouldn't touch. I suspect that over time, most worthwhile classics will get modernised, but I also think that there will always be people around who have the skills to repair and replace ECUs. The very people who design and build ECUs may find it hard to resist a growing market for replacement units.

It won't be cheap though.

Oh and in 30 years I'll be 97 Howard.


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) AR Plus 4
Re: Running old cars into the future..? [Re: DaveW] #664726
28/09/20 06:32 PM
28/09/20 06:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,970
howard Offline
Part of the Furniture
howard  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,970
Originally Posted by DaveW
Originally Posted by PaulJ
Having watched James Mays little clip, I do agree with him, classic cars are just tired, old, slow cars, which is why we all run modern classics that are not tired, old or slow, but hark back to the past we knew as kids. This is also why there is a huge trade in modernising old motors. Frankly, who want old, unreliable, slow badly braked stuff from the '50's, 60's, 70's, and even the 80's?


Well Paul, so far the market remains strong for older stuff, which even I wouldn't touch. I suspect that over time, most worthwhile classics will get modernised, but I also think that there will always be people around who have the skills to repair and replace ECUs. The very people who design and build ECUs may find it hard to resist a growing market for replacement units.

It won't be cheap though.

Oh and in 30 years I'll be 97 Howard.


And I''ll be 105. oldgit I doubt the ECU bit. Just try and get the kit to make a PC to run the early spreadsheets. And then there is the issue of the programming which the manufacturers keep to themselves, and all the sensors relays etc.

The big difference is that its possible, even easy to make all the greasy bits from craks to cylinder heads. And of course old cars are simply simpler so there is less to fail.

In reality I agree with Paul that truly modern cars like say the Boxter, are so much more competent than the old stuff of even 10 years ago. I wont even comment on the varieties of Trad. The problem is that they are also soulless. They are the motorised equivalent of a washing machine - use and then dispose. And their performance in unuseable on our traffic and scamera infested roads. So I for one find it a bit difficult to take an interest in modern cars or to make a hobby out of them. But maybe that is old man talk and the yoof of today still look at the hot hatch in the same way we used to see the Cooper S.

Last comment about the James May sales clip. He is keeping his Speciale which for yhose who dont know is simply a stripped out and price increased 458 of the 2010 ers. Its only claim to fame compared with the current cars is that its the last of the NA non turbo V8s albeit it still is flappy paddle only. That plus it was a limited run. So its already an old car, two models and a world of technology behind the current cars. Presumably he is hoping it will be worth more than the current £250 k in 20 years time. Maybe. Maybe not.

Last edited by howard; 28/09/20 06:44 PM.
Re: Running old cars into the future..? [Re: PaulJ] #664736
28/09/20 07:12 PM
28/09/20 07:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,277
Aberdeenshire
Image Offline
Has a lot to Say!
Image  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,277
Aberdeenshire
Originally Posted by PaulJ
Frankly, who want old, unreliable, slow badly braked stuff from the '50's, 60's, 70's, and even the 80's?



Me Sir! Me Sir!! <waves hand in air> ...... just PM me details and I'm sure I can dispose of the wretched things for you!!

Amongst my fleet I have something that does 0-60 in 2.5s and handles like an adhesive rollerskate (albeit only on a track) ..... I've reached a point in my vehicular journey where I'm unimpressed by pointless road performance numbers and 'sophistication' ..... I'm after that elusive fun and engagement thing (tho mrs Image has a perfectly adequate modern box for the day to day motoring chores.)


K

Re: Running old cars into the future..? [Re: PaulJ] #664751
28/09/20 09:40 PM
28/09/20 09:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,650
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
+8Rich  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,650
Devonshire
Originally Posted by PaulJ
Having watched James Mays little clip, I do agree with him, classic cars are just tired, old, slow cars, which is why we all run modern classics that are not tired, old or slow, but hark back to the past we knew as kids. This is also why there is a huge trade in modernising old motors. Frankly, who want old, unreliable, slow badly braked stuff from the '50's, 60's, 70's, and even the 80's?

I agree with you Paul but I have noticed that 2 TM Roadster owners have sold them and taken on 50's cars in preference so they do exist.

I would make an exception though for The Beast of Turin or a Napier Railton laugh2 my dream cars..


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1994 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Running old cars into the future..? [Re: Luddite] #664757
28/09/20 11:06 PM
28/09/20 11:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 559
M
mph Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
mph  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
M

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 559
My tired, old, slow classic hasn't let me down once in fifteen years of ownership and several European jaunts wink

I'd love a classic saloon to compliment it but don't have the storage space at the moment. A Rover P5 perhaps.

I get more enjoyment from owning and driving classic cars than anything modern I've owned in the last few years.

Re: Running old cars into the future..? [Re: Luddite] #664771
29/09/20 07:37 AM
29/09/20 07:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 529
Reading
Rob Thornton Offline
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Rob Thornton  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 529
Reading
I think that the real test regarding the longevity of the appreciation and maintenance of classic cars and indeed any object with lifespan is how sustainable they are in a world with depleting, self-defeating or downright dangerous resources.

My gut feeling when watching James May was that he was trying to find a reason to explain the fact that he had simply 'gone off' the car. In effect, he was admitting that he wasn't enjoying it anymore and was, in a way, regarding it as an object of fashion. Perhaps deep down he didn't really like it in the first pace!

I think enjoyment of a possession is more about fulfilment and appreciation rather than likes and dislikes or stimulation and sometimes this is hard work. Appreciating why things have to change and understanding why things are as they are helps us to enjoy all eras of design equally but keeping up with fashion is always doomed.

So far as the classic car 'movement' is concerned the biggest snag looming is suitable fuel availability rather than lack of interest and in this respect I see a real shift of attitudes amongst those who want to drive their machines rather than treating them as museum pieces. This shift will see the acceptance of substitute power sources and drivetrains in order to keep our pride and joys on the road.


Rob T
2001 Royal Ivory Plus 8
Re: Running old cars into the future..? [Re: Luddite] #664776
29/09/20 07:53 AM
29/09/20 07:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,239
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline
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Richard Wood  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,239
East Harling, Norfolk UK
That view could work in reverse Rob with Classic owner's simply using lack of availability of suitable fuel to just keep their cars as museum pieces rather than butchering them with electric conversions. Call me naive but I believe some form of petrol will be around, maybe at a cost, for 20 years or more. Consequently although aware I'm not too worried during my lifetime.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
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