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Re: Workshop Note: LED Headlamps [Re: Hamwich] #668502
23/10/20 07:00 AM
23/10/20 07:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,117
Aberdeenshire
Gordon D Offline
Has a lot to Say!
Gordon D  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,117
Aberdeenshire
Originally Posted by Hamwich


40 years ago my father in law taught me how to use a chain saw safely. He knew what he was doing, he was MD of the UK's only chainsaw manufacturer at the time (Danarm). He took a very dim view of safety equipment. He felt that knowing that the slightest error could cause horrible injury or death was the best way to avoid becoming blasé about their use. I still don't use any safety kit today when using a chain saw.





That's true I suppose, I never had any formal training with a chainsaw and never wore PPE, then whilst cutting down some conifer hedge a gust of wind blew the windbreak fabric on the fence onto the back of the blade which then flipped back and smacked me in the forehead, chain still spinning.

I was told had it hit any soft tissue I would have been more seriously injured than I was.

Now I do wear PPE, but am also far more aware of what can happen outside my control.


Gordon Duguid
2014 plus 4, Montreal blue.
Re: Workshop Note: LED Headlamps [Re: Gordon D] #668520
23/10/20 08:38 AM
23/10/20 08:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,891
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Online content
Scruffy Oik
Hamwich  Online Content
Scruffy Oik
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,891
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by Gordon D
That's true I suppose, I never had any formal training with a chainsaw and never wore PPE, then whilst cutting down some conifer hedge a gust of wind blew the windbreak fabric on the fence onto the back of the blade which then flipped back and smacked me in the forehead, chain still spinning.

I was told had it hit any soft tissue I would have been more seriously injured than I was.

Now I do wear PPE, but am also far more aware of what can happen outside my control.



Phew! I'm glad you weren't seriously hurt. I have an enormously well-developed sense of my own self-preservation and consequently am extremely risk-averse, so I don't use a conventional chainsaw in anything other than perfect conditions - certainly not when it's windy or wet.

For stuff like hedges and higher stuff I use a pole trimmer (I call it a 'chainsaw on a stick') which gets the blade a safe distance away from me. For anything aerial, I get the professionals in. I know my limits and wouldn't dream of using a chainsaw without both feet on the ground on extremely stable footing.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
Re: Workshop Note: LED Headlamps [Re: RobCol] #668526
23/10/20 09:06 AM
23/10/20 09:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 451
Bergen, Norway
R
Robbie Mathisen Offline
Learner Plates Off!
Robbie Mathisen  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
R

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 451
Bergen, Norway
Originally Posted by RobCol

For what its worth Robbie, Norway has the safest roads in the world with a death rate of 3 persons per 100,000 population.

And I was wrong there are 31 million cars on the road in the UK but over 40 million vehicles in 2020 compared to 1 million vehicles in 1930

Well, that's nice to know. Norway is also a society of rules, regulations and control with a lot of concern about safety, including traffic: vehicles, drivers and roads. I suspect there is a connection there... With 39 years of neurosurgery I have seen (and studied) my share of consequences of accidents, road and others - with and without protective and safety gear. For me, the choice is simple. Seems like we agree on the matter.


Robbie the Norseman
2004 V6 Roadster
Sherwood green
Re: Workshop Note: LED Headlamps [Re: Robbie Mathisen] #668527
23/10/20 09:16 AM
23/10/20 09:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 880
Lancashire
RobCol Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
RobCol  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 880
Lancashire
Originally Posted by Robbie Mathisen
Originally Posted by RobCol

For what its worth Robbie, Norway has the safest roads in the world with a death rate of 3 persons per 100,000 population.

And I was wrong there are 31 million cars on the road in the UK but over 40 million vehicles in 2020 compared to 1 million vehicles in 1930

Well, that's nice to know. Norway is also a society of rules, regulations and control with a lot of concern about safety, including traffic: vehicles, drivers and roads. I suspect there is a connection there... With 39 years of neurosurgery I have seen (and studied) my share of consequences of accidents, road and others - with and without protective and safety gear. For me, the choice is simple. Seems like we agree on the matter.


Yes I'm with you on that Robbie.

We both live where the roads are comparatively safe, and without seeing statistics just seeing the standards of driving in other countries makes me realise we are better off than most.


Rob

4/4 Sport Grey

Re: Workshop Note: LED Headlamps [Re: Robbie Mathisen] #668535
23/10/20 09:44 AM
23/10/20 09:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,891
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Online content
Scruffy Oik
Hamwich  Online Content
Scruffy Oik
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,891
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by Robbie Mathisen

Exactly. That finishes the discussion for my part. I sincerly hope the airline companies do not adapt the philosophy of "the fewer safety devices and routines, the safer the conduct and less accidents". I rest my case.


I really hope that nobody seriously thinks that a lack of safety devices makes things safer, I would hope that everyone understood that my point about car brake lights and steering wheel spikes was intended to show the idiocy of such an approach.

Of course safety devices, processes, and equipment have been of enormous benefit and no-one in their right mind would argue against them.

Risk compensation theory underlines the need for more safety, not less. If people naturally tend to take on more risk because they feel safe, then we need to mitigate that riskier behaviour, not encourage it.

We are witnessing this in the current pandemic, with cases rising because people are thinking it won't happen to them.

BTW, interesting factoid about safety. Before I retired, I worked as a consultant to EDF Energy, who run the nuclear power staton fleet. Needless to say, they take safety EXTREMELY seriously, even us office staff were expected to scrupulously observe safety procedures, even things like hanging a jacket on the back of a chair were banned, and holding onto handrails when going up or down stairs was mandatory. Our safety office would publish and circulate reports of any safety-related incident and we were expected to discuss it, and everyone had the power to call out and stop anyactivity if they observed a breach of safety rules.

Anyway, one thing we were always warned about was losing focus. Apparently a common cause of accident was an operative finishing a job, turning round, and tripping over their toolbox. The thinking was that they lost concentration once the job was complete. Something to bear in mind for us home mechanocs - you can't relax until all the tools are put away and the worksite is fully cleared down.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
Re: Workshop Note: LED Headlamps [Re: Hamwich] #668545
23/10/20 10:25 AM
23/10/20 10:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 451
Bergen, Norway
R
Robbie Mathisen Offline
Learner Plates Off!
Robbie Mathisen  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
R

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 451
Bergen, Norway
Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by Robbie Mathisen

Exactly. That finishes the discussion for my part. I sincerly hope the airline companies do not adapt the philosophy of "the fewer safety devices and routines, the safer the conduct and less accidents". I rest my case.


I really hope that nobody seriously thinks that a lack of safety devices makes things safer, I would hope that everyone understood that my point about car brake lights and steering wheel spikes was intended to show the idiocy of such an approach.

Of course safety devices, processes, and equipment have been of enormous benefit and no-one in their right mind would argue against them.

Risk compensation theory underlines the need for more safety, not less. If people naturally tend to take on more risk because they feel safe, then we need to mitigate that riskier behaviour, not encourage it.

We are witnessing this in the current pandemic, with cases rising because people are thinking it won't happen to them.

BTW, interesting factoid about safety. Before I retired, I worked as a consultant to EDF Energy, who run the nuclear power staton fleet. Needless to say, they take safety EXTREMELY seriously, even us office staff were expected to scrupulously observe safety procedures, even things like hanging a jacket on the back of a chair were banned, and holding onto handrails when going up or down stairs was mandatory. Our safety office would publish and circulate reports of any safety-related incident and we were expected to discuss it, and everyone had the power to call out and stop anyactivity if they observed a breach of safety rules.

Anyway, one thing we were always warned about was losing focus. Apparently a common cause of accident was an operative finishing a job, turning round, and tripping over their toolbox. The thinking was that they lost concentration once the job was complete. Something to bear in mind for us home mechanocs - you can't relax until all the tools are put away and the worksite is fully cleared down.

Ah, there is hope after all. If anybody is interested, I can recommend this book: https://www.nap.edu/catalog/9728/to-err-is-human-building-a-safer-health-system. It is directed towards health care, but has a lot of history, examples, statistics, research and principles that has general application. Now time for tea, then buckle up (mandatory) seat belt, switch on (mandatory) DRLs and go for an afternoon drive in Lady Marion.Later I might go sailing with a friend, wearing a (mandatory) life jacket when on deck or inthe cockpit. Tonight an excercise trip on my bicycle, having (mandatory) lights front and rear. I live happily with that.
Regards to you all!
Cheers,
Robbie


Robbie the Norseman
2004 V6 Roadster
Sherwood green
Re: Workshop Note: LED Headlamps [Re: Hamwich] #668547
23/10/20 10:41 AM
23/10/20 10:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,117
Aberdeenshire
Gordon D Offline
Has a lot to Say!
Gordon D  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,117
Aberdeenshire
Originally Posted by Hamwich


For stuff like hedges and higher stuff I use a pole trimmer (I call it a 'chainsaw on a stick') which gets the blade a safe distance away from me. For anything aerial, I get the professionals in. I know my limits and wouldn't dream of using a chainsaw without both feet on the ground on extremely stable footing.

Yip, bought one of them since my accident as well. Isn't hind sight a wonderful thing. I also left the pint or so of dried blood on the chain bar as a reminder not to be so stupid in future ☺️


Gordon Duguid
2014 plus 4, Montreal blue.
Re: Workshop Note: LED Headlamps [Re: DaveW] #668553
23/10/20 11:02 AM
23/10/20 11:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 4,620
Northants, UK
TBM Offline
Part of the Furniture
TBM  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 4,620
Northants, UK
And tomorrow morning I'll cock a leg over my 155bhp bike. No DRL, no ABS, no Traction Control, no Idiot lights (removed) and have a blast out with my mates. No other safety equipment mandated bar my £25 'Piss Pot' helmet.

I will also wear jeans, jacket and gloves, because it'll be cold and it will keep me warm and safer. However I am very pleased that (currently) this is my choice rather than by compulsion.

Ultimately, we all have different views on how much risk we want to accept in our lives, but state control takes away that freedom of choice from all of us.

As I said before, constantly mandating for stupidity is a race to the bottom, and we could ultimately lose the things we enjoy. No ABS/Traction Control/Air Bags/Lane assist on your Morgan? Sorry, you can't use them on the road.......


1972 4/4 4 seater - 3G Morganeer
Too many ratty motorbikes
Re: Workshop Note: LED Headlamps [Re: DaveW] #668558
23/10/20 11:49 AM
23/10/20 11:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 3,232
Aberdeenshire
Image Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
Image  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 3,232
Aberdeenshire
"No-one in their right mind would argue against them"


Here, hold my beer!! smile

As is usual in these conversations we end up conflating two issues .... H&S at work and personal risk acceptance.

The Health and Safety at Work Act is a fine thing and approproate when dealing with the welfare of 'captive' audiences like employees and customers .... it prevents businesses reverting to the 'Dark Satanic Mills' mindset in order to maximise profit to the detriment of their workforce's health and wellbeing (maybe not so much in Leicester or Bradford but that's another story smile )

It doesn't apply to individuals going about their leisure activities ...there are certain areas of life like driving etc where some infringement on personal choice is deemed acceptable ....usually when using machinery in a public setting.

This is quite limited .... and so it should be ...if H&S at W criteria were to be applied to private life then you can kiss goodbye to rock-climbing, mountain walking, horse-riding, motorcycling, surfing, skiing.... the list would be endless .... no more Morgans or vintage cars as their safety equipment is sub-optimal .... we'd all be in the same 2 ton SUVs from whichever manufacturer faked the crash-test most convincingly.

As it is, in our private lives we still very largely operate on the basis of adults making their own decisions ..... does this always end well? ... nope!. But the alternative is such a proscribed half life of reduced experience that we should run a mile (or maybe not run in case we trip smile ) from more and more safety legislation in areas where it affects no-one but ourselves.

K

Ps ... before someone brings up the 'burden to the NHS' argument .... the biggest burden on the NHS is from the couch and the kitchen .... not the horse-riders, surfers etc etc ..... 'safe' idleness and inaction rather than an active, if slightly more risky, life.

After all, you can always exercise your adult choice and don full body armour to open a can of soup if you wish .... just don't make me do it


Re: Workshop Note: LED Headlamps [Re: Robbie Mathisen] #668650
23/10/20 06:39 PM
23/10/20 06:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,281
Northern Capital of Cool
CooperMan Offline
Just barreling along
CooperMan  Offline
Just barreling along
Charter Member

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,281
Northern Capital of Cool
Originally Posted by Robbie Mathisen
Originally Posted by RobCol

For what its worth Robbie, Norway has the safest roads in the world with a death rate of 3 persons per 100,000 population.

And I was wrong there are 31 million cars on the road in the UK but over 40 million vehicles in 2020 compared to 1 million vehicles in 1930

Well, that's nice to know. Norway is also a society of rules, regulations and control with a lot of concern about safety, including traffic: vehicles, drivers and roads. I suspect there is a connection there... With 39 years of neurosurgery I have seen (and studied) my share of consequences of accidents, road and others - with and without protective and safety gear. For me, the choice is simple. Seems like we agree on the matter.

Robbie, Neurosurgeon eh notworthy one saved my life 10 years ago


Jon M
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