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leccy cars #669188
26/10/20 04:37 PM
26/10/20 04:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,965
howard Offline OP
Part of the Furniture
howard  Offline OP
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,965
Her's a thought :

But if a (leccy) car crashes and some of those cells are damaged, the chemicals inside can generate huge of amounts of heat, damaging and igniting other cells.
"An electric vehicle will burn for much longer than an internal combustion vehicle. They give off potentially explosive and toxic fumes. They can reignite hours, days or weeks after the incident," says Prof Christensen.

Apparently just puncturing a Li Ion battery can cause it to burn. I did try abusing one when it failed in my tablet, but I couldnt get it to do anything interesting even with a dead short.

Re: leccy cars [Re: howard] #669190
26/10/20 04:59 PM
26/10/20 04:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,828
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,828
Hampshire
I will see if I can find the little devil that caused a huge problem for us. If I can I will post the images, not pretty.

iPad sent back "under warranty" for repair. It was run over by a car and then another before being posted to us. After the second impact it had started to burn and did so for a couple of hours despite their efforts. The first attempt was to spray it with a water based fire extinguisher which only made it more angry. They then covered it in foam which made no difference as it was a chemical fire and very very hot. They had to replace the floor tiles where it let go. We got it through DHL. Damn thing started to burn again in the office but we have procedures for this (a large cast metal bin with a heavy lid and thick gloves) thank heavens.

If you ask a local fireman what they do when approaching a Tesla the answer will likely be - don't, call the specialist team and get everyone back 30 feet or more. Also don't go near the location afterwards until it has been professionally cleaned as the residue is poisonous.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200901112208.htm (I figure this would be a better source than the daily mail who might be prone to blow things up a bit - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...-tackle-enormous-Tesla-Model-S-fire.html)

Don't poke your smartthingy with sharp pointy things.


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: leccy cars [Re: howard] #669203
26/10/20 06:28 PM
26/10/20 06:28 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,138
Oxon
PaulV Offline
Has a lot to Say!
PaulV  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,138
Oxon
Its why EVs have armoured batteries. And higher insurance groups (eg Kia E-Niro = 29, Kia Sportage = 15-23).

Despite the "danger" the remote control model world has been crashing these batteries into the ground for 15 years. Sure, sometimes they cause a fire. But not very often...

eg I have no fear to use Li batteries in my camera, laptop, ... and as the main battery for my Morgan.


M3W5sp 2015, MSCC, MTWC, Oxon UK
Re: leccy cars [Re: howard] #669205
26/10/20 06:50 PM
26/10/20 06:50 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,396
Llanelli
sospan Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
sospan  Offline
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,396
Llanelli
A local fireman who is a qualified electrician told me that they had special training to deal with electric cars. They may be relatively low voltage but it is the amps that kill. Also, F1 crews have special procedures and PPE. You regularly see them wearing it and drivers have been told to jump off the car so as to avoid creating a circuit by earthing.
Alternatives to Li batteries are being developed, replacing the electrolyte layers with solid state materials. I watched a film of a US engineer doing the development. He made a “battery cell” from aluminium foil and his electrolyte layer (solid), connected it up to a bulb. He then used scissors to keep cutting it up to a small size, perfectly safe and the bulb stayed lit.
If you search youtube you can find examples of batteries being damaged to create a flare up.

Last edited by sospan; 26/10/20 06:51 PM.

Red Plus8
Re: leccy cars [Re: howard] #669218
26/10/20 07:54 PM
26/10/20 07:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 880
Lampeter, Wales
Jon G4LJW Online content
Talk Morgan Regular
Jon G4LJW  Online Content
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 880
Lampeter, Wales
You can get a special bag to contain iPad/tablet fires:

https://www.sportys.com/tablet-fire-containment-bag.html

Re: leccy cars [Re: howard] #669219
26/10/20 07:54 PM
26/10/20 07:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 378
Hampton Hill, Middx.
DavidR Offline
Learner Plates Off!
DavidR  Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 378
Hampton Hill, Middx.
Interesting and timely have just read this Problem batteries

Dangerous thingies, these.


David
Aero S4
Re: leccy cars [Re: howard] #669227
26/10/20 09:19 PM
26/10/20 09:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,202
Suffolk
John V6 Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
John V6  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,202
Suffolk
Yes they. Most ICE car fires are electrical


JohnV6
2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle"
Re: leccy cars [Re: howard] #669229
26/10/20 09:25 PM
26/10/20 09:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,201
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
Richard Wood  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,201
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Not a fan of battery powered EV's but I thought the thermal runaway and crash resistance of Li-Ion batteries had already largely been addressed, in the latest models at least [Linked Image]

https://insideevs.com/news/363109/tesla-model-3-battery-fire-resistance/


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: leccy cars [Re: howard] #669232
26/10/20 09:41 PM
26/10/20 09:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,828
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,828
Hampshire
It's like the early learning stage of any technology.

Quality issues - https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/bmw-recalls-all-plug-hybrid-models-due-battery-fire-risk

Yes the work that is going into the installation and protection of them is very sensible and skilled.

I know that one vendor is running extensive training of their dealers to handle the hybrid cars as new risks appear. The same was true when petrol replaced the horse.


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: leccy cars [Re: howard] #669239
26/10/20 10:13 PM
26/10/20 10:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 370
Bristol
M
MJF Offline
Learner Plates Off!
MJF  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
M

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 370
Bristol
I see that Tesla are now advertising a Model S available late 2021 which will have a range in excess of 520 miles, a sub 2 seconds 0-60 and 1100+ HP. Doesn't say what size the battery is, but it has got to be a big one.

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