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Re: Rear springs [Re: thelastgizmo] #672798
15/11/20 01:02 PM
15/11/20 01:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,832
Mandello del Lario
Gambalunga Offline
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Gambalunga  Offline
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Posts: 13,832
Mandello del Lario
Heinz and others.
Important that when the car is jacked up that the reduced height of the rebound rubbers does not allow the ends of the U bolts to touch the chassis. If you look back through the photos you will see that the thread exposed on Heinz's U bolts is shorter on the side near the chassis (I am sure Heinz has checked this).

Regarding the apparently shorter dampers when on full compression: it may be that these dampers have an internal conical rubber bump stop. I don't know about the AVO but many dampers of this type include internal bump stops.


Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: Rear springs [Re: thelastgizmo] #672808
15/11/20 01:36 PM
15/11/20 01:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,695
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
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Heinz  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,695
Köln Germany
Peter, the photo of my post from last night shows the U bolts on the lifting platform at maximum rebound deflection...with the wheels in the air. So it is safe that the u-bolts do not touch the inner edge of the chassis under all conditions. MMC has even drilled a hole at this point in the inner edge for safety. But I will not need it.
The longer U-bolts are free to move because they are placed next to this metal sheet of the chassis. They do not bump anywhere.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Rear springs [Re: Image] #672809
15/11/20 01:45 PM
15/11/20 01:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 201
Norfolk
T
thelastgizmo Offline OP
L - Learner Plates On
thelastgizmo  Offline OP
L - Learner Plates On
T

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 201
Norfolk
Originally Posted by Image
Watching this thread with interest .... perhaps we should use 'bump stops' and 'rebound stops' to avoid confusion ?

K



Yes my apologies. I meant rebound stops!

Re: Rear springs [Re: Heinz] #672857
15/11/20 04:29 PM
15/11/20 04:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 864
Northern Germany
bmgermany Offline
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bmgermany  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 864
Northern Germany
Originally Posted by Heinz
Thanks, Roger, a good advice re the damaged cable!


Advice in German for Heinz:

Das Material wird als Powerband" oder als "Selbst vulkanisierendes Isolierband" angeboten.

Viel Erfolg!


2005 4/4 1800ccm Duratec and a lot of HONDA CX500.......
Re: Rear springs [Re: thelastgizmo] #672862
15/11/20 04:49 PM
15/11/20 04:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,190
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,190
Yorkshire
Heinz, good write up. I noticed you mentioned your existing dampers are leaking (despite not looking old)

A watchpoint with AVO's is that they are not fitted with a top bumpstop on the ram, so if they become over compressed, it breaks the internal valving and they leak, I'm not sure if they do the same if extended too far, but it wouldn't surprise me

So, to others using AVO's be very careful to have a little reserve in the compressed length


Jon M
Re: Rear springs [Re: thelastgizmo] #672996
16/11/20 11:58 AM
16/11/20 11:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,510
L
Luddite Offline
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Luddite  Offline
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L

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,510
The idea that a shocker fitted to a Trad might also act as a bump stop seems far less than ideal. I can understand that there may have been quality issues relative to leaf springs ageing "prematurely" and thus exacerbating the already minimal suspension travel in a Trad, perhaps even more so in Trads with tubular shockers than the original design concept that utilised lever arms..? If the aforementioned might be the case, that would cause me to wonder if lever arms ever suffered the similar situation of them becoming involuntary bump stops...?

By the time I arrived at Morgan ownership I had passed through the natural stage of having an overwhelming desire to modify machinery, having modified much to destruction while ignoring the advice of engineers...! Fortunately I survived the process while the machines may have unduly suffered, and by the time of acquiring my Morgan I had lost that mad for modifying gene along with many of my other youthful persuits... oldgit

While typing modifications, I wonder was the tubular shocker hoop on the rear of trads, a Morgan creation or another of those that was born out of owner based ideas of improvement, just as others of the same may have ended up as accepted by the Morgan community or even ended up being adopted by the MMC..?

Re: Rear springs [Re: Luddite] #673012
16/11/20 01:44 PM
16/11/20 01:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,735
Northants, UK
TBM Offline
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TBM  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,735
Northants, UK
Originally Posted by Luddite
The idea that a shocker fitted to a Trad might also act as a bump stop seems far less than ideal. I can understand that there may have been quality issues relative to leaf springs ageing "prematurely" and thus exacerbating the already minimal suspension travel in a Trad, perhaps even more so in Trads with tubular shockers than the original design concept that utilised lever arms..? If the aforementioned might be the case, that would cause me to wonder if lever arms ever suffered the similar situation of them becoming involuntary bump stops...?


I think the damper rod bump stop is fairly common practice - Bump Stop

With the traditional 6 and 7 leaf springs of the older Morgans, there was no need for a bump stop as there wasn't enough travel to warrant one. Once you fit the lighter 4 leaf springs, then there is more need for one. PJB sketched up a design for me using Alfa105 progressive bumpstops and they were really easy to knock up and fit.

[Linked Image]


1972 4/4 4 seater - 3G Morganeer
Too many ratty motorbikes
Re: Rear springs [Re: thelastgizmo] #673046
16/11/20 03:24 PM
16/11/20 03:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,510
L
Luddite Offline
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,510
Thanks for the heads up TBM, but that like many of the suggestions for the Trad is an aftermarket option. My thinking was directly related to any tubular shocker fitted to a trad.

As for the hoop mounted mod on the pic you sent, from a dull memory my 1955 TR2 had a hoop just like that to limit upward axle travel, and given the dimensions of the "stop" rubber in the pic it seems almost large enough to be considered as a spring assistor, the likes of which were marketed many years ago as a "modification" as a quick and cheaper fix for sagging springs, the down side was that it transferred the bump/suspension forces to a location perhaps not designed to take that degree of loading..?

Re: Rear springs [Re: thelastgizmo] #673061
16/11/20 04:04 PM
16/11/20 04:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,735
Northants, UK
TBM Offline
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Posts: 2,735
Northants, UK
Spax shocks definitely have a bump stop fitted - I was led to believe that AVO don't but someone recently said they had them as well. Not sure what OEM shocks Morgan used on their later trads, but they may also have built in bump stops on their damper rods.

There is about a 25mm gap between the axle and bump stop when the Mog is fully loaded. As I said, they were recommend/designed by Peter Ballard whose knowledge on suspension matters far outweighs mine smile smile


1972 4/4 4 seater - 3G Morganeer
Too many ratty motorbikes
Re: Rear springs [Re: thelastgizmo] #673084
16/11/20 05:23 PM
16/11/20 05:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,510
L
Luddite Offline
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Luddite  Offline
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L

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,510
Thanks for taking the time to reply TBM. Not for a second do I doubt Peter`s knowledge of suspension design.

I understand that many tubular damper suspension designs have bump stops built in. Trying not to come across as pedantic, I was enquiring if any tubular shocker fitted by MMC in a Trad was designed to also perform as a bump stop..?

My question can be taken a stage further to ask if any shocker manufacturer (AVO ?) has intended their shocker design to be used in a Trad Morgan to also perform a bump stop function...?

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