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Re: 99 Octane Fuel (RON) - worth it?
[Re: RedThree]
#674292
23/11/20 08:19 AM
23/11/20 08:19 AM
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 297 Bergen, Norway
Robbie Mathisen
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 297
Bergen, Norway
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"The higher compression rate the engine has, the higher octane number is needed" is definitely part of the story, the broader part of the story is that the more prone to detonation an engine is, the higher the octane of fuel you want to put in it. A relatively low performance, low compression engine with a poor combustion chamber design might well need higher octane fuel than a much higher performance engine with better chamber design and cooling. In some engines higher octane fuel does give more power and in some engines it might just reduce the chance of it going boom! Well, if the thread starter's MW3 does not suffer from pre-ignition/detonation and has a modern engine with knock sensor set up for 96, I cannot see any benefit in putting in anything higher - why try to fix a problem you do not have. But then there is the ethanol issue. As far as I know 96 octane has 5% ethanol mixed in, whereas 98 has zero. True, ethanol can act as a solvent and be detrimental to plastics, rubber, gaskets and so forth. But I do not think this applies to a modern engine. I suppose the engineers are very well aware of what is put into the tanks. On older cars or veterans it might be an issue though. And ethanol is hygroscopic, true. To this day I have never heard of a problem related to (these obviously small amounts of) water in the fuel, but thinking about it, I am considering filling the tank with 98 for winter storage but stick to the specified 96 for everyday use.
Robbie the Norseman 2004 V6 Roadster Sherwood green
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Re: 99 Octane Fuel (RON) - worth it?
[Re: IMHO]
#674304
23/11/20 09:25 AM
23/11/20 09:25 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,787 London
MOG 615
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,787
London
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In older times the compression ratio almost dictated the the grade of fuel needed. In the 60/70/80s I used to run a TR engine in my race +4 at 12.5:1 and it demanded 5 Star (101 RON). However engine management systems have been transformed over the last decades to computor control of ignition and fuelling so the fuel demand can be very different
I think that all European vehicles from the last 20 years must be capable of running on 95 RON unleaded, not sure of the regulation but no doubt could find it given a few days of searching!
Most newer vehicles will have knock sensors (as pointed out above) and these were specified to ensure that "high-speed knock" (which is different to the "pinking" or "pinging" which occurs at lower engine speeds) did not not destroy the engine. This was a particular problem in Germany when cars were held at high speeds for long periods on the autobahn (especially prevalent in southern Germany on the A8)
However some performance engine manufactures have used the knock sensors to optimise engine performance based on the higher octane fuels (97/98/99RON) and thus extract more performance from the unit. So if you have such an engine in your vehicle, and are after the last drop of performance, then the higher octane fuels can make sense. For the rest of us, we are potentially wasting money by purchasing the extra octane.
Andy G 1999 +8 , Indigo Blue. Ex-John McKecknie/Mike Duncan 1955 +4 racer.
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Re: 99 Octane Fuel (RON) - worth it?
[Re: IMHO]
#674310
23/11/20 09:55 AM
23/11/20 09:55 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,574 Llanelli
sospan
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,574
Llanelli
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Not an M3W but I find the 99octane (usually V-Power) does seem to improve things. Plus8, Rover V8 with Gems management. I was occasionally getting a random intermittent misfire fault. Checked all ignition and as a final test changed to the 99 from 95. It worked. I don’t feel any performance/ power improvement. Not doing a high mileage means extra cost is not an issue. I put 95 octane in if no 99 is available. I think the benefits do vary with engine type. A mate has tried it on an outboard motor and spotted less vibration when used. As an analogy I used to commute 60 miles each way, mainly motorway. Had a Focus turbo diesel. I experimented with Millers additive ( advertised as an octane booster). It worked. Using the recommended dosage from the bottle I got enough extra mpg to save about £24 per bottle on fuel cost (a few tankfulls per bottle). Bottle cost about £12 and extra mpg gave about £36 in fuel saving. A mate tried it on his Golf but no difference. It could be worth giving the 99 octane a try over an extended period and take notes before and after. Compare mpg, how engine runs, similar mileage/route to get a decent comparison by eliminating variables.
Red Plus8
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Re: 99 Octane Fuel (RON) - worth it?
[Re: IMHO]
#674317
23/11/20 11:49 AM
23/11/20 11:49 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 465 Cambridge UK
Stephen888
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 465
Cambridge UK
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I run my +8 (John Eales engine) on 97/98/99 I buy it mostly at Supermarkets where it is a lot cheaper than V power. Have bought 102 a few times in Germany and Austria in recent years. Also my MB GLE43 specifies 98.
1980 +8 Blue ---------------- Stephen
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Re: 99 Octane Fuel (RON) - worth it?
[Re: rockabilly john]
#674319
23/11/20 12:17 PM
23/11/20 12:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,537 United Kingdom, Lincolnshire
planenut
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,537
United Kingdom, Lincolnshire
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Is there a mention of the S&S manual recommending 100 ron?
The S&S manual says to use, " a minimum octane rating of 91. Do not use fuel additives and avoid using methanol blended fuels. Ethanol blends of up to 20% may be used. Do not use E85 fuel in your S&S engine." It doesn't mention what sort of 91 (RON, MON or PON?) but I assume it is PON for the USA and that is about equivalent to 95RON for Europe.
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Re: 99 Octane Fuel (RON) - worth it?
[Re: Robbie Mathisen]
#674322
23/11/20 12:38 PM
23/11/20 12:38 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 272 Hampshire, UK
IMHO
OP
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OP
Learner Plates Off!
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 272
Hampshire, UK
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"The higher compression rate the engine has, the higher octane number is needed" is definitely part of the story, the broader part of the story is that the more prone to detonation an engine is, the higher the octane of fuel you want to put in it. A relatively low performance, low compression engine with a poor combustion chamber design might well need higher octane fuel than a much higher performance engine with better chamber design and cooling. In some engines higher octane fuel does give more power and in some engines it might just reduce the chance of it going boom! Well, if the thread starter's MW3 does not suffer from pre-ignition/detonation and has a modern engine with knock sensor set up for 96, I cannot see any benefit in putting in anything higher - why try to fix a problem you do not have. But then there is the ethanol issue. As far as I know 96 octane has 5% ethanol mixed in, whereas 98 has zero. True, ethanol can act as a solvent and be detrimental to plastics, rubber, gaskets and so forth. But I do not think this applies to a modern engine. I suppose the engineers are very well aware of what is put into the tanks. On older cars or veterans it might be an issue though. And ethanol is hygroscopic, true. To this day I have never heard of a problem related to (these obviously small amounts of) water in the fuel, but thinking about it, I am considering filling the tank with 98 for winter storage but stick to the specified 96 for everyday use. The new Esso 99 Octane (RON) is 5% Ethanol, it has replaced the previous 97 that was available at my garage. I probably used the 97 out of habit having run classic motorcycles where I found it made a good choice. I believe the government has committed to continue the availability of E5 for the benefit of classic vehicle owners, otherwise we might all be on E10-15 by now.
M3W Brooklands (2015) Moody 41 (2013)
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Re: 99 Octane Fuel (RON) - worth it?
[Re: IMHO]
#674326
23/11/20 01:34 PM
23/11/20 01:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,418 New River Valley, VA
rcmatt
Has a lot to Say!
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Has a lot to Say!
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,418
New River Valley, VA
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Somehow people always translate higher octane equals more power.
That is not true.
Octane is simply a measurement that indicates how quickly the petrol will ignite. Higher octane ignites slower than lower octane. When vaporized fuel is put under pressure with ambient heat it will eventually ignite. That is how a diesel engine works. So higher compression engines need higher octane fuel or they will pre-ignite.
Now it is often the case that higher compression engines are also higher performing, or have more power. But that is because of the engine, not the octane of the fuel. If you put high octane fuel into a YUGO, you still only have a yugo.
Rodger 2018 M3W "Dreamers on the Rise" 2004 Plus 8 (wife's) old Goldwings and a couple of Harleys
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