Click here to return to the home page.
Morgan 3 Wheeler
Who's Online Now
8 registered members (Image, +8Rich, The Austrian, Craig Jezz, M3W55, pandy, Jeff D, planenut), 155 guests, and 18 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
+8Rich 383
John V6 301
Alistair 167
Peter J 139
Newest Topics
Some very expensive Morgans
by JohnMat. 27/01/21 10:23 PM
Lockdown project
by BillMiller. 27/01/21 07:45 PM
nouveau membre Sud-ouest France
by Déo47. 27/01/21 05:49 PM
DeLorean: Documentary
by Fuel.inj. 27/01/21 04:53 PM
LED H4 Bulbs
by John V6. 27/01/21 12:35 PM
97 +4 boss
by John V6. 27/01/21 12:22 PM
HomerS drives a MTW
by CooperMan. 27/01/21 11:50 AM
Latest Photos
Another High Level brake light
Morgan puzzle made to order
TOK 258 drawings
Two Approaches to the Easy Up Hood Stay
Vaccine is totally safe
Newest Members
bear65, Mogster +4, JimV6, IainG, Ollie
7346 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics40,357
Posts672,576
Members7,346
Most Online1,033
Dec 28th, 2019
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Something to check #674825
26/11/20 03:41 PM
26/11/20 03:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,402
Cheshire, UK
nippymog Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
nippymog  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,402
Cheshire, UK
A few weeks ago I went for a short run , but soon was aware something was very wrong with the engine.
One cylinder was misfiring, loosing power and making a bell like clank in time with the engine.
"Oh No" I thought, this sounds expensive as I nursed it gently home, luckily only a couple of miles.
Very close to home tickover went and turning into my street the engine finally gave out completely, but in a graceful way not locking up.

Long story short, the key which secures one of the timing pulleys to the end of the cam had eaten into the pulley itself, gradually making the keyway bigger until it met itself and was barely driving the cam round, if at all, picture below. The end of the cam with the keyway was also damaged.

Thinking it could have done untold internal damage to the valve train, I quickly decided it was a job for my dealer.
I think it says a lot for the robustness of these engines that after a deep investigation only a new pulley, cam and drive belt were needed. Additionally a new valve and collar were reccomended and fitted, as they must have taken some punishment as the pulley expired.
I have just received the car back a month later, most of the time with the dealer being spent aquiring parts.
Plaudits to Oakmere Morgan for a quick diagnosis and fix once the parts were available.

So my message is , keep an eye on the timing pulleys, looking for any wear around the keyway - there should be none.
I have no idea how long this took to fail, or even why in the first place it did, which is worrying !

In the picture below the one on the right is OK , the left one is the clearly the damaged one.
It looks like the wear has started at the front ( making it more visible than if it started at the back) as there is the remains of the keyway existing at the back - but this is conjecture.

[Linked Image]

Re: Something to check [Re: nippymog] #674842
26/11/20 04:54 PM
26/11/20 04:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,903
Port Orchard, WA.
LightSpeed Online content
Talk Morgan Expert
LightSpeed  Online Content
Talk Morgan Expert

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,903
Port Orchard, WA.
The big deal to find out is what caused that to happen.


Stephen
2019 M3W, AR Stage 2

Re: Something to check [Re: LightSpeed] #674847
26/11/20 05:26 PM
26/11/20 05:26 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,290
Near Windsor Berkshire
R
Rog G Offline
Has a lot to Say!
Rog G  Offline
Has a lot to Say!
R

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,290
Near Windsor Berkshire
Originally Posted by LightSpeed
The big deal to find out is what caused that to happen.

It is likely that the retaining bolt was not properly torqued with Loctite, and allowed the cam pulley to fret away the keyway eventually failing.


2013 M3W
1971 4/4 2 Seater
1934 Sports
Re: Something to check [Re: nippymog] #674867
26/11/20 06:57 PM
26/11/20 06:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,150
Leicestershire, UK
Bunny Offline
Has a lot to Say!
Bunny  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,150
Leicestershire, UK
This is very interesting. Remember that a while ago S&S changed the type of pulley nut and at the same time introduced the requirement for applying lashings of Loctite.
[Linked Image]
They must have had a reason for making this change - maybe you've discovered it?


Andy
Re: Something to check [Re: Rog G] #674878
26/11/20 08:06 PM
26/11/20 08:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,903
Port Orchard, WA.
LightSpeed Online content
Talk Morgan Expert
LightSpeed  Online Content
Talk Morgan Expert

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,903
Port Orchard, WA.
Originally Posted by Rog G
Originally Posted by LightSpeed
The big deal to find out is what caused that to happen.

It is likely that the retaining bolt was not properly torqued with Loctite, and allowed the cam pulley to fret away the keyway eventually failing.


Probably true, having had all that apart to replace the cams i knows what it takes and what could happen if shortcuts were taken.


Stephen
2019 M3W, AR Stage 2

Re: Something to check [Re: nippymog] #674879
26/11/20 08:16 PM
26/11/20 08:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 252
Virginia, USA
Georgetoad Offline
Learner Plates Off!
Georgetoad  Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 252
Virginia, USA
Loctite is not a solution for bad engineering or design!


'34 Family 4
'70 +8
'03 Hummer H2
Re: Something to check [Re: nippymog] #674892
26/11/20 10:00 PM
26/11/20 10:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 411
Lancaster
Phil Bleazey Offline
Learner Plates Off!
Phil Bleazey  Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 411
Lancaster
Not only is loctite not an answer to poor design / inspection but it has to be realised that tightening the nut is not what keeps keyed pulleys / hubs on to shafts. The shaft and pulley have to be a light interference fit and there must be no clearance on the flanks of the key in either of them. If the key can be top and Botton fitted as well, so much the better. The only reason for the nut being there is to stop the pulley sliding off the end of the shaft. If a keyway is loose and can move even slightly it will undo the nut in the first few seconds of running.

Long gone are the days when all keys were hand fitted and therefore inspected by the fitter. These days the work is deskilled and keys and keyways are made to assemble as produced and the danger is that when manufacturing tolerances fall outside the design tolerances the the only thing to save the day is the inspection dept. picking up the error. Inspection relies more and more on statistics to provide adequate sampling and a small number of failures is regarded as a fair price to pay for the money saved. There are, in fact, statistics to provide acceptable failure rates - higher rates in lower cost vehicles and ( as I was taught at college) zero at Rolls Royce!

Sorry to hear of your expensive breakdown Graham but you are, after all, just one more statistic.


2013 M3W 1960 Velocette Venom and the Landrovardo!
Re: Something to check [Re: nippymog] #674904
26/11/20 11:06 PM
26/11/20 11:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19,080
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19,080
South Yorkshire
Early on in production there was an engine which had the pulley come off and smash through the front cover.

Does anybody remember seeing this? It may have been on a factory visit, it may have been a photo on TM. That's all I remember, but it made a mess.


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) AR Plus 4
Re: Something to check [Re: DaveW] #674906
26/11/20 11:10 PM
26/11/20 11:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,313
Devonshire
+8Rich Online content
Member of the Inner Circle
+8Rich  Online Content
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,313
Devonshire
I remember seeing that on here a few years back now, it wasn't a pretty sight and fairly low miles I seem to recall.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1994 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Something to check [Re: DaveW] #674908
26/11/20 11:31 PM
26/11/20 11:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,100
West Sussex, UK
Chris99 Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
Chris99  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,100
West Sussex, UK
Originally Posted by DaveW
Early on in production there was an engine which had the pulley come off and smash through the front cover.

Does anybody remember seeing this? It may have been on a factory visit, it may have been a photo on TM. That's all I remember, but it made a mess.


There were a handful with this around 2015/16 where the crankshaft pulley bolt unwound and broke through the cam cover.

S&S came out with a modified mounting bolt which cured the problem.


Red Leader drive
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  TalkMorgan 

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1