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Re: Latest MOT change - headlamps [Re: andymot] #682955
13/01/21 08:20 PM
13/01/21 08:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 943
East Sussex, ENGLAND
andymot Offline OP
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andymot  Offline OP
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 943
East Sussex, ENGLAND
Richard - Yes if there is self levelling fitted to HID or LED it must work. However this isn't always obvious if its working so if in any doubt the benefit must be given to the presenter. The manual doesn't mention cleaning systems on LED headlamps ( yet!) - however HIDs from 2009 ( that have washers fitted) must work or fail. Not fitted - not needed.


2015 Morgan 4/4 (Wolf fettled) previously 2014 M3W
MINI Cooper S and numerous BMC/BL relics.

Re: Latest MOT change - headlamps [Re: andymot] #682956
13/01/21 08:26 PM
13/01/21 08:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,411
East Harling, Norfolk UK
RichardV6 Offline
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RichardV6  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2016
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East Harling, Norfolk UK
I don't think HID or LED headlamps are a bad thing for a moment Dave, quite the opposite as you suggest. Being substantially brighter though they do have a corresponding potential to blind oncoming drivers on dipped beam if adjusted incorrectly OR if the cut-off is not of adequate precision.

ETA: Thanks for clarification Andy thumbs

Last edited by RichardV6; 13/01/21 08:29 PM.

Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Latest MOT change - headlamps [Re: andymot] #682958
13/01/21 08:29 PM
13/01/21 08:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 943
East Sussex, ENGLAND
andymot Offline OP
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andymot  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 943
East Sussex, ENGLAND
Dave,

Not a dim question but quite illuminating - no idea I'm afraid! Seems a bit daft BUT there will be a good reason why DVSA have changed the wording. Bit like its 30mph limit for a reason sort of explanation.

As a long standing tester I have learned not apply my own logic or standards or have too much of an opinion on test items/rules. That way i keep to the book and perform the test as DVSA insist.

I will however ask the man from the ministry when he pops in in another 2 years or so!


2015 Morgan 4/4 (Wolf fettled) previously 2014 M3W
MINI Cooper S and numerous BMC/BL relics.

Re: Latest MOT change - headlamps [Re: TBM] #682961
13/01/21 08:35 PM
13/01/21 08:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 960
Newton Abbot, South Devon UK
Felix42 Offline
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Felix42  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 960
Newton Abbot, South Devon UK
[/quote] it is very easy to tell the difference just with a visual inspection though the lens.[/quote]

That is not proof positive.


John

Silver 2005 S1 Roadster V6 - Henrietta
Re: Latest MOT change - headlamps [Re: Felix42] #682963
13/01/21 08:48 PM
13/01/21 08:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,720
Northants, UK
TBM Offline
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TBM  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,720
Northants, UK
Originally Posted by Felix42
Quote
it is very easy to tell the difference just with a visual inspection though the lens.


That is not proof positive.


May be, but I've not known many argue with an MOT tester and win smile


1972 4/4 4 seater - 3G Morganeer
Too many ratty motorbikes
Re: Latest MOT change - headlamps [Re: andymot] #682969
13/01/21 09:28 PM
13/01/21 09:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 722
North Somerset, UK
Deejay Offline
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Deejay  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 722
North Somerset, UK
I believe the issue here is not that LED headlights are a bad thing. The problem lies in using a LED “bulb” in a reflector and lens unit that was designed for a halogen light emission characteristic. So light distribution is not like a proper LED headlamp that would have been designed and built as such from scratch.
Interestingly, the RAC did a survey in 2019 on headlamp dazzle where about 89% of drivers admitted to being dazzled on occasion and stated the problem seemed to be getting worse. The report went on to say that the regulations were going to be reviewed...and here we are!


Doug

2011 +4 in Rich Maroon
1972 750 “ComDom” sprinter
1958 Triton 650
1992 Triumph Trophy 900
Re: Latest MOT change - headlamps [Re: andymot] #683031
14/01/21 11:19 AM
14/01/21 11:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,726
Suffolk
John V6 Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
John V6  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,726
Suffolk
I asked Duncan at Classic Car LEDS where I got my bulbs from if they would now offer headlight bowls or sealed units to meet the new MOT regs.
Here is his response which might explain why E marked LED headlights go from c £60 on fleabay to £350.

Hi John,

Thank you for your email.

We became aware of this on Tuesday.

It is a frustrating one as previously it was HID conversions of halogen reflectors only that was an auto fail. We can only imagine it is as a result of the flood of poor LED headlights on the market now. What is further frustrating is that so many insurers are accepting them as a safety upgrade assuming the MOT was passed. Interestingly Osram have had approved and therefore E-Marked, their H7 LED which is remarkably similar to ours for use in Germany only and only on the BMW 2 series so the regulators are beginning to catch up with technology so there may be hope yet.

We're selling them as off road use only, leaving individual customers to make their own choice as to use.

We are looking at complete conversions including the reflectors, however, from what we have found so far, those that state they are E marked are only E Marked for Electromagnetic Interference and not for road use currently.

Kind regards

Duncan

Duncan Rickards
www.classiccarleds.co.uk
Facebook - Classic Car LEDs


JohnV6
2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Latest MOT change - headlamps [Re: andymot] #683033
14/01/21 11:30 AM
14/01/21 11:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,173
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline
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CooperMan  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,173
Yorkshire
Shame that, I've had my Quadoptics tweaked on a proper MOT beam tester after fitting good quality LED bulbs & the Tester chap was happy with the alignment (we even had to aim them slightly up one one car)


Jon M
Re: Latest MOT change - headlamps [Re: SCX358G] #683041
14/01/21 12:03 PM
14/01/21 12:03 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,673
Essex
Burgundymog Offline
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Burgundymog  Offline
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,673
Essex
Originally Posted by SCX358G
This is probably a dim question (particulary if you still have halogen lights) - why practically are LEDs/HIDs a bad thing, ie a MOT fail? I would have thought they would actually be.a safety feature - my MG Midget and 4/4 both of late 1960 era light up the road in a much less satisfactory way than my modern SEAT Leon with LED headlamps.


Dave it is because the lens needs to be different to manage the light spread, the self levelling is to prevent the extreme dazzle that can be caused.


Keith
2013 narrow bodied + 4 Ruby.
Re: Latest MOT change - headlamps [Re: andymot] #683046
14/01/21 12:20 PM
14/01/21 12:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 53
UK
SCX358G Offline
Just Getting Started
SCX358G  Offline
Just Getting Started

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 53
UK
thanks to all for the clarification.....


Dave
Blue 4/4 1969, Green +4 1953
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