Click here to return to the home page.
Image of a road.
Who's Online Now
11 registered members (MJF, Rog G, Craig Jezz, Pmh44, TalkMorgan, Player99, 2017 Betty, Saxonian, Chris99, Michael P, Lance), 130 guests, and 13 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
John V6 289
+8Rich 281
Peter J 170
Image 139
Newest Topics
Morgan Plus 8 / Speedster Air Filter
by Helfinger. 14/04/21 11:12 AM
S1 side glass.
by Viper. 14/04/21 08:17 AM
Leicestershire sighting
by Farmer Giles. 13/04/21 09:47 PM
Leaking master cylinder
by auster. 13/04/21 08:04 PM
Morgan 4/4 for sale
by Spanner Juggler. 13/04/21 07:40 PM
alternative bevel box - bb replacement ?
by thono. 13/04/21 07:29 PM
Good news for Rhino's in Nepal
by +8Rich. 13/04/21 04:36 PM
Latest Photos
2017 Sport Blue M3W
Front spoiler
My M3W
Spring has sprung at Hintlesham...
Rebuilds begin
Newest Members
JFPlus4, Garry4, Steven Cheong, Ben25855, Scott G
7473 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics40,987
Posts685,827
Members7,473
Most Online1,033
Dec 28th, 2019
Today's Birthdays
missprint, p8mog
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Evolutionary processes in the classic market..? #688378
12/02/21 02:38 PM
12/02/21 02:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,612
L
Luddite Offline OP
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Luddite  Offline OP
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
L

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,612
The thread on Jaguar replicas and others is for me just a small part of a very much larger picture in terms of automomobile evolutionary processes. Now on the wrong side of 70 and for the majority of my life lived with bruised knuckles, dirty fingernails and empty wallet, all of which provided a reasonably wide perspective on which to accrue my own perspective on evaluation of a machine, which certainly does not match current market values or where they may well be heading in time if Climate Change becomes THE priority in the near future..

It seems even manufacturers are seeking to find profit in that which may be considered outgoing ICE technology and manufacturing systems by getting in on the retro-mod scene and of course replicas which can attract quite a high price, more so and in time from the original factory perhaps..? All of which can be brought down with a thump when contemplating the evolution in "market" value of Classics.

I spent many a year scrambling around "scrap yards just like the one in the vid, the URL of which is below.

https://youtu.be/0_lR7yoMpSw

For sure there is no stopping evolution, but given the somewhat uncertain economic future, combined with climate change and ever tighter MOT regultion whereby for a cat fitted car onward, to pass it seems it the regs may be marching ever onward to the extent it may have to match it`s initial design specification when it was a new vehicle. If ride height or a warning light showing creates a fail whatever next... My guess is that just as when the MOT was introduced, rather a lot of vehicles may end up in the scrap pile .... ?

Last edited by Luddite; 12/02/21 02:40 PM.
Re: Evolutionary processes in the classic market..? [Re: Luddite] #688385
12/02/21 03:12 PM
12/02/21 03:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,096
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
+8Rich  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,096
Devonshire
Interesting George sad video on the old jag.
I think an awful lot of people are going to be in for a very rude reality check when they come around to selling their 4 wheeled investments as they perceived them to be.
If you restrict the running or even prohibit their use where will the appeal be, I know my youngsters would not be comfortable driving around in an inefficient old ICE car as they are all very environmentally aware and fairly typical of their generation. The value of mine is around 35k so it won't affect me either way tbh, I'll just keep on using it all the time I feel I'm able, unless that Plus Four test drive blows my socks off laugh2 never say never...
One SIL has a Vantage alongside the family bus but I don't see the former lasting long in his stable, they have a Tesla joining it shortly.
He's a forensic accountant for a multinational and not a risk taker so I fear the Aston will be going whilst it's still a marketable proposition.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1994 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Evolutionary processes in the classic market..? [Re: Luddite] #688393
12/02/21 03:33 PM
12/02/21 03:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,408
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,408
Hampshire
I will admit the WFH thing has removed the mileage from the ML63 petrol converter and made me think again about a few things. Nieldas comments on his new Tesla iPad charger is making me think. I never thought that would happen. I caught myself surfing the Tesla web site yesterday. When they were first introduced they seemed mildly expensive but now they go up through £130k. Having said that the £130k one eats the equivalent Taycan even before you add options to the Pork, which you do even at that price.


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: Evolutionary processes in the classic market..? [Re: +8Rich] #688395
12/02/21 03:36 PM
12/02/21 03:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,735
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Needs to Get Out More!
Hamwich  Offline
Needs to Get Out More!

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,735
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by +8Rich
I think an awful lot of people are going to be in for a very rude reality check when they come around to selling their 4 wheeled investments as they perceived them to be.
If you restrict the running or even prohibit their use where will the appeal be, I know my youngsters would not be comfortable driving around in an inefficient old ICE car as they are all very environmentally aware and fairly typical of their generation. The value of mine is around 35k so it won't affect me either way tbh, I'll just keep on using it all the time I feel I'm able, unless that Plus Four test drive blows my socks off laugh2 never say never...
One SIL has a Vantage alongside the family bus but I don't see the former lasting long in his stable, they have a Tesla joining it shortly.
He's a forensic accountant for a multinational and not a risk taker so I fear the Aston will be going whilst it's still a marketable proposition.


Absolutely Richard. I made this point back last January, and the trend is becoming even clearer now. I have absolutely no expertise or in depth knowledge of the classic car market, but in the words of the immortal Bob Dylan "You don't need to be a Weatherman to see which way the wind blows".

If I had a car that owed me money I'd be looking to move it on sooner rather than later.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
Re: Evolutionary processes in the classic market..? [Re: Luddite] #688398
12/02/21 03:48 PM
12/02/21 03:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,136
southwest France
M
meabh Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
meabh  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
M

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,136
southwest France
I read the other day that Porche are looking at developing synthetic fuels, obviously with an eye on their heritage.

Last edited by meabh; 12/02/21 03:53 PM.
Re: Evolutionary processes in the classic market..? [Re: meabh] #688401
12/02/21 03:52 PM
12/02/21 03:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 492
Bergisches Land (near Cologne)
Jens Online content
Learner Plates Off!
Jens  Online Content
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 492
Bergisches Land (near Cologne)
I think there will be a longer dry spell once the electric cars have finally prevailed. Perhaps the drivers of combustion vehicles are even despised as climate killers. But I think that when combustion engines no longer play a role in everyday life, the classic car enthusiast will go up again.

Last edited by Jens; 12/02/21 03:54 PM.

2003 Morgan 4/4 2-seater

Re: Evolutionary processes in the classic market..? [Re: Luddite] #688403
12/02/21 04:06 PM
12/02/21 04:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 913
TheCustomer Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
TheCustomer  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 913
I'm not sure we're done with combustion engines yet - although they'll be hybrids.

There's huge potential in both hydrogen (to fuel/charge electric cells)

And also huge potential in biofuels, to power combustion engines.

I suspect we're headed for a mixed economy - all of which are cleaner & more efficient than today's ice/hybrid/electric power sources.

100 years ago we had a mixed economy - steam, electric, internal combustion - and the legacy technology, horse. It took a couple fo generations to work through to a dominant power source, with infrastructure. The technology of the early 1900s released more potential from internal combustion than from the alternatives.
Let's see what happens this time around.

+ there'll be a healthy drop-in replacement power market to convert classics that are worth saving. This'll really take off when the batteries are small enough & sufficiently efficient to match the ICE's range and performance. Lumaz are there already, preserving expensive & heavy classics. As with everything, what's initially a premium offering will in time become a commodity

Will


Aero 8 S5
BMW i8 Coupe
Triumph Stag '72
Re: Evolutionary processes in the classic market..? [Re: TheCustomer] #688412
12/02/21 04:45 PM
12/02/21 04:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,735
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Needs to Get Out More!
Hamwich  Offline
Needs to Get Out More!

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,735
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by TheCustomer

+ there'll be a healthy drop-in replacement power market to convert classics that are worth saving. This'll really take off when the batteries are small enough & sufficiently efficient to match the ICE's range and performance. Lumaz are there already, preserving expensive & heavy classics. As with everything, what's initially a premium offering will in time become a commodity


Indeed. I was recently tempted by the idea of a BEV conversion for my Defender Td5, offered by Twisted Performance. 200 mile range and keeping the 3.5 ton towing capacity would suit me fine. The only problem is the cost - at £90k it's a no-go for me. I do less than 5k miles a year in it and diesel would have to be ruinously expensive to make it feasible. Much better to simply use the thing less.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
Re: Evolutionary processes in the classic market..? [Re: Luddite] #688416
12/02/21 05:04 PM
12/02/21 05:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,408
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,408
Hampshire
So it's a Tesla CyberTruck for you then Tim ?


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: Evolutionary processes in the classic market..? [Re: Alistair] #688427
12/02/21 05:31 PM
12/02/21 05:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,735
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Needs to Get Out More!
Hamwich  Offline
Needs to Get Out More!

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,735
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by Alistair
So it's a Tesla CyberTruck for you then Tim ?


When you can buy one for less than £10k, maybe laugh2

Buying any EV when one has a perfectly serviceable ICE vehicle has got such a huge ecological overhead that it makes no 'green' sense at all when one only does a low annual mileage. The Defender has only got 110k miles on it so it's easily going to last us out, I very much doubt if we'll still be driving in 20 years, and at 5k miles a year that's only another 100k miles it needs to do at the most.

Same with the Fiat 500. It's got less than 10k miles on it so is easily good for another 10 years, very probably much more, and the Morgan has only got about 40k miles on its current engine so no worries there either.

By far the easiest way to be ecologically responsible regarding car usage is simply to use them less and not change them every couple of years.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  TalkMorgan 

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1