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Electrical questions : 1934 3 wheeler Super Spo #690847
26/02/21 03:30 PM
26/02/21 03:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 4
Manila, Philippines
P
patrickt Offline OP
New to Talk Morgan
patrickt  Offline OP
New to Talk Morgan
P

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 4
Manila, Philippines
Hello All,
I wasn't sure whether to post here or the 3 wheeler forum. The 3 wheeler forum appears to be for the new 3 wheelers only ? ? This is for our 1934 3 wheeler Super Sports with JAP LTWZ 1100cc sidevalve engine, that is being fitted with a 6 volt Thorspark electronic ignition kit. Just a couple of questions.

1) I am using the 6 volt starter, generator and lights. May I ask what the original Battery Electrical Specs were for this engine ? Please include ampere hours.

2) What is the diameter of the original Lucas generator pulley

I appreciate any help. Thank you.
Patrick

Re: Electrical questions : 1934 3 wheeler Super Spo [Re: patrickt] #690870
26/02/21 04:56 PM
26/02/21 04:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,540
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline
Just barreling along
CooperMan  Offline
Just barreling along
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,540
Yorkshire
Patrick, try the 3W forum, Ian Parkinson on there has a '34 SS


Jon M
Re: Electrical questions : 1934 3 wheeler Super Spo [Re: patrickt] #690885
26/02/21 05:40 PM
26/02/21 05:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 19,655
Suffolk
John V6 Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
John V6  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 19,655
Suffolk
BuyBritish on here has also a 1930s 3 wheeler.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Electrical questions : 1934 3 wheeler Super Spo [Re: patrickt] #690922
26/02/21 09:17 PM
26/02/21 09:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,688
East Harling, Norfolk UK
RichardV6 Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
RichardV6  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,688
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Patrick, speaking in generic terms, a six volt system and that size engine would require a minimum 70 amp hour battery.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Electrical questions : 1934 3 wheeler Super Spo [Re: patrickt] #690929
26/02/21 11:59 PM
26/02/21 11:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,011
A
Arwyn Williams Offline
Has a lot to Say!
Arwyn Williams  Offline
Has a lot to Say!
A

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,011
I've probably got the battery specs somewhere but for all intents and purposes, the battery i used in my 1934 MX4 Sports Family is from an early MGB, is one half of the pair of 6V batteries they use.

I've since converted it to 12 v in the interests of safety and used one of Roger Orfords Bosch alternator conversion kits.

The standard dynamo didn't use a pulley, instead it used a pair of gears running off the gearbox cross shaft. One of the gears being a fibre gear which soon stripped and are often replaced with steel or alloy gears. The bracket isn't very strong either! It also means that the battery is not charged until the car is actually moving above 25mph.

Hope this helps

Arwyn

Re: Electrical questions : 1934 3 wheeler Super Spo [Re: patrickt] #690943
27/02/21 08:40 AM
27/02/21 08:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 904
UK
BuyBritish Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
BuyBritish  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 904
UK
My comments are same as Arwyn above,

Basically my 1934 3 wheeler was ^Volts in the beginning however
6V is feeble on todays roads it is poor for the starter which needs the decomprseor to be used so the 6V can turn the engine over
The DYNAMO works off of the gearbox so you need to be moving to charge and the DYNAMO has a feeble output
My MX had a pulley fitted to the flywheel which was connected to a dynamo meaning it would charge whenever the engine ran, the Dynamo was located beside the engine upfront so it got wet....

My new setup is a 12V ALTERNATOR connected to the gearbox under the seat (the Roger Orford conversion)
A 12V battery
12v Starter motor
12v electrics including 12v LED headlights which use much less current from the battery and alternator ....no charging occurs unless you are moving due to the alternator being driven from the gearbox....

[Linked Image]Ali 3 wheeler June 2020. 3 by Robert & Ali Davies, on Flickr

Alternator and drive is fitted to this side of gearbox and aluminium pulley is fitted to centre of swinging arm here

[Linked Image]DSC_1056 by Robert & Ali Davies, on Flickr

[Linked Image]DSC_0003 by Robert & Ali Davies, on Flickr


Rob Davies
Morgan 3 Wheeler 1934 MX
Morgan Series 1 1947
Morgan +4 1956 TR4
Morgan +4 2000 T16 Rov
Re: Electrical questions : 1934 3 wheeler Super Spo [Re: patrickt] #690989
27/02/21 12:29 PM
27/02/21 12:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 4
Manila, Philippines
P
patrickt Offline OP
New to Talk Morgan
patrickt  Offline OP
New to Talk Morgan
P

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 4
Manila, Philippines
CooperMan - I take that to mean that they discuss vintage 3 wheelers as well. Thank you.

John V6 - Thank you.

RichardV6 - Thanks for the ballpark figure.

Arwyn Williams -
Interesting thing about how the dynamo of your MX4 is run by gears from the gearbox. And I'm guessing a fibre gear waa used to lessen noise and maybe to act as the sacrificial gear for whatever reason Matchless (or Morgan ??) deemed appropriate ??? Nevertheless it's obviously more practical to go the 12 volt route with a standard belt driven alternator. But for now, we would like to remain with the 6 volt dynamo-starter setup.

By the way, when you say that the MX4 standard dynamo is driven via the gearbox, did you mean this to apply to our JAP LTWZ 1100 sidevalve as well ? I asked about the pulley size because our dynamo is in fact belt driven ( perhaps a previous modification? ). Thanks for your reply.

BuyBritish -
As I told Arwyn, for now, we would like to maintain the 6 volt system. It does have the Thorspark electronic ignition mod, which responds easily to a slow turning crankshaft, so I'm not worried about a slow engine turnover. Lighting of course is a different story... But it will be used mostly for daytime fun drives on normally slow roads. You both are obviously having a grand time with that modernized electrical system ! Maybe someday we might follow your lead. Thank you as well for your response. And thanks for the pictures. Nice looking 3 wheeler !

Everyone-
I would still like to know exactly what the Battery Electrical Specs were for our particular engine, since finding a 6 volt battery with more than a mere 12ampere hours might be challenging to find.

I will check out the 3 wheeler forum then, since I just now found out that they catered to vintage 3 wheelers as well. Thank You all for your informative responses.
Patrick






Last edited by patrickt; 27/02/21 12:32 PM.
Re: Electrical questions : 1934 3 wheeler Super Spo [Re: patrickt] #691017
27/02/21 03:42 PM
27/02/21 03:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,688
East Harling, Norfolk UK
RichardV6 Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
RichardV6  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,688
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Worth noting the 6 volt dynamo on my 500cc Velocette was converted to 12 volt by simply increasing the crankshaft drive pulley size a tad and fitting a solid state 12 volt regulator, which fits inside the old reg can to maintain originality. If you have a positive earth system it a good opportunity to convert to negative earth. Just fit battery that way around then run a temporary wire from battery positive and dab it on the dynamo's F (field terminal).

ETA: plenty of higher capacity 6 volt batteries around if you have deep pockets. This one on eBay is 80 amp hour and 600 CCA.

Last edited by RichardV6; 27/02/21 03:53 PM.

Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Electrical questions : 1934 3 wheeler Super Spo [Re: patrickt] #691038
27/02/21 05:22 PM
27/02/21 05:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,011
A
Arwyn Williams Offline
Has a lot to Say!
Arwyn Williams  Offline
Has a lot to Say!
A

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,011
Originally Posted by patrickt
CooperMan - I take that to mean that they discuss vintage 3 wheelers as well. Thank you.

John V6 - Thank you.

RichardV6 - Thanks for the ballpark figure.

Arwyn Williams -
Interesting thing about how the dynamo of your MX4 is run by gears from the gearbox. And I'm guessing a fibre gear waa used to lessen noise and maybe to act as the sacrificial gear for whatever reason Matchless (or Morgan ??) deemed appropriate ??? Nevertheless it's obviously more practical to go the 12 volt route with a standard belt driven alternator. But for now, we would like to remain with the 6 volt dynamo-starter setup.

By the way, when you say that the MX4 standard dynamo is driven via the gearbox, did you mean this to apply to our JAP LTWZ 1100 sidevalve as well ? I asked about the pulley size because our dynamo is in fact belt driven ( perhaps a previous modification? ). Thanks for your reply.

BuyBritish -
As I told Arwyn, for now, we would like to maintain the 6 volt system. It does have the Thorspark electronic ignition mod, which responds easily to a slow turning crankshaft, so I'm not worried about a slow engine turnover. Lighting of course is a different story... But it will be used mostly for daytime fun drives on normally slow roads. You both are obviously having a grand time with that modernized electrical system ! Maybe someday we might follow your lead. Thank you as well for your response. And thanks for the pictures. Nice looking 3 wheeler !

Everyone-
I would still like to know exactly what the Battery Electrical Specs were for our particular engine, since finding a 6 volt battery with more than a mere 12ampere hours might be challenging to find.

I will check out the 3 wheeler forum then, since I just now found out that they catered to vintage 3 wheelers as well. Thank You all for your informative responses.
Patrick






Gear box driven dynamo was standard on all three speed twins from R type, modified R type through to D type irrespective of what engine was fitted. The F types had an engine driven dynamo

Personally, I'd be more concerned about other motorists seeing me rather than maintaining strict originality but each to their own.

Arwyn

Last edited by Arwyn Williams; 27/02/21 05:22 PM.
Re: Electrical questions : 1934 3 wheeler Super Spo [Re: RichardV6] #691093
27/02/21 11:41 PM
27/02/21 11:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 4
Manila, Philippines
P
patrickt Offline OP
New to Talk Morgan
patrickt  Offline OP
New to Talk Morgan
P

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 4
Manila, Philippines
Thanks for the suggestions Richard. The 3 wheeler still belongs to my dad, and he is trying to maintain its originality. So any 12 volt upgrading will likely not happen anytime soon...


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