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Roadster S1 v S2 #691066
27/02/21 07:50 PM
27/02/21 07:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,453
Staffordshire
IvorMog Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
IvorMog  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,453
Staffordshire
I'm having some thoughts at the moment relating to Roadsters.

I would be interested to get some critique and comparisons between the Series 1 and Series 2 Roadsters.

Fundamentally the same 3.0L engine but seems to have been de-rated in the S2.

What are the main differences and what is the driving comparison like between them?

I've read the section in Dave's book but would like some more in-depth owner experience please.


Bob

2009 Black Roadster
1999 4/4 2 litre Zetec
Re: Roadster S1 v S2 [Re: IvorMog] #691074
27/02/21 08:26 PM
27/02/21 08:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 51
South Shields
L
Leroy Offline
Just Getting Started
Leroy  Offline
Just Getting Started
L

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 51
South Shields
What do you mean by the series 2 being de-rated? I have a series 1 and has so much power. If de-rating means less power, I don't think I would be too fussed as I don't tend to push it to the limit.


2004 Series 1 Roadster
Re: Roadster S1 v S2 [Re: IvorMog] #691080
27/02/21 09:57 PM
27/02/21 09:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19,319
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19,319
South Yorkshire
Its 223bhp vs 205bhp. Getrag gearbox vs Ford. Rear axle ratio changed. Different dash.

I have no S2 Experience.

When restrictions end Bob, I can take you out in my S1. If that helps.


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) AR Plus 4
Re: Roadster S1 v S2 [Re: IvorMog] #691084
27/02/21 10:22 PM
27/02/21 10:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,084
SimonH Online content
Has a lot to Say!
SimonH  Online Content
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,084
As Dave W says...

But what it means is:-
S1 Engine is Mondeo St220 spec , S2 is Ford Escape, different cams, different induction, different ECU- definitely doesn’t feel as crisp

S type Jaguar Getrag gearbox vs Ford Transit MT75, the former is a nicer shift, and has a direct 5th gear
The transit box is overdriven on 5th and hence needs a lower Final drive ratio in the back axle- which further shortens the already short first gear

Different dashboard means the steering wheel sits lower into your lap, most of the column adjustment is used up making the dash fit

Dash PCB’s on the S1’s are exposed, and can and do fail
Both variants like to eat exhaust Down pipe gaskets

S1 cars may or may not be fitted with the Nylon kingpin bushes, which swell, grab and wear out the kingpins
S2 cars have factory roller bearings fitted to the front springs
Late S2 cars may have the plastic radiator fitted

For my money the S1 is a much nicer car to drive, and were built when MMC’s quality control IMHO was at its best


Simon @ Sifab.co.uk

Sifabtemporary@gmail.com
Re: Roadster S1 v S2 [Re: IvorMog] #691089
27/02/21 10:59 PM
27/02/21 10:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 19,655
Suffolk
John V6 Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
John V6  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 19,655
Suffolk
The s1 is a lovely car.i have never tried the S2.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Roadster S1 v S2 [Re: IvorMog] #691112
28/02/21 09:09 AM
28/02/21 09:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,136
southwest France
M
meabh Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
meabh  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
M

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,136
southwest France
I am going to stick up for my November 2010 Roadster Sport .Very quick, can remove my wife sunglasses from the top of her head accelerating in second, and make her laugh out loud.

Re: Roadster S1 v S2 [Re: IvorMog] #691118
28/02/21 09:50 AM
28/02/21 09:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 19,655
Suffolk
John V6 Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
John V6  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 19,655
Suffolk
//in 2010 they changed to the S3 & 240 bhp. But there is also an ECU chip for the S2 to release that power.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Roadster S1 v S2 [Re: IvorMog] #691125
28/02/21 10:15 AM
28/02/21 10:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,899
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
Charter Member
Heinz  Offline
Charter Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,899
Köln Germany
Simon, this is such a valuable short report that it should be archived somewhere and not be lost in the nirvana of the forum in three days at the latest and forgotten again.
I had both models, and in addition also later an S3.

Simon has pointed out the most important differences.I confirm every point Simon makes based on my experience.
One difference about the engines I would like to mention (I assume Simon knows this, but didn't want to make his post too long).
The S1 engine from the Mondeo ST/Jaguar SType is more sporty in design and has bucket tappets. The S2 engine from the Ford Escape has roller cam followers.

The S 2 engine, my car was from 2008, had a very bad rev hang. It was fixed on my car at no cost by replacing the ECU from MMC. (This rev hang was the subject of my first post here on the forum in 2009).

The engine of the S2 always felt a bit docile with very nice sound, but still a bit lame. With the exchange of the ECU not only the rev hang was gone but the engine of the S2 suddenly had real life and urge. I actually regretted in retrospect to sell the S2 after the exchange of the ecu. But the S3 was already ordered. The rev hang of the S2 was worse than the lame performance...and with the exchange of the ECU was both transformed...unfortunately too late.

I would like to point out one more thing. You might think now after reading that the S2 would be much worse than the S1. But it is not that simple! And I did not have this impression at all. Except for the rev hang I liked my S2 very much!

But even without the new ECU it was for me so that I felt the sound of S2 much nicer and fuller than from the S1. I got used to the Ford box very quickly and I liked it a lot because it has that controlled "clang" when you shift into gear, which I really appreciate.
The S2 Roadster as a whole felt a bit more torquey- even with the old ECU! It really added to the character of the car as a cruiser and it matched the smoother and silkier sound of the Ford Escape engine. I don't know the data why I experienced the torque in gear three and four so much better, my guess: 1) Engines shift their power (subjectively felt) towards lower rpm when less powerful (even if in „objective measures“ the S1 may have more torque in the midband. 2) Gear three and four may be shorter than in the Getrag Box which underwrites the feel of better torque in S2.

My intention is not to bring more technical differences that may invite one or the other reader to get lost.
I have only listed it in addition to the facts that Simon has posted, and this as a premise to the conclusion I want to make:

S1 and S2 are fantastic examples of an (each specific) whole being more than the sum of its parts.

Because for me there is an important driver-typological decision support.
Namely, two cars with different characters have emerged. The sporty fast driver will be enthusiastic about the S1...with its powerful engine and perfectly tuned gearbox.
The pleasure-seeking cruiser, who is emotionally immersed in the landscape and already thinks of the red wine while driving or of other beautiful things that the evening holds in store, is perhaps better off in the S2, preferably with a replacement ecu, if the car comes from a charge that had problems with it.
I liked both cars, but in retrospect I was very fond of the sound and character of the S2...and the memory of nice trips to France.

It's not nitpicking, as the uninitiated might think. It can make significant differences, like whether I prefer a 59 neck Lespaul or a 60 neck. In the end, the condition counts a lot and the old song...will the Morgan find you?






'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Roadster S1 v S2 [Re: Heinz] #691129
28/02/21 10:33 AM
28/02/21 10:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,084
SimonH Online content
Has a lot to Say!
SimonH  Online Content
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,084
Originally Posted by Heinz
Simon, this is such a valuable short report that it should be archived somewhere and not be lost in the nirvana of the forum in three days at the latest and forgotten again.
I had both models, and in addition also later an S3.

Simon has pointed out the most important differences.I confirm every point Simon makes based on my experience.
One difference about the engines I would like to mention (I assume Simon knows this, but didn't want to make his post too long).
The S1 engine from the Mondeo ST/Jaguar SType is more sporty in design and has bucket tappets. The S2 engine from the Ford Escape has roller cam followers.

The S 2 engine, my car was from 2008, had a very bad rev hang. It was fixed on my car at no cost by replacing the ECU from MMC. (This rev hang was the subject of my first post here on the forum in 2009).

The engine of the S2 always felt a bit docile with very nice sound, but still a bit lame. With the exchange of the ECU not only the rev hang was gone but the engine of the S2 suddenly had real life and urge. I actually regretted in retrospect to sell the S2 after the exchange of the ecu. But the S3 was already ordered. The rev hang of the S2 was worse than the lame performance...and with the exchange of the ECU was both transformed...unfortunately too late.

I would like to point out one more thing. You might think now after reading that the S2 would be much worse than the S1. But it is not that simple! And I did not have this impression at all. Except for the rev hang I liked my S2 very much!

But even without the new ECU it was for me so that I felt the sound of S2 much nicer and fuller than from the S1. I got used to the Ford box very quickly and I liked it a lot because it has that controlled "clang" when you shift into gear, which I really appreciate.
The S2 Roadster as a whole felt a bit more torquey- even with the old ECU! It really added to the character of the car as a cruiser and it matched the smoother and silkier sound of the Ford Escape engine. I don't know the data why I experienced the torque in gear three and four so much better, my guess: 1) Engines shift their power (subjectively felt) towards lower rpm when less powerful (even if in „objective measures“ the S1 may have more torque in the midband. 2) Gear three and four may be shorter than in the Getrag Box which underwrites the feel of better torque in S2.

My intention is not to bring more technical differences that may invite one or the other reader to get lost.
I have only listed it in addition to the facts that Simon has posted, and this as a premise to the conclusion I want to make:

S1 and S2 are fantastic examples of an (each specific) whole being more than the sum of its parts.

Because for me there is an important driver-typological decision support.
Namely, two cars with different characters have emerged. The sporty fast driver will be enthusiastic about the S1...with its powerful engine and perfectly tuned gearbox.
The pleasure-seeking cruiser, who is emotionally immersed in the landscape and already thinks of the red wine while driving or of other beautiful things that the evening holds in store, is perhaps better off in the S2, preferably with a replacement ecu, if the car comes from a charge that had problems with it.
I liked both cars, but in retrospect I was very fond of the sound and character of the S2...and the memory of nice trips to France.

It's not nitpicking, as the uninitiated might think. It can make significant differences, like whether I prefer a 59 neck Lespaul or a 60 neck. In the end, the condition counts a lot and the old song...will the Morgan find you?






Heinz- the S1 engine IS NOT Jaguar, never was, it is Ford Spec and uses the finger cam followers


Simon @ Sifab.co.uk

Sifabtemporary@gmail.com
Re: Roadster S1 v S2 [Re: John V6] #691131
28/02/21 10:43 AM
28/02/21 10:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 279
Norway
westgardronning Offline
Learner Plates Off!
westgardronning  Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 279
Norway
Originally Posted by John V6
The s1 is a lovely car.i have never tried the S2.

+1 thumbs


2005 Roadster 3.0 S1
1960 MGA Roadster

Regards Aage
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