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3wheeler brake problem #695346
24/03/21 07:59 PM
24/03/21 07:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 116
Dubai
S
Steve19 Offline OP
L - Learner Plates On
Steve19  Offline OP
L - Learner Plates On
S

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 116
Dubai
good evening gentlemen, i have a question about 3 wheeler brakes of which i am blissfully ignorant, its a fellow Morgan owners car, this is the problem, the brakes work perfectly.... then nothing, pedal goes all the way to the floor, switch off engine , restart engine brakes work normally. i have physically checked the system brake fluid is crystal clear level normal and no leaks.
any one have any ideas?

Thanks guys


Steve Grisdale

Morgan 3.0l Roadster 2010 aka BORIS
Triumph Thunderbird 2000
Volvo XC 60 x 3
Volvo C30

Re: 3wheeler brake problem [Re: Steve19] #695357
24/03/21 08:22 PM
24/03/21 08:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 5,681
East Harling, Norfolk UK
RichardV6 Offline
Charter Member
RichardV6  Offline
Charter Member

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 5,681
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Faulty master cylinder?


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1945 Moto Guzzi Airone
Re: 3wheeler brake problem [Re: Steve19] #695377
24/03/21 11:59 PM
24/03/21 11:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,966
United Kingdom, Lincolnshire
planenut Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
planenut  Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,966
United Kingdom, Lincolnshire

The problem cannot be related to the engine off/on as there is no connection such as a brake servo.

Re: 3wheeler brake problem [Re: Steve19] #695380
25/03/21 12:43 AM
25/03/21 12:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,140
Wales
T
Taffmog Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
Taffmog  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
T

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,140
Wales
Hmmm, sounds ominous...,watching with interest ...


1969 4/4
1995 plus 8
2002 Aero S1
2013 M3W
2014 Plus 8
Re: 3wheeler brake problem [Re: Steve19] #695401
25/03/21 08:19 AM
25/03/21 08:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 32
M
MTWV2 Offline
Just Getting Started
MTWV2  Offline
Just Getting Started
M

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 32
Have had almost the same problem with pedal going nearly to the floor. Have done the way home very slowly and put tt in the garage. Next day, I climbed on board and miracle everything was in order. My guess is that the brake sometimes stay to thight and as a result, oil is overheating. That's why the pedal went to the floor. When everything cools down it comes to normal again. The two routes to investgate for safety reasons are: the handbrake cable staying too thight or a stuck brake cylinder.

Re: 3wheeler brake problem [Re: Steve19] #695442
25/03/21 01:37 PM
25/03/21 01:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 92
Houston, Texas USA
C
CasaLobo Offline
Just Getting Started
CasaLobo  Offline
Just Getting Started
C

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 92
Houston, Texas USA
I have had this issue, as well, and it was resolved just as mysteriously. It has only happened once. I will say that it was a hot day and a long ride in some traffic when it happened. Although, by the same token, I have had rides like that before without issue.

Re: 3wheeler brake problem [Re: Steve19] #695444
25/03/21 01:41 PM
25/03/21 01:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,708
Port Orchard, WA.
LightSpeed Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
LightSpeed  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,708
Port Orchard, WA.
If braked are used a lot then the fluid can overheat. Maybe a different fluid for your style of driving?


The light at the end of the tunnel is actually a train. 2019 M3W

Re: 3wheeler brake problem [Re: Steve19] #695457
25/03/21 03:34 PM
25/03/21 03:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 642
SW Iowa, U.S.A.
Bitsobrits Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
Bitsobrits  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 642
SW Iowa, U.S.A.
Brake fluid boiling should never occur on a street driven machine unless something is wrong. It takes extreme use, such as on a racetrack, or perhaps descending a long mountainside using the brakes the entire way, to cause fluid boiling and even there it's fairly rare. I've done hundreds of laps of racing events and track day driving in various machines and only once experienced pressure loss due to fluid boiling, and that was in a 6 hour enduro race.

If a M3W is boiling the fluid in normal street driving then one of the brakes must be dragging. Easy to check as when it occurs you can do a simple temperature check with your hand to find the offending brake as it will be extremely hot. Most likely the culprit is the rear brake, skulking as it does in the dark recesses of the back end where no air flows. On my car at least, the back brake seems to be somewhat variable in the amount of drag it evidences. Pushing my machine around in the garage I've noticed that if I push in reverse for some distance (like 20ft +) the rear brake will sometimes lock up, and I have to push forward to release it. (the machine is stone cold when this occurs) I've had the rear brake out twice now to clean and inspect it, and all appears fine. I suspect something is amiss with the auto adjusting mechanism, but I can't see it.

All this said, boiling fluid typically takes many minutes to cool enough to return to normal function especially if the car is stationary, so if the pedal goes to the floor then almost instantly fixes itself (like after an engine restart as described above) then that points more towards an internal issue in one of the master cylinders. Could be caused by several things like a deteriorating seal, a sticking piston cocking a bit and distorting a seal, congealed brake fluid distorting a seal, fluid contamination, etc.

I would start with a full and proper flush/replacement of the brake fluid and see what that yields in terms of information and results.

Last edited by Bitsobrits; 25/03/21 03:58 PM.

Steve
Late 2012 M3W




Re: 3wheeler brake problem [Re: Steve19] #695461
25/03/21 04:33 PM
25/03/21 04:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,724
New River Valley, VA
rcmatt Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
rcmatt  Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,724
New River Valley, VA
something to consider. All brakes will have a way for the fluid to return to the reservoir. On old gold wings we call it a spoog hole. These can be blocked by really small pieces of junk even if the fluid looks clear. If blocked the warming of the fluid will cause a pressure build up and the brakes will drag. This can lead to over heating of the brake fluid.

I had this happen on the front brakes of my '78 wing and also in the hydraulic clutch on our 86 1200 wing. In the first case the brake dragged. In the second case, the pressure build up disengaged the clutch.


Rodger
2018 M3W "Dreamers on the Rise"
2004 Plus 8 (wife's)
old Goldwings and a couple of Harleys
Re: 3wheeler brake problem [Re: Steve19] #695476
25/03/21 06:23 PM
25/03/21 06:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 283
north yorkshire
B
B3MOG Offline
Learner Plates Off!
B3MOG  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
B

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 283
north yorkshire
When I used to work on industrial vehicles, I came across this problem a few times, what i found was that the brake pedal was not returning fully to replenish the master cylinder , if you physically return the pedal by putting your foot under the pedal the full brake pressure returns.

David Byrne.

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