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Immobiliser: no start although indicator light off #706450
10/06/21 08:02 AM
10/06/21 08:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 307
Vienna, Austria
Michael P Offline OP
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Michael P  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 307
Vienna, Austria
About 2 months ago, I could not restart my Morgan (Plus 4, year of manufacture 2018, with start button) during a short drive after a short stop. After about 1 hour (in the meantime I had checked all the fuses and replaced the relays) it started again.
At the time, I thought that I had reset it by removing and reinserting fuse 1 in block B (ECU, immobiliser).

Now I had the same problem again last week. All attempts to start the car or find the fault failed. Finally, my Morgan garage took the car away with a tow truck. In the presence of a mechanic we tried to start the car. Without success.
Before loading the car, I pushed it and it started!

The car was still transported to the workshop to find the cause.
The diagnostic device showed no stored error and every start attempt was successful. Finding a currently non-existent fault is of course difficult.

Now to my actual question:
The workshop now thinks that the immobiliser ring on the ignition lock was defective (insulation partially detached). However, in all attempts to start the car, the indicator light of the immobiliser went out as soon as the ignition key was near the ignition lock. Is it possible that the immobiliser was still active even though the indicator light was off?

I'm worried that this wasn't the actual cause and the fault will occur again and then on holiday, far away from a garage. Last time I was lucky that it was at home and the garage was only about 1 hour away and could come with the tow truck.

In any case, I want to be well prepared for this emergency and am looking for a wiring diagram for the Plus 4 (2018). It would also be helpful to have an order of points to check (e.g. 1. Does the battery have enough voltage? 2. does the indicator light of the immobiliser go out? 3. are all fuses OK? 4. does the start button close the contact? 5. ...)

I am very grateful for any hints!


Michael
2018 Plus 4 Sport
Re: Immobiliser: no start although indicator light off [Re: Michael P] #706451
10/06/21 08:44 AM
10/06/21 08:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,061
East Harling, Norfolk UK
RichardV6 Offline
Part of the Furniture
RichardV6  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,061
East Harling, Norfolk UK
For peace of mind and assuming the immobiliser has an intermittent fault could you have made up a bypass connector to C78, the Tyco immobiliser connector to chassis harness. This to carry with you in case of failure.

Wiring schematic below to illustrate.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by RichardV6; 10/06/21 08:49 AM.

Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Immobiliser: no start although indicator light off [Re: Michael P] #706455
10/06/21 09:58 AM
10/06/21 09:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 307
Vienna, Austria
Michael P Offline OP
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Michael P  Offline OP
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Vienna, Austria
Richard,
Thank you for the wiring diagram and the hint with the bypass for connector 78.
Where can I find this connector? Is it possible to use a suitable counterpart with a wire jumper in the right place?


Michael
2018 Plus 4 Sport
Re: Immobiliser: no start although indicator light off [Re: Michael P] #706457
10/06/21 10:06 AM
10/06/21 10:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19,782
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19,782
South Yorkshire
My Plus 4 starts when the immobiliser light goes out.
If your starter doesn't engage I would suspect the starter relay.

Does everything else prime? If not, look again at the ignition and fuel pump relays.

Also check the main earth cable!


DaveW
'05 Red Roadster S1
'16 Yellow (Not the only) Narrow AR GDI Plus 4
Re: Immobiliser: no start although indicator light off [Re: Michael P] #706458
10/06/21 11:12 AM
10/06/21 11:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 307
Vienna, Austria
Michael P Offline OP
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Michael P  Offline OP
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Vienna, Austria
When the ignition is switched on, the fuel pump is audible.

[Linked Image]

The two relays marked "fuel system relay" and "engine/immobiliser relay" are identical in construction and I have exchanged them.

Where is the starter relay located? Is this the "engine/immobiliser relay" in the fuse box?

All other electrical equipment works fine (lights, radio, etc.).


Michael
2018 Plus 4 Sport
Re: Immobiliser: no start although indicator light off [Re: Michael P] #706462
10/06/21 11:50 AM
10/06/21 11:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,061
East Harling, Norfolk UK
RichardV6 Offline
Part of the Furniture
RichardV6  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,061
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Originally Posted by Michael P
Richard,
Thank you for the wiring diagram and the hint with the bypass for connector 78.
Where can I find this connector? Is it possible to use a suitable counterpart with a wire jumper in the right place?

Don't know but guess it's behind dash on 450mm breakout from main loom.

Yes matching plug wired to bypass immobiliser was my thought.

Regarding starter relay, it does appear to be centre one on your diagram, described elsewhere as Engine/Ignition.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Immobiliser: no start although indicator light off [Re: Michael P] #706491
10/06/21 09:50 PM
10/06/21 09:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 276
Sandhurst, Berks
T
teknome Offline
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T

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 276
Sandhurst, Berks

When you refer to the car not starting, does the starter motor fail to operate. ? I had a similar problem with my 2007 Plus 4. The cause was a bad connection in the connector between the Morgan loom and the engine loom. There was a multi pin connector on the extreme right under the dash, up somewhere among the carpet on the side of the footwell. Car starts OK when you push start it as the ignition and fuel are ready, just waiting for the engine to crank over. Worth pulling connectors apart and using some contact cleaner. In my case I proved the problem with a DVM before breaking and remaking the connector. Some time ago we had a similar problem with a friends LM62, although in this case I think the loom connection involved was on the left hand side and had suffered with water ingress.


---------------------------
Mike Smith


1995 +8
2007 +4
Re: Immobiliser: no start although indicator light off [Re: Michael P] #706514
11/06/21 07:35 AM
11/06/21 07:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
A
AndyrIch Offline
Just Getting Started
AndyrIch  Offline
Just Getting Started
A

Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
I had exactly the same problem with my 2017 Plus4 the other night, drove about half an hour to parents house, went to go home half an hour later & the engine would not start,
Imobiliser light went out
Fuel pump buzzed
engine turned over
absolutely no sign of it wanting to catch

AA called & after checking fuses & doing an OBD scan couldn't find anything other than the EML came on.

Pulled a spark plug & there was no sign of any spark at all.

Swapped the Fuel system relay and the engine/imobiliser relay with each other & it fired up first time.

Can only assume a sticky relay. Replacements were £8 each from halfords so have replaced both.

I was impressed with the Polish AA man, back to basic principles rather than reliant on a computer, he had never seen a Morgan before, but was a landcover enthusiast & liked the door catches! He was less impressed with the labelling of the fuse box - using the diagram posted above, mine is labelled the same but actually block A and B are transposed.

Re: Immobiliser: no start although indicator light off [Re: RichardV6] #706541
11/06/21 12:01 PM
11/06/21 12:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1
Boerne, Texas USA
M
MikeA Offline
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MikeA  Offline
New to Talk Morgan
M

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1
Boerne, Texas USA
Hello from Texas USA. I have a 2019 Plus 4 and the immobiliser is a pain in the a.. Due to numerous times not being able to start because of the immobiliser not allowing it to I have taken the little capsule from the key, removed the wire coil that surrounds the key switch and taped the capsule so that it “floats” in the center of the coil. I am intrigued by your method of bypassing the immobiliser using connector C78. How would I make this bypass? What pins do I connect what to?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Re: Immobiliser: no start although indicator light off [Re: Michael P] #706553
11/06/21 01:34 PM
11/06/21 01:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 307
Vienna, Austria
Michael P Offline OP
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Michael P  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 307
Vienna, Austria
In my case, nothing happened when I pressed the start button (the starter did not turn and there were no other "noises").
Before that, the fuel pump was clearly audible when the starter key was turned to the first position.

What finally got the car started was the classic push-start and clutch engagement. I will certainly try that next time (luckily the Morgan is not heavy).

Yesterday I picked up my Morgan again from the workshop. The coil around the ignition lock was replaced (the old one had some damaged insulation). The garage is convinced that this was the cause and the problem should be fixed. I hope they are right.


Michael
2018 Plus 4 Sport
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