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A silly old man! Me. :-( #708986
07/07/21 07:33 AM
07/07/21 07:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,287
H
howard Offline OP
Charter Member
howard  Offline OP
Charter Member
H

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,287
I will admit to being a dopey old sod. The stretch of the M4 near me was for many years a variable limit stretch with big overhead matrix signs indicating the current limit. However, after spending literally millions over 3 years to install the gantries, they decided to make it a fixed 50 limit with the small round 50 signs at the side of the road and nothing showing on the overheads. Daytime this is no issue - all traffic slows down and I slow down with it, but last night I was returning home at 11pm in lashing rain and pre-occupied after handing over my boat to its new owner. So I forgot the new limit, no other traffic on the road to remind me, and I didnt notice / couldnt see the new 50 limit signs.

Cant even say what speed I was doing. Likely somewhere in the 65 / 75 or normal motorway speed. Wont be more, could be less. But whatever the speed, I did it for maybe 5 miles and at least 4 sets of cameras.

To make matters worse, on the journey out to the boat with the new owner in the car and trying to advise on how to handle the sail back up to Scotland, I did the same thing. Absolutely lashing down with rain so travelling slower but still likely above the 50 limit.

So even before a notice of prosecution arrives, can anyone recommend a really good motoring solicitor? And a question - if you pass through a series of cameras one after the other on the same journey and above the limit do you get a series of penalties. Could I get say 4 tickets and an automatic ban?

And yes I know I should have been observant but after decades of travelling the motorways with a 70 limit or with bright emergency signs showing a temporary lower limit, it really is easy just to cruise on, mind elsewhere.

Re: A silly old man! Me. :-( [Re: howard] #708988
07/07/21 07:41 AM
07/07/21 07:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 3,538
Northants, UK
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Posts: 3,538
Northants, UK
My understanding is you can only get done once on a stretch of road. You've only been speeding once, albeit for a long duration smile

I think you may be too much over the limit for a awareness course. Although after enduring the last one, I'd be tempted to take the points......


1972 4/4 4 seater - 3G Morganeer
Too many ratty motorbikes
Re: A silly old man! Me. :-( [Re: howard] #708989
07/07/21 07:44 AM
07/07/21 07:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,760
Suffolk
John V6 Offline
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John V6  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,760
Suffolk
Ditto . So this could be two tickets. Sorry I don't know a lawyer. If you are in the AA I think they provide legal cover free.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: A silly old man! Me. :-( [Re: howard] #708991
07/07/21 08:00 AM
07/07/21 08:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,183
Aberdeenshire
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Aberdeenshire
As above, I reckon .... if you kept your speed up then it's one offence (after all, if four coppers in a car saw you speeding in the old days it wouldn't be four offences .... likewise four cameras recording the same offence) .... tho if you slowed down for camera three and were above the limit again for camera four, say, it might be different.

Good luck.

K

Re: A silly old man! Me. :-( [Re: howard] #708995
07/07/21 08:35 AM
07/07/21 08:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,759
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Needs to Get Out More!

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,759
Hampshire
Very many years ago one of our salesteam left our office in Richmond in his brand new Nissan 200sx and headed home for Aldershot.

Speed cameras on the A316, M3 and Average speed on the A3 for a bit. He got hit twice on the A316 and once on the M3 start. He tried to claim a single offence, hired a lawyer and as a result they got a bit narcky with him and did him for three individual hits.

Sorry, not so good news from here but your circumstances are slightly different so I hold my fingers crossed for you.

Edit - just asked someone in the office and he pointed me at this if it helps.
https://www.thetrafficlawyer.com/blog/what-happens-if-caught-speeding-twice.html#:~:text=The%20general%20rule%20is%20that,the%20two%20or%20more%20offences.

"With over 5,000 speed camera in the UK, even the most cautious of drivers can find themselves in a situation where they are prosecuted. Where several speed cameras are deployed on the same road or motorway, the most obvious example being that of average speed cameras, drivers can run the risk of being caught speeding more than once on the same journey.

It has been questioned whether this would count as one offence or two.

The general rule is that where 2 speeding offences are deemed to have been committed 'over the course of the same journey, e.g. within a few minutes of each other, the Court can impose only one set of points for the two or more offences. The question really then becomes one of interpretation, as whether or not the offences will be treated separately or together, is at the discretion of the court. We have managed to successfully argue, for example, that a journey to and from somewhere on the same day could be considered as forming part of the one journey."

Last edited by Alistair; 07/07/21 08:37 AM.

Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: A silly old man! Me. :-( [Re: howard] #708998
07/07/21 09:02 AM
07/07/21 09:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 28,682
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
Tricky Dicky
+8Rich  Offline
Tricky Dicky
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 28,682
Devonshire
I would be inclined to send an email to Honest John and or Pistonheads and ask their opinion and or advise, they will be well versed about such matters.

The one saving grace you have is that you appeared not to have been 30mph above the limit which would have meant an instant ban should they see fit to do so, so take the positive out of that at least.

The same stretch of road is a semantics one to me and very open to interpretation legally, logic tells me at least two fines as you were travelling in the opposite direction on each occasion that you transgressed.

Do share your result so we can all learn from your experience.

Of course you do realise that it's the Karma from your selling of the boat coming around to bite you on the arse innocent


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1994 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: A silly old man! Me. :-( [Re: howard] #709001
07/07/21 09:16 AM
07/07/21 09:16 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 138
KENT
BLUE+4 Offline
L - Learner Plates On
BLUE+4  Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 138
KENT
Hi Howard,

It's so easy to get a speeding penalty these days.

I was returning home from work at Stratford East London one Sunday morning and I decided to take the Tower Bridge scenic route, no other cars on the road at that time (8am) and sun shining I was doing 32 mph. To my suprise I received a penalty notice some 6 - 8 weeks later, I had forgotten all about that journey home.

Whilst trying to find a way to avoid the fine and points I looked at the information sent with the notice which includes all the arguments other people have used trying to get out of it, and the result of their appeals ( which all seem to fail ).

Seeig that all my arguments had been tried by others and failed I took the points and fine £100 no chance of a speed awareness session as I was more than 50% over the speed limit 20mph.

Some time later I discovered that #THE PENALTY NOTICE MUST BE SENT WITHIN 1 MONTH OF THE OFFENCE# this can be the post date on the envelope not when it drops through your letter box. Had I have known this I could have saved my self a whole shed load of points and £100. as my notice was 6-8 weeks later.

Keep an eye on the dates and if this happens it's a way out.


Good luck mate....


Why is there only one monopolies commission??

Rob B.
Re: A silly old man! Me. :-( [Re: howard] #709002
07/07/21 09:16 AM
07/07/21 09:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
A
AndyrIch Offline
Just Getting Started
AndyrIch  Offline
Just Getting Started
A

Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
You may be lucky, if there is sufficient rain / spray your numberplate could well be unreadable.

Re: A silly old man! Me. :-( [Re: howard] #709009
07/07/21 10:29 AM
07/07/21 10:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 485
Bristol
M
MJF Offline
Learner Plates Off!
MJF  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
M

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 485
Bristol
Depending which stretch of the M4 you were on, the speed limit through the average speed section actually changes from 50mph up to 60mph for a stretch and then back down to 50mph. Unless you are paying attention in daylight it is very easy to miss the change from 50 to 60 and back down again.

You may therefore be lucky to have been speeding through the 60mph section and if you are at the lower end of your predicted speed range you may not be bruised as much as you think.

Re: A silly old man! Me. :-( [Re: howard] #709020
07/07/21 12:57 PM
07/07/21 12:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 723
Monmouthshire, Wales
F
Fuel.inj Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
Fuel.inj  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
F

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 723
Monmouthshire, Wales
You need a Lawyer who deals with professional footballers who always seem to get them off the hook due to finding some abnormality in the system. Wait and see what arrives through your letterbox first.

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