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(very) Wet Silverstone Weekend! #712437
01/08/21 08:42 PM
01/08/21 08:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 341
Cotswolds
Treesurveyor Offline OP
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Treesurveyor  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 341
Cotswolds
First time camping for over 7 years, I don't think I've ever had it so wet! However, great to see some fantastic racing, and lots of Mogs at the MSCC pitch; very warm thanks to those who were around to help me try a push start following battery failure, even though it didn't!. clap
Bizarrely, the battery now appears fine, having been down to 6.2V in the space of a few hours. I can only put it down to dampness through the louvres; that'll teach me to deploy my John Taylor in good time in future!
Appologies for not being able to name check you helpers, my name memory is shocking at the best of times, never mind under duress! Thanks again cheers Phil Cowpland

Last edited by Treesurveyor; 01/08/21 08:43 PM.

"DOT" 35th Anniversary Edition Plus 8- family owned from new. Rolls Royce Pewter.
06 Saab 93
Re: (very) Wet Silverstone Weekend! [Re: Treesurveyor] #712448
02/08/21 06:25 AM
02/08/21 06:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,001
London
MOG 615 Offline
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MOG 615  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,001
London
Phil

Your car has GEMS ignition/fuelling? A common (no very common) cause of the battery flattening is the back voltage through the ignition after switch off (sorry I am no auto electrician, so they will wince at this explanation)

The way to counter this is to fit a warning light into the circuit which warns you that this has happened , and when it does you cycle the ignition on and off again until the light extinguishes.

My car is Hotwire so I have not had to do this, but I ma sure others like Spanner Juggler or Rovert will be along soon to advise exactly where to place the additional wiring to feed the warning light.


Andy G
1999 +8 , Indigo Blue.
Ex-John McKecknie/Mike Duncan 1955 +4 racer.
Re: (very) Wet Silverstone Weekend! [Re: Treesurveyor] #712452
02/08/21 07:55 AM
02/08/21 07:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 341
Cotswolds
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Treesurveyor  Offline OP
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Cotswolds
Thanks Andy, Yes it is GEMS. I had subsequently searched this forum and come across that as a possible cause- I will delve further. Fortunately it has not been an issue before, but the ignition switch is becoming a little temperamental, so that may contribute to the relay failing to open/sticking closed? at switch off.

Last edited by Treesurveyor; 02/08/21 07:55 AM.

"DOT" 35th Anniversary Edition Plus 8- family owned from new. Rolls Royce Pewter.
06 Saab 93
Re: (very) Wet Silverstone Weekend! [Re: Treesurveyor] #712460
02/08/21 08:55 AM
02/08/21 08:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,289
Solihull
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Spanner Juggler  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,289
Solihull
Hi Phil

Yes, as Andy explained there have been isolated issues with an item called the 'Combined Relay' (some call it the Mulifunction Relay if your looking for parts) which is part of the GEMS system, its used to energies both the ignition and fuel injector systems. The problem occurs when you switch off the cars ignition, the Combined Relay is supposed to cut supply to the ignition and fuel system and it doesn't, it stays energised (Live).

Hope this is not teaching you to suck eggs but the item your looking for on a UK car is on the bulkhead top, alongside the heater box on the passenger side. Its black plastic and about half the size of a VHS cassette (that's a very crude guide, its been nearly 20 years!).

You will see a few wires entering its base. Now to confirm you have the correct component ask someone to turn on the ignition whilst you have your hand on it, you will feel it click and in a quiet garage you will hear the click. Turn off the ignition and after about 10-20 seconds it will (or rather should) click again as it switches off. The delay is down to the system gathering base settings for things such as the IACV (idle air control valve)... none of that is important now.

OK, you now need to find the output supply to the fuel system (Injector feed), for the life of me I cant recall the wire colour but with a simple 12v test lamp look for the wire that the test lamp is OFF with the ignition off (and the relay has clicked to shut it down) but goes live when you turn the ignition on AND then goes off again after you turn off the ignition and the relay clicks. Sounds complex I am sure but its not if you take it in stages.

This is the wire you need to break into for the warning light feed, I used a spare alarm LED (be aware they have a polarity so only work one way round) and simply wire it in somewhere out of your eye line so it doesn't distract you but you can visually check after you turn off the cars ignition, it should stay lit as I say for about 10-20 seconds then switch off.

This was just about the only issue I had with GEMS and maybe nothing to do with the GEMS itself as it only started after I had the car chipped so could be a fitting issue with the chip set or a software glitch. That car is still running fine today with its current owner and my crude work around is still working perfectly nearly 20 years later.

The real expert on GEMS was a chap called David Ashley-Pool who worked out the whole system and he came up with a much better fix using a small relay to supply the Combined Relay but I had already fitted my warning light by then, David saw my work on a trip when he came to stay with us and laughed his head off, typical bloody mechanic was his comment..... David was a Top of the tree test pilot on Harriers and other fast jets..... Top guy!

Hope that helps

BR
Colin


BR Colin
Who used to be a Spanner Juggler
Re: (very) Wet Silverstone Weekend! [Re: Treesurveyor] #712461
02/08/21 08:59 AM
02/08/21 08:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,289
Solihull
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Spanner Juggler  Offline
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Posts: 3,289
Solihull
Sorry Phil, real egg sucking this time as I read through what I typed, you run one side of the LED to the fuel Injector supply wire you have broken into and the other side of the LED to earth.



BR Colin
Who used to be a Spanner Juggler
Re: (very) Wet Silverstone Weekend! [Re: Treesurveyor] #712526
02/08/21 07:11 PM
02/08/21 07:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,596
Staffordshire
IvorMog Offline
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IvorMog  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,596
Staffordshire
Great event this year albeit a "bit" wet at times.

Over 60 Morgans in the club parking area and nice to meet up with members from other centres.

I'm always amazed how hard the drivers push these historic racing cars, some of which must have been a real handful in the wet.

Nice un-bodied Plus Four (or was it a Six) on the Allon White stand. I don't fancy DIY servicing one of these things.

Both the National and International paddocks were open to visit which, with all the racing, 120 car clubs and about 90 trade stands made for a very busy weekend.

Can't wait till next time.


Bob

2009 Black Roadster
1999 4/4 2 litre Zetec
Re: (very) Wet Silverstone Weekend! [Re: Spanner Juggler] #712530
02/08/21 07:40 PM
02/08/21 07:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 341
Cotswolds
Treesurveyor Offline OP
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Treesurveyor  Offline OP
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Posts: 341
Cotswolds
Thanks Colin- I like a simple work around and LED's and buzzers fit my level of KISS engineering! I'll archive your clear description for future if it becomes a problem. Thinking through, I have had some issues with a (now removed) DisCarNect on the negaative pole, blowing its fuse on ignition turn, indicating it wasnt making a good earth connectioin, and my fiddling with it may have inadvertently loosened the thread in pole-post. I havent had any repeat issues with charge retention- inspite of leaving the lights on for half a day (albeit with full LED side and number plate lighting). Charge levels seem fine, and the alternator checked out ok as well. Fingers crossed that there won't be any long term issues to the battery following the charge depletion, as the best value replacement I can find is a paltry £140.00


"DOT" 35th Anniversary Edition Plus 8- family owned from new. Rolls Royce Pewter.
06 Saab 93
Re: (very) Wet Silverstone Weekend! [Re: Treesurveyor] #712535
02/08/21 08:07 PM
02/08/21 08:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 25
J
jpeck Offline
Just Getting Started
jpeck  Offline
Just Getting Started
J

Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 25
Glad you managed to get it started hope you had a good run home... I managed to avoid all wet weather as soon as I left Silverstone smile


1996 4/4 connaught green

Billy
Re: (very) Wet Silverstone Weekend! [Re: jpeck] #712609
03/08/21 12:04 PM
03/08/21 12:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 341
Cotswolds
Treesurveyor Offline OP
Learner Plates Off!
Treesurveyor  Offline OP
Learner Plates Off!

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Posts: 341
Cotswolds
Thanks, managed a dryish midnight run home Saturday night, to collect the estate and get back Sunday morning, so I could de-camp in the rain!


"DOT" 35th Anniversary Edition Plus 8- family owned from new. Rolls Royce Pewter.
06 Saab 93

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