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Re: Electric Cars [Re: brownbaker] #730040
12/01/22 05:11 PM
12/01/22 05:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 488
oxfordshire
Julian BB Offline
formerly known as Hugh Jorgan
Julian BB  Offline
formerly known as Hugh Jorgan
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 488
oxfordshire
That's a very sobering and probably, very accurate, summing up of the situation as it stands today.

The gap between the have and have nots, the able and less able, is opening up. 'Levelling up' or what ever the latest sound bite is, is a nice thought but in reality, unlikely to happen.

EV's don't really float my boat, but they seem to be an inevitability, unless the 'grand marques' have got a different solution up their sleeves.

A huge swathe of the country have no hope of ever being able to afford to an EV and another equally large group, even if they can afford, have no realistic way of being able to charge near to their home.
Motoring, as we know it, and even our rose tinted Morgan owning view of the world, has changed for ever and is continuing to changing at such a pace that in 3-5 years the current situation will look like the 'good old days'!!

Re: Electric Cars [Re: brownbaker] #730042
12/01/22 05:13 PM
12/01/22 05:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,303
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Needs to Get Out More!

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,303
Hampshire
Tim, not meaning to dispute your stats but there was some interesting background on this I overheard a short time ago.

In order to hit targets for overall greeny values VW had a set number of ID models to ship in total.

The current market dynamic is very interesting.

Limited chips leading to prioritisation and restrictions.
ECO targets in order to avoid significant charges due to missing ECO targets. (examples of companies trading credits with Tesla)
Rapidly building BEV revenues due to BIK and tax offset economy benefits.
The great masses finally achieving enlightenment around the planet (I missed this memo 8) and it's needs

So in order to hit these targets and optimise the production priorities the manufacturers have to make hard decisions and predictions.

VW (Group) have made some pretty big gambles around BEV with the ID and various other elements. I am going to be naughty and say that this could be a mea culpa following dieselgate. Either way in this political climate of "BEV is good" has led to a great effort on their part. I still think they are on the ugly side but whatever.

So to hit the targets they predicted that the ID range would sell XX units. Chips were prioritised. Units made and transported.
However the rubber hits the road and things change.

The market did not purchase all of them and in order to hit the higher level targets meant that a number of the ID's ended up in the discount brokers and under significant offers. So their brand new premium volks offerings ended up being discounted. Had to hurt!

Last edited by Alistair; 12/01/22 06:09 PM. Reason: PEBKAC mode enabled.

Just time to rent a thimble more petrol before dinner.
Re: Electric Cars [Re: brownbaker] #730047
12/01/22 05:52 PM
12/01/22 05:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,009
South Yorks
Clipper Offline
Part of the Furniture
Clipper  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,009
South Yorks
Nobody needs to buy a new electric car there is a mass market for used vehicles from a few thousand quid upwards - tens of millions can’t afford a new ICE car.


2017 Ravenblau Blue Aero S5
2021 Lapis Blue Plus 6 evil You know it makes sense! thinking





Re: Electric Cars [Re: nick w] #730056
12/01/22 07:14 PM
12/01/22 07:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,588
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Scruffy Oik
Hamwich  Offline
Scruffy Oik
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,588
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by nick w

Is this the sort of society I can be happy about? Not really.


i quite agree. Rather than pay the consumer pay we could make the polluter pay and shift the costs on to the fossil fuel industry, but of course our government doesn't like that idea.

I know that he's a bit radical for some, but I have a lot of time for Dale Vince and his philosophy.


Originally Posted by nick w

Can I do anything about it? Not that I can see.

Honestly, it makes me feel guilty about the way I live.

Nick


One option is to change the way you live so that you don't feel guilty. I try hard to consume less and provide as much support as I can to local community interest companies like food banks and support functions, buying absolutely everything I possibly can from small local companies and suppliers.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
Re: Electric Cars [Re: brownbaker] #730062
12/01/22 09:07 PM
12/01/22 09:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,922
N
nick w Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
nick w  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
N

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,922
Nice ideas Tim, but we already do all that, as do all our middle class friends. My guilt comes more from not having the energy to make political fuss and/or organise noisy newspaper comments etc.
That sort of impotent citizen level guilt. Compounded by realising that I have been busy building my nest all my life when I could have been (in theory) working for a fairer society.
Add to that the fact that I only give what I can easily afford to food banks etc. when I could, in theory, sell the Mog and do alot more good. But no, I prefer to use my mog as, basically, an expensive toy. Don't even mention my guitar and piano collection.....you begin to see my problem?
smile
Nick

Re: Electric Cars [Re: brownbaker] #730066
12/01/22 09:52 PM
12/01/22 09:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 488
oxfordshire
Julian BB Offline
formerly known as Hugh Jorgan
Julian BB  Offline
formerly known as Hugh Jorgan
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 488
oxfordshire
It suits the ruling classes to spread the guilt for climate change on to the people.
We the guilt laden middle classes (I'm actually northern working class) are flogging ourselves recycling our Greek yogurt pots and organic quinoa packets, and in reality it is probably making almost no difference at all in the grand scheme of things.
China is probably pumping out more pollution into the atmosphere per day than the UK does in a year.
But...if we all do a bit then maybe it'll help.
I live in a very 'eco' house, I try to do my bit, but I must admit to never having felt guilty for my guitars.........

Re: Electric Cars [Re: Julian BB] #730068
12/01/22 11:04 PM
12/01/22 11:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 30,236
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
Tricky Dicky
+8Rich  Offline
Tricky Dicky
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 30,236
Devonshire
Amen to that but no guitars, 3 ICE and a penchant for the Salvation Army, it all works out in the end wink

It is only right that we all strike our own "consciousness" balance and not be dictated to by the ruling idiots or any other drum bangers imho.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Electric Cars [Re: Julian BB] #730074
13/01/22 08:50 AM
13/01/22 08:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,588
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Scruffy Oik
Hamwich  Offline
Scruffy Oik
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,588
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by nick w

That sort of impotent citizen level guilt. Compounded by realising that I have been busy building my nest all my life when I could have been (in theory) working for a fairer society.


One can hardly feel guilty for doing what we were all educated, trained, and expected to do. I'm wary of straying into Soapbox territory here, but I genuinely believe that the types of government we had prior to 2010 did at least honestly believe that what they were doing was best for the country, however mistaken we might have believed them to be at times. That seems no longer to be the case.

All we can do is to use our vote wisely, and promise to not get fooled again.

Originally Posted by Julian BB
It suits the ruling classes to spread the guilt for climate change on to the people. <snip>
But...if we all do a bit then maybe it'll help.
I live in a very 'eco' house, I try to do my bit, but I must admit to never having felt guilty for my guitars.........


Absolutely. Trying to do our bit is about all we have.

One source of inspiration for me of late has been since I joined our Parish Council. There's a lot 'out there' about which I can do nothing, but it's great to be able to be part of local initiatives that do actually make lives better for those in our village, however insignificant they might appear on the world stage - like figuring out a way to make more allotments available for folks to grow more veg.

As for feeling guilt over guitars: Want an easy way to feel really good? Give one of your guitars away to someone who wants to learn. I had an old Ovation acoustic that I donated to a local youngster who was desperate for something to play on, she absolutely loves it. I've also done a few setups for local kids who have bought cheap secondhand guitars that needed their action adjusting. There are lots of low-key ways one can do good in this world.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
Re: Electric Cars [Re: brownbaker] #730077
13/01/22 09:19 AM
13/01/22 09:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 923
Lytham St Annes, Lancashire
J
JohnHarris Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
JohnHarris  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
J

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 923
Lytham St Annes, Lancashire
The last noble act of any British Government (in the public interest) was the formation of the NHS. Every successive government since has followed an agenda that has not been in our best interests. From the squandering of natural resources like North Sea oil and gas revenues to the lack of investment in infrastructure to keep us economically competitive, especially when compared with other nations.

When it comes EV's and its role in helping deal with climate change, I think the jury is still out, at best they are an interim measure, at worst an expensive mistake. Future generations IMHO will lose the independence afforded by the ICE, as the EV initial cost and upcoming road pricing and other measures that will come into play eg blocking all traffic from city centres etc., will lead to a push to use public transport, great for urban areas but bad news for those with poor communication links. I believe we maybe the last generation that truly enjoys freedom of movement, as restrictions and increasing energy costs will create a new type of mobility poverty. So enjoy it while you can, if Covid has taught us anything, Governments are very prepared and capable of restricting individual freedoms for the common good.


John
2008 Roadster 4 seater FELIX
prev 2006 4/4 70th LOKI
prev 1977 4/4 SEAMUS
prev 1985 4/4 MOLLY
Re: Electric Cars [Re: Hamwich] #730084
13/01/22 10:47 AM
13/01/22 10:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,922
N
nick w Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
nick w  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
N

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,922
Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by nick w

That sort of impotent citizen level guilt. Compounded by realising that I have been busy building my nest all my life when I could have been (in theory) working for a fairer society.


One can hardly feel guilty for doing what we were all educated, trained, and expected to do. I'm wary of straying into Soapbox territory here, but I genuinely believe that the types of government we had prior to 2010 did at least honestly believe that what they were doing was best for the country, however mistaken we might have believed them to be at times. That seems no longer to be the case.

All we can do is to use our vote wisely, and promise to not get fooled again.

Originally Posted by Julian BB
It suits the ruling classes to spread the guilt for climate change on to the people. <snip>
But...if we all do a bit then maybe it'll help.
I live in a very 'eco' house, I try to do my bit, but I must admit to never having felt guilty for my guitars.........


Absolutely. Trying to do our bit is about all we have.

One source of inspiration for me of late has been since I joined our Parish Council. There's a lot 'out there' about which I can do nothing, but it's great to be able to be part of local initiatives that do actually make lives better for those in our village, however insignificant they might appear on the world stage - like figuring out a way to make more allotments available for folks to grow more veg.

As for feeling guilt over guitars: Want an easy way to feel really good? Give one of your guitars away to someone who wants to learn. I had an old Ovation acoustic that I donated to a local youngster who was desperate for something to play on, she absolutely loves it. I've also done a few setups for local kids who have bought cheap secondhand guitars that needed their action adjusting. There are lots of low-key ways one can do good in this world.

Yes, nice post Tim. Good thoughts.
Nick

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