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Re: German Write off [Re: xc68anc] #743413
01/06/22 08:44 AM
01/06/22 08:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,562
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Needs to Get Out More!

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,562
Hampshire
Is the issue that they need to use the crate engine as it arrives in order for it to pass type approval/emissions etc in order to meet compliance. As mentioned before a fatter car has less issue as the ass will absorb the power and weight will improve traction. Until it does let go and then rotation/ditches remain the same option!

I would never suggest that anyone has three years before this will be MoT tested and consider a (warranty) re map to reduce and smooth the lower end. Applying a tune to make a 140hp engine produce 200hp is a bad thing but softening and adjusting the shape of the map at the lower end seems less obstructive? Bloke with a laptop, not so difficult, there are dozens of quite practiced people out there with skills around the N58. My guess is that it would make it a lot nicer to drive without the big step in the power curve, or should I call it torque plateau.

Using the custom option to soften it here maybe https://williamsperformance.co.uk/products/b58-custom-tune-by-odin-tuned. Maybe the dealers will come in on it to protect their demo cars!


Just time to rent a thimble more petrol before dinner.
Re: German Write off [Re: xc68anc] #743421
01/06/22 10:01 AM
01/06/22 10:01 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,463
Llanelli
sospan Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
sospan  Offline
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,463
Llanelli
I think the kickdown control on the autu box is too severe. The combination of engine map and gearbox control seem ok for the heavier BMW originals. I agree that a “ detune” of the map to compensate for less weight would be a good move. Maybe a selector to choose map variants. More cars seem to begetting this option. Even the basic bottom end map would deliver a good performance in a lighter than BMW barge car like the Plus6.
Out of curiosity, what map changes does the Odin offer? Just tuneUP or a TuneDown? I haven’t had a look at the options offered.
When driving a manual you can moderate your right foot, stay in higher gear to prevent sudden torque snatching.
It creates a gentler, smoother power control. A handy technique in the wet.


Red Plus8
Re: German Write off [Re: xc68anc] #743424
01/06/22 10:28 AM
01/06/22 10:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,069
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Peter J  Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,069
Salisbury, UK
As Alistair and Sospan have said, the problem is that the B58 engine reaches peak torque at less than 1500 rpm. The absolute value isn't much different from that of the engine in the Plus 8, the difference is that the peak torque is reached at 3400 rpm, so it is much easier to modulate the torque through the throttle and gears. A remap to move peak torque to 2500 rpm would be a big help, add in TC and ESP and then the PlusSix becomes a delight.


Peter,
66, my 2016 Porsche Boxster S
Tarka 2014 Plus 8....Off the road, since March!


Re: German Write off [Re: Peter J] #743428
01/06/22 11:01 AM
01/06/22 11:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,309
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
Talk Morgan Sage
Heinz  Offline
Talk Morgan Sage

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,309
Köln Germany
Originally Posted by Peter J
As Alistair and Sospan have said, the problem is that the B58 engine reaches peak torque at less than 1500 rpm. The absolute value isn't much different from that of the engine in the Plus 8, the difference is that the peak torque is reached at 3400 rpm, so it is much easier to modulate the torque through the throttle and gears. A remap to move peak torque to 2500 rpm would be a big help, add in TC and ESP and then the PlusSix becomes a delight.



+1

Yes, I also believe that with today's programming possibilities one can design a beautiful NA-like flow. Of course, it costs time and money, and then there are the emission regulations. I'm not an expert, but it could be that such regulations stand in the way of such an approach.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: German Write off [Re: Alistair] #743448
01/06/22 02:48 PM
01/06/22 02:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,557
H
howard Offline
Charter Member
howard  Offline
Charter Member
H

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,557
Originally Posted by Alistair
Is the issue that they need to use the crate engine as it arrives in order for it to pass type approval/emissions etc in order to meet compliance. As mentioned before a fatter car has less issue as the ass will absorb the power and weight will improve traction. Until it does let go and then rotation/ditches remain the same option!


Possibly. Lotus were and are very limited in what they can do to the Toyota engines they use without losing the Toyota engine guarantee.

Re: German Write off [Re: xc68anc] #743450
01/06/22 03:14 PM
01/06/22 03:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 39
MikeFromPembroke Offline
Just Getting Started
MikeFromPembroke  Offline
Just Getting Started

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 39
As a Plus 6 driver for over a year and now covered 6000 miles, I find it delightful just as it is……

Mike
1982 4/4
1999 +4
2004 Roadster S1
2010 Roadster S2
2021 Plus 6

Last edited by MikeFromPembroke; 01/06/22 08:03 PM. Reason: Signature added

Mike
1982 4/4
2004 Roadster S1
2010 Roadster S2
2021 Plus 6
Re: German Write off [Re: MikeFromPembroke] #743470
01/06/22 05:47 PM
01/06/22 05:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,312
Lampeter, Wales
Jon G4LJW Offline
Has a lot to Say!
Jon G4LJW  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,312
Lampeter, Wales
Originally Posted by MikeFromPembroke
As a Plus 6 driver for over a year and now covered 6000 miles, I find it delightful just as it is……


Good to hear!

Re: German Write off [Re: Jon G4LJW] #743476
01/06/22 06:12 PM
01/06/22 06:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,100
Northern Capital of Cool
CooperMan Offline
Just barreling along
CooperMan  Offline
Just barreling along
Charter Member

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,100
Northern Capital of Cool
Originally Posted by Jon G4LJW
Originally Posted by MikeFromPembroke
As a Plus 6 driver for over a year and now covered 6000 miles, I find it delightful just as it is……


Good to hear!


Indeed, well done sir thumbs


Jon M
Re: German Write off [Re: MikeFromPembroke] #743477
01/06/22 06:16 PM
01/06/22 06:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,020
Devonshire
+8Rich Online content
Tricky Dicky
+8Rich  Online Content
Tricky Dicky
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,020
Devonshire
Originally Posted by MikeFromPembroke
As a Plus 6 driver for over a year and now covered 6000 miles, I find it delightful just as it is……

I'm sure you are the typical owner who knows exactly what he is buying into and there are a great many of you, enjoy your miles thumbs

The problem with TM and many other forum is that only the bad news comes to light, those that are happy don't shout about it wink

All the gadgetry in the world won't save the fools out there, it's natural selection we just have to hope we don't meet one on their lemming journey..


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: German Write off [Re: +8Rich] #743482
01/06/22 07:29 PM
01/06/22 07:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,812
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Scruffy Oik
Hamwich  Offline
Scruffy Oik
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,812
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by +8Rich
'm sure you are the typical owner who knows exactly what he is buying into and there are a great many of you, enjoy your miles thumbs


Absolutely, there are plenty of Morgan enthusiasts out there who want what the Plus Six delivers, and are skilled and wise enough to drive them properly. For them, it's a wonderful car.

I'm a little bit concerned however that especially for those new to the Morgan ownership experience, the desire to have the 'Top of the Range' model might outweigh the need for a more circumspect approach, especially if age is starting to erode the skills of youth. For many/most/nearly all purchasers, I believe the Plus Four makes a much more usable option.

I'm pretty sure I no longer have the reaction times and handling skills to make a Plus 6 a safe choice for me. Actually TBH a Plus Four might be a bit much as well. I'm perfectly content with my 165bhp.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
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