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Re: German Write off [Re: Hamwich] #743483
01/06/22 07:41 PM
01/06/22 07:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,020
Devonshire
+8Rich Online content
Tricky Dicky
+8Rich  Online Content
Tricky Dicky
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,020
Devonshire
Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by +8Rich
'm sure you are the typical owner who knows exactly what he is buying into and there are a great many of you, enjoy your miles thumbs


Absolutely, there are plenty of Morgan enthusiasts out there who want what the Plus Six delivers, and are skilled and wise enough to drive them properly. For them, it's a wonderful car.

I'm a little bit concerned however that especially for those new to the Morgan ownership experience, the desire to have the 'Top of the Range' model might outweigh the need for a more circumspect approach, especially if age is starting to erode the skills of youth. For many/most/nearly all purchasers, I believe the Plus Four makes a much more usable option.

I'm pretty sure I no longer have the reaction times and handling skills to make a Plus 6 a safe choice for me. Actually TBH a Plus Four might be a bit much as well. I'm perfectly content with my 165bhp.

A lot of truth in there in that some new owners have to have the top of the range no matter what that means in reality but at this price point a lot of owners will be people that appreciate and understand cars that can bite, I have read enough about the Plus Six to know that I do not possess the reactions or talent to use one.

The Plus 8 with it's 190bhp keeps my attention at all times and can and will bite readily so I'm happy to stay with it until the day comes when I can no longer get under it or get in it.

I am a total devotee to the vee eight music and it was the reason why I didn't go for a Plus Four last year at the last moment, this could have been a good thing bearing in mind slowing reaction times.

I definitely would have lost my cool over the radiator debacle too....


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: German Write off [Re: xc68anc] #743486
01/06/22 08:17 PM
01/06/22 08:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 103
France, Dunkerque
G
gaston Offline
L - Learner Plates On
gaston  Offline
L - Learner Plates On
G

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 103
France, Dunkerque
The fear of not being able to control the monster in the rain made me choose the Plus Four. Too bad, the Plus six is ​​a fantastic car.

Re: German Write off [Re: xc68anc] #743498
02/06/22 08:36 AM
02/06/22 08:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 622
Bergisches Land (near Cologne)
Jens Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
Jens  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 622
Bergisches Land (near Cologne)
Maybee, Gaston, but the Plus Four looks better...

Last edited by Jens; 02/06/22 08:36 AM.

2003 Morgan 4/4 2-seater

Re: German Write off [Re: +8Rich] #743506
02/06/22 11:01 AM
02/06/22 11:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,338
Eton, Berks
Aeroman Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
Aeroman  Offline
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,338
Eton, Berks
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by +8Rich
'm sure you are the typical owner who knows exactly what he is buying into and there are a great many of you, enjoy your miles thumbs


Absolutely, there are plenty of Morgan enthusiasts out there who want what the Plus Six delivers, and are skilled and wise enough to drive them properly. For them, it's a wonderful car.

I'm a little bit concerned however that especially for those new to the Morgan ownership experience, the desire to have the 'Top of the Range' model might outweigh the need for a more circumspect approach, especially if age is starting to erode the skills of youth. For many/most/nearly all purchasers, I believe the Plus Four makes a much more usable option.

I'm pretty sure I no longer have the reaction times and handling skills to make a Plus 6 a safe choice for me. Actually TBH a Plus Four might be a bit much as well. I'm perfectly content with my 165bhp.

A lot of truth in there in that some new owners have to have the top of the range no matter what that means in reality but at this price point a lot of owners will be people that appreciate and understand cars that can bite, I have read enough about the Plus Six to know that I do not possess the reactions or talent to use one.

The Plus 8 with it's 190bhp keeps my attention at all times and can and will bite readily so I'm happy to stay with it until the day comes when I can no longer get under it or get in it.

I am a total devotee to the vee eight music and it was the reason why I didn't go for a Plus Four last year at the last moment, this could have been a good thing bearing in mind slowing reaction times.

I definitely would have lost my cool over the radiator debacle too....

I note your last comment Richard, but in fairness much larger manufacturers also have ‘issues’ with cars often resulting in recalls. The CX-model line also went through the BMW new car programme and was extensively tested and driven on their test track, the first Morgan to do so and nothing untoward was found on the car and it was signed off by BMW.

As regards the Plus 6 and its driveability , I currently have a Plus 6 courtesy car whilst my Plus 8 has some work done at the Works and it certainly makes for an exhilarating drive with effortless performance - faster than the Plus 8 too. As any Aero-Plus 8 driver is aware there is no electronic stability control on the car, part of its charm and in the rain or damp conditions one has to be pretty circumspect with the right foot. My own car has been chipped with an emphasis on torque rather than peak power. The base Plus 8 (Aero) develops 490 Nm @ 3400 rpm, I do not know the actual figure for my chipped car, but it is certainly higher than the 500Nm that the Plus 6 develops though in its case from a low 1600 rpm all the way to 4500 rpm.

The Plus 8 has a BMW derived ZF 6-speed auto box (on my car) and on kick-down in sport setting it usually changes down one gear, the Plus 6 has a more modern version of this box again BMW derived, but with 8-speeds and on kick-down particularity at median speeds in sport setting, it changes down quite often two gears and sometimes three gears! I personally feel it is not necessarily the torque generated that is the issue per se, but if you kick-down and change down three gears and then get 500 Nm of torque delivered it will break traction on a very light car, especially in wet or slippery conditions.

I’m sure that many new owners to the marque are used to the modern cars “nanny state” with electronics sorting out the indiscretions caused by a heavy right foot, but I feel that even the 350 NM of the Plus 4 if indiscriminately used is enough to cause a problem. Caveat emptor, maybe MMC should have an insert in the handbook for newbies to the marque! oops


Brian

1970 Morgan Plus 8 - Moss Box (was Black, now in the original Indigo Blue)
2014 Morgan SP1 (Rocket Red)
2015 Morgan Plus 8 (Rocket Blue)
2022 Morgan Threewheeler (Colour TBC)
Re: German Write off [Re: xc68anc] #743512
02/06/22 12:38 PM
02/06/22 12:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,312
Lampeter, Wales
Jon G4LJW Offline
Has a lot to Say!
Jon G4LJW  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,312
Lampeter, Wales
The handbook does say, “ …..it is recommended that the owner undergoes advanced driver training….” - but who reads handbooks or instruction manuals?

Re: German Write off [Re: xc68anc] #743554
03/06/22 11:32 AM
03/06/22 11:32 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,463
Llanelli
sospan Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
sospan  Offline
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,463
Llanelli
My thoughts are along aeroman’s. A hard kickdown with multiple downshifts puts the car into the high torque region resulting in rear end traction reduction.
The more power/torque an engine puts out needs learning to control through the right foot.
I learned my trad Plus8’s response gradually over varied driving. Small liberties only with selected places to test.
There’s no need to be on the limits on roads, as opposed to track, but learning the car’r response can mean better enjoyment. Reading road conditions adds to that.


Red Plus8
Re: German Write off [Re: xc68anc] #743558
03/06/22 02:11 PM
03/06/22 02:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,365
Solihull
Spanner Juggler Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
Spanner Juggler  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,365
Solihull
Accelerator pedals move in 2 directions, I have driven some vehicles, competition and pre production evaluation ‘test beds’ that were scary and on the point of being lethal. All of them had throttles that would return to idle. I have ridden a couple of insane motorbikes, one (Hyabusa) would pick the front wheel up at 100MPH if you wound the throttle fully open, again it would bimble along at 5MPH if required.

Like many things in life it’s all about self control surely, there are many things I would have liked to have tried when I was younger and had better reactions but would never try them without considerable training and advice. Playing with the limits where someone else is likely to be hurt in an on the public road situation is foolhardy at least.

My own stupidity and belief that I was indestructible caused me to leave various parts of rally cars all over Wales and Yorkshire but as I had a consenting adult strapped into the passenger seat it was acceptable, jumping into a high power vehicle without considering what it’s capabilities were are a recipe for trouble.

Running out of ability takes you straight to the scene of the accident.

BR
Colin


BR Colin
Who used to be a Spanner Juggler
Re: German Write off [Re: xc68anc] #743560
03/06/22 02:37 PM
03/06/22 02:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 20,437
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 20,437
South Yorkshire
Sadly we see the outcome of self belief over real ability quite frequently with fast cars. You Tube is full of live action idiocy.


DaveW
'05 Red Roadster S1
'16 Yellow (Not the only) Narrow AR GDI Plus 4
Re: German Write off [Re: xc68anc] #743601
03/06/22 09:34 PM
03/06/22 09:34 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,463
Llanelli
sospan Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
sospan  Offline
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,463
Llanelli
I drove the Mog to play golf this morning. About 5 miles there but took a longer route back. Well known routes with places you don’t take liberties and some where you can....but up to a limit. Winding roads that allow a combination of sensible enjoyment and careful driving. Passed a couple of horse riders...slowly and big gap. Heard a comment from a rider “ I want one of those”. Probably meant the car not me!
On the way back I was 3 cars behind a car doing 25 in a 40 limit. The two cars between were crawling over each others boots and passed on a brow. Luckily no near misses. Neither were high powered so not quick moves. Me? Just trundled along behind as no need to spurt past. The Plus8 had the capability to do it but why? Had my fun earlier reading the road and enjoying the feeling. No high speeds just making progress.
So, should I modify the standard tune V8 to get more ? No. I don’t need more power/torque. It’s road car not a track car for competition. No need to chase power. The torque is in a decent place and rev management kicks in more if desired.


Red Plus8
Re: German Write off [Re: xc68anc] #743611
04/06/22 05:14 AM
04/06/22 05:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,098
Lytham St Annes, Lancashire
J
JohnHarris Offline
Has a lot to Say!
JohnHarris  Offline
Has a lot to Say!
J

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,098
Lytham St Annes, Lancashire
Torque is great to have on tap and available when you need it , but in reality how much of your driving requires a massive continuous reserve of torque? I find I have more issues with trying to access the torque reserves either through poor gear ratio spacing or poor road surfaces and lack of traction thru the rear wheels especially in damp or wet conditions, that sometimes its a hinderance to smooth fast overtaking in anything other than dry, level roads with no undulations so I rarely use the torque reserves to their full potential because of other limiting factors. Its great for those rare journeys where everything comes together, but I normally have the wife with me, I tend to be very circumspect unless I know the conditions are absolutely perfect to execute a safe manoeuvre.


John
2008 Roadster 4 seater FELIX
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