As many have realised I've been mulling over changing my now 9 year old Plus 8 for something younger.
I've not reached a decision, much will depend on what the cause of the electronic/electrical failures is.
Wasting this afternoon looking at cars on the MMC used car search it became clear that nearly new 2022 Plus Fours and low milage 2020 Plus Sixes can be had for much the same money, £79,995.

Two examples....
A Plus Four... https://www.morgan-motor.com/williams-morgan/used-car/2021-plus-four-in-porsche-marine-blue-8887/. New Today £79955. A 2020 Plus Four would be about £73,000 so £7,000 depreciation in 2 years or 11%
A Plus Six.... https://www.morgan-motor.com/williams-morgan/used-car/2020-plus-six-in-ice-blue-9165/. New today £95,000 so only £15,000 depreciation or 6% ...that it is less than the PlusFour surprised me.

Which direction would you go?

The Plus Four with wire wheels or a Plus Six with more modern wheels, possibly my AeroMax wheels from the Plus 8?

Peter, go with the model that best suits your driving style or expectation the Plus Four auto I think is a favourite.

Depreciation is for bankers, life is far too short spend it and enjoy it

Just make sure you buy one of these though - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9XAC-BvUyo

Plus Four with alloy wheels.

1) Its got enough power
2) Life is too short to spend time cleaning spokes
3) Alloy wheels are lighter than wire wheels
4) Life is too short to spend time cleaning spokes
5) The newer car includes more of the fixes resolved by the MMC development team (AKA customers)
6) Life is too short to spend time cleaning spokes

Absolutely this - although personally at 255bhp/tonne I'd say it has more than enough power

Classic sports cars have wires.

That's all.

I accept accusations of bias, however….
Plus Four with wire wheels is the answer.
Tbh I only end up wiping the outside of the wire wheels when polishing with the detailer (although admit I have just bought some Meguilars Stainless Steel cleaner to have some fun (!), so they really aren’t any hassle… and you get plenty of wheel spin from the power if you needed (plus pops in S or S+ mode) with the auto box….On the driving day at Bicester this was even with the 3rd Gear with the flappy paddles on track (may have been 4th but I was too busy giggling as I drifted to see…).
Defo Plus Four imho
Good luck driving both to confirm this 😇
HB

Isn’t the original Plus 8 a classic sports car then Dave? It was only available with alloys originally.

I will choose the Plus Four for several reasons.
1 - The Plus Six is ​​a starter series with some lack of development.
2 - The seats on MY 22 are much more comfortable.
3 - I think thePlus Four n is more than powerful enough.
4 - I'm afraid of the ecological madness of governments. CO2 taxes are likely to be expensive in the future.
5 -The Plus Four in blue with those wire wheels is devilishly beautiful.
This is only my opinion and engages only me.

At the time, it was thought that wires couldn't take the torque from the V8.

There may have also been a desire by MMC to make the Plus 8 distinctive. So its a mark of that era.
Those early Plus 8 alloys are certainly rough cast, and although I like that look, wires look way better.

Imitation wires?

You'll all be wanting autos next.....

My stainless steel wires are quicker to clean than alloys on the Land Rover or Merc.

Automatic plus Four on alloys. It is narrower and you might just keep your license. My preference is for the far less sophisticated trad, Belle works for me.

I would go for the Plus Six Peter to maintain the V8 grunt you are used to and with alloy wheels. Then customise and modify over a period of time to make it a safer and an even more comfortable car in keeping with the Morgan ethos of old. I'm thinking along the lines of SSL makeover then incorporating present and future factory changes.

The power to weight ratio of the +4 isn't much less than the Tesla, which is absolutely fast enough.
The Blue Plus 4 is wonderful, but I'm no big fan of spokes.
The AeroMax wheels on Tarka will fit on a Plus Six, but not a Plus Four.
Decisions..Decisions...

As you appear to be looking for a second hand Morgan and not specifying your own build, I would keep an open mind and go with the car that most appeals to you aesthetically and has the right level of specification that will facilitate your driving pleasure and style. Both models are fast enough to get you into trouble, as well as create those magical halcyon moments when necessary. If you rarely drive in the wet (not something I do by design or choice in a Morgan) then the Plus six with care I'm sure is addictive coupled with an auto box to take the strain out of congestion traffic.

The car has to physically appeal to me in the first place, like one of those moments when you eg come across a bevy of Morgans, you may find you naturally gravitate to one or 2 cars whose colour and spec makes you slightly envious and you linger longer around those cars...those are usually the ones for me. The model specific idiosyncratic features hopefully you can iron out over time.

I never keep a car that I start to lose confidence in and cannot rely upon, life's too short to spend it in garages resolving the same or similar problems. Wires are a great static display attribute sparling in the sun, but maybe not as much fun going down an undulating rough road, compared to alloys

A longer test drive of both including in the wet given you do use your P&J ?

Peter - definitely a Plus Four- I find it has plenty of power, even with 2 e-bikes and luggage on the back. It is nimble- even on Irish back roads. I had a test drive in a plus six and reckon it is just too powerful to be a relaxing drive unlike the plus four. Best of luck with your decision - do call and show us when on your next trip to the Emerald Isle

Cheers!!

It was suggested by my dealer principle that the Plus 6 was too powerful; not that I am unused to HP and I had just sold my Ferrari. My Plus Four is more than quick enough.

Having tested both back to back, I just didn't bond with the ratios of the manual, the auto felt much better matched to the engine, although a little ashamed to admit it...auto for me

I've been driving automatic transmission cars since 2000, starting with the relatively crude 4 speed unit in the Mercedes 190 up to the 8 speed one in the Mercedes C43. I wouldn't go back.
Mind you, the lack of a gearbox in the Tesla is compelling: it is always in the right gear, so it is easy to precisely control speed and a request for power is met with an instant response. But the delivery of power and torque isn't quite that simple, as this graph shows...



There is a lot of power and torque management going on to make it feel like continuous power, but it isn't.

Peter having owned several Merc autos since 2000 I think here the issue is how far down the gears the BMW drops it. The cars (plus four & six) always seem on song & the power massive. On the plus six in particular I didn't feel in control. If you floor it and it drops 4 gears your in trouble as there is no teaction control

The plus 4 is more than quick enough for real world roads and drivers.....

Take a hell of a long test drive in both and buy the best.....
There are so many plus 4's sat with dealers, who are in direct competition with the factory sales dept, there must be potential for some amazing deals.
You must get the upgraded seats though...!!!

Just a reminder, the spoked wheels on the Plus four need adapters that bolt to the 5 hole wheel hubs and add a lot of weight. They are not original central wheel hubs. That's why I would take a Plus four with alloy wheels. Whether it is a Four or Six I can not judge, I have not driven both. Without ESP it would be for me probably the Four with autobox because the manual gearbox what you read has so long gears that you can use only three of six gears if you want to rev up the engine a bit.
The fact of better seats in the newer cars would also be relevant to me. But I would definitely also test drive a Plus six. Much has been written here about choosing the right driving program so that the automatic doesn't shift down two gears, and then driving should remain more manageable.

My idle thoughts, for what they're worth..

I've driven both versions of the CX and even drove the Six in a pair of new shoes..! Bit brave, that. That they are the most capable & dynamic cars the factory have produced to date is without question. From the thunk of the door closing to the composure of the suspension, the cars are a delight to drive. Totally different to the Trads and a lot more composed than the alloy chassis V's. Once you get over this revelation and settle in to adding some miles, I found them to be just like any other modern car to drive.

And for me, that's the issue. There was no theatre, no sense of specialness or occasion, just a very normal driving sensation. I found both cars steering a bit dead, and an auto box a bit like losing control. There's very little control over engine braking, and you simply can't enjoy driving the car on the throttle only. You have to brake which unsettles the drive. The big engine is quite frankly very intimidating. Put your foot down & you're never quite sure whether the downshift will stay at just one gear or spool up & drop three. I found it very unsettling not to have that full control.

Of course, all of this applies to the Four too. Just less so. It would be a manual every time for me, but the engine is soulless. Even with sports exhausts, a four doesn't sound special enough. You can get much the same audio with an old Ka..!

My advice Peter, would be to stick with Tarka. Just get any electronics sorted, or even drop to an engine only electronics and run the rest as a normal wiring set up.

In truth, the issue I have with the new CX range is the lack of character. I'm not an inveterate fiddler, but I can't deny the pleasures of what Mrs SBM termed 'faffing' with the car, and the CX's simply don't allow for that.

The sweet spot is still a Trad for me, and if you enjoy the theatre of a Morgan then a big Vee in eight or six versions, stick with it. They are toys after all, and once you get past all the testosterone stuff, who cares if they drink fuel..? Not many things make you giggle with childish delight as you get older..!

Steve, I couldn't have put it better.

Completely sums it up for me.
I think the cx platform is for a new generation who don't have a desire for the uncluttered driving I experienced in my yoof and still enjoy.
So I totally applaud the factory for keeping up to date and continuing to offer exciting cars in the modern market, they just aren't for me. And that's before I even think about the expense!
Nick

PS I'd like to add that I did drive back to back at the factory a supersport and an aero plus 8 like Peter's one.
It remains vivid in my memory as I had Steve M next to me. He was very restrained when the supersport started to go sideways (I say the road was greasy) he just said "we've only got one of these you know" for which I admired him.
I didn't enjoy the supersport but I thought the plus 8 aero was fabulous. All the right sounds and traditional feel.
I do hope you keep yours Peter, though my betting money is on you going to a plus six...
Nick

The question of fuel costs is subjective, if you are only doing a couple of thousands miles a year in the Morgan then no big deal, but if you intend to also use it for continental touring each year and putting the miles on, its not just a case of the fuel cost but also the increased frequency of having to stop and refuel. I remember one fast journey in my 911 Turbo cabriolet roof down to London and I had nearly emptied my petrol tank after 100 miles, I had to fill up 3 times to go to London and back about 480 miles, I'd would have made as good a time overall allowing for fuel stops in the wife's car at the time a Peugeot 106GTI with probably only one fuel stop and had just as much fun. I used to hate having to refuel with the mixed petrol/diesel pumps with diesel splashed everywhere with a decent suit on and it gets on your shoes etc on your way to a business meeting.

Steve,

If you think the CX cars are soulless drive a Tesla!!

Tom at Williams is still trying to isolate the cause of the fault: it seems there is a control module that they re-programmed last time and that will not always re-program. They will fit another module and program it, and then it is a matter of "wait and see" as it is not possible to find out why the control module generates these faults.

This is the future of modern cars? I do hope not.

Too late Peter, it's already here!

Graham. I’m not sure if I like it!

I’m very glad that I am;

a. Retired
and b. Living away from the rat race.

Bud
4/4 - Stanley

Simon,
I am not enamoured of all the modern electronics either.
My everyday commutacar, all 95 bhp of it, has totally unnecessary electronic systems such as traction and stability control, hill start (a real PITA) and numerous other "aids".
I'm with Colin, aka Spanner Juggler, when it comes to moderating right foot

I absolutely loathe the hill start on my abarth. Messes up a proper hill start completely.
Nick

I gave a trad Plus8 2002. Love it. Stepped up from a ‘93 4/4 and learned the difference in torque input. A few nice rear end twitches that induced smiles.
When the CX cars were launched I wa# thinking of getting one. Still not test driven though. I held back waiting for the inevitable typically Morgan glitches to get found by owners and sorted!
Glad I did!
Will I take plunge when (if) the cars get sorted? I don’t know. I’d miss the V8 . Will the ride be smoother? Less hands on as age creeps on ( mine). IF I do then it will likely be my last Morgan
With the prospective timescale for the current recall there is no urgency to test.
Also. Spend ££££ on new CX or a fraction of that on the Plus8?
I’ve missed the miles over Covid and starting to settle back into adding miles and smiles again.
Off out this afternoon to Oxwich on Gower. Park in the hotel ( free), Walk the dog along the beach, soft drink ( maybe sandwich) in the hotel garden taking in the stunning view across the bay......

There will be a few plus fours and sixes for sale after this latest debacle Phill, but I have to say the plus six is the only car that would tempt me back to Mog ownership Morgan have made a cracking car and best finished to date even with the issues.

having the manual +Four, I would advise to buy the automatic, that really suits the engine

If you haven't already done so, see if your retailer will give you a car over night or better yet rent one for the weekend.

I was very much in the same boat as you in that I was wanting to move to a CX but felt unsure. While I am in a Trad and not an Aero, the musings you have stated were much the same.

I've not fully decided on if a CX will one day grace my garage but the draw to one has diminished slightly. My car had massive suspension issues and was feeling a bit 'old' for being 6 years old. I then finally got back to my main retailer and had all that sorted so the love is back.

However, the idea of more cabin room, spec'ing a car again etc still lingers.

I echo all that has been said about the CX within this and other threads. It's a fantastic car yet has it's flaw. One very odd one that sticks out was the constant running of the radiator fans which came on in full force within mins of driving. It's all I could hear which took away from the experience. The other was the duality of its character. The car is so much better composed than my car and begged to be pushed but doing so felt strange. And with so much power I felt I was constantly wanting to push it. Yet the other part of me wanted to settle down and drive it as I do my Trad. I appreciate this probably isn't translating well but in short, I walked away scratching my head lol.

Back to the long test drive. If I were to order one, I would pony up for a weekend rental to give me time to fully live with it. I backed away from contemplating a build based on a short drive which turned me off the car but something in the back of my head lingers and questions if I perhaps shouldn't judge it after a short experience.

Lastly, if you are going down the pre-owned route, do brush up on all the minor upgrades in regards to the top, seals etc. I recall Williams had two Plus Fours that were built within months of each other and another when the Plus Four just launched. The difference in door and top seals between all three were significant. The oldest having random cuts of rubber, the middle with a set-up looking a tad more polished and the third having moulded bespoke seals. I'll try and dig out the pics I took if they are of interest.

Good luck

P

They are some details added on the latest plus four an plus six ,but
In the same time the price increased from 94000 euros to 125000 euros for the plus six and from 94000 euros to 104000 euros for the plus four.
I dont know if this worth that increase of price. You can find
a 3 years plus six or 2 years plus four at a better price.For info the radiator leak is annoing but you can drive as it is only few drops leaking.

We will see later if the master cylinder change will improve the braking.

Perry P M3W said:

“However, the idea of more cabin room, spec'ing a car again etc still lingers.”

It is easier to get in and out of but once inside it feels smaller than a trad Plus 4. There is no room for anything. The extra width of the body is lost by all the extra padding on the doors. The glovebox is tiny and there are no elasticated door pockets. No central tunnel to put things on now as this is all wood and handbrake.

“It's a fantastic car yet has it's flaw. One very odd one that sticks out was the constant running of the radiator fans which came on in full force within mins of driving. It's all I could hear which took away from the experience.”

I have done over 2000 miles in my Plus Four and I think I heard the radiator fan come on once. Even then I had to really listen for it.

Sir P

Interesting Sir P re: the radiator. I did find it odd that the fans were on. I am now wondering if I had the AC on which maybe triggered this?

Whenever I have driven or ridden in a cx car I havent been aware of the fN being on all the time.

I have wondered how feasible this approach is on any modern-ish car. To what extent are things like abs, traction control etc built into the engine ecu. Or immobilisers and alarms not to mention instruments.

I understand the old style 12v wiring system for cars of the 60s / 90s, but I dont understand the canbus interlinked systems

It's tricky/impossible to do it with a stock manufacturer's ECU, but it can be done with an aftermarket system like Omex or MBE and a custom engine loom. Not a trivial undertaking, but not beyond the realms of possibility especially with a well-known engine.

Omex No longer exists , and their ECU’s weren’t sophisticated enough to support the BMW V8 as in Peter’s Plus 8

Blimey, didn't know that. Presumably an MBE ECU could be made to work? They can handle pretty sophisticated setups (CANbus, fly by wire throttles, VVT etc)

Looks like they're still going here..

OMEX