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I've buggered something up but don't know what ... #745685
24/06/22 10:22 AM
24/06/22 10:22 AM
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Posts: 155
Worcestershire
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Jonathan G Offline OP
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Yesterday I followed Mr Bleazey's instructions on how to remove a rear tyre. Worked like a dream had the tyre fitted and reassembled. Went for a little drive this morning and it felt great until I had to brake suddenly when not much happened albeit it did stop without incident. Thank God. Now I have two cables hanging and dripping brake fluid. Clearly I haven't reassembled something correctly or I didn't tie up the cables correctly. Anyway can somebody tell me what I need to do to get this sorted?

https://i.ibb.co/Y06RP3f/IMG-3857.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/2gpfLH4/IMG-3859.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/kM4MX2B/IMG-3860.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/5TPNFS9/IMG-3861.jpg


Actually the brake didn't go back in in exactly the same place hence the problem. Anyway once I get that refitted is it repairable?

As the two hoses have pulled out I guess it's at least one each of those? don't know what they are called but can't see anything on the alternative parts list either.

Last edited by Jonathan G; 24/06/22 11:17 AM.

2021 Morgan Plus Four
2012 Morgan Three Wheeler
2020 Land Rover Defender 110
Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #745694
24/06/22 11:48 AM
24/06/22 11:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 607
SW Iowa, U.S.A.
Bitsobrits Offline
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It appears you've broken the adaptor for the rear wheel cylinder to hydraulic hose (referencing your second photo). So that will need replaced. And as the remnants of the adaptor will still be in the rear wheel slave cylinder, you'll need to remove the rear wheel again and disassemble the rear brake assembly to get to the cylinder to insure all metal bits have been removed. The hose itself is likely fine. Actually probably best to replace the cylinder entirely as they tend to corrode and they are not too expensive.

Your last two photos look like the parking brake cable housing, minus the cable itself. Likely the cable has broken. Is the remnant of the cable hanging out of the rear drum?

Odd that these two thing happened at the same time. Perhaps you need to practice a kinder, more gentle style of wrenching?


Steve
Late 2012 M3W




Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #745697
24/06/22 12:17 PM
24/06/22 12:17 PM
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Worcestershire
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Thank you for your comments Bitsofbrits. Yes the cable is broken too so you're spot on there too. The car is 10 years old so maybe a new cylinder is the way to go albeit it doesn't seem too rusty - I'll double check that.

Now for the complexity of where the cables all go. The cylinder bit should be straightforward but the rest of it is beyond me but I'm sure someone can point me in the right direction and also where to get the cables from.

Last edited by Jonathan G; 24/06/22 12:28 PM.

2021 Morgan Plus Four
2012 Morgan Three Wheeler
2020 Land Rover Defender 110
Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #745705
24/06/22 01:39 PM
24/06/22 01:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,639
Port Orchard, WA.
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Bitsobrits is correct, and I might add that breaking both at the same time seems like they got caught in the wheel and were ripped off.

Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #745707
24/06/22 01:46 PM
24/06/22 01:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,011
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
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Johnathon, sorry to read this and good luck.
PM Red Three, he has an enormous amount of experience and expertise in stripping down and rebuilding the back end.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #745709
24/06/22 02:40 PM
24/06/22 02:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,559
Evergreen, Colorado, USA
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Nothing to do with your immediate issue but in your last photo it looks as if you may have some corrosion around the body rivet that will need attention before getting any worse.


Bruce
1964 4/4 Series V Comp (Megan)
1994 +8 (Maurice)
2013 M3W (Olga)
Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: britmog] #745713
24/06/22 02:53 PM
24/06/22 02:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 155
Worcestershire
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Jonathan G Offline OP
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Oh yes I have had corrosion around quite a few. Done some and am quite pleased with the result but still 4 to go.


2021 Morgan Plus Four
2012 Morgan Three Wheeler
2020 Land Rover Defender 110
Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #745724
24/06/22 03:44 PM
24/06/22 03:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,667
Furry Boots City
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Just saw this...looks like the reaction arm (fairly substantial aluminium plate with a slot in it) on the brake assembly hasn't been slotted over the boss on the inside face of the swingarm so when you've hit the brakes the drum has spun the internal mechanism pulling the hand brake cable apart and probably hitting the elbow fitting on the brake hose on the swing arm which has sheared the male-male fitting that connects it to the slave cylinder.
The slave cylinders are cheap and easily available, i wouldn't even bother trying to get the remnant of the fitting out of the old one, just fit a new one and make a point of greasing under the two cylinder boots when fitting it. A new cylinder is probably cheaper than a decent Easy-Out for getting the fitting out anyway.
It does look to me like you will need a complete new handbrake cable which means taking the wheel out, getting the brake mechanism out, cleaning everything, greasing the right bits of mechanism, removing the cable from the lever assembly in the transmission tunnel, attaching the new cable at the front, threading it through to the back then getting it through the brake back plate and attached to the brake shoe.. You'll want to take photos of the mechanism as you dismantle it and even then if you're not used to drum brakes then it can be a bit challenging getting everything assembled correctly. I've attached some photos of the mechanism but I don't have a clear step by step guide.
While doing all this, it would be worth fitting the adjustable pivot block for the the ends of the shoes away from the slave cylinder, it makes it easier to get the mechanism in and out of the drum and easier to set up just about right.

three photos of the shoe with the self adjusting mechanism on it.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Three photos of the handbrake cable attached to the lever on the other shoe.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Three pics of the shoe with the cable and lever on the mechanism showing the mechanism that attaches to it.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #745731
24/06/22 04:38 PM
24/06/22 04:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,639
Port Orchard, WA.
LightSpeed Offline
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That is another good Post by RedThree.

I would be thinking about throwing more money at it with a disc brake system if I had this happen to me.

Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #745738
24/06/22 05:29 PM
24/06/22 05:29 PM
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Worcestershire
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Jonathan G Offline OP
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Yes excellent post but I think I would mess it up. I have already contacted M3W Services about their disc brakes. Expensive but crikey this will be a fair chunk towards it.


2021 Morgan Plus Four
2012 Morgan Three Wheeler
2020 Land Rover Defender 110
Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #745760
24/06/22 08:33 PM
24/06/22 08:33 PM
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Burgundy, France
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Originally Posted by Jonathan G
Yes excellent post but I think I would mess it up. I have already contacted M3W Services about their disc brakes. Expensive but crikey this will be a fair chunk towards it.


Persevere with it, the car is already over braked on the rear, discs will only make it worse. As RedThree has shown, the original is fine if set up correctly, even if it is 1960’s ford Transit…


Mike H


2000 Plus 8
Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #745764
24/06/22 09:13 PM
24/06/22 09:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,406
Australia - NSW North Coast
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Originally Posted by Jonathan G
Yes excellent post but I think I would mess it up. I have already contacted M3W Services about their disc brakes. Expensive but crikey this will be a fair chunk towards it.

Excellent post indeed. Great Forum support
The DaveW of the M3W world.....


A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Mick Annick] #745991
26/06/22 07:45 PM
26/06/22 07:45 PM
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Lot et Garonne, France
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Persevere with it, the car is already over braked on the rear, discs will only make it worse. As RedThree has shown, the original is fine if set up correctly, even if it is 1960’s ford Transit…[/quote]

The rear Disc brake conversion doesn't make it worse! It improves the feel of the brakes and makes maintenance a doddle.

Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Stevo666] #746064
27/06/22 08:09 AM
27/06/22 08:09 AM
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Taunton, Somerset
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I cannot believe what I am reading in this post, is it a joke ?
It is blatantly obvious the wheel was put in incorrectly with the brake plate not secured in the slot.
How anyone could do that beggars belief !
There is no other way such damage could occur.
I suggest that you let professionals work on your Morgan to avoid causing yourself or others serious harm.
By the way the disc is a spot on conversion and benefits those of us who are serious users. Yesterday I did 15 Hill Ascents in my M3W at Prescott Hill Climb raising money for the BloodBikers. The Disc brake far outperformed the drum.
Ian.


Ian
Morgan Family 1929 ( KTW 1100cc )
Morgan S/S 1934
Morgan F4
M3W 2012
Morgan +4 T 1991
Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #746079
27/06/22 10:38 AM
27/06/22 10:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,667
Furry Boots City
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I take a different view.
Not everyone has the background that magically produces a good mechanic and I doubt if there are many good mechanics out there that haven't cocked up many times on the path to competence and crucially have learned from the experience. let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that...
Jonathan has made a mistake, admitted it and is learning the hard way just how expensive it can be to make an error and not catch it before it matters.
I've never had brake fade in my M3W, can lock the brakes at any speed at will on any dry surface should I choose to so there isn't a great deal wrong with the brakes overall. While I don't circuit race my car, I suspect that would be the only case where brake fade in a correctly maintained M3W could be an issue. Certainly in the track days I've done I've had no problems. Last time I was at Caramulo I did about ten consecutive high speed untimed "parade" runs up the hill in quick succession on the Friday before the competition again without issue. Even on the quickest of my "it's not big and it's not clever" early morning laps of the TT circuit last week I had no issue despite some of the high speed slow downs required which is more than I can say of some of the road bikes I've ridden round there! Hence my thoughts that the disk conversion is unnecessary, however nice it may look. I also happen to like drum handbrakes once they are set up correctly they have a tendency for excellent engineering reasons to be very effective and rather better than most disk systems are.

Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #746085
27/06/22 11:47 AM
27/06/22 11:47 AM
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Posts: 155
Worcestershire
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Jonathan G Offline OP
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Thank you Red Three. I would also like to add that it takes a big person to own up to such a fundamental error and ask for help on a public board. The last thing anyone deserves in such a position is ridicule and derision. I hope I never make such a post.


2021 Morgan Plus Four
2012 Morgan Three Wheeler
2020 Land Rover Defender 110
Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #746090
27/06/22 12:32 PM
27/06/22 12:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,187
North Somerset, UK
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North Somerset, UK
It’s about knowing and learning about our limitations and so, on a lighter note…
…a poem “Lord Finchley” by Hilaire Belloc

Lord Finchley tried to mend the electric light
Himself. It struck him dead: And serve him right!
It is the business of the wealthy man
To give employment to the artisan.


Doug

2011 +4 in Rich Maroon
1972 750 “ComDom” sprinter
1958 Triton 650
1992 Triumph Trophy 900
Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: RedThree] #746391
29/06/22 08:34 PM
29/06/22 08:34 PM
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Posts: 634
Oxford
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Oxford
Originally Posted by RedThree
I take a different view.
Not everyone has the background that magically produces a good mechanic and I doubt if there are many good mechanics out there that haven't cocked up many times on the path to competence and crucially have learned from the experience. let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that...
Jonathan has made a mistake, admitted it and is learning the hard way just how expensive it can be to make an error and not catch it before it matters.
I've never had brake fade in my M3W, can lock the brakes at any speed at will on any dry surface should I choose to so there isn't a great deal wrong with the brakes overall. While I don't circuit race my car, I suspect that would be the only case where brake fade in a correctly maintained M3W could be an issue. Certainly in the track days I've done I've had no problems. Last time I was at Caramulo I did about ten consecutive high speed untimed "parade" runs up the hill in quick succession on the Friday before the competition again without issue. Even on the quickest of my "it's not big and it's not clever" early morning laps of the TT circuit last week I had no issue despite some of the high speed slow downs required which is more than I can say of some of the road bikes I've ridden round there! Hence my thoughts that the disk conversion is unnecessary, however nice it may look. I also happen to like drum handbrakes once they are set up correctly they have a tendency for excellent engineering reasons to be very effective and rather better than most disk systems are.


Well said, Callum, and great to meet you in person finally on the Isle of Man.

Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #746400
29/06/22 09:40 PM
29/06/22 09:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,011
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
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Good luck Johnathon in sorting out your rear brakes, every mistake is a valuable lesson learnt for anybody and anyone that takes on something new to them will not get it right first time every time.
No one on here that is hands on will be faultless I can guarantee that as it's not the way engineering works in my lifetime of being involved in it.

Well done admitting yours and reaching out publicly, this forum is the place for sharing mechanical encouragement/knowledge and friendship thumbs.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Stevo666] #746401
29/06/22 09:42 PM
29/06/22 09:42 PM
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Burgundy, France
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Originally Posted by Stevo666
Persevere with it, the car is already over braked on the rear, discs will only make it worse. As RedThree has shown, the original is fine if set up correctly, even if it is 1960’s ford Transit…


The rear Disc brake conversion doesn't make it worse! It improves the feel of the brakes and makes maintenance a doddle.
[/quote]

My apologies, I’d missed the fact that the question was regarding a three wheeler, not a four…


Mike H


2000 Plus 8
Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #746403
29/06/22 09:53 PM
29/06/22 09:53 PM
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Posts: 155
Worcestershire
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Jonathan G Offline OP
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Worcestershire
Thanks to all but one for their support. The vehicle was collected by Morgan today for repair so will be sorted properly. This is a great forum to which I would only add if you have nothing positive to say then please don’t say anything! The last thing anyone should do is not ask for help or advice for fear of being belittled.


2021 Morgan Plus Four
2012 Morgan Three Wheeler
2020 Land Rover Defender 110
Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #746407
29/06/22 11:17 PM
29/06/22 11:17 PM
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Central CT/Newport, RI
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If it weren't for these types of candid questions and (vast majority) helpful answers, I wouldn't dare own my 3W in the States. You've probably helped me and others to avoid the same mistake. Thanks and best of success with your repair.


Formerly and Still '06032'
2017 M3W, 2008 Ural Patrol
Other stuff....
Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #746430
30/06/22 10:33 AM
30/06/22 10:33 AM
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Posts: 1,312
Lampeter, Wales
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Originally Posted by Jonathan G
……The last thing anyone should do is not ask for help or advice for fear of being belittled.



thumbs

Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #746433
30/06/22 10:47 AM
30/06/22 10:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 4,510
Northants, UK
TBM Offline
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As many will know, I am an avid DIYer, and tend to work by the principle of 'if you want a job doing properly, do it yourself'. I encourage anyone to have a go at self maintenance. There is usually nothing major that can go massively wrong or that can't be fixed - all part of the learning curve.

The only caveat I would put on is with brakes. Unless you are 100% confident in what you are doing, I would suggest leaving it to someone who knows what they are doing. If something goes wrong with brakes, the results can be absolutely devastating for the driver or third parties. There are also potential insurance issues as it could be claimed that your actions have made your vehicle unroadworthy which would invalidate the insurance.


1972 4/4 4 seater - 3G Morganeer
Too many ratty motorbikes
Re: I've buggered something up but don't know what ... [Re: Jonathan G] #746439
30/06/22 11:50 AM
30/06/22 11:50 AM
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Posts: 155
Worcestershire
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Jonathan G Offline OP
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Agree with you TBM. I was only changing a tyre and the brakes were impacted when the brakes were incorrectly reattached. Now brakes are impacted it’s back at Morgan.


2021 Morgan Plus Four
2012 Morgan Three Wheeler
2020 Land Rover Defender 110
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