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Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative #746800
04/07/22 10:10 AM
04/07/22 10:10 AM
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Leicestershire, UK
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My understanding at this time is that the Crank Position Sensor is unique to the X-Wedge. On top of this there currently doesn't seem to be any stock of them anywhere. Krazy Horse tell me that they are hoping to have a delivery this month (July 2022) but they are not holding their breath. Prices have shot up too with the total including VAT now at £250 and liable to rise again with the new delivery. It's Morgan part number E130008 if anyone's interested. I'm sure that we can come up with an alternative. These may help? All dimensions in mm.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

The lead is unusually long at 119cm. The 2 pin Deutsch connectors are readily available.

[Linked Image]


Andy
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #746805
04/07/22 10:55 AM
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Andy, have you thought about an after market trigger wheel fitted to the crankshaft pulley and a two pin hall effect sensor (they produce a cleaner waveform)

I fitted this to my +8

David Byrne

Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #746819
04/07/22 01:38 PM
04/07/22 01:38 PM
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There is no crankshaft pulley on an M3W...


Steve
Late 2012 M3W




Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #746828
04/07/22 02:37 PM
04/07/22 02:37 PM
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Cheshire, UK
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Is there a part number Andy? I can vaguely see something across the top of the bit that gets pushed into the engine in the second picture.

Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #746830
04/07/22 02:49 PM
04/07/22 02:49 PM
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Cheshire, UK
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This UK site reckons they are common with many other S&S cycle engines, so hopefully not so rare :

Universal use for most 84-07 S&S Big Twin engines; 06-21 Sportster; 08-12 XR1200

https://www.hogparts.co.uk/s-s-cycle-s-s-crankshaft-position-sensor-p47115/s47115?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=s-amp-s-cycle-s-amp-s-crankshaft-position-sensor-mcs902089&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&cid=GBP&glCurrency=GBP&glCountry=GB&gclid=Cj0KCQjwn4qWBhCvARIsAFNAMigkYAOCBTUMnw99OhznEaGU2xQWhmEPqud9d2deD0GUaXUZ8say-W0aAv6TEALw_wcB

Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #746836
04/07/22 03:10 PM
04/07/22 03:10 PM
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There seem to be different Harley ones, this is longer than most:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132762468205


2021 M3W
2013 M3W - Sold
1971 4/4 2 Seater
1934 Sports
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #746845
04/07/22 03:54 PM
04/07/22 03:54 PM
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Leicestershire, UK
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Nippy: This looks more like a fairly standard HD one to me. Also the cable orientation is wrong for our configuration.
[Linked Image]

Rog: That looks a distinct possibility. The protruding part of the sensor certainly looks long enough. Maybe too long? The cable would need extending but that's the easy part.
[Linked Image]

Update: I've just ordered a cheap 2nd hand one from the USA - I'll report when it arrives.

Last edited by Bunny; 04/07/22 04:04 PM.

Andy
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #746846
04/07/22 03:55 PM
04/07/22 03:55 PM
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Cheshire, UK
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Complete minefield.

S&S seem to make Harley specific ones :

https://www.vividracing.com/-p-154011431.html

And this S&S one for S&S IST ignitions ( which I think is the X wedge ) LOOKS identical to the one above , but without further info who knows.

https://www.jpcycles.com/product/3000035/s-s-cycle-crank-position-sensor-for-s-s-cycle-ignition

Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: nippymog] #746858
04/07/22 04:47 PM
04/07/22 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by nippymog
Complete minefield.

S&S seem to make Harley specific ones :

https://www.vividracing.com/-p-154011431.html

And this S&S one for S&S IST ignitions ( which I think is the X wedge ) LOOKS identical to the one above , but without further info who knows.

https://www.jpcycles.com/product/3000035/s-s-cycle-crank-position-sensor-for-s-s-cycle-ignition
Yep!


Andy
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #746918
04/07/22 10:45 PM
04/07/22 10:45 PM
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I'm after one too! I am informed that the sensor is specific to the X wedge engine and that the Harley ones won't fit.
S & S part number is 106-0734
Watching this post with excitement.....😜


1969 4/4
1995 plus 8
2002 Aero S1
2013 M3W
2014 Plus 8
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #746919
04/07/22 11:55 PM
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Apologies if this is a duplication of info.
Have been idly looking around interweb on this topic and came across Big Dog Motorcycles. Their Wolf version uses thev121 Vi x wedge motor. They advertise cam belts, also suited to M3W. Kevlar reinforced.
May be a helpful source for engine bits. Didn’t see if they had crank sensor though. They show on eBay one but explicitly not for xwedge

Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #746929
05/07/22 06:50 AM
05/07/22 06:50 AM
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Do we know what the technology in these is for our engine? Is it a Hall effect device picking up pulse(s) from the crank...or what? Might widen the search options for replacement/repair

Wikipedia says this:

There are several types of sensors that can be used: the inductive sensor, Hall Effect sensor, magnetoresistive sensor, and optical sensor. Inductive sensors have the simplest construction and are usually purely passive devices. Hall effect and magnetoresistive sensors have the advantage over inductive sensors in that they can detect static (non-changing) magnetic fields. Optical sensors do not have great resistance against fouling but are able to provide the most precise edge detection.

Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #747006
05/07/22 05:53 PM
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I was fortunate enough to buy a spare one before they all disappeared. There was a helpful thread here about what we should grab before they disappeared. Some pictures of it below.

Looking at it, it is not optical, as the end is solid with a small metal centre. It is magnetic, as the supplied washer was sticking to it, but beyond that I can't tell much. There are no visible markings or identifiers on it.
Good luck with the search!

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


2020 M3W
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #747180
07/07/22 01:11 PM
07/07/22 01:11 PM
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Big Dog motorcycles does stock a sensor that will fit our Three Wheelers.
The Big Dog part number is BDM170-00382
S&S number 55-021.

They say the difference between 106-0734 and 55-01 is that the latter has a slightly longer wire but the sensor is the same.

I have one on order and will update once I have received it.


Lance
1981 Plus 8
2016 Three Wheeler
2014 Corvette Stingray Convertible z51
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #747194
07/07/22 03:05 PM
07/07/22 03:05 PM
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Port Orchard, WA.
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Good info Lance, thank you.

Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Lance] #747208
07/07/22 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Lance
Big Dog motorcycles does stock a sensor that will fit our Three Wheelers.
The Big Dog part number is BDM170-00382
S&S number 55-021.

They say the difference between 106-0734 and 55-01 is that the latter has a slightly longer wire but the sensor is the same.

I have one on order and will update once I have received it.
Yes, very encouraging. Please do let us know what turns up. thumbs


Andy
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #747230
07/07/22 06:31 PM
07/07/22 06:31 PM
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Thank you Lance | Please keep us updated on your progress with S&S Part

I did have the opportunity to speak with a tech at S&S yesterday. His comment was to keep checking the S&S website, especially towards the end of the month (July). S&S has commissioned to produce additional inventory of Part # 106-0734. I hope it is true information.

Last edited by PocketRocket; 07/07/22 06:37 PM.

M3W
Plus 4
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: PocketRocket] #747235
07/07/22 07:40 PM
07/07/22 07:40 PM
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Lot et Garonne, France
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Hopefully I am wrong but if you Google that part number and go to Big Dog website then

1/ Sensor body looks far too short (AKA Harley type)

2/ Cable exit from sensor body shown would foul on crankcase - needs to be rotated 90 degrees....

Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #747623
11/07/22 09:45 PM
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I am reliably informed that MMC will have a delivery of these from S & S in the next week or two 🤞


1969 4/4
1995 plus 8
2002 Aero S1
2013 M3W
2014 Plus 8
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #747625
12/07/22 02:13 AM
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Stevo666, Just received my part from Big Dog, and you are correct, it is not the correct part for our purpose.


Lance
1981 Plus 8
2016 Three Wheeler
2014 Corvette Stingray Convertible z51
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Lance] #747667
12/07/22 12:46 PM
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Leicestershire, UK
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Originally Posted by Lance
Stevo666, Just received my part from Big Dog, and you are correct, it is not the correct part for our purpose.
Sounds like it's just the regular Harley type then?


Andy
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #747672
12/07/22 01:08 PM
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I just contacted a Big Dog motorcycle dealer who said he could make one for the X-wedge engine which is used on their Wolf model.
I also just bought a new cam belt on ebay for the Wolf model which advertised it would fit the morgan 3 wheeler.

Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #748107
15/07/22 01:28 PM
15/07/22 01:28 PM
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France
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Tried to remove this crank sensor and it just fell apart - plastic disintegrated through heat I guess.
Need a replacement, if anyone has a spare for sale - PM me.


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Omne trium perfectum
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #748108
15/07/22 01:37 PM
15/07/22 01:37 PM
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Port Orchard, WA.
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Wow, that indeed is a mess. Hope you can find a new sensor and get back on the road soon.

Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #748792
20/07/22 02:59 PM
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I have received a couple of used Harley V-Rod crank position sensors from the US. Harley part number: 32313

Bad news:
The probe is 40mm long (we need 35.5mm max)
The lead is only 30cm long

Good news:
If you mount using an appropriate spacer, and extend the lead it works!
[Linked Image]
I bought a 2003 one and a 2004 one. The early one has a cylindrical probe (like the original X-Wedge one) and the 2004 one is slightly tapered after the o-ring. New aftermarket V-Rod CPSs also appear to be tapered. Hogparts in the UK have them available at £50.

I bodged a 5mm spacer for testing purposes which results in a 35mm protrusion which is not far off the 35.5mm of the original. The spacer is white in this photo.

[Linked Image]

To make up the extension lead, I bought kit 'Deutsch DTM Series 2 Pin Way Connector Male & Female DTM04-2P-E003 DTM06-2S-E007' off eBay. Bear in mind that you need a special crimping tool in order to assemble these connectors. You could of course just cut the cable and splice in an 80cm length of appropriate 2 core cable.

I wouldn't recommend this as a permanent solution, but it might get someone out of a hole some time as we are waiting for S&S to make a new batch of CPSs.


Andy
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #748834
20/07/22 07:15 PM
20/07/22 07:15 PM
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Andy - does the O ring still seal okay?
A lot of the std crank sensors leak anyway - not helped by wet sumping issues.
Just wondered as that O ring will be getting closer to the surface and I'm not sure if the hole the sensor fits into is tapered?

Last edited by Stevo666; 20/07/22 07:15 PM.
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #748836
20/07/22 07:25 PM
20/07/22 07:25 PM
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Nice one Andrew,
Looking forward to hearing about your first production batch. cheers


M3W Brooklands (2015)
Moody 41 (2013)
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #749204
23/07/22 08:47 PM
23/07/22 08:47 PM
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Lot et Garonne, France
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Andy - any joy regarding if there is any noticeable oil leakage?
I heard that there may be a small batch made available...but at around 500 Euros each its a costly item to keep in your spares box 'just in case'.....

Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Stevo666] #749210
23/07/22 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevo666
Andy - any joy regarding if there is any noticeable oil leakage?
No leakage during my limited testing. The hole in the crankcase doesn't appear to be tapered so the o-ring should do its job.


Andy
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #749255
24/07/22 10:50 AM
24/07/22 10:50 AM
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Madrid, Spain
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Stevo666 is right: my dealer here in Madrid asks 531 € per sensor. pantsdown

But he hasn't any in stock. The price was given by MMC together with this message: "We are still wating for 10 to arrive which are already allocated to dealers, currently I cannot give a time on these however I would suggest getting your order in if required."

I asked for one, and will wait for it to arrive. When? No idea. However I think the price is abusive. The good side of this is that if we find an alternative part that works properly at better price, I can cancel the order. As they won't get the piece for many weeks from now, no one will be "hurt" while cancelling.

It's quite annoying that the sensor's manufacturers generally don't show the dimensions in the data sheet / web page. Really annoying. But I'm sure we'll find out one that will work, and not at 531 €!

This page / manufacturer is quite intersting: DORMAN https://www.dormanproducts.com/gsea...igin=keyword&q=crank+position+sensor

They're American (as S&S) and they offer a bunch of crank position sensors... the choices are so many, that I'm convinced there should be one amongst all these that matches our needs.

Last edited by Marmota; 24/07/22 11:04 AM.

Javier - Madrid, Spain - Commander of Speedy Marmots Bomb Squadron
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Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Marmota] #749325
24/07/22 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Marmota
This page / manufacturer is quite intersting: DORMAN https://www.dormanproducts.com/gsea...igin=keyword&q=crank+position+sensor They're American (as S&S) and they offer a bunch of crank position sensors... the choices are so many, that I'm convinced there should be one amongst all these that matches our needs.
Yes, you're right. It would be great to be able to rifle through their parts bins to find something that would fit. These two may be likely candidates?

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Andy
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #749327
24/07/22 09:16 PM
24/07/22 09:16 PM
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Could this firm be of any help ?

Maybe worth sending them a duff one as a pattern.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: +8Rich] #749335
24/07/22 11:33 PM
24/07/22 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by +8Rich
Could this firm be of any help ?

Maybe worth sending them a duff one as a pattern.



Looks terrific too! Plenty of choices! But same complaint: they don't put the dimensions of their sensors in the web page, so it's a total gamble to find the one that matches at 100% with ours banghead

Last edited by Marmota; 24/07/22 11:33 PM.

Javier - Madrid, Spain - Commander of Speedy Marmots Bomb Squadron
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Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #749604
27/07/22 08:35 PM
27/07/22 08:35 PM
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J'avais une fuite à u capteur. J ai mis un nouveau joint dans la rainure et un autre tout au fond et depuis plus de fuitef

Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #749607
27/07/22 08:47 PM
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I ran google translate as my French is not that good. Previous post says:
"I had a sensor leak. I put a new seal in the groove and another at the bottom and since then no more leaks."

Merci, Patrick


2020 M3W
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: PatrickV] #749651
28/07/22 10:05 AM
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Fixing the leak is not so much of an issue as replacing the CPS when they are not available from S&S. Great info Bunny, the V-Rod one with a suitable spacer looks like the best alternative for now if you need one. As it works it's on the next Alternative Parts List update until we find something better.

Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #749711
28/07/22 06:53 PM
28/07/22 06:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,095
Northern Capital of Cool
CooperMan Offline
Just barreling along
CooperMan  Offline
Just barreling along
Charter Member

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,095
Northern Capital of Cool
Originally Posted by Bunny
Originally Posted by Marmota
This page / manufacturer is quite intersting: DORMAN https://www.dormanproducts.com/gsea...igin=keyword&q=crank+position+sensor They're American (as S&S) and they offer a bunch of crank position sensors... the choices are so many, that I'm convinced there should be one amongst all these that matches our needs.
Yes, you're right. It would be great to be able to rifle through their parts bins to find something that would fit. These two may be likely candidates?

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Andy, looks like you need to find a friendly 3.0L series 1 Roadster owner and compare what he has


Jon M
Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: Bunny] #752141
14/08/22 04:26 PM
14/08/22 04:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 1
K
KLASG Offline
New to Talk Morgan
KLASG  Offline
New to Talk Morgan
K

Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 1

Re: Crank Position Sensor - Let's find an alternative [Re: KLASG] #752147
14/08/22 05:35 PM
14/08/22 05:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,459
Leicestershire, UK
Bunny Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
Bunny  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,459
Leicestershire, UK
[Linked Image]
Looks close, but my investigations so far have found that if it's not right, it's not right! Also, it doesn't have an o-ring around the shaft so would probably leak.

Nippymog & I are currently working on an adapter kit that will allow the Harley V-Rod sensor to be used. Watch this space!


Andy
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