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Re: Safety Recall - Brakes [Re: Clipper] #747150
07/07/22 07:15 AM
07/07/22 07:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,711
Northamptonshire UK
S
SBM Offline
Talk Morgan Sage
SBM  Offline
Talk Morgan Sage
S

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,711
Northamptonshire UK
It's going to take longer to get the fix sorted than it is to build another car, so reject them as unsuitable, and get another one as & when..?


Steve
Re: Safety Recall - Brakes [Re: Clipper] #747151
07/07/22 07:16 AM
07/07/22 07:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,821
Suffolk
John V6 Offline
Brooklands Register contact
John V6  Offline
Brooklands Register contact
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,821
Suffolk
Latest from Krazy Horse. Hopefully good news.

Dear CX owners



Firstly sorry for not sending this email at the start of the week as I usually do. I have been waiting for a call today with Morgan.



I have now had this call and can give you the following update. I have been told that Morgan intend to start supplying dealers with upgrade components next week, we are therefore starting to look at the logistics of collecting car’s and planning our workshops.



To clarify the situation, car’s that have not previously had a radiator issue will be rectified at KrazyHorse, cars that have had a radiator replaced previously will be rectified at Morgan. Morgan have arranged for a logistics company to collect all of the latter car’s directly and Krazyhorse will collect all of the others. It will be useful for us and Morgan if anyone has access issues for collection, to let us know so we can, between us and Morgan find the best way to collect the car’s.



The components that will be changed at KrazyHorse will be the master cylinder and a new swirl chamber for the cooling system. This will take around 4 hours per car. Car’s at Morgan will also have a new radiator fitted which as it requires removing the wings and cowl will take longer.



There will be an official email coming directly to all CX owners from Morgan, I was hoping it would be today but you should see it tomorrow.



I would like to thank you once again for your patience, we at KrazyHorse are doing everything we can to get this resolved as quickly as possible.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Safety Recall - Brakes [Re: John V6] #747152
07/07/22 07:24 AM
07/07/22 07:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 26,921
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Graham, G4FUJ  Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 26,921
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
So the dealer can't spell plural of cars correctly, either! laugh2

I have seen a number of cars having the cooling system changes while conducting tours. smile


Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'09 Alfa Romeo MiTo
Re: Safety Recall - Brakes [Re: John V6] #747155
07/07/22 07:58 AM
07/07/22 07:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,346
North of Stamford, UK
HeadlessBlue Offline
Has a lot to Say!
HeadlessBlue  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,346
North of Stamford, UK
Thanks for that update John - I guess your chum down there got his through KH who appear to be good at comms…

It is annoying that on one hand my usual dealership sent me the email last Thursday which spoke about separate contact from the car collection company to transport my Mog to MMC, and yesterday MMC sent me an email saying they are still validating the solution in preparation for stuff to go to the dealers for them to fix. I realise it’s a standard email from MMC but if they know I’ve got a CX they should also have the detail of which dealership mine went through and, I would assume in this modern computer world, some knowledge that they’ve told my dealer that my car has to go to MMC for fixing…. I realise MMC is a small company but the contradiction in info coming to me is simply adding to my annoyance at yet another problem (one of at least seven noteworthy things over the past 16 months which have needed resolution where poss, speakers in the front still can’t be heard-grrrr) with my costly vehicle (i appreciate all v minor in the grand scheme of things going wrong in this world)…
I retired last year, in part, to spend more time in Belle and, as others have pointed out, I am missing out on the best months of the year for driving her.
I should add I went into mog ownership with eyes wide open in respect of “they all do that sir” with my Trad but hoped with the higher cost and more modern approach to things for the CX that it wouldn’t be as frustrating….
I love Morgan cars but the lustre is not as shiny as it was once and my inexplicable need to defend them against criticism from outsiders is being sorely tested…
I won’t be going anywhere regardless (because of that deep seated passion) (plus I’m not allowed to drive at present) but am currently residing as “Deeply Frustrated, just North of Stamford”.
#rantmodeoffagain
HB


Plus Four Bentley Velvet Red - “Bellagio”
Prev 2019 110 P4
A3 S Line
Tesla M3 AWD “Harry”
Re: Safety Recall - Brakes [Re: John V6] #747159
07/07/22 08:41 AM
07/07/22 08:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,389
SimonH Offline
Has a lot to Say!
SimonH  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,389
Originally Posted by John V6
Hawki of this parish who lost his long in & can't get a new one yet from Simon hasnot seen any progress. The dealer clearly has no idea of when this agony ends.


A new one?


Simon @ Sifab.co.uk

Sifabtemporary@gmail.com
Re: Safety Recall - Brakes [Re: Clipper] #747174
07/07/22 01:05 PM
07/07/22 01:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,821
Suffolk
John V6 Offline
Brooklands Register contact
John V6  Offline
Brooklands Register contact
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,821
Suffolk
Not you Simon the other simon. Gary is trying to get a new log in but without success


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Safety Recall - Brakes [Re: Clipper] #747179
07/07/22 01:10 PM
07/07/22 01:10 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,493
Llanelli
sospan Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
sospan  Offline
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,493
Llanelli
Porosity from casting is an ever present problem to be checked for. Different processes are used for different metals/alloys and end use requirements.
Turbine blades for jet engines used to be cast by he investment ( lost wax) method and 100% inspected. They had a high failure rate.
Rimming steel, as made in bulk for rolling to thin sections ( car bodies, white goods) needed the initial outer layer solidifying cleanly and directionally so chilling was one method to speed up that. The body of the ingot ( the last to solidify) was encouraged to effervesce and allow gases to escape. Subsequent rolling welded up the remaining internal porosity. Any porosity at the surface would simply split open during rolling.
We made engineering steels and used surface crack detection and ultrasonic methods for sub surface defect detection. This allowed us to prevent any suspect batches getting through that would compromise future use/safety.
Cast metals can also carry over impurities from the melting/refining. Microscopic examination is used to identify this type of thing. A scale of cleanliness is used to evaluate it. Compare what you see down the microscope to standard photographs.
The bottom line is stipulating the manufacturing process and quality standard to apply. The more safety critical the tighter the requirements. Finishing techniques for a cast item must be in place to ensure it doesn’t carry over defects.
One thing to notice is when a supplier describes a product as “ machined from billet stock”. This means the item has been rolled ( usually) to change the internal structure away from cast to a wrought one. A stronger, less defect prone product and with some enhanced directional properties.
Lining a brake cylinder with a suitable material is a sensible option that reduces the need for enhanced casting requirements. Accept a level of “ defect” and counter it. Reduces initial casting cost/ intricacy with a more robust finish and hopefully cheaper.


Red Plus8
Re: Safety Recall - Brakes [Re: Clipper] #747183
07/07/22 01:29 PM
07/07/22 01:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 12
Somerset, UK
W
WAFU_Tom Offline
New to Talk Morgan
WAFU_Tom  Offline
New to Talk Morgan
W

Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 12
Somerset, UK
Just spoken to MMC. Two brake master cylinder products are in the final stages of trialling before being confirmed as the fix. Cars with previously reported radiator issues will go to the factory to have the cooling system addressed at the same time as the braking system. A logistics firm called Acumen will be in contact with affected owners. My name and car were on the list from Williams. If you're affected, it may be worth confirming with your dealer that they've given MMC your most up to date contact details (MMC had the incorrect address for me). They're expecting to get cars into the factory from 18 July.

Last edited by WAFU_Tom; 07/07/22 01:30 PM.

2021 Morgan Plus Four
Re: Safety Recall - Brakes [Re: WAFU_Tom] #747190
07/07/22 02:20 PM
07/07/22 02:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 95
UK
SCX358G Offline
Just Getting Started
SCX358G  Offline
Just Getting Started

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 95
UK
With starting too much thread drift, can anyone answer this question? I thought that the introduction of dual circuit brakes (in the 60s/70s?) was supposed to provide redundancy in case of brake failure in modern cars, so improving the safety of the design. (I certainly remember a master brake failure in my mother's Renault 12 in the early 70s removing just about all of the braking capability. But we still drove it the dealer - I guess using the handbrake - it was only a few miles). If the failure of the master cylinder is a single point of failure in both supposedly redundant brake circuits, isn't that a significant weakness in the design? Dual circuit brakes do provide some level of braking if a single wheel cylinder fails and fluid is lost from one of the brake circuits of course, but it is a bit disappointing if there is not full redundancy.

Does a modern master cylinder have dual pistons and keep the two brake circuits completely independent, thus providing redundancy? Or, can the seals in the master cylinder fail in such a way there is a total loss of braking capability ?

Just curious......


Dave
Blue 4/4 1969, Green +4 1953
Re: Safety Recall - Brakes [Re: Clipper] #747201
07/07/22 03:41 PM
07/07/22 03:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,822
L
Luddite Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
Luddite  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
L

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,822
I suspect your thinking re dual circuit brakes would in past times have most folk still running their cars, but in these litigous times there seems little chance that folk can evaluate risks to any degree as wee might have in past times..? Dual circuit brakes tend to start off with a master cylinder supply tank that is split into two seperate sections each section feeding it`s half of the braking system via seperate inputs to the master cylinder. The master cylinder is usually operated by one pushrod acting on both circuits. the pistons are linked one behind the other each with it`s own seal, thus two seals acting on the cylinder.
With the system split in this way enven if one system fails to the extent that all the fluid leaks out the other system should still operate with it`s seperate fluid supply.

If there is an internal failing in the master cylinder as in the brake pedal might feel softer than usual, if possible take the lid of the master cylinder and while looking in then have someone apply the brakes hard and check to see if there is any disturbance on the surface of the brake fluid.... Usually if a seal is failing tsome of the he pressure applied to the master cylinder can escape back past a failing seal to cause disturbance as described...

Hope this helps and does not muddy the water... I am NO expert. oldgit

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