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Re: The Bank of England [Re: IMHO] #750937
05/08/22 04:50 PM
05/08/22 04:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 3,424
Aberdeenshire
Image Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
Image  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 3,424
Aberdeenshire
"Gemini but on the cusp of Cancer" .... doesn't that mean you should date twins while you still have the chance?? 😁

K

Re: The Bank of England [Re: +8Rich] #750942
05/08/22 05:12 PM
05/08/22 05:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 6,382
Renfrewshire
BobtheTrain Offline
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BobtheTrain  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 6,382
Renfrewshire
Originally Posted by +8Rich
p.s. Bob, I have some Neurofen I can send up

I send up several things but Neurofen isn't one of them.


Best Regards
Lang may yer lum reek
Re: The Bank of England [Re: BobtheTrain] #750944
05/08/22 05:22 PM
05/08/22 05:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,561
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
Tricky Dicky
+8Rich  Offline
Tricky Dicky
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,561
Devonshire
Originally Posted by BobtheTrain
Originally Posted by +8Rich
p.s. Bob, I have some Neurofen I can send up

I send up several things but Neurofen isn't one of them.

Try these...


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: The Bank of England [Re: IMHO] #750945
05/08/22 05:51 PM
05/08/22 05:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 6,382
Renfrewshire
BobtheTrain Offline
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BobtheTrain  Offline
Talk Morgan Sage

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 6,382
Renfrewshire
rofl


Best Regards
Lang may yer lum reek
Re: The Bank of England [Re: JohnHarris] #750951
05/08/22 07:33 PM
05/08/22 07:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 492
North Staffordshire
Malcolm T Offline
Learner Plates Off!
Malcolm T  Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 492
North Staffordshire
Originally Posted by JohnHarris


At one point in the UK the highest PAYE rate was 90% and if you had investment income that had a further surcharge of 15% tax, so higher earners with investment income could finish up paying £1:05p in tax on the £1 they earned, no wonder we had the brain drain in the 70's..............






John your point was very valid but I think that the numbers were off. Wasn't it 83% plus 15% investment income surcharge making a total of 98%. Beatles sang 'One for you nineteen for me' in Taxman


Malcolm T
1966 +4
1957 TR3
1963 TR4
1983 LR 110
1985 Robin Hood 2.0l
Re: The Bank of England [Re: +8Rich] #750964
05/08/22 09:02 PM
05/08/22 09:02 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 496
Hampshire, UK
I
IMHO Offline OP
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IMHO  Offline OP
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I

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 496
Hampshire, UK

“Yes that is the difference our generation just got their heads down and got on with the prevailing conditions - nowadays everyone has to moan and voice their own home brewed half cocked theories which of course we all ignore as that is exactly what they are and financially worthless.”


Possibly the “broadest brush” I’ve ever come across.


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Moody 41 (2013)
Re: The Bank of England [Re: Image] #750972
05/08/22 10:01 PM
05/08/22 10:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,217
Suffolk, England
John V6 Offline
Brooklands Register contact
John V6  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,217
Suffolk, England
Originally Posted by Image
"Gemini but on the cusp of Cancer" .... doesn't that mean you should date twins while you still have the chance?? 😁

K

I'll ask the wife


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: The Bank of England [Re: IMHO] #750973
05/08/22 10:03 PM
05/08/22 10:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,618
Evergreen, Colorado, USA
britmog Offline
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britmog  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2017
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Evergreen, Colorado, USA
Originally Posted by IMHO

Possibly the “broadest brush” I’ve ever come across.


Only the painter would know that.


Bruce
1964 4/4 Series V Comp (Megan)
1994 +8 (Maurice)
2013 M3W (Olga)
Re: The Bank of England [Re: Malcolm T] #750991
06/08/22 07:02 AM
06/08/22 07:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,260
Lytham St Annes, Lancashire
J
JohnHarris Offline
Has a lot to Say!
JohnHarris  Offline
Has a lot to Say!
J

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,260
Lytham St Annes, Lancashire
Originally Posted by Malcolm T
Originally Posted by JohnHarris


At one point in the UK the highest PAYE rate was 90% and if you had investment income that had a further surcharge of 15% tax, so higher earners with investment income could finish up paying £1:05p in tax on the £1 they earned, no wonder we had the brain drain in the 70's..............






John your point was very valid but I think that the numbers were off. Wasn't it 83% plus 15% investment income surcharge making a total of 98%. Beatles sang 'One for you nineteen for me' in Taxman


Hi Malcolm,

When I first started to study taxation back in the late 60's early 70's, the rates stuck in my mind as you paid more in tax than you actually earned at a certain point, During the 1950s and 1960s, income tax in the UK was at its highest levels reaching 90%, From memory your 83% highest rate was in the 1970's before dropping to 60% and 40% during the Thatcher years. The 15% Investment Income Surcharge ran well into the 1980's.

I should have made fuller reference to the brain drain in the 60's and 70's. not just the 70's which may have been misleading in the context of the tax rates I highlighted. Even at 98% it was staggering and these were the days of exchange control and you couldn't get your money out of the UK.

These were also the days of Purchase Tax until 1973 on luxury goods which had variable rates.

Purchase Tax was a tax levied between 1940 and 1973 on the wholesale value of luxury goods sold in the United Kingdom. Introduced on 21 October 1940, with the stated aim of reducing the wastage of raw materials during World War II, it was initially set at a rate of 33.33%.

The tax was subsequently set at differing rates dependent upon individual items' degree of "luxury" as determined by the government of the day.

The 33.33% rate was increased to 66% for cars costing over £1000 in 1947 and this rate was extended to all cars from 1951. In 1953 it was reduced to 50%.

In connection with the accession of the UK to the European Economic Community] Purchase Tax was abolished on 2 April 1973 and replaced by Value Added Tax (VAT), initially set at a rate of 10%, which was shortly afterwards reduced to 8%.

The colour on your LP or EP record label highlighted the Purchase Tax % paid on the record , the PT rate used to go up and down like a fiddlers elbow hence the need to have a different colour on record labels.
Those certainly were the days, people don't know they are born today regarding individual tax burden in decades past.


And nothing really changes when it comes to the price fixing and not passing on taxation/ interest rate cuts an extract from Hansards
Purchase Tax
HC Deb 23 May 1972 vol 837 cc1200-11200

§3. Mr. Hunt asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will set up machinery to examine the extent to which purchase tax reductions are passed on to the consumer.

§Mr. Nott No, Sir. Purchase tax will be abolished next year, and in any case experience has shown that purchase tax reductions are generally passed on to the consumer.

§Mr. Hunt Does not my hon. Friend realise that a racket has been going on, particularly in toiletry and cosmetics? Is he aware that the jar of Max Factor hair dressing that I am holding cost 39p before the Budget and, in spite of the 20 per cent. reduction in purchase tax, still costs 39p? Should not the public have some redress against blatant profiteering of this kind, which undermines and sabotages the Chancellor's fight against inflation?

§Mr. Nott If certain trades or industries have not passed on the whole reductions, it is very disappointing, but this is a matter for the commercial judgment of the traders concerned.

§Mr. Molloy Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that his extraordinarily shaky and vacillating reply should convince him of the need to set up machinery to examine whether purchase tax and other reductions are passed on to the consumer, and that he might include the building societies, which increase mortgage interest rates when Bank Rate is raised but do not reduce them when it is subsequently lowered?



Last edited by JohnHarris; 06/08/22 08:15 AM.

John
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Re: The Bank of England [Re: JohnHarris] #751000
06/08/22 08:24 AM
06/08/22 08:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,012
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Scruffy Oik
Hamwich  Offline
Scruffy Oik
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,012
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by JohnHarris

Those certainly were the days, people don't know they are born today regarding individual tax burden in decades past.


There's a slight difficulty when talking about tax burden if you focus on selected tax points and thresholds without considering the overall tax rate as a % of GDP.

For example, for 58% of the population, income tax is historically low as they don't earn enough to pay any. On the other hand, the top 1% of earners are responsible for paying a third of our tax revenues.

Expressed as an average % of GDP, we have the highest tax burden (35%) since 1969/1970, when it was 35.1% for a couple of years, but for all other decades since 1950 it's been lower:

https://www.statista.com/chart/24330/uk-tax-burden-as-share-gdp-timeline/

Of course, we would also need to consider GDP/Head - if we aren't as efficient or as economically active as we used to be, then we'd need to have a higher tax % to compensate. But this doesn't appear to be the case, our GDP/head has been steadily increasing since 1950, albeit with a bit of instability since 2010. Not that we haven't got plenty of room for improvement, although our economy is around the 6th largest in the world (7th or 8th by some analysts), our GDP/Head is only around 25th.

I believe this is a good indicator of why we seem to be suffering more than our competitors, we are simply not efficient enough at converting effort into value. And tempting though it is to interpret this to mean that the average British worker is lazy, the evidence points far more to the conclusion that British management is incompetent and investment strategies are failing.

It's not like this knowledge is anything new, however - remember Selwyn Lloyd's 1961 report on economic growth and national efficiency?

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7659293

There's a very interesting reappraisal by Prof. Hugh Pemberton here:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/industrial-strategy-lessons-from-the-past/


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
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