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M3W LED "Black Out" Head Lamp Conversion questions #752316
16/08/22 04:29 AM
16/08/22 04:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 321
Grapevine, Texas
CraigL Offline OP
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CraigL  Offline OP
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Grapevine, Texas
I'm swapping out my halogen headlamps for some LED Blackout headlamps I ordered from Krazy Horse. I like the look of the blackout headlights, and they would be safer since they have both running light and amber turn signal capability, but this is where my questions come in. They sent some rough instructions, but I still had a few questions and I've not heard back from them yet.

Do EU or early edition cars come with a two stage headlight switch to allow "driving light" ability without turning on the head lights? The center bar of these blackout lights is constructed for driving light configuration and I'd like to use it.

My US spec 2021 car only allows the headlights to be on, or off, no driving light option. It looks like Morgan has changed the headlight option but left the original wiring harness, as I have two wires that do nothing in my head light canister. I have a red wire that was simply taped off, and a black wire that is first grounded to the head light cannister, and then runs to a connector that looks like it is for a small bulb; this was simply tucked out of the way on my car. I tried connecting the red wire to the driving light wire on the LED lamp. This allows the driving light to remain on if I leave the head lights switch on and I turn off the car, and the headlamp turns off (I presume to save your battery) the other LED side markers etc. stay on like driving lights. Someone mentioned I should have a two way switch on the head lights, but my 2021 car clearly does not.

The black wire I've not tested since that doesn't seem like it does anything due to the ground connection on the canister, but the possible bulb connection has me wondering. I did see a Youtube video where Kirk Olmstead replaced his head lights with JW Speaker LEDs, and this black wire looked like it had a bulb and was inserted as a possible running light in his original light.

Does someone have a Krazy Horse car with the blackout headlights where these function as running lights and stay on without the headlights being on?

I know I could probably tap into the turn signals to use the amber signal option, but I’m not sure I’m ready to start splicing into wires outside of the head light cannister yet.

Thanks,
Craig

Last edited by CraigL; 16/08/22 04:39 AM.

Craig - Texas, USA
2021 M3W

Re: M3W LED "Black Out" Head Lamp Conversion questions [Re: CraigL] #752326
16/08/22 07:18 AM
16/08/22 07:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 5,270
East Harling, Norfolk UK
RichardV6 Offline
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RichardV6  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 5,270
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Basically yes Craig, UK and I'm sure European cars have the side/position light option by way of a mid position on light switch. If you have the DRL option on your new headlamps then you could feed them from the sidelight, presently redundant, wires in the headlamp shell. These you should find are colour code red/orange on r/h side and red/black on left. I imagine they are currently live when headlamps are on.

To achieve the normal daytime option with DRL's you will of course need to replace the two position headlamp switch for the UK three position one. As you suggest the wiring loom is universal so the extra connection for sidelights will be there as it already feeds rear lights. However the wiring schematic only shows loom cabling to the two dash connectors and not on to the switches and dash instruments. I can tell you the switched sidelight feed out to actual lights is on a red/orange cable on the larger 20 way dash connector. Also that the fused feed to sidelight switch comes in on the purple/green cable on the 12 way dash connector. Another point is that presently the rear lights (and likely front sidelight wiring) will be fed from your headlamp switch, so would need to be separated to take feed from sidelight connection on new switch.

Once this is done your new switch will first turn on front DRL and rear lights and in second position headlamps as well. Depending on brightness of DRL and local laws it may be that DRL needs to be extinguished or dimmed when headlamps are selected which would require a relay triggered by headlamp feed and extra wiring!

As an interim you should be able to simply hook up new headlamps and DRL to side and headlamp connections. You could also bypass/extend wiring from each existing indicator to matching connections on new headlamps. I imagine they work with a switchback function such that indicator selection overrides the white DRL and turns it to flashing amber. You would be replacing OE LED indicators with similar in headlamps so flasher unit should work OK.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1945 Moto Guzzi Airone
Re: M3W LED "Black Out" Head Lamp Conversion questions [Re: CraigL] #752333
16/08/22 07:52 AM
16/08/22 07:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,483
Leicestershire, UK
Bunny Offline
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,483
Leicestershire, UK
Craig,

You might be interested to read this THREAD which explains how to have the sidelights automatically switched on soon after turning on the ignition. Some of us with non DRL cars use this as a way of enabling daylight running lights and it works well.


Andy
Re: M3W LED "Black Out" Head Lamp Conversion questions [Re: CraigL] #752374
16/08/22 01:23 PM
16/08/22 01:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 321
Grapevine, Texas
CraigL Offline OP
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CraigL  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 321
Grapevine, Texas
Richard, Andy, thank you both for your input. I really do love this forum for the amount of knowledge that is so freely shared.

Richard, I'll try sourcing the UK switch. I've noted that the parts manual doesn't actually show a difference in the UK/EU switch and the US switch, so I'll try calling around. Possibly I can add it to a parts order when I source more parts directly from the UK. I'll figure it out as it should not be a limited availability part.

Fortunately on the DRL laws, here is the US, and specifically in Texas, I don't have to worry about the brightness laws. As long as the front lights are white or amber, and have a DOT (Dept. of Trransportation) stamp, it seems like any brightness works. This is a bit of a hazard when nighttime lights can be so bright that even regular position LED and halogen low beams are blindenly bright when you are in a low car. Another reason I don't like to drive the M3W at night.

Andy, thanks for the thread. The buzzer is a nice touch. Although I agree I need the buzzer when I leave the keys in the ignition as I have now done that twice at different shows. I've not found an upgrade to the 3 Wheeler to make the driver any smarter!

Thanks guys. The guidance is greatly appreciated.

Craig


Last edited by CraigL; 16/08/22 01:25 PM.

Craig - Texas, USA
2021 M3W

Re: M3W LED "Black Out" Head Lamp Conversion questions [Re: CraigL] #752376
16/08/22 01:59 PM
16/08/22 01:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 5,270
East Harling, Norfolk UK
RichardV6 Offline
Charter Member
RichardV6  Offline
Charter Member

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 5,270
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Originally Posted by CraigL
Richard, Andy, thank you both for your input. I really do love this forum for the amount of knowledge that is so freely shared.

Richard, I'll try sourcing the UK switch, but I noted that the parts manual doesn't actually show a difference in the UK/EU switch and the US switch, so this may take some calling around. Possibly I can add it to a parts order when I source more parts directly from the UK. I'll figure it out as it should not be a limited availability part.

Fortunately on the DRL laws, here is the US, and specifically in Texas, I don't have to worry about the brightness laws. As long as the front lights are white or amber, and have a DOT (Dept. of Trransportation) stamp, it seems like any brightness works. It seems like a hazard when nighttime lights can be so bright that even regular position LED and halogen low beams are blindenly bright when you are in a low car. Another reason I don't like to drive the M3W at night.

Andy, thanks for the thread. The buzzer is a nice touch. Although I agree I need the buzzer when I leave the keys in the ignition as I have now done that twice at different shows. I've found no upgrade to the 3 Wheeler to make the driver any smarter.

Thanks guys. The guidance is greatly appreciated.

Craig


Thanks for feedback Craig. On my Roadster I supplemented the LED sidelight function with switchback LED's in what is normally exclusive front indicator position. This required change of bulb holder and small amount of additional wiring.

[Linked Image]

Although we have DRL ruling mentioned above, for simplicity I arranged for the new "position lights" to remain on with headlamps. Despite the brightness their low position didn't seem to cause any issues and it sailed through a recent annual (MOT) test. Note indicator mode is brighter still wink Brightness is exagerrated by dusk ambient light though.

When I had my M3W I always drove in the daytime with sidelights on. It occurs to me that position/DRL' s on yours could be wired as OE on my Roadster such that they are always on with ignition. No worries from accidentally leaving them on then and it may save you having to buy three position switch.




Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1945 Moto Guzzi Airone
Re: M3W LED "Black Out" Head Lamp Conversion questions [Re: RichardV6] #752405
16/08/22 06:35 PM
16/08/22 06:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 321
Grapevine, Texas
CraigL Offline OP
Learner Plates Off!
CraigL  Offline OP
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 321
Grapevine, Texas
Originally Posted by RichardV6

Thanks for feedback Craig. On my Roadster I supplemented the LED sidelight function with switchback LED's in what is normally exclusive front indicator position. This required change of bulb holder and small

When I had my M3W I always drove in the daytime with sidelights on. It occurs to me that position/DRL' s on yours could be wired as OE on my Roadster such that they are always on with ignition. No worries from accidentally leaving them on then and it may save you having to buy three position switch.


Richard, nice touch with the additional sidelight feature on your car. Very functional on the Roadster.

For my DRLs, no such luck on my US model. WIth the lights to the standard "Off" position, none of the lights are on. That may not be the case for the earlier US models, as the three stage switch tip was given me by "kankeL", in California. However, by 2021 Morgan had decided to simplify things by making all of the switches simple two stage, On/Off switches. That applies to the headlights/sideligths, rear red fog light (which some replace with a backup light), the hazard lights and the horn. I guess that keeps parts more straightforward.

I think I simply need to get the three stage switch and start the wiring. Maybe a simple install now without the complexity, and another winter project to add to the list. smile

Thanks,
Craig

Last edited by CraigL; 16/08/22 06:36 PM.

Craig - Texas, USA
2021 M3W

Re: M3W LED "Black Out" Head Lamp Conversion questions [Re: CraigL] #752406
16/08/22 06:47 PM
16/08/22 06:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,365
West Sussex, UK
Chris99 Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
Chris99  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,365
West Sussex, UK
The change to two position headlight/sidelight switch was part of the Euro 4 regulations.

The unused red and white wires in your headlamp buckets would have been for the sidelight bulb. If you have a 3 way switch then fully up would be off, mid position would be sidelights (your currently unused red wire) and down would be dipped headlamp. The red wire may well still be switched and is easy to test with a voltmeter, the black wire is an earth.


Red Leader drive
Re: M3W LED "Black Out" Head Lamp Conversion questions [Re: CraigL] #752430
16/08/22 11:27 PM
16/08/22 11:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 231
Las Vegas
JohnMat Offline
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JohnMat  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 231
Las Vegas
I'd suggest simply wiring your driving lights to come on with the ignition. Don't bother with a 3-way switch conversion.

I added some yellow fog lights that always come on with the ignition to mine, so I don't forget to turn them on. Anything to make the little beast more visible!

[Linked Image]


2020 M3W
Re: M3W LED "Black Out" Head Lamp Conversion questions [Re: CraigL] #752431
17/08/22 03:27 AM
17/08/22 03:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 321
Grapevine, Texas
CraigL Offline OP
Learner Plates Off!
CraigL  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 321
Grapevine, Texas
Chris99, the red wires are indeed live. I connected them up and they will power the Blackout bar portion of the light, but I need to turn the lights on to activate. Thanks for the note on the blackwire. That makes sense for the wire attached to the bucket, I've no idea why it then terminates with an extra connector that looks like a small bulb socket.

JohnMat, not a bad ideal either. Which circuit did you tap into for the foglamps? I do plan some foglamps as well, so something to consider.

Thanks,
Craig


Last edited by CraigL; 17/08/22 03:29 AM.

Craig - Texas, USA
2021 M3W

Re: M3W LED "Black Out" Head Lamp Conversion questions [Re: CraigL] #752432
17/08/22 03:54 AM
17/08/22 03:54 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 231
Las Vegas
JohnMat Offline
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 231
Las Vegas
Originally Posted by CraigL
JohnMat, not a bad ideal either. Which circuit did you tap into for the foglamps?


Here is the thread discussing this. I am in debt to those who went before me and worked this out.


2020 M3W
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