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Something special with PLL209? #756248
22/09/22 01:39 PM
22/09/22 01:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 828
Germany, Rhein-Main Area
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xc68anc Offline OP
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xc68anc  Offline OP
Talk Morgan Regular
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 828
Germany, Rhein-Main Area
I just read the September issue of the German „OLDTIMER MARKT“ magazine.

On page 173 there is a MORGAN sold at „SWVA - south western vehicle auctions“ in july for about the triple price of the estimate.
It was sold for 18.500EURs. And it looks like a barnfind.

Is there something special about it?

Just found:

https://www.swva.co.uk/classic-car/morgan-plus-4-1954/

Greets René

Last edited by xc68anc; 22/09/22 01:41 PM.

2018 plus4 (sports green)
with a homemade really shiny red tinted dash…
Re: Something special with PLL209? [Re: xc68anc] #756250
22/09/22 01:48 PM
22/09/22 01:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 77
Westerly, RI USA
1854sailor Offline
Just Getting Started
1854sailor  Offline
Just Getting Started

Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 77
Westerly, RI USA
Wow! Someone must have really wanted that car. It will be interesting to know why...

Re: Something special with PLL209? [Re: xc68anc] #756262
22/09/22 03:13 PM
22/09/22 03:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,830
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Luddite Offline
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Luddite  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,830
I suspect that the "barn find" will be a rarity in terms of it`s originality...?

I also suspect by now that the baby boomer generation may well have personalised, modified, titivated and polished to their idea of perfection just about every old Morgan out there up to the 90`s, thus something from 1954 that looks to be as close to original spec may well be highly valued by some Steampunk or other..? I guess the hope is that it will not be "over restored" at some time... Care to suggest what might be a datum to measure over restored...? Thin ice or what..? laugh2

I saw this wonderful 1932 Ford at a recent car club meeting it was about as polished to perfection as any machine could be and no doubt greatly cherished as are many restored old machines, it seemed to be personalised and modernised even to the extent it appeared to have cup holders and what looks like a possible mobile phone mounting, perhaps to be used for GPS mapping. I doubt when it left the the Ford Factory back in the 30`s that it looked anything like it does today..?

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Re: Something special with PLL209? [Re: xc68anc] #756269
22/09/22 04:33 PM
22/09/22 04:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,830
Suffolk
John V6 Offline
Brooklands Register contact
John V6  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,830
Suffolk
That Ford has real style.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Something special with PLL209? [Re: xc68anc] #756270
22/09/22 04:36 PM
22/09/22 04:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,203
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Arwyn Williams Offline
Has a lot to Say!
Arwyn Williams  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,203
Barn find premium plus eligibility for historic motorsport probably drove the price up.

Arwyn

Re: Something special with PLL209? [Re: xc68anc] #756275
22/09/22 05:13 PM
22/09/22 05:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,830
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Luddite Offline
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Luddite  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,830
Arwyn, my +8 was a 90`s barn find with only 8k miles on the clock... restored circa Y2k, does that make it more valuable now 20 years later with just 27k more miles on the clock...? laugh2

Re: Something special with PLL209? [Re: xc68anc] #756304
22/09/22 09:15 PM
22/09/22 09:15 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,218
auckland new zealand
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waikiore Offline
Has a lot to Say!
waikiore  Offline
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,218
auckland new zealand
Oh undoubtedly good sir.


99 plus 8 indigo
Re: Something special with PLL209? [Re: xc68anc] #756373
23/09/22 03:23 PM
23/09/22 03:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,830
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Luddite Offline
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Posts: 2,830
My contribution to this thread is but my attempt at a possible answer relative to 1854sailor`s interest in the market valuation of such a tired, dusty old Morgan.

Arwyn spotted the important aspect of possible value that I forgot to mention in terms of eligibility for older vehicles to enter into sporting events and rallies, the latter being an ever popular pastime for the retired as organised by numerous businesses that have grown over the years, such as HERO Events - Homepage of course they have a variation in events, some a tad less demanding than others..

I started messing with m/cycles in the mid sixties and like most I ever wanted to make them go faster and look more racy, that objective carried on into cars in the seventies and 80`s, around the mid 90`s and with a more "mature" sense of values, having created a few imbalanced machines, some more imbalanced than others in that they were faster but often the lack of budget equated to handling being the last item on the agenda into which to invest a few bob.... One thing for sure it sharpened up the drivers skills to some extent.. scared

By the mid 90`s and owning a 911, I had up to that time sampled perhaps a decade of the best of the best in terms of reasonably modern sports cars, and given the opportunity to spend a day driving the then new 993 on my local favourite roads, I could not beleive my luck, I thought it was fantastic in terms of increased power and handling to match, with greatly increased comfort levels.... BUT... My motoring enjoyment was more related to involvement with the machine not only in terms of it`s repair and maintenance but in keeping it out of the hedgerows...This new hi-tec machine was some distance off from that...Hmm..!

My interest in Vintage machinery had been awakened when I came across wonderful old sports cars mixed in with Porsches and the like at local car events..thus between that growing interest and coming across a vintage Bentley when riding down a loch-side road, I ended up thinking I want some of that and that a Morgan might more fit my budget... I ended up on the MSCC DG, then eMog and learned so much there. Amongst the forum contributors were those mad to modify every aspect of that which was a pretty simple machine to make it fit with the more usual old fashioned Morganeers expectations of more power first and foremost, which then would cause them to seek better brakes as the next obvious step, etc. etc. etc..

As time passed and downsizing and delayering spat 50 year olds out of the workplace with lump sums and various pension enhancements the Morgan market seemed to change somewhat , given the influx of baby boomers with cash to burn, and looking for a project... Some of these guys wanted a tad more comfort, bling and performance to closer match the expectations their BM Merc and Jag saloons to be incorporated in a Morgan while it retained the overall appearance of a Trad Morgan..All of which was a different set of priorities from those which held at the time.... Now circa 20 years on my older bones might appreciate more creature comforts but not so much in an open topped car.. and not in a Morgan at Porsche money. Thus my old +8 still has a place in my garage, both looking and feeling more Vintage with every passing year, a bit like myself... smile

Modern expectations which seemed to arrive perhaps increasingly so circa Y2K. Of course many Morganeers such as I were ageing and not yet ready to give up on their wonderful old cars. . The ageing process perhaps did not go as well for some as it may have done for others, thus lighter steering seemed to become high on the agenda with a bearing system created to fit at the base of the sliding pillar. With some smart engineers in the group, other than the more usual knock-on effect of increasing power then brakes etc.etc.etc it seems that ever more modification was required, MMC.introducing wider doors to make access and egress a tad simpler. It seemed MMC may have been poaching ideas from some of the clever engineers on the forums... (-: It was perhaps not too long before further adaptations to modernise the trad to suit the increase in expectations of handling and comfort seemed to be in demand, achieved by altering aspects of the vintage cart spring, lever arm shockers and sliding pillar suspension and which attracted forum engineers to see possibilities for even more modernisation to match the ever increasing demands..and in the process moving ever further away from the original Trad concept.... Yeah, for sure evolution will ever play it`s part and those who grumble about it are likely to be identified as grumpy old men.... Like me.. oldgit

At the recent car show I attended, boy that 32 Ford was a fine example of time money effort and personalisation, but financial aspects aside, the barn find Morgan attracted whatever drives my senses of imagination and wonderment a tad more, not just in the fact that it has managed to survive as is, but what might be needed to get it running again and ideally left with as much of it`s originality still in tact as possible in the process... Chances are that it too might just end up as another bling thing, much as my Morgan might have been considered to be before it gained a degree of ..err..patina in my usage of it... smile

Bottom line... For sure I want to be able to enjoy sports car driving and openly admit to a reduction of that noted over the years in terms of my Morgan, failing to provide the level of enjoyment it once did as the result of MY ageing process and that of my navigator... Thus I returned to Porsche ownership, the 991 is far more a GT than a sports car, the Cayman seems to be closer to the 911 as I experienced them BUT then the effects of unavoidable ageing are best not ignored......????

Ok so just an insight to my observations on evolutionary forces affecting Morgans and old cars in general on which the baby boomers had a considerable effect... As for the generations following on behind... It is for them to shape their future, though perhaps not for very much longer with the internal combustion engine..?

Enjoy that which you can while you can seems a reasonable way forward..?

More than happy to read your thinking if I might be thought to be typing trash... blush

Re: Something special with PLL209? [Re: xc68anc] #756451
24/09/22 08:37 PM
24/09/22 08:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 41
Hampshire, UK
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GrumpyPa Offline
Just Getting Started
GrumpyPa  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 41
Hampshire, UK
Luddite,
An interesting reflection, that left me pondering for a while. There's much on this forum, and elsewhere regarding the modifications that are possible with a Morgan, albeit for those later than my 1957 vintage Plus4. Mine has obviously had some sympathetic, but not precise restoration, so very usable.
Although I never had the pleasure of owning a Porsche, 4 children and a large mortgage precluding, in my youth I followed the add more power, and improve the brakes scenario. Until the first born arrived we had a Ford 100E Anglia with a 1500 Cortina GT engine and Classic front suspension with 9 inch discs, all of which I did myself.
Now in my advancing years I am more than happy with a near standard old Morgan, that I can tinker with to my hearts content without having to think about ECUs etc.
I do, however, restrict my usage to dry days and local events. I enjoy driving it, with all the features of these old cars, including double declutching the Moss gearbox.
When I come to sell it, whether it will fetch what I paid for it or not isn't an issue, I bought it as a hobby car. We have 'tin tops' for normal use.
Back to PLL209, a few years ago I might have been tempted myself, albeit I didn't have the resources necessary. I wouldn't have paid that much for it though.


1957 Plus 4 4 seater

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