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Re: Renewable Reality [Re: nick w] #756348
23/09/22 12:40 PM
23/09/22 12:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 150
Lot et Garonne, France
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Stevo666 Offline
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Lot et Garonne, France


In the same way, the belief that generation from domestic use does in fact reach the grid just because alot of the paperwork that has to be filled in to fit it seems a little naive to me when we know that the authors of the paperwork are the same people who sold us the illusory incentive in the first place.

Also I wonder if the paperwork is the same in France as here in UK?



Sorry but unless I have missed something - grid is the term for the DNO cabling coming into your property to the meter. The whole point of export generation is that it lessens the burden on the grid supply - whether that be domestic/commercial or Solar farm.
The authors of the paperwork are the ENA - Energy Networks Association - The big six electricity suppliers (BG/Npower etc) are only selling the end product - they do not transport the product to consumers - that is carried out by National Grid/District Network Operators (DNO) such as UKPN - Western Power etc.
They (National Grid/DNO's) have nothing to gain from any financial incentives, in fact its a burden on the network as generation is only during daylight hours...

Paperwork in France is as expected - 3 copies of everything on paper and wait a year if your lucky...and they are soooo behind the times regarding the technology involved in Solar PV..but as I install only in the UK its not a hardship.



Last edited by Stevo666; 23/09/22 12:43 PM. Reason: grammar
Re: Renewable Reality [Re: nick w] #756349
23/09/22 12:52 PM
23/09/22 12:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 150
Lot et Garonne, France
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Stevo666 Offline
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Lot et Garonne, France
Originally Posted by nick w
I just looked up Llanwern. It's interesting how the whole solar press is subtly misleading. Their front page makes the statement
"The project supplies enough clean energy to power 20,606 households. The project cost is $59.192m".
To my way of thinking that statement implies that many households can be taken off an alternative power source. But, in reality, is it fair to say that those households can only be supplied whilst the panels are working...daylight hours, for instance?
So wouldn't an honourable message be stated as "half the requirements of 20,606 households" Or maybe "the daylight needs of 20,606 households"?
Don't get me wrong, I think the move to renewable is great... it's the misleading nature of the advertising that disturbs me.

Or is there something fundamental that I haven't understood about this particular type of claim?

Nick

Agree that the way they represent Solar farms is misleading - a Solar farm is a power station - it feeds the grid which then feeds anything connected to the grid. I have never understood why they make this comparison to number of households - its probably an easy marketing tool for the average person to be able to grasp. And all households are connected to the same grid as everyone else in the country is connected to.
They broadcast the same type of message for any electricity generation - Wind, Hydro and even nuclear because its what people can relate to.

Re: Renewable Reality [Re: nick w] #756352
23/09/22 01:31 PM
23/09/22 01:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,012
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Scruffy Oik
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Posts: 11,012
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by nick w
wonder why we would bother trying to defend something (the illusion that excess domestic production can be sent to share with others


It's not an illusion. There are around 500,000 11KV -> 240V substations in the UK, and around 50 million domestic meters, so an average of 100 homes per substation. Excess solar generation from one home can be used by any or all of the homes downstream of the substation, thus reducing the draw across the substation transformers and consequently the total load on the grid.

It's a few years out of date now, and doesn't specifically address issues of micro solar generation, but this free book is a really good run-down on how the industry, especially the wholesale market, works.

https://www.cgi.com/uk/en-gb/gb-electricity-for-dummies


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
Re: Renewable Reality [Re: Stevo666] #756355
23/09/22 01:48 PM
23/09/22 01:48 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 496
Hampshire, UK
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IMHO Offline OP
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Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted by Stevo666
Originally Posted by IMHO
Sorry to go off thread a bit but I just got this from British Gas -

“The prime minister recently announced the Government Energy Price Guarantee – meaning that from 1st October, the cost of energy for the average home will be no more than £2,500 a year for the next two years. However, your bill could be higher or lower depending on the size of your home, how many people live there and how much energy you use.”

So that’s clear then. confused


Basically they are capping the price per kwh to 34p - not the overall yearly cost.
An 'average' house consumes 3700 kwh per year rofl so if your a four bedroom then that will probably be at least double that....
A year ago you were paying about 18p kwh.

Come December, the expected price per kwh was 54p


So nice to be above average. :happy3 so who on here only consumes 3700kWh per year (remembering that is the “average”)


M3W Brooklands (2015)
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Re: Renewable Reality [Re: IMHO] #756357
23/09/22 01:49 PM
23/09/22 01:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,145
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nick w Offline
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nick w  Offline
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Yes, but just repeating the premise isn't evidence supporting the conclusion. And a book that doesn't address the issue in question?

I'm open minded about the idea, so I'm looking for evidence.
Nick

Re: Renewable Reality [Re: IMHO] #756359
23/09/22 02:05 PM
23/09/22 02:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,340
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Peter J  Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
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Posts: 15,340
Salisbury, UK
Hmm...3700 kWh per year? Really?

We used 9076 kWh in 2021.... that excludes the 3500 kWh we generated....so almost 13,000 kWh... What average household uses the quantity the Government use in their example?
We presently pay Octopus 28.46p/kWh plus 43.12p/day.


Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
Tarka, 2014 Plus 8....Back on the Road Again!!


Re: Renewable Reality [Re: IMHO] #756361
23/09/22 02:17 PM
23/09/22 02:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,145
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nick w Offline
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Just so you don't think I'm just trying to drive you insane Tim smile
I do understand how the theory works, the invertor matches the incoming supply, ups the voltage a bit which in theory feeds in to the total coming down the line and so the main source reduces it's flow automatically. I get the idea. The point my contact makes ( and I'm beginning to wish I hadn't asked him...) is that the quantities in domestic units are so tiny that the effort leaches it all off in heat.

Anyway, any input appreciated, I'd love to know the reality here.

Nick

Re: Renewable Reality [Re: IMHO] #756493
25/09/22 04:49 PM
25/09/22 04:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 924
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IcePack Offline
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Some very knowledgeable people on this forum. One thing I can’t understand is that the press are saying that the gas produced by fracking will not cause a drop in gas price as it will just be sold at the going rate. But we need more wind farms to reduce our electricity price. Surely the electricity produced will just be sold on the open market at the going rate.


4/4 Ivory 4.1:1 axle, Jaguar XE R-Sport.
Re: Renewable Reality [Re: IMHO] #756498
25/09/22 05:35 PM
25/09/22 05:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,217
Suffolk, England
John V6 Offline
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Suffolk, England
Exactly which is fixed based upon gas generation. mad


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: Renewable Reality [Re: IcePack] #756509
25/09/22 08:38 PM
25/09/22 08:38 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,520
Oxon
PaulV Offline
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Posts: 1,520
Oxon
Originally Posted by IcePack
Some very knowledgeable people on this forum. One thing I can’t understand is that the press are saying that the gas produced by fracking will not cause a drop in gas price as it will just be sold at the going rate. But we need more wind farms to reduce our electricity price. Surely the electricity produced will just be sold on the open market at the going rate.

Exactly. Sounds like we are being mislead. A bit like the doomsayers claiming coal is non-viable due to CO2 (now an obsolete notion given carbon capture schemes are viable / in production, albeit at a cost).


M3W5sp 2015, MSCC, MTWC, Oxon UK
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