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Re: Electric Cars [Re: Hamwich] #756603
26/09/22 09:46 PM
26/09/22 09:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 522
C
ChrisConvertible Offline
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ChrisConvertible  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 522
Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by mph

Once EV's reach critical mass home charging will be taxed.


Not possible as there's no way for any smart meter to distinguish what work the electricity flowing through the home circuitry is being used for. If they tried doing it through wall chargers people would simply switch to using granny chargers plugged into a normal domestic socket.

Most analysts seem to believe that the strategy is to move towards road pricing to replace loss of fuel duty, but they still haven't decided on the best way to do it. My guess is that it will be a combination of extending congestion charging to all built-up areas, implementing route pricing on the heaviest routes, and bunging a mileage charge to be levied at MOT time.


Some states in Australia have a 2.0Cents per KM for PHEV and 2.5Cents for EV's. I think others will bring it in as more cars become PHEV or EV. So $400 or $500 a year for a car doing 20,000km added to your yearly registration costs.

Re: Electric Cars [Re: Hamwich] #756612
27/09/22 07:43 AM
27/09/22 07:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 749
M
mph Offline
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mph  Offline
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M

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 749
Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by mph

Once EV's reach critical mass home charging will be taxed.


Not possible as there's no way for any smart meter to distinguish what work the electricity flowing through the home circuitry is being used for. If they tried doing it through wall chargers people would simply switch to using granny chargers plugged into a normal domestic socket.

Most analysts seem to believe that the strategy is to move towards road pricing to replace loss of fuel duty, but they still haven't decided on the best way to do it. My guess is that it will be a combination of extending congestion charging to all built-up areas, implementing route pricing on the heaviest routes, and bunging a mileage charge to be levied at MOT time.


It is possible as this article explains.

https://www.net2grid.com/post/how-ai-creates-high-value-ev-services-on-top-of-smart-meter-data

Last edited by mph; 27/09/22 07:45 AM.
Re: Electric Cars [Re: mph] #756619
27/09/22 08:10 AM
27/09/22 08:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,012
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Scruffy Oik
Hamwich  Offline
Scruffy Oik
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,012
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by mph


That's a slightly different application, and depends both on having a specific add-on module and the customer participating in the scheme. This is what I meant about 'if they try to do it through wall chargers' - it's easily circumvented by charging through a standard wall socket and using a simple timer to disrupt the charging pattern to avoid being identified.

Yes, it's certainly possible with Smart Meters for suppliers to offer all sorts of tariff variations and additional services to the customer, and enables the customer to take advantage of using their power in a way that enables them to actively leverage value through participating in demand response schemes, but it wouldn't be possible for the government to use it as a means of applying additional tax rates to home EV charging without extensive additional legislation and significant investment.

Why go to all the bother and expense when we already have the necessary infrastructure in place to calculate the tax, collect it, and enforce compliance? Just add a charge to your MOT bill based on the taxation class of the vehicle and the number of miles driven over the last 3 years or since the last inspection. That way it's easy to administer, easy to collect, impossible to avoid, and easily enforced through existing ANPR surveillance. If the Government had any sense at all they could make it even easier by using the existing NSandI services to offer incentives to people to pre-pay their bill, thus further improving govt finances.

Hang on: Use a cheap, simple and effective way of gathering tax when an alternative would be a complex and expensive method which could be easily circumvented and impossible to enforce? You're right. This Govt will try to tax home charging.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
Re: Electric Cars [Re: brownbaker] #756624
27/09/22 10:42 AM
27/09/22 10:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,923
Surrey. UK
Neilda Offline
Part of the Furniture
Neilda  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,923
Surrey. UK
My understanding is that you can no longer install a 'dumb' charger for an EV - it needs to be a 'smart' charger (nothing to do with the meter). The charger will have the capability of informing the electricity supplier when an EV is being charged.

You could, of course, hook it up to a 13 amp socket which would supply 10 miles of range per hour - or 40 miles during the cheap rate - instead of 31 miles of range per hour through a dedicated 7 kWh charger.

The government will need to replace the financial hole that EV's will create with missing fuel duty revenues - road pricing, EV charging levies... they'll find a way.


+8 4.8
Re: Electric Cars [Re: brownbaker] #756626
27/09/22 12:01 PM
27/09/22 12:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,078
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Graham, G4FUJ  Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,078
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
As a sort of aside, there is likely to be an EV running at Prescott this Saturday, in competition (an i3).
Having completed the MSUK marshals accreditation course this year (on line - the times they are a changing!) I have just done their EV course.. It didn't teach much, but at least I passed. smile


Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'09 Alfa Romeo MiTo
Re: Electric Cars [Re: Hamwich] #756628
27/09/22 12:27 PM
27/09/22 12:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,950
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Needs to Get Out More!

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,950
Hampshire
Originally Posted by Hamwich
Hang on: Use a cheap, simple and effective way of gathering tax when an alternative would be a complex and expensive method which could be easily circumvented and impossible to enforce? You're right. This Govt will try to tax home charging.


Ouch, you cynical thing, as if. rofl rofl oops


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: Electric Cars [Re: brownbaker] #756657
27/09/22 03:25 PM
27/09/22 03:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 3,017
L
Luddite Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
Luddite  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 3,017
If interested in solar power on a larger scale this vid might be of interest..?

https://youtu.be/7OpM_zKGE4o

Re: Electric Cars [Re: brownbaker] #756661
27/09/22 05:15 PM
27/09/22 05:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 596
S
sprinty Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
sprinty  Offline
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S

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 596
Forgive me if this article about Morgan and EVs has already been posted. Yes, there are errors such as the date of the suspension change but the article relating to new developments is interesting:

https://www.evo.co.uk/morgan/205248...-ready-for-the-future-of-sports-cars?amp


Morgan 4/4 Sport Competition
Re: Electric Cars [Re: brownbaker] #756668
27/09/22 06:08 PM
27/09/22 06:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 20,631
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 20,631
South Yorkshire
I didn't realise that HFS's sliding pillar suspension was still in use up to 1975.


DaveW
'05 Red Roadster S1
'16 Yellow (Not the only) Narrow AR GDI Plus 4
Re: Electric Cars [Re: brownbaker] #756674
27/09/22 06:46 PM
27/09/22 06:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,217
Suffolk, England
John V6 Online content
Brooklands Register contact
John V6  Online Content
Brooklands Register contact
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,217
Suffolk, England
A very interesting article that.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
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