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Re: My23 brakes [Re: NZPlusSix] #765457
25/12/22 06:07 PM
25/12/22 06:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6,304
Australia - NSW North Coast
OZ 4/4 Offline
Talk Morgan Sage
OZ 4/4  Offline
Talk Morgan Sage

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6,304
Australia - NSW North Coast
Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
Hi
Our 2019 Launch Edition Plus Six has had a replacement master cylinder and a brake booster unit. And YES our master cylinder seals had failed. However while the Plus Six is a vast improvement on earlier Morgans the brakes were scary from Day One.

After the work done under warranty, the brakes, and in particular the brake pedal travel (60mm on average) was the same as before all the work. Presently the car is in the NZ Morgan dealer's workshop where it will stay until we get to the bottom of this brake problem. There will be a solution!

If MMC have managed to improve the brakes on the Y23 CX cars they surely will know what they have changed. Maybe it may not be possible, or desirable, for MMC to rectify the brake problem on earlier cars but that knowledge should be made available to all owners. I suspect that the problem could well be a mechanical and involve changing the brake pedal lever arm, hinge points etc.

The brake problem is in the same basket as the sagging suspension where the quality of the springs was the source of the problem. YES we have replaced our coil over damper units with those specified by SSL. Not only do we have the original ground clearance but we have greatly improved handling. BUT have MMC acknowledged that there was a problem? NO! Will MMC accept that the Plus Six brakes were faulty beyond the master cylinder problem? Not on your Nelly!!
Kerry

Frustrating and a long-term blight on the vehicle and the brand....


A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
Re: My23 brakes [Re: Derek596] #765458
25/12/22 06:10 PM
25/12/22 06:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 83
Katikati NEW ZEALAND
NZPlusSix Offline
Just Getting Started
NZPlusSix  Offline
Just Getting Started

Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 83
Katikati NEW ZEALAND
Hi Ian
Luddite could be right in that brake fluid could be part of the problem, and YES you should get your brake fluid tested for water and replaced when required. We have already done the twice in the Plus Six.

However there is nothing in your car's brake system that cannot be retro-fitted. The brake system is simply an collection of components that starts with the brake pedal and ends with the pad gripping the rotor. To rectify the situation short of ripping the whole system out you need a brake expert with considerable experience. As with your suspension problem you went to suspension design engineers, in our case Peter and Dan at SSL. You didn't just replace the springs or the dampers, but you fitted a purpose designed system. With your brake system it is not an simple as just replacing four complete assemblies. We may well have more than one simple problem so you/we will need to work through the whole system. YES starting at the end of the system by replacing the brake pads may well be a logic, simple and relatively cheap point. And yes you may well effect some improvement.

It's worth a CRACK!!
Kerry


2019 First Edition Plus Six Moonstone Blue
Prev
2017 Plus 4 Auto Ivory
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1939 4-4 Blue
Re: My23 brakes [Re: Derek596] #765464
25/12/22 06:56 PM
25/12/22 06:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 35
Stonehaven, Scotland
I
Ian Hubbard Offline
Just Getting Started
Ian Hubbard  Offline
Just Getting Started
I

Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 35
Stonehaven, Scotland
Hi Kerry,
New pads and brake fluid replacement it is then. As you say, it’s the logical thing to do and the cheapest option. Car currently in winter storage so won’t be done until April.
Hope you get your issues resolved. It does sound as though they are more significant than mine. In some respects I think I’ve been spoilt having driven Lotus for 15 years and they all had brilliant brakes I.e. Elise, Evora and Exiges. I am just trying to get a similar feel and performance.
Please keep us posted.
Cheers
Ian

Re: My23 brakes [Re: Derek596] #765486
25/12/22 11:51 PM
25/12/22 11:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 950
I
IcePack Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
IcePack  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
I

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 950
NZplus six. Yes brakes are brakes & agree this can be sorted. My 4/4 has a completely different system but exhibited similar symptoms re brake travel. It transpired that somehow race spec rear shoes had been fitted. Also the auto adjusters were badly set up. Hence the peddle travel was caused by having to expand the shoes & then not a lot of friction as normal driving, does not really heat up the rears.
How all this came about is still a mystery as I have the invoices for standard shoes not race spec.
Anyway it was all sorted free of charge by the garage owner. Really interesting in how quickly he disassembled & rebuilt the rear brakes, without removing the hubs. But they do support some well known race teams.


4/4 Ivory 4.1:1 axle, Jaguar XE R-Sport.
Re: My23 brakes [Re: Derek596] #765701
28/12/22 07:37 PM
28/12/22 07:37 PM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 219
B
Barry M Offline
L - Learner Plates On
Barry M  Offline
L - Learner Plates On
B

Joined: May 2020
Posts: 219
Iain Litchfield is the man to talk. to re. brake/suspension upgrades for the CX range.. He did the development work for Morgan on the earlier CXs and had a package that transformed the cars. However Morgan did not follow through with it as it was too expensive for them, so they cobbled their own solution together and the result was a recall for brakes and numerous reports of saggy springs and dodgy ground clearance.
I do know that Litchfield developed springs and dampers for the CXs with Nitron and much R&D went into the Nitron package. I believe the brakes Litchfield used for the package were AP Racing but I don't know any more details. Needless to say, Litchfield is not very happy with the way Morgan treated them. but you can go to them and have all or part of the package retrofitted to your CX. This is what I am doing the early part of next year.
If you don't know who Iain Litchfield is, look him up, he has quite some resume and Litchfield Motors is a stone's throw away from the Malvern Works.

Re: My23 brakes [Re: Derek596] #765705
28/12/22 08:45 PM
28/12/22 08:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,168
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,168
Hampshire
Same Litchfield that did all the Japanese import stuff when 22B and GTR was all the rage.
I did not realise that they were so close.


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: My23 brakes [Re: Alistair] #765708
28/12/22 09:18 PM
28/12/22 09:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,849
People's Republic of South Yor...
CooperMan Offline
Just barreling along
CooperMan  Offline
Just barreling along
Charter Member

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,849
People's Republic of South Yor...
Originally Posted by Alistair
Same Litchfield that did all the Japanese import stuff when 22B and GTR was all the rage.
I did not realise that they were so close.

Did they develop the 'Godzilla' GTR ? I know the Litchfield name from somewhere...


Jon M
Re: My23 brakes [Re: Derek596] #765715
28/12/22 10:05 PM
28/12/22 10:05 PM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 219
B
Barry M Offline
L - Learner Plates On
Barry M  Offline
L - Learner Plates On
B

Joined: May 2020
Posts: 219
He is probably the best known BMW tuner in the country and yes he did the GTRs and Supras etc, etc, but his workshop was full of Ferraris, Lambos and McLarens when I was there a couple of weeks ago most being race prepared. There was also a Porsche that had been so modded that I couldn't work out what it was (and forgot to ask).
He is a guru and has been in the top tier for many years.
Morgan were shortsighted (mad) not using the package he developed, as the recall must have cost them far more £££ than the extra cost of the Litchfield package over their failed solution.
Typical Morgan mentality...

Re: My23 brakes [Re: Derek596] #765723
29/12/22 12:20 AM
29/12/22 12:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 35
Stonehaven, Scotland
I
Ian Hubbard Offline
Just Getting Started
Ian Hubbard  Offline
Just Getting Started
I

Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 35
Stonehaven, Scotland
ThAnks for sharing. I will contact Lichfield in the new year.. 👍👍👍

Re: My23 brakes [Re: Derek596] #765733
29/12/22 08:29 AM
29/12/22 08:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 64
Shrewsbury
p8mog Offline
Just Getting Started
p8mog  Offline
Just Getting Started

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 64
Shrewsbury
Let us know how you get on, if all goes well there could be a long queue, me for one.


Heron Grey Plus Four 2021

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