Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Plus 4 2019 (GDI) - Isolator / Key

Just recently one of my car keys has stopped turning off the immobiliser on my 2019 Plus 4 GDI.

Starting procedure is "touch end of key to the ignition key block" (I mean the plastic end of the key where the RFID chip is)
Immobiliser light goes out - insert key - start engine.

Did this several times the other day - and immobiliser light didn't go out - therefore non starting car

Got my spare ignition key - procedure as above - immobiliser light goes out - car starts no problem

From reading the forum and my simple understanding, the RFID chip in the key is "inert" - There is no battery in the key (basically like the security tags on whisky bottles / clothes etc in shops).
So in "theory" - nothing can go wrong with the chip?

Thoughts?

The chip is inert. No battery. But sensitive to temperature, and super sensitive to distance from the sensor ring.

In theory both keys should respond the same, although 1mm difference in location in the key would be enough to make that difference.

Remove the cowl, and check that the sensor ring is as far out towards the key as possible.

As Dave says that is a well known issue.

I physically touch the red section of the key (pic above) to the ignition barrel - so no problem with distance

The RFID is a passive transponder usually embedded in the key but can be standalone as with M3W. The car immobiliser transceiver in the steering column sends out pulses of a very weak RF signal at 13.56 MHz which the transponder in the key bounces back modified with its unique code. The transceiver gates out any incorrect code but allows correct to disable immobiliser. Being a very weak therefore range sensitive signal added to the anomalies of RF transmission there are many factors contributing to it not functioning correctly.

Would the RFI chip in they keyfob of a 2019 car be truly inert ? I understand it does not need a battery as it derives its power from the incoming RF signal, but would it perhaps have an EEPROM to store the particular code for that car and some digital processing circuits. So there would be active components (in the transistor sense) that could fail, rendering the key inoperative. Though it does seem that super sensitivity to key proximity is the main fault mechanism for the immobiliser not being unlocked.

Does anyone know exactly which chip is used in the keyfob ? Just curious (as ever....)

This is one version of a car key RFID system:

https://cecas.clemson.edu/cvel/auto/AuE835_Projects_2011/Velankar_project.html

It may be possible for the capacitor to lose its ability to hold charge.

Ian's key is not the same as my 2016 key. No red block on mine, the transponder is in a drilling at the key end, and covered over with a sort of epoxy filler.

Not inert but maybe passive Dave in the sense it uses none of its own energy. The RF energy comes from the car. Probably simpler than you imagine although likely a programmable chip.

FWIW just found another source which suggest transceiver frequency is 433.92 MHz in Europe so bottom end of UHF band.

On my 2018 key I took the pill out,turned it through 180deg and moved the working end beyond the body of the key and stuck it on the outside of the key with silicone. Then put some heat shrink around it.
Just put the key in the barrel and it works first time 99% of the time.
Edit. PS, the heat shrink does need replacing every year to 18 months.

Interesting and informative article Jon particularly if it describes the immobiliser system in the Plus 4. Thoughts are that the electromagnetic field created by the coil surrounding the ignition key barrel would require it's location to be critical to the magnetic core it interfaces with given the greater energy is transferred from that not the coil per se.

DaveW (thread here) gained some improvements in his by effectively putting it closer to the key born RFID. It strikes me that it's proximity to what becomes the magnetic core is of greater relevance than distance when considering efficient transfer of electromagnetic energy to the capacitor within RFID.

Experience with induction hobs and cordless (induction) phone charging confirm positioning is critical, maybe explaining John's findings above.

One thing I haven't tried is to warm up the coil and key before trying it out. Not a solution, but I'm curious. In 99% of cases, after the first cold start, mine works perfectly the rest of the day.

I would take a bet if you left key in ignition overnight it would start from cold as well Dave.

Not quite the same but very similar system on my 2011 4/4. I have 1 key that works every time. Well so far in 11 Years. The other key fails on occasion. Has done since new.

This morning, I heated the key using my designated garage hairdryer for 30 seconds.

The immobiliser light went out immediately, before the key was fully inserted.

Hardly science, but interesting. I'll repeat it another day.

Thanks for that Dave ... I'll give it a try and report back

This issue is prevalent on my Plus 4. The hole in the cover was enlarged so as the expose the immobiliser ring. Still have to touch the ring with the key fob in order to extinguish the flashing immobiliser light, even after the key has been left in the ignition. Sometimes it actually works without fiddling with the key - but not often. Extra security perhaps?

While I was at it the original black plastic cover was shortened to expose the ribbed steering column, outer end blanked off with a plastic sheet, beefed up with internal stiffening ribs and painted to match the car colour.

Note also the aluminium storage box hung from the side of the lower steering column cover. Good for a sun glasses case or suchlike. Roll on Summer.

Oh Bugga......... Update

I followed Rog's instructions HERE to try and re-programme my non-working ignition key.
I discovered that my "other spare key" doesn't work either . So the re-programming wouldn't work. Which means I only have ONE functioning key (and if that fails I'm bugga'd )

I've just phoned Oakmere Motors to see what the options are...

Guy I spoke to said he'd double check, but as far as he's aware it means disassembling the barrel / transponder from my car, sending it (and the keys) down to the Morgan Factory and having the keys re-programmed, then shipping them back to Oakmere to have the barrel / transponder re-fitted.

Haven't got an idea of cost yet and will mean car off the road for the best part of a month

I'll update this thread when I hear more.

Not "happy" that this occurred on a car that is only 4 years old

Not sure if this will help but I broke one of my keys and went to my local shoe repair/watch battery shops.
He said no problem, took the good key I'd brought in with me. Scanned it into a computer thing, then took a blank from the wall, scanned that with the details from mine then cut the new key. All worked fine.
Might be worth going to one and asking.
Shop was called Timpsoms I think. they are in every town around here.

Have you tried a 'key cutter'? When I needed a new key for my Ford Fiesta (original had twisted due to a stuck boot look), they took the original one, scanned it using some machine, then programmed a new one on the same kit. First attempt didn't work and I could only start the car using the new key in the lock and holding the original one near the column, but I returned and they managed it on their second attempt. Cost about £40.

Wonder if they could produce you a new working key from the remaining one that works?

I've just phoned a Timpsons branch that does key cutting / programming - I'm going to slip over there and see what they say - Thanks for the heads up.Nick W & TBM

Oakmere are stating roughly 3 hrs to disassemble / re-assemble and have no idea of the Morgan Motors cost for programming....... I'd guess not much change from £500 overall - plus the time off the road

Ian, I would talk to the Service Dept direct at MMC, they can hopefully do the reprogramming in-situ whilst you have a tour round the factory