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#78408 - 08/01/12 05:16 PM Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!!
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Hello everyone.
It's another off-season for the Morgan Sprint Series (www.speedmog.co.uk) and it looks like Missprint and I are moving up the classes again. We have spent 2 years in Class 1 - Standard Carb 4/4 upto 1701cc and 2 Years in Class 3 - modified 4/4 upto 1701cc.

Time has flown by during the last 4 years and we have had a great time, lots of fun, some great successes and met some amazing people. Setting many class records, Missprint beating me several times and a rare outright Morgan FTD!!

We have undertaken a lot of development work on the little 4/4 CVH:

Year 1 - Basic race prep - roll-bar, rear suspension hoop, AVO's, bucket seats, scuttle roll-bar, brake reaction bars, race screen. Engine 89bhp & 80FtLb



Year 2 - Blueprinting - Cross-hatch'ed thick wall head, Newmann cam, new block, turbo crank, new carb, minilight weels. 89bhp & 105FtLb




Year 3 - Modification - bore out block 0.5mm, High Compression Pistons, Lightweight Flywheel, New gass-flowed cross-hatched head, solid lifters, race cam, oversize valves, twin 45's, close ration gear-set, omex 3d ignition ecu. 130bhp & 110FtLb - http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/42661/2



Year 4 - Experemented with different cams, upgrade to 4 pot brakes.. that's pretty much it. 135bhp & 110FtLb



Having come to an end in terms of CVH development - there are very few High Power CVH engines out there and the route to this peak requires custom pocketed pistons which I'm not interested in for the cost/bhp benefit.

Through this process we have a great idea on what works and what does not on the CVH.. in the end though I've decided that progression is the order of the day.

You have probably heard me talk about the Zetec E conversion for the CVH cars for a while....I'm going to put my money where my mouth is!! smile - The Zetec E providing a very cost effective upgrade which mates easily to xflow and CVH technology/fitting - similar to many many older Morgans out there. It's readily available in stock injection setup, twin carb and finally throttle-bodies.

Over the last few months I've been working on the research required to complete this conversion as well as sorting out the designs and spec's I'm interested in.

With parts already arriving, over the next few months I'll be working on:
1) Getting engine built (I've developed a good relationship with a Motorsport engine builder - more on that exciting development later). It will be a 2000cc Zetec E black-top engine on Webber DCOE's but will be built to look like a Cosworth BDA with the ancillaries, water rail etc all in period position and look. Should be a real treat on the eyes.
2) Undertake some work on the body of the car to deal with some anticipated aerodynamic issues that will make their presence felt at an increased average speed. Handily Young-One's other half happens to be a PhD Aerodynamicist and he's offered to knock together a flow dynamics computer model to help in this area.. .it's going to be tricky though as we need to stay within the race regs - no large rear wings and the silhouette needs to be retained.
3) Deal with driveline issues - possibly new tyres (size, type, brand) and possibly a Limited Slip Diff.

Through this process I'll keep you all in the loop with photo's and it does mean that there will be an opportunity for a few people to benefit initially from the previous CVH development work at a cost far cheaper than the original build to me. I'll be keeping hold of the original unmolested engine but that's only one of now 3 engines I have - in various states of tune. All parts have been stored in an engineeringly minded way so are top notch condition with little running hours on them. I'll list these out later - when they are no longer needed, but if anyone wants the inside track then drop me a private message.

The "target" is to get the 4/4 to:

1) 750kg's (currently at 790kg's)
2) 240-250bhp (currently at 130bhp)
3) 180FtLb of torque (currently at 110FtLb)
4) Spend significantly less that purchasing an alternative Morgan 4/4, +4, V8

I suspect these targets are going to be just that, we'll be a little off target with each but it sets the aim-of-the-game.

That's all for now.... I'll keep you updated on developments as they happen.



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#78412 - 08/01/12 05:53 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
asbojohn Online   content
le Asbo du Bling
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 23/07/07
Posts: 2583
Loc: Cambridgeshire
Cereal,

Good luck with the coming year and the developments all sound go.

But and it is a VERY BIG BUT, I can't believe you've admitted to being beaten buy a GIRL laugh2 laugh2 laugh2
_________________________
Why have one colour when you can have them all wink

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#78413 - 08/01/12 05:59 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: asbojohn]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: asbojohn
I can't believe you've admitted to being beaten buy a GIRL laugh2 laugh2 laugh2
At least I didn't have to pay extra for it.. I think that makes me one lucky guy wink. Maybe it's her national tendencies coming out.

Thanks for the vote of support btw... it's going to be one very exciting development.

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#78415 - 08/01/12 06:38 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1120
Loc: South Warwickshire
Although not particularly interested in modding my car, I found the write up and the photoes really interesting. Good luck with your plans.
_________________________
2011 Plus 4

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#78420 - 08/01/12 07:06 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Wirewheel]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Hey,

I knew there was something interesting coming. I'm looking forward to seeing this out in action!!

Pal of mine in S. Glos is putting just the same motor in his road going CVH 4/4. Will be on carbs, Omex ignition. Not going racing though.

Hope all goes well - look forward to reading the updates right here! thumbs

Cheers,
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#78436 - 08/01/12 10:05 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Aeroman Offline
Lord Trois-Roues
Charter Member

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 5739
Loc: In transit...
Originally Posted By: cerealsurfer
Through this process I'll keep you all in the loop with photo's and it does mean that there will be an opportunity for a few people to benefit initially from the previous CVH development work at a cost far cheaper than the original build to me. I'll be keeping hold of the original unmolested engine but that's only one of now 3 engines I have - in various states of tune. All parts have been stored in an engineeringly minded way so are top notch condition with little running hours on them. I'll list these out later - when they are no longer needed, but if anyone wants the inside track then drop me a private message.

The "target" is to get the 4/4 to:

1) 750kg's (currently at 790kg's)
2) 240-250bhp (currently at 130bhp)
3) 180FtLb of torque (currently at 110FtLb)
4) Spend significantly less that purchasing an alternative Morgan 4/4, +4, V8

I suspect these targets are going to be just that, we'll be a little off target with each but it sets the aim-of-the-game.

That's all for now.... I'll keep you updated on developments as they happen.

Great write-up Andrew and congrats to both of you on your success' so far! flag flag

Looking forward to hearing more about your racing exploits and of course, Missprint's too. cheers

Cheers
Brian

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#78445 - 09/01/12 07:06 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Aeroman]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
First two photos at Curborough - who is that sitting in Smithy's car - doesn't look like him!
2nd two at Gurston. Fifth also at Gurston?

Looking forwad to an interesting season!

Cheers,
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#78447 - 09/01/12 07:28 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
A11OGE Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 14/05/07
Posts: 2403
Loc: Reading
Why did you choose the Zetec E, and not the Mazda VVT 2.0 lt. as in the new +4 SS. Was it because of the easier fit to gearbox etc?
_________________________
Steve A11OGE Red 1989 4/4 4 seater

'A Morgan is for life, not just for Sundays'

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#78451 - 09/01/12 08:05 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: A11OGE]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: A11OGE
Why did you choose the Zetec E, and not the Mazda VVT 2.0 lt. as in the new +4 SS. Was it because of the easier fit to gearbox etc?

Broadly yes... the Mazda VVT is a more expensive unit new or used. It also requires a more expensive ECU (to control the VVT), alternative flywheel and bellhousing (as it does not mate to a standard Ford bolt pattern). It also has a reversed orientation with intake on the RHS and the Exhaust on the LHS as you face the front of the car.

This would mean modifying the bay pannels and fabricating a new exhaust whereas I'm aiming to use as much off the shelf as possible. Remember I already have the intake holes on the car.

I also wanted to keep the car looking reasonably period. The Duratec would stick out and there is no parts to make it BDA-a-like.

The latest Morgans run the Mazda/Ford Duratec derivative and have done for a while... it would be simpler to purchase a new car. I also think the cost of engine only upgrade would begin to overlap in the "buy a new car" terrarory.

Think of this as an easy and cost effective upgrade for any older 4/4.

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#78453 - 09/01/12 08:06 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ
First two photos at Curborough - who is that sitting in Smithy's car - doesn't look like him!
2nd two at Gurston. Fifth also at Gurston?

Looking forwad to an interesting season!

Cheers,

The first pic is probably the taster day so not sure.
Last pic is Castle Combe

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#78454 - 09/01/12 08:11 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
A11OGE Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 14/05/07
Posts: 2403
Loc: Reading
Originally Posted By: cerealsurfer
Originally Posted By: A11OGE
Why did you choose the Zetec E, and not the Mazda VVT 2.0 lt. as in the new +4 SS. Was it because of the easier fit to gearbox etc?

Broadly yes... the Mazda VVT is a more expensive unit new or used. It also requires a more expensive ECU (to control the VVT), alternative flywheel and bellhousing (as it does not mate to a standard Ford bolt pattern). It also has a reversed orientation with intake on the RHS and the Exhaust on the LHS as you face the front of the car.

This would mean modifying the bay pannels and fabricating a new exhaust whereas I'm aiming to use as much off the shelf as possible. Remember I already have the intake holes on the car.

I also wanted to keep the car looking reasonably period. The Duratec would stick out and there is no parts to make it BDA-a-like.

The latest Morgans run the Mazda/Ford Duratec derivative and have done for a while... it would be simpler to purchase a new car. I also think the cost of engine only upgrade would begin to overlap in the "buy a new car" terrarory.

Think of this as an easy and cost effective upgrade for any older 4/4.


Cheers - Hope to catch up with you and Team Miller at a few more events this year.
_________________________
Steve A11OGE Red 1989 4/4 4 seater

'A Morgan is for life, not just for Sundays'

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#78461 - 09/01/12 09:17 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
inkyfingers Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 27
Loc: Royal Unstone Green
Yep: first pic is a taster day, that's Emily, my baby daughter, who had a great day there. Since then, she's done an autosolo and a CT. No sprinting though.
_________________________
1993 4/4, nice green grille
1966 Landie S2a
Mamod Steam roller, Traction Engine and car.

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#78463 - 09/01/12 09:26 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: inkyfingers]
Jays Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 3335
Loc: worcestershire UK
Really fascinating update Cerealsurfer......keep the details coming AND some photos too!!
_________________________
Jay

2010 4/4 "Super Sport "

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#80289 - 29/01/12 12:14 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Jays]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
UPDATE 1

Well it's been a couple of weeks now I thought I'd let you all know how things are coming along. TBH it's mostly been a lot of planning and phone calls.

Main engine

2 weekends ago we dropped our donor 2.0 Blacktop Zetec E engine upto our engine builder. A large package of parts arrived from Raceline just in time to take some of the key components, Alu Sump etc. up with the engine.

Since then we've been in regular contact sorting out the Clutch/Fly combo and choosing to to get the Cylinder Head soda blasted and 4mm ball bath polished.

The Water Rail from Raceline whilst Alu looked a quality component the finish was "cast" style and whilst neat it's possibly not in keeping with the BDA cover or how I want the engine to be finished aesthetically. So we kept hold of this and popped it over to Premier Plating a neighbouring company. They buffed the surface on their industrial wheels to give a really shiny finish.



Unfortunately their smallest wheel is not quite small enough to get into the corners, so out came the small polishing and porting kit to get it really shiny all around. You can see the difference where the lips and tight corners are.



We'll now ship this back to the engine builder for incorporation into his workflow.

Next up Tyres
Last year we saw G-D-S test a Yokohama road tyre for the factory on the track. Toyo's T1R's have dominated the scene for a while as the size of 185/55/15 is pretty hard to get and the performance price point makes them ideal. A couple of years ago Yokohama launched a tyre called the Advan AD08, it's lineage sits on the 1B side of the Yokohama product line but it'a a 1A tyre. To give you an idea the AD08's have a wear rating of 180 Vs. 280 for the Toyo's. The main complaint for the Toyo's is also the flexibility of the side-wall which allows a lot of lateral movement when pushing them. This year Yokohama introduced a 185/55/15 and a 205/50/15 into their range which has attracted me to take a look. To get an independent view I nipped along to Adam's and Page the UK's largest Yokohama Motorsport dealer who is also a Toyo leading agent for a discussion with him (handily he is also just round the corner from us). We whipped a couple of tyres off the shelf and compared to our current wheel tyre set-up. I'm looking for a wider tyre for the rear to help control some of the power we're going to have available. In the end, we ordered a test set to trial how they fit onto the car, after all we've not tried a 205/50/15 on the rear and we have to be careful on the fronts as any wider tyre (even in moulding tolerance) could potentially interfere with the top end of the sliding pillar spring.

To give you a comparison here is the difference on the rears.



Having test fit both a front and a rear, I'm happy to report they both fit fine and I'm looking forward to measuring on the telemetry system the increase in lateral G that this set-up allows.

Dash
The next activity we have to get sorted is our dash... the current set-up is partially not currently working (spedo) and we've been running on a faulty rev-counter which wanders badly. In order to integrate the Omex 200 ECU and the Race Technology DL1 I already have I've decided to upgrade the Dash 3 we have to a RT Dash 2 (they also handily offer an upgrade scheme to control costs). It's a full dash with indicator, headlight, parking brake etc. it's indglo, completely programmable and a 3 way serial is available for seamless integration. It also meets the MOT and RTA requirements so can completely replace what we have.





The current dash will be taken out this week and a replacement template will be cut from Alu sheet. A new layout will be designed next weekend and we've decided to cover it in Carbon Vinyl to keep things simple.



Other things that have now been sorted:

Availability of LSD, Race Fuel Tank, Anti-tramp bars and the supply of a side exit exhaust (and ongoing supply for 2.0 Zetec E conversions made to template) - watch this space.

That's all for now folks... more work and pictures soon!!!

Cereal

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#80296 - 29/01/12 01:07 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1120
Loc: South Warwickshire
Cereal, I did enjoy reading your update. Thanks
_________________________
2011 Plus 4

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#80299 - 29/01/12 01:41 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Wirewheel]
Jays Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 3335
Loc: worcestershire UK
Thanks for the pictures Cereal and the update. Look forward to more soon!
_________________________
Jay

2010 4/4 "Super Sport "

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#80309 - 29/01/12 04:26 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Jays]
SpeedMog Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 1694
Loc: Northwich, Cheshire
Where are you going to fit the KERS and the DRS??

hide
_________________________
Phil Egginton

"Think very carefully… because if you ever start, you will never leave it alone"

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#80330 - 29/01/12 07:08 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: SpeedMog]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: SpeedMog
Where are you going to fit the KERS and the DRS??

hide

KERS...DRS.....LOL

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#80351 - 30/01/12 06:11 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: SpeedMog]
Gambalunga Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 2069
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Originally Posted By: SpeedMog
Where are you going to fit the KERS and the DRS??

hide

Given all that bright work there will be plenty of OOOs and AHs.

Seriously though it looks like it is going to be a show car as well as a race car. Stunning! I hope to see it in the metal one day.
_________________________
Peter
Plus 4, Sport White (Ivory) Mulberry trim

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#80744 - 03/02/12 11:16 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Gambalunga]
Jim Mountain Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 24/03/08
Posts: 285
Loc: Chesham Bucks
Give Billy Bellinger a call ref your LSD (JB Sports Engineering) email me if you want his number.

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#80951 - 05/02/12 10:01 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Jim Mountain]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: Jim Mountain
Give Billy Bellinger a call ref your LSD (JB Sports Engineering) email me if you want his number.

I'll drop him a line as I need to sort out both the LSD and getting it put into the housing.

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#82011 - 18/02/12 08:45 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Sorry it's been quiet on the western front. I've been busy in the background though so here's an update with plenty of pictures.

First Job - Dash
A couple of weekends ago we stripped the existing dash out of the car, handily where we had rebuilt most of the car a couple of years ago all the labelling of the wiring harness is still in situ. Saved a bit of a job.



We then stripped down the old dash as we'd added and cleaned up various aspects to make it suitable for racing rather than driving miss daisy.



This could then be used to make a new dash blank, as I mentioned earlier, I looked at a carbon sheet for a dash but its pretty pricy and I'm not sure its easy to work with?? Anyhow an aluminium plate with Carbon effect viynl seemed a better easier and cost effective option. So we used the old dash outline to create a Aluminium dash blank outline. As I am going to use a Race Technology Dash 2 most of the old gauges and dash lights are not going to be needed so we also need to sort out a new layout.. anyhow, first off lets get a blank sorted....



Now to sort the layout, as a race car visibility and proximity is important, from experience, whilst the glove box cover mounted telemetry system was easily mounted and usable it was not really easy to get to from the driver seat whilst strapped in. Something closer would be nice. None of the headlight, indicator, warning light lamps would be needed as they are integrated into the Dash 2 and neither will be the oil temp, oil pressure and voltage gauges. So in the end only the switch gear and the fuel gauge is required.

Handily the Dash 2 is the right shape to be seen by the driver through the steering wheel - none the less, it's outline was traced to ensure location of the display.



Having cut out all the holes required the DL1 telemetry mount needs to be bonded to the blank - the mount needs to hold the DL1 horizontally and in a secure fashion. Given the slight incline of the dash in a Morgan a custom bracket needed to be fabricated. We decided to bond the bracket to the dash as a bolt type attachment would only mess up the front of the dash when the vinyl is on.







Once the bond was dry we took the dash down to a local sign company we use to get it Vinyl wrapped. They do several types of carbon wrap from shiny finish mostly graphic print through to matt finish, thick texturised realistic carbon finish. After some consideration we decided on the matt finish as we have had in the past, mainly on Aero's reflection problems with the turned ali dash plate. The only downside is that this type of vinyl cannot be wrapped around sharp angles which means we have had to trim around the dash blank rather than wrap over the edges. I don't think this is going to be a problem though as all the dash components have facia covers so you'll never be able to see the edge and we have painted the lower edge of the ali plate in black. Any-how, the picture below shows as far as we have progressed on this job.




Replacement fuel tank & Limited Slip Diff

I've made a number of calls this week, chasing down progress of the fuel tank and bracket (Mulfab) and talking to J B Sports Engineering (Billy Bellinger) about getting the 7HA axle refurbished and fitted with an LSD. When I spoke to JB he said there was a choice, refurbished original 7HA plate LSD, Gripper (new style plate type) LSD and Quaife ramp style. All reliable and about the same price. So Quaife unit was the one I went for. So need to strip out the rear Axle to send it off and at the same time strip out the tank and wooden boards that it sits on.

So this week the car started out on all 4 wheels running and mobile, I think this is the last time its going to be like this until its finished.




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#82012 - 18/02/12 08:45 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
First job was to strip out the old tank, having drained the tank we disconnected the filler pipe, which was perished (Which was an eye opener given its only 4 years old) followed by disconnecting the fuel gauge sensor and disconnecting the fuel feed and return pipes. As we won't be needing the wooden planks under the fuel tank for the new tank we cut them out and dropped the tank out that way.



You can see the fuel pipes we fitted as part of the race safety prep a couple of years ago sticking up in the middle of the spare wheel tank opening.



You can also see the wheel centralising and lowering blocks just under the near side of the axle.

The new tank will be one of these...



mounted by a direct mount bracket which allows quick access



Having sorted out the tank, next on the list was the back axle. This needed to be stripped out of the car and packaged off to be sent to JB Engineering this week, once this was done the car is unlikely to be back on 4 wheels for a 2-3 weeks!!

First up stripping out the Avo's



Also disconnecting the rear brakes stripping the drums and shoes.

To get the axle out of the car, you have to take the half shafts out. Luckily they came out with only mild persuasion and we could strip them out quickly.



This meant we could easily drop the rear axle out of the car and package it up for JB Engineering.





This left a pile of parts that won't be going near the car again for a while, and in some cases ever again.



This left the little car pretty disabled with no rear end...


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#82013 - 18/02/12 08:46 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795


That's a lot of work for one day.. so we need to get packed up and get the car mobile for the week. So what we decided to do was to put the car back on the trailer using wood blocks as a cradle for the rear of the car. To get it onto the trailer though we needed to drop the car onto the trailer rather than lift it from underneath. So first up is to get the lift arms out using stands.



We can then "hang" the car from the lift arms. One strop round a wooden plank under the front chassis arms and then two short strops round the roll-bar as its attached to the chassis with some seriously over engineered brackets and bolts. We get a flying car!!





This allowed us to drop the car gently onto the trailer which we slid under the floating car.





That's all for this week.. its all been put away for the week. Mulfab should be sending the tank back next week along with the Anti-tramp bars so I'll post photo's. The Dash still needs finishing so I'll be back on that next week to get that ready for when the engine arrives and the harness can be connected up.

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#82020 - 18/02/12 09:55 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Jays Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 3335
Loc: worcestershire UK
Thanks Cereal......some really fascinating stuff there smile
_________________________
Jay

2010 4/4 "Super Sport "

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#82028 - 19/02/12 05:56 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Jays]
Sukram Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 315
Loc: Belgium
Originally Posted By: Jays
Thanks Cereal......some really fascinating stuff there smile
+1 love
and the cost, where you are?
_________________________
Don't Worry, Be Happy
Morgan 4/4 1985
BMW R1200 GS

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#82048 - 19/02/12 08:55 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Sukram]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: Sukram
Originally Posted By: Jays
Thanks Cereal......some really fascinating stuff there smile
+1 love
and the cost, where you are?

Currently within target... ie. less than the cost of upgrading to either a +4 or +8 racer.

The engine is the interesting part for us, Zetec E engine conversion packages will be offered based on the work we are doing. Standard 2.0 (130-150), Fast Road 2.0 (150-200) and Sprint 2.0 (200-250). Options around brakes etc. will be offered along side.

We are working with an Engine development company to make these off-the-shelf with pre-coded ecu's (designed for us) to control costs. Twin DCOE's or TB's

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#82078 - 19/02/12 03:12 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1120
Loc: South Warwickshire
Thanks for the posting, good to be kept abreast of your progess.
_________________________
2011 Plus 4

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#82233 - 20/02/12 07:30 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Wirewheel]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Excellent stuff!
Like the bit about 'flying car'. Look forward to seeing it fly when it's all back together thumbs smile
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#82262 - 20/02/12 11:17 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
Aeroman Offline
Lord Trois-Roues
Charter Member

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 5739
Loc: In transit...
Originally Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ
Excellent stuff!

Yes, it makes a really interesting read Andrew. coffee

Good luck to you and Missprint for the season. wine flag
_________________________
Reality is an illusion that occurs due to a lack of wine wine

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#82268 - 20/02/12 01:32 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Aeroman]
A11OGE Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 14/05/07
Posts: 2403
Loc: Reading
Just seen your mogworksracing web site. I can see that I may have to make it a favourite.

re "The engine is the interesting part for us, Zetec E engine conversion packages will be offered based on the work we are doing. Standard 2.0 (130-150), Fast Road 2.0 (150-200) and Sprint 2.0 (200-250). Options around brakes etc. will be offered along side.

We are working with an Engine development company to make these off-the-shelf with pre-coded ecu's (designed for us) to control costs. Twin DCOE's or TB's
" - Is this something you are going to offer the general public? spend


Edited by A11OGE (20/02/12 01:32 PM)
_________________________
Steve A11OGE Red 1989 4/4 4 seater

'A Morgan is for life, not just for Sundays'

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#82276 - 20/02/12 02:18 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: A11OGE]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: A11OGE
Just seen your mogworksracing web site. I can see that I may have to make it a favourite.

re "The engine is the interesting part for us, Zetec E engine conversion packages will be offered based on the work we are doing. Standard 2.0 (130-150), Fast Road 2.0 (150-200) and Sprint 2.0 (200-250). Options around brakes etc. will be offered along side.

We are working with an Engine development company to make these off-the-shelf with pre-coded ecu's (designed for us) to control costs. Twin DCOE's or TB's
" - Is this something you are going to offer the general public? spend


Yep.. that's the idea, there are plenty of pre, x-flow and cvh Mogs running around for whom moving to more modern tech will give ease of drivability, maintenance and reliability.

The trick for us is to keep the cost down and utilise as much of the existing kit as possible (gearbox etc)... and TBH keep the engine looking reasonably period (including looking into modified DCOE castings with injector fittings). Ford is also a period Morgan supplier of engines so the Zetec E should have no cultural challenges around authenticity.

Hopefully using our experience we will be able to get a repeatable and by-the-numbers approach which gives a predictable outcome and quality.

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#82278 - 20/02/12 02:22 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
A11OGE Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 14/05/07
Posts: 2403
Loc: Reading
Originally Posted By: cerealsurfer
Originally Posted By: A11OGE
Just seen your mogworksracing web site. I can see that I may have to make it a favourite.

re "

We are working with an Engine development company to make these off-the-shelf with pre-coded ecu's (designed for us) to control costs. Twin DCOE's or TB's
" - Is this something you are going to offer the general public? spend


Yep.. that's the idea, there are plenty of pre, x-flow and cvh Mogs running around for whom moving to more modern tech will give ease of drivability, maintenance and reliability.


I guess I am going to have to buy your Dad a few pints at the next TVMOG noggin. thinking
_________________________
Steve A11OGE Red 1989 4/4 4 seater

'A Morgan is for life, not just for Sundays'

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#83040 - 25/02/12 10:39 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: A11OGE]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Another weekend and another chance to get some work done on getting the race car one step closer to the first race of the season.

First off this weekend was checking out the new tank which arrived from Mulfab along with the Anti-tramp bars. Second but main activity was getting the dash finished as it was still a dash covered blank.

Fuel Tank
A big box arrived from Mulfab this week as expected which heralded the arrival of the foam filled lightweight tank. So in a very Christmas style moment, first activity of the day was to open the box and quickly compare to the old tank.



You can see the tank vent on the left (red) and the dip stick on the right.



You can see in this picture the mounting bracket which does away with the wooden boards.



At the rear on the left you can see the LHS and RHS pick-up pipes from inside the tank and also the Fuel return pipe if you are using injection (or some carbs have this).

I asked Mulfab for a tank which I could use with Carbs but also use with injection in the future if I wished, so this tank is suitable for both.



The tank itself is foam filled to stop sloshing



This is looking inside the tank where the fuel gague sensor goes..



A quick check to compare to the old tank and all's good!!! smile



That done... on to getting the dash sorted.



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#83043 - 25/02/12 11:16 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Sorting out the Dash
So onto the main job for the weekend getting the dash in.

This is how we left the dash... as a black cut out covered in carbon effect vinyl.



So we need to take things forward, I've dummied the gauges and switches up to the dash blank so really the next job it so graft on the RaceTechnology Dash2 harness to the original Morgan loom.



Most of the original gauges and warning lights are all integrated into the single Dash2 chassis so there is going to be a lot of soldering. The Dash2 also has channel expanders which allow the addition of 4 Analogue inputs to be wired directly into the Dash display and passed back to the RachTechnology DL1 for logging purposes. I happen to have spares left on the DL1 but this could be used for Engine Temp, Battery Voltage, Oil Pressure etc... It does also do Fuel gague function but apparently it can be hard to calibrate so I've decided to stick with the original gauge. In my case the DL1 will also feed a GPS speed to the dash for display. I've invested in a special cable which connects the RaceTechnology DL1 Data Logger to the Dash2 but also has a connector for the Omex 100 ECU allowing RPM etc to be fed directly from the ignition controller.



Having labelled up the multi-pin connectors it was time to start cutting down the redundant parts of the original Morgan Loom and soldering on the main connectors. This was done as sympathetically so we could save/re-use as many of the connectors or laps as possible if we needed to in the future. We also shrink wrapped the joins to protect them from corossion.



You can see this is going to be a long job with 20 or so connectors to get through... Dad and I settled in for the afternoon. The result of a lot of soldering and use of a heat-gun can be seen in the pics below.





.... several hours later.....this was all sorted. So now to offer up the dash to the car and get it mounted.... the first fit can be seen below.



You can see the DL1 on the mount we bonded onto the dash last weekend. It seems to be working out great. There were a few extra holes to drill to mount the dash up as we had intended to put screws across the top not just the sides.

You can see by looking at the back of the dash how the RactTechnology loom cleans up the harness. You can also see the DL1 with it's sensor set wired in.



Back of the rocker switches and DL1.. you can really tell there are less dash items to wire in.



So.. what does all this hard work look like...? time for the reveal.



I'm pretty happy with the look, nice and sharp and pretty minimalist which is a good thing considering you want all the important information right in front of you.

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#83044 - 25/02/12 11:17 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Question is, does everything work, that's a lot of wiring that could be incorrect.. do ya feel lucky????? we handily the methodical approach we had taken meant that everything worked first time around smile smile



We tested all the functions that are wired in, which is all the lights, there will be some more elements once we get the engine back from the builders. But given it was getting on for 8pm, it was time to call it a day. Time well spent.





That's all for this week!!!!!

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#83093 - 26/02/12 05:44 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
I'm in London tomorrow. If I escape early enough, might stick my nose around the door.
Serious progress! And use of midnight oil smile

Cheers,
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#83107 - 26/02/12 09:04 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
SimonH Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 23/02/10
Posts: 28
If I knew you were going to post pictures of the inside, I would have cleaned off the marker pen notes!

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#83111 - 26/02/12 09:29 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: SimonH]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: SimonH
If I knew you were going to post pictures of the inside, I would have cleaned off the marker pen notes!

Just shows it's made by engineers and not by machines. Makes it more real somehow.
Thanks for your work....... thumbs

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#83115 - 26/02/12 10:10 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Jays Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 3335
Loc: worcestershire UK
I'm probably a bit thick.......but if the tank is full of foam how come the interior shot showing Simon's marker pen notes?
_________________________
Jay

2010 4/4 "Super Sport "

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#83117 - 26/02/12 10:24 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Jays]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: Jays
I'm probably a bit thick.......but if the tank is full of foam how come the interior shot showing Simon's marker pen notes?

That's the internal void where the fuel level sensor goes

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#83187 - 27/02/12 03:57 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Bodger Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 440
Loc: Switzerland
Does the foam affect the time for filling the tank?
_________________________
1967 4/4 1500 Comp.
1935 Super Sports Barrelback

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#83193 - 27/02/12 04:55 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Bodger]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: Bodger
Does the foam affect the time for filling the tank?

No idea not filled it yet.. but I would expect not given the viscosity of fuel.

Simon H will probably be able to give a more definitive answer

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#83194 - 27/02/12 04:59 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Good to see the car in the metal this afternoon.
Thanks to Brian and Ann for the coffee and chat while I unwound from a wasted trip into London - calling in to High Wycombe was the highling of the day smile

Cheers,
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#85581 - 17/03/12 06:34 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
sprinty Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 27/11/07
Posts: 352
How much lighter was the aluminium fuel tank compared to the original?

John

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#85588 - 17/03/12 08:09 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
That should say highlight...

Be interested in the tank too - my steel one will need replacing one day and I'd like a little greater range...

Cheers,
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#85674 - 18/03/12 09:38 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Well I had a huge adventure with the fuel tank yesterday. I'll post some photo's but the net result is it's not in the car but back to Mulfab for some adjustments....

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#85727 - 18/03/12 06:20 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Sorry things have been a bit quiet, unfortunately sometimes life gets in the way.. anyhow, this weekend back to business!! smile

General Update
Unfortunately we have run into a few delays over the last few weeks.

Engine
PEC the conrod manufacturer has had some delays in importing the Zetec E rods we need. It's a bit annoying as we went with PEC for a couple of reasons, one of which was turn around time. If we knew this delay would exist we would have gone with another supplier, Arrow/Cosworth or Carrillo. Anyhow, latest news is that they are coming through and we should have the engine sometime next week. We've also been resolving the Flywheel and Clutch combo, initially we were going to use a modified 1800zetec flywheel with a Zetec clutch and longer thrust bearing. However when the donor flywheel was checked the Clutch bolt holes were a couple of thou out and would cause extreme vibration at the RPM's we're looking at. Plan B was to use the modified TTV Zetec flywheel and Pinto clutch on my existing CVH engine. Unfortunately this flywheel does not have a Crank position trigger pattern milled into it, so in the end "it's no dice" on that front. Now we are back to open options I'm inclined to go with the "right" option, so I'm thinking of going for a TTV Zetec Superlight Flywheel with either a 7.25inch or 5.5inch clutch pack. Ideally a twin plate ceramatallic 5.5 inch package to keep rotating masses down. Anyhow, jury is still out on this, tbc next week.

Axle
Having shipped the back Axle up to JB Engineering three weeks ago, I'd not been aware that they were in a 2 week shutdown for charity work. An honourable task to be delayed by and now they are back they are turning around the axle pronto but this only started Tuesday last week when they returned. ETA on this is likely to be next week as well....

Could have the engine and axle back at the same time!!

Main Update - Fuel tank
This week we lifted the car back off the trailer and went about fitting the tank. We quickly ran into a few snags. The tank is, in outline "the right shape", just the filler and the fuel sender unit is in the wrong place for our car. Possibly this is suited to an earlier 4/4. Anyhow you can see the problem below.




So... following a quick phone conversation to Peter at Mulfab (who was very accomodating) we spent the rest of the day revising/remarking the layout for a replacement to be made. In addition we designed the swirl pot we need which can be used now for carbs but also in the future if we go injection.

Firstly we needed to validate the outline measurements of the frame. We unbolted the tank from the frame and mounted the frame in position. Using an extended square we measured the limitations of the volume of the space. Once checked we knew that the tank itself would fit into the available hole using the carrier. The problem seemed to be specfically the location of the filler and fuel sender unit. The filler snags the rear frame of the driver tub and there is not enough height for the fuel sender unit to protrude above the tank - as the tank would almost touch the top of the evailable hole.

We re-mounted the tank to the frame and held it up on an axle stand and used masking tape to mark out the limitations and revised attachment fitting locations. As it will have to be a new tank, we have also taken the opportunity to mark out ideal locations for the LH and RH fuel pick up connectors and the fuel return connector. These have been marked out to be ideally placed for a rear mounted 1.2lt swirl pot. (the white paper cylinder).





We had been advised to put the swirl pot where the battery used to be, behind the seats, whilst this probably works, it doesn't help accessibility and would require quite a lot of pipe-work..... so we had a look to see where else could work. In the end we've plumped for a swirl pot just over a litre above the LHS of the tank. If we moved the connectors to the top of the tank this would result in much shorter runs of pipework and easy access to both the swirl pot itself and all three of the fuel pumps.

Our proposal is the following:





On the RHS at the rear of the swirl pot there are the two lift feeds coming from the RHS top surface of the tank. The output feed to the engine is at the lower front (you can see the existing metal fuel pipes sticking up). The overflow from the top of the swirl pot can feed back down into the return just to the LHS of the swirl pot. The remaining feed that we won't need right now but will do in the future is the injection return. It's the second of the metal fuel pipes sticking up and will also have a feed back into the Swirl pot.

The net result is the following outline:





Next week could be a big week with many things all happening at once, the axle and engine could be ready to return. The Fuel tank shortly after.

We need this to happen as we only have 7 weeks until Race 1 (5/6 May) and once all this hardware is fitted the Librahds exhaust needs making/fitting. Once this has been fabricated the engine can be started for the first time and the 3D ignition ECU and carbs need sorting.

It's looking like things are going to get busy!!! wink

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#86858 - 01/04/12 07:33 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
So where did we leave things....!?
Ah yes.. Engine - delayed due to con rods, Fuel Tank - Back to Mulfab for re-manufacture and Axle still with JB Engineering getting sorted out.

So where are we now....?

Mulfab came up trumps... thanks for turning round a great tank in a short space of time along with custom swirl pot! JB Engineering also delivered the axle so we've had a couple of pretty major jobs on. We were aiming to have the engine back this weekend as well but it looks like that is going to be next week now – not that we’re short of things to do, but we are slightly behind plan on getting things turned around, handily I’d planned some slippage time into the programme so we’re still ok for the 5th/6th May first race.

First job on the list was to get the Axle back in, we were also installing anti-tramp bars as well so these jobs can get done at the same time.

The anti-tramp bars require some modification of the heel board to get them tucked through into the cabin to slide onto the front spring mounting bolt.



In the week the seats were removed and the relevant modifications were made to the heel board.



Peter up at Mulfab said that the metal bar across the rear edge of the heel board base needs modification (a notch cut out) so the anti-tramp bars can articulate to the lowest point without bending them. You can see the problem below, clearly the Anti-tramp bar is not going to go low enough to put the bolt through.



In our case this was not enough and in the end decided to remove the cross bar and cut the board back to the heel board and move the cross bar forwards. You can see where we have removed the bar and cut the board back.



Whilst this makes an ideal fix for the Anti-tramp bars it introduces a complication with the brake line mounting bracket which needs to be cut off the cross bar as the flexi pipe is too short otherwise. So what to do there? We decided in the end to cut a small piece of angle and re-weld the brake pipe bracket to keep it in the original position.



With the brake bracket re-welded



The Anti-tramp bars could now be easily mounted appropriately with no interference or potential bending issues.





Onto the Axle

The new Quaife loaded Axle casing was slotted back into the chasses and mounted up with the Anti-Tramp brackets and longer U-bolts. Unfortunately these do not clear the chassis at full articulation so a slight recess needs to be put into the chassis so that the bolts clear ok.



With the recess cut




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#86859 - 01/04/12 07:45 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Once secured into the car the first half shaft was slotted into place, located into the diff end, re-fitting the shims that came off the car and the backing plates and hub re-attached along with AVO adjustable shock. Onwards to the O/S!! (pic shows the back plate removed)



Upon attempting to slide in the O/S half shaft it located ok into the diff splines but then bottomed out, mechanical interference somewhere along the line was not allowing it to fit.



After a bit of head scratching and phone calls, it turns out that whilst the axle is the same the new diff is slightly different in size which means the shims need to be custom spaced upon fitting the half shafts. The reason the N/S had slid in ok is that it had pushed one of the planet gear axle's through to protrude to the O/S, (the shiny dot at the end in the pic below)



hence mechanical interference (can be seen by the circular imprint in the masking tape on the end of the half shaft in the pic below).



So in the end we stripped back down the N/S and tested the imparted theory which allowed the centralisation of the half shafts and diff planet gear axle... so.. now we're stumped as we need 3.5mm worth of shims each side to progress... more head scratching next week to source those!

Next up, the revised tank.. our pencilled up design was as follows;



Mulfab's revision can be seen in it's full glory (we hoped it fitted ok)!



Frst off, we offered up the frame to make sure that went in ok. It did, stage one completed - all's well.





Now onto step two. Getting the tank itself into position, this was a little more tricky. To get the tank in, we lifted the tank into position from the top and held it up then positioned the frame underneath, this is not how it's supposed to be done, the tank is supposed to be mounted to the frame and swung up into position using the rear ledge of the tank frame as the fulcrum on the rear cross member. Our car however has the rear axle locating spacers which put the diff slightly too close to swing the tank up, never mind, we got it into the car anyhow, it just made getting the bolts done up which mount the tank to the frame a little tricky.. smile






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#86860 - 01/04/12 07:45 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795


Following a first fit we dropped out the frame and tank, put wood preserver onto the wooden board and drilled the holes for the mounting frame, we also cut to small additional tabs to help provide some additional structural support to the front edge of the tank, the frame is quite thin here and we wanted a bit more meat in the bracket.



Once in, we took a look at the space between the diff and the tank,



there was a moment of concern about the handbrake actuation leaver, which sticks out to the rear of the axle, this also needed to fit!! in the end, we modified the actuation leaver slightly and also found another piece of ali to act as an armour plate to attach to the tank just in case (don't want risk puncturing the tank for any reason).



I managed to pop down to a local professional hose attachment supplier to get some advice, help and fuel supply parts. Having evaluated the Goodridge ali attachments and PTE Vs. Rubber armoured hose, in the end I opted for steel attachments crimped onto rubber armoured piping. The Goodridge system uses a proprietary size hose and it's REALLY expensive as well the PTE piping (Goodridge or generic) does not really want to bend much so I'll see how I get on with the rubber option.



Swirl pot in situ.



With all this in place we had to call it a day, whilst it does not seem much to fit the amount of got-ya's we've had to navigate has been significant and has drained time like nobody's business.



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#86866 - 01/04/12 09:18 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
SimonH Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 23/02/10
Posts: 28
Phew! It fitted....

If anyone's interested- I took a series of photos as I was fabricating the tank- to show just what goes into making a Mulfab competition tank
Let me know if you'd like me to post them up

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#86868 - 01/04/12 09:34 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: SimonH]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Hey.... Would be great to see...

Add them into this thread and show what gets done!

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#86870 - 02/04/12 07:14 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1120
Loc: South Warwickshire
Simon H definitely post your photographs there will be lots of us interested in seeing what's involved in making one of these tanks.
_________________________
2011 Plus 4

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#86878 - 02/04/12 08:35 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Wirewheel]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Certainly will!
Curious how much weight saving there is over a steel tank too?

Andrew, the same applies as to building a kit car - allow at least three times the original estimated time (and cost!) laugh2

Seriously, looking good. Shame I won't be at the inaugural run at Ty Croes.

Cheers,
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#86934 - 02/04/12 03:42 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
Bodger Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 440
Loc: Switzerland
This thread is/was excellent reading and useful to me. I hate to think that it will soon end. A big thank you, Cerealsurfer!

Frank
_________________________
1967 4/4 1500 Comp.
1935 Super Sports Barrelback

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#87474 - 06/04/12 09:09 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Bodger]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Onto more work tomorrow... however, really exciting today, I went and picked up the new engine!!

It's not completely built up yet but it's looking really smart. smile




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#87808 - 09/04/12 10:39 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Easter Weekend - Marathon Update

So this weekend there is a lot to do.

  • Finish back axle assembly now the shims have arrived
  • Set up rear brakes
  • Basic first fit on engine
  • Test clutch
  • Engine Bay Fuel system
  • Engine Bay Cooling System
  • ECU & Dash sensor set installation


Axle
JB Engineering came up trumps with the axle shimms, their local engineer managed to whip up some shims at short notice. 2 x 1.7mm shimms for each side. Shipped overnight last week meant we could get onto this first thing. They worked a treat and we were able to box back together the rear axle and get the hubs re-assembled, brake drums etc.



The armour plating on the tank worked a treat and with a minor adjustment to the hand-brake bracket there is space for movement with minimal risk.



Basic Engine First Fit
OK so this could be complicated or not so complicated. Either way this was not going to be a simple job. On reflection it could have been a lot more complex.

So... first thing was to look at the engine mount situation ont the engine side, secondly we need to check the bell-housing dust plate for bolt pattern and coverage. We happened to have a 1.8cvh to Type 9 dust plate and on Thursday a quick re-direct on a Cornwall to High Wycombe journey via the Morgan Factory sorted a set of rare aluminium 1800 Zetec blacktop engine mounts.

So first up - checking the engine end.. the engine mount on the Off-Side was an easy fit straight on. just need to sort a set of bolts.



On the Near-Side things were going to be more complicated. The aluminium castings were missing one bolt hole and on the Back Top block there is a manufacturing tab which sticks out. Having thought about how to tackle this we decided to manufacture some custom spacers to hold the bracket in the right place. First up, drilling the final hole.



You can see the spacers in the picture below...



Once the upper brackets were mated to the engine the lower brackets need to be located into the engine bay and some way of connecting them together.



In the end we decided to re-use the new engine mounts we put on the car last year. however having lined the engine up in the engine bay at the correct height they were slightly too short. So I cut out 6 Aluminium spacers and put 2 on the bottom and 1 on the top to create the height required. Dad drilled and helicoiled the aluminium to make maximum use of the shape of the lower mounts and the existing holes already in them.




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#87809 - 09/04/12 10:41 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
They look really smart mounted into the car:





You can see their lateral alignment when looking up from underneath.



At the same time we used the 1.8cvh to Type 9 dust cover to check the mounts... it fitted fine with only minor adjustments needed, mainly due to the thickness of the Aluminium casting of the sump. Two minor tabs needed to be trimmed.



We did note however a small plate did need to be made to cover a moulding difference on the O/S of the block to bring it out to the bell-housing. You can just see the hole on the pic below.



Amaizingly this leaves us after one day with the engine mounted - all be it basically in the engine bay.





For a bit of a distraction, we decieded to make a new rear brake pipe. Once fitted this meant that we could bleed the brakes.



Not bad progress.

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#87810 - 09/04/12 10:58 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Time to sort out fueling in the engine bay....

Out comes the Twin 45's set-up from the old car. The PiperCross induction system is not going to work this time around, the rpm's this engine is likely to pull is, I suspect too much flow for this system and the spacing is wrong in the back plate.



As an alternative set-up I've decided to start with a full ITG Race Filter - interestingly the one I've gone for is from a Cosworth DFV F1 engine. It's not designed to be used on the road.

So down to stripping down the old set-up. First-up, taking the housing off.



Secondly, dismantling the intake manifold.



To re-assemble the carbs on the new manifold the central cast spar between the centre two intake tracts needed to be cut out to allow the throttle balance bar to rotate. Also the balance bar tab needed to be trimmed slightly as the central intakes are about 5mm closer together. In addition the new back plate blank needed to have all the holes cut out. Try cutting out 8 trumpet attachment holes, 4 x 51mm intake holes and 2 x 14mm breather intake holes all in the right place. Do I sound smug!! I should be, I managed to get them all in just the right place in one hit, no final fit adjustments needed. Trumpets installed, looking good.





We re-attached the throttle cable routing tag and trottle linkage. fully operational. Will need to get some 40mm chokes to replace the stock 38mm ones in the twin 45's at the moment.

All the wheels are now back on... for the first time in about 5 weeks.


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#87811 - 09/04/12 11:18 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Well that didn't last long...!

Front wheels off to drop the original radiator out. To do this I dropped out the steering rod.



The new radiator is for a +8, this is more handy due to the enhanced cooling I think we are going to need and also the location of the pipe spigots is more ideal.



After a series of installs and removals, adjustments of the car brackets and spacers on the top spindles, cleaning up the existing fan etc.. the new radiator in installed.



We wired in the fan switch as it's only a resistance fit and has been known to pop out under pressure. You can just see it in the bottom of the picture above.

The new tank install looks pretty smart.



You can just see the water rail return pipe from the thermostat housing just at the right of the picture below. The N/S radiator return pipe is almost ligned up just in front.



The final state of the engine bay.....



Now onto the fuel system at the back of the car. We cleaned up the fuel sender unit and adjusted the float to the correct height. A bit of a trim of the rubber gasket and the sender unit bolted in. A provisional location of the swirl tank was also tested, we needed to make a small tab extension to the mounting bracket so some measuring required.



After a lot more time, locating the lift pumps, attaching the swirl pot, bending the fuel lines and cleaning up the donor Volvo rotory fuel feed pump we are all finished for the weekend.... who needs a shed!



A few more sensors, samco water hoses and get the fuel lines cut and crimped those systems will be ready.

I was hoping to get the exhaust fabricated and jig made by Librands supplier, but time is running out and so I'm beginning to think about searching around for someone more locally. Simpsons is only just up the road and they are one of the best - if somewhat expensive (and it would be a one-off rather than a repeatable off-the-shelf unit).

The measurements are pretty big,

Headers 1" 7/8 - 28" Long (to 1st join)
Secondaries 2" 12" Long (from front of 1st join to front of 2nd join)
Outlet - 2" 1/2
Included angle of mergers no more than 18 Degrees

Getting there... still a lot to do though!!

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#87824 - 10/04/12 09:06 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Fantastic progress.

Waiting for next weekend's installment smile
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#87912 - 10/04/12 05:52 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
SimonH Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 23/02/10
Posts: 28
For the exhaust try Chris Tullett in Aylesbury
I know Matt Simpson well and Chris is on a par if not better, and in my experience a smidge cheaper

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#87917 - 10/04/12 06:05 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: SimonH]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: SimonH
For the exhaust try Chris Tullett in Aylesbury
I know Matt Simpson well and Chris is on a par if not better, and in my experience a smidge cheaper

Having rung around today, you can imagine not a lot of luck. I've tried Rob Wells over at Librands a few times.... But I'm guessing he's away.

In the end Hayward and Scott were able to re stack some work and fit me in. I was so thankful, I was getting worried this was going to be a challenge too far!

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#88509 - 15/04/12 06:44 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Another weekend and another update

So.. outstanding jobs to do

  • Source & Install alternator
  • Swap miss-labelled starter and install
  • Trim ignition leads and install
  • Final fit fuelling lines
  • Swap out the 36mm chokes for 40mm chokes
  • Remove old (RaceTech Coil) and re-wire for Ford Coil (they provide a replacement plug for this)
  • Sort out coolant pipes
  • Fabricate Idler pulley bracket and install idler


So first-up Fuel plumbing.
So you've seen the layout before, we decided to down-size the bore of the piping to keep the flow rate up. Using the connectors I had sourced we were also able to confirm routing and final combinations of ends. Having measured the routing we bagged up one pipe package at a time and popped down to the hose company and had them made up. You can see the result below. All we need to do now is use the switched feed (from the fuel toggle switch on the dash) to a local relay to power up the pumps. But it looks great. You can also just see we had to fabricate a fuel filler neck.. otherwise we would be hunting around for a pipe for ages.



Next up fabricating the idler pulley bracket.

I've looked at all the options on the market for this and seen most of them in situ on cars. All have pro's and con's. I'm a big fan of keeping the cam wheels & timing belt covered. After all you don't want a stone killing an expensive engine. You'd be pretty disappointed. Luckily on the CVH Perspex versions had been made and I managed to get my hands on one. For the Zetec E this has not been so easy. Possibly because on Ford installations the lower part of the pulley cover is actually the engine mount.

Anyhow, one school of design option uses one of the bolt holes just above the water pump to secure the pulley wheel in the correct position. Unfortunately this means you need to removed the cover - looks fancy - not very practical.

Second school of design uses the bolt holes on the engine mount to put a horizontal bracket across - advantage is you get to keep the cover on, down-side is that it bends and squeals like hell, even when re-enforced.

So our decision was to use the Raceline bolt mounted approach (school 1) and mount it on a bracket (but not how School 2 do). So we decided fabricate a bracket which uses several spare threaded bolt holes already on the engine using 5mm steel. Having come up with the design I popped up to the local Forge (yes we have a old-school village forge locally to us) who do heavy custom engineering jobs (like make beacon tower tops from the old Armada warning system). Anyhow.. they are a local metal supplier and they've been friends of the family for ages.

So whilst I was up there getting some steel lengths I saw their friction saw (this place is full of serious metal tools). Given the friction saw blade is about 8mm thick and about 50cm diameter I though you'd find this funny... it clearly takes some getting going.



Once back after some work we came up with the following... I don't think this is going to bend. Look top left of the engine.





I don't have a photo of the Alternator install.. in the end I used a Raceline Alternator mount and a Brise Mitsubishi small form factor Alternator (which self disengages) designed for a BDA with an 80mm lightweight Aluminium pulley to gear it down. I suspected that the top mount could be a problem as I'd read about install problems on the net.. the recommended Alternator from Raceline is just too big for a Morgan.

In the end, the bottom mounts were ok and the unit was perfect in size. The top adjuster bracket from the kit was a waste of time though.. luckily we have a load of old arced adjusters from old Alternator installs which fitted perfectly as they have a dog leg in them. Sorted.

It looks a really smart install.. just need to run the wiring from the N/S to the O/S to get it connected.

Whilst on this side of the car I also whipped the carbs apart to put the larger chokes in.

Another faf was the ignition leads, these were from Retro Ford. As the cam cover is new it clearly needs special lead ends to seal the holes... so I picked up a set of 8mm race leads in blue. As Retro Ford specialise in old-school conversions their leads are designed to be run down through the inlet manifold 2 leads between 1&2 and 2 leads between 3&4. This means you hide the coil under the inlet manifold ala BDA. On this departure from the stated strategy, I wanted to keep the coil on the back of the engine, where Morgan as Morgan have a recess in the bulkhead here and it's easy to access for maintenance. We have the ITG filter to contend with every time if we put it under the manifold. So this meant I had a bunch of Ignition Leeds all the same length for a variable length install... well that looked rubbish. So having borrowed a set of Lead fabrication crimpers (these things are seriously expensive) I took apart 3 of the leads, shortened them and re-assembled them shorter to make a uniform curve onto the coil.. much better.



The last job of the day was fitting the starter... again this was a time consuming job... just bolt in.. nope.!

As the raceline starter we had been supplied was wrong last week.... Right part number on box and on sealed packet which the starter was in.. but wrong part in the bag! We could not check the starter hole in the dust plate. Dag-nam-it... it would be slightly different... if we'd used the other dust plate we had it would have been a no-brainer to get in.. but as it was we were be-jiggered if we were going to drop the engine out of the way to swap it.. in the end we used a special air powered needle nose band sander to enlarge the hole. We also ended up "adjusting" the sump slightly to get clearance in all the right places.. you can see how close it is - and this is a small form factor geared down starter!



Unfortunately I have not been able to work on it today, but dad's sorting out the coolant system, the fuel & Alternator electrics and the coil harness. Unfortunately the Oil pressure sensor and the Oil temp sensor had not arrived Friday so these will go on next week. On Sat I need to take it to get it's manifold made. smile

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#88574 - 16/04/12 07:51 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1120
Loc: South Warwickshire
Apart from the time element, modifications that you are having to make challenge your engineering skills and inventive thought processes. Great stuff.
_________________________
2011 Plus 4

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#89285 - 21/04/12 09:50 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Wirewheel]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Nearly there!!!

So this week has been a week of clearing off the smaller jobs.


  • Plumbing in the cooling system
  • Testing the fan operation
  • Extending the Alternator loom and wiring it in
  • Drilling, tapping and installing the Oil Temp sensor plus wiring in
  • Installing the Oil Pressure sensor
  • Wiring in the Coolant Sensor
  • Fitting Oil Filter & Filling with Oil (Calibrating dip-stick)
  • Filling with Coolant
  • Filling some fuel, Calibrating the manual tank dip-stick, testing the fuel gague in cockpit, testing plumbing, completing electrics for pumps
  • Re-fitting seats


Coolant System
We use a combination of Samco hoses to make the shapes requried to plumb in the coolant system, in the end this was a combination of 90 Degree bends with joiners. This made the closest OEM looking solution. We tested the over-ride switch and and bridged out the otter fan switch and the fan runs fine both times. Looks like the coolant system is all complete.



Fuel System
We ran a heavy duty feed to the rear of the car and decided to use the existing dash mounted switch to power up some relays to act as a local switch for the 3 pumps. We filled the tank one gallon at a time and notched the tank dip-stick each time. This will give a way of accurately managing fuel level given the usual challenges of the Morgan OEM fuel gauge. That said, the fuel sender and the gauge is working fine. Having plumbed and wired everything in we flipped the switch to prime the swirl pot... sorted.. step one completed. Step two, testing the Volvo main pump... well... let's just say it was a little over-powering. The main pump blew the fuel filter apart!! So in the end we reverted to a high flow Facet unit and mounted it recessed where the Volvo unit would have been.. So now.. it's all working.



General Wiring
The alternator wiring was extended from the N/S to the O/S and using the Brise instructions the loom adaptor they provide was spliced together, which means we also now get a battery light on the dash. The horn had to move slightly to the front side of the cross head. We knew the alternator may need some spacing once we had a suitable 5 groove belt and having turned it by hand we found that a slight miss-alignment meant the belt wound itself off. So with an extra washer on the alternator it stayed on ok.. so all set on that front.
The other wiring that needed sorting was the ECU and Telemetary sensors. The Oil Temp (important for racing), Oil Pressure (variable, not 7psi switch) and Coolant Temp. So Friday night we spent most of the night soldering these and splicing them into the relevant looms. Dash, DL1 and Omex.

Next Steps
This morning I trailered the car round to Hayward and Scott to get the exhaust fabricated. There were some other interesting cars already getting sorted out. Anyhow, this week will see the exhaust manifold and side exit system fitted. Which leaves getting the ECU set-up next Monday.

This is handy as the TyCroes final race regs came out today.... We're number 20 and 201.




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#89328 - 22/04/12 06:42 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Gambalunga Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 2069
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Originally Posted By: cerealsurfer
This is handy as the TyCroes final race regs came out today.... We're number 20 and 201.

Was that luck or was it planed that way? I assume all you have to do is stick on or pull off the "1" depending on which of you is piloting.

I think that following this saga means that I am going to have to come and watch you race at least once. Thank goodnees for low cost flights smile
_________________________
Peter
Plus 4, Sport White (Ivory) Mulberry trim

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#89330 - 22/04/12 07:09 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Gambalunga]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: Gambalunga
Originally Posted By: cerealsurfer
This is handy as the TyCroes final race regs came out today.... We're number 20 and 201.

Was that luck or was it planed that way? I assume all you have to do is stick on or pull off the "1" depending on which of you is piloting.

I think that following this saga means that I am going to have to come and watch you race at least once. Thank goodnees for low cost flights smile

Well hey.. that's really flattering.

Double drives usually have the extra number added to make ID easy. We tape over the extra number in the driver change-over area.

As for the season.. if you do decide you fancy coming over. Probably the best spectator experiences are at either Goodwood on the 4th August, Curborough 2nd Sept or Castle Combe on the 27th October.


  • Goodwood will have sun (fingers crossed), a wide selection of entries and good facilities an plenty of places to stay.
  • Curborough is the MSCC Club Sprint, there will be only Morgans there (probably about 40), you can see the whole track, although not many places to stay locally.
  • Castle Combe will probably have the season decider race and has good viewing facilities - it's been dry over the last 4 years but not necessarily warm, sunny or easy to get to.


If you do decide to pop over, message me and we'll make sure you are welcomed.

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#89342 - 22/04/12 09:21 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Jays Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 3335
Loc: worcestershire UK
Peter...I'll probably go to Curborough to spectate. Cheap flight to Birmingham and I'll put you up.
_________________________
Jay

2010 4/4 "Super Sport "

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#90244 - 28/04/12 08:49 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Jays]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Coming into the home straight..

We only have 1 week to go before race day...!!

Luckily we only have a few things to get done and they are all scheduled.

Exhaust

This weekend I picked up the car from Hayward & Scott. The exhaust is absolutely mad!! smile Today we started sorting out some strategically placed heat shields to protect some of the electrics. It seems a shame to put heat wrap round these but I suspect they'll end up getting wrapped when I get a chance to sort out getting the wrap.





The collectors have been made to spec and look great. The hole in the inner wing has had to be enlarged to get the primaries through. They then run smoothly under the wing. To the first of two silencers, first one before the mounting bracket and the second, much larger one after.







Dash buttons
The Race Technology Dash 2 has a number of screens that you can navigate through, in order to navigate these screens there are optional buttons. I've decided to access these extended features and sorted out the buttons. Missprint spent some time today sorting out the layout and getting them sorted. I thought it was a great job, nice design.



Wheel holder
We noticed that the way we were attaching the spare wheels to our trailer last year was rubbing off the powder coating. This year as shown earlier in this thread I'm running almost semi slicks which don't do so well in the wet. So this year I've decided to put last seasons Toyo T1R's on the spare set of Minilites I have and use them as wet's.
I'm going to get the burgundy wheels powder coated blue, just not in time for this weekend. Anyhow, the net result is that we need a more suitable way to transport but protect the wheels. So using a sewing machine we purchased from F H Douglas when he shut down. We made a custom cover... hopefully this will help.


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#90494 - 30/04/12 05:23 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
GerryWal Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 11/09/11
Posts: 487
Loc: East Herts
A really great thread you've created, Cereal, charting the transformation of your car. Best of luck in the first competitive outing- do keep us up to date with the result and also with the rest of your calendar- I'd like to see the car in action. Gerry.

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#90501 - 30/04/12 05:49 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: GerryWal]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Thanks guys.... Just had the news hot off the press.

230bhp @ 8000 rpm and 160 lbft torque across most of the rev range.
223bhp with the standard bonnet on

Power is being constrained by being delivered 40mm trumpets not 45mm. That will get sorted shortly!

Expect to see 230-240 once these and the bonnet scoop is sorted.

Pics and graph to follow once I get them from dad.

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#90509 - 30/04/12 06:39 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
GerryWal Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 11/09/11
Posts: 487
Loc: East Herts
Wow! another 100 horses up on last year! Gerry.

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#90517 - 30/04/12 07:23 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: GerryWal]
Guten Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 18/02/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Lincolnshire
Great, can we listen/watch?
_________________________
Simon

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#90528 - 30/04/12 08:17 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Guten]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 10 - Engine set-up


So today dad took the car upto Northampton Motorsport to get the Omex ECU and carbs set-up.

First off - strapping the car onto the rolling road.



Next getting the fans set-up, sorting out the jets and loading up a stock zetec timing map. Would it start first time???

Well it started, it was on the rolling road for ages getting run in and set-up. We learned a few things eg, the rubber bushes on the alternator gave up due to the heat, we had some ali ones machined whilst we were there. The ECU won't talk to the dash system quite the way we wanted and the sample rate on the dash system is currently set too high.. so the numbers change too quickly.. though I can program that out easily.





The pipes blued nicely, the manifolds near the cylinderhead were glowing at one point. They look great!!





So it looks like I have some electrics to sort out, wiring the RPM sensor into the DL1 to get it integrated into the dash system. Also tune down the sampling frequency of the Oil pressure and temp sensors.

Net result is:

230bhp @ 8000 rpm
165lbft from 3000-7000

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#90531 - 30/04/12 08:40 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Aeroman Offline
Lord Trois-Roues
Charter Member

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 5739
Loc: In transit...
Great thread Andrew and superb looking car. Good luck to you both for the racing season. flag

Best wishes
Brian
_________________________
Reality is an illusion that occurs due to a lack of wine wine

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#90558 - 30/04/12 10:55 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Aeroman]
Vampirex Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 16/08/09
Posts: 137
Loc: Normandy, France
Hi,
Very interesting thread, I follow every week with great interest. It remember me when I did this kind of job by the beginning of the seventy's, with an Alpine A110. This is a big and ambitious project and you made a really great job.
I wish you will have the right weapon to compete for your new season.
I don't tell you "good luck" because here in France we never say that, to be sure all will be right for you.
BR.
Daniel.

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#90616 - 01/05/12 12:02 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Vampirex]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 11

Quick update to give you the Power Graphs and the Weights. Not sure if it was in racing trim... i'll calculate the actuals and let you all know.




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#90621 - 01/05/12 01:37 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
GerryWal Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 11/09/11
Posts: 487
Loc: East Herts
Very interesting- you must be well pleased with the result of all your hard work. Why does the power drop like a stone after 8,000 revs? Is it a rev limiter cutting in?
Gerry.

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#90622 - 01/05/12 01:46 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: GerryWal]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Yes... at the moment as the engine is fresh, we have put the rev limiter at 8000. In addition the smaller trumpets cause the curve to level off as you can see.

I have a set of ITG fully radiused 45mm ram pipes arriving tomorrow which should help keep power up with the bonnet down.

After the first season we are likely to up the limit to 8500 or 9000 to get the benefit of the continued climb.

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#90649 - 01/05/12 04:10 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: GerryWal]
Guten Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 18/02/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Lincolnshire
I'd like to have heard it at 8000!
_________________________
Simon

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#91069 - 03/05/12 10:22 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Guten]
NMS Offline
New to Talk Morgan

Registered: 02/05/12
Posts: 1
Good Luck for the weekend guys.

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#91070 - 03/05/12 11:31 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: NMS]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Thanks Guys!!

I'm making a vid blog of the weekend... Not sure what it will come out like.. But keep your eyes peeled.

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#91077 - 04/05/12 06:17 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Robbie Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 1318
Loc: Co Wexford, Ireland
Best of luck to you both!
_________________________
Robbie
Plus4 Aston Martin Mendip Blue
09-WX-2269

"Lord Plus Faw of Kilgibbon"

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#91088 - 04/05/12 07:12 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Robbie]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1120
Loc: South Warwickshire
Originally Posted By: Robbie
Best of luck to you both!


+1
_________________________
2011 Plus 4

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#91097 - 04/05/12 07:38 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Wirewheel]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Shame I won't be amongst the spectators...

Good luck!
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#91555 - 07/05/12 06:32 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 12 - TyCroes Double Header Weekend

So... we packed up our race car onto the trailer and we had also hired a camper for the weekend to give some shelter. TyCroes is an excellent track with great, clean facilities but there is little local accomodation and we didn't want the nause of having to pack everything up leave and come back.

Friday we set off in a slow moving convoy on the 5 hour journey upto TyCroes North West Wales. It ended up taking 7 hours pretty much due to accidents on the M56 and severe concestion. Luckily the sat nav warned us of this and we were able to take diversions, unfortunately the local "A" roads arn't exactly quick... but better to make progress than sit in traffic!!!

Once we arrived we saw where the general cluster of campers were, Simon Baines was already there whith his roadster and camper all ready set-up. Luckily we had put in an extra camping power extension lead which meant we were able to get our own spot without having to be too on-top of the others.

Having sorted out the camper, Missprint too the opportunity to drive the car around the paddock, getting used to the clutch take-up and bite point. We also found that the starter button was a little sticky, which needed sorting as it was causing the starter to stay engaged - a little lube sorted that out and it sounded great.

Unfortunately the 10pm circuit restraunt close as advertised on the regs was round to be an error, as we rolled in @ 9:15 and were told they shut at 9pm. Luckily we had packed some pizza's and the camper had a suitable grill smile

Saturday morning saw us get registered and looking forward to using the car in anger, the format of the day was to be a single 2 lap practice of the National Circuit followed by timed laps from mid morning.

For us TyCroes was to be a combined shake-down and systems test. We'd been cleared to run the engine at full race power having had tne engine builder run it in for us. So were keen to track the Engine Temp, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp to make sure the cooling systems etc. were all up to the task.

Luckily the weather was kind.. tbh... all weekend. Sat was windy cold but dry and sunny where as Sunday was no wind, sunny, warmer but with very occasional minor light showers... nothing to worry about though.

First practice saw Missprint and I experement with the launch engine speed.... we both dialied up somewhere around 4000-4500 and dump the clutch, from our limited runs around the gariage and paddock we knew how easy it is to stall.....! Anyhow, Missprint off first lit up the tyres and leveraging the max from the LSD gracefully power slided the car off the startline and onto the main track... ($41T it's fast!).. Having had Missprint disapear and then a few nerve wracking moments re-appear from the top of the National circuit she re-entered the pits with a massive (and I mean MASSIVE) grin on her face!! She loved the package and attested it was hugely powerfull but very easy to drive especially throwing it about on the limit and bieng able to play with the power to drive the car through the corners. You can imagine I was keen to have a go...... Having completed my run, I can certainly attest that it's FANTASTIC... it's a bit like driving an Aero flat out.. but without the weight smile very attractive - much to the nervous faces of the rest of the Morgan racers.

Following a check of the mechanicals and temps etc. back at the paddock we were quite happy that the overall package was working great.

Out for timed runs, Missprint and I were keen to see what the little car could do... having found confidence in the car on the inital run, we sighted our braking points and turn-in's, we decided to see if we could get things smooth and ride the power round the track. Things could not have gone better, Missprint and I rung up two further times on the board.... Missprint posting a time 2 seconds off target and I was just over 2 seconds under already.. it does not get much better. Simon Baines in the roadster had done the sums, on scratch, taking into consideration his 3.5% penalty for 1B racing tyres Vs. our 1a road tyres, I was ahead... I could be giving his Roadster LW a run for it's money, regardless of handicap. smile

Unfortunately (and this is where the story turns a little sad)... on my last run just as I was coming around the final bend to cross the finishing line, it looked to the crowd like I'd locked up the front tyres... unfortunately the smoke got worse....... and worse...... until I crossed the line slightly sideways having slid in my own oil...

Huston... we had a problem.!!

I flicked the kill switch and coasted down the grass and into the pits...

Prognosis... catastropic failure of Piston 1!! munched valves and terminal damage to the cylinder head... our weekend was over. Good news is however, my pre lunch time was quick enough to win the Sat race.. a bit like a goal from the 1/2 way line. On Sunday we ran the scoring admin and headed off for an early shower... today I've whipped the engine out so the engine builder can do an investigation tomorrow... I'm not holding out much hope.

This is what the carb should look like



The shavings you can see in this picture are bits of piston that have been expelled back through the carbs.



There was also a bit of coolant mixed... which means the coolant system has been compromised in the head.



Taking the engine out today, you can see some of the damage in Cylinder 1 inlet - the valve stem is bent.



In the exhaust port things are a little more serious.. they valve heads are snapped off and completely destroyed.



Not a happy day in the end frown

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#91556 - 07/05/12 06:39 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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B*gger!
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#91560 - 07/05/12 06:50 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
John +4 Offline
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Registered: 21/07/07
Posts: 2788
Loc: Bucks
Not good news but if it is that fast then better luck next time.

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#91561 - 07/05/12 06:55 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
Wirewheel Offline
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+1, what can I say.
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#91562 - 07/05/12 07:02 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
SpeedMog Offline
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Originally Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ
B*gger!

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#91574 - 07/05/12 08:38 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: SpeedMog]
Jim Mountain Offline
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Registered: 24/03/08
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Loc: Chesham Bucks
expensive !!!!

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#91586 - 07/05/12 09:39 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Jim Mountain]
cerealsurfer Offline
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Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
All of the above... we wait to see what tomorrow brings...

It does however show the potential of the car and we are resolved to get it working again.

Down side is that with all the cancellations of races this season and other conflicts, it does put our season into jeopardy. We'll be working out what's possible now and how best to take on the championship with what's left of the season outstanding.

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#91588 - 07/05/12 10:12 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Heinz Offline
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Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 420
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Hi Cerealsurfer

I wish you and your team most success and all the best. I like it very much to follow the posted developments she gets. It is very enjoyable and entertaining to read your posts regarding the proceedings of her. You are a real no compromise intensively focused - very competent - aficionado. And you are a windfall to enrich this forum.

Take on, this engine issue is something you and your team will cope to see a positive future.

Heinz

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#91592 - 08/05/12 04:26 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Heinz]
robmog88 Offline
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Registered: 21/05/07
Posts: 136
Loc: sutton coldfield, west midland...
having seen Cerealsurfer and missprint at Curboro a couple of times,from the startline marshalls point of view, I have found this thread fascinating reading. keep persevering, hope the engine rebuild isn't too harmful to bank balance or seasons prospects.
good luck.

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#91596 - 08/05/12 05:09 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: robmog88]
Richard - Aus Offline
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When you win, and I am sure you will (you only get out what you put in) this will look like a minor set back.

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#91648 - 08/05/12 03:25 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Richard - Aus]
Bodger Offline
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I know how you feel, cerealsurfer. In my case apart from the crankshaft and surprisingly the cylinderhead nothing was reusable - not even the engine block. There are still 3 lonely bespoke Mahle pistons on my shelf...

Frank
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#91689 - 08/05/12 07:56 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Bodger]
cerealsurfer Offline
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Looks like we have a way forward, a temp install whilst a replacement engine is built.

We should be back out on the track ready for the race at MIRA on the 26th May. smile

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#91690 - 08/05/12 07:58 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
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Thanks for all your support guys!!

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#91702 - 08/05/12 08:32 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
GerryWal Offline
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Registered: 11/09/11
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Loc: East Herts
Well done, Cereal, wishing you and Missprint all the best at MIRA. Gerry.

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#91703 - 08/05/12 08:36 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
asbojohn Online   content
le Asbo du Bling
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Registered: 23/07/07
Posts: 2583
Loc: Cambridgeshire
Originally Posted By: cerealsurfer
Looks like we have a way forward, a temp install whilst a replacement engine is built.

We should be back out on the track ready for the race at MIRA on the 26th May. smile


Your not cheating and fitting a stonking V8 while no ones looking are you wink

Hope it gets sorted quickly. Have they found the cause?


Edited by asbojohn (08/05/12 08:36 PM)
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#91707 - 08/05/12 08:42 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: asbojohn]
cerealsurfer Offline
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Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: asbojohn
Originally Posted By: cerealsurfer
Looks like we have a way forward, a temp install whilst a replacement engine is built.

We should be back out on the track ready for the race at MIRA on the 26th May. smile


Your not cheating and fitting a stonking V8 while no ones looking are you wink

Hope it gets sorted quickly. Have they found the cause?


It's ongoing but it looks like material failure.

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#91708 - 08/05/12 08:52 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
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Here are some pictures from the weekend...

Plenty of Morgans in the paddock for Saturday.



This weekend there was going to be 3 cars in our class (Class 7 - upto 2000cc Modified 4/4) including another freshly finished car a Rutherford Lightweight with a Zetec E with variable cam on a Magajolt ECU.



We set-up our paddock tent and made ourselves at home.. just in case of the rain.

It was interesting getting used to the clutch when launching, the wheelspin was very smooth - as it looks. Missprint was up first.





Morgans take over parc ferme....



Next up.. my turn...



For the rest of the weekend, there was still fun to be had sorting out the times... well someone has to do it!!


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#91741 - 09/05/12 07:05 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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Registered: 03/07/07
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Good, sounds like you have an inkling of the failure. Are you building a complete new motor?
What's the temporary fix? Inquiring minds and all that!! smile
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B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
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#92167 - 12/05/12 03:39 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
cerealsurfer Offline
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Update 13 - Findings and What's next?

Our engine builder partner has stripped the engine to investigate what happened, as the engine by all the data we have was operating within limits. It looks like there was a miss casting of the No.1 piston which caused it to fragment and cause cascading and terminal damage to the block, cylinder head and No. 1 rod. Interestingly it looks like this was very progressive and could have begun before the weekend even started.

So.. what next.

Luckily we have a close relationship with our engine builder... having notched up a win even though we missed half of a days racing he's keen to get us back out winning with one of his engines in the car.... so...

He's going to supply an interim engine, a stock Zetec with minimal modifications such as cams. I'll take the car up with dad and fit this into the car on Sat next week and he'll set-up the ECU in the afternoon. That will get us back out racing in time for MIRA.

In the mean time, he's already started sourcing all the parts required to build a completely new engine, as you might expect we will be using a higher quality piston manufacturer.

At the mid season point when the new engine is ready we'll swap out the two and come back with the new one. All the while we will be sticking with Class 7 and as we are using a new block, we don't have to worry about a re-bore taking us into Class 9.

I have to say Northampton Motorsport have been very professional and if nothing else this has increased the ties between the two of our respective companies. You can expect more joint projects in the future.

Troy's put what's left of No. 1 piston and the two snapped off valve heads to one side. I'm going to get them cast into glass to make a reminder paperweight!!

He's also taken some pictures, if I can I'll post some when I get them through.

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#92206 - 12/05/12 08:55 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Gambalunga Offline
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Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 2069
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Forged pistons are not available?
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Plus 4, Sport White (Ivory) Mulberry trim

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#92210 - 12/05/12 09:49 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Gambalunga]
cerealsurfer Offline
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Registered: 09/10/06
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Sorry... Speedy typing on my part there... the Wossner pistons are forged... Hopefully we won't be running into he same problem next time... !!



Edited by cerealsurfer (12/05/12 10:53 PM)

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#92224 - 13/05/12 07:10 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Gambalunga Offline
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Posts: 2069
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
I have no idea of common practice in building race engines at this level but given the cost of such disasters is xray checking of rods and pistons an option?
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Plus 4, Sport White (Ivory) Mulberry trim

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#92232 - 13/05/12 10:00 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Gambalunga]
cerealsurfer Offline
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Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: Gambalunga
I have no idea of common practice in building race engines at this level but given the cost of such disasters is xray checking of rods and pistons an option?

Could be.. though you wouldn't expect necessarily to have to do this when using a well known manufacturer. Accidents happen and we're moving forward looking for the positives. You can imagine it also gives us an opportunity to look for more power in the next build smile

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#92277 - 13/05/12 06:45 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Moss Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 706
Loc: Co Down
Quote cerealsurfer - ***Could be.. though you wouldn't expect necessarily to have to do this when using a well known manufacturer. Accidents happen and we're moving forward looking for the positives. You can imagine it also gives us an opportunity to look for more power in the next build ****

True Champion thumbs
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#92986 - 20/05/12 12:23 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Moss]
cerealsurfer Offline
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Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 14 - Interim Engine Installation smile

So Troy from Northampton Motorsport has managed to get hold of a new Blacktop Zetec and a set of cams from Piper. The RWD packaging items have been stripped off the old engine and the call was made it's ready to drop into the car.

When dad and I took the damaged engine out we packaged up all the anciliaries and boxed them up. So having sorted out how to get back out racing for MIRA we decided to take everything up to NHM and put the engine in there borrowing a lift slot for the morning. We have then left the car there to be set-up and collect it in the week or on the way to MIRA on Saturday. It was great to experience another workshop and the different types of vehicles coming and going.. lots of 7 type cars!



You can just see another TM members Westfield FW400 having it's refresh in the background. It was just in the process of getting it's alignment sorted.

With the Zetec set-up we have found it easiest to put the engine in from underneath rather than from ontop.. therefore special tool No.1 (bottle crate on rolling platform) is required.



It's a tidy package and it's now just waiting to get set-up and run-in on the rolling road.



This package is interesting to us as it's a bog standard Zetec with the only modification being a set of piper cams and ARP rod bolts. In terms of the overall Morgan Engine packages, we are thinking this will give an option of testing and setting up an interim type package.

We are now curious to see what it puts out!?

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#93021 - 21/05/12 06:24 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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Registered: 03/07/07
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Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Originally Posted By: cerealsurfer
We are now curious to see what it puts out!?


You and I suspect lots of others! smile

I will await the report from MIRA... thumbs
_________________________
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B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
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#93734 - 27/05/12 08:41 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
cerealsurfer Offline
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Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 15 - Set-up and Race

Set-up
Having dropped the engine in to the car, we left it with NorthHamptonMotorsport to get set-up. We agreed if we get a chance we would pick it up late last week or worst case very early in the morning Saturday morning on the way to MIRA!!

Anyhow, Friday rolled around and we were contacted that it was ready to collect and so Missprint and Oldtimers went to collect it. (boy we were relieved that it was ready!!).

This time around the Stock Black-top Zetec with only ARP rod bolts (though RPM max is kept to 7500rpm) and Piper cams. 184bhp we thought was pretty good.



So back to the workshop and some pre-race checks, the dash system has been working great - this has been the best upgrade we ever purchased!!

Race

MIRA does not allow camera so no pics I'm afraid. It was an exceptionally hot day, we were keen to see how the engine would perform in the heat, we were keen to see if the water and oil temps could be be kept safe without an oil cooler. We're not keen to fit an additional oil cooler but if pushed we can go to an Oil/Water oil cooler placed within the engine bay rather than an air/oil cooler - as we have seen MANY damaged in racing.

Well the 30 Degree heat meant the paddock tent had to be put up from late morning. Everyone, even with sunscreen was just getting cooked. The heat though combined with the Dunlop handeling super grip surface means great grip. Downside is that those with Khumo softs were in real danger of turning into toffee... the Westfields with slicks only had 5 runs in them, having stated the tyres were just trashed. Luckily for them, the day only fitted 5 runs in anyhow. Looks like the soft end of the 1A tyres were going to be the way to go. Our Yokohama Advan AD08's have been a great choice. We've put our scrubbed Toyo T1R's onto, now powder coated blue spare minilites as wets.

Our car hung together great, a quick adjustment of the clutch after the first run we were all set to give it some beans. Not too bad for a car we only picked up the day before. We were also close to our handicap, so there was some potential.

Later runs proved we could shave off time, close runners were John Stephens and Chris Bailey so no room to let off....

Missprint and I kept plugging away shaving off time as we went.... the result was just what we were looking for. I managed to eclipse the class record securing the victory with Anne only a second or so behind... securing 4th place behind Chris and John. Not too shabby at all.

That was with a pretty stock Engine, just think of the possibilities with the higher power full race unit... well we'll be back onto that probably by Goodwood later in the season. The pistons are currently getting custom made to our spec.

Getting back to the fancy dash and telemetary system, we have been using it now for 4 years. I've overlayed the 2009, 2011 and 2012 and you can see the difference. The biggest change you can see is that at the end of the back sweeping curve going into the switch back in the centre of the track I'm going from 87mhp in 2009 to 104mph now... that's only 100m before a sharp right-hander where we pull 1.2-1.3 latteral g through the corner!


Each year, the speeds going up, corner speeds pretty much the same and very consistant between years. These were the fastest runs of each year, but it's very handy to use the info to get the consistancy from the start. It would be great to compare to other drivers at some point.



Results

So at MIRA the provisional results for Missprint and I are as follows. Missprint - 4th with 7 points and Myself 1st with 11 points having set a new lap record.

So points so far on the board

Cerealsurfer
TyCroes National - 1st - New lap record - 10+1 points
MIRA - 1st - New lap record - 10+1 points

Missprint
TyCroes National - 4th - 4points
MIRA - 4th - 7 points

Next race Aintree in a few weeks....

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#93760 - 27/05/12 02:56 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Wirewheel Offline
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Loc: South Warwickshire
Great write and results from you both. Well done.
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#93765 - 27/05/12 04:01 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Wirewheel]
Gambalunga Offline
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Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 2069
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Congratulations !!!!
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Plus 4, Sport White (Ivory) Mulberry trim

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#93913 - 29/05/12 07:30 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Gambalunga]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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Registered: 03/07/07
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Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Excellent, thanks for sharing those graphs too. Impressive output from a little modified powerplant.

The ever quicker times are outstanding - now almost drooling waiting to see the race engine in action! smile
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Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
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#97264 - 03/07/12 10:14 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
cerealsurfer Offline
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Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 16 - Aintree

So on Saturday we were off to another new race venue... the reduction in races this year has left us travelling a little further afield than we are usually used to.



So on Friday we headed off to Aintree with the little car in tow. We are still running the interim engine and it was going to be a tough meeting as the entry field with 14 Morgans running with a couple of drivers with the home track advantage. One interesting competitor who was going to be there is Tim Harison with his 4/4 Special the 2.3 Duratec Cosworth lightweight. Whilst he is competing in Class 10 with the Roadster lightweights with nearly 300bhp on tap running somewhere around 750kg.. it's a serious piece of tasty kit.

Anyhow... luckily the day started dry and sunny...all be it with a blustry wind. We were later to find out how much the wind was to affect the times, causing noticable reductions in VMax on the back straight.

Unfortunately in practice there was an off in the Morgan camp, luckily the driver was fine but the car needed to be collected by the recovery crew to get it back to the paddock. frown

As the day progressed, it went from sunny and dry to absolutely torrential rain... we watched from the paddock tent as the single seaters and little Austin drivers got absolutely soaked.... the race meet was paused whilst the worst of the rain passed over.

We chipped away at our times along with the rest of the field heading towards the target.... as the weather cell swirled above the wind swung round, denting the runners VMax by 3-5mph on the back straigt through the speed trap before the finish line.

We are continually impressed with the engine dynamic and our only wish was to have the extra 1500 rpm to play with of the full race unit. The depression in the track at the back end of Bechars Bend being just at max rpm of 3rd when you really want to be able to snatch 4th.

In the closing run of the day, the wind and broken sun had dried the track with all runners chopping significant time off their previous runs... Missprint and I managed to get under the target time.. with another runner splitting us on his final run.

So in the final standings - Missprint came third with an extra point for getting under target and I came 1st with another 11 points in the bag.





Since the weenkend I've been in touch with Northampton Motorsport and the Cylinderhead has been machined and the we are only waiting for the valves to arrive from Supertech in the US for the engine build to commence.

We're hoping to get the full race engine in before Goodwood, but depending on exact timing of holidays and component delivery it may have to wait until Curborough.

For now the car is packed away as we are off to Assen in my sisters +4 .....

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#97273 - 04/07/12 06:22 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Trent Offline
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Registered: 29/09/06
Posts: 846
Loc: Northants
Congratulations on both of your results. Enjoying this topic.

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#97281 - 04/07/12 07:47 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Trent]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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Excellent! Well done both of you thumbs

I've seen the photo of our man's off - didn't realise it happened in practice. Guess that's another rebuild down at Semley...

Will see you at Curborough (my usual role), if not before.

Cheers,
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#97291 - 04/07/12 09:17 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
A11OGE Offline
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Registered: 14/05/07
Posts: 2403
Loc: Reading
Originally Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

I've seen the photo of our man's off - didn't realise it happened in practice. Guess that's another rebuild down at Semley..


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'A Morgan is for life, not just for Sundays'

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#97293 - 04/07/12 09:28 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Trent]
Wirewheel Offline
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Registered: 22/07/11
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Loc: South Warwickshire
Originally Posted By: Trent
Congratulations on both of your results. Enjoying this topic.


+1
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2011 Plus 4

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#97367 - 05/07/12 08:37 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: A11OGE]
SpeedMog Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 1694
Loc: Northwich, Cheshire
Originally Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

I've seen the photo of our man's off - didn't realise it happened in practice. Guess that's another rebuild down at Semley..

That's buggered my return dual drive at Curborough then.. ooo
_________________________
Phil Egginton

"Think very carefully… because if you ever start, you will never leave it alone"

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#97402 - 05/07/12 07:01 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: SpeedMog]
Paul F Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 20/08/10
Posts: 32
Loc: Costock, UK
That 4 point harness has earns it's keep.
_________________________
Paul

Costock, UK
1985 4/4
Disco 3

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#100509 - 07/08/12 09:18 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 17 - Racing at Goodwood



We were hoping to get the Race Engine back in the car for this event but we are waiting for some final parts to arrive. The rest is sorted, initial build complete and final build underway, the install date has now been set.

So we were still racing with the interim engine, which tbh is proving to be quite competitive in it's own right.

The rain was torrential on the way down - Goodwood is not great to drive in the wet and it was Bad - Very Bad. One of our crew came down in his 4/4 and we were quite concerned by the shear volume of water on the road - literally rivers both sides and crossing the road on the hills. Luckily the rain stopped as we pulled in to the pits and fortunately the day dried up and in the end was nice and sunny - shorts weather.

There were a couple of adventures in the pits, helping out other competitors - as it happens in our class as well, a broken alternator bracket on one car causing the water pump belt to come off.. so no racing until that was sorted and the second being a snapped throttle cable - luckily we carry a spare so were once again able to get things going.

Due to an incident earlier in the year Goodwood sprints now start at the exit to the pit lane rather than 4 abreast across the track.. this has the net result of shortening the track and rubbishing out existing target times. So no extra point available... and afternoon times would be based on morning practice.

During the morning practice, we continued to struggle with the launch on this Engine, 1st Ratio - Fly/clutch combo. Without the Raw power of the Race engine, it's a fine line between the perfect catapult launch and bogging down. We also found that we were getting round the track "A LOT" faster than last year, Goodwood is a quick track on any day, however the approach speeds into the corners were a lot higher.

Over lunch, target times were calculated and set.

In the afternoon, all times came tumbling down, Missprint having a particularly close race with another Class 7 competitor Paul Bryan. Brian Lee pushed his car hard on his last run getting onto the grass following the chicane - a display of commitment and easily recovered. Mike Hughes's newly Zetec'd Rutherford Lightweight shows continual development and speed on the track - must have been the full display of support from his whole family as they had come along to watch. Clive Hall missed out on improving on his great time from last year in his well prepared Class 3 4/4 x-flow - but none the less put in a great showing at his perennially strong venue.

Mike and Jill Smith from ThamesMog dropped in with a chocolate cake to celebrate Mike's birthday - so a small party in the pits concluded the day.

In the end I managed to come in first, leading the field by 5.5 seconds and 7.5 seconds faster than my morning run. Chalking up another 10 points for me and Missprint battling hard to secure 2nd.

Next up... Curborough, the club sprint next month.

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#100517 - 08/08/12 06:49 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
robmog88 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 21/05/07
Posts: 136
Loc: sutton coldfield, west midland...
glad to hear the engine rebuild is going well,
looking forward to seeing all the sprint competitors
on the start line at Curboro next month,
I'm the muppet in the high vis
manhandling your cars into position.
praying for a dry day.

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#100521 - 08/08/12 07:14 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: robmog88]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1120
Loc: South Warwickshire
Great write up Cereal, it appears the season is going well for you and Missprint.
Keep going.
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2011 Plus 4

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#100546 - 08/08/12 01:09 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Wirewheel]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
I'm looking forward to doing my usual stint at Curborough! smile
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#103835 - 09/09/12 09:57 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 18 - The Curborough 2012 Club Sprint



Hello again, I thought I'd better let you all know how things are going. It was, after all the 2012 Curborough MSCC Club Sprint last weekend. You would have all seen the info in Miscellany.

Whilst the race engine was ready to go back into the car, we've delayed plans to get it back into the car until the end of the season.. why, might you ask... well Woodstock the 1972 4/4 we purchased recently will be receiving the current temporary engine (it was just too good to give back) and the race engine will return to it's place in the blue and white car – however with injection rather than the current twin 45’s which will be staying with the interim engine in Woodstock.

Work is currently underway to strip Woodstock down before the re-build commences. When it's finished it's likely should be a mix of 700kg's with 190bhp. Probably a little lighter than the blue and white car as the 72 car's were slightly smaller/lighter than the 80's cars.

Anyhow back to Curborough... It's a course that is short, small, tight and technical. TBH, it's a course that I always find testing, there are few places to find time and small mistakes are punished severely. With many corners, good hooked up runs are few and far between, you always seem to walk away thinking there was an error that could have been better and unfortunately the times always reflect this. We knew that the Sprint car would be challenged, the 1st gear ratio is quite high and this causes challenges with the Fradley Hairpin where judicious flicking of the clutch is required to coax the car round the tight corner, this year also we would be complicated by the Diff locking up mid-corner inducing under steer. Hhhmmm. well. going to be a fun day then.

Missprint and I would need to drive the track faster than we have ever done before to stay in with a chance to win. (or even get close). We concentrated on feeling the flow, with the tarmac on Paddock Bend having been re-surfaced we needed to make new sighting points as the familiar 2 light patches of tarmac that used to be present were now gone!

It is however good to see that Curborough has experienced some renovation since it has just signed a 10 year extension to it's lease. Securing the future of the venue.

With a very low turn out (only 18 racers compared to the usual 30-35) we were going to be getting a lot of runs so as long as the track stayed dry the lap record times were looking good to get broken. There were due to be just over 20 racers but 2 cars broke down on route the night before, one broke a pushrod in the paddock before scruitineering and unfortunately another competitor lost steering control during practice and sailed into the boundary hedge/treeline. Luckily I think it only looked like wing and cowl damage which can be easily repaired. The cross head etc. all looked straight.

So it was left to the rest of the field to battle things out. Missprint and I blasted through practice. I put in my best runs before lunch, probably a combination of fresh concentration and jet lag - Missprint and I having only just flown back to the UK from New York the day before!

It was great to see Troy and Cooper from Northampton Motorsport come down (our engine builders) at lunch to see how things were going and have a good look around the paddock at the array of cars racing. Northampton Motorsport currently sponsor the Westfield Sprint Series.

Missprint and I were still out of sync and where I faded towards the end of the day Missprint came on stronger and stronger, continuing the head to head battle with fellow class competitor Paul Bryan who also has a Zetec engined 80's 4/4.

In the end, I managed to drop below the lap record by just over a second, securing victory with Missprint coming 4th overall. Not too bad as this is usually our weakest circuit.

To give you all an idea of the speeds we get upto I've mapped the track sections from the track map above against the telemetry info we have so you can see the speeds and distances we experience. At the bottom of the graph you have the distance in meters and on the left the Speed in MPH. Hope you all have fun looking through it, It's out fastest laps.


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#103857 - 10/09/12 08:14 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1120
Loc: South Warwickshire
Mintymog and I really enjoy the day at Curborough watching the racing, and meeting Cereal.
There is a good view of the whole circuit from the bank and great bacon sandwiches and coffees.
Spectators are also welcomed around the pit area.
A really good day out, to be recommended.
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2011 Plus 4

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#103860 - 10/09/12 09:08 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Wirewheel]
A11OGE Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 14/05/07
Posts: 2403
Loc: Reading
"..........the 1st gear ratio is quite high and this causes challenges with the Fradley Hairpin .........."

Having driven around Curborough it is a surpise to think you were in 1st.
_________________________
Steve A11OGE Red 1989 4/4 4 seater

'A Morgan is for life, not just for Sundays'

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#103861 - 10/09/12 09:28 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: A11OGE]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: A11OGE
"..........the 1st gear ratio is quite high and this causes challenges with the Fradley Hairpin .........."

Having driven around Curborough it is a surpise to think you were in 1st.

We were in second... but the high 1st also pushed 2nd up a touch. The net result is that 1st is too low and 2nd is slightly too high. Strangely the stock 2nd is better for that turn. Our 2nd gear is geared for upto 83mph on this engine, so Fradley at 33mph is a bit of a squeeze. Sticking in a gear change does only causes problems.. I've tried it a couple of times. The benefit with the 2nd we have is that you can stick with 2nd all the way around other than the 1-2 shift off the line and the 2-3-4 shift up the long straight

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#103863 - 10/09/12 09:46 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
robmog88 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 21/05/07
Posts: 136
Loc: sutton coldfield, west midland...
great report Andy, I was the startline Marshall again this year (the handsome one) and thought some of your launches were the smoothest we witnessed, you and Missprint certainly seem to have the wheel spin under control. we won't the 3 false starts caused by lack of juice! glad that the grumpy timekeeper eventually allowed your 5th run. trust me he was a reet grumpy bloody Yorkie,
makes you wonder why people get involved if all they can do is be officious.
Phil the Egg, Take Care David and I had a great day on the start. the only pity is of course is that once you've taken Paddock bend and the start of your second lap is all we can see from the start, plus we can't hear the snidy commentary from Lord U and his assistant Arthur Daley. good day nonetheless, 2 practice runs each, 6 timed and a run off and all done by 3.30pm, amazing. just shows the attrition rate, with Paul Clarkes brakes failing, as you mention Simon Moores crash and a couple of other withdrawals during the day it was a hectic day, much enjoyed as always.

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#103865 - 10/09/12 10:05 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: robmog88]
A11OGE Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 14/05/07
Posts: 2403
Loc: Reading
Originally Posted By: robmog88
....... thought some of your launches were the smoothest we witnessed, you and Missprint certainly seem to have the wheel spin under control. .........

I was at the Brighton Speed Trails on Saturday, supporting Roger Bluff (TVMOG) in his Roaster. grouphug

I stood behind the start line when the bikes were taking off. I was astonished at the getaway of the top fuelled bike. It was like they were on elastic. notworthy
_________________________
Steve A11OGE Red 1989 4/4 4 seater

'A Morgan is for life, not just for Sundays'

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#103933 - 11/09/12 05:21 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: A11OGE]
robmog88 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 21/05/07
Posts: 136
Loc: sutton coldfield, west midland...
like the missprint, Roaster, of other machinery?

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#103960 - 11/09/12 11:03 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: robmog88]
SpeedMog Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 1694
Loc: Northwich, Cheshire
Originally Posted By: robmog88
great report Andy, I was the startline Marshall again this year (the handsome one) and thought some of your launches were the smoothest we witnessed, you and Missprint certainly seem to have the wheel spin under control. we won't the 3 false starts caused by lack of juice! glad that the grumpy timekeeper eventually allowed your 5th run. trust me he was a reet grumpy bloody Yorkie,
makes you wonder why people get involved if all they can do is be officious.
Phil the Egg, Take Care David and I had a great day on the start. the only pity is of course is that once you've taken Paddock bend and the start of your second lap is all we can see from the start, plus we can't hear the snidy commentary from Lord U and his assistant Arthur Daley. good day nonetheless, 2 practice runs each, 6 timed and a run off and all done by 3.30pm, amazing. just shows the attrition rate, with Paul Clarkes brakes failing, as you mention Simon Moores crash and a couple of other withdrawals during the day it was a hectic day, much enjoyed as always.


Ooiii... I'm the handsome one.. somestick

... and never mind the grumpy timekeeper it was grumpy start line marshal who was saying "non" first... slap

Seriously.. great day and much fun for all..start line was a great place to be..even if we missed most (note most) of the spins.....

Just flag need to get a car back and go sprinting again myself..
_________________________
Phil Egginton

"Think very carefully… because if you ever start, you will never leave it alone"

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#105152 - 22/09/12 09:13 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: SpeedMog]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 19 - Woodstock - Deconstruction Stage

Today we started the preparation work on our latest purchase "Woodstock" a 72 4/4 with a long-standing racing history in the hands of Martyn Culling.



We will be re-building the little 4/4 into a 200bhp racer using the proven "interim engine" currently in our other racer.

Missprint got stuck straight into sorting out her car getting into the swing of unbolting the variety of parts we won't be using. Getting back to the basic car which we can begin to clean-up, powder coat and paint.



We've decided on a Yellow, Charcoal Gray and Black color combination.

We started off by stripping the interior and bulkhead followed by the engine-bay.



The interior strip included the fuel and power lines which for fuel will be re-routed ouside the car and not on the exhaust side and the power will all be located under the bonnet.

Talking under the bonnet, we dis-connected the heater and removed the redundant plumbing. The engine was then removed shortly followed by the gearbox. The interior and engine bay were completely stripped other than the dash electronics meaning we could remove the prop shaft and gear box cover.







With the engine out, it gave us a chance to take a closer look at the engine spec. The head is highly modified, the inlet and exhaust ports well flowed with high performance roller-rockers on the tops of the push rods. Double valve springs were also easily visible.







We could also see the lightweight fly and the "as new" clutch!!


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#105153 - 22/09/12 09:14 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795


It's clear that it's one high performance xflow and in very good condition....!

With the engine and gearbox stripped out we were also able to compare the Type "E" Rocket Box prop shaft with a spare Type 9 box we had lying around. We quickly realised that whilst the length of the prop was fine the output shafts of the two gearboxes were different in size and we need to sort out a new Input female splined socket on the front of the prop or a new prop (research into this will commence immediately). We have a supplier who can probably sort us.. but it will be interesting to see what others have done.

At the end of the day we had stripped out the car and Missprint was having fun....



Woodstock's smiley face... better than a Smart!



So at the end of the day...



Almost at the point of starting to clean things up.... just the wings to come off.

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#105163 - 22/09/12 11:30 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Richard - Aus Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 15/01/12
Posts: 1602
Loc: Perth, WA, Australia
It does look fun. Thanks for sharing and interesting as ever!

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#105175 - 23/09/12 07:06 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Richard - Aus]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1120
Loc: South Warwickshire
Great phots. Missprint looks to be having a lot of fun. I bet you both can't wait to get it racing. Good luck with the rebuild.
_________________________
2011 Plus 4

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#105404 - 24/09/12 08:46 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Wirewheel]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Ferrari Giallo Fly or Lambo Giallo Orion?

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#105408 - 24/09/12 09:25 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
pandy Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 1629
Loc: West Paris, France
Originally Posted By: cerealsurfer
Ferrari Giallo Fly or Lambo Giallo Orion?


Welsh daffodil.
_________________________
Giles. 4/4 sport.

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#105595 - 26/09/12 09:57 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: pandy]
Martyn Culling Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 529
Loc: Snorbans, UK
I was told when I bought Woodstock it was painted in Ferrari Gallio Fly, and when I rebuilt the car in 1988/9 the repaint definitely was this colour as I both specified it and paid for it!
_________________________
1930 Super Sport Aero 'The Elk'

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#105609 - 26/09/12 11:49 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Martyn Culling]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: Martyn Culling
I was told when I bought Woodstock it was painted in Ferrari Gallio Fly, and when I rebuilt the car in 1988/9 the repaint definitely was this colour as I both specified it and paid for it!

Indeed.. we have compared it to another Giallo Fly Yellow morgan as there are two Gallio Fly Yellow colours. The question is weather to keep it Giallo Fly or change to another yellow.

Giallo Orion is slightly different, not sure it would work, hence the question.

Currently the default would be a respray in Fly Yellow.

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#106187 - 29/09/12 10:54 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 20 - Cleaning and painting the basics

So this week has involved the profuse use of the sanders. Rotary Belt, Large Pad, Small Pad, Air Disk and of course by hand!!

Well all I can say is I never expected to end up using a 40 Grit Heavy Duty belt sander to get the paint off!!

First-up was the interior.. having stripped things out last week we decided in the end to take the floorboards out and referbish the inner chassis.

Before:



After:





We have removed the rear frame over the axle, the wooden deck frame has been stripped and repainted and the two pieces of wood and one of tin which make up the rear deck will be replaced with sheet aluminium. The rear of the deck (which seperates the interior from the fuel tank has been bent to shape by the sheet bender machine at the local forge. You can also see in this picture the rear suspension hoop has been fitted.

Back deck before:



Back deck after:



Ali sheets to be fitted.



Then onto the front of the car, taking the bonnet off and cowel and Missprint and I getting stuck in with the sanders.. getting the black paint off the engine bay. The bulkhead will be sprayed black so needs a good finish and the inner bay pannels will be painted with smooth black metal paint. Well.. all I can say is it was some serious sanding. Missprint did a great job on the front Cross Head and steering/track bars.



In the end, the result was fantastic and it's already to be painted.





Another thing sorted this week.....

Modification of the propshaft so the front coupling can mount to a Type 9 who's output shaft is larger than the Ford 4 speed.


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#106188 - 29/09/12 11:34 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Richard - Aus Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 15/01/12
Posts: 1602
Loc: Perth, WA, Australia
Looks good and educational, thanks!

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#106242 - 30/09/12 03:22 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Richard - Aus]
4/4sportsfun Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 1622
Loc: South Hams of Devon, England
Great photos and a lot of hard work going on here, but it's really interesting watching the progress.
Thanks for sharing. smile
_________________________
Richard

If you don't know where your'e going any road will take you there. G.H.


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#106281 - 30/09/12 06:36 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: 4/4sportsfun]
Jim Mountain Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 24/03/08
Posts: 285
Loc: Chesham Bucks
Andy if your going to race the car in the morgan challange you might need to check the regs before taking out bits of the ash frame.

see 5.6.2.1

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...wZmJlMTEyMmNlZQ

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#106283 - 30/09/12 06:55 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Jim Mountain]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Jim, thanks for the heads up..... I'm working on the basis that the ash frame will not be changed as per 5.6.2.1. Only the plywood in-fill on the floor and back deck are swapped as per 5.6.1.8 the regs I agree prohibit the removal of any parts of the frame itself.

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#106285 - 30/09/12 07:03 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Jim Mountain]
Gambalunga Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 2069
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Out of curiosity, and given my ground clearance problems (hopefully now resolved), can anyone tell me just where this measurement is made on a trad chassis. A photo would be nice smile

Quote:
5.6.2 Prohibited Modifications:

5. Ground Clearance – Lowering the car so that the bottom of the Z section of the chassis (the
lowest point of the chassis on Aero 8), measured at a point midway between the front and rear
wheel centres (at the toeboard on traditional models) is less than:
Classes A, A 4 cylinder, B 4 cylinder, E(1-7) - 102mm.
Classes A Aero 8,NPlus8, B Aero 8(incl GTN) - 127mm,
Classes B 6 cylinder & 8 cylinder, C, D, E, F, R - 130mm.
Class E(8):- 140mm
_________________________
Peter
Plus 4, Sport White (Ivory) Mulberry trim

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#106289 - 30/09/12 07:18 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Gambalunga]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: Gambalunga
Out of curiosity, and given my ground clearance problems (hopefully now resolved), can anyone tell me just where this measurement is made on a trad chassis. A photo would be nice smile

Quote:
5.6.2 Prohibited Modifications:

5. Ground Clearance – Lowering the car so that the bottom of the Z section of the chassis (the
lowest point of the chassis on Aero 8), measured at a point midway between the front and rear
wheel centres (at the toeboard on traditional models) is less than:
Classes A, A 4 cylinder, B 4 cylinder, E(1-7) - 102mm.
Classes A Aero 8,NPlus8, B Aero 8(incl GTN) - 127mm,
Classes B 6 cylinder & 8 cylinder, C, D, E, F, R - 130mm.
Class E(8):- 140mm


Gambalunga,
The 'Z' sections are the two main steel chassis rails either side of the car. At no point ie. at any point through the length of the car, should they fall below this level of clearance.

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#106311 - 30/09/12 09:18 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Gambalunga Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 2069
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Thanks Cereal.

This topic and the development of the cars has got me so interested I'm seriously thinking of taking a low cost flight and a couple of days to come and watch you and Miss Print in action next year. Are there any tracks where you will be racing within reasonable striking distance of one of the airports serviced by low cost flights?
_________________________
Peter
Plus 4, Sport White (Ivory) Mulberry trim

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#106349 - 01/10/12 07:34 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Gambalunga]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Birmingham airport, MSCC Curborough sprint in September?

Just a thought smile
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#106388 - 01/10/12 11:45 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
Gambalunga Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 2069
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Birmingham works for us. BE has flights from Malpensa to Birmingham.
_________________________
Peter
Plus 4, Sport White (Ivory) Mulberry trim

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#106392 - 01/10/12 12:59 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Gambalunga]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Now you have no excuse not to meet a number of TMers next year! thumbs
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#106493 - 01/10/12 10:00 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
Jays Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 3335
Loc: worcestershire UK
I don't need much of an excuse to get to watch at Curborough! Not far from the airport so you are very welcome to a lift Peter......and a room if you want.
_________________________
Jay

2010 4/4 "Super Sport "

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#109078 - 22/10/12 09:33 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Jays]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 21 - Finishing the floor and putting in the scuttle roll bar

This weekend saw the completion of the floor and the installation of the scuttle roll bar.

First-up, the floor was completed. We filled in the floor and used the original wooden deck both the deck itself and the original frame painted grey. We used 1mm Ali to trim the wheel arches and dressed the Ali over the edge onto the top of the wheel-arch. Later we will put a top piece on to complete the trimming of the wheel-arch.

We also used the opportunity to replace the rear pannel as we needed to get into the fuel tank area to replace a snapped wooden frame - which looks like it's been caused by overloading at some point.



In order to sort out where to put the underfloor seat brackets we dummied in the seats and Missprint got comfortable. We lined up the brackets and seam welded steel plates across the chassis to safely mount the brackets to. We put an additional smaller re-enforcing place across the edge join to ensure maximum anchorage. Once this was completed the Ali floor plates were bonded into place.



Next up.... sorting out the scuttle roll=bar.....

The doors were taken off earlier in the week to strip the interior trim off.



The leather has been replaced with Ali 1mm sheet similar to that on the rear wheel arches - though un-finished, it looks great.

Right.. back to the roll-bar. First up, stripping out the dash. Whilst all the old gauges work they will all be replaced. I have a complete RaceTechnology DL1 Telemetry system and Dash 2 digital dash already to go. So after unscrewing the dash, a lot of labelling had to be done. Also lots of nugatory wiring was stripped out cleaning the harness back to it's original state.



Having moved the dash out the way. The roll bar brackets could be mounted. In the end we made a set as they needed to be extra wide.



With a spacer on the bulkhead we bolted the scuttle roll bar into place whilst also supporting the bulkhead in position - Sorted.!






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#109081 - 22/10/12 11:00 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Richard - Aus Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 15/01/12
Posts: 1602
Loc: Perth, WA, Australia
Great work smile

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#109088 - 23/10/12 08:04 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Richard - Aus]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1120
Loc: South Warwickshire
Originally Posted By: Richard - Aus
Great work smile

+1 fascinating stuff.
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#109093 - 23/10/12 08:47 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Wirewheel]
John +4 Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 21/07/07
Posts: 2788
Loc: Bucks
Very neat

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#109725 - 28/10/12 06:08 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: John +4]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 22 - Woodstock week 4 and Castle Combe

Woodstock week 4

On Woodstock this week, the engine bay was painted black and using other parts from the package from Mulfab the front suspension and brakes have been rebuilt.





Castle Combe - Last race and season clincher



So down to the last race of the season... five entrants only, including Missprint and myself. The other three entrants are people who are beatable given the seasons trend. So it's all to loose.... such a straight forward task!!??

So having been watching the weather all week... it went from lashing rain, wind to extremely cold yet sunny.

All is going well... an early loading up in the dark as what happens usually for Castle Coombe and this year even later in the year.



Looking at the car temp sensor... it's showing only 1.5 degrees, this is going to be extra chilly.. though it's dry which is a relief.



Having reached the track, we broke the car down in to racing trim and got through scruitineering. First runs were delayed due to a spin and tea (warm drinks) needing to be taken out to the track marshalls. The sun was out but it was not heating up much. It was clear that the best runs were going to be just after lunch when maximum heat was about.

The Class 7 target time was 96.12 - Missprint had the potential to come 4th and I would be able to clinch the Championship having a whole race in hand. 8 points of more would secure 1st overall.

Missprint's first run put in a run 10 seconds off target, which is her usual opening salvo and plenty of potential to reduce. My opening run was 97.14 plenty close enough to trim a little time to get under the target time calculated last season from my Class 3 time. One observation both Missprint and I had was the lack of general grip and also the high entry speeds our car now has!!

Second run out saw Missprint chop a whole heap of time off her lap, now it was down to me. I set off from the start cleanly and rocketed down through Camp, Folley and taking a nice straight line through Avon Rise arrived at Quarry. Onto the brakes slowing and then a little lock-up. Off and on the brakes but now too deep - need to make the turn. Turning into Quarry increasing levels of understear set in and slid off the circuit at the start of Farm Straight. Across the small grassy run-off area and into the tyre wall.... @$%!%^ ensued and that was the day's racing over. Head in hands really disapointed in myself!

After a quick chat to the track doctor who I have to say was great, the car was trailerd back to the paddock...

Not too bad from the drivers side:



But then as you go round the car.. not so great.....



ouch... much pride dented... there goes the championship before any real timed race ensued on the day. Missprint didn't get the chance to complete her runs so she missed out and I really feel for dad who's put so much time in on the car.

Donations were offered....in jest, but serious offers of time and effort were greatly welcomed... expect a working party at some point early next year to remount the body onto a new chassis.


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#109726 - 28/10/12 06:08 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
The racing resumed in the afternoon but between my off and several others on the day runs were cut down to one timed run only. Even then, one of the TVR drivers failed to get beyond 300 yards from the start line before getting onto the grass on the infield.

Results in the Morgan camp for the remaineder of the field were as expected - Paul Bryan picking up the honors followed by Clive Glass and Ian Hargrave.



At the end of the day, we headed home with a hanging yet slightly stiff neck along with a real dose of dented pride.



Back at home, I whipped out the telemetary chip and took a look at what happened.... the graphs tell the tale... the cold reduced grip by 30%, I was over committed going into quarry and whilst the entry speed was matched to the last run the braking was harder. A momentary lock up pushed me 10mph too quick into the turn and understeer ensued.







So... what's our focus now... well, Woodstock needs to be finished and that's our priority. The little sprint car will be packaged up and long lead time items considered and ordered. Chassis, Cross-head, near-side wings all need replacing and will take months to source - funds permitting.

At the end of the day, it's on all the signs of the circuit and we've had 4 years racing with no major off's. I'm ok which is what matters and the race car can be re-built.


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#109728 - 28/10/12 06:22 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1120
Loc: South Warwickshire
Glad to hear that you are alright.
Thanks for keeping us informed and entertained during the season.
Good luck with the rebuild.
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#109729 - 28/10/12 06:32 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Wirewheel]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
How come I appear in a photo, plate in hand??? grin2
I normally don't bother with plates rofl

Anyway, shout when you need a hand! If I'm not noise testing, timekeeping or hill controlling, I'll dig out my scruffy boilersuit smile
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Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#109730 - 28/10/12 06:35 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
sprinty Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 27/11/07
Posts: 352
Well if it is any consolation Quarry is responsible for 25% of accidents at all UK circuits!
Andy- hope you were wearing a HANS- I don't even notice I am wearing it now, and it is the best investment I have made in my safety equipment.
Good luck with the rebuild,


John

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#109732 - 28/10/12 06:51 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: sprinty]
missprint Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 122
Loc: Surrey, England
Originally Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ
Anyway, shout when you need a hand! If I'm not noise testing, timekeeping or hill controlling, I'll dig out my scruffy boilersuit smile

Thank you Graham, very kind of you to offer. Was good seeing you yesterday! Looks like we're getting together a bit of a task force when the time comes smile

Originally Posted By: sprinty
Well if it is any consolation Quarry is responsible for 25% of accidents at all UK circuits!
Andy- hope you were wearing a HANS- I don't even notice I am wearing it now, and it is the best investment I have made in my safety equipment.

The blue car knows this area of the track far too well - the white wings were a result of a previous encounter I had with the tyre wall at the end of Avon Rise on the left 4 years ago exactly.

HANS was on the "to get" list... now it's on the "must get list"! Thankfully, Cerealsurfer did get lucky this time - nothing some whiplash physio exercises can't sort! smile The door bracing bars saved most of the car and certainly the central wooden tub. All damage is front chassis, as a result saving most of the car... and cereal!!
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#109733 - 28/10/12 07:01 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
GerryWal Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 11/09/11
Posts: 487
Loc: East Herts
My commiserations, Cereal- at least you're still smiling! Looks like you are going to be very busy through the winter, best of luck with the rebuild and also the developement of Woodstock (did you spray the body just to match the new front brake calipers?)
Gerry smile

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#109735 - 28/10/12 07:08 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: GerryWal]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: GerryWal
My commiserations, Cereal- at least you're still smiling! Looks like you are going to be very busy through the winter, best of luck with the rebuild and also the developement of Woodstock (did you spray the body just to match the new front brake calipers?)
Gerry smile

Gerry, thanks for your comments... As for the calipers, I had them painted by HiSpec in Yellow during manufacture. It's an option, but you have to wait for them to be made one off.

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#109736 - 28/10/12 07:17 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
sprinty Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 27/11/07
Posts: 352

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#109739 - 28/10/12 07:31 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: sprinty]
missprint Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 122
Loc: Surrey, England
Thanks sprinty - no wonder they sell them at Combe! We were even in the shop earlier that day...
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#109748 - 28/10/12 09:01 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: missprint]
MonteZooma Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 17/08/12
Posts: 374
Loc: UK, Lancashire
That is a real shame Cereal frown I feel for you, and all the more so because its the last outing of the season. With work in progress on Woodstock it would have been good to have the sprint car back in one piece for the winter break. Main thing is that you're OK, but I guess that doesn't really help right now... I only had one off that did significant damage in my time on the track and looking at you car photos instantly brings back the the feelings of anger (at throwing away second place), frustration and disappointment (at damaging my pride and joy)... thought interestingly nothing regarding relief at my lack of injury, funny that. Good luck with the rebuild, MZ.

P.S. Love the new yellow HiSpec four pot callipers for Woodstock BTW.


Edited by MonteZooma (28/10/12 09:17 PM)
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2005 Plus 4 - 2.0 ltr Duratec

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#109753 - 28/10/12 09:53 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: MonteZooma]
asbojohn Online   content
le Asbo du Bling
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 23/07/07
Posts: 2583
Loc: Cambridgeshire
Cereal, as with all things like this the most important outcome is that you walked away.

He who slides and walks way lives to race another day drive
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Why have one colour when you can have them all wink

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#109758 - 28/10/12 11:24 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: asbojohn]
Richard - Aus Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 15/01/12
Posts: 1602
Loc: Perth, WA, Australia
Thanks as ever for the update and I'm even more pleased to hear that you were able to walk away and drive home, as you say this is what really counts.

Stay safe.

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#109761 - 29/10/12 07:07 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: asbojohn]
A11OGE Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 14/05/07
Posts: 2403
Loc: Reading
Originally Posted By: asbojohn
Cereal, as with all things like this the most important outcome is that you walked away.

He who slides and walks way lives to race another day drive


grouphug i heard from my friend competing in a TR7 that a Morgan had crashed. Pleased read you are OK grouphug
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'A Morgan is for life, not just for Sundays'

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#109773 - 29/10/12 08:49 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Best warn thee folks. I have a delivery at Lancaster Court tomorrow (Tuesday) a.m. just around the corner. Hope the tea machine is working grin2
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Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#109896 - 30/10/12 01:02 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: missprint]
Martyn Culling Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 529
Loc: Snorbans, UK
Glad only pride was hurt, cars mend, people don't always.

In the years I was the custodian of Woodstock, I think had three rather lesser accidents hillclimbing. The mark on the left wing was caused by the armco at Prescott as the right line goes within an inch, and I slightly misjudged it. The front spoiler and oil cooler were bent at Werrington Park after going straight on at the 90 left, and my biggest off was at Curborough where the steering box was damaged, and the stub axle bent.
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#109900 - 30/10/12 01:22 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Martyn Culling]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 3740
Loc: Yorkshire
Somebody once said that if you're not prepared to bend it you shoudn't compete, as you won't be quick enough. That's my excuse anyway, and I'm sticking to it. blush
Very sorry to see the damage Cereal, but at least it will keep you busy over winter.
A body-lifting TM day out sounds quite appealing. I haven't done that since we lifted an MGA body, then carried it down the drive, up next door's drive and over a five foot brick wall onto the back garden. I wonder if it's still there? That was in the early eighties..........
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Red Roadster

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#109904 - 30/10/12 02:00 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Martyn Culling]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Must be something about nearside stub axles. Mine was replaced a few years ago (I don't think it was me that bent it...).
I have just been to see Woodstock's progress (thanks Brian and Ann). There is a lot of work going into the car. I didn't notice the Armco paint, but a friends Chimaera also carries some on the nearside wing. Although in his case he said it was more a case of lack of competence in the driver! smile

Cheers,
_________________________
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B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#109906 - 30/10/12 02:11 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
John +4 Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 21/07/07
Posts: 2788
Loc: Bucks
Open to help lift the body if am available.
Let me know.

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#109907 - 30/10/12 02:30 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: John +4]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Looks like there could be a grouphug party at this rate laugh2
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Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#109921 - 30/10/12 05:56 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Thanks for all your comments.... I think your offers of effort are heart warming right now and something I may well take you up on when the time comes.

For now, I need to get it into storage so work can progress to complete Woodstock. The Blue an White car will need to be worked on early next year.

I've spoken to Terry at GEE and chassis and Cross head talks are under-way.

I agree, never race your pride and joy and off's are inevitable when pushing it.

Still a blow when it does, especially as, there is only one pilot behind the wheel and in sprint racing, only you on the track!

A moment of inner reflection ensues.....

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#109938 - 30/10/12 08:18 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Frank 4x4 Offline
Green & Grown Up
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 2521
Loc: Buckinghamshire UK.
I am late in reading the topic and seeing your photos. I have never built or rebuilt a car, but know the frustration if I lose a well crafted email. I tear my hair out, then I smile, just a little, and then I go an kick something, many times.

The car looked magnificent after your upgrade and rebuild, and will look just as great after repeating the process.

But, having said all that, what a terrible terrible shame!

Being 'local' if I can help when a lift is needed?

Frank

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#110017 - 31/10/12 03:07 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
1560 Offline
Goodwood Drifter
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 2878
Loc: european union
Happy tosee you're OK
Enjoy the work wink
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#110054 - 31/10/12 08:39 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: DaveW]
GerryWal Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 11/09/11
Posts: 487
Loc: East Herts
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
-- Mario Andretti

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#113683 - 02/12/12 03:43 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: GerryWal]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 23 - A short moment of reflection followed by taking the opportunity

Drivers Dinner and Awards
So the season closes with Chris Bailey clinching the honours for the SpeedMog Championship Trophy. Chris has had a fantastic season which is the culmination of five years determination chipping away at the Class 6 target times to finally have a long and sustained string of lap record beating runs. Chris entered almost all of the rounds this season and is a great example of perseverence and improvement getting the result in the end. A great guy to hold the honours.

At the end of the season there is a drivers dinner where several key management activities happen followed by a season ending knees-up!!

First of all there is the technical comittee. This is a pannel of four experts who discuss the observed stand-out technical differences in the prior season both in Sprinting as well as the circuit series and fast road development. We look forward to the upcoming season/broader future and try to consider if additional ammendments will be required to the regulations to keep the championship fare the true for competitors entering next season. This season more than any other has demonstrated the increasing varied performance of the smaller engined cars with the higher developed cars effectively eclipsing most of the larger V6 and V8 models.

The championship over the last few years have been observing this shift in the context of continual class sub-division. The championship has 12 classes and several are already sub-divided into upto six or so sections. It can make things quite complex for new starters and the championship is keen to allow people to race whatever standard or home brew special they turn up with.
The net result is that for the fist time next year, the championship will be (subject to drafting) sporting power/performance windows in the mid table modified classes allowing people to slot into classes with similar performance vehicles - putting beneficial limitations on the formula specifications as they were specified last year. This has been welecomed by all as an improvement and providing a balanced and inclusive platform for racing.

A couple of other key additions were ratified and included:

  • Performance enhancing front splitters Class 10 upwards - to increase front end stability at high speed, especially on smaller engined cars.
  • Launch control and flat shifters Class 10 upwards - these are now easily accessed cheap fun performance enhahcements which should be legislated for.
  • Sequential gearboxes Class 10 upwards - controlling the presence of all semi auto or paddle shift options standard or otherwise.


Second is a review of the target times, with the power bands introduced we set about working out what impact this has on the target times. Having put in a seasons worth of blistering runs whilst the blue and white car sill conforms to the specification and performance window of Class 7, the times were only 1% away from those of Class 9. Effectively blighting class 7 (one of the most popular classes) with lap records most racers are unlikely to achieve or consider fun (the most important thing) to race against. As a result I have proposed to have my Class 7 times moved to Class 8 or 9 where appropriate to maintain the target time differential between the classes.

Other News

The Taster Day next year will be more of a family day including performance enhancement show in the paddock and events on the outfield. This is intended to make the day more inclusive for the Morgan community. It should be a hoot!

A "Go Sprinting" guide will be produced and published in Miscellany and elsewhere to simplify the steps of going sprinting. In the standard classes it's really easy to get a licence (no test requried), get a set of gloves, overalls and helmet and get going (no special car prep requried)!!

You don't have to go nuts like we do to have a great and thrilling time!!!


Getting back to the cars!
After a moment of reflection, we have to get these cars moving on. Next season will be looming faster than ever and now we don't just have to finish one car and do an engine swap, we have all that and a complete chassis up re-build to complete!!!

Woodstock work therefore has been continuing a-pace. Last time you looked in, we were working on the interior. The trimming of the rear deck area has been completed. Initiall trimming the wheel-arches in thin ali:




Missprint had her work cut out sorting out the doors, we wanted a roadster LW look so again thin ali sheet will be used to trim the inner door pannels. We also test sprayed the door latch in the proposed yellow. TBH having done this our conclusion it that it looks pants! these have since been sprayed dark grey to match the grill (which has been re-built haveing melted in the powder coating oven - ooops) and is also sprayed in the dark grey.



We sent the wheels, trans tunnel, roll-bar and tbh a bunch of other stuff off to a local powder coater we know to be soda blasted and coated in a dark grey we think will work well with the yellow and ali. On finishing the trimming including new suspension covers the roll-bar has been fitted to make measurements for the door bars.



The back pannel of the parcel shelf was replaced, as when the spare wheel was removed it became clear that the rear frame section had previously at some point snapped and no longer supported the rear of the body. Being from a town with a long history in woodwork and chair making a replacement was easily locally sourced and some excellent local skills came usefully back into the picture.



We fabricated new safty bracketry for the roll-bar as the originals were a little "light" for our liking and these certainly meet the current blue book spec as well as our saffy appetite. Once again the local forge came up trumps having the kit needed to roll the curve into the steel to get the right shape of the inner wheel-arch. You cal also see in the lower roll-bar mounts where we have made holes for the fuel and brake lines to run outside rather than inside the car!!







So an overview shot of the car right now.... it's got a coulpe of white wheels from the Blue and White temporarily fitted, Woodstocks wheels are gloss dark grey. Anthracite.



With the front suspension completely re-built with all new parts and the engine bay painted in black we have been holding off painting the bulk-head so we can get a really good finish.






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#113684 - 02/12/12 03:44 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795


I really like seeing engine bays where the bulk head is "clean, clear and crisp" not caked to death in matt black mushy gunk that's been sticking, melting to everything that's touched it for the last 30 years!

So first up was breaking out the masking tape to stick down the plastic sheet to cover the car and also to tape up the holes in the bulk-head. Now I don't know what the guys either, a) at the factory were thinking or b) those who've had this car since... but WTF! check out the number of holes in this thing, looks like someone has gone mental with a drill. Anyhow, they will all be sorted out nice and cleanly once we are finished. smile



When Missprint and I were prepping the bulkhead we found there was some pitting which would not be effectively removed by sanding so some additional prep would be requried. We rust treated all the bulkhead to make sure no residual rust would be present in the pits and use a very thin screed of filler to smooth off the top of the bulkhead. Once sanded would give a super smooth finish. Paint's all in the prep! Missprint at the same time scraped of the multiple layers of yellow paint from the leading edge of the bonnet. Again the outer body paint prep will increase in focus as we head towards getting a great re-spray job and bring this little car back to looking like new (or in some cases better!).





We laid up the undercoat and first three coats of hamarite gloss.







I really like it when you can see the reflections in the X pressing on the side and front of the bulkhead. The car was laid up with the heater on to bake it down.



Following another three coats of paint the bulkhead's completed. It looks great. Appologies for the slightly dodgy photo's.





Having got that sorted the car was stacked away whilst we wait for the gearbox from Quaife which has taken a while and the back axle from JB Engineering. Mean time the Race technology digital display and carbon dash are being made. As the Blue and White car has leather around the scuttle a new template has been made to get the shape just right.






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#113686 - 02/12/12 03:47 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795


Finally what about the Blue and White car?

Having examined the cross head and chassis more closely.. they are complete toast. In addition the kingping on the N/S is bent so the hub is jammed. It all looks like a pretzel. Luckily all the damage has been localised to the front N/S so all the rest of the components can be re-used easily.

On the replacement/fix front...

The Chassis and Cross head are nearly finished upgraded as you would expect! a replacement inner N/S wheel arch panel has been made and collected. At some point soon a monster weekend strip and re-build will occur.. but I think this will be in the new year.

We're collecting the final parts up together for the yellow car and this weekend saw us collecting the full race engine from Northhampton Motorsports. As the blue and white car will be in Class 10 next year we have gone for injection, so the compression has been increased slightly and the single throttle body per cylinder set-up has been port matched every step throttle body to maifold and manifold to head. We're running 450cc injectors controlled by an Omex 600 unit with launch control enabled.



I also though I would show you guys what the clutches we use look like up close. These are twin plate ceramatalic clutches with different compositions on each plate. They are also only 7.25 inches across which makes them very light and have very low inertia.

These help when spinning the engine to 8000rpm+ and also strong enough to cope with standing launches at 5000rpm when you just dump the clutch.

The reason for two different materials is that they have different "take-up" or grip characteristics and allow a little staged slip to reduce the peak loading on the drive-line. They also look really pretty! (or is that a bit too grease monkey for ya).



Thanks for all reading and for the ongoing support!! thumbs

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#113701 - 02/12/12 04:58 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1120
Loc: South Warwickshire
Fascinating read. Thanks for the update.
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2011 Plus 4

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#113709 - 02/12/12 05:59 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Wirewheel]
MonteZooma Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 17/08/12
Posts: 374
Loc: UK, Lancashire
Great update Cereal thanks.
Quick question, did you fit the "new" adjustable camber plates (I couldn't see clearly from the photos) and if so, what do you plan to run them at? If not, do you use fixed plates with some negative camber?
MZ
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2005 Plus 4 - 2.0 ltr Duratec

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#113710 - 02/12/12 06:07 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: MonteZooma]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: MonteZooma
Great update Cereal thanks.
Quick question, did you fit the "new" adjustable camber plates (I couldn't see clearly from the photos) and if so, what do you plan to run them at? If not, do you use fixed plates with some negative camber?
MZ

I don't use adjustable negative camber plates. We use static plates and set them at 1 Deg Negative.

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#113716 - 02/12/12 06:41 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795

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#113729 - 02/12/12 07:41 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Another great write-up to go with the photos...
Thanks for sharing thumbs
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Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#113750 - 02/12/12 10:59 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
Richard - Aus Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 15/01/12
Posts: 1602
Loc: Perth, WA, Australia
Originally Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ
Another great write-up to go with the photos...
Thanks for sharing thumbs


+1

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#113751 - 02/12/12 11:01 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
4/4sportsfun Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 1622
Loc: South Hams of Devon, England
Thanks for sharing your updates they are really interesting and a great insight for anyone considering competition.

Good Luck with the rebuilds.
_________________________
Richard

If you don't know where your'e going any road will take you there. G.H.


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#113754 - 02/12/12 11:22 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: 4/4sportsfun]
Heinz Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 420
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Your reporting and photographs let me share the wonderful world of racing and competition. Thanks a lot thumbs

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#114811 - 08/12/12 06:47 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Heinz]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 24 - Gearbox, Spare wheel covers and seating

First-up Vintage Sheet metal completed the rear spare wheel cover, so we fabricated the necessary brackets to hold it in place. As you can see we have managed to source another high level brake light which we have summarily cut down for a more slim-line fit. The spare wheel cover will be sent off for powder coating to match the rest of the trim.

Before showing brackets:



After:



Next-up getting the gearbox in.

The gearbox finally arrived from Quaife. We've opted for the QBE15Z close ratio Heavy Duty box with straight cut gears. First up we dummied the box into the car where the 4 speeder was.





Next up we have located the mounting bracket for the rear end of the gearbox. As you can see, the bracket has been moved back about 2 inches, but it's not a complex job. You can also see in this picture that the original prop with the swapped yoke fits fine. I'm also pleased to see that there is no problem with fouling from the handbrake on the gearbox casing.





Now we have the gearbox in place we need to check the spacing of the gearbox tunnel. First up extracting the freshly powder coated gearbox tunnel from the wrapping. We dummed the tunnel in when we finalised the floor to mark out where the holes are likely to be needed... we're hoping they all work out!



Front section in first... the quaife boxes have a breather and filler in the top of the casing. So we need to put a hole in the top of the case as we're likely to need to get to this. Good news is that it actually fits with no other adjustments. The shifter hole works fine. (dispelling a few myths I've read elsewhere here). If you'd kept with plywood floor you'd also have about 8mm or so extra height which would help.



As we have the alloy floor the rear section of the trans tunnel is under the front (this is usually the other way round) but it works for us and gives a great finish with no further adjustment. Luckily all the holes lined up. In the grey it gives a great finish.




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#114812 - 08/12/12 06:48 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
From the engine bay showing how much of the gear box cover constitutes the bulkhead.



Finally Seats!

We have Sparco Rev+ seats now the Sparco Rev standard is no longer available.. this is ok other than the Rev+ is 2cm wider than the Rev... in a narrow Mog this is not too handy. (luckily they fit as alternatives are thin on the ground).



The seats use Sparco Pro Alloy mounts bolted to the additional steel cross members we welded on before putting the floor in.



Here you go.. drivers seat in place.. you can see the dash blank in place and the Quaift short cranked shifter fitted to the gearbox. As usual we trim about an inch off the bottom of the dash to provide more room for shifting.

So.. how does this work for Missprint...?





Good news.. fits like a glove. Final fit will be sorted once the Sparco R375 steering wheel with quick release boss is fitted. This test only highlighted how important the removable steering wheel is going to be once the door bars are fitted. This is due to the fit of the Roll Bar and Scuttle Bar on this car.. there is less room than the Blue and White car.

So that's us for this week!!! Thanks for looking in.....


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#114823 - 08/12/12 07:33 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
GerryWal Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 11/09/11
Posts: 487
Loc: East Herts
Thanks Cereal, another fascinating report on all the hard work you are doing. I'm glad you can find time to post all of this for us, as well as doing the spanner work. Looking forward to seeing Missprint with Woodstock sometime in 2013.
Best wishes Gerry.

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#114844 - 08/12/12 08:26 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: GerryWal]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1120
Loc: South Warwickshire
Originally Posted By: GerryWal
Thanks Cereal, another fascinating report on all the hard work you are doing. I'm glad you can find time to post all of this for us, as well as doing the spanner work. Looking forward to seeing Missprint with Woodstock sometime in 2013.
Best wishes Gerry.


Hear hear.
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2011 Plus 4

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#114857 - 08/12/12 11:15 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Wirewheel]
Richard - Aus Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 15/01/12
Posts: 1602
Loc: Perth, WA, Australia
A fascinating read as ever.

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#114872 - 09/12/12 08:25 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Richard - Aus]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Progress is looking really good. More than ever I want a trip East!! grin2
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Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#115861 - 15/12/12 03:50 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Jim Mountain Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 24/03/08
Posts: 285
Loc: Chesham Bucks
£3k for a gearbox!!! that's almost my budget for the whole rebuild (less the engine) on my 4/4

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#115937 - 16/12/12 10:49 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
hillclimber Offline
New to Talk Morgan

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 15
Impressive stuff. I look forward to each edition....

But some questions, please. I have a friend (heard tat one before) about to embark on the type 9 for 4 speed conversion and was asking about propshafts etc. But you suggested that the original prop is good although you swapped yokes? And, secondly, you moved the rear support bracket, but is is the same bracket? And how did you gauge how far to move it?

Last one, looking at starter motor location remind me what you're bolting to that bellhousing? Is it zetec or duratec?

cheers, Colin

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#115944 - 16/12/12 01:14 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: hillclimber]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Originally Posted By: hillclimber
Impressive stuff. I look forward to each edition....

But some questions, please. I have a friend (heard tat one before) about to embark on the type 9 for 4 speed conversion and was asking about propshafts etc. But you suggested that the original prop is good although you swapped yokes? And, secondly, you moved the rear support bracket, but is is the same bracket? And how did you gauge how far to move it?

Last one, looking at starter motor location remind me what you're bolting to that bellhousing? Is it zetec or duratec?

cheers, Colin


Hey, thanks for looking in.. we all have a friend somewhere wink happy to share.

You are correct. We have swapped the front yoke to a Type 9 one, it was a new part we obtained via a prop specialist we use in the Wembley area. The 4 speed prop is a slightly narrower tube than the Type 9 one on the 85 car we have but it looks plenty man enough, we'll soon find out if it's up to the job once we've launched it a few times.

The rear axle is currently at JB Engineering having a Quaife LSD put into it, so we have used a spare back axle we have to check spacing. We are using the Mulfab rear axle centralising kit so this gives a bit more room for float on the front prop yoke as it has been reduced we think due to the slightly revised shape of the front yoke. It may be necessary to centralise the rear axle to make the space to use an un-shortened axle.

We did move the bracket, we have the original 4 speed and several 5 speed boxes around, right at the start we did an overall length comparison and they are the same length. In terms of the bracket it's only a case of using the front of the maincase as a reference and measure back to the mounting point and adjust accordingly. It was not much movement, couple of inches. We did use the original bracket. You can see the original holes just in front of the bracket in the pics on the previous page.

In terms of starter location, we are going for a Zetec E 2.0 unit, the same bolt pattern as the x-flow, pinto, cvh. but RHS starter exactly the same set-up as the CVH cars.

In terms of overall fit, we'll only validate this once all the drive-line is back together, but the individual checks we have done (front and back) indicate that it will work.

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#119076 - 11/01/13 02:03 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
With any luck I might be able to stop in on Monday 14th.
Depends how the trip into Central London goes... smile
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#119302 - 13/01/13 04:47 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
Update 25 - Doorbars, Dash start and Quick Release steering wheel

Right Christmas is behind us and the temporary halt in proceedings has given way to an all out push to get the cars sorted by May. We've managed to get to the position where we have most of the parts ready to rumble..

Just before Christmas we picked up the Front wings for Woordstock from Sid Watson and also the N/S wings for the blue and white sprint car.

Missprint had for Christmas what every woman wants.. a quick release steering boss along with a Sparco steering wheel.

Following new years we also collected the replacement chassis and cross head from GEE. All these items joined the engines etc. back at the workshop waiting to be fitted.

Doorbars
We ordered a door-bar kit from Techniques. Interested in the bracketry only Techniques provided the details of the bar specifications. We did this as we wanted flexiblity of fitting and also we wanted to powder coat them the same color as the rest of the interior.

The challenge with making the door bars was to be drilling out the large circular slots for the bracket barrels to be welded into... getting both in the same plane (or upright) at both ends..... You can see the challenge in this pic.





We successfully managed to get them sorted though and managed to fabricate and fit the door-bars yesterday. They are now packaged up ready to go to the powerder coater along with the black harness bar.





Next up Dash
Woodstock is going to have a similar dash to the blue and white car. The original instruments will be ditched in favour of the Race Technology Dash 2 with a DL1 GPS Data Logger in conjunction with a basic sensor package and Omex ECU feed.

We had already made a wooden dash blank template and yesterday this was converted into an aluminium blank which will be machined up to be a new dash. Black Carbon Finish vinyl will again be used. It's likely that the dash buttons this time will be completely changed for smarter aluminium units.



Steering wheel
Due to the seating position for Missprint we decided quite quickly not to use a MotaLita steering wheel in favour of a Sparco race unit with a quick-release boss. There-by providing a reasonable amount of room to get in and out. The quick release boss uses a sprung mounted boss on the steering wheel and flanged spigot which you have to weld on the steering collumn. We all know how close the steering wheel is as standard on a Morgan so we will be cutting down the steering collumn, shorting the spigot slightly and welding the two together. This allows the steering wheel to end-up slightly further back than stock.

In order to sensibly weld the spigot and do the necessary cutting we had removed and stripped the steering collumn so it can be mounted in a lathe.

That's it for now.. I must chase up the back axle as it's now holding up all other works!!

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#119310 - 13/01/13 05:01 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1120
Loc: South Warwickshire
Great update, thanks.
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2011 Plus 4

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#119311 - 13/01/13 05:07 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1795
P.S.

We have finalised the color we will be spraying the car. having tested several colors:


  • Porsche Speed Yellow
  • Ferrari Fly Yellow
  • SEAT Yellow
  • Mini Yellow
  • Aston Martin Yellow
  • Lambo Yellow


We've decided on Citroen DS3 Sport Yellow. Having tested it on a larger sheet of metal yesterday and getting all round comments we're set.

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#119334 - 13/01/13 10:31 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Richard - Aus Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 15/01/12
Posts: 1602
Loc: Perth, WA, Australia
Thanks for the update. As interesting as ever.

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#119472 - 15/01/13 07:48 AM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: Richard - Aus]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7181
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
Absolutely.
Unfortunately, I didn't manage to get there yesterday. banghead
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#119557 - 15/01/13 04:05 PM Re: Changing Classes and Engine along with it!!!! [Re: cerealsurfer]
Gambalunga Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 2069
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Originally Posted By: cerealsurfer
P.S.

We have finalised the color we will be spraying the car. having tested several colors:


  • Porsche Speed Yellow
  • Ferrari Fly Yellow
  • SEAT Yellow
  • Mini Yellow
  • Aston Martin Yellow
  • Lambo Yellow


We've decided on Citroen DS3 Sport Yellow. Having tested it on a larger sheet of metal yesterday and getting all round comments we're set.


This one? Very nice smile very Woodstock

_________________________
Peter
Plus 4, Sport White (Ivory) Mulberry trim

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