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#88223 - 12/04/12 09:43 PM Re: The Decline of the Trad !!! [Re: Dean-Royal]
asbojohn Offline
le Asbo du Bling
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 23/07/07
Posts: 2647
Loc: Cambridgeshire
Originally Posted By: deanroyal
A hybrid for work and a V8 to play thumbs

Along with a v2

That represents my current line up, but I'd love a better hybrid! Like a life car.
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Why have one colour when you can have them all wink

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#88224 - 12/04/12 09:44 PM Re: The Decline of the Trad !!! [Re: SpeedMog]
Gambalunga Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 2218
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Phil

Very good points and I agree with all that you, and others have written on the desirability/probability of more advanced Morgan designs.

I still feel however that there is a place for the traditional style of Morgan with less bulk than the new Plus 8. Many have commented in the past that they prefer the narrow style of the 4/4 so there are aesthetic issues involved too.
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Peter
Plus 4, Sport White (Ivory) Mulberry trim

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#88240 - 13/04/12 06:52 AM Re: The Decline of the Trad !!! [Re: Gambalunga]
Wirewheel Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/07/11
Posts: 1137
Loc: South Warwickshire
Originally Posted By: Gambalunga
Phil

Very good points and I agree with all that you, and others have written on the desirability/probability of more advanced Morgan designs.

I still feel however that there is a place for the traditional style of Morgan with less bulk than the new Plus 8. Many have commented in the past that they prefer the narrow style of the 4/4 so there are aesthetic issues involved too.


+1 and don't forget parking issues, bigger is not always better.
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2011 Plus 4

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#88247 - 13/04/12 08:16 AM Re: The Decline of the Trad !!! [Re: Wirewheel]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 7356
Loc: Cheltenham, GLos. UK
+2
And that the new +8 will not fit down my driveway so I could garage it!
There is still very much a requirement for narrower bodied cars.

Other than that, Phil an excellent post thumbs It is very pleasing to see that the idea of whole life cycle is beginning to be taken into account - something I've been banging on about for years...

Cheers,
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

B3808 RTA 51R '76 4/4 Ivory 2 seater
'01 Freelander TD4; '90 Defender 90 SW

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#88269 - 13/04/12 11:33 AM Re: The Decline of the Trad !!! [Re: Jays]
M3W Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 25/03/11
Posts: 521
Loc: Sweden
Originally Posted By: Jays
Originally Posted By: M3W


My guess is that the new Plus 8 are showing the way into the future for the trads. I should not be to surprised if the bonded (and "chicken riveted") aluminum chassie also in a down scaled version will find its way into the 4/4, Plus 4 and Roadster range in a not to distant future. After checking out the Plus 8 platform from a very close distance at the factory visit (inkluding the suspension set-up) I have to say that i am a bit impressed. OK, safety and comfort might not be a trad-buyers first priority but if it was already built in into the construction I should find it as a bonus.



The problem with adopting a chassis like the Aero is cost...the Plus 8 was fine as all it uses is a very slightly modified Aero chassis, so no development costs. I can't see how Morgan could sell the likes of a 4/4 with a similar albeit narrower alloy bonded chassis and similar Aero suspension, at a reasonable price. I don't know what the margins are on the traditionals but the current ladder chassis and basic suspension must quite a low cost and I could imagine the price of a 4/4 rising by £10K- £15K and taking it into a completely unrealistic price bracket.


I love this subject…just have to share some reflexions:

My initial thinking was if the “traditional trad” was not longer possible to produce with its present technical solution (say, because of not fulfilling regulations in safety…and no quick-fixes were possible).

Then there is also a cost in NOT being able to produce and sell cars at all…. Then you must sow to be able to harvest –> probably major redesign (remember the quick fixes with gigantic bumbers on english cars exported to the US in the past sick2)! When I earlier mentioned the "scaling down" of the Plus 8 platform (or technical solution or whatever…”platform” in the car industry is a very wide and misused term) I did not think anything of the actual size of the finished car, more of re-using proven technical solutions.

The Plus 8 chassis/suspension is of course heavily over dimensioned for a 4/4 but a “lighter” bonded aluminium chassis should still work extremely well in my opinion. Suspension parts and geometry are expensive in small batches but why not use what’s on the market – yet again proven solutions, cheap spare parts, easy to service and maintain.

For me it is extremely early to already today say it is not possible due to cost/investments, lets say for instance the chassis ends up being 20% more expensive, but due to its construction 30% less work hour are needed in production (or at Morgan subcontractors). Some other cost might be saved in rust treatment,fittings…in the end also less (hopefully) warranty claims. All of which could be calculated into the total sum.

OK, I might sound optimistic about the future oldgit and about the power of product development but: I am happy to spend my daily working days in a very creative area. It is very often that product development teams get their products “killed” very late in the pd-process (due to function, design, market, competition or very often the too high cost of the product). But after returning to their creative chambers these teams very often come back with a better and more refined product fulfilling or even exceeding all expectations and with maybe up to 10-40% less cost of the product. I am always so amazed when this happens (at least once a month).

That’s the reason why I am so positive about the future and the coming generations of the trad – whatever it consists of under it’s wonderful regulations fulfilling shapes…that I hope will look very much like today.

But until then, let's enjoy our steel framed beauties wine /Tony, still a Mog-virgin, hope to have mine delivered beginning of May (rolled into the paintshop next week).

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#88274 - 13/04/12 12:01 PM Re: The Decline of the Trad !!! [Re: M3W]
Gambalunga Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 2218
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Originally Posted By: M3W
But until then, let's enjoy our steel framed beauties wine /Tony, still a Mog-virgin, hope to have mine delivered beginning of May (rolled into the paintshop next week).

I know that feeling cheers

How is the extras list coming along? I would think that if you send a copy of that photo and ask they would fit the Morgan script badge for you.
_________________________
Peter
Plus 4, Sport White (Ivory) Mulberry trim

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#88278 - 13/04/12 12:39 PM Re: The Decline of the Trad !!! [Re: M3W]
Aeroman Offline
Lord Trois-Roues
Charter Member

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 5761
Loc: In transit...
Originally Posted By: M3W
That’s the reason why I am so positive about the future and the coming generations of the trad – whatever it consists of under it’s wonderful regulations fulfilling shapes…that I hope will look very much like today.
But until then, let's enjoy our steel framed beauties wine /Tony, still a Mog-virgin, hope to have mine delivered beginning of May (rolled into the paintshop next week).

Thanks M3W, an interesting perspective on the issues and one that resonates with me. cheers flag
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Reality is an illusion that occurs due to a lack of wine wine

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#88295 - 13/04/12 05:01 PM Re: The Decline of the Trad !!! [Re: SpeedMog]
howard Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 436
Originally Posted By: SpeedMog
This is where Morgan is actually doing some very interesting industry leading research with materials like Carbon Fibre....... the link with Oak Racing for LMP2 is giving them the access to Carbon technology....


confused2

How do you do research when you have to learn it from someone else?
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Elise R, Starlight 35 and R1200GS

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#88297 - 13/04/12 05:15 PM Re: The Decline of the Trad !!! [Re: howard]
Dean-Royal Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 1851
Loc: UK (up north)
CARBON FIBRE!!!!! gloomy
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#88300 - 13/04/12 05:39 PM Re: The Decline of the Trad !!! [Re: howard]
SpeedMog Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 1694
Loc: Northwich, Cheshire
Originally Posted By: howard
How do you do research when you have to learn it from someone else?

Oxford dictionary definition of research is "the systematic investigation into and study of materials and sources in order to establish facts and reach new conclusions".

Where in that does it say research has to be done by one individual? Ever heard of research partnerships??

Please do not selectively quote me.. I said Magnesium and Carbon Fibre.....
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Phil Egginton

"Think very carefully… because if you ever start, you will never leave it alone"

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