Talk Morgan

High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket

Posted By: MTWV2

High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/08/15 06:34 PM

On my way to Thrill on the Hill 2014, I heard noise from the driving belt at low speed. The next day, at the celebration of the 100th birthday of the Pickersleigh Road Factory party, I had the opportunity to discuss about that with some other owners of Three Wheeler. The wear of the rear wheel aluminum sprocket seemed responsible of the noise.

On my way back to Belgium, I took an appointment with my dealer Brands Hatch Morgans to have the sprocket replaced in September. They had to cancel it, because the part was unavailable at that time.

I try my chance by sending a letter to the factory to claim a warranty replacement. Its now an open secret that some have got some and even for happy few steel ones. Thats incredible how the post services are bad in England. My letter must have been lost, because I didnt receive any reply from the factory.

I was again being left alone with the problem. Till the day I met with a friend who is engineer. He told me that one can be done in far better quality materials. With the help of sophisticated computer programs, the design and all the calculations for strength were done. He opted for top grade of steel with an additional finish treatment to increase strength and smoothness. By the same way he decided to lighten it as much as possible to almost match the weight of the aluminum standard sprocket.

It took time but the final product seemed to me outstanding by the incredibly high level of quality and finish. I put it back to my Three Wheeler. I went to Brands Hatch Morgans Breakfast Club of 18th of July by doing five hundred happy miles in one day. The sprocket looked as I hadnt done any mile with it and as it would last forever in silence.




Posted By: The Austrian

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/08/15 06:46 PM

As the construction calculations have been done and the sprocket has been used successfully: any possibility for others to purchse one?
I hate the squeeking noise from the rear and would spend a couple of to solve the problem

Your sprocket looks great!
Posted By: Oldbill

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/08/15 06:48 PM

Very glad you got it sorted. It looks a wonderful piece of craftmanship.

David cop
Posted By: scott morgan

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/08/15 07:10 PM

Great job ,how much are the sprocket for the rest of us
?
Posted By: Bunny

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/08/15 08:17 PM

I'm also interested as the weight of the factory steel sprocket puts me off. I have been considering going down the SuperMax route but this one looks like it will be a good, reasonably lightweight solution. thumbs
Posted By: deano

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/08/15 08:25 PM

Looks a quality job.
Posted By: charlestkirby

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/08/15 09:04 PM

Im interested... where do I sign.
Posted By: Chunky4/4Racer

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/08/15 09:13 PM

Looks very nice
Posted By: HJP

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/08/15 09:17 PM

I'm interested too !

Perhaps MMC might like to order some and hand them round ....
Posted By: nippymog

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/08/15 09:18 PM

looks very well made , well done to the chap that made it
Posted By: Michael H

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/08/15 09:27 PM

Super Max update:

1,000 miles and not a peep! Looks good, no black dust and tracking true. Weighed in at less than 5 lbs.

At least there appears to be light at the end of the funnel...
Posted By: The Seeker

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 03:17 AM

Originally Posted By scott morgan
Great job ,how much are the sprocket for the rest of us ?

Quote:
I'm also interested as the weight of the factory steel sprocket puts me off. I have been considering going down the SuperMax route but this one looks like it will be a good, reasonably lightweight solution.

Quote:
Im interested... where do I sign.

Quote:
I'm interested too !
Perhaps MMC might like to order some and hand them round ....


Is this where the line starts ? innocent

thumbs cheers
Posted By: Dab of oppo

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 07:20 AM

How much and when?
Posted By: Mikethetrike

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 07:40 AM

How about a group buy.......
Posted By: P964

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 07:49 AM

Add me in too. The antipodes do not figure on the Morgan world map!,
Posted By: Bunny

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 09:09 AM

Looks like an initial batch of 50 sprockets should cover it hide
Posted By: nippymog

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 09:10 AM

Depending on price I could be interested
Posted By: drk

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 12:02 PM

I'm interested too smile
Posted By: DocNik

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 01:26 PM

Me too!
Posted By: R1NGA

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 02:43 PM

OK, I think that's nearly everyone then!

MTWV2 - you could have the basis of a good business here I think. Any idea on whether production of a batch is feasible, or was that truly a one-off?
Posted By: Smaug

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 02:58 PM

Yep,...+1 count me in to... thumbs
Posted By: Mi3Wheeler

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 04:21 PM

Originally Posted By nippymog
Depending on price I could be interested


... hey guys, what's going on in here? Oh well then, a plus one for me too.
Posted By: The Austrian

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 05:42 PM

Hope I am on top of the list as I was the one with the first question!
Posted By: MTWV2

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 06:18 PM

Originally Posted By The Austrian
Hope I am on top of the list as I was the one with the first question!


You were the first to ask for it!

Im pleased that you like the sprocket designed by my friend. The choice to reproduce it or not belongs exclusively to him. I know he is still working on it to improve the design a little further and to save more weight as well. So if there are other ones, theyll be even better than mine. But all is linked to the time needed to manufacture them and to the price. Anyway, I guess it cant be more expensive than the standard product.

Before we decided to have one produced, we had a close look to what was needed and what was available. By reading TM quite often, I knew that there were some options: trying to adapt a HD 1.5 rear sprocket or to choose to have an aluminum sprocket converted to polyurethane by Super Max. In both cases it was a question of number of teeth, 65 instead of 66 and for polyurethane, it has no flange on one side. With the NVH system, the belt is always moving from one side to the other. We even investigated for stronger grade of aluminum. But in the end, steel was the best choice. The front pulley in steel didnt wear on any Three Wheeler. And it saw the belt more often than the big one. Moneywise steel is finally a lot cheaper because it last longer. I cant say how long. I have been stopped in my attempt to do a lot of miles by a big electrical short circuit. The 50A fuse and a 15A have melted down. The Three Wheeler refuses to start anymore and will be brought to BHM in September for repair.
Posted By: hbatts

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 06:29 PM

Let me know where to send the money. That sprocket looks good enough to hang on the wall in a frame
Posted By: PhilipNZ

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/08/15 06:43 PM

Interesting comparison to the new standard steel sprocket

Attached picture image.jpg
Posted By: LarryS

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 13/08/15 12:47 PM

I'm interested as well. Maybe with enough orders, it would be worthwhile to produce a batch. LarryS
Posted By: rolsmith

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 13/08/15 03:27 PM

Sign me up, I'm going to need one soon and its either Supermax or factory steel at this point.
Posted By: wiscos

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 17/08/15 11:32 AM

I will also buy one. Perhaps Brands Hatch Morgan would be interested in selling these? If they are unable to sell them in the UK (due to relationship issues with Morgan) I would be happy to use my business to buy and sell them at no profit.
Posted By: bobo

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 17/08/15 12:21 PM

put me down for one as well!
Posted By: MTWV2

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 17/08/15 03:53 PM

Everyone interested by a supply has received or will receive a PM.
Posted By: Rog G

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 17/08/15 05:23 PM

Depending on price I may be interested so please keep me informed of progress on availability.
Posted By: LarryS

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 17/08/15 05:40 PM

What would be the approximate cost of a Supermax sprocket? LarryS
Posted By: The Austrian

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 17/08/15 05:54 PM

Did not get any reply so far from the designer/producer of the steel sprocket.
Would be very interested on price and a possible supply time indications
Posted By: UEW

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 17/08/15 07:33 PM

I'm interested too
Posted By: nadvys

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 18/08/15 06:58 AM

i heard something around 700 eur + shipping.
Posted By: MTWV2

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 18/08/15 09:05 AM

Originally Posted By nadvys
i heard something around 700 eur + shipping.


The target was to match Morgan price for steel, which is +/- 750.00. The margins are very scarce for a higher level of weight, quality and better finished product.
Posted By: Bunny

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 18/08/15 09:58 AM

Mmmm thinking So now we have a choice!

I've pretty much discounted the MMC steel pulley because of the weight.
According to MichaelH, the Supermax conversion costs $540+p&p, so probably around 375 all in.
I've now been quoted 740E + 30E p&p for the lightweight steel version which works out at around 548.

Longevity:
MMC: Unknown but probably OK
SuperMax: >100K miles - they've never had one wear out yet... Admitedly this is on motorcycles with lower loadings.
Lightweight Steel: Unknown but probably OK

One possible downside with SuperMax is communication. I sent an e-message via their website a couple of weeks ago and haven't had a response yet. tumbleweed I may have to bite the bullet and make an expensive phone call.

Decisions, decisions...
Posted By: Michael H

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 18/08/15 11:29 AM

Originally Posted By Bunny


One possible downside with SuperMax is communication. I sent an e-message via their website a couple of weeks ago and haven't had a response yet. tumbleweed I may have to bite the bullet and make an expensive phone call.

Decisions, decisions...


Try this:

vyvyanross@yahoo.com
Posted By: Bunny

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 18/08/15 11:36 AM

thumbs Thanks!
Posted By: R1NGA

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 18/08/15 03:38 PM

Thank you MTWV2 for letting us know the costs and timescales. I think my only question now would be how the weight compares to that of the Supermax'd alloy version, which if I read it correctly is about 2.5kg?

Anyone know how heavy the MMC steel item is?
Posted By: MTWV2

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 18/08/15 07:02 PM

The special steel sprocket in its last reworked version should only be 1lb heavier than an aluminium one. For 2012 versions, the sprocket come exactly at the same place than the original. But it can be wise for a question of tyre clearance to upgrade to the later black model of hub. The report of Calum (RedThree) can help somewhat to understand everything.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1776...%20Sprocket.pdf
Posted By: Fabi0000

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 19/08/15 07:59 AM

MMC Steel : 13.2 lb = 6 Kg
MMC Alloy : 6 lb = 2.7 Kg
Light Steel : 7 lb = 3.2 Kg

I don't know the weight of the supermax one
Posted By: Bunny

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 19/08/15 10:31 AM

Just for the record, I have access to an alloy pulley complete with both guide rings so I popped it on the kitchen scales and it weighs exaclly 2.82Kg (6 lb 3 3/8oz or 6.22 lb). I guess it would weigh slightly less if it was Supermax'd due to metal being replaced by the poly material.



Posted By: Michael H

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 19/08/15 12:20 PM

That's right. When I sent the pulley to Super Max, it came back weighing in at 4 lbs 12 oz. with a built in wheel side flange.
Posted By: charlestkirby

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 19/08/15 02:56 PM

The mass is not the most crucial paramter, it is the moment of inertia that is most important for a wheel.
The further the mass is from the centre of the wheel, the more influential it is. This is governed by a square rule. There is therefore much more interest to me in reducing the amount of material near the rim than ornately removing material from the spokes near the axle.
In this sense the plastic refurb jobs become more appealing. As the outer material is less dense

back of the envelope calculations tell me that for a uniform sprocket, it has half as much energy in the form of rotational energy over and above what it had from its travel in a straight line.

The fact that these sprockets have most of their mass on the outside means the figure is likely to be greater. But its hard to tell without the cad file.


Anyone who is into pedal bikes knows that the shape of aluminium items are very different to steel even though they do the same thing. I see these steel sprockets have thin spokes and there fore must have a higher proportion of their mass on the outside.
hence the added weight of steel preludes to a much worse problem of weight distribution.
Posted By: MTWV2

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 19/08/15 05:26 PM

All that has been taken into account in the design process. The sprocket has been drawn on computer with very sophisticated and accurate programs to avoid any weakness. It can match all the characteristics of the engine through the gearbox ratio. It's still possible to go further in the weight reduction and kinetic efficiency, but at what cost? You have to opt for a good balance!
Posted By: RedThree

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 19/08/15 05:37 PM

I wasn't overly concerned about the extra rotating mass and simply hoped that the extra unsprung mass wouldn't be noticeable on the road. It wasn't. On the track against a stopwatch it might make a difference but on the road...
When I raced bikes there were some people that reckoned that heavier wheels (so higher rotating mass) actually gave more progressive handling than the very trendy and expensive lightweight wheels when it came to how they spun up and then came back down to full grip from wheel spin. This being offset by the change to unsprung mass and all the strange gyroscopic effects on a leaning bike. In fairness this argument was mainly put forward by people that couldn't afford a set of Dymags. spend
Posted By: MTWV2

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 19/08/15 05:51 PM

At first, I asked for a Morgan steel one. But it has been only available for some happy few. That's why my friend offered me to have one done. If Morgan had been able to supply me with one, you would certainly never have heared anything about mine.
Posted By: Bunny

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 19/08/15 08:57 PM

Originally Posted By Bunny
According to MichaelH, the Supermax conversion costs $540+p&p, so probably around 375 all in.

I've now had a reply from SuperMax. The cost of the conversion is $535 but fully insured shiping to the UK is estimated at $100 taking the total to around $635 or 405.
Another consideration is that they don't have a mould for a 66 tooth overlay so they fit a 65 tooth one. I'm guessing that the change of gearing isn't noticable on the road although the engine will be working slightly harder. MichaelH?
Turnaround is around 3 days in the machine shop.

Originally Posted By Bunny
One possible downside with SuperMax is communication. I sent an e-message via their website a couple of weeks ago and haven't had a response yet.

The emails sent via their website had ended up in their spam folder! Therefore, I advise using the direct email address for Vyvyan Ross supplied by MichaelH if you're interested.
Posted By: Michael H

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 19/08/15 10:02 PM

My Super Max wheel has the number "65" molded on it and I have yet to detect any difference in speed. The speedometer, like the fuel gauge, still lie. They are in cahoots. Go with what they have. My dealer has offered on numerous occasions to adjust the speedometer to reflect reality and I have refused. It is not important to me. What's behind me is not important, either.
Posted By: Fabi0000

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 21/08/15 09:00 AM

The mass repartition of the lightweight steel sprocket has been done to be quite the same of the aluminium sprocket. The main problem you can have with a heavier sprocket is not a problem of acceleration or "power" the engine has a great torque it's a problem of suspension. In fact with an heavier sprocket you increase the non suspended weight and in some case the suspension have some difficulties to work.
And the last question is why travel 3kg (6.6lb - 212 oz) more? You know how many beer it is? laugh
Posted By: Bunny

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 15/09/15 12:57 PM

I decided to go the SuperMax route in the end and have just received the modified sprocket.









The weight of the modified item is 2.02Kg (4 lb 7 1/8oz) compared to 2.82Kg (6 lb 3 3/8oz) before modification.

The costs added up like this:
Shipping of 'spare' alloy pulley to me from a friendly TMer: 20
Shipping to Supermax: 36.43
Supermax Process: ($535) 347.51
Return shipping: ($70) 45.47
Total: 449.41 GBP

I'm looking forward to fitting it in a few weeks' time when some other issues have been taken care of!
Posted By: nadvys

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 15/09/15 01:30 PM

nice, but where is the second flange gone?
Posted By: Michael H

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 15/09/15 01:57 PM

Originally Posted By nadvys
nice, but where is the second flange gone?


Gone the way of all flesh. Don't need it. I have the Super Max installed and the belt tracks beautifully and stays put. It barely hits the flange and rides without overhanging the teeth. This is with the original fixed bevel box.
Posted By: Dab of oppo

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 15/09/15 05:10 PM

How long did it take?

Looks like I will have to go this route over the winter as my alloy pulley is now louder than everything else put together.
Posted By: Dab of oppo

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 01/11/15 04:00 PM

Well SORNED it yesterday and ripped it to bits today for the big winter clean and service.

Rear pulley off so it can be shipped to Supermax in the near future.

7500 miles and the teeth are almost 50% worn out.

Attached picture IMG_2629.jpg
Attached picture IMG_2628.jpg
Posted By: planenut

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 01/11/15 08:54 PM


Agreed, pretty worn. A new pulley will work wonders. I bet the belt still looks like new.

Posted By: Dab of oppo

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 01/11/15 08:57 PM

Sure is, it's like new.
Posted By: Bunny

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 03/11/15 09:15 AM

Originally Posted By Dab of oppo
How long did it take?

Looks like I will have to go this route over the winter as my alloy pulley is now louder than everything else put together.
Quicker than I was expecting - I had it back around 2 1/2 weeks from sending.
It's now fitted. Just have to re-check the belt tension as I think it may still be a tad tight.
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 03/11/15 09:39 AM

Originally Posted By Bunny
Originally Posted By Dab of oppo
How long did it take?

Looks like I will have to go this route over the winter as my alloy pulley is now louder than everything else put together.
Quicker than I was expecting - I had it back around 2 1/2 weeks from sending.
It's now fitted. Just have to re-check the belt tension as I think it may still be a tad tight.


How did you deal with the customs situation on this? I presume you should only pay duty on the cost of the modification and not the whole value of the modified sprocket. Also you don't want the US company to have to pay duty on the original sprocket, given that it will be re-exported.
Posted By: Bunny

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 03/11/15 11:16 AM

Originally Posted By WilsonLaidlaw
Originally Posted By Bunny
Originally Posted By Dab of oppo
How long did it take?

Looks like I will have to go this route over the winter as my alloy pulley is now louder than everything else put together.
Quicker than I was expecting - I had it back around 2 1/2 weeks from sending.
It's now fitted. Just have to re-check the belt tension as I think it may still be a tad tight.


How did you deal with the customs situation on this? I presume you should only pay duty on the cost of the modification and not the whole value of the modified sprocket. Also you don't want the US company to have to pay duty on the original sprocket, given that it will be re-exported.
I didn't knowingly have to deal with any customs issues either sending or receiving. I used the description 'Used aluminium belt drive sprocket for refurbishment' on the paperwork when sending it and assigned a value of £50GBP. This kept the shipping insurance down. I actually shipped via Royal Mail - can't remember why - but it seemed to work....
Posted By: The Austrian

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 03/11/15 01:27 PM

What about the noise level?
Significant reduction of whining I hope
Posted By: SBM

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 03/11/15 01:47 PM

Originally Posted By The Austrian
What about the noise level?
Significant reduction of whining I hope


People always whine about the M3W.. grin2
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 03/11/15 03:13 PM

Originally Posted By Bunny

I didn't knowingly have to deal with any customs issues either sending or receiving. I used the description 'Used aluminium belt drive sprocket for refurbishment' on the paperwork when sending it and assigned a value of £50GBP. This kept the shipping insurance down. I actually shipped via Royal Mail - can't remember why - but it seemed to work....


Many thanks for info. I just now have to decide on whether to go the lightweight steel or Super Max route.
Posted By: Bunny

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 03/11/15 06:35 PM

Originally Posted By The Austrian
What about the noise level?
Significant reduction of whining I hope
Yup. No whining!
Posted By: Michael H

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 03/11/15 07:05 PM

Originally Posted By The Austrian
What about the noise level?
Significant reduction of whining I hope


No whining at all. Only other noise coming directly from the belt/sprocket is that of the belt whirring around. This has increased due to running the belt much looser than Morgan sets them. The noise is not that much, either. You should be able to twist the belt up to 90 degrees and have a deflection of 1.5 to 2.0mm. This also eases the sound coming from the bevel box as it is most pronounced when the belt is too tight.
Posted By: Dab of oppo

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 06/11/15 10:22 PM

I spoke to a very nice lady called Vyvyan ar Supermax today and my worn out chocolate sprocket will be in post to them tomorrow.
Posted By: Dab of oppo

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 07/12/15 05:57 PM

From this:

Attached picture IMG_2629.jpg
Attached picture IMG_2628.jpg

Description: to this:
Attached picture IMG_2671.jpg
Posted By: P964

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 08/12/15 06:13 AM

Hi D of O

Thinking that i might be close to doing something like this.
It is just coming up to summer though and i do want to drive in the nicer weather.
Do you have the older sized rear hub ? Has anyone used this style new sprocket with the older hub which has the belt running off centre?
Posted By: atalante83

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 08/12/15 06:24 AM

Nice job
Tell us your feeling on the road.
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 08/12/15 07:54 AM

Fabian sent me one of his lightweight steel sprockets from Belgium. You would have thought this was courier proof, especially when as well packed as it was but no. It looks to have been hit with a spike of some sort with a huge amount of energy, which has severely damaged one of the flanges and may have cracked one of the teeth. In fact I semi-jokingly said to Fabian that it looks like it has been hit by a rifle bullet. It is going to have to go back to Belgium for X-ray examination and dependant on the results of that, repair or replacement. I am assuming that I will have to replace the hub with the later type since mine is a very early car.

Attached picture Sprocket 1.jpg
Attached picture Sprocket 2.jpg
Posted By: HJP

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 08/12/15 08:27 AM

Blimey ! Can't imagine how that happened .
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 08/12/15 12:28 PM

Originally Posted By HJP
Blimey ! Can't imagine how that happened .


The only answer I could come up with was a rifle bullet, given that the edges have partially melted and the shattering cracks radiating outwards. As someone who has been rifle shooting for close to 50 years, with everything from .17" Hornet up to .577" Nitro Express, I know what a bullet strike looks like.

Wilson
Posted By: nadvys

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 08/12/15 01:21 PM

coming from Belgium these days, you would not be surprised...
Posted By: Dab of oppo

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 08/12/15 09:22 PM

Hi P
My hub is black so I presume it is the the later variety. I'll post some pictures when it's fitted, probably after Christmas now though.
Posted By: Matty

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 09/12/15 07:24 PM

Are you sure thats not aluminium
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 09/12/15 09:34 PM

The sprocket itself is steel, only the flanges are aluminium. Whatever hit it has smeared the aluminium over one steel tooth. I am just a bit concerned, as I can see what looks like a line on that tooth, that it has cracked from whatever the mighty impact was, that caused this. As we are assuming that DPD couriers will pay for a total loss and I am in no rush, as my M3W is in storage until April, why mess around and take a risk. A replacement is the sensible option. It looks like another forum member's sprocket was in the same truck or depot and his damage looks worse than mine.

Posted By: Bunny

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 10/12/15 10:36 AM

Originally Posted By WilsonLaidlaw
I am assuming that I will have to replace the hub with the later type since mine is a very early car.
The later (black) hub offsets the rear wheel another 5mm away from the sprocket. The sprocket itself stays in the same position in relation to the BB drive sprocket. I suspect that if you fitted the lightweight steel sprocket without the later hub then the drive belt would rub against the tyre.

p.s. It looks like someone really doesn't want you to fit the new sprocket! shocked2
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/02/16 12:18 PM

My new sprocket is starting to be machined this week. I will go and collect it from Fabian this time, on the way down to my French house in April. Not risking those pesky couriers again! Esprit Competition in Aubagne is ordering a late type black rear hub for me, as I am assuming my very early car (May 2012) will have a silver one. I have a pair of the heavy duty FAG sealed bearings sitting in my French house, which I will get fitted in the new rear hub, rather than transferring over the original NSK ones, which are exhibiting a bit of wear and movement.

Esprit are also ordering a steering comfort kit and a Centa compensator. I cannot advance order the chassis strengthening kit, as apparently there are two different chassis (presumably two different jigs used). In typical incompetent fashion, Morgan didn't record which chassis type was fitted to which car, so it has to be measured to find out. As the car is hidden away in secure storage at the moment, it is inaccessible to do this.

Wilson
Posted By: nippymog

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/02/16 12:45 PM

Nice upgrades.
Do you have a part number for the FAG bearings ?
Posted By: nadvys

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/02/16 01:53 PM

7205-B-2RS-TVP
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/02/16 02:11 PM

Originally Posted By nadvys
7205-B-2RS-TVP


Took the words out of my mouth (or finger) oldgit

Bearing King carry them in the UK. Good prices and service for me and sent them to France very happily.
Posted By: nippymog

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/02/16 02:41 PM

Cheers all
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 04/04/16 07:28 AM

Someone posted a step by step pictorial instructions on removing and changing the rear hub on an M3W, including a comparison picture of the original silver and new black rear hubs. I want to send a link to this picture to Esprit Competition in Aubagne in France, so that they understand why the rear hub needs changing on my 2012 car for the new lightweight steel rear drive sprocket. I should be very grateful if anyone could steer me in the direction of these pictures.

Thanks Wilson
Posted By: RichardV6

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 04/04/16 07:37 AM

Originally Posted By WilsonLaidlaw
Someone posted a step by step pictorial instructions on removing and changing the rear hub on an M3W, including a comparison picture of the original silver and new black rear hubs. I want to send a link to this picture to Esprit Competition in Aubagne in France, so that they understand why the rear hub needs changing on my 2012 car for the new lightweight steel rear drive sprocket. I should be very grateful if anyone could steer me in the direction of these pictures.

Thanks Wilson


Check out this thread, particularly the DropBox download link by the OP since I think that's what you are looking for.
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 04/04/16 10:00 AM

Originally Posted By Richard Wood

Check out this thread, particularly the DropBox download link by the OP since I think that's what you are looking for.


Richard,

Many thanks. That was exactly what I needed. Picture of rear hubs duly sent off to Esprit Competition.

Wilson
Posted By: Fabi0000

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 13/05/16 12:43 PM

Hi everybody, I still have 2 sprockets in stock and ready to ship. Someone might be interested.
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 13/05/16 02:22 PM

.....and I can confirm how beautifully made the latest version super lightweight ones from Fabian are. Now if only Morgan would get their finger out and send the hub to France, which has been "in the post" for over a month to my local Morgan dealer, with my other ordered bits.

The annoying thing is that I had someone at the Morgan factory 2 weeks ago, picking up a new Plus 8 to go out to France by truck and he said he was happy to collect my parts (rear hub, steering comfort kit and Centa compensator) and bring them out to me. Morgan claimed they had already been shipped but it seems they were telling porkies, as my local dealer has received no dispatch notice or invoice and two weeks later they still have not arrived. What a way to run a company!
Posted By: CasaLobo

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 14/05/16 01:57 AM

Just left you a PM, Fabian; very interested in one if still available. Thanks
Posted By: Draggin

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 15/05/16 02:21 AM

Price?
Posted By: Timothy

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 13/07/16 01:25 AM

Did anything come of this? I would like to get one..
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 13/07/16 06:46 AM

I have one of Fabian's sprockets and hopefully it will be being fitted next week. It is beautifully made. There was a bit of a delay, as the couriers damaged the first one on the way from Belgium to the UK.

Wilson
Posted By: R1NGA

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 13/07/16 09:42 AM

I have mine too - on the shelf waiting for the current one (replaced at 5,000 miles and now at 7,600) to wear out. Which I doubt will be too much longer.....
Posted By: Fabi0000

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 07/06/18 08:01 AM

Hello everybody, just to tell you i'll start a new batch of 3.0 Steel sprocket. I need a minimum of 5 for cost reduction. At the moment there are already 2 orders. If you are interested just PM me.
Posted By: R1NGA

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 07/06/18 02:48 PM

Just a quick but blatant plug for Fabian's steel sprocket workmanship - it is truly outstanding and I am very happy with mine. It was fitted by my local Morgan Dealer and their service/parts folks couldn't believe the quality of the sprocket nor the weight, which is many fold lighter than the ship's anchor that MMC use right now. JFBI I say, even if it's for long-term stock (or indeed for a display case exhibit)....
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 07/06/18 03:10 PM

I too am very happy with Fabian's sprocket. I just wish the same could be said about my rear wheel bearings. The new bearings lasted less than 400km. I bought another set of new FAG bearings and got them sent from England (GLS took two weeks to transport them from Paris Airport to the Paul Ricard circuit where my sick M3W is lying) but they seem to allow far too much movement at the rear wheel, so we are reverting from the FAG angular contact to the original deep track SKF. I have suggested fixing the bearings in the hub with Loctite 620.

Just to remind folk, if you are going to update an early M3W with Fabian's sprocket, you need to change to a late type black rear hub from the original silver coloured one.

Wilson
Posted By: PaulV

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 07/06/18 07:27 PM

Originally Posted By Fabi0000
Hello everybody, just to tell you i'll start a new batch of 3.0 Steel sprocket. I need a minimum of 5 for cost reduction. At the moment there are already 2 orders. If you are interested just PM me.

Good stuff Fabian. You might want to remind folks what the price would be for a 1 of 5 order.
Posted By: Llap

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 07/06/18 10:10 PM

Sounds great. Are you from Europe?
Posted By: Fabi0000

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 08/06/18 01:23 PM

Originally Posted By Llap

Good stuff Fabian. You might want to remind folks what the price would be for a 1 of 5 order.

Thank you ! The price is 740€ and 30€ for the shipping, it's exactly the same price than 2 years ego. No inflation here ;-)

Originally Posted By Llap
Sounds great. Are you from Europe?

Yes, from Belgium.
Posted By: 2Sharp

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/06/20 03:20 PM

Surprised this thread has not gotten more life. I would be interested in picking up a lighter sprocket. I suspect we may need a couple of us to bundle an order so post here if you are interested. Saving weight on rotating mass seems like a good idea to me.
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/06/20 03:28 PM

Just to encourage folks, I have now done around 3000 miles on my Belgian lightweight steel sprocket and it looks as if it was put on yesterday. With Covid-19 and my M3W in storage in the south of France, I worry that I might not get to use it at all this year.

Wilson
Posted By: R1NGA

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/06/20 04:43 PM

And to double-encourage as it were, it seems that my service notes show that mine has actually been on for 7,500 miles now, driven through all sorts of weathers, yet still looks like new. A truely outstanding piece of kit, although I am not sure if the very talented Fabian still frequents this Forum......
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/06/20 05:02 PM

Fabian's user name on the forum is MTWV2 You could try a PM. I have just checked and I seem to have lost his contact details. I visited him in Belgium to collect mine.

Wilson
Posted By: Chocodent

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 11/06/20 09:55 PM

I’m clearly interested for one piece if a new batch is planned. Keep me in the loop 😬
Posted By: Fabi0000

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/06/20 12:47 PM

Hi everyone, as i'm feeling an interest about my beautiful light weight steel sprocket, I would like to start the production of a new batch. Everyone who's interested can send me a PM for a quotation (I'm trying to do the same price than 5 years ago, juste need a confirmation for the treatment).
As the last time, I need at least a batch of 5, for cost reduction, because the treatment is very expensive.
For information the first one is now mounted for 5 years and still as new.
Posted By: R1NGA

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 12/06/20 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Fabi0000
Hi everyone, as i'm feeling an interest about my beautiful light weight steel sprocket, I would like to start the production of a new batch. Everyone who's interested can send me a PM for a quotation (I'm trying to do the same price than 5 years ago, juste need a confirmation for the treatment).
As the last time, I need at least a batch of 5, for cost reduction, because the treatment is very expensive.
For information the first one is now mounted for 5 years and still as new.


Hi Fabian - good to hear from you again :-)
Posted By: Fabi0000

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 30/06/20 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by R1NGA
Originally Posted by Fabi0000
Hi everyone, as i'm feeling an interest about my beautiful light weight steel sprocket, I would like to start the production of a new batch. Everyone who's interested can send me a PM for a quotation (I'm trying to do the same price than 5 years ago, juste need a confirmation for the treatment).
As the last time, I need at least a batch of 5, for cost reduction, because the treatment is very expensive.
For information the first one is now mounted for 5 years and still as new.


Hi Fabian - good to hear from you again :-)


Originally Posted by R1NGA
And to double-encourage as it were, it seems that my service notes show that mine has actually been on for 7,500 miles now, driven through all sorts of weathers, yet still looks like new. A truely outstanding piece of kit, although I am not sure if the very talented Fabian still frequents this Forum......


Thank you Phil for your feedback ! Good to read you you again too !
Posted By: Rich Elson

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 30/06/20 02:09 PM

I would be interested
Posted By: 2Sharp

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 30/06/20 02:26 PM

I am definitely in as well.
Posted By: IMHO

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 30/06/20 04:13 PM

In October I’m taking my engine to have Phil’s excellent Centa drive mods fitted to replace my HD style Cush drive, so might as well have the works....... please count me in Fabian.
Posted By: Erwin G

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 30/06/20 08:43 PM

I want one top.
Where are you locaties in Belgium? I am living in Belgium top.
Posted By: Fabi0000

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 27/07/20 09:43 AM

Hi Everybody !

We started the production last week. You still can order your sprocket.

Just leave me a PM
Posted By: IMHO

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 27/07/20 11:48 AM

Done! happy3
Posted By: Lance

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 27/07/20 12:52 PM

How much are they??
Posted By: IMHO

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 27/07/20 02:43 PM

EUR 740 plus EUR 30 for shipping.
Posted By: 2Sharp

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 27/07/20 05:24 PM

Thanks Fabian. I received your pm and will figure out how to send you the money.
Posted By: Fabi0000

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 31/08/20 10:28 AM

Hi everybody I hope you stay safe, just to keep you informed about the production.
We had a problem with the teeth cutting machine, the replacement of the part took more time than usual.
Due to covid the technician was not authorized to travel to Belgium, so we did it by ourselves.
Everything is ok now and the production has restarted. I'll post a picture today or tomorrow.

It's still possible to order, but it's the last call, by the end of the week all orders will be impossible till next batch.
Best regards !
Posted By: Fabi0000

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 16/09/20 08:14 AM

Hello Everybody,
Here some pictures of the 4th first sprockets sent today morning (these made before the machine failure).

[Linked Image]

Here you can see one after machining

[Linked Image]



And here the packaging

[Linked Image]



The 4 last ones are in manufacturing, after that they will go to the treatment. I expect to receive it in 10 days.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: R1NGA

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 16/09/20 08:32 AM

Great pictures Fabian - as I said in one of my original posts, I was close to mounting the sprocket on the wall to look at instead of to the Morgan to make it drive, so lovely are they to touch and feel :-).
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 16/09/20 09:05 AM

I hope nobody shoots at the boxes en route as happened to my first one from Fabian. It arrived with a number of bullet scars on it. You can see the rim actually melted and distorted, where the bullet struck and there are shock cracks radiating out from the strike point. A number of teeth were also struck and Fabian feared that they could have stress cracks in them so replaced the whole sprocket.

[Linked Image]

Wilson
Posted By: R1NGA

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 16/09/20 10:13 AM

Outrageous - welcome to the sometimes bizarre world of the international courier services....
Posted By: Fabi0000

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 16/09/20 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by WilsonLaidlaw
I hope nobody shoots at the boxes en route as happened to my first one from Fabian. It arrived with a number of bullet scars on it. You can see the rim actually melted and distorted, where the bullet struck and there are shock cracks radiating out from the strike point. A number of teeth were also struck and Fabian feared that they could have stress cracks in them so replaced the whole sprocket.


Good to read you Wilson ! Yes I don't know what they did with your sprocket ! Maybe Clays shooting... Fortunately we found a solution !


Originally Posted by R1NGA
Great pictures Fabian - as I said in one of my original posts, I was close to mounting the sprocket on the wall to look at instead of to the Morgan to make it drive, so lovely are they to touch and feel :-).


Thanks Phil !
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 16/09/20 03:53 PM

Waved goodbye to my M3W for the winter, as some of the staff from the storage I use near St Tropez, came to pick it up today. It behaved pretty well this year apart from a failed Lambda sensor or sensors but it was still drivable and a fairly easy repair using the Bosch universal Lambdas. I am having to go back to the UK early this for some medical attention, which is going to be complicated by 14 days quarantine and then that a Covid test is required before I go into hospital. The Covid test is looking very difficult unless the hospital can arrange it.

Wilson
Posted By: LightSpeed

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 16/09/20 11:27 PM

Hope you come of of hospital better than you went in...
Posted By: atalante83

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 17/09/20 03:11 PM

Good job
Waiting for seeing It
Posted By: Fabi0000

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 14/10/20 01:56 PM

Black Adder is the winner, he's the first one of the second batch to receive his sprocket. happy3
Posted By: RedThree

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 15/10/20 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Fabi0000
Black Adder is the winner, he's the first one of the second batch to receive his sprocket. happy3

and mine just arrived too! cheers
Posted By: Dr.T

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 15/10/20 08:59 PM

I have also recieved my sprocket. Will keep it as a mantle piece until next fall, I think😜
Posted By: atalante83

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 16/10/20 04:53 AM

Mine to
Nice made
Posted By: SOLMorgan

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 16/10/20 08:52 AM

Oh well I just fitted a Supermax sprocket maybe I should save up for one of these too
Posted By: Fabi0000

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 05/11/20 09:20 AM

Hello everybody !

Just to tell you I made one sprocket more in case of one is damaged during the shipment. As all sprocket are arrived this one is available.

First arrived first served ! ;-)
Posted By: Fabi0000

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 16/11/20 09:49 PM

It's sold. It's still possible to order but it will take longer. PM me if needed.
Posted By: Bobajobbob

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 21/04/21 10:09 PM

This thread has been quiet for a while but if the sprockets are still available I would be interested.
Posted By: Noah

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 21/05/21 06:56 AM

The first solution that come to my mind was to hard anodize the aluminum sprockets.

That creates a layer of wear-resistant ceramic (aluminum oxide, far harder than steel) a bit less than 0.1 mm thickness.
Posted By: Chris99

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 21/05/21 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Noah
The first solution that come to my mind was to hard anodize the aluminum sprockets.

That creates a layer of wear-resistant ceramic (aluminum oxide, far harder than steel) a bit less than 0.1 mm thickness.



The MMC aluminium sprockets are hard anodized but this wears through in a few thousand miles.

They changed to a steel sprocket in early 2015
Posted By: Bobajobbob

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 21/05/21 01:04 PM

I just bit the bullet and updated my rear sprocket to steel. If you haven’t done it yet then make it your first upgrade. It really is a night and day improvement. My car had 6000miles on the original and it was making horrible noises and it always felt like something was grinding both accelerating and lifting off the throttle. All that was resolved with new sprocket and car is now taught, grind and wine free.
Posted By: Bitsobrits

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 21/05/21 02:59 PM

Does anyone have a junk alloy sprocket they would want to part with? Wanting to have a spare SuperMax sprocket made.
Posted By: Noah

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 21/05/21 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Chris99
[/quote]

The MMC aluminum sprockets are hard anodized but this wears through in a few thousand miles.





That's very surprising, if true, as hard anodize (Type III) has twice the wear resistance of case hardened steel.

My guess is that Morgan mis-specified Type I or II, or the suppliers misread the drawings, or just did a bad job of it.
Posted By: WilsonLaidlaw

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 21/05/21 04:57 PM

I have one sitting down at my house in France, that you would be very welcome to (only done 5k km) but not even sure I am going to able to get there at all this year. I am currently tied to the UK by the need for regular hospital visits for at least a few weeks more, even if Covid was not making it very difficult to get to France and back. France is possibly going to permit UK visitors from next week, subject the Indian variant not taking off over the week-end but of course, there would still be quarantine to deal with on the way back.

Wilson
Posted By: Knucklefreak

Re: High grade of steel specialy made rear sprocket - 21/05/21 05:48 PM

I have wondered about the anodize wearing out myself. Harleys have used anodized pulleys for years without
problems. Also used for aftermarket primary belt drives and high performance chain drive sprockets. We made
press dies out of anodized aluminum and formed thousands of parts without wearing out dies.
© 2022 Talk Morgan - Morgan Sports Car Discussion Forum, Community and News