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Spax adjustable set-up.

Posted By: RicHardy

Spax adjustable set-up. - 15/03/17 09:36 PM

I have just had a nice new shiny set of Spax adjustable shocks fitted to my 3-wheeler. Having no experience in setting up adjustable suspension I would be interested in the experience of anyone who has these fitted and how best to go about finding the best set-up for me.

Thanks

Richard
Posted By: Draggin

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 16/03/17 12:10 AM

Im glued to this one, mine are in boxes at the moment.
Posted By: KenShapiro

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 16/03/17 12:15 AM

Originally Posted By Draggin
Im glued to this one, mine are in boxes at the moment.


That's the best place for them. They are already adjusted for that application.
Posted By: Inge

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 16/03/17 03:02 AM

I recommend any race car suspension book. Shock settings is one of those things that is a large part black art, especially on a 3 wheeler. It depends on what you are looking for on any given conditions. Example , on a rough road, soft is good as the shock will let the suspension rise and fall quickly with the bumps. Or on a smooth road, a stiff setting will give you crisper handling as the car has less tendency to roll and dive with sudden inputs such as turning and braking. Mostly you will need to just try different sittings and see what feels best for your driving style. I recommend starting soft, as did Colin Chapman with his Lotuses.
Posted By: greenteagod

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 16/03/17 04:35 AM

What Inge said, and not so much the commentary from people who think bone stock is perfect and pooh pooh anyone who wants different.

As in any application where you're dealing with coil overs they are adjustable so the driver can tune them to their preference. I also agree with starting them dialed out so they offer the most amount of dampening, then take them in until you feel they're just right. Which is usually found by when they get too harsh and backing them off a bit.

Also it's handy to make note of the adjustments on them, either by measuring distance with calipers or counting full turns, etc. I know some guys who will have a daily driving setting on their coil overs, but then stiffen them up for more vigorous track days. That is part of the benefit of the adjustable shocks.
Posted By: Inge

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 16/03/17 01:36 PM

After reviewing GTG's comments, I may have misspoke. My comments on soft vs. hard are based on the assumption that you can change the damping on the shock via a small screw on the side of the shock, or by pushing the rod all the way in and turning it slightly to move an internal valve (ie Carrera). The really old Spax shocks that were on my car had the adjusting screw on the side. Regarding springs, if you want to change the spring rate, you need to change springs. This will give you a softer ride or harder ride. The perch adjustment on a coil over is used to set ride height, and weight distribution on a 4 wheel car. You will not change the weight distribution on a 3 wheel car. The spring rate is constant no matter where you set the perch. If you screw the perch up tighter it simply raises the car, it does not compress the spring further to give a harder ride.
The soft vs. hard damping and soft vs. hard spring rate are 2 different animals, but work together to give different handling characteristics and grip for a given road condition.
Posted By: Draggin

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 16/03/17 04:46 PM

Inge right on all counts, the spax adjustibles have a ride height adjustment, and a knob for adjusting the amount of damping.
Posted By: RJW

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 16/03/17 07:50 PM

May be a daft question but which way does the spax adjustment work, Is it screw in clockwise for a firmer ride or screw in anti clockwise for this effect? Just wondering where to start.
Posted By: Draggin

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 16/03/17 08:15 PM

http://www.spaxperformance.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/KryptonDampers-OwnerHandbook_5.pdf
Posted By: Dr.T

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 16/03/17 08:18 PM

Am I wrong in believing that all these Aero sport items(dampers exhaust etc.) can be ordered and installed on the car from the factory? Or are they aftermarket parts, to be installed by the dealers?

A morgan dealer/shop should be able to provide the base-line settings if they are not already set in the box.
Posted By: RJW

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 16/03/17 09:33 PM

Thanks Draggin, that's a very useful link.
Posted By: WarBird

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 17/03/17 12:30 AM

Richard, you will get plenty chance to fine tune your Spax settings at Curborough drive
Can't remember how many clicks, but mine are set quite firm at the front, and quite soft at the rear. If its a wet track I've found that setting the rear shocks to their softest has given improved grip

I've always had the ride height set at 150mm from the bodywork to the floor, but think I'm now going to experiment setting it a little lower for track use.

Tyre pressures seem to make quite a difference and are definitely worth experimenting with.

I'm no expert in any way shape or form, but have found that tyre and suspension settings come down to personal preference at the end of the day....so start experimenting!!
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 17/03/17 10:28 AM

Originally Posted By WarBird
Richard, you will get plenty chance to fine tune your Spax settings at Curborough drive
Can't remember how many clicks, but mine are set quite firm at the front, and quite soft at the rear. If its a wet track I've found that setting the rear shocks to their softest has given improved grip

I've always had the ride height set at 150mm from the bodywork to the floor, but think I'm now going to experiment setting it a little lower for track use.

Tyre pressures seem to make quite a difference and are definitely worth experimenting with.

I'm no expert in any way shape or form, but have found that tyre and suspension settings come down to personal preference at the end of the day....so start experimenting!!


I have no racing experience but road use leaves me with the impression that spring rates are on the soft side at rear compared to front, giving the surpringly comfortable ride.

You certainly wouldn't want that single rear wheel loosing contact with the road surface too often though, so maybe soft damping rates to match make sense.
Posted By: RicHardy

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 17/03/17 08:29 PM

Thanks for all the advice. Think I'll leave things as they are until Curborough. Hopefully we will have a dry day and I'll be able to experiment a bit.
Posted By: greenteagod

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 17/03/17 11:23 PM

Either way, comments from your testing and figuring things out would be good. Especially with some photos or measurements showing where you dialed it in. It's subjective to driving stile and driver, but always good to have a baseline for what someone thinks of X setting.
Posted By: Draggin

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 14/04/18 10:41 PM

I finally have all four adjustable dampers installed, would anyone care to share what their settings are?
Posted By: Dab of oppo

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 15/04/18 06:48 AM

Start in the middle, go for a drive and if it feels too soft at either end give it 2 clicks stiffer or if too hard 2 clicks softer and go for another drive.

Keep going until its how you want it.

Make a note of the set up.

Then you can back it off a bit for a wet set up or stiffen it up at the back if you are running 2 up.

There is no quick solution, thats why race teams spend so much time testing.

Worth the effort though.
Posted By: Draggin

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 15/04/18 06:14 PM

The instructions that come with the shocks say to start at the softest setting and dial up four clicks at a time from there until it seems worse and then back off click at a time. I too have sent mine at the middle setting to start though.
Posted By: KenShapiro

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 15/04/18 06:32 PM

I have chosen to stick with my stock shocks, saving time to spend driving my M3W, riding my Beemer, lying in my hammock and making love to my girlfriend. The money I’m saving will be spent on shrimp and cigars.
Posted By: twotribes

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 15/04/18 07:30 PM

Originally Posted By KenShapiro
I have chosen to stick with my stock shocks, saving time to spend driving my M3W, riding my Beemer, lying in my hammock and making live to my girlfriend. The money I’m

will be spent on shrimp and cigars.


Making love in a hammock? Be careful..
Posted By: PaulR

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 15/04/18 09:18 PM

Us 3 Wheelers have a finely honed sense of balance
Posted By: Draggin

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 15/04/18 10:10 PM

Im working 70+ hours a week. I have to spend the money on something
Posted By: KenShapiro

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 15/04/18 10:40 PM

Originally Posted By Draggin
Im working 70+ hours a week. I have to spend the money on something


You’re paying my social security. Thanks. Been retired 11 years now. I think my M3W is perfect as delivered by Morgan. So, I just spent $2,500 on my BMW R9T.
Posted By: Draggin

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 16/04/18 01:10 AM

Im going to change the oil on the R69s this year...
Posted By: KenShapiro

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 16/04/18 01:22 AM

Originally Posted By Draggin
Im going to change the oil on the R69s this year...


There goes another $75!😱
Posted By: kankeL

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 02/02/19 05:42 AM

Guys, my SPAX shocks came without any instructions. The link provided in this thread is dead.

Would you please share the instructions in case you have it? Just want to make sure I adjust the preload correctly.
Posted By: Bunny

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 02/02/19 09:03 AM

My front Spax are set up with 95mm between the centre of the bolt hole and the upper surface of the spring seat. This gives me a ride height around 5mm lower than stock. Obviously, when fitted they can be tweaked if necessary so that you end up with an even ride height side to side. Another approach is to adjust so that the steering arms are horizontal.

Regarding firmness: Start off with 10 clicks from softest and go from there.

Can't help you with the rears because I don't have them fitted!
Posted By: RedThree

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 02/02/19 09:08 AM

Try going to Spax Downloads Page and then to the Krypton Dampers owners manual link. That should get the instructions, such as they are.
The black art bit for road use usually consists of setting the preload to give what looks like the right ride height then driving it and adjusting the damping till it feels about right. What feels right on the road is right: it's different for competition use and involves stopwatches! Also, for road use there is a fairly wide window of damper settings that work well or to put it another way, a one click change might make a particular bumpy corner slightly more controlled and comfortable but the next corner might not be quite as good as it was before! Once you have it working well then consider adjusting the preload, again for road use the damping might not need changed for a small preload change but it is worth going up and down a couple of clicks to see what happens to the feel on the road.
Don't be daunted by how vague it all sounds, the chances are that the damping is set at a fairly decent setting out of the box but do check what the setting is - you need to know where you are starting from.
Have fun and remember that a lot of the benefit of replacement shocks is that the uncontrolled free play before the damping kicks in is much reduced compared to the originals, they also tend to have much better bumpstops so the end of travel movement is better controlled and they are much less inclined to overheat too.
Posted By: 06032

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 02/02/19 04:41 PM

Timely thread. Just installed my front Ohlins and am waiting excessive motivation to tackle the rears. Not to mention the arrival of Spring for these 'seat of the pants' black art tweaks.
Posted By: kankeL

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 11/02/19 07:33 AM

Thanks, guys! Installed all 4 shocks. Changed the rear tire as well, since it all was taken apart. Had to grind down 3 bushings, as they were wider than the frame mount. Waiting for a dry day to test it out!

What ride height are tou running? (Unloaded)
Posted By: Draggin

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 19/02/19 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By Draggin
Im going to change the oil on the R69s this year...

I sold it instead. Took the money and bought a Ural sidecar
Posted By: 06032

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 20/02/19 02:32 AM

Wohoh! Welcome to the Ural club! The M3W and Ural make a nice pair. Dare I say, build quality is similar....making the Ural a bargain.
Posted By: kankeL

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 22/02/19 01:27 AM

For the life of me, I was never able to comprehend the affection to Ural motorcycles in the US (no offense intended). I grew up in a soviet-block country and those (along with Dnepr, IZH, Minsk, etc) were dirt-cheap and utterly unreliable. I am shocked they are selling these at $16K+, considering that you can probably buy a good example of the bike they stole it from for that money: BMW R71/R75.
Posted By: 06032

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 22/02/19 02:17 PM

Originally Posted By kankeL
For the life of me, I was never able to comprehend the affection to Ural motorcycles in the US (no offense intended). I grew up in a soviet-block country and those (along with Dnepr, IZH, Minsk, etc) were dirt-cheap and utterly unreliable. I am shocked they are selling these at $16K+, considering that you can probably buy a good example of the bike they stole it from for that money: BMW R71/R75.


LOL. I've heard this before...especially in Russia from Russians. Not a Ural or Ural dealer or parts to be found in Moscow or St. Pete. Only HD's will do.

The only way I can explain this - and this comes from a Bimmer snob and person who loves niche vehicles - is to think of the Ural as your 'beater', especially in the winter or when you wouldn't take anything else on the road or through a wooded trail. If I spent the same money on a vintage BMW, I'd pamper it well into OCD extreme and mount it in my living room. No such guilt with the Ural. I bought mine in '08 (new) as the 'anti-BMW' and had zero expectations of it lasting three years. My intention was to use it in the winter and share the joy of motorcycling with my toddlers before I was too old and dangerous to ride 2-up. The Ural has 2-wheel drive and a reverse gear. It's comfortable. It will literally go anywhere through anything. It gets as much attention, smiles and conversations per mile as the M3W. Low and behold, it won the war of attrition in my garage. It became my and my wife's favorite bike. The high-speed K-bikes are long gone. Mine was never abused as planned but instead became a part of the family. Zero issues or rust whatsoever in 11 years of passive ownership. It has never failed to start. Plus, there is such a vibrant owner's community and opportunities to customize, that it'ssimple to maintain and personalize. With a vintage BMW, I would never dream of this level of customization.

Granted, sidecars for the highway (65 mph tops, 50 'just right') but for secondary and dirt roads, tailgating, weekend getaways, camping and fishing trips, visits to the market, rides with kids or picnic's with the wife, it's a blast. And it NEVER gets stuck.

And I have to say, after working on both, I am more impressed with the value of the Ural.
Posted By: rcmatt

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 22/02/19 02:36 PM

Originally Posted By kankeL
For the life of me, I was never able to comprehend the affection to Ural motorcycles in the US (no offense intended). I grew up in a soviet-block country and those (along with Dnepr, IZH, Minsk, etc) were dirt-cheap and utterly unreliable. I am shocked they are selling these at $16K+, considering that you can probably buy a good example of the bike they stole it from for that money: BMW R71/R75.


Well I only grew up on the left coast, but have had sidecars for years and I cannot comprehend the Ural attraction either. We had a California car on our 78 wing, then a Motorvation coupe (sold both of those cars). And then an EML total conversion on our 86 GL1200 (drove like a dream). Now that the kids are long gone, we have a Motorvation spyder on the 1200. Would have put on a liberty, but he only makes mounts for Harleys.
I might add our kids saw nearly all of the country with those rigs, including an 8,000 mile trek back about 88 or 89 in the EML. My wife and I have ridden in all 50 states on bike(s).
Posted By: kankeL

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 22/02/19 06:06 PM

Originally Posted By 06032
Originally Posted By kankeL
For the life of me, I was never able to comprehend the affection to Ural motorcycles in the US (no offense intended). I grew up in a soviet-block country and those (along with Dnepr, IZH, Minsk, etc) were dirt-cheap and utterly unreliable. I am shocked they are selling these at $16K+, considering that you can probably buy a good example of the bike they stole it from for that money: BMW R71/R75.


LOL. I've heard this before...especially in Russia from Russians. Not a Ural or Ural dealer or parts to be found in Moscow or St. Pete. Only HD's will do.

The only way I can explain this - and this comes from a Bimmer snob and person who loves niche vehicles - is to think of the Ural as your 'beater', especially in the winter or when you wouldn't take anything else on the road or through a wooded trail. If I spent the same money on a vintage BMW, I'd pamper it well into OCD extreme and mount it in my living room. No such guilt with the Ural. I bought mine in '08 (new) as the 'anti-BMW' and had zero expectations of it lasting three years. My intention was to use it in the winter and share the joy of motorcycling with my toddlers before I was too old and dangerous to ride 2-up. The Ural has 2-wheel drive and a reverse gear. It's comfortable. It will literally go anywhere through anything. It gets as much attention, smiles and conversations per mile as the M3W. Low and behold, it won the war of attrition in my garage. It became my and my wife's favorite bike. The high-speed K-bikes are long gone. Mine was never abused as planned but instead became a part of the family. Zero issues or rust whatsoever in 11 years of passive ownership. It has never failed to start. Plus, there is such a vibrant owner's community and opportunities to customize, that it'ssimple to maintain and personalize. With a vintage BMW, I would never dream of this level of customization.

Granted, sidecars for the highway (65 mph tops, 50 'just right') but for secondary and dirt roads, tailgating, weekend getaways, camping and fishing trips, visits to the market, rides with kids or picnic's with the wife, it's a blast. And it NEVER gets stuck.

And I have to say, after working on both, I am more impressed with the value of the Ural.


Very interesting... Kinda makes more sense now, glad they you’re enjoying it :-)

I sold my k1600gtl-e (20.000 miles) as well, as the 3wheeler was the winner every time :-D
Posted By: 06032

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 22/02/19 09:07 PM

Agreed. The Ural can't compare to other sidecars in terms of distance travel. But for around town or off road, it's near impossible to beat. My GS1150 (needed 20 more hp), K1200GT, K1200S were all a blast. But they felt 'solo' and a tad selfish. The sidecar is simply more enjoyable with and for passengers or running errands.

Kinda cool is that my Ural and M3W are essentially the same green/black/chrome color scheme. The Ural is customized with 'Shea Bros. Livery' graphics and striping which I may replicate on the Morgan. They already look like proper stable mates.

But seriously, these two toys have a lot in common. To start, they are both hand built in inefficient factories. IMHO, build quality isn't far off. That makes the Ural a surprising relative bargain.
Posted By: britmog

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 22/02/19 09:39 PM

Interesting that you consider the MMC factory inefficient?
Posted By: kankeL

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 23/02/19 03:05 AM

We need some pictures side by side!
Posted By: 06032

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 23/02/19 03:42 PM

Originally Posted By britmog
Interesting that you consider the MMC factory inefficient?


Britmog, no criticism of MMC on this point intended. By mass production standards though....I mean, they're bespoke, made by hand, of wood (to float and melt apart like witches), right? I'm curious about the comparative labor hours and cost of goods. I bet production rates are similar too.

Just sayin. A typical M3W cost $55k and a Ural $16k. I can tell you where the value is. Both have issues. One however, set low expectations and exceeded. Heresy, but I honestly expected more from the M3W at this price point. I'm now adding Ohlins, Dynamat, carpeting, LED's, a proper steering wheel, Stage 1, a 'produced of gold' luggage rack, covers, perhaps an oil cooler, etc. to get it closer to that point. The Ural received upgrades too but at a fraction of the cost for an equivalent number of smiles per mile. I love them both but not one more than the other. Advantage, Ural. But I prefer the M3W to an AMG GTS that I sold to make space for it (and to keep away from son #1, see below). Go figure.

I'll take a photo of them together when Spring arrives. The more I think of it, replicating livery graphics is the thing to do. They make a fun, unique pair. My eldest son will start driving this summer. After he's competent and learns to fly a chair, I look forward to touring them together!
Posted By: britmog

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 23/02/19 09:33 PM

I'm still confused by the reference to "inefficient". Mass production and hand built are chalk and cheese to compare. I've never been to the Ural factory but have lived and worked in Russia and also lived close to the Morgan factory which I used to visit often over the years. Again if the Ural factory and working conditions is anything like the Russian factories I'm used to seeing comparing it to MMC is like comparing chalk and cheese.
Posted By: PaulV

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 24/02/19 10:42 AM

Originally Posted By britmog
I'm still confused by the reference to "inefficient". Mass production and hand built are chalk and cheese to compare. ...

A classic reference for "Morgan" and "manufacturing efficiency" is the ex-submariner / ICI industrialist Sir John Harvey-Jones review of Morgan factory practices (ref Youtube). "So, you have to push the cars UPHILL to the next stage of production?" etc etc! Of course they have improved, no longer insist on using non-power-tools, roll the cars mostly downhill now, etc etc. I suspect they could well be efficient vs Russian factories; I wonder more on the comparison with other low-scale factories like McLaren, Prodrive, Ariel, etc... still a highly enjoyable factory tour though!
Posted By: britmog

Re: Spax adjustable set-up. - 24/02/19 03:02 PM

The Sir Harvey-Jones series of programs was fascinating to watch, especially as MMC didn't want to follow his direction one of the only companies that took that route.

More interestingly is the number of companies from that series who followed Sir Harvey-Jones advise and are still around today or have not been swallowed up by bigger conglomerates.

I should confess to a bias, I've been driving Morgan's for over 40 years. Visited the factory in 2012 to see the new M3W, during my conversations I asked if there was any concern at the new customer base the M3W will bring into the Morgan World? The response was that the business will be good but the Morgan education will be long. I was asked if I was going to buy one, I replied I will wait 5 years. This brought on hearty laughs, six years later I bought my M3W!!!
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