Talk Morgan

garage kit

Posted By: B3MOG

garage kit - 08/01/20 12:06 PM

I have just been granted planning permission for a double garage and I am looking for advice on a few things..
I am going to get a mid rise scissor lift..which are the best to buy?
any tips on a de-humidifier?
Is the best floor covering carpet tiles?
the garage will be rendered blockwork with a pitched roof, what is the best material to insulate it?
I don't expect it to take too long to build but the problem with living in York is as soon as you start digging holes a roman or viking pops his head up.

David Byrne
Posted By: mal

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 12:28 PM

Hi David, check out strong man tools, I purchase a chifton 3ton scissor lift in 2018, best bit of kit I've every bought since I do maintenance on 7 motors, there also have another lift called the Tamar 2.7ton and half the price of the chifton, which I'm considering buying at the March NEC restoration show.
I would recommend strong man tools, the build quality is excellent, and go for the Tamar if working on the Morgan
Posted By: NickCW

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 12:48 PM

Quite a few options for you, if you have the roof space you could get a proper two post lift some of which can be mounted into the floor so they sit flush and hidden when not in use - great for low cars (i.e. Mogs) and not tripping over, takes a bit more time and floor depth to do but well worth it imo.

As for floor covering I always use carpet tiles, they are warm, insulated, easy to swap out and pleasant to work with. They are also suprisingly stain resistant, cheap and easy to fit in the first place, plus you can get creative using multiple colours or directions of the weave to achieve appropriate effects. That being said if you want a really solid stable surface for jacking on, or using stands (I would imagine the lift would negate this though) then a sold tiled floor might be best with a full bed under to stop cracking.

If you are doing a brick outer skin, and blockwork internally then I would insulate between - for aesthetics rendering the blocks inside would look nice or you could properly plasterboard etc.

De-humidifiers you want a dessicant unit, condensing are of no use in the UK as they don't work at lower temperatures and really its winter when you need it due to the additional humidity and the lower temps meaning the air doesn't hold as much moisture before condensation occurs.

I currently use an ecoAir DD322FW CLASSIC (X DRY), had this for years and years and it keeps on going (about 7 years now). It was sent away for one repair under warranty which was FOC.
I also have a Meaco Zambizi which was a replacement for the ecoAir when I thought it died, it seemed to be one of the most highly specced dessicant units.. but the ecoAir came back to life so the Meaco has been sat in the loft for a year now.

Also make sure you get the correct garage doors - roller doors and sectional doors are fantastic for sealing the apperture and stopping debris, dirt and moisture getting in, so make sure you garage has sufficient roof height to allow installation of both to keep your options open.
For sectional doors no one beats Hormann, for roller doors SWS Secure Xcel is the best, or again use Hormann. If going SWS upgrade the motors to Somfy (german units) as they are better and the main reason I chose SWS initially, although since then I have been very impressed with their door quality.

Hope that helps - bit of a ramble there!
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 01:16 PM

David, if I was building from new I would design the floor slab to have a deep enough trough / recess to house the height of the scissor lift when closed, generally they stand proud 3 - 4 inches & can snag on a Mog

I ended up having to build some neat timber ramps to clear mine & in hindsight regretted the issue of a scissor becoming a tripping hazard too

If you're doing a pukka pitched roof use oversized joists so that you can fully board it - makes a fabulous store & it's surprising how many Mog spares it will house
Posted By: Luddite

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 02:38 PM

I guess you will be sure to insist that the floor slab has good damp proofing and drainage around... a damp floor can screw up the whole show...? I used attic trusses on my garage to provide storage space the posibility of flooring and to allow the garage space to be insulated as I plaster plated the ceiling, I also fitted all insulated doors. If you concentrate on insulation, you could reduce the chance of humidity, and reduce the long term electrical loading/ costs on dehum...?

I fitted a smoke detector in the attic, and heat detector in the garage space, connected to the system in the house...

Good luck with the build..
Posted By: PaulV

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 02:43 PM

I remember when building an inspection pit into a garage was a good idea!
Posted By: DaveW

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 02:54 PM

I dug a pit, and it has paid for itself over and over...……….. Double skinned concrete blocks, lined with Visqueen, and no sign of damp or water.

Carpet tiles are my cover of choice for the reasons given above. I source mine from E-Bay and get commercial grade. Painted floors look very professional, and my floor has been cream, grey, then red, but the paint doesn't wear well in a used environment, and carpet tiles are warmer to lay on.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by mal
Hi David, check out strong man tools, I purchase a chifton 3ton scissor lift in 2018, best bit of kit I've every bought since I do maintenance on 7 motors, there also have another lift called the Tamar 2.7ton and half the price of the chifton, which I'm considering buying at the March NEC restoration show.
I would recommend strong man tools, the build quality is excellent, and go for the Tamar if working on the Morgan


Another vote for the Strongman Tamar, I have one and it's pretty much perfect for the Morgan.

As for insulation, I have 150mm Celotex in the roof and 100mm blown rockwool in the wall cavity. A better option than carpet tiles for the floor is interlocking plastic like Ecotiles. Use LED battens for lighting.
Posted By: Craig Jezz

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 03:17 PM

Hi David B

For my garage I used a single skin brickwork and blockwork to the ground floor (brickwork where exposed) and timber studwork for the first floor, then cladded with waney edge boarding. For insulation in the roof storage area I used 100mm Celotex between the roofing rafters and 50mm celotex over the face with plasterboard / skim coat. In the garage itself I stuck 50mm celotex to the inside walls, with 12.5mm wbp plywood plugged and screwed over the face of the celotex (ply is good for hanging tools on) Its a concrete floor slab with damp proofing and carpet tiles for floor finishes. No need for dehumidifier.

I hope this helps.

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Posted By: britmog

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 03:27 PM

I would consider looking at the EZ Car Lift (Holden sell them in the UK). Better than a scissor lift as it gives all round access to the vehicle, no hydraulics to deal with, adjustable to any height in the range, very stable, easily moved and can be stored flat against the wall. A big advantage I find is having the detachable wheels allowing me to move the Morgans easily around the garage, the lift can also be used for a multitude of tasks outside of Morgan maintenance.
Posted By: Obie

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 03:41 PM

As Craig says Celotex and plywood is a good idea for solid block walls, can take the knocks and is great for hanging stuff off.
For ease of installation you could use multi layer foil quilt for the roof taped at all joints.
Make sure you get quality doors. A big cause of heat loss will be air leakage through the garage doors and roof, I’ve seen plenty of badly fitted celotex in roofs covered with plasterboard, you just end up with an air cooled surface.
Posted By: RobCol

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Craig Jezz
Hi David B

For my garage I used a single skin brickwork and blockwork to the ground floor (brickwork where exposed) and timber studwork for the first floor, then cladded with waney edge boarding. For insulation in the roof storage area I used 100mm Celotex between the roofing rafters and 50mm celotex over the face with plasterboard / skim coat. In the garage itself I stuck 50mm celotex to the inside walls, with 12.5mm wbp plywood plugged and screwed over the face of the celotex (ply is good for hanging tools on) Its a concrete floor slab with damp proofing and carpet tiles for floor finishes. No need for dehumidifier.

I hope this helps.

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Quality Job there Craig!
Posted By: madmax

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 04:33 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rERxNMiSWnY

ez utube video .
Posted By: TimG

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 04:52 PM

I guess those with carpet tile floors never take their cars out on wet roads. Mine would hardly be used if that was a criterion for use. I would have thought an easily cleanable surface would be preferable maybe with a slight slope to a gully & drain. I have a sheet of foam to lie on.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by madmax


Seems a bit of a faff TBH, and doesn't seem to lift the car very high? A scissor lift gives free access to front and rear suspension, engine and transmission and you can happily sit underneath it.

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Posted By: Luddite

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 05:07 PM

A word of warning for those who have pits....
Many years ago I used to work with a car mad architect, he and his son were into a Ford Capri at the time and they wanted to wire in some fog guard lights that would be fitted into recesses in the rear skirt below the bumper. They had a pit, and set about removing the petrol tank, with the task of removing the tank almost complete the dad climbed out of the pit and went into the house to make breakfast, and shouted on his son when it was ready.... The son was lying dead in the pit, apparently the petrol fumes had built up in the pit and expelled all the breathable air. I guess the son expected the fumes to be there but did not realise it would affect him greatly until it was too late..... very sad indeed.

Keeping pits clean and dry can also be a bind.
Posted By: JMcL

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 05:42 PM

As well as insulation in walls, ceiling and roof, the floor needs something. Up to 40% of heat loss is through a floor if it is in direct contact with the ground. Over the hardcore you might have at least 50mm before the rebar and concrete. The complete footings and layer by layer floor specification will depend on your ground. Check with your surveyor.
Posted By: Grumpy2

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 05:44 PM

Hi David

I have one of these

https://geg.co/product/eurotek-mrs3-scissor-lift/?v=79cba1185463

fantastic bit of kit and the Morgan will just sit on top of it. However if I was starting from scratch I would recess the floor for the lifter to fit into. Only because when there's no car on top it is a bit of a trip hazard. I'd also allow a channel for the hydraulic pipes.

I've had a couple of issues with my lifter (nothing serious) and every time a quick chat with the supplier has solved the problem. After sales support has been excellent.

Gary
Posted By: madmax

Re: garage kit - 08/01/20 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by madmax


Seems a bit of a faff TBH, and doesn't seem to lift the car very high? A scissor lift gives free access to front and rear suspension, engine and transmission and you can happily sit underneath it.

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That looks the business ! thumbs
Posted By: Taffmog

Re: garage kit - 09/01/20 12:36 AM

I would put a fibreglass pit in with seat and lights.
If going the lift route, yes recess it into the floor. Have a look at the CJ Autos, Heywood, website.
Great garage equipment at very reasonable prices.
Posted By: ChrisConvertible

Re: garage kit - 09/01/20 02:29 AM

In Australia Pits are illegal, probably due to the reason Luddite said.

I think this jack is nice, I know someone with one and he takes it to track days with him, he likes that it can easily be put in the boot of his tow car, but his tow car is huge. He even used it to replace a gearbox in the pits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVMVVHOXJ6Y

At my sons workshop they replace the car lifts pretty often for OH&S reasons, so they offer them to the workers, the main issue is the minimum height for the lifts they use is 4 metres and the maximum height a garage can be and still be a garage for planning regulations is 3 metres. Garages can be closer to a boundary so to get a 4 metre high garage means having a pretty wide block to build a house and garage with the side setbacks required.

However I think legally a lift needs a yearly inspection so he would have to pay for that if he ever got a house with a large enough garage.

I like tidy wall and installed it in my garage. I got it from https://thegarageorganisers.com.au/awalls-tidywall-storage-panels.htm but I expect is a world wide product, google found it in Ireland. To save some money and make the garage look nice I put red painted plywood above and below it. I thought I am not going to hang anything above 2.1 metres or below 0.3 metres. I used rubber floor mats, black in the middle where the cars park and red around the edge. Overall I am happy and would do the same again.


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Posted By: britmog

Re: garage kit - 09/01/20 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by madmax


Seems a bit of a faff TBH, and doesn't seem to lift the car very high? A scissor lift gives free access to front and rear suspension, engine and transmission and you can happily sit underneath it.

[Linked Image]


I actually find it less of a faff than the hydraulic lifts and a darn site more practical as it moves easily around the garage with many more uses. Sold my scissor lift as result of using the EZ Lift. Everyone to their own.
Posted By: LightSpeed

Re: garage kit - 09/01/20 04:45 AM

I am with Bruce on this. Hydraulics fail once in a while and I would hate to be under it that once in a rare moment it decided to crash down. The EZlift just requires lubing a couple of times a year and can easily be disassembled and put into a station wagon or pickup truck or on a roof rack and moved anywhere. I just hoist mine up against a wall to get it off the floor or drive over it with my Morgan.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: garage kit - 09/01/20 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by LightSpeed
I am with Bruce on this. Hydraulics fail once in a while and I would hate to be under it that once in a rare moment it decided to crash down. The EZlift just requires lubing a couple of times a year and can easily be disassembled and put into a station wagon or pickup truck or on a roof rack and moved anywhere. I just hoist mine up against a wall to get it off the floor or drive over it with my Morgan.


Quite happy for people to have different preferences, but it's worth pointing out that a hydraulic lift like this has a fail-safe locking system. It requires a positive 60 psi of air pressure to release the locks and needs somebody to be stood at the control unit holding the down button in constantly while the lift descends.
Posted By: TBM

Re: garage kit - 09/01/20 07:24 AM

I'm getting garage envy smile

Mine is a piece of scratty concrete and gravel at the front of the house...
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: garage kit - 09/01/20 08:59 AM

This doesn't show all the lift, but illustrates why I would recess it into the floorslab next time


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Posted By: NickCW

Re: garage kit - 09/01/20 11:45 AM

All this talk of lifts is making me consider one now! Darn it laugh2
Posted By: B3MOG

Re: garage kit - 09/01/20 02:23 PM

Thanks for all the replies I now have garage envy.

David Byrne
Posted By: IvorMog

Re: garage kit - 09/01/20 04:44 PM

What about this.

Short narrow 2 post lift
Posted By: madmax

Re: garage kit - 10/01/20 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by IvorMog
What about this.

Short narrow 2 post lift



£1160 plus vat
Looks very useful for most garages as height is always a limiting factor .
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: garage kit - 10/01/20 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by madmax

Looks very useful for most garages as height is always a limiting factor .


This is the problem we had with my garage. The planning department refused to permit an internal ceiling height of greater than 2.5 metres as otherwise they considered it to have potential for conversion to commercial use which is prohibited in my area (AONB). The floor loading of a 2-post lift is also quite high, I think you might need a great deal more than a standard depth of concrete for a garage floor.
Posted By: IvorMog

Re: garage kit - 10/01/20 01:21 PM

I've been talking to this supplier who just happens to be in my town.

They supply the fixings and state you need 125mm concrete slab to bolt into.

They also do a scissor lift but I would like to be able to get to the underside of the car and prefer to stand rather than sit although, with the maximum height of this lift, I would have to crouch slightly.

What do others think about the pros and cons of scissor lifts versus 2 post lifts?

I had the same problem with roof heights in this area (also AONB) but this 2 post lift would go in comfortably.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: garage kit - 10/01/20 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by IvorMog
I've been talking to this supplier who just happens to be in my town.

They supply the fixings and state you need 125mm concrete slab to bolt into.

They also do a scissor lift but I would like to be able to get to the underside of the car and prefer to stand rather than sit although, with the maximum height of this lift, I would have to crouch slightly.

What do others think about the pros and cons of scissor lifts versus 2 post lifts?

I had the same problem with roof heights in this area (also AONB) but this 2 post lift would go in comfortably.


Bob, If you're within range of Stroud you'd be more than welcome to come over and try mine before you make a decision.
Posted By: IvorMog

Re: garage kit - 10/01/20 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by IvorMog
I've been talking to this supplier who just happens to be in my town.

They supply the fixings and state you need 125mm concrete slab to bolt into.

They also do a scissor lift but I would like to be able to get to the underside of the car and prefer to stand rather than sit although, with the maximum height of this lift, I would have to crouch slightly.

What do others think about the pros and cons of scissor lifts versus 2 post lifts?

I had the same problem with roof heights in this area (also AONB) but this 2 post lift would go in comfortably.


Bob, If you're within range of Stroud you'd be more than welcome to come over and try mine before you make a decision.


Thanks Tim,

Sister in Law lives in Cheltenham and we're due to visit soon so I'll PM when I know more.
Posted By: John07

Re: garage kit - 10/01/20 02:11 PM

I have a couple of mates who each have four posters in normal garages. They have modified the trusses to gain a few more inches and can double park lowish cars (4 ft). One uses a five castor office chair to move around while working on the car above. One issue with two posters is that if the posts are too close together it can be difficult to get out of the car.
Two post, four post or scissor lifts all have thier own pros and cons, you just need to get the one thats right for you and your garage. Anything is better than laying on the floor!
If you need any four post info PM me.
Cheers
John
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