Talk Morgan

Electric smart meters

Posted By: robmog88

Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 12:23 PM

Anyone experienced changing from old style electric meter to the new smart meters please?
I booked an appointment to do this with my energy supplier EDF who when they came told me the meter cupboard, recessed into the external wall, wasn’t big enough.
Apparently it’s down to me to provide a large enough cupboard to fit the new smart meter.
Struggled to get the dimensions they require for the new meter, but now discussing with local builder and electrician.
Seems much more difficult than I realised, anyone had the same issues or was it a walk in the park if you’ve done it?
Posted By: SFG

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 12:37 PM

I don’t think you are obliged to have a smart meter, so I would politely decline it.

Of course if everyone had a smart meter, there would be a saving in meter reading costs which would be shared by all customers, but I don’t think this saving would compensate for your expected costs. I would wait till it’s made mandatory, as by then it might be someone else’s problem. In the meantime invest in a larger laundry basket as a means of reducing electricity costs
Posted By: dmh

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 12:45 PM

We declined the offer of a meter swap.
From what I hear the smart meters do not operate if you switch suppliers - as we did recently.

I think we made the right decision - for now at least.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by SFG
if everyone had a smart meter, there would be a saving in meter reading costs which would be shared by all customers


That's not the way they are planning it. Smart meters certainly reduce the cost of reading, and that saving is going to be passed on to those people who have them, but people who remain with old meters aren't going to see any saving, quite the reverse in fact.

Expect to see a separately itemised reading charge on your bill if you stick with an old meter. Also expect not to be able to take advantage of new Time of Use / Demand Response tariffs as and when they come onto the market.
Posted By: Max5

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 12:47 PM

Ours (Scottish Power) was a walk in the park as you put it since it was internal, but other than not having to have the meter read on a regular basis, it was a complete waste of time! The read out provided is unintelligible. I only tried it on a couple of occasions and rapidly gave up.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by dmh
We declined the offer of a meter swap.
From what I hear the smart meters do not operate if you switch suppliers - as we did recently.

I think we made the right decision - for now at least.


That was the old SMETS-1 standard meters. Current smart meters are SMETS-2 compatible and can therefore be software-upgraded remotely.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Max5
Ours (Scottish Power) was a walk in the park as you put it since it was internal, but other than not having to have the meter read on a regular basis, it was a complete waste of time! The read out provided is unintelligible. I only tried it on a couple of occasions and rapidly gave up.


That's strange, what display unit did you get given? Ours does current use in KWh or £, use against budget, Use to date, all sorts of handy info. Maybe your unit is faulty?
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 01:21 PM

I think someone on here has been very knowledgeable on this in the past and should be able to answer.

Best guess based on comments above.

Ask them what model of meter they fit and the information should be available through Google like just about everything else on the planet.
https://www.uswitch.com/gas-electricity/guides/smart-meters-explained/

I understood that the first generation smart meters (SMETS1) did indeed have a supplier lock in and so went dumb if you changed suppliers.
https://forum.ovoenergy.com/smart-m...tility-are-they-compatible-with-ovo-5460

I think the new generation (SMETS2) have cross supplier capability and so if you swap billing agents it remains working. Worth asking what they plan to install.
The size of the smart meter in MiL and our home is really not that big. See bottom for link and specs.

An example would be the Secure Liberty 100 is a unit installed in MiL internal closet. I believe it is SMETS1 and has been used by a lot of companies.

The first installation of a smart meter is government subsidised/funded but replacements will be chargeable from my experience of our MiL's installation.

You will gain from having one in the future as the tariffs will benefit from cheaper overnight charges when there is a surplus (at least until we all start charging our electric cars).
an eco point of view it has real benefits so is not to be ignored.
The more we think about it the more we should reduce consumption all being well.

I totally agree re reading the bill requiring a Diploma. The only bill I hate more is the BT bill for the phone line, what a farce.

Dimensions (W x H x D) 140 x 175 x 60 mm
Manual - http://www.securemeters.com/files/6314/7531/1232/liberty_100.pdf
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by robmog88
Anyone experienced changing from old style electric meter to the new smart meters please?
I booked an appointment to do this with my energy supplier EDF who when they came told me the meter cupboard, recessed into the external wall, wasn’t big enough.
Apparently it’s down to me to provide a large enough cupboard to fit the new smart meter.
Struggled to get the dimensions they require for the new meter, but now discussing with local builder and electrician.
Seems much more difficult than I realised, anyone had the same issues or was it a walk in the park if you’ve done it?


I think your provider is talking Bo11ocks, the new smart / digital meters are way smaller than old style rotarys especially the projection out from the rear mounting board
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 01:39 PM

I have just had a new electricity meter fitted by E-ON but not a smart meter. My electric supply is in the house but my gas is up the drive in one of the garages. The fitter told me that the smart meter wouldn't work so I don't know what will happen in the future but unless there is a reduction in charges due to the fitting of a smart meter, I fail to see the point. I am quite capable of switching off lights etc when I don't need them thereby keeping my bills as low as possible.
Posted By: robmog88

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 01:49 PM

Thanks Reg,
As an ev owner I can get electricity at 8p per kWh, after nine pm and before 7am and all weekend.
this helps with reduction of electricity bill not just for charging cars but general consumption.
This type of timed tarrif is generally available from EDF and several other suppliers, octopus energy, bulb etc, so if you can adjust your consumption to make the most it is useful even if you’re not an ev owner.
Thanks for your comments, appreciated.
Posted By: robmog88

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by SFG
I don’t think you are obliged to have a smart meter, so I would politely decline it.

Of course if everyone had a smart meter, there would be a saving in meter reading costs which would be shared by all customers, but I don’t think this saving would compensate for your expected costs. I would wait till it’s made mandatory, as by then it might be someone else’s problem. In the meantime invest in a larger laundry basket as a means of reducing electricity costs



Thanks for the comments, see my comment above as to why I want a smart meter. Cheers
Posted By: robmog88

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 01:54 PM



Best guess based on comments above.

Ask them what model of meter they fit and the information should be available through Google like just about everything else on the planet.
https://www.uswitch.com/gas-electricity/guides/smart-meters-explained/

I understood that the first generation smart meters (SMETS1) did indeed have a supplier lock in and so went dumb if you changed suppliers.
https://forum.ovoenergy.com/smart-m...tility-are-they-compatible-with-ovo-5460

I think the new generation (SMETS2) have cross supplier capability and so if you swap billing agents it remains working. Worth asking what they plan to install.
The size of the smart meter in MiL and our home is really not that big. See bottom for link and specs.

An example would be the Secure Liberty 100 is a unit installed in MiL internal closet. I believe it is SMETS1 and has been used by a lot of companies.

The first installation of a smart meter is government subsidised/funded but replacements will be chargeable from my experience of our MiL's installation.

You will gain from having one in the future as the tariffs will benefit from cheaper overnight charges when there is a surplus (at least until we all start charging our electric cars).
an eco point of view it has real benefits so is not to be ignored.
The more we think about it the more we should reduce consumption all being well.

I totally agree re reading the bill requiring a Diploma. The only bill I hate more is the BT bill for the phone line, what a farce.

Dimensions (W x H x D) 140 x 175 x 60 mm
Manual - http://www.securemeters.com/files/6314/7531/1232/liberty_100.pdf [/quote]


Very many thanks Alistair, very useful info.
BR
Rob
Posted By: robmog88

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by CooperMan
Originally Posted by robmog88
Anyone experienced changing from old style electric meter to the new smart meters please?
I booked an appointment to do this with my energy supplier EDF who when they came told me the meter cupboard, recessed into the external wall, wasn’t big enough.
Apparently it’s down to me to provide a large enough cupboard to fit the new smart meter.
Struggled to get the dimensions they require for the new meter, but now discussing with local builder and electrician.
Seems much more difficult than I realised, anyone had the same issues or was it a walk in the park if you’ve done it?


I think your provider is talking Bo11ocks, the new smart / digital meters are way smaller than old style rotarys especially the projection out from the rear mounting board



Jon M,
That’s the conclusion I’m rapidly arriving at, they can’t give specific dimensions for the smets2 meter they are going to fit as “they’re all different”
And admittedly my meter cupboard has all sorts of additional items which were installed in there when my solar array was installed.
But to be honest it does seem to be a problem to which the remedy will be a significant spend to enlarge the cupboard. Not to mention some knocking out of bricks in the wall etc
BR
Rob
Posted By: BLUE+4

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 02:32 PM

I have been pestered by Scottish Power for nearly 2 years now by phone, text, letters and e-mail to have a smart meter fitted.
I have told them more times than I can remember that I don't want one and in fact I would have a generator installed rather than be forced to have one if it became compulsory, this still didn't stop the onslaught of calls etc.

In the end I called their installation team and asked the question "If I already turn off all unwanted lights and only use the electric that I need, would the fact that a smart meter runs by electricity only push my consumption up?" The answer was "if you put it like that then YES"

The calls have stopped now..... banghead
Posted By: Paul F

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 03:28 PM

EON talked us into a smart metre 2 years ago (ish). We still get bills based on estimated readings despite being assured that the technology would work at our house.

I won’t bother for the gas supply until there is some fiscal incentive.
Posted By: PhilRoyle

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 03:44 PM

Both our meters are smart ones and they fitted in the same space as the old ones - problems initially as they would not work with solar panels - buut now all sorted. They are convenient and give some idea of useage - but I would not go to any expense to have them fitted - they are mainly for the convenience of the supplier so if they want you to have one they should cover all the costs IMHO.
Posted By: Neptune

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 04:12 PM

SMETS1 meters are not transferable if you change suppliers. SMETS2 are transferable
Some suppliers still do not facilitate SMART meter readings
SMART meters do not reduce your usage, they just show you how much you are using.
When I last changed suppliers about 6 months ago, no suppliers offered or planned to offer discounts for SMART meter use.
SMART meters do not work in every home, they are dependent on signal strength, they don’t use your WiFi (that would be a security nightmare),
My SMART meter was a piece of pooh and got thrown, didn’t link to the supplier, so I had to send readings anyway.
A prime example of the technology not keeping up with the idea.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 04:21 PM

Our SMETS 1 smart meter, fitted by Scottish Power, works.
It offers me no benefit, other than not having to read the meter.
It saves them the cost of reading the meter once a year.
If I change supplier then it won't work.
All rather a pointless exercise, overall.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 05:38 PM

I've got one of the Gen1 Smart Meters that was supplied by EON. I'm now with Bulb.

Although the meter doesn't speak directly with Bulb, the meter still works with the display unit I've got indoors, so I can still get the meter readings without having to crawl around outside with a torch. I then send them to Bulb once a month via their app.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by robmog88
Originally Posted by CooperMan
Originally Posted by robmog88
Anyone experienced changing from old style electric meter to the new smart meters please?
I booked an appointment to do this with my energy supplier EDF who when they came told me the meter cupboard, recessed into the external wall, wasn’t big enough.
Apparently it’s down to me to provide a large enough cupboard to fit the new smart meter.
Struggled to get the dimensions they require for the new meter, but now discussing with local builder and electrician.
Seems much more difficult than I realised, anyone had the same issues or was it a walk in the park if you’ve done it?


I think your provider is talking Bo11ocks, the new smart / digital meters are way smaller than old style rotarys especially the projection out from the rear mounting board



Jon M,
That’s the conclusion I’m rapidly arriving at, they can’t give specific dimensions for the smets2 meter they are going to fit as “they’re all different”
And admittedly my meter cupboard has all sorts of additional items which were installed in there when my solar array was installed.
But to be honest it does seem to be a problem to which the remedy will be a significant spend to enlarge the cupboard. Not to mention some knocking out of bricks in the wall etc
BR
Rob


Rob, I have measured mine now I'm home, as I have old style for main meter and smart for the EV supply

Old rotary 125w x 180h x 125deep
New digital 120w x 190h x 80deep

As you can see they are 'designed' to make the swop easy as the backplate dim is almost identical & the in out cable positions are the same too, a good sparky would take less than 20 mins inc an earth test
Posted By: Dean-Royal

Re: Electric smart meters - 13/01/20 10:48 PM

Look here

www.purepla.net

No need for smart meter's
Posted By: sospan

Re: Electric smart meters - 14/01/20 12:15 AM

I was with SSE for dual supply. In one bill they included an estimate of predicted costs based on my estimated/average usage and my tariff. The estimated cost for the smart meter option was actually higher than for my standard meter.
In our old house a few years ago they tried fitting a smart meter but as there was no mobile phone signal they couldn’t. I queried if they could fit a signal booster but just got blank looks.
I can see the eventual cost saving for the supply companies due to reading costs but until variable tariffs are in place I will wait.
Our present house has a water meter and that saves about £300/year over non meter usage. That is not a smart meter and I wonder when there would be a plan for upgrades there too. Living in Wales we don’t get water shortages!
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: Electric smart meters - 14/01/20 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by Dean-Royal
Look here

www.purepla.net

No need for smart meter's


Errr....

Originally Posted by pureplanet website

We’re starting our Smart meter roll out

We’re starting to install second generation Smart meters (SMETS 2) for our Members. We’re currently inviting Members to take part in our pilot, and we’ll continue to expand our roll out throughout 2019 and 2020. Sorry — we can't currently install if you have a first generation Smart meter, or a feed-in tariff.

What is a smart meter, what does it do, and why should you have one?

READ OUR FAQS
Posted By: Marchogion

Re: Electric smart meters - 17/01/20 09:48 AM

I had 2 smart meters fitted about 5 years ago. It was quite intersting to see the profile of use for the first few weeks until the novelty wore off.
The reason for having these fitted was because my contract with Scottish Power required me to submit regular meter readings which was difficult when I was away. After about 5 months the gas meter stopped communicating with the network so I was back to submitting my own readings. I have reported this to SP several times and about 3 months ago I was told that a new meter would be fitted - yet nothing further heard.
SMETS2 meters would make switching quicker and easier but 1st generation meters can be a barrier to switching. Some people might save money but many of us won't save a bean. I think smart metering was misguided as the cost per household is several hundred pounds.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Electric smart meters - 17/01/20 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by sospan
I was with SSE for dual supply. In one bill they included an estimate of predicted costs based on my estimated/average usage and my tariff. The estimated cost for the smart meter option was actually higher than for my standard meter.
In our old house a few years ago they tried fitting a smart meter but as there was no mobile phone signal they couldn’t. I queried if they could fit a signal booster but just got blank looks.
I can see the eventual cost saving for the supply companies due to reading costs but until variable tariffs are in place I will wait.
Our present house has a water meter and that saves about £300/year over non meter usage. That is not a smart meter and I wonder when there would be a plan for upgrades there too. Living in Wales we don’t get water shortages!


I talked to Wessex Water about remote reading water meters. The summary: not possible to meters that are underground. The meter would have to be moved above ground and ideally be close to the smart electric meter so it could piggyback the same transmitter. Smart Gas Meters have a small transmitter, sufficient to talk to the electricity meter.

Also, the law says that the Water Company is responsible for all pipework up to the main stopcock, usually on or close to the boundary of the property: the owner is responsible for the pipes on the property. So moving the water meter to the building would extend the water company's responsibility.

Perhaps new builds will be fitted with smart water meters one day, but existing buildings? I don't see it in my life time.
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Electric smart meters - 17/01/20 04:10 PM

Further to my previous post, I have now received a 'mail from E-ON who inform me that as part of my new contract I have to have smart meters so that will be interesting. I will up date in due course.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Electric smart meters - 17/01/20 05:10 PM

When we had our E-ON installed a couple of years ago the Scouser with California teeth took 4 hours I couldn't believe it.
It saves all the faffing around in the meter cupboard I'm happy with it and the companies tarrifs.

If you are the nervous paranoid type that's not happy providing the information automatically just switch it off.
They learn far more about you at the supermarket checkout.
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Electric smart meters - 17/01/20 06:59 PM

We had an N-Power smart meter a few years ago. It failed to connect to the gas meter reliably so it's somewhere in the loft.

A complete waste of money.
Posted By: Paul F

Re: Electric smart meters - 17/01/20 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich

If you are the nervous paranoid type that's not happy providing the information automatically just switch it off.


I was under the impression that there was no connection between the display unit and the transmission of data. Am I wrong?
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Electric smart meters - 17/01/20 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Paul F
Originally Posted by +8Rich

If you are the nervous paranoid type that's not happy providing the information automatically just switch it off.


I was under the impression that there was no connection between the display unit and the transmission of data. Am I wrong?

I think you are absolutely right Paul, the metering unit that contains the SIM talks to the customer head unit to evaluate their consumption now I come to think about it.
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Electric smart meters - 18/01/20 11:13 AM

Rich, you are absolutely correct about supermarket check outs collecting info. Every week we get offers from Tesco ( other, better supermarkets are available ) which try to tempt the Memsahib back with £10 off an £80 bill or something like that and it is directly targeted at the actual items that she bought previously.
Posted By: britmog

Re: Electric smart meters - 18/01/20 03:54 PM

Your whole lifestyle is contained in your credit card and cell phone down to the minute!!!
Posted By: lumpy

Re: Electric smart meters - 04/02/20 04:07 PM

I resisted for a few years after a very painful experience with first generation smart electric meter, which saw my bill go from £90 to £350 a month. I ended up leaving that supplier as the only way to resolve the billing issues ( to which I got a full refund after dragging the CEO into the discussion). I have solar PV installed for the last 9 yrs and was hesitant when approached by current provider to switch over to smart meters. After a lot of surfing various forums and user groups, the consensus was that the incumbent was installing 2nd Gen meters and those with Solar PV had no problems. I invested in a small monitoring computer (EmonPI a raspberry pi derivitive) which monitors both my solar output and my intake from the grid and ran this for about 6months comparing the data with that of the solar and grid meters. I found it to be remarkably accurate with only a small difference between them, not great enough to get bent out of shape.

So I bit the bullet and went ahead with the smart meters, a year later no problems and the checks between the monitors is within the same tolerances as previously observed. Solar is not interfering or being miss interpreted and I no longer get estimated readings for Gas & Electric. The solar is still a manual reading supplied by me every quarter via the website!
The bottom line is that you can check if your current supplier has any known issues with Solar installations and there smart meter offerings. Including sim coverage for their chosen network.

I have spent the last 30yrs working in IT systems and have had experience in setting up billing systems for energy companies. With this background I'm comfortable with how these systems and services work and nothing has changed from the customer perspective other than manual metering only occurs once a year as a means of checking that the systems are reporting correctly and have not been interfered with.

Rgds
Lumpy
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Electric smart meters - 04/02/20 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by lowebird
Further to my previous post, I have now received a 'mail from E-ON who inform me that as part of my new contract I have to have smart meters so that will be interesting. I will up date in due course.



As promised, the E-ON man came, spent a while looking around, heard what I told him about previous visits and confirmed again that the Smart meter will not work so at least I can continue on my new tariff without fear of reversion to a more expensive rate
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Electric smart meters - 04/02/20 10:28 PM

Glad you have come to an amicable arrangement Reg grin2, I find them very fair in any dealings I've had with them.

We are with E-ON with a smart meter with £46 per month direct debit so £552 p.a. and I'm happy with that, we've been with them since 2012 and they come up with the best deal every time for our pattern of usage.
Of course living down here on the English Riviera we usually only get about 5 frosty mornings and the weather certainly is mild.

We pay nearly the same for water down here we have the most expensive water in the country, must be due to the fact it's always piddling down and they haven't found a way to catch it rofl it came in at £535 for 2019.

Oil is our heating source which is around £800 p.a. for a 3 bedroom house it seems pretty thermally efficient for a 41 year old house we have cavity wall insulation and the normal loft insulation and that's it.

If I consider the running costs are getting high I'll look into panels but quite frankly there are many a nice house wrecked aesthetically with these things hanging on the roof around our area so no thanks for the time being. I'd look into air heat source pump options before panels.
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Electric smart meters - 05/02/20 10:27 AM

Rich, same here re E-ON. A good company that perhaps just need a few more listening ears. Our water costs are minimal as our run off all goes into the ground so we are not charged for it. At the last check, we were paying £24 a month.
Posted By: John Robie

Gas smart meters - 06/03/20 07:56 AM

I got home yesterday to a freezing cold house due to no gas supply. I called out an engineer who very quickly found that (for the second time) the gas meter had failed due to water ingress (it lives outside in a meter cupboard). He said he replaces a lot of meters for that reason, coastal areas are particularly susceptible apparently.

However, he also told me the most common fault now is failing internal batteries. Electric smart meters are - unsurprisingly - powered from the supply but the electronics in gas ones use a battery. The first gen gas meters are now running out of power and as the internal batteries are nonreplaceable the meters have to be swapped out. Of course when the electronics fail the supply is shut off!

On the plus side, the engineer from SGN was with me in two hours but it's taking a lot longer than that to get the house back up to temperature.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Gas smart meters - 06/03/20 01:00 PM

That's a bit poor to say the least, our smart water meter apparently generates it's own power for the smartrikery with the impellor in the flow, easy !

You'd have thought the flow of gas could be harnessed to do the same
© 2020 Talk Morgan - Morgan Sports Car Discussion Forum, Community and News