Talk Morgan

Suffolk Cars

Posted By: ChrisConvertible

Suffolk Cars - 19/08/20 11:50 PM

I found this on Face book. Seems sad and I don't understand how the large Company I expect it is would benefit from preventing sales of old style cars, Surely anyone interesting in purchasing a S100 is not interested in a more modern style of car, the only manufacturer I see benefiting from this is Morgan,


SUFFOLK SPORTSCARS LTD
I have today received the e-mail below from Roger Williams:

A NEWS RELEASE.

This is to advise your readers of events concerning Suffolk Sportscars Ltd.

///////

Roger Williams joined the Jaguar Drivers Club in 1965. He bought and restored a neglected 1932 SSII. Between 1960 and 1965 he was employed by Botwoods Ltd, the Jaguar main dealers in Ipswich. He was trained as a Jaguar engineer for 5 years.

In the following 50 years he personally owned at least a dozen new Jaguar cars; many more XK models were restored over many years.

Suffolk Sportscars Ltd was created in 1995 to manufacture replica cars , all using XJ/XK Jaguar components. The business grew very well and continued successfully until late 2019.

In late 2019 a large car manufacturer forced the company to cease and to stop making replicas. The manufacturers declared that use of their logos, designs and trademarks were not allowed. All appeals were rejected. Therefore no new replica cars can be made by Suffolk Sportscars Ltd.

Fortunately the company were able to carry out garage service work locally and to do engineering work for customers in Europe .

By mid February, the Covid 19 pandemic was expanding its devastating effects all over the World. In March the company faced total lockdown. The Government offered all employees a furlough scheme but all work had to stop for almost 5 months. We could not process any workshop orders, nor sales, no cash flow and difficulty to respond to customers enquiries.

In June, the directors Roger and Fraser Williams assessed the prospects for the company in the future.
With no new orders, no county shows, no travel and much less confidence from customers life became difficult.
Manufacturing of parts was restricted, created an ongoing problems for supply to customers.

After and seeking much professional and legal advise on trademarks, copyrights and company rescue, the company was obliged to go into liquidation with its creditors on August 11th 2020.

During 25 years of successful trading; Suffolk Sportscrs created almost 400 new replicas. Each car fulfilled the dreams of enthusiastic Suffolk classic owners all over the world. The Suffolk cars will live on for decades; so too will the thousands of memories associated with them.

All owners of Suffolk cars will still need maintenance, service, parts supplies and advise. A small new company is being formed by Philip Glanville; along with members of the Suffolk team. They will provide a full maintenance for all the original Suffolk cars, along with specialist service for all Jaguar cars.

Please contact Philip and Mike Tink at Suffolk Classic Services Ltd.
01728 745055 info@suffolkclassicservices.com

///////

Roger Williams
suffolk@ss100.com
Posted By: Uther

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 03:37 AM

Sad news indeed ☹️
Posted By: TheCustomer

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 04:44 AM

Indeed.

I guess the remanufactured originals market for £500k+ cars is the root cause of this. If you were Jaguar you'd not want someone manufacturing pretty much the same thing for much less money than the factory replicas.

Will
Posted By: mph

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 07:19 AM

I don't see any correlation between the £500k continuation cars and fibreglass replicas. They're different products for different customers.

There are plenty of other Jaguar replica manufacturers that are still in business. Why haven't Jaguar closed them down too ?

I'm sure there's more to this than is revealed in the press release. Roger did have a stroke some time ago and while he was recovering, the running of the company perhaps wasn't as it should have been.

One issue that's been discussed on the internet, in relation to this, is the use of donor identities on replica cars. There are numerous replicas (not only Suffolk) that are registered as XJ6 saloons, for example. Whether this has any direct bearing on the Suffolk saga remains speculation at the moment.
Posted By: pandy

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 07:24 AM

Very sad news indeed. I've long been a huge admirer of the Suffolk Sportscars replicas, and on the occasion that I met him, I found Roger Williams to be a very engaging and enthusiastic fellow.

The business environment is tough enough without a small company having to suffer this sort of corporate bullying. Very heavy handed if true.

A quick trawl of the internet failed to produce anything else on this story. I think Mike is probably right that there's more to this story than meets the eye.
Posted By: ChrisConvertible

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 07:32 AM

Will, OK I had seen an article ages ago on building the six missing lightweight E-types but that that was a one off publicity exercise. Now after googling Re-manufactured Jaguar and looking at Jaguars website Re-manufactured classic page it appears they are mskeking another run of E-types plus going further back to make some D-Types and XKSS. Suffolk made the SS100 copy and now have moved forward to include the C-type plus XK120.

I never realised it but if Jaguar keep going back with limited edition models and Suffolk forward then they will end up making the same style cars. But you would expect a different market, I would not expect someone who can afford a £500,000 car to want a fibreglass copy.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 07:35 AM

Very sad indeed.
Posted By: howard

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by TheCustomer
Indeed.

I guess the remanufactured originals market for £500k+ cars is the root cause of this. If you were Jaguar you'd not want someone manufacturing pretty much the same thing for much less money than the factory replicas.

Will

You can also add in the problem that JLR have with the thieving Chinese who make copies of JLR cars and whose courts use all sorts of excuses to reject complaints. For example the Chinese copy of the Evoque was allowed by the courts on the basis that pictures of the prototype had been seen before the copyright was lodged.

China has built an economy based on IP theft and commercial espionage. On this issue if no other, Trump is right.

The irony is that if Suffolk could hang on for another year or two, its likely they will outlast Jaguar cars anyway. They are in deep trouble once more.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 08:15 AM

Very sad, if indeed it's JLR that forced them to stop 'because we can & we've got more legal budget' then they should be ashamed, it not as if Suffolk pinch any customers
Posted By: John V6

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 08:20 AM

You would have though they could have licensed them & got an income stream but also fixed a cap on sales. I guess they made well under 100 cars pa so really no threat.
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 08:40 AM

Chaps, some of you will be aware that I have a very personal interest in the tale of Suffolk Sports Cars. I have known the chaps for many a long year and have helped out on their stands at shows, been to lunch with them and, of course bought 3 of their cars. It is a great shame that a partially Chinese funded, Indian owned maker of stupid SUV's should find it of benefit to close down a small British company of the type that this country is founded on.
I am visiting the works today to talk to Roger about the new company, " Suffolk Classic Services" which will hopefully be around for a long time not least to service all the existing SS100's and "C" types out there.

I never thought I would say this but "BOO" to Jaguar !!!
Posted By: Mark666

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 08:47 AM

Sad news indeed.

I went down to see them before buying my Morgan, I couldn't afford the £500k price tag of a genuine SS100 but really fancied building an SS100 from their kit. Pic is of us in the test drive car.

[Linked Image]

Unfortunately the price was substantially more than I expected (I had found a price list online).
Posted By: Hawki

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 09:04 AM

Agreed on the price. Very nice cars but very expensive. Quality and low volume costs money.
Posted By: pandy

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by lowebird

I am visiting the works today to talk to Roger about the new company, " Suffolk Classic Services" which will hopefully be around for a long time not least to service all the existing SS100's and "C" types out there.



I'm sure we'll all be very interested to hear whatever you can tell us from the horse's mouth about this whole sorry story.
Posted By: Image

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 09:22 AM

Though I wouldn't have used Howard's turn of phrase, it does sound a bit like Jag's lawyers wanting to eliminate any grey areas in their copyright/IP landscape .... increasing problem now cars are all so much more universally competent mechanically than they were even 30 years ago so are sold on 'style', brand kudos and lifestyle.


K
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 09:57 AM

Sorry to read this but really pleased they will be supporting their loyal customers, Reg in particular.
Posted By: Stephen888

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 10:40 AM

Howard I wholeheartedly agree with your comments.
Posted By: ChrisConvertible

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 11:45 AM

Mark, Fantastic photo. A few years ago I was contemplating either building a Suffolk SS100 as a kit, ordering a Morgan, or a Frontline MGB. The MG won in the end mainly for financial/family/timing and ease of registration and maintenance in my state of Australia. The only SS100 I have seen at a show needed a lot of work to be registered, weird door locks and reinforcement in the doors, retractable seat belts and child seat attachments which is really odd s anew MX5 passes without baby seat bits.

But I would still love a trip to the UK at some stage and visit all of those factories. The whole location looks nice in that photo but not sure Suffolk will have a showroom as such to see if they are mainly a service centre for cars.
Posted By: waikiore

Re: Suffolk Cars - 20/08/20 08:59 PM

A sad state of affairs, I would have thought that Jag should be concentrating on their knitting rather than worrying about others who were no real threat, unfortunately Howard is dead right re the Chinese business model, luckily in the marine industry the public is a little more discerning and stainless that isnt soon shows out in salt water!
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 21/08/20 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by pandy
Originally Posted by lowebird

I am visiting the works today to talk to Roger about the new company, " Suffolk Classic Services" which will hopefully be around for a long time not least to service all the existing SS100's and "C" types out there.



I'm sure we'll all be very interested to hear whatever you can tell us from the horse's mouth about this whole sorry story.

Giles, I put what I thought was a reasonably report of my visit to Suffolk yesterday on the SS100 Owners site and met with not a few alternative views most of which I am not qualified to comment on so please excuse me if I don't reiterate them here. I have declined to make any further comments on the SS100 site as well.
Posted By: howard

Re: Suffolk Cars - 21/08/20 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by CooperMan
Very sad, if indeed it's JLR that forced them to stop 'because we can & we've got more legal budget' then they should be ashamed, it not as if Suffolk pinch any customers


They could well pinch some customers from the "continuation" cars that JLR make. And there is the legal idea that you cant half be a virgin ie ignore Suffolk and not ignore the Chinese companies doing the same thing. A licence would have been the sensible approach since it would give JLR control over the areas in which Suffolk copied JLR's IP.
Posted By: sospan

Re: Suffolk Cars - 21/08/20 10:19 AM

There are a few kitcar companies who do replicas. Jag C and D types, GT40 for example. The most common kits seem to be Cobras, Lotus7 styles. There are some very good versions to be had. I seem to remember one company doing Ferrari fibre glass bodies for MX5 donor cars and Ferrari stopped them selling Ferrari badges, possibly also the bodies. Just imagine a Ferrari 2/3 the size with a piddly 4 cyl engine!
It is a shame that Suffolk have had to stop making new cars as they had a very good reputation and quality. Revenue from sales must be tough to get these days for similar specialist, niche companies. I wonder if a licensing agreement was one option but the sums not adding up? JLR asking too much or up front fees and not based on individual car sales? Very protective trademark attitude?
Posted By: Jens

Re: Suffolk Cars - 21/08/20 12:21 PM

Why don´t Suffolk sell his cars without a Jaguar badge, or with an own badge? After all these years there should no longer be any design protection on an SS100 or a C Type. Am I wrong?
Posted By: TBM

Re: Suffolk Cars - 22/08/20 08:04 AM

Didn't Morgan do something similar to another kitcar manufacturer?
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 22/08/20 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Jens
Why don´t Suffolk sell his cars without a Jaguar badge, or with an own badge? After all these years there should no longer be any design protection on an SS100 or a C Type. Am I wrong?

Noel Edmonds tried that with the "La Rivera" and sold 1 plus 1 for himself. Shame, it was a good idea.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Suffolk Cars - 22/08/20 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by TBM
Didn't Morgan do something similar to another kitcar manufacturer?

yes they did . But Morgan still make that design of car & have copyrighted I believe the shape.
Posted By: pandy

Re: Suffolk Cars - 23/08/20 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by lowebird
Chaps, some of you will be aware that I have a very personal interest in the tale of Suffolk Sports Cars. I have known the chaps for many a long year and have helped out on their stands at shows, been to lunch with them and, of course bought 3 of their cars. It is a great shame that a partially Chinese funded, Indian owned maker of stupid SUV's should find it of benefit to close down a small British company of the type that this country is founded on.
I am visiting the works today to talk to Roger about the new company, " Suffolk Classic Services" which will hopefully be around for a long time not least to service all the existing SS100's and "C" types out there.

I never thought I would say this but "BOO" to Jaguar !!!


How was your trip to the works, Reg ? Did it throw any more light on the whole situation ?
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 23/08/20 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by pandy
Originally Posted by lowebird
Chaps, some of you will be aware that I have a very personal interest in the tale of Suffolk Sports Cars. I have known the chaps for many a long year and have helped out on their stands at shows, been to lunch with them and, of course bought 3 of their cars. It is a great shame that a partially Chinese funded, Indian owned maker of stupid SUV's should find it of benefit to close down a small British company of the type that this country is founded on.
I am visiting the works today to talk to Roger about the new company, " Suffolk Classic Services" which will hopefully be around for a long time not least to service all the existing SS100's and "C" types out there.

I never thought I would say this but "BOO" to Jaguar !!!


How was your trip to the works, Reg ? Did it throw any more light on the whole situation ?


It did Giles and I will 'mail you some of the details. I don't want to put them out here as they will be a personal observation and I am aware of speaking out of turn.
Posted By: pandy

Re: Suffolk Cars - 23/08/20 02:56 PM

Cheers Reg.
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 24/08/20 08:29 AM

Giles, PM sent.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Suffolk Cars - 05/09/20 05:50 AM

This is from the East Anglian Daily Times

Suffolk Sportscars goes into liquidation
Posted By: John V6

Re: Suffolk Cars - 05/09/20 07:17 AM

Ouch. Looks like one the directors took a big hit there. What a waste & a spiteful action by JLR.
Posted By: mutley

Re: Suffolk Cars - 05/09/20 07:41 AM

looking at companies house they did have some assets stock etc, also no real accounts for 4 years
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Suffolk Cars - 06/09/20 09:35 PM

Very stupid on the part of JLR. The existance of Suffolk Sportscars did not take 1 penny of business away from Jaguar and gave them a lot of free publicity. I'm a Jaguar owner but this and other issues would make me think twice about buying another JLR product. I like so much about the car but I have become disillusioned with both the dealer and JLR.
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 07/09/20 11:23 AM

As a long time owner of Suffolk cars ( I've had 3 ) and being quite involved on a personal basis with the Directors, I have found the whole event quite sad however that's that and we must look forward. A new company "Suffolk Classic Services" is going to look after the servicing and provision of spare parts for the SS100 and C Types but on a very much reduced size after all they only built around 350 SS100's over 26 years and they are scatered all around the world so the demand in the UK will not be vast.
As for JLR, well the Jaguar arm is now IMHO a pathetic relic of a once great car company. They built some of the most iconic cars in the world and over different periods had some of the worlds fastest cars but now, if you don't notice the leaper on the boot lid you could be looking at a Vauxhall or a Ford they are so non individual so I will continue to enjoy my SS100 and it's wonderful XK engine until HMG decrees that I'm no longer allowed to drive it.
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Suffolk Cars - 07/09/20 12:01 PM

I think that two things have killed individuality in modern cars.

1) The corporate obsession in making all models have the corporate look, but at the same time making most SUV's look the same.

2) The inexplicable growth in SUV ownership, right up to the ridiculous barges made by Audi, Mercedes, BMW and Porsche.

And the inexorable increase in footprint, when roads stay the same, car parking spaces stay the same.....

Then people who are barely competent to drive, get a huge car with a touch screen and are incapable of doing much with it other than drive in a straight line, expecting the hoi polloi to get out of the way.

The best example of this, I watched from the top deck of a double decker in Devon, when the woman in the SUV coming the other way was so incapable of reversing that we stood for maybe fifteen minutes, as she attempted to reverse.
Posted By: pandy

Re: Suffolk Cars - 07/09/20 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by DaveW

.......The inexplicable growth in SUV ownership, right up to the ridiculous barges made by Audi, Mercedes, BMW and Porsche.


Each to his own, but unless you live right out in the sticks and need the high ground clearance and 4WD this is quite baffling to me. I also have found that the drivers of SUVs over here seem much more aggressive behind the wheel, maybe as a result of the sense of security they get from being in seemingly invincible cars.
Posted By: Steve +8

Re: Suffolk Cars - 07/09/20 12:27 PM

I have a “ridiculous barge” made by Mercedes as my everyday car, why? Because it’s incredibly useful, it carries a huge amount of stuff to/from the garden centre, DIY store, refuse tip etc. We have 13 (no that’s not a typing error) grandchildren so it’s regularly used in 7 seater mode. I do accept that some people have big SUVs but don’t know how to drive them properly but I think it’s a shame that every SUV driver gets tarred with the same brush. My SWMBO drives my Merc. SUV regularly and has no problem handling it, it’s probably a case of confidence. I don’t see van drivers berated for the size of their vehicles taking up road space and my Merc. is smaller than a lot of vans. Perhaps I should start a campaign “SUV Drivers are people too”? laugh2
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 07/09/20 12:54 PM

Steve, it sounds like you need a Winnebago to me...
Posted By: Steve +8

Re: Suffolk Cars - 07/09/20 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Steve, it sounds like you need a Winnebago to me...


Can you imagine the abuse that would generate scared, mind you we have two more grandkids on the way so maybe.... laugh2
15 grandkids sounds crazy but SWMBO has four sons from her previous marriage and I have two, so six sons producing 15 kids is only (!) 2 1/2 each.

p.s. I’m trying to get Christmas abolished spend sos
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 07/09/20 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by N22MOG
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Steve, it sounds like you need a Winnebago to me...


Can you imagine the abuse that would generate scared, mind you we have two more grandkids on the way so maybe.... laugh2
15 grandkids sounds crazy but SWMBO has four sons from her previous marriage and I have two, so six sons producing 15 kids is only (!) 2 1/2 each.

p.s. I’m trying to get Christmas abolished spend sos

What a fantastic family you have around you, very rare to hear of a "proper" family these days, I sympathize with you over Christmas though a nightmare.

We have three grandchildren sprinkled around our three youngsters and we have a complete family day once in a while at an event such as Red Bull Air Race or a Duxford open day and it's good and pretty full on, this would take on a whole new meaning if you all had a get together.

We have a few Winnebago's parked up down here as temporary accommodation on farms prior to planning permission being granted, it's a well known loop hole down here justifying the need to be on site 24hrs tending livestock. They don't move so for that we are thankful as you say they are go large big time.
On the odd occasion there is one on the move it is a bit of a nightmare on our narrow roads I have to say, no different from the artics delivering our food though, we're big on patience in Devon wink.

The SUV attitude I think comes about when we see Yummy +1 brat being transported around, whenever you see one packed to the gunwhales with kit or people it all makes sense unlike us owning three cars for the two of us spend
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 07/09/20 03:36 PM

Until we moved up to Norfolk from the M25 car park area, SWMBO used to drive our Mercedes Motorhome everywhere as it was our only vehicle but being only 25' long she had no problems.
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Suffolk Cars - 07/09/20 06:54 PM

Watch out for me Reg - drove mine up to Beccles today for a day boat hire boat
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 08/09/20 09:02 AM

Clipper, if you are going to be in the area of Wroxham, do drop me a p.m. and you will be most welcome to come round for a natter.
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: Suffolk Cars - 08/09/20 10:24 AM

Apart from useful load-carrying, an SUV has better visibility being higher up. My Mum likes to be able to see the view more easily, and it is good to be able to see more at bends and junctions. Plus, you don't get dazzled at night so much!
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Suffolk Cars - 08/09/20 02:21 PM

The overtly large SUV from Mercedes Benz (ML class) I am currently piloting does bring some strengths and weaknesses.

I am not certain the generalisation that ALL drivers of SUV are aggressive self important monsters. This is the first one I have had and some of it was to find out what all the fuss is about and we also needed to move the M-i-L and they do offer useful space. I have never troubled the off-road ability beyond main road snow and some trotting about in grassed fields. I always loved having a decent estate (E-Class and an A6 model at various points) which combined most of those roles as well. I think there are issues with them that increase the intimidation factor which I myself noticed when I had the E-Estate.

I used to hate having one behind me even if it was not too close as it blocked my working rear vision with it's big flat front and width. This reduced my ability to predict and react (bikes filtering on the motorway for example) which annoyed me when they were behind. The headlight height can be annoying but the advent of better headlamps and selective lighting especially has improved this to a degree. I used to hate having one in front of me for much the same reason, limited view and reaction time.

I do find that the additional height and resulting driving position view does mean that I can predict problems earlier and so I am actually more relaxed in an SUV vs the E-Estate. However this is tempered with the fact that you need to be as 2.1 tons on stilts needs more room to maneuver so if anything you should leave a bigger gaps anyway. Especially in the snow and rain where mass has a mind of it's own when you are trying to swing or stop it! I think this is where I see the worst activities on the road, people with a better view will compromise other margins of safety such as reaction room to the car in front. When you combine this with the car in front finding it's rear view mirror going dark with the SUV's grill I can see why it is intimidating.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Suffolk Cars - 09/09/20 11:44 AM

Richard,

there is nothing unreasonable in running 3 cars for 2 people, when one is a Morgan. joy

We have three cars.... but do we need 3 cars with a total of 22 cylinders, 7.8L and about 1200 bhp? Of course not. But we are in the last 10 years of large, multi cylinder ICE power units and I'm determined to have my fun before we go electric, which we will. I've spent 52 years enjoying ICE powered vehicles, I understand them and am comfortable with them.
I also like excess...

But as to SUVs.... they are largely fashion statements and it seems to me they are driven by people who would be terrified sitting in a Morgan. I think cars should be taxed not only by their CO2, but also by the space they occupy on the road, length x width, and by their weight. I suspect that this would result in SUVs falling out of favour.....
Posted By: Steve +8

Re: Suffolk Cars - 09/09/20 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Peter J


But as to SUVs.... they are largely fashion statements and it seems to me they are driven by people who would be terrified sitting in a Morgan.


Mine is definitely not a fashion statement but, as I said earlier, a highly practical vehicle for my needs. I suppose I could buy a minibus and avoid the SUV hatred.
I must be the exception to the rule because I drive an SUV AND a Morgan (and SWMBO’s Porsche) and am terrified of none of them.

Come on guys let’s drop this “all SUV drivers are ridiculous” attitude and judge each individual on their merits rather than broad sweeping generalisations. It’s a bit like saying all Morgan drivers are old farts stuck in the past wearing flat caps and smoking pipes (with apologies to any Morgan owners who wear a flat cap and smoke a pipe) laugh2
I don’t normally get on my soapbox but this is one subject that gets my goat soapbox
Posted By: SALMO

Re: Suffolk Cars - 09/09/20 12:46 PM

Good comments on vehicles.

These days cars mean less to me than they did in the past. My Morgan is a fun car, which I also like to maintain myself and of course for the driving experience it gives.

I own an SUV, wouldn’t be without it, but I am in the countryside a good deal.....
Great driving position
I have a large garden so am constantly delivering greens to the tip
can load it with fishing gear (and I need a lot!),
will go down or up off road rough tracks
Don’t get stuck in mud
it only need an annual clean

Soon be in the market for replacement and won’t hesitate.
Posted By: GRB

Re: Suffolk Cars - 09/09/20 01:13 PM

+1 to that N22MOG
Posted By: Ncik P

Re: Suffolk Cars - 09/09/20 02:01 PM

+2 to that N22MOG. We have two SUV’s as well as our 3.7 Roadster and an F458 within our household, I wonder how many low sports cars Peter J has owned. The above rather offending comments are the reason I very rarely contribute on this site.
Sorry on this occasion I just couldn’t resist reacting.
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: Suffolk Cars - 09/09/20 07:08 PM


thumbs

Originally Posted by N22MOG


Mine is definitely not a fashion statement but, as I said earlier, a highly practical vehicle for my needs. I suppose I could buy a minibus and avoid the SUV hatred.
I must be the exception to the rule because I drive an SUV AND a Morgan (and SWMBO’s Porsche) and am terrified of none of them.

Come on guys let’s drop this “all SUV drivers are ridiculous” attitude and judge each individual on their merits rather than broad sweeping generalisations. It’s a bit like saying all Morgan drivers are old farts stuck in the past wearing flat caps and smoking pipes (with apologies to any Morgan owners who wear a flat cap and smoke a pipe) laugh2
I don’t normally get on my soapbox but this is one subject that gets my goat soapbox
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Suffolk Cars - 09/09/20 08:35 PM

I used to drive a small car but I have now decided that the possibility of a collision with a SUV could be very dangerous. I have therefore decid to buy something suitable for survival on today's roads.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: DavidR

Re: Suffolk Cars - 09/09/20 08:40 PM

Ah a cute little Ferret, try keeping that down your trousers!
Posted By: ChrisConvertible

Re: Suffolk Cars - 10/09/20 01:13 PM

How did we get from Jaguar SS100's to SUV'S? That is like changing the topic from Chocolate to Brussels Sprouts.

Originally Posted by Peter J
I think cars should be taxed not only by their CO2, but also by the space they occupy on the road, length x width, and by their weight. I suspect that this would result in SUVs falling out of favour.....



In Australia cars are taxed on their weight. But the difference is not enough to make anyone change cars, just enough to whinge about it.

You don't mention height, my thoughts are that pedestrians are much safer if the can see the traffic behind the car they are waiting for, whether that it is car behind the car or next to it in another lane. Many times i have seen a vehicle stop and wave a pedestrian across only for the pedestrian to nearly be cleaned up by a car in the inside lane. With the number of vans and SUV's I feel being a pedestrian is a less safe than when most cars were a lower height and generally could be seen over.
Posted By: MJF

Re: Suffolk Cars - 10/09/20 01:38 PM

The problem with taxing cars based on weight is that electric cars are very heavy. A Tesla model X / Porsche Taycan is as heavy or heavier than a Range Rover which would undermine a drive towards Ev's.
Posted By: Image

Re: Suffolk Cars - 10/09/20 01:51 PM

Taxing by weight may not be politically expedient but in some ways not a bad idea ..... weight will reflect the wear and tear on the roads and, as weight more or less corresponds to amount of materials used, and amount of material relates to environmental impact of manufacture there's worse ways to share the tax burden. The fact that much of the environmental impact of EVs is 'out of sight out of mind' in the form of manufacture and generation, doesn't mean they should be allowed to breeze past it because politicians feel promoting EVs will make them look good.

K
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 10/09/20 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisConvertible
How did we get from Jaguar SS100's to SUV'S? That is like changing the topic from Chocolate to Brussels Sprouts.

Originally Posted by Peter J
I think cars should be taxed not only by their CO2, but also by the space they occupy on the road, length x width, and by their weight. I suspect that this would result in SUVs falling out of favour.....



In Australia cars are taxed on their weight. But the difference is not enough to make anyone change cars, just enough to whinge about it.

You don't mention height, my thoughts are that pedestrians are much safer if the can see the traffic behind the car they are waiting for, whether that it is car behind the car or next to it in another lane. Many times i have seen a vehicle stop and wave a pedestrian across only for the pedestrian to nearly be cleaned up by a car in the inside lane. With the number of vans and SUV's I feel being a pedestrian is a less safe than when most cars were a lower height and generally could be seen over.

Oh the joys of the TM thread drift. You can never say this forum is boreing nor predicdable.
Posted By: Jays ex Nero

Re: Suffolk Cars - 10/09/20 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by N22MOG
Originally Posted by Peter J


But as to SUVs.... they are largely fashion statements and it seems to me they are driven by people who would be terrified sitting in a Morgan.


Mine is definitely not a fashion statement but, as I said earlier, a highly practical vehicle for my needs. I suppose I could buy a minibus and avoid the SUV hatred.
I must be the exception to the rule because I drive an SUV AND a Morgan (and SWMBO’s Porsche) and am terrified of none of them.

Come on guys let’s drop this “all SUV drivers are ridiculous” attitude and judge each individual on their merits rather than broad sweeping generalisations. It’s a bit like saying all Morgan drivers are old farts stuck in the past wearing flat caps and smoking pipes (with apologies to any Morgan owners who wear a flat cap and smoke a pipe) laugh2
I don’t normally get on my soapbox but this is one subject that gets my goat soapbox


I totally agree with you. Sad that some on here have a rather blinkered view of SUVs. No doubt others have an equally blinkered view about old farts driving Morgans, two seater sports cars etc. Just because you drive something like a Morgan doesn’t necessarily make you a better driver than someone who drives a SUV or any other car for that matter.

And getting back to the topic of the sad demise of Suffolk Cars, I spent some time in their stand at Goodwood and loved both their cars and their enthusiasm. Sad that JLR have done this...they certainly have taken their time about it.
Posted By: PeterG

Re: Suffolk Cars - 10/09/20 09:30 PM

I have to say I really like an SUV as my daily drive, my current one is the fourth SUV in a row. They take up similar space as a large estate car on the road and in most car parks, ones I visit anyway. Current one also has sports car like performance with top speed of 170 odd and 0-60 in about 3.5 secs. Plus it was on a building site today and looks pretty good covered in mud smile Do I buy one because I'm vain or want the latest fashionable car more than likely 😁

As for Suffolk Cars, I do understand Jaguars point about IP but I'd of thought they must of been able to overlook this one compared to a mass production factory churning out fake cars. Real shame.
Posted By: The Austrian

Re: Suffolk Cars - 11/09/20 12:08 AM

Oh God! I have got two 4WD SUV's im my garage.
They both have better fuel economy than the small 4/4 Morgan, not to mention the M3W which was even worse than the 4/4. At least I can drive only one car at the same time so the number of cars does not increase my fuel consumption. Getting in and out of a SUV is so much easier than the same procedure with the Morgan. I drove 4/4 cars all of my business lifetime (for a reason) and I do not understand all the fuzz about SUV's from people who drive other cars, especially when the other cars are sports cars driven for fun.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Suffolk Cars - 11/09/20 06:52 AM

I'd love one of those 4x4 crewcab pickups. It would fit most of my requirements. Unfortunately, my drive is only 4.5 metres so they won't fit ;(
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Suffolk Cars - 11/09/20 09:22 AM

I just don't like big cars. Never have. We've had a few SUVs as rentals, I've passengered in loads of others. Not one has wowed me.

If we need space I rent something, I would hate to be lugging one around every day. However quick they are.

Happy to be different.
Posted By: mph

Re: Suffolk Cars - 11/09/20 11:10 AM

I think many like the elevated driving position that an SUV offers. They're also easier to get in and out of and they generally have a smaller footprint that an estate car.

Many are based on "jacked up" versions of a saloon car - and what's six inches between friends ?

Then what do I know, I'm thinking of buying a KIA Stinger wink ?
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: Suffolk Cars - 11/09/20 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by mph
I think many like the elevated driving position that an SUV offers.
.....


thumbs
Posted By: Paul F

Re: Suffolk Cars - 11/09/20 12:57 PM

One thing that surprised me was when I asked my 89 year old father which of our cars he found easiest to get in or out of. Mrs F has a Mini Clubman and I have a Disco 4. He was emphatic that the Disco is easier - if I remember to lower the suspension. We keep the Disco because of its towing capability. When time comes to replace it, it will most likely be a crew-cab pickup unless our finances change. I really don’t want to draw masses of capital for the next car - unless Mrs F approves a Plus Four of course.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 11/09/20 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by PeterG
I have to say I really like an SUV as my daily drive, my current one is the fourth SUV in a row. They take up similar space as a large estate car on the road and in most car parks, ones I visit anyway. Current one also has sports car like performance with top speed of 170 odd and 0-60 in about 3.5 secs. Plus it was on a building site today and looks pretty good covered in mud smile Do I buy one because I'm vain or want the latest fashionable car more than likely 😁

As for Suffolk Cars, I do understand Jaguars point about IP but I'd of thought they must of been able to overlook this one compared to a mass production factory churning out fake cars. Real shame.

I love it, I laughed out loud isn't that why any of us buy a toy or car to be enjoyed we'd all drive around in a Tranny else with a couple of windows popped in DIY styly laugh2 with discount parts freely available at your nearest Romany encampment..
Posted By: SFG

Re: Suffolk Cars - 11/09/20 05:52 PM

I have an SUV but I think it’s based on a c-class saloon, no-one would gripe about the size if I had a standard c-class. Or a 4wd saloon. They’re a bit taller, which is nice, and I suppose they’re a bit more expensive , which might be objectionable, for some reason.
Just because ladies also drive them doesn’t make them any larger than saloons either. Why the emotion?
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Suffolk Cars - 11/09/20 09:55 PM

Guilty as charged m'lud, recently went from an A3 Sportback to its jacked up crossover Q3 Sportback with a slightly larger footprint. Great car though - glad I went for it.

Posted By: DavidR

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Clipper
Guilty as charged m'lud, recently went from an A3 Sportback to its jacked up crossover Q3 Sportback with a slightly larger footprint. Great car though - glad I went for it.

Same here, we have XC60 a lovely drive, relaxed and seats 4 adults and their luggage with comfort.

Love it that people get so worked up about the different cars others drive, so what about middle aged men in sports cars!
somestick
Posted By: Rob Thornton

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by DavidR
Originally Posted by Clipper
Guilty as charged m'lud, recently went from an A3 Sportback to its jacked up crossover Q3 Sportback with a slightly larger footprint. Great car though - glad I went for it.

Same here, we have XC60 a lovely drive, relaxed and seats 4 adults and their luggage with comfort.

Love it that people get so worked up about the different cars others drive, so what about middle aged men in sports cars!
somestick


+1 for the XC60 but think that 'middle' should be changed to 'old' in the second sentence!
Posted By: DavidR

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Rob Thornton
Originally Posted by DavidR
Originally Posted by Clipper
Guilty as charged m'lud, recently went from an A3 Sportback to its jacked up crossover Q3 Sportback with a slightly larger footprint. Great car though - glad I went for it.

Same here, we have XC60 a lovely drive, relaxed and seats 4 adults and their luggage with comfort.

Love it that people get so worked up about the different cars others drive, so what about middle aged men in sports cars!
somestick


+1 for the XC60 but think that 'middle' should be changed to 'old' in the second sentence!



rofl
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 05:16 PM

The SUV "thing" always makes me smile, I will confess to not being a fan unless they are used for the designed purpose (never quite sure what that is) i.e stuffed to the gunwhales with bodies or kit.

I think the Bugatti Veyron is possibly the ugliest large car around and fairly expensive but I understand some people covet it as I do my Traditional Plus 8 and for that reason I really don't see the point in anyone rubbishing a particular shape or classification of vehicle as thankfully we are all different.

Thank goodness for the plethora of choice, bring on the hydrogen Morgan I say smile
Posted By: bmgermany

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 05:29 PM

We discuss about SUV and drive such unreasonable cars as our Morgans ?
innocent
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 05:31 PM

Of course, we are all still students remember - all theory with zero responsibility and just enjoying life laugh2
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 05:39 PM

I think that the SUV debate in the UK is caused by the width of most of our minor and unclassified roads, which are frequently used as alternative roads to avoid congestion on main roads.
We have an unclassified road that runs from our village on the A36 south of Salisbury to Downton, a small town the other side of the Avon valley, most of the road is just about wide enough for two vehicles to pass, but some is not. .
The A36 from Southampton to Salisbury and beyond is a primary "Trunk" road and the A338 from Poole to the A420 near Oxford is a secondary main road. In Salisbury the A338 intersects the A354 to Blandford and Weymouth.
Crossing Salisbury on the A36 to join the A354 can take 25 minutes on a busy afternoon to drive just 5 miles. So drivers cut across to the A338, avoiding the Salisbury ring road.

I have been told by a retired traffic engineer that the vast majority of these unclassified roads remain unaltered from the post WW1 period of the 1900s, when cars were few and far between and much narrower.
My first car, a Ford 100e from the 1950s, and a length of 151.75 in (3,854 mm) and a width of 60.5 in (1,537 mm). Cars from the 1930s were narrower still, the Austin 7 was 1.25m wide.
So a road which would comfortably allow two cars of less than 1.5m wide to pass is more challenging when two cars of 2m width want to pass. Add to this the presence of potholes on the side of the road where the paved surface has broken down so drivers of expensive SUVs with 21 or 22 inch wheels and low profile tyres are reluctant to pull over and risk damaging their wheels and tyres. Drivers of Land Rovers and similar vehicles don't worry, nor do drivers of delivery vans. They pull over and help oncoming traffic pass.

My experience of driving in Europe is that the minor roads are wider and in far better state of repair, or have so little traffic that the chances of meeting another vehicle is minute.

So, the issue is not really SUVs, but the volume of traffic and the appalling quality of England's unclassified roads.

BTW, I still don't like driving them, I hate the high up sitting position. Many feel otherwise and I'm happy for them to drive what they enjoy.
Posted By: bmgermany

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Of course, we are all still students remember - all theory with zero responsibility and just enjoying life laugh2


Ok...

I also drive a reasonable car! My buisiness car is a Skoda Kodiaq... laugh2
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by bmgermany
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Of course, we are all still students remember - all theory with zero responsibility and just enjoying life laugh2


Ok...

I also drive a reasonable car! My buisiness car is a Skoda Kodiaq... laugh2

laugh2 Of course we all have to have something sensible to drive, I borrow my wifes Polo GTI which has more power than my Plus 8 but handles better and does twice the mpg grin2
It's more interesting than my Fiesta Titanium diesel which is very accomplished at going from A to B end of story .....

p.s. My neighbour has the 1.0ltr Kodiaq and he loves it.
Posted By: Gordon D

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 07:18 PM

Everyone needs an escape! For different people it's a different escape route.

I know what mine is drive then wine

Seriously though, I agree with Peter, the road system has not kept up with the pace of change in the motor industry. Driving education has also neglected to inform students that they might end up driving a road that has no white line in the middle, many of our roads in this area are like this and many of the drivers I meet (and not just in SUVs) don't know how to drive on them.
Posted By: bmgermany

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 07:20 PM

I thin
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by bmgermany
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Of course, we are all still students remember - all theory with zero responsibility and just enjoying life laugh2


Ok...

I also drive a reasonable car! My buisiness car is a Skoda Kodiaq... laugh2

laugh2 Of course we all have to have something sensible to drive, I borrow my wifes Polo GTI which has more power than my Plus 8 but handles better and does twice the mpg grin2
It's more interesting than my Fiesta Titanium diesel which is very accomplished at going from A to B end of story .....

p.s. My neighbour has the 1.0ltr Kodiaq and he loves it.


I think a little Polo is much more acceptable than any SUV
laugh2

My excuse for my "huge" 150 HP SUV is that I need it to save fuel ...... when I use it to transport my 4/4 on my trailer to vacation destinations happy3 woohoo
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by bmgermany
I thin
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by bmgermany
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Of course, we are all still students remember - all theory with zero responsibility and just enjoying life laugh2


Ok...

I also drive a reasonable car! My buisiness car is a Skoda Kodiaq... laugh2

laugh2 Of course we all have to have something sensible to drive, I borrow my wifes Polo GTI which has more power than my Plus 8 but handles better and does twice the mpg grin2
It's more interesting than my Fiesta Titanium diesel which is very accomplished at going from A to B end of story .....

p.s. My neighbour has the 1.0ltr Kodiaq and he loves it.


I think a little Polo is much more acceptable than any SUV
laugh2

My excuse for my "huge" 150 HP SUV is that I need it to save fuel ...... when I use it to transport my 4/4 on my trailer to vacation destinations happy3 woohoo


Brilliant and spot on with the thread rofl rofl
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 08:24 PM

Went for a test drive in an XC40 and after a mile it was like driving the A3 - but went for the Q3 Sportback but basically all modern quality cars are fantastic and I have not had a fault for the last 8 years in three cars - keep fingers crossed!
Posted By: Rob Thornton

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 08:55 PM

[/quote]
Brilliant and spot on with the thread rofl rofl
[/quote]

Whilst thread drift is inevitable I think that this is a bit wide of the mark in this instance!
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 12/09/20 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Rob Thornton
[/quote]
Brilliant and spot on with the thread rofl rofl


Whilst thread drift is inevitable I think that this is a bit wide of the mark in this instance![/quote]
Dead right of course - it was the drift I was referring to, he said fibbing thumbs
Posted By: Rob Thornton

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/09/20 06:47 AM

Thanks for the clarification Rich. I obviously misunderstood your drift if you know what I mean!
If I could post a suitable imogee thingummy I would do but I don't seem to be able to transpose these in the full text editor for some reason.
Posted By: DavidR

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/09/20 09:24 AM

Talking of drifting, I wonder if mine would? The XC60 that is, I know the Aero does woohoo
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/09/20 09:27 AM

Go on David give it a go you know you want to.. there must be things you can switch off that will let you laugh2
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/09/20 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Clipper
Guilty as charged m'lud, recently went from an A3 Sportback to its jacked up crossover Q3 Sportback with a slightly larger footprint. Great car though - glad I went for it.


Perhaps one should define the difference between a cross-over, which is largely the modern replacement for a station wagon, and something that has twice the weight, a big engine to power it, and is more akin to a commercial vehicle or a light truck than it is to a car.
Posted By: DavidR

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/09/20 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Go on David give it a go you know you want to.. there must be things you can switch off that will let you laugh2


The Mrs shocked2
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Go on David give it a go you know you want to.. there must be things you can switch off that will let you laugh2


I know the C63 can be drifted..I've seen the "expert" do it at Brooklands. But me? Not a chance....
I'm not good enough and I can't afford to bin it.... or the tyres....
Posted By: sospan

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 12:07 PM

Went to a drift day at Pembrey track a few years ago with Ray. Watching the attempts at drifting on one of the bends. A big variation in ability observed! Many Japanese cars there. They apparently have a big drift scene in Japan so parts to convert the car to drift are available.
There was a tyre guy there being kept permanently busy. Strong burning rubber smokescreens with pops as tyres gave up.
A few good drivers consistently creating smokescreens like a WW1 destroyer laying a smokescreen!
Scandinavian flicks to throw out the tear and throttle feathering clearly seen.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Peter J
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Go on David give it a go you know you want to.. there must be things you can switch off that will let you laugh2


I know the C63 can be drifted..I've seen the "expert" do it at Brooklands. But me? Not a chance....
I'm not good enough and I can't afford to bin it.... or the tyres....

I've seen some crazies doing it at Goodwood but it strikes me as an expensive hobby, I don't blame you leaving it to others.
Posted By: pandy

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 01:02 PM

Thread drift.......about drifting !!

This really is top notch work chaps. Keep it up.
Posted By: pandy

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Peter J
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Go on David give it a go you know you want to.. there must be things you can switch off that will let you laugh2


I know the C63 can be drifted..I've seen the "expert" do it at Brooklands. But me? Not a chance....
I'm not good enough and I can't afford to bin it.... or the tyres....

I've seen some crazies doing it at Goodwood but it strikes me as an expensive hobby, I don't blame you leaving it to others.


Quite right. The correct reaction of a Morgan driver to these sort of shenanigans should be to pull down his tweed cap, have a puff on the faithful old briar pipe, whilst muttering “when I were a lad, we used to take pride in how many miles we could get out of a pair of rear covers”.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 01:33 PM

Eh Lad, nice remoulded cross-plys as well.

I back in the early 70s I had a Ford 100E that I could easily drift, at very low speed, especially in winter: 20bhp and narrow hard (old) rubber cross ply tyres on a rigid rear axle and cart springs.
I suppose it is all down to the relative amount of grip and power, irrespective of the absolute numbers....
Posted By: Heinz

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 02:20 PM

For this reason, I have completed a safety training where the rear axle is placed on a skid plate. The roadway, or rather it was a wide place, was sprayed with a kind of soapy water to earn control and car behave at low speeds.
Posted By: nick w

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 02:22 PM

It was hard to get my Sunbeam Rapier around any corners at all when it was on crossplys!
Mind you, I was 17......which is why the dealer had refused to sell me a TR2 I really wanted.
Nick
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 03:31 PM

Thruxton used to offer advanced skills courses with a car that had a casters/pump unit fitted so it could simulate wet break away. An hour in that please a little time on the track in the new toy sound like a present for christmas from the good lady. Lots of run off area and no one coming the other way. Just wait until the rears are down low and need replacement then have some fun.

Given my old 2WD E63 had a habit of being a bit tail happy it could just save you NCB on a wet diesel covered roundabout one cold morning scared
Posted By: Fingles

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 03:38 PM

Mmmm...symapthy for Suffolk Sportcars didn't last long on this thread confused2
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Fingles
Mmmm...symapthy for Suffolk Sportcars didn't last long on this thread confused2


I still feel sorry for them and the situation JLR created, but thread drift is TM normality
Posted By: KEVFITZ

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 04:37 PM

Thread drift..what you on about? !!!


Anyhow..anybody keep chickens?
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 04:37 PM

I thought talkmorghan was an anagram of thread drift ?
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by KEVFITZ
Thread drift..what you on about? !!!

Anyhow..anybody keep chickens?


Naa, but I did roast one yesterday, accompanied with Yorkshire Puddings thumbs
Posted By: Image

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 04:47 PM

If there's leftovers in the fridge you'd qualify smile

K
Posted By: KEVFITZ

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 04:48 PM

Jon

Can I have your car if it goes badly tomorrow at the back doctor ?..(cant spell chiropractor)


Even the mini will do..just something to remember you by !!
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 04:53 PM

Careful, if he can't cure me I'll have to cancel painting your shed !
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 05:55 PM

Anybody else got an interesting chicken shed ?

[Linked Image]
Posted By: pandy

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by CooperMan
Originally Posted by KEVFITZ
Thread drift..what you on about? !!!

Anyhow..anybody keep chickens?


Naa, but I did roast one yesterday, accompanied with Yorkshire Puddings thumbs


I know that can be controversial for some folk, but I totally agree with you. Yorkshire pudding with ALL roasts, not just beef.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by pandy

I know that can be controversial for some folk, but I totally agree with you. Yorkshire pudding with ALL roasts, not just beef.


Yorkshire pudding, roast and mashed potatoes, broad beans, peas and carrots, smothered with a nice thick onion and mushroom gravy, with a good splodge of creamed horseradish on the side. You don't even need any meat.
Posted By: KEVFITZ

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 07:17 PM

Anyway back to Suffolk Cars....
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by KEVFITZ
Anyway back to Suffolk Cars....


I wonder if the owner liked Yorkshire Puddings innocent
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Yorkshire pudding, roast and mashed potatoes, broad beans, peas and carrots, smothered with a nice thick onion and mushroom gravy, with a good splodge of creamed horseradish on the side. You don't even need any meat.


That's not fair, food pron at this time of day, now dinner is going to be a pale victory......
Posted By: Heinz

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 08:06 PM

I think the wide threaddrift is related to the fact that we find it too horrible what is happening. A small company is deprived of its livelihood because a car manufacturer who has nothing to do with his tradition but his name is throwing up. And that is why we have avoided the bad subject. This thread is actually not about SUVs but about the survival of a small company that is conscious of tradition. I would never describe Suffolk as a kit car company but as a manufacturer committed to the old Jaguars. Even if it has been said before many pages of this thread, I will gladly repeat it. JLR is fighting against the values of its own past that it has not nurtured itself.
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/09/20 10:54 PM

Speaking of Suffolk - I'll have a pint thanks cheers

PS. Giles will know what I mean smile
Posted By: pandy

Re: Suffolk Cars - 15/09/20 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Heinz
I think the wide threaddrift is related to the fact that we find it too horrible what is happening. A small company is deprived of its livelihood because a car manufacturer who has nothing to do with his tradition but his name is throwing up. And that is why we have avoided the bad subject. This thread is actually not about SUVs but about the survival of a small company that is conscious of tradition. I would never describe Suffolk as a kit car company but as a manufacturer committed to the old Jaguars. Even if it has been said before many pages of this thread, I will gladly repeat it. JLR is fighting against the values of its own past that it has not nurtured itself.


Quite so.

What’s more, JLR’S bullying behavior doesn’t stop me wanting a Suffolk Sportscars SS100, but it does put me off buying a car from Jaguar themselves.

No Adnams for me this week Peter, as we’re in Sardinia. Strictly ichnusa while we’re here (the unfiltered ichnusa is very nice). cheers
Posted By: ChrisConvertible

Re: Suffolk Cars - 15/09/20 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by pandy
What’s more, JLR’S bullying behavior doesn’t stop me wanting a Suffolk Sportscars SS100, but it does put me off buying a car from Jaguar themselves.


100% agree. Three cars I had on my "I would really like one list" is a Morgan +4, Suffolk SS100 and frontline MGB and the list has not changed at all. I did end up choosing the MGB but not due to JLR bullying as I made the decision earlier this year, Being able to buy a car locally built and keep 6 workers in work during the COVID shutdown was part of the decision.
Posted By: Hawki

Re: Suffolk Cars - 15/09/20 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Heinz
I think the wide threaddrift is related to the fact that we find it too horrible what is happening. A small company is deprived of its livelihood because a car manufacturer who has nothing to do with his tradition but his name is throwing up. And that is why we have avoided the bad subject. This thread is actually not about SUVs but about the survival of a small company that is conscious of tradition. I would never describe Suffolk as a kit car company but as a manufacturer committed to the old Jaguars. Even if it has been said before many pages of this thread, I will gladly repeat it. JLR is fighting against the values of its own past that it has not nurtured itself.

Jaguar is not the company it once was and is all about generating cash for the parent company. Let’s hope Morgan don’t go the same way and lose much of what makes them special.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Suffolk Cars - 15/09/20 08:34 AM

I wonder if the 'Cease and Desist' notice came through out of the blue, or there had been any dialogue/requests made beforehand.

Speaking from experience with IP in publishing , there is sometimes an attempt to find a compromise - making suggestions for slight changes, or amendments. Only when these were ignored or point blank rejected without discussion, did we send in the big guns.
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 15/09/20 09:09 AM

Chaps, as you are all aware, I have been very close to SSC and I don't intend to fan the flames here, there's no point however the good news is that the new company "Suffolk Classic Services" is alive and well but not making any more cars. They will do service, parts and generally look after the existing SS100's and C Types. I hestitate to talk about the few cars that were/are for sale at the works, they are mostly on commission I think but still worth a look if you are interested.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Suffolk Cars - 15/09/20 09:09 AM

Someone on pistonheads has offered an alternative viewpoint. Don't shoot the messenger.

Originally Posted by pistonheads
Of course, the other scenario is that the owner, who is the debtor has the advantage of using a letter from JLR and a supposed slow down due to C19 to crystallise his loss for tax purposes, dump the employee liabilities overnight and retain first dibs on clean slating the operation if he desires.
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 15/09/20 09:10 AM

Of course I ment consignment not commission-----what a twit !!
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Suffolk Cars - 15/09/20 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by pandy
No Adnams for me this week Peter, as we’re in Sardinia. Strictly ichnusa while we’re here (the unfiltered ichnusa is very nice). cheers

As I write I am drinking a very nice Poretti unfiltered. Unfortunately no longer an independent but now part of the Carlsberg group, a nice drop non the less.

[Linked Image]

The "3 Luppoli", by the way, are hops. cheers
Posted By: Perry_P_M3W

Re: Suffolk Cars - 18/09/20 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by Hawki
Originally Posted by Heinz
I think the wide threaddrift is related to the fact that we find it too horrible what is happening. A small company is deprived of its livelihood because a car manufacturer who has nothing to do with his tradition but his name is throwing up. And that is why we have avoided the bad subject. This thread is actually not about SUVs but about the survival of a small company that is conscious of tradition. I would never describe Suffolk as a kit car company but as a manufacturer committed to the old Jaguars. Even if it has been said before many pages of this thread, I will gladly repeat it. JLR is fighting against the values of its own past that it has not nurtured itself.

Jaguar is not the company it once was and is all about generating cash for the parent company. Let’s hope Morgan don’t go the same way and lose much of what makes them special.



Not sure how to take that. JLR was alway a company that was interested in making money. They were never a charity! All companies are there to make money. MMC is just as interested in making a profit now vs. before they were sold. That part never changes and you would be hard pressed to find any company who is doing what they are for the sake of the buyer. Never happens, unfortunately for us. smile

As a simple example, VW Group does look to all the brands to turn a profit and contribute to the bottom line. However hypothetically, Audi AG can report massive profits across the global brand yet Audi UK is deep in the red. Without boring you with all the details, Audi AG could very well be happy with that for many reasons.

In fairness to Jaguar, their new owners have been VERY hands off and have just let Jaguar get on with it. I recall the parent company's CEO stating something along those lines.

it's quite sad that Suffolk are no longer. I was quite interested in pulling the trigger on their C Type last year! However, as with all things, there is always two sides to every story and a company as large as Jaguar don't normally comment on such matters.

In regards to Jaguar fitting abasing the values of it's own past - it is their past and any company has the right to intellectual property/design etc. I am certain that if a company in China came out with a car that looked the spitting image of Morgan at a fraction of the price, this whole forum would be up in arms. Or if I set up a company to build a 'classic' 4/4, MMC's lawyers would be at my door in an instant.

Without all the facts, I don't think it's fair to place full blame on JLR. Again, it's very very unfortunate but JLR should and has the right to their company designs/name etc. Many Ford Cobra replica companies pay a license to allow this to continue. Perhaps the business case wasn't viable for Suffolk to invest such a thing. Here's hoping they can regroup and find another niche to fill.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 18/09/20 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Perry_P_M3W

In regards to Jaguar fitting abasing the values of it's own past - it is their past and any company has the right to intellectual property/design etc.


Quite true, and they must also accept the consequences of the actions that they take as a result - for examples sales falling because people don't like their treatment of Suffolk Sportscars.

Originally Posted by Perry_P_M3W

I am certain that if a company in China came out with a car that looked the spitting image of Morgan at a fraction of the price, this whole forum would be up in arms. Or if I set up a company to build a 'classic' 4/4, MMC's lawyers would be at my door in an instant.


But Morgan cars are currently in production. If JLR were still producing the SS100 and the C Type it would be an entirely different matter.

Originally Posted by Perry_P_M3W

Without all the facts, I don't think it's fair to place full blame on JLR. Again, it's very very unfortunate but JLR should and has the right to their company designs/name etc.


Jaguar's refusal to comment is a significant part of the unavailability of those facts. If they refuse to tell us the real reason for their action, they must accept that we will look at the available facts, weigh up the balance of probabilities, and draw our own conclusions.

As far as I can see there are only three reasons why JLR would choose to stop Suffolk from making cars which they no longer produce but for which they still have the rights:

1. Lost sales: JLR think that people are buying SS100's instead of F Types - so if they stop SS100 production and they'll sell more F Types
2. Lost credibility: JLR think that people will look at SS100s and think that all Jaguars are like that - As if they really think SS100s have a lower build quality than JLR's output.
3. Lost opportunity: JLR see Suffolk making literally thousands of pounds profit each year and don't like it because they can't or won't do it themselves at that price point and instead want to sell SS100 recreations at £500k+ each

And of those 3, the first 2 are so ludicrously unlikely that the third reason is the one to my mind is the most likely. If they do, let's hope their financial modellers have done the projections for lost sales to SS100 enthusiasts because people dislike their treatment of Suffolk versus increased sales because those same SS100 enthusiasts, unable to buy their sub £200k (guess) SS100 from Suffolk will instead happily cough for a >£500k (guess) recreation from JLR.

Originally Posted by Perry_P_M3W

Many Ford Cobra replica companies pay a license to allow this to continue. Perhaps the business case wasn't viable for Suffolk to invest such a thing. Here's hoping they can regroup and find another niche to fill.


If it's as simple as this - ie that JLR wanted Suffolk to pay a licence fee that Suffolk couldn't afford, then to my mind it's a clear failure of negotiation. JLR can easily see how much profit Suffolk has been making from its operation, so if they wanted too large a slice of the pie then they must accept that the public perception of their action will be that it's motivated by sheer greed.
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Suffolk Cars - 18/09/20 07:05 AM

So where do you place the various 3 wheelers that are similar to the Morgan? It is true that they are not the same as the Morgan but certainly some have been inspired by the original Morgan 3 wheelers. I never understood why Pete Larson was talking to Morgan about a licence (so the story goes) when the Liberty Ace was not a replica and really the only thing in common is that they both had 3 wheels.

It is true that the Suffolk cars are replicas and are touted as such but they are not being passed of as originals. I immagine that it would be easy enough to engineer in some slight differences to be able to say it was "inspired by" instead of a replica of the Jaguar. Most, if not all, of their cars use more modern suspension and steering and all of them use many original Jaguar components; engines, gearboxes, diffs, etc. Probably where they run into difficulty is with a car like the C Type where they (according to the Suffolk Web site) actually copied the C Type bodywork.

It all makes my wonder where the Frontline MGs stand. Probably they are OK because they are rebuilding cars based on the original chassis and adding new components just as any workshop could do for private individuals. No doubt no one could complain if Suffolk re-built a crashed or poor condition original C Type.

The big question is at what point does an object become "inspired by" instead of a "copy of" or a "replica" of the original?
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 18/09/20 08:27 AM

One of the strange things about the whole sad story is that the Suffolk SS100 was 100% Jaguar in it's parts whereas the original SS100 was merely a Standard Car Company chassis ( and that wasn't even built by Standard ) a Standard Side valve engine modified to o.h.v. by Westlake and a pretty body placed on top, so for JLR to say you have to stop producing the car is a bit much as they didn't build it like that anyway.
I can't see Jaguar ever building a "continuation" SS100 as the difficulties with regulations would make it far too expensive. The last list price for a Suffolk SS100 ( in basic form ) was £92K or there abouts. Obviously just like Morgan, the extras added extra to that price. My aluminium "C" type was £145K which was still a bargin when you look at the cost of an original if you can find one for sale.
Life moves on, now I have to dream about that replica Ferrari 250 SWB !!!
Posted By: Perry_P_M3W

Re: Suffolk Cars - 18/09/20 09:48 AM

Jaguar's sales are actually up in most key markets. I highly doubt that 99.99999% of their customers are even remotely aware of what has unfortunately happened with Suffolk. I would love to go into detail on how such disagreements come between an OEM who truly owns the rights to a design and companies like this but would either bore the socks off most or more importantly share company info that I'm not allowed. And it goes both ways - we don't have all the facts.

As for sales, the SS was not what one would call a high volume seller so rest assured Jaguar were not losing sleep over lost sales.

Looked at from a Morgan perspective, BMW is also not remotely worried that Morgan are taking away sales with Morgan now using BMW engines in the two new models. Doesn't even hit their radar one bit. Perhaps I'm a bit more sensitive than most when it comes to comments being made towards manufactures due to knowing what truly goes on behind close doors. I'll leave it at that smile

I do feel massively sad for the workers and company as a whole but as Reg says, life moves one.
Posted By: SFO

Re: Suffolk Cars - 18/09/20 10:17 AM

There is much more to this JLR and Suffolk Cars issue. Everything here is pure conjecture. No one knows what actually happened.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 18/09/20 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by SFO
There is much more to this JLR and Suffolk Cars issue. Everything here is pure conjecture. No one knows what actually happened.


Nowt wrong with a bit of conjecture - after all, you are doing it with your statement that "there is much more to this" smile

Unless of course by 'No one knows what actually happened" you really mean "No one knows but me" smile

The idea that a company (or anyone) can do something which is bound to annoy some people, but then say "You mustn't speculate about this and we're not going to tell you why we've done it" and expect people to meekly accept it is more than somewhat optimistic, don't you feel?
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Suffolk Cars - 18/09/20 11:00 AM

Good old speculation.

Is it s smokescreen as the business and it allowed a story with the creditors which lets the losses being removed and a rebirth.
Are JLR going to introduce yet another limited edition OTT garage queen.
Are the people that built the car able to find some other decent work to make certain their excellent skills are not wasted.

Somewhere in all of those ?

Or is it just that they did not have critical mass of customers and enough budget to promote it leading to business closing. It's tough out there.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Suffolk Cars - 18/09/20 11:06 AM

There are a few specialists that re-engineer E Types as we know, I wonder if they are the next ones to line up in JLR's lawyers sights ?
Posted By: TBM

Re: Suffolk Cars - 18/09/20 11:18 AM

I still reckon debts of £850,000 may have had a major influence on the decision.
Posted By: mph

Re: Suffolk Cars - 18/09/20 10:46 PM

You're right, Suffolk were in serious financial trouble long before Covid or the Jaguar letter.

It appears the company is now back up and running under the same management but no longer has any debt. If true, that ties in with what the financial chap on Pistonheads speculated would happen (as quoted previously on this thread) .

Jaguars motivation is unclear, but looking enviously at Suffolks "profits" seems rather unlikely. Opinion in the Classic Jaguar world seems to be that JLR have zero chance of winning any court action against replica manufacturers. They've just lost the case against Ineos regarding the Defender and that's a car that was recently in production.

There's a lot regarding Suffolk business practices on other forums and much of it isn't complimentary. How much is true is another thing of course. They certainly turned out some cars with fake identities and I wouldn't want to be an owner of such a vehicle.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 18/09/20 10:57 PM

Well that certainly is illuminating particularly the last paragraph if it is proven and would explain why TATA wants to distance itself.

Things are seldom what they seem in the car business and this is a very convenient route for the Suffolk management if not a noble one.
Posted By: Perry_P_M3W

Re: Suffolk Cars - 18/09/20 11:41 PM

. If anyone on this thread thinks that JLR for one second thought for a millisecond that they were afraid of Suffolk sales are cutting into their sales are delusional. They sound less cars per year than you can count on both hands than JLR sell in a day.

Suffolk make great cars, for what they were in limited numbers for those that wasted a classic/modern Jag but I'm sorry for being so blunt, let's give this a rest. There wasn't a market for a such a car and sadly, the business case wasn't sound.

if this was BMW wanting to build a Golf and VW beat them in court as they were building a car that looked and gave the dynamics of a Golf, I can see see the arguments of some of the comments. Suffolk sold an inconsequential fronton of what JLR sell. It's crazy to think that for a nano-second that JLR were afraid of losing sales to Suffolk.


@ Admin, feel free to delete my account. .
Posted By: TBM

Re: Suffolk Cars - 19/09/20 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Well that certainly is illuminating particularly the last paragraph if it is proven and would explain why TATA wants to distance itself.

Things are seldom what they seem in the car business and this is a very convenient route for the Suffolk management if not a noble one.


Unrelated, but a University mate of mine was the 'godson' of the chair of Tata. Went over to visit in the late 80's and he took me up to the penthouse of Tata Tower in Calcutta. The views were amazing!
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 19/09/20 08:39 AM

I am aware of a hell of a lot more detail than has been expressed here but as I said before, there's no point, lets just move on and enjoy what may possibly be the last couple of weeks of driving freedom.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 19/09/20 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by TBM
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Well that certainly is illuminating particularly the last paragraph if it is proven and would explain why TATA wants to distance itself.

Things are seldom what they seem in the car business and this is a very convenient route for the Suffolk management if not a noble one.


Unrelated, but a University mate of mine was the 'godson' of the chair of Tata. Went over to visit in the late 80's and he took me up to the penthouse of Tata Tower in Calcutta. The views were amazing!

Good stuff quite an experience, I guess the air was a bit cleaner out there then, a good contact to keep.
I don't see you as an Evoque kind of man though more old style Defender..
Posted By: TBM

Re: Suffolk Cars - 19/09/20 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Good stuff, I guess the air was a bit cleaner out there then a good contact to keep, I don't see you as an Evoque kind of man though more old style Defender..


Too right - I've had a S3, a couple of S2A, a RR Vogue and a Jag X300 but the Ewok is just a bit too 'Beckham' for me smile

Wouldn't say no to an F Type though smile
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Suffolk Cars - 19/09/20 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Perry_P_M3W
. @ Admin, feel free to delete my account. .


Why? If you have broken the rules or gone "over the top" in any way I have not noticed it.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Suffolk Cars - 19/09/20 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by TBM
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Good stuff, I guess the air was a bit cleaner out there then a good contact to keep, I don't see you as an Evoque kind of man though more old style Defender..


Too right - I've had a S3, a couple of S2A, a RR Vogue and a Jag X300 but the Ewok is just a bit too 'Beckham' for me smile

Wouldn't say no to an F Type though smile

A mate of mine a local farmer has an older Epsom Green RR and it’s a beauty and comfortable to ride in they just exude style in the countryside.
I had to look up that Jaguar number, I’ll bet that was a nice car, to me they were the last of the stylish saloons.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Suffolk Cars - 19/09/20 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
I had to look up that Jaguar number, I’ll bet that was a nice car, to me they were the last of the stylish saloons.


It was - 4.0l Sovereign. Beautiful to drive and so comfortable. Once did an 800 miler in a day, and felt fine at the end of it. Also had a 'sport mode' o the autobox, which gave the boy racers in Essex a few surprises. Would return about 28mpg on a good run too.

One of the very few things I miss about my previous lifestyle smile

I could probably pick one fairly cheap these days, but it wouldn't fit on my drive smile
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/10/20 09:26 AM

Just reading about Eagle in Classic & Sports - wonder why they haven’t had a nasty lawyers letter?

[Linked Image]
Posted By: TBM

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/10/20 09:31 AM

I wonder if it is because they 're-engineer' existing Jaguars rather than make a 'kitcar' replica?
Posted By: Ian Wegg

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/10/20 09:49 AM

I think that's exactly it. Every Eagle is a Jaguar E-type restored. No different to a great number of vintage cars around.

With regards to Suffolk, I notice that the liquidator has confirmed there was a "threat" of legal action but no details as to the exact nature. The company owed nearly £800K to creditors, all of whom are listed in the winding-up order; I don't see any solicitors amongst them so I'm guessing no formal action had taken place. I'd guess that the company was already insolvent and any approach about intellectual property rights from JLR would have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

I like Suffolk Cars but I have to say I always wondered how they got away with it.
Posted By: mph

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/10/20 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Ian Wegg

I like Suffolk Cars but I have to say I always wondered how they got away with it.


By that do you mean got away with making replicas of an 80 year old Jaguar model ?

The replica business has been a thriving industry for decades and I'm not aware of many, if any, companies being stopped from making "copies" of long discontinued models. Indeed Lynx, who make a high quality replica have only recently brought the business back to the UK. Realm and several others are still advertising C Type replicas and there seems to be little change in the rest of the market.

There are several companies that build toolroom replicas of interesting cars including Bugatti, Bentley and of course Jaguar racing models. Links below.

The one car that does surprise me is the AC Cobra replica. AC were still making cars while the replica industry was churning out copies of their product. Allegedly more that 60,000 to date.


https://pursangargentina.com/

https://www.bobpetersenengineering.co.uk/speed-six

https://classic-jaguar-racing.co.uk/product/fia-dtype-copy-poa/
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/10/20 11:16 AM

Also ASM with the DBR replica

There is money to be made with continuation models now - Aston & Jag like these cash cows.

http://www.asmotorsport.co.uk/

Posted By: Ian Wegg

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/10/20 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by mph
The replica business has been a thriving industry for decades and I'm not aware of many, if any, companies being stopped from making "copies" of long discontinued models.

Ferrari has issued literally hundreds of lawsuits to protect their IP. I've nothing against replicas, "Total Headturners" is a stand I always visit at motoring events, but some of them are on shaky ground with regards to trade marks.

All of which is contrary to my original point that I'm not convinced Suffolk's demise is very much the result of a legal threat.

Posted By: sospan

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/10/20 02:44 PM

There are several companies selling kits of old jags. C-type and D-type. There are several ki car companies selling replicas. This link gives a good insight into many types, inc Chesil Porsche 356, Nostalgia Jag cars, a couple of Ferrari Dino kits based on MX5 etc.
http://www.kitcarlinks.com/
Caterham own the Lotus7 but Westfield make a “Seven inspired” car with Westfield livery. That seems to be the cop out.
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/10/20 02:54 PM

Sad about Suffolk

Loved looking at them at the Classic Car Show over the years and have quite a few photos of Reg’s (Lowbird) Suffolks

Beautiful cars

I must admit I’ve always thought it odd that they could use Jaguar badges to adorn their creations, I guess Suffolk relied on the fact that there was an original donor car of the same marque

What about Eagle? How do they continue to make their E types? Or are they just complete restorations?

Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/10/20 03:17 PM

Stewart, I must say I agree. It has been very sad to see the demise of Suffolk and even I can't get the full picture of what happened and I certainly don't intend to say anymore about it however, my latest SS100 is possibly the best of the 3 that I have had. I was lucky to have been involved with it's build from the chassis upwards and had many happy visits whilst it was being built. A bit like Morgan but even more detailed and personal. I have been to the old works a couple of times and, whilst things are on a quite small scale now, the new company and team are still able to provide support for all the cars out there.
The thing with the Jaguar badge was resolved some years ago when Jaguar contacted the company to tell them to stop using the Jaguar Lozenge shape in their publicity marerial, which they did,as this is used by Jaguar themselves but I'm not at all sure about the badge on the cars. Certainly my "C" type had the lozenge badge on the rear.
Posted By: sospan

Re: Suffolk Cars - 13/10/20 07:06 PM

I seem to remember the use of a badge was the crux of Ferrari’s legal take on replicas. Totalheadturners was, I think, one of the main targets.
Several times people have asked if my Morgan was a kit. My answers are sometimes wind-up “yes”.
Earlier this year in a carpark with aerotaff he started a wind-up of someone who was asking about the cars and we kept it going.
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Suffolk Cars - 14/10/20 09:46 AM

Especially when you get an "expert" who wants to tell you all about the 8 year wait for delivery and the wooden chassis, all good fun.
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