Talk Morgan

Very unhappy

Posted By: meabh

Very unhappy - 03/10/19 12:40 PM

Hello to all,
When I ordered my Plus Four I spent lots of time looking at reviews up to and including 2019 and always noted the co2 emissions as 164 only to find that it has jumped to 205 and the French are wanting 10,000 euros to register it. I would not have bought a new one if I had known. More fool me I guess.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 12:48 PM

Oh dear, has it been subjected to the new NEDC test regs ?

it's getting quite confusing with WLTP, NEDC, RDE, and the small manufacturer exemptions that MMC get
Posted By: Culminator

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 01:01 PM

If at the time of order, the spec was stated to be 164, then that is what you should expect to be delivered. Unless they have notified you that the spec is changing, you may find that you have grounds to reject the car as it is not the spec that you originally ordered.
Posted By: milligoon

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 01:02 PM

Any way to pay to get it individually tested to see the results, a lot of this figures get pulled out of thin air from vehicles the engines are used in else where weighing much more than a Morgan.
Posted By: 60Yards

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 01:05 PM

In the Netherlands it also increased significantly in price this year due to 'tuning back' NOX emissions, which leads to higher CO2 emission. (lower NOX leads to higher CO2, apparently)
Taxing is based on CO2 down here.
Posted By: xc68anc

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 01:10 PM

Hello meabh,

at first 10.000 EURs are a lot of money. In germany I must pay a lot of tax too, but only "peanuts". As I order my MOG I only think about the old german taxsytem. And I just double the tax of our daily POLO.

As I get the invoice: ups... Something wrong. Not wrong, a lot of CO2. (Also the "new" 205gr).

But there was a sentence from a wellknown Brit: (nearly in this sence) The joy keep on, when the money is forgotten.

And: do a lot of kilometres with the mog... So the tax per mile will went down. That was also an idea I give to friend.
He build up a "high performance" 2stroke engine for his VESPA GS4. About 2000EURs change the owner, but after it was fitted the fun was big. For a little bit more than 6.000KM. He was very unhappy when the engine stops its work.
But I told him: don't worry, only 33Cent/ Kilometre... It's a good price for the fun you've fot.

René
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 01:31 PM

Interestingly, looking at French motor sites, there are 2019 P4's for sale with differing co2 and band ratings.It does make you think that they just make this stuff up.
Posted By: howard

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by meabh
Hello to all,
When I ordered my Plus Four I spent lots of time looking at reviews up to and including 2019 and always noted the co2 emissions as 164 only to find that it has jumped to 205 and the French are wanting 10,000 euros to register it. I would not have bought a new one if I had known. More fool me I guess.


Can you not have it delivered to a dealer or a friend who will do 100 miles in it , keep it for a few months and officially "sell" it to you as second hand?
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 02:05 PM

It strange your dealer didnt told you it has been changed.
When i went to retromobile in february it was already changed.
The new wltp figures is 220 for a plus4.For exemple in Belgium my arp4
Should cost 5000 euros instead of 750 for the registration and the
Yearly tax 2500 iso 450.This is why a second hand car is
Most interesting than a new plus4.And the new plus 6
Is now very cheap compared to the plus4 with a wltp of 170.
Registration is 1250 and yearly tax 500.
Posted By: lowebird

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 02:48 PM

That sum of money is disgraceful for what is a modern engine. If you had gone out and bought a old Yank land yacht with a 7 ltr engine you probably wouldn't pay anything. Crummy politicians.
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 03:09 PM

Believe me Howard I have thought of all sorts of wheezes. I have two houses in England but I don't live in either of them so I can't even reimport it.
Posted By: Fox Terrier

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 04:21 PM

I would be very unhappy with that! Sometimes you need to just take it on the chin though so it doesn't spoil your enjoyment of the car. Try a bit of man maths - that can help rationalise it!
Posted By: andymot

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 04:23 PM

That's a lot of cash - is there anything that the supplying dealer can do regarding paperwork etc? At the end of the day its just a number on a piece of paper surely?
Posted By: atalante83

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 05:02 PM

The new plus six is less taxes.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 05:35 PM

I'm really sorry to read this Ian, we all shared your joyful journey to ownership and great service from BHM and to end up having to pay this extortionate amount truly removes the joy factor. I wish you lots of Luck with a workaround possibly involving one of your UK properties.
If you need another UK address I can provide you with a choice of two if that could help.
Posted By: pandy

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 06:01 PM

My sympathies.

When I ordered my 4/4 in 2010, the CO2 emissions were 139,6 g/cm. “Happy days” thought I - there is a break point in French company car tax at 140g/km. The car was delivered in April 2011, but since my order had been re-homologated to meet Euro 5, which came in on 1st Jan. Under Euro 5 the car was rated at 143g/km, which more than doubled my annual tax on it (about 800 extra per year times 5 years).

Of course, at the time I ordered it, Morgan wouldn’t have known what the new homologation results would be, nor the impact it would have on me. So I sucked it up and just enjoyed the car, as Rene recommends.

Dare I say, that the depressed exchange rate of the pound will have offset quite a lot of the 10k.

A bitter pill indeed,but we’re you to return the car to the uk, the loss you’d suffer on resale of such a recent car would be about the same, so I guess you’ll just have to
Pay the malus.
Posted By: Felix42

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 06:19 PM

Who pockets the €10,000 and what do they do with it? mad
Posted By: MDS61

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 06:35 PM

Hi,

I must admit 165 looks right to me over 200 does not?

If we base the Co" on a 2 litre petrol car i.e. the Ford Focus - the Co2 is 162......there is no way a +4 is over 200??

Ford Focus 2.0 Petrol MPG - Car Emissions
www.car-emissions.com/cars/index/ford focus 2.0...
CO2 (carbon dioxide), mileage, fuel economy and other emissions data for Ford Focus 2.0 Petrol cars. average fuel consumption is 45.9 MPG or 6.6 litres/100km and average CO2 output is 162.6 g/km based on 4419 models.

Regards Mark
Posted By: Jacques

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 08:58 PM

For now the situation of Co2 taxation is very confusing in our country.
Taxes are based on the NEDC homologation cycle, they will be based on the more favourable WLTP only in june 2020.
Beware, taxes will be higher at the begining of 2020 (01/01/2020) and the maximum who is now 10400 € will grow to 12500 € swear
Posted By: pandy

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by Felix42
Who pockets the €10,000 and what do they do with it? mad


The French government (of course).

Unlike in the UK, we’ve not had an annual road tax for some years now. The tax on vehicles with high emissions is all front loaded onto an emissions based tax on new vehicles at registration, and also on higher registration charges any time a more polluting vehicle is sold.
Posted By: Robbie

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 10:11 PM

VRT registration tax here in Ireland rated the Plus4 at 164 and charged some €18000 euro for the privilege of importing it so think yourself fortunate!!!!!
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Very unhappy - 03/10/19 10:12 PM

For the moment in Italy we pay annual tax based on power, not on the emmisions. I hope the Italian politicians don't get wind of this system.

As for new cars they have just introduces an "Ecotax based on CO2 emissions. This is paid only on the first matriculation.

Code
Emissioni di CO2 (ciclo NEDC) 	Ecotassa all'acquisto
161-175 g/km 	                         1.100 euro
176-200 g/km 	                         1.600 euro
201-250 g/km 	                         2.000 euro
oltre 250 g/km 	                         2.500 euro 


I have used the code tag to get the table to line up. smile
Posted By: Carrotious

Re: Very unhappy - 04/10/19 12:00 AM

I went through exactly the same thing a few weeks ago.
I posted a message about it too.
It doubled my import co2 tax into Switzerland.
Talked to the authorities about it who were sympathetic but were unable to do anything.
I had to just suck it up.
Posted By: Morgan110

Re: Very unhappy - 04/10/19 10:39 AM

Hi you are so lucky that the french have registered your car for 10000 euro my brand new car as well as others is sitting at the Morgan garage in the uk unable to get it registered.

All new plus 4 in the uk remain of the road because of co2 levels

Ian
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: Very unhappy - 04/10/19 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Morgan110
Hi you are so lucky that the french have registered your car for 10000 euro my brand new car as well as others is sitting at the Morgan garage in the uk unable to get it registered.

All new plus 4 in the uk remain of the road because of co2 levels

Ian


What's the latest news Ian?

Did you mention it also applies to Roadsters as well?
Posted By: Michael P

Re: Very unhappy - 04/10/19 12:14 PM

In my opinion, there is an error in the calculation (made by MMC):

The amount of CO2/100 km comes from the burned fuel per 100 km.

In the current specification a combined fuel consumption according to the NEDC of 7.1l/100km is given.

7.1 l petrol results in 169 g CO2.

Where should the "missing" amount of CO2 come from? From the driver? hide
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: Very unhappy - 04/10/19 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Michael P
In my opinion, there is an error in the calculation (made by MMC):

The amount of CO2/100 km comes from the burned fuel per 100 km.

In the current specification a combined fuel consumption according to the NEDC of 7.1l/100km is given.

7.1 l petrol results in 169 g CO2.

Where should the "missing" amount of CO2 come from? From the driver? hide


You’re spot on, it’s most odd

Do you think they can no longer use the combined figures?
Posted By: Michael P

Re: Very unhappy - 04/10/19 12:56 PM

The CO2-emissions according to NEDC are calculated on the basis of combined fuel consumption.

My Plus 4 (year of construction 2018) with the same engine (2.0l Ford GDI) has - accordning to the official documents - a combined fuel consumption according to NEDC of 7.1 l/100 km and combined CO2 emissions - also according to NEDC - of 164 grams (not exactly correct, but closer to 169 grams than 205 grams).
Posted By: Michael P

Re: Very unhappy - 04/10/19 01:10 PM

I think the explanation is this:

The NEDC was replaced by the test procedure according to WLTP (Worldwide harmonised Light-duty vehicles). This also applies to vehicles in category M (passenger cars).

The new test procedure has been in force since 1.9.2018.

I do not know how this will affect vehicles approved before this date.

A serious discussion with the dealer seems appropriate to me (delivered vehicle does not correspond to the data, which were basis for the order).
Posted By: pete757

Re: Very unhappy - 04/10/19 01:42 PM

Can someone clarify please...

Are all NEW Morgan Plus 4's not able to be now registered because of this CO2 emissions issue?

I know that is why they stopped the sales of the 4/4 in the UK.

Mmmm, if this is the case, I must ask if my flying colleagues can now take-off with one engine shut-down...
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 04/10/19 03:42 PM

Hows this: yesterday I telephoned the factory and explained that I could see the P4 registered as 164 in the Uk and 205 in France. I asked who was right and was told, with a laugh that they both were. Looking at new morgan adverts in France, I can see that some (and we are talking brand new P4's) are listed as 205 and some 164 and some 217. Go figure.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Very unhappy - 04/10/19 04:46 PM

Not very constructive comes to mind keeping it polite banghead
I hope you have more joy your side of the channel.
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: Very unhappy - 04/10/19 05:50 PM

Sounds like a bit of a complete mess
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Very unhappy - 04/10/19 05:55 PM

Perhaps the Italian factor taking hold hide
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Very unhappy - 04/10/19 06:50 PM

http://morgan-belgium.com/morgan-plus-p4/

This is on morgan belgium
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: Very unhappy - 04/10/19 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by thierry242


I found this link worked better...

http://morgan-belgium.com/morgan-plus-4/
Posted By: milligoon

Re: Very unhappy - 05/10/19 05:31 PM

Maybe worth asking what sized wheels and tyres those new figures are based on?
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Very unhappy - 14/10/19 07:43 AM

it is not yet official but the co2 of the plus 4 will be decreased to 180 .Info received yesterday at garage Albert during the presentation of the plus6.
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 14/10/19 11:15 AM

Well, I am dumbfounded by that Thierry. There are still sites in Belgium and France listing new P4's as 164 and 217 and 205.
Posted By: Robbie

Re: Very unhappy - 14/10/19 11:31 AM

In Ireland I registered my Plus 4 and the officials quoted 164 as the co2 and this is what is on the registration cert. Mind you they still extracted €18000.00 for the pleasure!!!!!!
Posted By: howard

Re: Very unhappy - 14/10/19 01:59 PM

I came across this on an EU site:

Before September 2017, all cars at dealerships had CO2 values based on the old NEDC test (the New European Driving Cycle).
During the period of transition from NEDC to WLTP that started in September 2017, cars approved before then will continue to have CO2 values as measured under the NEDC test only.
However, when a new car type is certified under WLTP after September 2017, its official vehicle documents (the Certificate of Conformity) will have CO2 emission values from both the new lab test as well as the old one.
From September 2018, all new cars must have WLTP-CO2 values


The new test is unrealistic - it requires high speed testing at speeds that are illegal in all my a few miles of autobahn.

My guess is that the OP has been caught up in the changeover process - the car hasnt changed and its real life emissions havent changed but the statutory measurements have changed. Meantime there are "new" cars in the distribution chain that were made before september 2008 which will have the old data or both data. I suppose it might depend on your defimnition of "new" - is that at first registration or when the car leaves final assembly.

Dont forget that VW had to stop sales at one point because of the logjam of testing required for the new system so where would a minow like Morgan fit in the queue?
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Very unhappy - 14/10/19 05:14 PM

That s new from yesterday,it is not official but in general when garage Albert say something it is true.
Posted By: BobtheTrain

Re: Very unhappy - 14/10/19 06:08 PM

£18000.00 !!!! How much for road tax, for heaven's sake?
Posted By: Robbie

Re: Very unhappy - 14/10/19 06:19 PM

Bob, the annual tax is €540 and that is a reduction from €720 which applied to my previous plus 4. A roadster 3.7 is €2250!!!! Hence I don’t have one!
Cheers!
Posted By: BobtheTrain

Re: Very unhappy - 14/10/19 06:21 PM

Gordon Bennett! We should count ourselves lucky over here, then.
Posted By: Robbie

Re: Very unhappy - 14/10/19 06:29 PM

The Gordon Bennett run is a good reason for visiting!!!
Posted By: BertR

Re: Very unhappy - 14/10/19 07:48 PM

whilst present at the launch of the plus six, I understood that in NL for every additional 10g/km of CO2 the tax goes up with euro 4000. In NL the Roadster is about the same price as the Plus six. The latter starts at euro 124000. It is an expensive hobby. It makes me appreciate Roadster in my garage more and more, I will pamper it.
Bert
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Very unhappy - 14/10/19 09:27 PM

It's all making me think that it will be a long time before I change cars!!!!!
Posted By: howard

Re: Very unhappy - 15/10/19 07:46 AM

Pure curiosity but what tax are Eire and Holland putting on pure EVs like Tesla?
Posted By: Robbie

Re: Very unhappy - 15/10/19 08:14 AM

Bug*er all - the tree huggers convinced the government that they were eco friendly so no VRT and about €100 annual tax!!!!

Of course no reference to the rare earth metals in the batteries or the hassle of recycling OR the source of the electricity(coal fired in the main) !!

Nuts.....nuts. Cadbury’s take them and cover them in chocolate.!
Posted By: BobtheTrain

Re: Very unhappy - 15/10/19 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Robbie
Bug*er all - the tree huggers convinced the government that they were eco friendly so no VRT and about €100 annual tax!!!!

Of course no reference to the rare earth metals in the batteries or the hassle of recycling OR the source of the electricity(coal fired in the main) !!

Nuts.....nuts. Cadbury’s take them and cover them in chocolate.!

What's got a hazelnut in every bite?






Squirrel sh*t.
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: Very unhappy - 15/10/19 12:54 PM

🤣🤣🤣🤣
HB
Posted By: pandy

Re: Very unhappy - 15/10/19 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by BobtheTrain
Originally Posted by Robbie
Bug*er all - the tree huggers convinced the government that they were eco friendly so no VRT and about €100 annual tax!!!!

Of course no reference to the rare earth metals in the batteries or the hassle of recycling OR the source of the electricity(coal fired in the main) !!

Nuts.....nuts. Cadbury’s take them and cover them in chocolate.!

What's got a hazelnut in every bite?






Squirrel sh*t.


Nobody can accuse you of being off-topic Bob. laugh
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Very unhappy - 15/10/19 01:54 PM

Haven't seen a Topic for years innocent
Posted By: BobtheTrain

Re: Very unhappy - 15/10/19 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by pandy
Originally Posted by BobtheTrain
Originally Posted by Robbie
Bug*er all - the tree huggers convinced the government that they were eco friendly so no VRT and about €100 annual tax!!!!

Of course no reference to the rare earth metals in the batteries or the hassle of recycling OR the source of the electricity(coal fired in the main) !!

Nuts.....nuts. Cadbury’s take them and cover them in chocolate.!

What's got a hazelnut in every bite?






Squirrel sh*t.


Nobody can accuse you of being off-topic Bob. laugh

My immediate reaction was - "Yay". Dunno why.
Posted By: howard

Re: Very unhappy - 15/10/19 03:54 PM

Got to say I quite fancy a Tesla. The interior looks quite classy for a yank car.
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Very unhappy - 15/10/19 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Robbie
Bug*er all - the tree huggers convinced the government that they were eco friendly so no VRT and about €100 annual tax!!!!

Of course no reference to the rare earth metals in the batteries or the hassle of recycling OR the source of the electricity(coal fired in the main) !!

Nuts.....nuts. Cadbury’s take them and cover them in chocolate.!

And we still don't know what to do with atomic waste, not to mention atomic accidents. I ask myself how many cancers have been caused by radioactive emissions and the earlier atmospheric atomic tests. Then there is the so-called spent uranium now used in amor piercing munitions. Well I suppose that is one way of getting rid of atomic power station waste, shoot it at people you don't like.
Posted By: BertR

Re: Very unhappy - 15/10/19 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by howard
Pure curiosity but what tax are Eire and Holland putting on pure EVs like Tesla?

Zero
Posted By: pandy

Re: Very unhappy - 15/10/19 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by howard
Got to say I quite fancy a Tesla. The interior looks quite classy for a yank car.


Not surprised Howard. As a sailor you are familiar with the concept of going with the tide rather than trying to batter your way into it.

I'm pretty sure now that a Tesla model 3 will be our next household car.
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 18/10/19 08:52 AM

Back on topic with a plot twist: I thought that I would phone the Paris importer, Beaumont Automobiles, because they have a new P4 with a co2 list of 164 and my Carte Grise application is held up because they claim 217. Any way, the chap I spoke with asked if I had the 110 model, which I do and then explained that the reason my tax was so high is because I had had the discount, i.e. the £8000 worth of freebies from Morgan. I think that I am losing my mind. If anyone cares to check their site, the P4 is the one with led headlights.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Very unhappy - 18/10/19 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by meabh
Back on topic with a plot twist: I thought that I would phone the Paris importer, Beaumont Automobiles, because they have a new P4 with a co2 list of 164 and my Carte Grise application is held up because they claim 217. Any way, the chap I spoke with asked if I had the 110 model, which I do and then explained that the reason my tax was so high is because I had had the discount, i.e. the £8000 worth of freebies from Morgan. I think that I am losing my mind. If anyone cares to check their site, the P4 is the one with led headlights.


The presence or absence of extras, other than sports exhaust and wheel/tyre size, has no impact on the CO2 level.
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 18/10/19 10:08 AM

Peter, I think this is a rabbit hole don't you ?
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Very unhappy - 18/10/19 09:32 PM

I would ask Morgan for a corrected CoC. There is clearly an error, probably some CoCs were inadvertently produced with the emmisions of the Roadster.

If it is not corrected I think you would have every right to return the car. The cost of having it returned to Morgan via the dealer may well finish up less than eventual taxes that you may have to pay. If you allow it to be registered with the currently stated emissions you may well be faced with future "carbon taxes" every year and it will undoubtedly effect the the resale value of the car. If they revise the system of the Crit'air system you may even have restrictions placed on your use of the car even though it is homologated Euro 6.

There are only two ways out of this nightmare for you; have Morgan issue the correct CoC for the car or have it returned to the supplier and demand either a refund or a replacement car to your specifications at the contracted price and with a declared CO2 of 164.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: Very unhappy - 18/10/19 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by meabh
Back on topic with a plot twist: I thought that I would phone the Paris importer, Beaumont Automobiles, because they have a new P4 with a co2 list of 164 and my Carte Grise application is held up because they claim 217. Any way, the chap I spoke with asked if I had the 110 model, which I do and then explained that the reason my tax was so high is because I had had the discount, i.e. the £8000 worth of freebies from Morgan. I think that I am losing my mind. If anyone cares to check their site, the P4 is the one with led headlights.


If I have understood everything right what you write... It sounds like a farce. A bureaucratic nightmare! What does your dealer's statement mean that you entered the high emissions because you saved money on the equipment? Is the dealer too stupid or too reluctant to help you? Why doesn't MMC obviously care how the customer copes with listless or incompetently thrown together COCs?

How is one supposed to explain oneself except that it is unmotivated arbitrariness that exactly the same car is offered with the dealer at clearly smaller emission values? I looked at his web page. Or there is some missing info which could explain everything and my rant is unfair.
If nobody wants to help you, get a lawyer. I'd be more than outraged if I were you. Especially if you take into account all the consequences Gambalunga has told.
Posted By: Carrotious

Re: Very unhappy - 19/10/19 05:09 AM

As I said I faced exactly the same issue and one of the consequences for me is a 50% premium on my yearly road tax.
I don't know if it has been pointed out but the mmc website specifies the p4 as having a Combined Co2 205g / km emissions.
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 19/10/19 07:20 AM

So who is right/ MMC or the importer and other French sites showing 164? I don't think the dealer that provided the car acted in anything but good faith and I would buy from them again and I know that they were shocked to hear how much the carte grize would cost. It is however a warning to anyone else who might contemplate exporting their new P4 to France.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Very unhappy - 19/10/19 08:10 AM

As i said before the new co2 was already know in
February when i visited the morgan stand at retromobile in Paris.
To compensate those 10000 euros they made a discount of +/- 10000 euros
In options on each new plus4.If you bought the car in uk
It was not possible for your dealer to know the tax regulation
Of your country.In Belgium the price is even not the same if
you live in wallonia or in the flamish region.
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Very unhappy - 20/10/19 03:14 PM

I still think that you need to get on to Morgan to clear this up. It is within their powers to issue a corrected CoC for the vehicle. The dealer may have acted in good faith but you contracted to buy a car that was not going to be subject to such a high tax. If the emissions are really at that high level you will either have to pay the extra tax, return the car, or otherwise dispose of it, but if you can get a CoC that states 164 for CO2 emissions you will be OK.
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 28/10/19 04:38 PM

Hello all,
I don/t want to flog this, but you'll be amused that I have just seen a French site advertising a 2016 ARP4 and stating the cv as 8 and co2 as 164. Anyway I decided to pay up.
Posted By: pandy

Re: Very unhappy - 28/10/19 05:26 PM

Very annoying for you, but I think that was probably the best way forward.

Try and put it behind you, and just enjoy the car.... woohoo drive
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Very unhappy - 28/10/19 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by meabh
Hello all,
I don/t want to flog this, but you'll be amused that I have just seen a French site advertising a 2016 ARP4 and stating the cv as 8 and co2 as 164. Anyway I decided to pay up.

Well done Ian, you walk away with your head held high to enjoy your new car clap
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Very unhappy - 28/10/19 06:48 PM

On the Coc of the arp4 it is 164 becauseit is the old figure of the plus 4 .This is one of the reasons to buy a 2 nd hand plus4.
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 29/10/19 09:49 AM

Thanks everyone- Meabh out.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Very unhappy - 29/10/19 09:51 AM

I am at garage Albert now.They are waiting for an new CoC
For the plus 4 with a co of 180.
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 29/10/19 11:13 AM

Thierry ,
and I thought that I was done: so what does this mean for my July 2019 coc ? Is it possible that you could ask for me?
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Very unhappy - 29/10/19 11:34 AM

As far as I can see manufacturers have the ability to issue new (revised) CoCs in the case of an applicable variation, far example additional tyre or wheel sizes. I don't see why it couldn't apply to correcting an incorrect CO2 figure.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Very unhappy - 29/10/19 12:11 PM

I am back home but i will ask them.Now the plus 4
Canot be registered untill the new CoC is published.
New customers are waiting for their cars
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 29/10/19 12:32 PM

Thierry and Peter,
How is it possible that the co2 can be altered like this ? And an alteration to the co2 emissions makes a difference of 3000 euros on the carte grise. I have phoned the factory but have been passed from one person to another and have to call back tomorrow.
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Very unhappy - 29/10/19 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by meabh
Thierry and Peter,
How is it possible that the co2 can be altered like this ? And an alteration to the co2 emissions makes a difference of 3000 euros on the carte grise. I have phoned the factory but have been passed from one person to another and have to call back tomorrow.

There is only two possible explantions. One is that an error was made in the new system of measuring emmisions which has now been corrected, or alternatively there was a simple error in transcribing the measurements.

I suppose there is a third possibility and that is that the re-map that has been done for cars fitted with the GDI engine has lowered the output of CO2 significantly, Other than a claimed increase in power there is also a claimed increase in fuel economy, lowered fuel use equates directly to reduced CO2. Certainly the reported black coating in the inside of the exhaust pipe that people say has been improved following the re-map points to an overly rich mixture.
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Very unhappy - 29/10/19 04:01 PM

Some of the early Roadsters had the Plus 4 data on the CoC………..

The thing about the sooty black GDI exhaust though....which mine had until the flash......was that the sensor ahead of the cat was smooth medium grey, the sensor after the cat was sooty black - and this makes no sense to me at all.
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Very unhappy - 29/10/19 04:19 PM

The sensor before the cat would be much hotter as it is in the direct exhaust flow from the engine. Perhaps by the time the exhaust gas paases through the cat it has cooled sufficiently that the excess carbon is not vapourised or otherwise burned and can be deposited. A consistently rich mixture will also damage the cat and shorten its effective life.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: Very unhappy - 29/10/19 05:11 PM

I have made the experience with my 4/4 that the exhaust pipe is very sooty due to the warm-up phase. This soot remains. If I clean the tailpipe of the very warm engine, it doesn't turn black again or only very little when going on further driving the hot engine. Maybe this is worth a try. Then you can see if the engine runs permanently too rich or only in the warm-up phase.
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 30/10/19 11:33 AM

and soooooo.......

I've been phoning around this morning because Carte Grise.com are being a pita. I spoke to Richard Thornes who said they had had no trouble registering new P4's, then Allon Whites who said that the co2 was 215, then the factory who couldn't find anyone to answer me, then Berrybrook who said ahhh, there is a problem and the co2 emissions are to be revised downward but Morgan don't have the info which is why they quote 205 and the 110 P4 has a different, 21/5 litre engine !!!!!! and am waiting for a call from uncle Melvyn to see what he says. I did telephone Perranwell too but they don't sell new cars anymore and London morgan who quoted 164 .So I still don't know if my new P4 will have to have a new coc or even if that happens, whether the french will just ignore it as they are claiming 215 and a puissance fiscale of 10 - I have no idea where they got that from.
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 30/10/19 12:25 PM

Update: It looks like whatever the new co2 figure becomes ,it will not apply to cars completed so far this year. Go figure.
Posted By: pete757

Re: Very unhappy - 30/10/19 12:56 PM

What a horrendous situation to be caught up in.

I would have though, that if MMC provided the info about the car you were buying, then they have a contractual liability to deliver that car, with those figures. It's not up to you to make good the difference, no matter how this may have arisen.

At the end of the day, it's just utter bollox! Your car will make NO difference to global warming.

It's time we all got serious about addressing the root cause of all this tax raising BS... don't get me ranting! I will stop now!
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Very unhappy - 30/10/19 03:11 PM

I think it is time to write a very unhappy letter, sent by registered mail with a certificate of delivery, or by courier, to Steve Morris. It is absolute nonsense to say that they can not issue a new CoC. If an error was made, for whatever reason, it is up to them to correct it and, if necessary, advise the authorities that an error was made. This may cost you quite dearly in the future if the French Government decide to place an annual carbon tax on cars.

My feeling is that given the circumstances you would have every right to return the car if they do not issue a CoC with the correct CO2.

They have a legal responsibility to issue a CoC with the correct data. Just imagine the consequences if they issued a CoC for a Roadster but inadvertently put all the data, engine size, wheel sizes, emissions, etc for a Plus 4. This is no different. The data is either correct or it is not, there is no such thing as mostly correct or correct in March but not in May for the same thing.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Very unhappy - 30/10/19 03:51 PM

For a company producing cars at £90k a pop this fiasco is making them look very Mickey Mouse I'm ashamed to say and I believe you have the TM massif very much in your camp Ian, good luck.
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 30/10/19 06:09 PM

You have all been very supportive and I do thank you. This once in a lifetime order has become something that I dearly wish had never happened. I do bear responsibility, I should have done more research, I should have have been more cautious. However, I did not and find myself in this peculiar situation. I hope that others reading this saga will benefit. I have decided to sell the car.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Very unhappy - 30/10/19 06:12 PM

I am so sorry to read this Ian but totally understand your heartache and reasoning - it's just not worth the aggro.
Posted By: paulmog

Re: Very unhappy - 30/10/19 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Gambalunga
I think it is time to write a very unhappy letter, sent by registered mail with a certificate of delivery, or by courier, to Steve Morris.



I wonder if you'll get a reply!
Posted By: Heinz

Re: Very unhappy - 30/10/19 06:33 PM

meabh before you throw the towel why not complain and undo the deal? Ok it is unpleasant and maybe an annoying argument. but the sale could bring a financial disadvantage?
Posted By: meabh

Re: Very unhappy - 30/10/19 07:39 PM

Thanks all of you but this time it is definitely Meabh out.
© 2020 Talk Morgan - Morgan Sports Car Discussion Forum, Community and News