Talk Morgan

The end of the last real sportscar

Posted By: tommog

The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 08:24 AM

Autocar seems to know what´s going on. Maybe it is necessary, but I really don´t like it! scared

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/...93PKQyLOruum-7xMbrzEB7xU-UhVsxP1vEzaVRts
Posted By: John V6

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 08:37 AM

Just as Dan at Krazy Horse told me.
A CX chassis with smaller Mustang turbo straight 4 & manual box would be interesting.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 09:27 AM

I want to an exhibition at the V&A at the weekend about cars & someone had spent many hours producing a large timeline / flowchart with all the manufacturers tracked through the years of car evolution, mergers, buyouts. BUT very sadly Morgan were completely missed off
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by John V6
Just as Dan at Krazy Horse told me.
A CX chassis with smaller Mustang turbo straight 4 & manual box would be interesting.


Agreed, I note that Ford's latest Mustang brochure tones down the 2.3 Ecoboost output to 285 bhp (I had seen 310!), only a tad more than Roadsters 3.7 V6 at 280 bhp.
Posted By: Quicksilver

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 10:23 AM

”The performance and all-round capability of the Plus Six has proved so good that Morgan bosses regard it as a spiritual successor for the potent Plus 8 of former times, rather than the V6 Roadster.”

Sorry, but I don’t think it will have one tenth of the charisma or character of a traditional Plus 8.
Posted By: Jens

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 10:45 AM

Morgan, as I love it, is dead. Very sad.
Posted By: Roady

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 11:06 AM

"Morgan has not confirmed an official end date for production of the traditional steel chassis models but recognises a period where it will be produced alongside CXGeneration models before its discontinuation in 2020."

MMC press release https://www.morgan-motor.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Morgan-models-2020-announcement.pdf
Posted By: nick w

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 11:43 AM

I'm just really glad I am the age I am, which means I have been able to drive a "trad" for many years, renewing every seven to nine years.

It's no criticism of the new chassis, and I wish them nothing but good fortune, but I have no interest in an aluminium chassis car. I loved the driving of a 1930s engineered car, I love all the features which are now classed as problems. I enjoyed coaxing the car round corners, learning to get the best from it, manual gearbox (I know the new autos are faster changing but there's no skill involved, no satisfaction for me - it's a case of input) that feeling that your driving skill was increasing as you got to know the car (it may be an illusion but a great one). I liked old fashioned design of the engineering.....for me the new aluminium chassis cars are a pastiche of the old ones (albeit very lovely pastiches) ......I never really liked the superform wings as much as the old handformed ones, that's how sad I am..........if I want modern performance characteristics I'll choose a modern car.

Luckily for the factory, at my age, I'm a dying out species and so not their future target buyer.

I'm sure they are making the right decision, but they are no longer for me. The end of a long love affair.
Nick
Posted By: Heinz

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 01:07 PM

Nick, even though it saddens me that you have to choose past tense. In my eyes with your post you have written one of the most beautiful summaries and homage to the traditional Morgan.
My statement has nothing to do with the desirable success or the necessity of the successor. This post belongs to the traditional Morgan all alone.
Posted By: howard

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Quicksilver


Sorry, but I don’t think it will have one tenth of the charisma or character of a traditional Plus 8.


I have always thought that "character" in a car = faults. Thats why Porsche's are characterless.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Quicksilver
”The performance and all-round capability of the Plus Six has proved so good that Morgan bosses regard it as a spiritual successor for the potent Plus 8 of former times, rather than the V6 Roadster.”

Sorry, but I don’t think it will have one tenth of the charisma or character of a traditional Plus 8.

I agree it is going to take a lot for me to go the Plus Six route the autobox and gutless exhaust uppermost, it's the total rawness of the Plus 8 Trad that beats all others for me and of course the sound track. 0-60 in 6 Secs and 125mph is all I can use anything more is purely academic.
Posted By: PHZI

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 02:36 PM

Inevitable. The cars will look the same on the outside. The appearance of the 4/4 for example, evolved from the first incarnation till now; subtle, but noticeable changes. I think the new platform cars will simply carry on this appearance evolution. I for one do not crawl under the car every day to stare at the chassis.
Posted By: St Eve

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 03:33 PM

Quote
I for one do not crawl under the car every day to stare at the chassis.
+1
Posted By: Craig Jezz

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by St Eve
Quote
I for one do not crawl under the car every day to stare at the chassis.
+1



I do
laugh2
Posted By: RobCol

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Craig Jezz
Originally Posted by St Eve
Quote
I for one do not crawl under the car every day to stare at the chassis.
+1



I do
laugh2


Actually true. Craig is one of the few Morgan owners who's worn out the carpet tiles under his car somestick
Posted By: SFG

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by RobCol
Originally Posted by Craig Jezz
Originally Posted by St Eve
Quote
I for one do not crawl under the car every day to stare at the chassis.
+1



I do
laugh2


Actually true. Craig is one of the few Morgan owners who's worn out the carpet tiles under his car somestick


That’s because herself makes him sleep out there
Posted By: madmax

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 05:28 PM

Very glad MMC have moved on with the new chassis , lets face it better handling easier steering , better suspension than the trad , ok purists will mutter but thats what purists do , look at the muttering when porsche ended tthe aircooled 911 .....they had to due to emissions and MMC have to for regs and getting the cars into new markets etc etc .....
Posted By: Stringers Best Mate

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by madmax
Very glad MMC have moved on with the new chassis , lets face it better handling easier steering , better suspension than the trad , ok purists will mutter but thats what purists do , look at the muttering when porsche ended tthe aircooled 911 .....they had to due to emissions and MMC have to for regs and getting the cars into new markets etc etc .....


+1

With it comes a younger thinking & fresher outlook with owners, hopefully.
Posted By: PhilRoyle

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 06:01 PM

I think the chassis is immaterial - if it works better then fine - I hope there is still a bit of ash around to creak and that they still produce a manual gearbox. I`m sticking with my 4/4 sport now until too decrepit to drive it - and then apparently steel chassis cars will become very desirable (and sell for a good price).
MMC have to look to the future or go under and it is the iconic Morgan shape that many of us love and that, hopefully, will be retained.
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 06:06 PM

Plenty of wood in the PlusSix Phil... smile
Posted By: RobCol

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Stringers Best Mate
Originally Posted by madmax
Very glad MMC have moved on with the new chassis , lets face it better handling easier steering , better suspension than the trad , ok purists will mutter but thats what purists do , look at the muttering when porsche ended the aircooled 911 .....they had to due to emissions and MMC have to for regs and getting the cars into new markets etc etc .....


+1

With it comes a younger thinking & fresher outlook with owners, hopefully.


I'm sure Morgan had no option but to introduce the CX chassis to conform with safety standards etc. The water cooled 996 version of the 911 actually saved Porsche in the late 80's but Porsche actually made the 996 cheaper to produce.

Conversely some Morgan dealers are predicting a 50% increase in price of CX chassis Morgans over corresponding traditional models . This I would imagine will be the biggest change as far as purists and existing Morgan buyers are concerned.
Posted By: Button

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 06:21 PM

As one of the oldest Morgan Owner/Driver in the World, I too am looking forward to the new CX Morgan. However; I would like them to use more modern materials such as Kevlar, Carbon Fiber, Plastics etc. If only battery tech would improve the range I would also add electric or hydrogen.
Posted By: MDS61

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 06:26 PM

Let's face it...the CX chassis - or new Morgan's are going to be much better than the Trad's - end of?

I bet if you switched the (black and white) dateless number plate I have ie. "44 UUX" onto a new Morgan and parked it at a classic car show...99% of the public would believe it was a old Morgan?

This is what MMC are now setting out to achieve, a Traditional Morgan without all the faffing..... cheers
Posted By: Craig Jezz

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by MDS61
Let's face it...the CX chassis - or new Morgan's are going to be much better than the Trad's - end of?

I bet if you switched the (black and white) dateless number plate I have ie. "44 UUX" onto a new Morgan and parked it at a classic car show...99% of the public would believe it was a old Morgan?

This is what MMC are now setting out to achieve, a Traditional Morgan without all the faffing..... cheers


But some of us like the faffing!!
doh
Posted By: RobCol

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by MDS61
Let's face it...the CX chassis - or new Morgan's are going to be much better than the Trad's - end of?

I bet if you switched the (black and white) dateless number plate I have ie. "44 UUX" onto a new Morgan and parked it at a classic car show...99% of the public would believe it was a old Morgan?

This is what MMC are now setting out to achieve, a Traditional Morgan without all the faffing..... cheers



I think i'd have to drive a CX chassis car as not all who have driven one seem to prefer it to their trads. Also given a dateless plate on a Plus 6 I think the wheels, interior and dash would give it away as a new car to most.

The faffing is accepted (even liked) by current trad owners, however the intended target market probably don't want to faff!
Posted By: madmax

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 07:09 PM

Faffing = spending time in ineffectual activity ! somestick
Posted By: RobCol

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by madmax
Faffing = spending time in ineffectual activity ! somestick



Depends of who's dictionary. I've read the same definition for faffing as relaxing, retired or fishing to name just three!
somestick
Posted By: IvorMog

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 07:32 PM

Is something that makes one happy ineffectual?
Try telling that to a keen gardener. (or guitar player for that matter hide)
Posted By: Player99

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 11/12/19 11:30 PM

Now the company has decided. we will not be able to change anything. Personally, I regret the decision for the same reasons as many of you. We will see what the future holds. Either it was the right decision and the Morgan company has many good years ahead or it was a wrong decision and the Morgan company will get into trouble.

____________________________________________
Player
Posted By: atalante83

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 12/12/19 05:48 AM

Bad but A necesity for homologation rules
I d like to try as soon as possible the new platform
Posted By: howard

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 12/12/19 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Player99
Now the company has decided. we will not be able to change anything. Personally, I regret the decision for the same reasons as many of you. We will see what the future holds. Either it was the right decision and the Morgan company has many good years ahead or it was a wrong decision and the Morgan company will get into trouble.

____________________________________________
Player


It is already in trouble being owned by a financial company for short term gain. Just look at Aston Martin which is expected to go bust yet again - owned by venture capital who loaded it up with more debt than it ever could carry, flogged off to the stock market at a high share price which as now collapsed..I said on here it wouldnt end well and I take no joy in being right ( for once! oldgit)

On a different subject, do posters really see the Trad as "the last real sports car"? As a young petrolhead back in the 60s, I saw it ven then as an anachronism along with the likes of the TF.
Posted By: Rovert

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 12/12/19 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by MDS61
Let's face it...the CX chassis - or new Morgan's are going to be much better than the Trad's - end of?



Depend on how you define "better".

Better dynamically, undoubtedly. Better from a classic enthusiasts ownership experience, not so sure.
Posted By: Jens

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 11:48 AM

The last twenty trads:

https://www.morgan-motor.com/plus-4-70th-anniversary-edition/?lang=it

The badge and the platinum idea is boring. They really can't think of anything better?

[Linked Image]
Posted By: flyfisher

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 12:33 PM

Yep a wasted opportunity, I would of gone more retro with something more special in spec. But only 20 and sold so just did what they needed to..
Posted By: Fat Wolfie

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 12:46 PM

Although I’m not in the market for one of the “special” run out models, I too was completely underwhelmed by the spec on these 20 cars.

A gold coloured chassis - What’s that all about?

The I understand deposits have been taken on all 20, but at least one of these is available at a dealer (Oakmere) so maybe all/ most of the 20 have had a dealer reservation/deposit As opposed to a true customer deposit.

Sorry Morgan but I think you could have/should have done better.
Posted By: xc68anc

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 01:59 PM

As I heard about the special last edition I must think about the special modells "100years Harley-Davidson".

Most of bikes where silver an black with a "perlmut" coulerd stripe which golden letters on. At the top all these "WONDERful" colourchemed bike the (poor) bikes get gold coloured alloys.

And also a special designed chrom badge 100years Harley-Davidson...

I think the facory has seen such a (in this days rare) bike and like the idea of such a great and dramatic design.

Happy about to own a Harley "99years edition" and a +4 "109years edition".

René
Posted By: Luddite

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 02:39 PM

Last real sports car....!!!! I suspect I have covered my thinking at length...(-: Baby Boomers were the Market for Trads were they not..? I suspect the same is the case for Morgans in general and I guess we can predict with some confidence the future for baby boomers, of which I am one...? That being the case it seems that with the passage of time there will be a plethora of Morgans available in the marketplace for those following on behind and in search of an essentially vintage motoring experience, without the cost or much of the fuss and drawbacks around running a truly vintage machine with reasonable performance,,? , For the few old and young left and desirous of a more comfortable ride surrounded by a bit more blin..err...style, I suspect the CX may well be a worthy successor..?
Posted By: Heinz

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 03:16 PM

The last 20 Plus 4 somehow make a sad impression. They also make a sad impression because they are the last 20 plus 4.
Specs and colour makes her look more like a Requiem model than an anniversary model.
Posted By: paulmog

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Fat Wolfie


A gold coloured chassis - What’s that all about?




Never mind about a gold coloured chassis MMC just make sure the PCB doesn't fail FOUR times in under three years!
Posted By: DaveW

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 05:03 PM

The spec is unadventurous, and has nothing I would aspire to. I would imagine that some of these will be dealer cars, but once again we see no bespoke options.

Twenty might cover the last of the GDI engines.
Posted By: xc68anc

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 05:06 PM

Now, thinking about the colour of these poor 20 +4, I think there ist nearly one thing where gold is good idea:

https://www.heart.co.uk/showbiz/mos...noughties/kylie-minogue-spinning-around/

In all other ways may be some Brits can help:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O4irXQhgMqg

René
Posted By: Image

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 05:32 PM

Sounds fine to me

[Linked Image]

Surely someone will order one in grey!!

:-)

K
Posted By: Jays ex Nero

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 06:06 PM

Oh dear how sad. The Plus 4 deserves better than a tarts makeover for its final run. It pains me to say it as I’ve been a great supporter of MMC over the years but Jon Wells and his “design team” should be ashamed of themselves.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 06:07 PM

This run out Traditional is the most uninspiring Morgan I've seen in a long while.. and £60k at that..
Posted By: Jens

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 06:20 PM

They should have done a +4 with the small (4/4) body, classic studded hood in black mohair, silver painted wire wheels, the old chrome bumpers with horns, the old badges with the classic Morgan wings and a Bluemels steering wheel, wooden dash .
Two sheepskin flying jackets for every car with the old Morganwings, "70" and "+4" stitched on the back. That would have been a worthy farewell.
Posted By: waikiore

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 06:47 PM

A sad end to a long and proud history, and going out with a whimper - instead of a really classic looking narrow body trad specked well we have these twenty sold to the dealers, I doubt that it will be hard to purchase one at that spec and price.
Posted By: deano

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
This run out Traditional is the most uninspiring Morgan I've seen in a long while.. and £60k at that..



I agree Richard and at £61k well overpriced in my opinion.
Posted By: andymot

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 07:21 PM

I'm with Jens on this. The run out " special" isn't that special at all - I suspect the effort and focus is very much looking forward to the new CX cars - shame really as they have missed a trick with this one. I was expecting something really desirable for the run out. Maybe it'll look great in the flesh - but its lacking a wow factor to me. Just 20 cars too - they aren't very confident in it either are they?
Posted By: Viper

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 08:07 PM

How much time and effort would you expect them to make.

I guess colour combos are no cost but special parts etc cost in development and production and there are only 20 units.

Not worth messing around with
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by deano
Originally Posted by +8Rich
This run out Traditional is the most uninspiring Morgan I've seen in a long while.. and £60k at that..



I agree Richard and at £61k well overpriced in my opinion.

Yes Martin that is a crazy price and I think if anyone is fresh into Morgan's they'll wait and save a bit more or lease a CX platform car, I suspect some of these 20 will find their way into speculators hands and never get driven until they sell them on at some stage for profit.
Posted By: MDS61

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 08:31 PM

At £61k - makes the PlusSix look cheap...now that is clever!!!

slap
Posted By: Moggo

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 08:34 PM

I have a small pension pot, an Isa, a small nest egg in the bank and a 4/4 in the garage, - what could possibly go wrong? MMC abandon their core classic 4/4 and +4.
Its a great pity; all I can afford now is from the plethora of Morgan branded trinkets at the check out. "Sorry Sir - "We have no car for sale under £60,000".
As far as I am concerned the firm is history and the brand is dead. tumbleweed
Posted By: Heinz

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 15/01/20 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Jens
They should have done a +4 with the small (4/4) body, classic studded hood in black mohair, silver painted wire wheels, the old chrome bumpers with horns, the old badges with the classic Morgan wings and a Bluemels steering wheel, wooden dash .
Two sheepskin flying jackets for every car with the old Morganwings, "70" and "+4" stitched on the back. That would have been a worthy farewell.


I quite agree with you about this one. Of course I can understand that no special things are made for only 20 cars. But for example the leather jackets would have been a nice emotional sign. And also nicer colours.
BTW the 61K GBP are perhaps a foretaste of what a CX Plus4 might cost.


Posted By: Jens

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 09:35 AM

Most of this parts they could get from Uncle Melvyn. And why not make some special parts for twenty high expensive cars? Hot-rod builders or custom bike builders do that for one vehicle.

Originally Posted by Heinz
BTW the 61K GBP are perhaps a foretaste of what a CX Plus4 might cost.


Have thought the same...
Posted By: TBM

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 09:36 AM

I quite like the understated nature, and also the 20% increase in power. However, as stated, these will probably go into 'collections' and get wheeled out for the odd show or two, so most of the issues are moot.

Not sure I agree with the harbingers of doom about the marque. If you want a trad/classic there are hundreds out there on the second hand market (many with very low mileages). Love my old classic, especially due to the family connection but if I had sufficient funds (unlikely but I play the lottery) I'd have no issues with purchasing a CX platform vehicle.
Posted By: Viper

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 09:54 AM

I am of the opinion that there are some proper grumpy, miserable old toads on here.

So hard to please everyone but whatever Morgan do lately seems to displease most here.

I think the car is what it should be, given it a modern twist, maybe that’s the problem, most owners are too old to get it

And the price??? Well, again, what else is out there comparable?

If I hadn’t just bought my Plus 8 I’d be in there
Posted By: ChrisConvertible

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 10:00 AM

I was down in Melbourne so dropped into the dealer just to see if they had any cars or news about what they are doing. What I was told was this nice green car is the last car left and once that is gone we are closing the business, the new CX car will be just too expensive to be able to sell.

The specs on the car is a 1.6 4/4 in Jaguar Metallic Green, Green Mohair top, Walnut dash, Over riders, Stainless Steel wheels, Map pockets, Foot-well lights, Visors, Heated Seats, mesh Grille, Clock, Door stays and Trinket Tray for $124,309AUD. A very nice colour and good spec but I think a +4 110 model was about the same from what I could tell looking at the price list at the start of last year and you got more for your money.

[Linked Image]

I did ask about the limited edition +4 and he said he isn't going to get any, this is the last one. I was leaving wondering if he was being truthful or not about not getting any of the 70 anniversary +4's but now I have seen it I expect he was not lying as it would not be easy to sell, I expect the price would be very high in AUD and I am certainly not a fan of the colour.

When I first read about a limited edition +4 to end the Trads I was expecting 70 cars and hoping for Brooklands green to match TOK as an option. Not that am in position to buy anyway.
Posted By: DaveW

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 11:23 AM

Morgan are edging away from bespoke, and edging upwards on cost.

I would imagine most buyers are old codgers, and at £61k, I for one want bespoke.

If these cars had been, say 2.5 Duratec, narrow bodied bespoke.......I would have found that package hard to resist.
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by DaveW
Morgan are edging away from bespoke, and edging upwards on cost.

I would imagine most buyers are old codgers, and at £61k, I for one want bespoke.

If these cars had been, say 2.5 Duratec, narrow bodied bespoke.......I would have found that package hard to resist.


Dave, I suspect it would cost you less than swapping cars to take your existing Plus 4 to someone like Williams and have the Omex 2.5 Duratec fitted. The existing engine is not worth a lot second hand and if you were keen to keep the possibility of returning to original you could mothball the engine. The reason I suggest Williams is that I know they have done this at least a couple of times before for customers. I believe one such new car went to a customer in New Zealand.

Someone I spoke to who had this engine fitted told me that it makes the car a fabulous sports tourer with good power and torque but without the weight of the V6.
Posted By: TBM

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 01:38 PM

To be honest, I may have been guilty of casting some shade on the company when they first introduced the Aero - in my opinion it had fallen out the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. Nothing like a 'proper' Morgan. However, they sold well, in time they fixed the fugly front end, and then temporarily sorted the fugly rear when they created a work of absolute beauty that is the Aeromax.

As I said above, looking forward to the next 110 years and seeing what they produce smile
Posted By: SFG

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 02:35 PM

Are there any Plus 6 owners out there to throw a little sunlight onto all this gloom? I suppose they are probably not the type to spend all day in a chat room. Wish I wasn’t.
Posted By: Dean-Royal

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Viper
I am of the opinion that there are some proper grumpy, miserable old toads on here.

So hard to please everyone but whatever Morgan do lately seems to displease most here.

I think the car is what it should be, given it a modern twist, maybe that’s the problem, most owners are too old to get it




watch out Lee, they will start kicking your shins
Posted By: Viper

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dean-Royal
Originally Posted by Viper
I am of the opinion that there are some proper grumpy, miserable old toads on here.

So hard to please everyone but whatever Morgan do lately seems to displease most here.

I think the car is what it should be, given it a modern twist, maybe that’s the problem, most owners are too old to get it




watch out Lee, they will start kicking your shins


Hahaha. That’s what I fear most.

I might just post in the Aero section like the good ole days, it’s a bit more cheerful and upbeat
Posted By: Peter J

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 05:57 PM

I like the Plus Six, if I had a Roadster and not an Aero Chassis Plus 8 I'd have put my name down.
But for the Aero Plus 8 owners, the Plus Six offers little real benefit.
So I'm keeping mine.
There is nothing quite like the noise of a gently abused naturally aspirated V8.
Posted By: MDS61

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Peter J


But for the Aero Plus 8 owners, the Plus Six offers little real benefit.


javascript:quickReply(612746,1,0)


Hi Peter,

Not being brutal but honest here (same applies to my Roadster - which is a further step behind your Aero Plus 8) BUT driven in anger on a challenging road you would not see which way the PlusSix went!

The handling and ride and far more compliant and it will of course be better on fuel and the PlusSix has more room and will therefore be less tiring to drive over distances.

As I say - this is progress (and yes I must agree with you...the V8 rumble will NEVER be beaten) but on every other front the PlusSix is much superior...

Of course this is only my opinion rtm
Posted By: DaveW

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 06:35 PM

I think that the Plus 6 has capabilities way beyond most drivers' abilities...……….

The four cylinder equivalent may be a better option for staying out of the undergrowth.

And although I love a V8 rumble as much as anyone, after 22 years behind one, it isn't the be all and end all for me.
Posted By: andymot

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 06:38 PM

According to the "car dealer" magazine I have been reading - they drove a plus6 recently - driven with anger on a challenging road the way the plus6 goes is very likely sideways and then off into the ditch/hedge/field etc. No disagreeing Mark - its a major advance but its ever so lively and demands respect apparently.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 08:25 PM

Perhaps we need to re title the thread "The Start of The Next Real Sports Car" laugh2

They had to change or perish like many others guys, and I'm as traditional as they come with my Plus 8 grin2.[i][/i]
Posted By: RobCol

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 16/01/20 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by andymot
According to the "car dealer" magazine I have been reading - they drove a plus6 recently - driven with anger on a challenging road the way the plus6 goes is very likely sideways and then off into the ditch/hedge/field etc. No disagreeing Mark - its a major advance but its ever so lively and demands respect apparently.


If the Plus 6 doesnt have Dynamic Stability Control and Traction Control then 330bhp in a light car has to be a handfull and would demand a fair amount of skill in less than ideal road conditions
Posted By: Peter J

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 17/01/20 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by MDS61
Originally Posted by Peter J


But for the Aero Plus 8 owners, the Plus Six offers little real benefit.


javascript:quickReply(612746,1,0)


Hi Peter,

Not being brutal but honest here (same applies to my Roadster - which is a further step behind your Aero Plus 8) BUT driven in anger on a challenging road you would not see which way the PlusSix went!

The handling and ride and far more compliant and it will of course be better on fuel and the PlusSix has more room and will therefore be less tiring to drive over distances.

As I say - this is progress (and yes I must agree with you...the V8 rumble will NEVER be beaten) but on every other front the PlusSix is much superior...

Of course this is only my opinion rtm


Mark,

the standard Plus 8 suspension isn't perfect, with a little help from SSL and Peter Ballard it is significantly improved. But you are right, someone like Henry Williams in a Plus Six would blast himself in the Plus 8 into the weeds.
BUT...most of us are not in Henry's league. For the average driver, and I class myself as a bit above average in anticipation and reaction time but well below average in bravery, the Plus 8 is preferable.

Why?
The Plus Six, like all modern Turbo engines, delivers maximum torque low low down the rev range. The Plus 8 needs to be well wound up to deliver maxim toque. In our 2 AMGs the various traction/stability devices make it reasonably difficult to get the things to bite. I've tried a C43 on the Mercedes World circuit and even with the traction control "off" the 4 WD makes it impossible to spin. It just under steers.....
The Plus 8 has a LSD, which is good and bad, but in the real world, coupled with a fairly lazy auto box and torque that rises steadily, makes it controllable. My experience with the engine used in the Plus Six, in a BMW M140i, with sophisticated traction control but no LSD, was that the car would bite it too much boot is applied too soon. I talked to Birds BMW Tuning Centre and they strongly advised a Quaife LSD. I'd be very interested to know what they would make of the Plus Six.

So, the Plus Six is, in the right hands, going to be VERY quick. But in the wrong hands it could behave rather wilfully.

Posted By: MDS61

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 17/01/20 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Peter J
Originally Posted by MDS61
Originally Posted by Peter J


But for the Aero Plus 8 owners, the Plus Six offers little real benefit.


javascript:quickReply(612746,1,0)


Hi Peter,

Not being brutal but honest here (same applies to my Roadster - which is a further step behind your Aero Plus 8) BUT driven in anger on a challenging road you would not see which way the PlusSix went!

The handling and ride and far more compliant and it will of course be better on fuel and the PlusSix has more room and will therefore be less tiring to drive over distances.

As I say - this is progress (and yes I must agree with you...the V8 rumble will NEVER be beaten) but on every other front the PlusSix is much superior...

Of course this is only my opinion rtm


Mark,

the standard Plus 8 suspension isn't perfect, with a little help from SSL and Peter Ballard it is significantly improved. But you are right, someone like Henry Williams in a Plus Six would blast himself in the Plus 8 into the weeds.
BUT...most of us are not in Henry's league. For the average driver, and I class myself as a bit above average in anticipation and reaction time but well below average in bravery, the Plus 8 is preferable.

Why?
The Plus Six, like all modern Turbo engines, delivers maximum torque low low down the rev range. The Plus 8 needs to be well wound up to deliver maxim toque. In our 2 AMGs the various traction/stability devices make it reasonably difficult to get the things to bite. I've tried a C43 on the Mercedes World circuit and even with the traction control "off" the 4 WD makes it impossible to spin. It just under steers.....
The Plus 8 has a LSD, which is good and bad, but in the real world, coupled with a fairly lazy auto box and torque that rises steadily, makes it controllable. My experience with the engine used in the Plus Six, in a BMW M140i, with sophisticated traction control but no LSD, was that the car would bite it too much boot is applied too soon. I talked to Birds BMW Tuning Centre and they strongly advised a Quaife LSD. I'd be very interested to know what they would make of the Plus Six.

So, the Plus Six is, in the right hands, going to be VERY quick. But in the wrong hands it could behave rather wilfully.



I agree with all your points above Peter.

I went on a BMW track day last year. The M4 I drove in 100% anger for 15 or so laps (5 with an instructor on board) and 10 on my own, told me a lot about Turbo engines!

The instructor - made it very clear, keep the engine above 4k - that way the low down grunt is removed and you will not spin the thing, so once up to speed (literally!) - you revved them out and pulled another gear.

In the afternoon in a BMW M140i (same engine and gearbox as the PlusSix) I personally felt much more at home - even on a track a BMW M4 is really really fast - but now using what we had learnt in the morning the six cylinder M140i was enjoyed by everyone in our group and I could ring the car's neck. In other words I was in tune with the car.

I therefore think that - if a PlusSix is abused and spins on the road it will be at lower speeds - where the engine is below 3k and the turbo will deliver the low down grunt (which makes these turbo engined cars feel so fast).

So the answer is: rev the nuts off a PlusSix in a lower gear....and you will stay on the tarmac (if wanting to go quick - that is!!) woohoo
Posted By: Quicksilver

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 18/01/20 12:47 PM

I’m sure it will be a pretty car but the gold chassis sounds a bit naff. But if I did not have a current build slot I’d still go for one of the last remaining Plus 4 or Roadster build slots and specc the car exactly as I wanted. It would still be a 2020 Morgan and therefore one of the last. Who needs a gold chassis and a plaque?
Posted By: Luddite

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 18/01/20 01:49 PM

While Harley and so many others have cleverly exploited vulnerability relative to the "collector" market in terms of special edition this that and the other and it seems we may not have learned much despite the years such marketing processes... I think there may exist somewhere more than one claim to ownership of the last +8 Trad...(-: But IF there really is value in the LAST of anything, what about ME..? I am the last person to have joined the MSCC in the 20th century, perhaps if I had a tattoo to that effect... rofl
Posted By: waikiore

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 19/01/20 07:34 AM

Wow that is a hell of a dealer margin on the Aussie 4/4 and a shame that they won't be representing the cars new anymore.
Posted By: Image

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 26/01/20 09:57 AM

Is there any indication of when Trads will actually physically stop being made? ..... Sometime during my travels this year I intended to visit the factory....... My inclination to do this would be much reduced if I couldn't see Trads on the shop floor (no disrespect to other models... It's just what I have)..... With the factory being closed til March and Trad production stopping this year sometime I wondered what window of opportunity I might have?

Cheers

K
Posted By: andymot

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 26/01/20 10:23 AM

Regarding window of opportunity - Allon White have one of the last 20 trad special editions on order and their website says it'll be ready for April. With the springtime Geneva show maybe showcasing the new CX smaller engine/s models I'd guess the factory will be pretty much solely CX and 3 wheelers quite soon so I'm thinking a visit will need to be ASAP once the tours re-open. Even then it may just be too late. I'm only guessing and I'm sure someone who actually knows will be along to enlighten us.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 28/01/20 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by andymot
Regarding window of opportunity - Allon White have one of the last 20 trad special editions on order and their website says it'll be ready for April. With the springtime Geneva show maybe showcasing the new CX smaller engine/s models I'd guess the factory will be pretty much solely CX and 3 wheelers quite soon so I'm thinking a visit will need to be ASAP once the tours re-open. Even then it may just be too late. I'm only guessing and I'm sure someone who actually knows will be along to enlighten us.


Perhaps with Grahams help MMC would allow a special 'closed' TM tour ?
Posted By: Fat Wolfie

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 28/01/20 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by CooperMan
Originally Posted by andymot
Regarding window of opportunity - Allon White have one of the last 20 trad special editions on order and their website says it'll be ready for April. With the springtime Geneva show maybe showcasing the new CX smaller engine/s models I'd guess the factory will be pretty much solely CX and 3 wheelers quite soon so I'm thinking a visit will need to be ASAP once the tours re-open. Even then it may just be too late. I'm only guessing and I'm sure someone who actually knows will be along to enlighten us.


Perhaps with Grahams help MMC would allow a special 'closed' TM tour ?


I’d be up for that thumbs
Posted By: Image

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 28/01/20 12:05 PM

Me too... Timing permitting... Living in the North of Scotland it's not just a nip round the corner for me.... Personally it's the factory floor I want to see... Matters not that I can't get a cream tea or buy a Morgan tea-towel. However, logistics would need to be worked out (was originally hoping to combine it with racing at Shelsley or Prescott to double up on the travel)

K

PS.... posed the same question to MMC... Just got a generic 'thank you for your interest in joining one of our tours' reply... Part about wanting to see Trad being built whizzed right by them. :-)
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 28/01/20 04:47 PM

Maybe we all turn up wearing black arm bands
Posted By: deano

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 28/01/20 05:25 PM

I'll definitely be up for TM gathering
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 28/01/20 10:25 PM

Whenever Blackburn Rovers get relegated from a football division, it’s customary to have a somber mock funeral march around Blackburn carrying a coffin draped in blue and white

Maybe we ought to have a solemn ritualistic walk around Malvern with us as pallbearers carrying a steel ladder chassis
Posted By: RobCol

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 29/01/20 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Stewart S


Maybe we ought to have a solemn ritualistic walk around Malvern with us as pallbearers carrying a steel ladder chassis


Would that be a black or a gold painted one Stewart? laugh2
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 30/01/20 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by RobCol
Originally Posted by Stewart S


Maybe we ought to have a solemn ritualistic walk around Malvern with us as pallbearers carrying a steel ladder chassis


Would that be a black or a gold painted one Stewart? laugh2



Black to match our ties

It can be followed by a procession of TMers bouncing along on pogo sticks made of sliding pillar king pins
Posted By: KEVFITZ

Re: The end of the last real sportscar - 30/01/20 08:14 AM

Stewart..I don't think your medication is working !!!!! ha!!
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