Talk Morgan

New 4cylinder car

Posted By: Robbie

New 4cylinder car - 19/02/20 03:48 PM

OK guys - surely, with only2 weeks or so to go to the Geneva show, someone has seen the new car or a least knows exactly what the spec of the car to be revealed is—- spill the beans— you know you want to!!!!!!!!! grin2
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 19/02/20 04:14 PM

Is there an official statement that there will be a new Plus4 launched this year or is it just the fantasy of many of us here on TM?
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 19/02/20 04:33 PM

There should be “new models” this year. Maybe a Plus 4, maybe an EV, or something completely different?

“In addition to new models planned for 2020, the year will also bring about an opportunity for us to mark the significance of the outgoing traditional steel chassis and its contribution to the marque. Used in Morgan’s core models since 1936, the traditional steel chassis has been an integral part of the Morgan story and we look forward to giving it a fitting send off.” – Steve Morris, CEO, Morgan Motor Company.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 19/02/20 04:43 PM

Well the rumours about a BMW IL6T model was snuffled out by the bloodhounds on TM quite well. Common sense tells me that the lego parts would click together quite well. But there was no real sneak news before the Plus Six actually got displayed.
Posted By: flyfisher

Re: New 4cylinder car - 19/02/20 05:44 PM

There was a autocar spy shot before the Plus 6 launch...
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 19/02/20 06:23 PM

Mmm, it does seem remarkably quiet?

With the PlusSix in production, I cannot imagine that a BMW engined four cylinder could be too difficult - to bring into "being?"
Posted By: DaveW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 19/02/20 06:37 PM

Anyone who blabs will never get to know anything else. But the expected Geneva release isn't really such a big surprise?
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: New 4cylinder car - 19/02/20 11:24 PM

I can tell you quite confidentially that the new model will be a total surprise.

In absolute confidence, mind you, and not to be discussed outside the inner circle, the new engine will be the BMW N74B68, V12 6,749 cc (411.8 cu in) which developes 420 kW (563 hp) at 5,250 rpm and 900 N⋅m (664 lb⋅ft) at 1,500 rpm. The engine will be the core of the new Sports SUV and is intended to cater for those who find the PlusSix too tame and firmly believe that too much power is never enough. The new AWD SSUV will carry special lead ballast to keep it on the ground. The lead ballast is specially designed to fill the battery compartment which has been cleverly included in the the design to simplify the switch to an AWD SSUV BEV. The new vehicle simply knew as the Morgan XS.

Remember you heard it first on Talk Morgan.

PS. Don't tell a soul: sssssh!
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 19/02/20 11:54 PM

I already knew it and that's why I have already gained 25 kg of weight to keep the car on the ground.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 20/02/20 12:26 AM


Well it is a Plus Four but not as we know it the Italian's have insisted it's a car for the future and has good environmental credentials and I've seen it already..







[Linked Image]
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 20/02/20 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by +8Rich

Well it is a Plus Four but not as we know it the Italian's have insisted it's a car for the future and has good environmental credentials and I've seen it already..







[Linked Image]


Very good!


grin2
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: New 4cylinder car - 20/02/20 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by +8Rich

Well it is a Plus Four but not as we know it the Italian's have insisted it's a car for the future and has good environmental credentials and I've seen it already..

[Linked Image]

Actually pretty horrendous environmental credentials (unless you run a plant nursery - roses in particular!) grin2


Originally Posted by DaveW
Anyone who blabs will never get to know anything else. But the expected Geneva release isn't really such a big surprise?

Or the sack... smile
Posted By: Peter J

Re: New 4cylinder car - 20/02/20 10:25 AM

I think the Morgan XS is a certainty.
The only question is "will it look as gorgeous as the RR Cullinan?"
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 20/02/20 11:28 AM

Damn for a moment then I thought you had inside information. It sounded just my kind of car. A wooden framed MB G63 but with a V12. I had already abused my piggybank and put the S2 and ML63 up for sale allowing me to combine the performance of the S2 with the huge-german-formal-black-pimp-wagon of the ML63 whilst enjoying leaks just like a real Morgan. I had better take the adverts down. Maybe Geneva 2021?
Posted By: Robbie

Re: New 4cylinder car - 20/02/20 11:47 AM

Speculation is such fun, isn't it!!!!!
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: New 4cylinder car - 20/02/20 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Heinz
I already knew it and that's why I have already gained 25 kg of weight to keep the car on the ground.


I'm sure I read years ago that the Porsche factory tried filling the front bumper on the early 911's with lead, to try and balance the propensity to spin
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 20/02/20 03:56 PM

That is true, Jon, regarding the very first SWB cars. Then later in 1972 re the LWB cars they moved the oil tank further to the front to achieve a better weight balance, therefore she got this additional filler neck. But too many (American) filled petrol there instead of oil (at least the gas station service staff) so the 1973 cars had the oil tank removed backwards.
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: New 4cylinder car - 20/02/20 09:28 PM

I had a Type 3 VW for a while. Other than the fact that the engine kept falling out of it every time it found a curve on a downhill wet road it wanted to go straight ahead. Now that I think about it I don't know why I didn't think to keep a bag of cement in the front of it.
Posted By: Soleng

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Heinz
Is there an official statement that there will be a new Plus4 launched this year or is it just the fantasy of many of us here on TM?

Yes, there us now on Instagram.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Soleng
Originally Posted by Heinz
Is there an official statement that there will be a new Plus4 launched this year or is it just the fantasy of many of us here on TM?

Yes, there us now on Instagram.


From Facebook:

Originally Posted by Morgan Motor Company

With just over a week to go, we are excited to confirm that we will be revealing an all-new model at the Geneva International Motor Show. The show car is now finished and on its way to Switzerland ready to be revealed on the first press day. Featuring a four cylinder engine and optional manual transmission, we can’t wait for you to meet the next model to be based on our latest CX-Generation aluminium platform. See you on March 3rd
Posted By: PeterG

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 12:37 PM

[Linked Image]

Looks like a low door narrow bodied supercharged version under the cover hide
Posted By: flyfisher

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 12:37 PM

It looks like it has the CX / +8 Wing style rather than the more classic traditional curves..
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 12:59 PM

And we know its BMW under the two louvred bonnets ?
Posted By: PeterG

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 01:14 PM

Looking at the high roof line it could be a +4+
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 01:30 PM

How do you see out of the windscreen?

thinking
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 01:32 PM

Steve BMW does seem to be the favourite supplier. Rumour has it there was a proto type with a BMW engine.
Posted By: Stringers Best Mate

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 01:37 PM

Optional manual gearbox.. Cost option, I bet.. £5k..?
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 01:38 PM

The lighting on the cover is wrong if it was genuinely in the brightly lit PDI bays, looks like some photoshop copy n paste to me

Only around 10 days to wait anyway...
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 01:50 PM

Good and interesting news! Thanks for sharing.
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 01:58 PM

I was thinking of going to Geneva but since you lot have already disclosed all the surprises I have decided it is not worth the effort somestick
Posted By: TBM

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 02:06 PM

Got a factory tour booked for the 28th of March so should see it in all its glory smile
Posted By: Quicksilver

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 02:14 PM

I think I saw it when I was at the factory last week. I don't know what the engines is. If it's the one I think it is then it's dark grey and was near my car. That's all I know !
Posted By: Peter J

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 02:31 PM

If we assume it is the BMW turbo 4 cylinder the engine will be 2/3rds the length, so leaving quite a bit of space at the front = front/mid engined.
I'd hope the manual box is a no cost option....: would it also be lighter than the auto box?
The B58 engine is offered in a range of power outputs, up to 302bhp. To be honest, if they use the 302 bhp version what is the point of the Plus Six? The 255bhp version would be a better "fit".
Posted By: Malcolm Hoar

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by PeterG
[Linked Image]

Looks like a low door narrow bodied supercharged version under the cover hide

Oh look it comes with a Burkha hide
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 04:04 PM

Looking at the height off the floor I suspect we have all been hoodwinked. I have been thinking about it and have cracked it.

It is a 4-cyl Turbo off-roader in the manner of the Audi A4 Allroad and Volvo V70 Cross Country. They have added 2 more seats having managed to fix the ISOFIX issue with the new CX chassis.
Also in order to retain the roof-line the rear seats are backwards facing to get the authentic annoying children waving at you from the car in front experience of the old Volvo's.

Yes thats it. a Morgan SUV, or as we can call it the "woody" like the old Morris Minor Woody wagons? Plus (H)Eight maybe?
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Alistair
Looking at the height off the floor I suspect we have all been hoodwinked. I have been thinking about it and have cracked it.

It is a 4-cyl Turbo off-roader in the manner of the Audi A4 Allroad and Volvo V70 Cross Country. They have added 2 more seats having managed to fix the ISOFIX issue with the new CX chassis.
Also in order to retain the roof-line the rear seats are backwards facing to get the authentic annoying children waving at you from the car in front experience of the old Volvo's.

Yes thats it. a Morgan SUV, or as we can call it the "woody" like the old Morris Minor Woody wagons? Plus (H)Eight maybe?



Have you been "on" the strong stuff???? laugh2
Posted By: Stringers Best Mate

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Gambalunga
I was thinking of going to Geneva but since you lot have already disclosed all the surprises I have decided it is not worth the effort somestick


You'll be in quarantine by then..
Posted By: P Dron

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 05:00 PM

I wonder if the Geneva Show will actually happen.
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Peter J
If we assume it is the BMW turbo 4 cylinder the engine will be 2/3rds the length, so leaving quite a bit of space at the front = front/mid engined.
I'd hope the manual box is a no cost option....: would it also be lighter than the auto box?
The B58 engine is offered in a range of power outputs, up to 302bhp. To be honest, if they use the 302 bhp version what is the point of the Plus Six? The 255bhp version would be a better "fit".





TBH Peter, I don't think it needs to be even "that" powerful i.e. the 255BHP you suggest?

If you take a Trad Plus4 the power plant is circa 150 BHP - so CX 4 cylinder models maybe/should be 200BHP - to keep the PlusSix "the top/fastest model" and priced accordingly?
Posted By: Peter J

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Alistair
Looking at the height off the floor I suspect we have all been hoodwinked. I have been thinking about it and have cracked it.

It is a 4-cyl Turbo off-roader in the manner of the Audi A4 Allroad and Volvo V70 Cross Country. They have added 2 more seats having managed to fix the ISOFIX issue with the new CX chassis.
Also in order to retain the roof-line the rear seats are backwards facing to get the authentic annoying children waving at you from the car in front experience of the old Volvo's.

Yes thats it. a Morgan SUV, or as we can call it the "woody" like the old Morris Minor Woody wagons? Plus (H)Eight maybe?


I think you are right, the headlights under the cover are quite high, it seems to me.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by MDS61
Originally Posted by Peter J
If we assume it is the BMW turbo 4 cylinder the engine will be 2/3rds the length, so leaving quite a bit of space at the front = front/mid engined.
I'd hope the manual box is a no cost option....: would it also be lighter than the auto box?
The B58 engine is offered in a range of power outputs, up to 302bhp. To be honest, if they use the 302 bhp version what is the point of the Plus Six? The 255bhp version would be a better "fit".





TBH Peter, I don't think it needs to be even "that" powerful i.e. the 255BHP you suggest?

If you take a Trad Plus4 the power plant is circa 150 BHP - so CX 4 cylinder models maybe/should be 200BHP - to keep the PlusSix "the top/fastest model" and priced accordingly?


The 2.0L B48 BMW goes from 180 to 302 bhp in its various guises.
there is the F20, developed jointly with PSA, that has a 1600cc version, but it is nearing the end of its life, so I would expect the B58.
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by MDS61
Originally Posted by Peter J
If we assume it is the BMW turbo 4 cylinder the engine will be 2/3rds the length, so leaving quite a bit of space at the front = front/mid engined.
I'd hope the manual box is a no cost option....: would it also be lighter than the auto box?
The B58 engine is offered in a range of power outputs, up to 302bhp. To be honest, if they use the 302 bhp version what is the point of the Plus Six? The 255bhp version would be a better "fit".





TBH Peter, I don't think it needs to be even "that" powerful i.e. the 255BHP you suggest?

If you take a Trad Plus4 the power plant is circa 150 BHP - so CX 4 cylinder models maybe/should be 200BHP - to keep the PlusSix "the top/fastest model" and priced accordingly?




So do we know what actual power 4cyl turbo engine it is ? And presumably if they put a lower powered one in then it can be upgraded to the higher bhp anyway by re map ? arr

302 bhp sounds very useful ! shocked2
Posted By: Stringers Best Mate

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by P Dron
I wonder if the Geneva Show will actually happen.


That's an interesting thought, Peter. It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility, given the rate at which that virus spreads..
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by CooperMan
The lighting on the cover is wrong if it was genuinely in the brightly lit PDI bays, looks like some photoshop copy n paste to me

Only around 10 days to wait anyway...

March 3rd is Tuesday next week.

And it's a genuine photo. Why Photoshop a car that is under a cover?

And NO, I'm not saying what the car is. smile smile smile

Originally Posted by Malcolm Hoar
Oh look it comes with a Burkha hide

rofl
Very good!
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by MDS61
Originally Posted by Alistair
Looking at the height off the floor I suspect we have all been hoodwinked. I have been thinking about it and have cracked it.

It is a 4-cyl Turbo off-roader in the manner of the Audi A4 Allroad and Volvo V70 Cross Country. They have added 2 more seats having managed to fix the ISOFIX issue with the new CX chassis.
Also in order to retain the roof-line the rear seats are backwards facing to get the authentic annoying children waving at you from the car in front experience of the old Volvo's.

Yes thats it. a Morgan SUV, or as we can call it the "woody" like the old Morris Minor Woody wagons? Plus (H)Eight maybe?



Have you been "on" the strong stuff???? laugh2

Smokin' cowboy his customers supply laugh2
Posted By: SFO

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 06:53 PM

maybe it’s the 181hp 4 cylinder from Mazda
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Graham, G4FUJ
Originally Posted by CooperMan
The lighting on the cover is wrong if it was genuinely in the brightly lit PDI bays, looks like some photoshop copy n paste to me

Only around 10 days to wait anyway...

March 3rd is Tuesday next week.

And it's a genuine photo. Why Photoshop a car that is under a cover?

And NO, I'm not saying what the car is. smile smile smile

{quote=Malcolm Hoar]Oh look it comes with a Burkha hide[/img]
rofl
Very good!




Looks like we know a fair bit now ! sherlock
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/02/20 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by SFO
maybe it’s the 181hp 4 cylinder from Mazda
That is what I would like to install in my 4/4.
Posted By: PeterG

Re: New 4cylinder car - 25/02/20 06:41 AM

Link to Autocar article
Posted By: Fox Terrier

Re: New 4cylinder car - 25/02/20 07:28 AM

I’ve had a couple of four cylinder BMWs and have always found their manual gearbox rather ‘notchy’ and unsatisfying. Their auto boxes on the other hand have been a delight. Their new manual box might be different. All speculation!
Posted By: tommog

Re: New 4cylinder car - 25/02/20 07:59 AM

Rumours say that it will be a +4 with four cylinder BMW turbo engine as mentioned before. And it will have around 250 PS.
That could be a very intersting car, but I am curious how they will make it to look good! Even the +6 with its really wide body and quite narrow wings doesn`t look the point. The proportions just don´t really fit. And as I heard, they use the same wide cx chassis and just fit even narrower wings. I hope the best, but I fear that I will not like it.
Posted By: Jens

Re: New 4cylinder car - 25/02/20 09:12 AM

I agree. Especially with the boxy new wings it would´t look good.
Posted By: pete757

Re: New 4cylinder car - 25/02/20 10:30 AM

Trads ROCK! cheers drive shades
Posted By: DaveW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 25/02/20 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by tommog
Rumours say that it will be a +4 with four cylinder BMW turbo engine as mentioned before. And it will have around 250 PS.
That could be a very intersting car, but I am curious how they will make it to look good! Even the +6 with its really wide body and quite narrow wings doesn`t look the point. The proportions just don´t really fit. And as I heard, they use the same wide cx chassis and just fit even narrower wings. I hope the best, but I fear that I will not like it.


Exactly this, the briefing said retain the current tub but with a smaller footprint. The P6 has quite narrow running boards anyway, so unless they do something about the wing profile it may look like hunched shoulders from the front.

However....I didn't like the Aero Plus 8 front end when it was launched, but it has grown on me now.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 25/02/20 03:33 PM

Given the Aero 8 Series 5 vs the Aero Plus 8 I really liked both the front and back end on the Plus 8 over the S5. I am glad they did the CX in a trad body first before anything else spins off it.
Posted By: deano

Re: New 4cylinder car - 25/02/20 06:26 PM

Article just released on Pistonheads confirming a new 4 cylinder CX will be announced at Geneva. Power suggested is 306bhp!
Posted By: Soleng

Re: New 4cylinder car - 25/02/20 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by deano
Article just released on Pistonheads confirming a new 4 cylinder CX will be announced at Geneva. Power suggested is 306bhp!

My guess is that the entry model will have the 197 hp engine of the BMW Z4 sDrive20i.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 25/02/20 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Soleng
Originally Posted by deano
Article just released on Pistonheads confirming a new 4 cylinder CX will be announced at Geneva. Power suggested is 306bhp!

My guess is that the entry model will have the 197 hp engine of the BMW Z4 sDrive20i.

That would be perfect Soleng just like the Classic Plus 8 with a little better suspension if not as long lasting..
The Aero's seem to destroy theirs in very quick time.
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 12:27 AM

The press release stating that a manual gearbox as an ‘option’ is a bit disappointing though
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 04:33 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if nowadays the manual transmission costs extra, and not the automatic transmission.
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Stewart S
The press release stating that a manual gearbox as an ‘option’ is a bit disappointing though


Better than having "no option" though Stewart?
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Stewart S
The press release stating that a manual gearbox as an ‘option’ is a bit disappointing though

The manual will be a deal maker for a lot of prospective customers even if it does cost a few pennies more grin2
As Soleng said 190 bhp will be spot on power wise.
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Stewart S
The press release stating that a manual gearbox as an ‘option’ is a bit disappointing though

The manual will be a deal maker for a lot of prospective customers even if it does cost a few pennies more grin2
As Soleng said 190 bhp will be spot on power wise.


I agree but that it will be an ‘option’ makes me think that A) it will be expensive B) a less than ideal and possibly a problematic mating of a manual gearbox and engine that probably wasn’t designed to be mated with a manual box
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Stewart S
The press release stating that a manual gearbox as an ‘option’ is a bit disappointing though

The manual will be a deal maker for a lot of prospective customers even if it does cost a few pennies more grin2
As Soleng said 190 bhp will be spot on power wise.


I must confess to being a wee bit confused about the aversion to auto boxes. Don't they have an option to select gears manually any more?

The only auto box car I ever drove regularly was a Vauxhall Cavalier back in the early 1990's and you could just take it out of drive and use the box manually. Made an otherwise tedious car a bit more interesting to drive on twisty bits. I did have a short drive in a mate's BMW 5 series and that seemed so competent in auto mode I didn't bother to try and use it manually.

I can well understand not wanting the complexity of a modern car, but in that case why consider buying a new Morgan in the first place? There are loads of used ones about to give that authentic classic vibe.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Stewart S
The press release stating that a manual gearbox as an ‘option’ is a bit disappointing though

The manual will be a deal maker for a lot of prospective customers even if it does cost a few pennies more grin2
As Soleng said 190 bhp will be spot on power wise.


I must confess to being a wee bit confused about the aversion to auto boxes. Don't they have an option to select gears manually any more?

The only auto box car I ever drove regularly was a Vauxhall Cavalier back in the early 1990's and you could just take it out of drive and use the box manually. Made an otherwise tedious car a bit more interesting to drive on twisty bits. I did have a short drive in a mate's BMW 5 series and that seemed so competent in auto mode I didn't bother to try and use it manually.

I can well understand not wanting the complexity of a modern car, but in that case why consider buying a new Morgan in the first place? There are loads of used ones about to give that authentic classic vibe.

I have had both over the years and prefer autos for lazy town driving without doubt but not in a Morgan for me, I shall be very interested to see the "manual" uptake as one of the complaints about the Plus Six was the gear lever and box, we shall see in time what the customer wants.

It's nice to have the choice in a bespoke car so well done MMC.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Stewart S
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Stewart S
The press release stating that a manual gearbox as an ‘option’ is a bit disappointing though

The manual will be a deal maker for a lot of prospective customers even if it does cost a few pennies more grin2
As Soleng said 190 bhp will be spot on power wise.


I agree but that it will be an ‘option’ makes me think that A) it will be expensive B) a less than ideal and possibly a problematic mating of a manual gearbox and engine that probably wasn’t designed to be mated with a manual box

Hopefully the engine and box will come from a tried and tested combination, I take your point though.

I am wondering if they will offer a 4 seater Stewart ?

Perhaps that will be the big Geneva reveal and could explain the higher stance of the Burkah car laugh2
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich

......There are loads of used ones about to give that authentic classic vibe.


Yes - Williams have about 25 Morgans, including an Aero Coupe....

grin2
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
I can well understand not wanting the complexity of a modern car, but in that case why consider buying a new Morgan in the first place? There are loads of used ones about to give that authentic classic vibe.

Why would someone consider buying a new Morgan? An interesting question smile

Morgan could have updated the chassis in the 50s. At that time everyone else was moving away from an underslung chassis and were arching the chassis rails above the rear axle. The benefit was simply greater suspension travel for the rear axle - ie less bottoming out or topping out over bumps.

Morgan could have moved to double wishbone suspension in the 60s. By then the few other manufacturers that were using some variant of sliding pillar suspension had moved to more modern front suspension systems that did not require regular greasing. In effect the commonly used MacPherson strut could be seen as a cross between a wishbone and sliding pillar suspension but a double wishbone is probably more suitable for the Morgan.

Morgan could have moved to independent rear suspension by the 90s. By that stage only big American cars, light trucks and utility vehicles were not using independent rear suspension.

Until the development of the Aero series Morgan left themselves behind in chassis and suspension technology. If they had made small advances over the years many buyers could easily be satisfied by the existing trad range. Most people who buy a trad don't even know that the kingpins need to be greased regularly.

Now we are making a quantum leap, not to the future, but to 2020. This is why someone would want to buy a new Morgan. To have a vehicle that looks like a classic but rides and handles like a modern sports car, to have a vehicle that has ABS (just in case) and at least the option of aircon, to have a vehicle that looks like a classic but you don't have to get your hands dirty, you don't even have to think about servicing it until you take it to the dealer every 20,000 km.

For those who want a brand new vintage car there are still plenty of trads at dealers and the final Plus 4 can be ordered. When they have gone, and unless the current production complies with Euro 6D they will have to be registered before Jan 2021, it will be used only.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 02:23 PM

The B58 4 cylinder is sold with both auto and manual transmissions, this is the list for the 248 bhp version

2016–present G30 530i
2016–present F22 230i[10]
2016–present F32/F33/F36 430i
2018–present G01 X3 xDrive30i
2018–present G02 X4 xDrive30i
2020–present G01 X3 xDrive30e (PHEV Version)

And the 228 bhp version...2014–present F56 MINI JCW Hardtop and JCW Cabrio (320 Nm)[9]
2017–present F56 MINI JCW Clubman and JCW Countryman ALL4 (350 Nm)
2015–present F22 225i
2016–present F48 X1 25i/28i
2017–present F39 X2 25i/28i
2019–current F44 228i Gran Coupé xDrive

So I don't see any problem for MMC to offer a nice, slick BMW manual box.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Gambalunga
This is why someone would want to buy a new Morgan. To have a vehicle that looks like a classic but rides and handles like a modern sports car, to have a vehicle that has ABS (just in case) and at least the option of aircon, to have a vehicle that looks like a classic but you don't have to get your hands dirty, you don't even have to think about servicing it until you take it to the dealer every 20,000 km.


This is exactly my point. I completely understand why someone might want a traditionally-styled car but with up to date underpinnings, and that's what a modern Morgan delivers.

I also understand why someone would want a traditional Morgan with none of those fancy modern fripperies. The thing is, you can easily buy one of these for far less money than buying new, so why worry that you can't get them new any more? £30k will buy a completely mint +4 with relatively few miles on it, you could throw another £10 or 15k at it getting it set up and personalised exactly to your specification, stick an ageless plate on it so nobody would know how old it actually was and still have £15k left over the price of a new one.
Posted By: bmgermany

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by Gambalunga
This is why someone would want to buy a new Morgan. To have a vehicle that looks like a classic but rides and handles like a modern sports car, to have a vehicle that has ABS (just in case) and at least the option of aircon, to have a vehicle that looks like a classic but you don't have to get your hands dirty, you don't even have to think about servicing it until you take it to the dealer every 20,000 km.


This is exactly my point. I completely understand why someone might want a traditionally-styled car but with up to date underpinnings, and that's what a modern Morgan delivers.

I also understand why someone would want a traditional Morgan with none of those fancy modern fripperies. The thing is, you can easily buy one of these for far less money than buying new, so why worry that you can't get them new any more? £30k will buy a completely mint +4 with relatively few miles on it, you could throw another £10 or 15k at it getting it set up and personalised exactly to your specification, stick an ageless plate on it so nobody would know how old it actually was and still have £15k left over the price of a new one.





A side note: When I see the prices of pre owned cars in GB and compare them with the price in Germany pale
Germany is expensive...
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Stewart S
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Stewart S
The press release stating that a manual gearbox as an ‘option’ is a bit disappointing though

The manual will be a deal maker for a lot of prospective customers even if it does cost a few pennies more grin2
As Soleng said 190 bhp will be spot on power wise.


I agree but that it will be an ‘option’ makes me think that A) it will be expensive B) a less than ideal and possibly a problematic mating of a manual gearbox and engine that probably wasn’t designed to be mated with a manual box

Hopefully the engine and box will come from a tried and tested combination, I take your point though.

I am wondering if they will offer a 4 seater Stewart ?

Perhaps that will be the big Geneva reveal and could explain the higher stance of the Burkah car laugh2


That might be interesting

Someone did say that the new chassis can be adapted as a 4 seater but my guess is that legislation for a 4 seater in European markets might be tougher to comply with now but I’m no expert
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Gambalunga
This is why someone would want to buy a new Morgan. To have a vehicle that looks like a classic but rides and handles like a modern sports car, to have a vehicle that has ABS (just in case) and at least the option of aircon, to have a vehicle that looks like a classic but you don't have to get your hands dirty, you don't even have to think about servicing it until you take it to the dealer every 20,000 km.


thumbs
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by Gambalunga
This is why someone would want to buy a new Morgan. To have a vehicle that looks like a classic but rides and handles like a modern sports car, to have a vehicle that has ABS (just in case) and at least the option of aircon, to have a vehicle that looks like a classic but you don't have to get your hands dirty, you don't even have to think about servicing it until you take it to the dealer every 20,000 km.


This is exactly my point. I completely understand why someone might want a traditionally-styled car but with up to date underpinnings, and that's what a modern Morgan delivers.

I also understand why someone would want a traditional Morgan with none of those fancy modern fripperies. The thing is, you can easily buy one of these for far less money than buying new, so why worry that you can't get them new any more? £30k will buy a completely mint +4 with relatively few miles on it, you could throw another £10 or 15k at it getting it set up and personalised exactly to your specification, stick an ageless plate on it so nobody would know how old it actually was and still have £15k left over the price of a new one.





That is where I feel my Roadster is " I have put a dateless plate on it and it has 10K on it now (it is 2004)" - 99.5% of people have no idea how old it is, most think it is 1970's and has had a respray/restoration!!!

I do think people will be drawn to the CX Morgan - as it looks the same as most Morgan's but has modern underpinning's? That IS the attraction?
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by MDS61
ion!!!

I do think people will be drawn to the CX Morgan - as it looks the same as most Morgan's but has modern underpinning's? That IS the attraction?



I'm sure you're right. If I could afford one with a power plant suitable for my needs I'd be hugely tempted, an auto box wouldn't bother me at all.
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: New 4cylinder car - 26/02/20 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Peter J
The B58 4 cylinder is sold with both auto and manual transmissions, this is the list for the 248 bhp version

2016–present G30 530i
2016–present F22 230i[10]
2016–present F32/F33/F36 430i
2018–present G01 X3 xDrive30i
2018–present G02 X4 xDrive30i
2020–present G01 X3 xDrive30e (PHEV Version)

And the 228 bhp version...2014–present F56 MINI JCW Hardtop and JCW Cabrio (320 Nm)[9]
2017–present F56 MINI JCW Clubman and JCW Countryman ALL4 (350 Nm)
2015–present F22 225i
2016–present F48 X1 25i/28i
2017–present F39 X2 25i/28i
2019–current F44 228i Gran Coupé xDrive

So I don't see any problem for MMC to offer a nice, slick BMW manual box.

Without going nuts and checking out every model you mention, how many of those are in-line rear wheel drive?
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/02/20 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Peter J
The B58 B48 4 cylinder is sold with both auto and manual transmissions, this is the list for the 248 bhp version

2016–present G30 530i
2016–present F22 230i[10]
2016–present F32/F33/F36 430i
2018–present G01 X3 xDrive30i
2018–present G02 X4 xDrive30i
2020–present G01 X3 xDrive30e (PHEV Version)

And the 228 bhp version...2014–present F56 MINI JCW Hardtop and JCW Cabrio (320 Nm)[9]
2017–present F56 MINI JCW Clubman and JCW Countryman ALL4 (350 Nm)
2015–present F22 225i
2016–present F48 X1 25i/28i
2017–present F39 X2 25i/28i
2019–current F44 228i Gran Coupé xDrive

So I don't see any problem for MMC to offer a nice, slick BMW manual box.
Posted By: titus

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/02/20 11:29 AM

Autoevolution have a good article with the options. BMW with manual option looks favourite. The Ford options do not make sense.
News from Morgan that the car was on its way on Monday.
Not long now TMers.
Somebody knows and is sworn to secrecy.
This feels a bit surreal getting excited by new Morgan models.
It is like 1911 and 1932 for the 3 wheelers and 1936 for the 4 wheelers. Well before our time.
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/02/20 11:52 AM

Yes and just heard the Geneva show is definitely going ahead despite Corona Virus scare.

The 2016 onwards B48 190kW/255hp version sounds right to me, maintaining a reasonable power gap with the plus 6. Ironically this unit is also used in the 2 litre version of the Toyota Supra as is the 6 cylinder B58 used in the plus 6..
Posted By: meabh

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/02/20 03:01 PM

[Linked Image]

This is my new 4cylinder car - sorry, could not resist.
Posted By: Jens

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/02/20 03:32 PM

laugh Your photo is way cooler...
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/02/20 04:52 PM

And more menacing evil
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/02/20 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by Gambalunga
Originally Posted by Peter J
The B58 4 cylinder is sold with both auto and manual transmissions, this is the list for the 248 bhp version

2016–present G30 530i
2016–present F22 230i[10]
2016–present F32/F33/F36 430i
2018–present G01 X3 xDrive30i
2018–present G02 X4 xDrive30i
2020–present G01 X3 xDrive30e (PHEV Version)

And the 228 bhp version...2014–present F56 MINI JCW Hardtop and JCW Cabrio (320 Nm)[9]
2017–present F56 MINI JCW Clubman and JCW Countryman ALL4 (350 Nm)
2015–present F22 225i
2016–present F48 X1 25i/28i
2017–present F39 X2 25i/28i
2019–current F44 228i Gran Coupé xDrive

So I don't see any problem for MMC to offer a nice, slick BMW manual box.

Without going nuts and checking out every model you mention, how many of those are in-line rear wheel drive?


Top point Peter

I’m guessing, not many
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/02/20 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Stewart S
Originally Posted by Gambalunga
Originally Posted by Peter J
The B58 4 cylinder is sold with both auto and manual transmissions, this is the list for the 248 bhp version

2016–present G30 530i
2016–present F22 230i[10]
2016–present F32/F33/F36 430i
2018–present G01 X3 xDrive30i
2018–present G02 X4 xDrive30i
2020–present G01 X3 xDrive30e (PHEV Version)

And the 228 bhp version...2014–present F56 MINI JCW Hardtop and JCW Cabrio (320 Nm)[9]
2017–present F56 MINI JCW Clubman and JCW Countryman ALL4 (350 Nm)
2015–present F22 225i
2016–present F48 X1 25i/28i
2017–present F39 X2 25i/28i
2019–current F44 228i Gran Coupé xDrive

So I don't see any problem for MMC to offer a nice, slick BMW manual box.

Without going nuts and checking out every model you mention, how many of those are in-line rear wheel drive?




I’m guessing, not many


G30 is RWD
F22 is FWD
F32 is RWD
G01 is AWD (but has North South layout)
G02 s AWD (but has North South layout)
G01 e s AWD (but has North South layout)

F56 is FWD
F56 is FWD
F22 is FWD
F48 is RWD
F39 is FWD
F44 is RWD

So at least 50% are RWD?
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 06:23 AM

Well that hopefully means the manual gearbox version should be a good option then

I’ve nothing against auto boxes. I wouldn’t be without one for my daily driver as I drive about 40K miles a year and have done for 25 in business as I have clients all over the country

I just like my Morgan to be a completely different experience and a manual gearbox is part of that experience
Posted By: Quicksilver

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Stewart S
Well that hopefully means the manual gearbox version should be a good option then

I’ve nothing against auto boxes. I wouldn’t be without one for my daily driver as I drive about 40K miles a year and have done for 25 in business as I have clients all over the country

I just like my Morgan to be a completely different experience and a manual gearbox is part of that experience


I completely agree with that. A manual box keeps you in close contact and control with the car and enhances the sports car experience.

Will all be revealed today in Geneva?
Posted By: P Dron

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Quicksilver
[quote=Stewart S].

Will all be revealed today in Geneva?


Geneva press days (assuming the show goes ahead) are next Tuesday and Wednesday.
Posted By: BLG83

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 10:57 AM

Genève cancelled
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by BLG83
Genève cancelled

Thanks for the update - no other responsible option for them really. Cancellation
Posted By: deano

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by BLG83
Genève cancelled


That's a big decision.
Posted By: A11OGE

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 11:14 AM

first of many I would expect....

until the it has spread to the entire world, then it will not make any difference wher you go. Let's hope it will not get that bad.



Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by BLG83
Genève cancelled

Thanks for the update - no other responsible option for them really. Cancellation
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by deano
Originally Posted by BLG83
Genève cancelled


That's a big decision.


Yes, you can see why it's hitting businesses hard. The trouble is many people seem to behaving very irresponsibly at the moment. The "I don't feel ill so I can't be spreading it" attitude seems to be very common.
Posted By: P Dron

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 11:37 AM

Sad about the show, but not surprised. I reported from there every year but one from 1977 until 2007. The MMC should now do something imaginative: the show car could be transported to the top of the Col de la Faucille, above Geneva, taken off the lorry and filmed in one of the attractive spots up there.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by A11OGE
first of many I would expect....

until the it has spread to the entire world, then it will not make any difference wher you go. Let's hope it will not get that bad.



Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by BLG83
Genève cancelled

Thanks for the update - no other responsible option for them really. Cancellation


I'm sure it will be - lets hope it doesn't claim too many lives as it gathers pace.

This is only a car show after all.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by P Dron
Sad about the show, but not surprised. I reported from there every year but one from 1977 until 2007. The MMC should now do something imaginative: the show car could be transported to the top of the Col de la Faucille, above Geneva, taken off the lorry and filmed in one of the attractive spots up there.


Or they could drop it off at your house and you could drive it around to some local beauty spots? wink
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 11:51 AM

They'll do an online reveal I reckon thumbs
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by P Dron
Sad about the show, but not surprised. I reported from there every year but one from 1977 until 2007. The MMC should now do something imaginative: the show car could be transported to the top of the Col de la Faucille, above Geneva, taken off the lorry and filmed in one of the attractive spots up there.


Or they could drop it off at your house and you could drive it around to some local beauty spots? wink

Perhaps Peter and Wilson (Laidlaw) could get together for a road trip and extended road test of the new car smile
Posted By: P Dron

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by P Dron
Sad about the show, but not surprised. I reported from there every year but one from 1977 until 2007. The MMC should now do something imaginative: the show car could be transported to the top of the Col de la Faucille, above Geneva, taken off the lorry and filmed in one of the attractive spots up there.


Or they could drop it off at your house and you could drive it around to some local beauty spots? wink


Now that's an even better idea!
Posted By: P Dron

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Graham, G4FUJ
Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by P Dron
Sad about the show, but not surprised. I reported from there every year but one from 1977 until 2007. The MMC should now do something imaginative: the show car could be transported to the top of the Col de la Faucille, above Geneva, taken off the lorry and filmed in one of the attractive spots up there.


Or they could drop it off at your house and you could drive it around to some local beauty spots? wink

Perhaps Peter and Wilson (Laidlaw) could get together for a road trip and extended road test of the new car smile


I'd be up for that.
Posted By: PeterG

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 12:21 PM

Flights and hotel pre paid. At least it won't busy there next week.
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by P Dron
Sad about the show, but not surprised. I reported from there every year but one from 1977 until 2007. The MMC should now do something imaginative: the show car could be transported to the top of the Col de la Faucille, above Geneva, taken off the lorry and filmed in one of the attractive spots up there.



Excellent idea , a nice video of this with the driver opening the bonnet and explaining the ;power options ? innocent
Posted By: Stringers Best Mate

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 12:58 PM



Originally Posted by PeterG
Flights and hotel pre paid. At least it won't busy there next week.


If you were in a marching band, you’d have a piano..!
Posted By: PeterG

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Stringers Best Mate


Originally Posted by PeterG
Flights and hotel pre paid. At least it won't busy there next week.


If you were in a marching band, you’d have a piano..!


innocent
Posted By: PeterG

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 01:26 PM

Tickets are apparently going to be refunded.

GIMS
Posted By: P Dron

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by PeterG
Tickets are apparently going to be refunded.

GIMS



But not hotel bills! It will be interesting to follow the negotiations between exhibitors and the show organizers. There is a lot of money involved in this...
Posted By: 1560

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by P Dron
Originally Posted by PeterG
Tickets are apparently going to be refunded.

GIMS



But not hotel bills!

800€ à la poubelle :-(
(in the trashcan)
Posted By: Roady

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/02/20 06:31 PM

It's my 70th early next month. They could come round to our place. cheers
Posted By: RobCol

Re: New 4cylinder car - 29/02/20 06:52 PM



Launching the new Plus 4 in the 1914 part of the Morgan Works next Tuesday. You can arrange viewings via dealers in the coming weeks.
Posted By: P Dron

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/03/20 08:47 AM

shorturl.at/uP015
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/03/20 08:56 AM

If we don’t do FaceAche (nor Twitbook or InstaTik) does this mean we can’t watch the launch? Genuine question coz I don’t know nuttin’ about this kinda stuff. I cut and pasted that link which takes me to the Morgan one but every 5 seconds after pressing X to stop the “join up” box it reprompts which is tiresome and makes it unviewable....and I would like to watch if ‘twere possible.
Thanks for any thoughts
HB
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/03/20 08:56 AM

Seems quick enough.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9KRftUH7Nb/

Being driven back from Geneva apparently.
Posted By: P Dron

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/03/20 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by HeadlessBlue
If we don’t do FaceAche (nor Twitbook or InstaTik) does this mean we can’t watch the launch? Genuine question coz I don’t know nuttin’ about this kinda stuff. I cut and pasted that link which takes me to the Morgan one but every 5 seconds after pressing X to stop the “join up” box it reprompts which is tiresome and makes it unviewable....and I would like to watch if ‘twere possible.
Thanks for any thoughts
HB


You may be able to see the photos in "Morgan LIVE" in the News section of the Morgan Motor Co website.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/03/20 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by HeadlessBlue
If we don’t do FaceAche (nor Twitbook or InstaTik) does this mean we can’t watch the launch? Genuine question coz I don’t know nuttin’ about this kinda stuff. I cut and pasted that link which takes me to the Morgan one but every 5 seconds after pressing X to stop the “join up” box it reprompts which is tiresome and makes it unviewable....and I would like to watch if ‘twere possible.
Thanks for any thoughts
HB


Apparently they'll be showing it on YouTube. Their channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/user/morganmotorcompany
Posted By: pete757

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/03/20 09:33 AM

From that video. it looks like a 'Plus 4' like and also smooth... and VERY fast! smile
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/03/20 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by pete757
From that video. it looks like a 'Plus 4' like and also smooth... and VERY fast! smile


You do realise the video IS running in fast forward!!! laugh2
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/03/20 04:02 PM

Thanks Tim n Phil
V much appreciated.
Does anyone know the time of the launch (think it was meant to be on Tuesday?) or is it something that is likely just to be shown on a rolling repeat basis-am in a conference literally all day so will be secretly refreshing that you tube link all day otherwise (or at least during coffee breaks etc)!
Ps will welcome the distraction tbh....
Pps I really need to get a life don’t I!!!!!
HB
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/03/20 04:14 PM

Or retire to avoid those problems
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/03/20 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by John V6
Or retire to avoid those problems


+1 Thoroughly recommended as a solution!
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/03/20 04:20 PM

Aside from age restrictions, I don’t think Lady HB would approve....or allow it (between you and I of course...)🤣😩
HB
Posted By: P Dron

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/03/20 08:50 PM

In one of today's video clips, that looks like the Mazda 6-speed gear lever...
Posted By: RobCol

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/03/20 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Richard Wood
Seems quick enough.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9KRftUH7Nb/

Being driven back from Geneva apparently.


Why?.................Surely there must be other CX Plus4's at Malvern they could use for the launch not just the one that was sent to Geneva!
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/03/20 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by RobCol
Originally Posted by Richard Wood
Seems quick enough.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9KRftUH7Nb/

Being driven back from Geneva apparently.


Why?.................Surely there must be other CX Plus4's at Malvern they could use for the launch not just the one that was sent to Geneva!

Good point - maybe they are trying to keep the Geneva "buzz" alive by posting teasers ?
Posted By: RobCol

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 06:14 AM


I guess it would have to come back anyway and someone volunteered to drive it back. At least someone has had some fun!
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by HeadlessBlue

Does anyone know the time of the launch (think it was meant to be on Tuesday?)


From Facebook:

Originally Posted by MMC

Details and pictures of the new model will be live on our website and social channels in the morning, with a launch from Malvern shared around midday on our YouTube channel.
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 07:58 AM

When the company has a Web site why is it that there is no mention of this on their Web site? The news section has not been kept up to date and Morgan Live has nothing but a general repeating video a few seconds long.

I have no interest in joining any of the sochul channels for instant self gratification. I spend enough time on TM without adding some other invasion of privacy.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by MDS61

That is where I feel my Roadster is " I have put a dateless plate on it and it has 10K on it now (it is 2004)" - 99.5% of people have no idea how old it is, most think it is 1970's and has had a respray/restoration!!!

I do think people will be drawn to the CX Morgan - as it looks the same as most Morgan's but has modern underpinning's? That IS the attraction?



I think that was demonstrated by the Aero based Plus 8 being probably the most successful Aero based car for volume of sales. (May have helped that it was also best value)
Posted By: P Dron

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Gambalunga
When the company has a Web site why is it that there is no mention of this on their Web site? The news section has not been kept up to date and Morgan Live has nothing but a general repeating video a few seconds long.

I have no interest in joining any of the sochul channels for instant self gratification. I spend enough time on TM without adding some other invasion of privacy.


As Tim suggests, it will be on Morgan's YouTube channel:


https://www.youtube.com/user/morganmotorcompany
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Gambalunga
When the company has a Web site why is it that there is no mention of this on their Web site? The news section has not been kept up to date and Morgan Live has nothing but a general repeating video a few seconds long.

I have no interest in joining any of the sochul channels for instant self gratification. I spend enough time on TM without adding some other invasion of privacy.


Web sites are more effort to update than social media. Like it or not, the world is moving in the direction of more dynamic platforms than static websites.

I imagine that there were old crusties in the 1930s grumbling at why they were supposed to listen to the Home Service on the wireless rather than being able to read it in that morning's edition of the Times.
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by RobCol
Originally Posted by Richard Wood
Seems quick enough.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9KRftUH7Nb/

Being driven back from Geneva apparently.


Why?.................Surely there must be other CX Plus4's at Malvern they could use for the launch not just the one that was sent to Geneva!


Why build lots of pre production cars though. I imagine all effort has been put into completing one fully working and tested prototype. A bare car for show as per +6 launch maybe, and a couple more in different colour/trim combo's which look complete for show.

Jon Wells the lucky man at the wheel in speeded up video clip. I imagine the sudden change of plan forced upon them has left no time to update website yet hence the immediacy of social media. All to be revealed tomorrow apparently.
Posted By: pete757

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by MDS61
Originally Posted by pete757
From that video. it looks like a 'Plus 4' like and also smooth... and VERY fast! smile


You do realise the video IS running in fast forward!!! laugh2


Really!! laugh2
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by Gambalunga
When the company has a Web site why is it that there is no mention of this on their Web site? The news section has not been kept up to date and Morgan Live has nothing but a general repeating video a few seconds long.

I have no interest in joining any of the sochul channels for instant self gratification. I spend enough time on TM without adding some other invasion of privacy.


Web sites are more effort to update than social media. Like it or not, the world is moving in the direction of more dynamic platforms than static websites.

I imagine that there were old crusties in the 1930s grumbling at why they were supposed to listen to the Home Service on the wireless rather than being able to read it in that morning's edition of the Times.

I don't agree that they have to use mass social media that wants to skim all our data, contacts, etc., and dump unwanted advertising on us. There are alternatives that provide sites or pages similar to social media that could also provide push notifications. They don't even have to invent something. True, it would have to be administered but then so do mainstream social media sites. In effect it would take little effort to create their own interactive private Morgan based page(s) and any advertising banners etc would be specifically Morgan and other than that not targeted.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 12:54 PM

I would have thought it was down to "going where the prospective customer is".

We already own them in most cases and so will follow our own leads and community.
The goal of marketing is to reach new and as yet unplundered customers.
So you want maximum consideration and access for your staff workload.
Sadly sochul medier is the future.
I agree re the account skimming, exploitation and in some cases quite ruthless use of our identities but if you ask a 20 year old about it they consider it quid pro quo in most cases.

They also trust Chrome, Alexa and all sorts of other stuff. I don't even trust my bank.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gambalunga

I don't agree that they have to use mass social media that wants to skim all our data, contacts, etc., and dump unwanted advertising on us.


They don't have to, but they want to. The number of people worried about having their preferences skimmed so they can be sent targeted advertising rather than generic ads is tiny compared to the number of people who like the benefits that social media brings.

You're going to get exposed to advertising anyway, so it may as well be targeted. As for getting your data, social media can only get what you give it. It's not compulsory to provide accurate or even truthful information when you create an account. Personally it bothers me not one jot that I get to see targeted adverts. I just scrolled through my Facebook feed. Out of the first 40 posts from friends and groups I participate in, I saw 4 adverts: for 3D Printers, Vintage Fonts, Beard Grooming kits, and BMW i3. Seems a lot more preferable to see these rather than ads for soap operas, makeup, cheap holidays, and computer games.

Choosing not to participate in social media is an entirely valid position to take but it comes at a cost, and as the number of people who do use it grows and grows, that cost becomes more and more evident - that of finding it more and more difficult to be involved in current events.
Posted By: Paul F

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 03:48 PM

Out of curiosity, which Beard Grooming Kit did you buy Tim?
Not that I need one.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Paul F
Out of curiosity, which Beard Grooming Kit did you buy Tim?
Not that I need one.


laugh2

I didn't, Paul. Although I do confess to an occasional application of beard conditioner in an apparently futile attempt to keep my ever-lengthening monstrosity under control, I haven't as yet succumbed to the notion of special combs and such.
Posted By: Stringers Best Mate

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by Paul F
Out of curiosity, which Beard Grooming Kit did you buy Tim?
Not that I need one.


laugh2

I didn't, Paul. Although I do confess to an occasional application of beard conditioner in an apparently futile attempt to keep my ever-lengthening monstrosity under control, I haven't as yet succumbed to the notion of special combs and such.


Yet..


somestick
Posted By: twotribes

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/03/20 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich


You're going to get exposed to advertising anyway, so it may as well be targeted.


Exactly! - though I do regret buying a bulk supply of adult incontinence nappies for my Father in Law using my Amazon account...
Posted By: bcoupe

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 01:47 AM

Kinda upset road and track releases the info before Morgan does... frown

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/a31190820/2021-morgan-plus-four-specs-hp-price-info-pictures/
Posted By: PeterG

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 04:38 AM

From MMC website New Plus 4


Looking at the price list no Hard top listed but and I quote "Luggage Rack - Five-Wheel Vehicle with Side Screen Stowage" that should please quite a few people.
Posted By: HJP

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 07:13 AM

Well , my first impressions are that it looks really good . I like the more trad style wing profile plus the fact that they haven't gone for stupidly low profile tyres .
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:18 AM

Looks superb

I’m seeing it in the flesh tomorrow
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Richard Wood, Feb 27
Yes and just heard the Geneva show is definitely going ahead despite Corona Virus scare.

The 2016 onwards B48 190kW/255hp version sounds right to me, maintaining a reasonable power gap with the plus 6. Ironically this unit is also used in the 2 litre version of the Toyota Supra as is the 6 cylinder B58 used in the plus 6..


Well I was half right blush

ETA: Anyone noticed the big difference in torque @ rpm figures between manual and auto versions?

Interesting also the auto version is lighter, quicker, cleaner and marginally more economical.
Posted By: Kevcaster

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:41 AM

Here it is
https://youtu.be/Gub7iAdViQ0
Posted By: titus

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:41 AM

From my own preferences, here are my plus points from what I can see.
Narrow wings and spare wheel(never liked flat vented tail)
BMW 255bhp engine and manual gearbox is a cracker. Had the 190 version in a 2 series so 255 in a Morgan will be a cracker.
Wood dash and more trad interior.
Price. Okay the standard 63k may need a lot of extras on the +4 but I configured a +6 on standard body, interior and hood colours and kept extras to 1k. Considering the +6 is 80k that is pretty good. I must admit I was expecting it to be closer to 70. Considering the prices for new trads in dealers that is good. Back to long waiting lists?
Good old Morgan.
Posted By: IvorMog

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:42 AM

I think it looks just right. The designers have done a great job.

Modern underneath and Classic Trad on the outside. Well done MMC.

Performance looks spot on (why would you need a Plus 6).

Price is a fraction high but if there is an entry level car in the Low 50's it will be fine.

Now all we need is a stock market recovery. love
Posted By: waikiore

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:43 AM

The MMC website pics seem to show two slightly different front guard profiles, after finally seeing a plus six in the metal this spec appeals more...
Posted By: Fat Wolfie

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:45 AM

Having downloaded the price list and specs, it certainly looks a nice car, looks narrower than the Plus 6

But boy is it expensive! Manual gearbox and specced as near to my Plus 4 as it could be came out to £72,000! And to be honest I’d have wanted to add some more bits too, so I reckon you’re looking at mid £70k to get a really nice spec.

Be very interesting to have a drive of one though, to see how the new chassis copes with 255 BHP.
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:53 AM

I am on the one side tempted but on the other it has similar power to my Roadster. A test drive may help or be dangerous. Time will tell.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:53 AM

Wowser. Everything I like about the Plus 6 with everything I don't like replaced with stuff I do like. The price point is very appealing too. Well done MMC!
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:54 AM

Agreed Tim. It is very tempting in the photos.
Posted By: KEVFITZ

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 09:18 AM

Like it a lot !!!!

All black manual with standard alloy wheels comes in at £65 grand...good price point .


Well done MMC...we still love you !!!
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 09:23 AM

0-62 mph in 4.8 secs is fast for any 4cyl , and there's a manual gearbox , wow thats more like it ! woohoo
And the manual is cheaper !
Posted By: waikiore

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 09:24 AM

The you tube clip shows an attractive front guard -great, though I am not sure about more carrying capacity the plus six has about a third the luggage room of my old trad, though if you have the legs of a giraffe it's the Morgan for you. Always wondered why Alfas seemed to fit me, apparently I have that shape despite having no Italian heritage (that I know of)
This car has the makings of the winner that Mr Morris probably promised the new owners , all power to them I hope it sells well and brings new owners to the fold.
Posted By: 1560

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 09:32 AM

They did a great job in making it look like a Trad
and the specs make me wonder how much better it will ride than the monstrous Plus Six
congratulations to the team at Malvern
Posted By: Jens

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 09:52 AM

As a die-hard trad lover I must say it looks much better than expected. Good they don`t use the clunky Plus Six mudguards and resist to mount low-profile wheels. The steering wheel is realy ugly.

The bonned lowers too much towards the front.
[Linked Image]

The old +4 lines:
[Linked Image]


But that is complaining at a high level. Put a Motolita in it and its a good looking car.
Posted By: Sib

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 10:01 AM

I`m starting to think these cars need switchable traction control and ABS as standard. I would be a lot happier with it on in the wet and off in the dry and when has not having ABS ever been a clever idea these days ?
I come from fast bikes and that world has embraced the fact that not everyone is Valentino Rossi for years now and the tech is amazingly advanced and it really does work .
Turn it off if you want to be a hero but keep it on for everyone else especially those new to the brand who are used to modern sports cars. it will allow most us of to explore the limits of the new chassis much more safely.

ugly steering wheel apart I think its spot on otherwise..
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 10:08 AM

Another vid - good shots of interior and exterior when parked after about 4 mins of driving....

Posted By: Cat302

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 10:26 AM

Any one done a Louvre count? coffee
Posted By: Fat Wolfie

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 10:59 AM

I was wondering why I seemed to be the only one thinking it was very expensive compared to the outgoing model.

Then I saw on FaceAche that it was designed to be more equivalent to the outgoing Roadster despite being called Plus Four...suddenly the price makes much more sense...

I would, like others, like to see a lower powered version sat nearer to the outgoing Plus 4 price, I think that would sell really well. Or, controversially, an electric version with a range of 200 to 250 miles, and recharge rate of 150 KWPH or more.
Posted By: DaveW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 11:28 AM

It's a masterpiece of design to look like that.

It should sell well to the Roadster demographic, and should be nimble with just four at the front.

Just now I wouldn't trade two trads I can mess with for one I can't but of course I'm a potential buyer.
Posted By: tommog

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 11:44 AM

I was very sceptical about the new car, but I also have to say, that this car looks great on the first pics, I saw. They did a really great job. I like it much more than the six.
But on the other side it became really expensive in my view. Even if it is unfair to compare it to the old +4, the price is going up from about € 60´ to € 85´ to 90´ in Germany,
I will have a look on the car in the near future and I am definitely a potential buyer.
Posted By: Stringers Best Mate

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 12:23 PM

I think Morgan have a runaway success on their hands there.

Well done, MMC..!
Posted By: Paul F

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 12:27 PM

Just to put some context into the pricing.

Honda have announced the latest version of the Jazz today - starting price £18.5k - now that is expensive.
When my 4/4 was new, it cost 3 x Honda Jazz. The new Plus Four costs 3.4 x Honda Jazz - making the Plus Four a bargain.

Will explain this to swmbo when she returns. Anyone prepared to give odds on the man maths holding up?
Posted By: DaveW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 12:28 PM

Not a chance, but start softening her up now.
Posted By: Fat Wolfie

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 12:38 PM

Man maths at its best laugh2
Posted By: rid967

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 12:41 PM

Just had a good look at all the photos. It looks very appealing and, dare I say, not much different to the outgoing model. This is a huge credit to MMC as it will make the car more enticing to us “Traditionalists”. The wire wheels as standard are a big factor in maintaining this link to the old.
However, I just hope that the handbrake works! When I owned (briefly for just 3 weeks, before handing it back) my ARP4 the central handbrake just did not hold the car on any slope more than about 5 degrees. Owners started taking a block of wood around with them just to chock a wheel when parked up. It (the block of wood) wasn’t even an optional extra!
Posted By: Robbie

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 12:41 PM

WHERE DOES THE RADIO GO??
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by rid967
.....The wire wheels as standard are a big factor in maintaining this link to the old.
......


Silver wire wheels cost £1194.

Alloys are the standard wheels.
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Paul F
Just to put some context into the pricing.

Honda have announced the latest version of the Jazz today - starting price £18.5k - now that is expensive.
When my 4/4 was new, it cost 3 x Honda Jazz. The new Plus Four costs 3.4 x Honda Jazz - making the Plus Four a bargain.

Will explain this to swmbo when she returns. Anyone prepared to give odds on the man maths holding up?



My calculations work out to 100% in favour !
party
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Fat Wolfie
Or, controversially, an electric version with a range of 200 to 250 miles, and recharge rate of 150 KWPH or more.


Let's hope so, I'd flippin' love one.
Posted By: pandy

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Paul F
Just to put some context into the pricing.

Honda have announced the latest version of the Jazz today - starting price £18.5k - now that is expensive.
When my 4/4 was new, it cost 3 x Honda Jazz. The new Plus Four costs 3.4 x Honda Jazz - making the Plus Four a bargain.

Will explain this to swmbo when she returns. Anyone prepared to give odds on the man maths holding up?


Top man-maths.

I reckon you need to get onto the Honda Jazz configurator and spec one up to a price that is 1/3 that of the Mog, and show that to swmbo

That way, she can see that the price differential is identical.
Posted By: Clipper

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 02:30 PM

Looks better with wire wheels and can't do with those huge ugly rear blanking plugs so spare wheel + Luggage rack needed.

Will the side windows fit behind the seats as they do in the present Plus 4 I wonder? - Not a fan of putting them in the luggage rack.
Posted By: Clipper

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 02:32 PM

Live now at Geneva

https://www.gimsvirtualpressday.ch/pressday
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 02:39 PM

It does look right as a car , as said an electric version would be very interesting.
Overall I think MMC have done a great job.
Posted By: Stewart S

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 02:46 PM

Maybe the future electric Mog will be called the 4/4

4 wheels, range 4 miles!
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 02:52 PM

Or maybe 4 phase which would be a new one.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 03:09 PM

It looks everything one would want, I just need to drive one, but my feeling is that it will be super.
Interesting that they had to dial back the torque for the manual box.
Well done MMC, now we just need to wait for the road test impressions!
Posted By: twotribes

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Jens
As a die-hard trad lover I must say it looks much better than expected. Good they don`t use the clunky Plus Six mudguards and resist to mount low-profile wheels. The steering wheel is realy ugly.

The bonned lowers too much towards the front.
[Linked Image]

The old +4 lines:
[Linked Image]


But that is complaining at a high level. Put a Motolita in it and its a good looking car.



Thanks - that's a helpful comparison.

It's also a little unfair as the 'real' trad pictured has the 9-stud hood which always flatters the silhouette of the car when stowed whereas the easy-up looks awkward.

At first glance, I don't mind the more obvious nose-down attitude of the CX car, it makes it look purposeful. The fact that the doors are longer and the screen appears a tad taller are all good selling points for the swmbo
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 03:50 PM

The green car would appear to be an earlier short door model so not necessarily a direct comparison in present day terms.
Posted By: PeterG

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 05:25 PM

New Plus Four Configurator

Happy spec'ing
Posted By: Jays ex Nero

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 05:36 PM

Congratulations Morgan....it looks a worthy successor to the Plus4. So much more balanced style and proportions wise than the Plus Six which I think looks chunky and awkward....funny how the Aero Plus 8 carried it off for some reason. And none of those awful modern looking vents that the Plus Six has.

Price wise the basic car in manual, standard paint and leather and those rather nice alloys hits the spot in my view, all I’d want extra is a walnut dash and centre tunnel and driving lights although I baulk at the price of the latter. Funny how a tonneau is not listed.

Much that I like the car and admire Morgan for building it, I’m not sure I’d ever have one though. I came into Morgan wanting a modern and more reliable equivalent of a classic car and I think I’d end up thinking that I was driving a pastiche of a traditional Morgan and certainly not a classic car...my 4/4 and 3.0 Roadster always got me into classic events. Put a modern alloy body with hints of Morgan styling on that chassis and drivetrain together with Morgan trimming skills and I’d certainly be interested.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by PeterG


A whisker under £70k for mine. Oh bugger. I only won £50 on the Premium Bonds this month, so a bit of a gap. Ah well, there's always next month.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 05:39 PM

John, I am sure something of this kind will follow.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by PeterG


A whisker under £70k for mine. Oh bugger. I only won £50 on the Premium Bonds this month, so a bit of a gap. Ah well, there's always next month.


MMC has just announced that the 28 most common posters on TM will be gifted with a new Plus Four in their personal equipment. One moment please, I must find the link again. shades
Posted By: DaveW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 05:50 PM

There are some common people on TM for sure grin2
Posted By: PeterG

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by PeterG


A whisker under £70k for mine. Oh bugger. I only won £50 on the Premium Bonds this month, so a bit of a gap. Ah well, there's always next month.


I prefer the Plus SIx hide
Posted By: Clipper

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 06:10 PM

Telegraph article

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Peter J

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 06:24 PM

Built to my specification a shade under £78k.
Hmm.
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Jon G4LJW
Originally Posted by rid967
.....The wire wheels as standard are a big factor in maintaining this link to the old.
......


Silver wire wheels cost £1194.

Alloys are the standard wheels.


Wow I would get the black ones - stripped and re-painted/powder coated for half of that?
Posted By: nick w

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 06:32 PM

I think it looks great. Also has more than enough performance for the road.
Great move by the factory.
Nick
Posted By: Dada

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 06:35 PM

I need to be use to some small difference like:
50 % of the bonnet lateral louvres are missing or they are too much moved to the front
The rear wing have an unusual curve (front of the wheel is smaller than above the wheel)
There are two strange symmetric but assymetric 3rd stop light instead of the usual central one

Except this I am totally in love love exting
From now twice a week a candle on the Euromillion lotto chapelle notworthy

A Stingray grey with tan or Ferrari blue sweater with tan .... And you, what will be your favourite combination ?
Posted By: RBW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 06:39 PM

Just been playing with the configurator £70k to my spec, yet they still want to charge £600 for carpets and £55 for an interior mirror?

I would be interested to know the dimensions compared to the old P4. Lovely car, bet it's a hoot to drive, just too rich for me.
Posted By: Malcolm Hoar

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 06:52 PM

A tad over £68k for mine tried to keep the costs down rofl
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 06:55 PM

Just looked up the 2020 Toyota Supra 2.0L and the engine spec is identical to the new PlusFour (no surprises there)..Morgan blurb below.

However, the Morgan weighs (as far as can I see) around 400kg's lighter than the Toyota...yet the 0-60mph is identical? Is this to NOT pi** off Toyota I wonder.....


Powertrain, Performance & Emissions

Morgan has built on its long-standing relationship with BMW, choosing to use its 2.0-litre TwinPower Turbo engine. It marks the first time a four-cylinder turbocharged engine has featured in a Morgan car, and produces 255 bhp (190 kW) along with, in the automatic variant, 295 lb ft (400Nm) of torque. In combination with a dry weight of just 1009 kg, it provides effortless performance: 0-62 mph (0-100 kph) takes just 4.8 seconds; top speed is 149 mph (240 kph). The manual variant develops 258 lb ft (350 Nm) of torque, which combined with a dry weight of 1013 kg, results in a 0-62 mph (100 kph) time of 5.2 seconds. Power and top speed match the automatic model.

While headline power and torque figures remain consistent with BMW applications, the engine mapping has been specifically calibrated to allow optimum driveability and response in the Plus Four. As with the Morgan Plus Six, a sport plus mode is available, engaged using a button on the centre column. It sharpens the throttle response, releasing a whole new dynamic character from the car. Overall, engine output is comparable with the outgoing, steel-chassis Morgan Roadster, however, real-world performance and dynamics have been taken to a completely new level.

The all-new Morgan Plus Four also marks the introduction of a manual gearbox for the first time in a CX-Generation platform Morgan. The six-speed gearbox has been optimised to provide a perfectly weighted movement which, combined with its carefully chosen ratios, delivers an engaging driving experience. The gearbox pairs beautifully with the 2.0-litre BMW TwinPower Turbo engine and offers further choice to the customer.
Posted By: P Dron

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 07:00 PM

Does anyone know who is the manual gearbox supplier? BMW, Mazda or Toyota?
Posted By: PH251

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 07:08 PM

BMW
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 07:26 PM


Wonderful job MMC and you have surprised a lot of people with this car clap.

It looks to be a lovely chunky footprint akin to my traditional Plus 8 so perfect thumbs.
Posted By: howard

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 07:44 PM

£71059 for me. Looks good. Like the idea of the new chassis but less keen on the turbo engine and electronics. My choice would be the modern chassis and the Duratec engine whose greasy bits I would feel more comfortable with.

I do wish MMC every success with the new car. I do wonder if some potential buyers will see it as a pastiche of an old car.
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 07:46 PM

75k. I just wonder how long we will be allowed to drive ICE cars like this. I will need a test drive first but it is nice to dream
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by howard
£71059 for me. Looks good. Like the idea of the new chassis but less keen on the turbo engine and electronics. My choice would be the modern chassis and the Duratec engine whose greasy bits I would feel more comfortable with.

I do wish MMC every success with the new car. I do wonder if some potential buyers will see it as a pastiche of an old car.


Spoken by an old highly experienced Morgan enthusiast😀

But maybe this car really is your first Morgan, Howard. You wouldn't regret it, I think.
Posted By: rid967

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:05 PM

If I were to get one.......that’s a BIG “if”.......I would certainly want to keep the costs down, as one could get a very nice car for £70k (including second hand, but nearly new cars).
However, does anyone know whether an alternative steering wheel has yet been made available for the Plus 6? I guess if there is an alternative, more “sporting” type (like Motolita), then it would help keep the classic, traditional look.
It’s reassuring that the only thing I am wanting to change is the steering wheel, which just endorses just how much Morgan have got it right this time.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:10 PM

If this very steering wheel would include the function of an airbag I would keep it. BTW does the PlusSix have Anti lock system? The PlusFour was mentioned to have it.
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:19 PM

I really really truly can’t wait to take a test drive
They have done a proper job with this in my view.
Can’t get configurator to work on my phone so £66k as far as Lady HB is concerned 😇
Ok £66,500 then....
HB
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Stringers Best Mate
I think Morgan have a runaway success on their hands there.

Well done, MMC..!


SBM, Good to see you've got the Morgan love back......
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by HeadlessBlue
I really really truly can’t wait to take a test drive
They have done a proper job with this in my view.
Can’t get configurator to work on my phone so £66k as far as Lady HB is concerned 😇
Ok £66,500 then....
HB


Don't bother with the dotcom config thing, Allon Whites have a pukka price list uploaded to their site already

If I spec a poverty one it just limbos under 70k, but that's missing a lot of nice bits on my Roadster & I'd have to swop out the frankly uncomfortable seats as they look same as the P6 ones

But, it looks a cracking car, better proportioned with sensible power & I genuinely wish MMC success with the new PlusFour thumbs
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 09:41 PM

Looks like (off top of head adding and rounding up having printed off the price list) approx £76k. Or £74k if I drop sports exhaust. Need to hear what either option sounds like in the flesh on the new version. Have sports exhaust currently but not a deal breaker.
Will need to get an idea of what Florence might be worth once market settles down.
Serious man maths needed and flowers n stuff....😇
#sighwishfullyyetdesperately
HB
Ps will this section heading need to drop “Plus Six” from it’s title now there’s another CX...?
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Heinz
If this very steering wheel would include the function of an airbag I would keep it. BTW does the PlusSix have Anti lock system? The PlusFour was mentioned to have it.



Heinz , I'm not sure wether either car has ABS ! scared
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by HeadlessBlue
Looks like (off top of head adding and rounding up having printed off the price list) approx £76k. Or £74k if I drop sports exhaust. Need to hear what either option sounds like in the flesh on the new version. Have sports exhaust currently but not a deal breaker.
Will need to get an idea of what Florence might be worth once market settles down.
Serious man maths needed and flowers n stuff....😇
#sighwishfullyyetdesperately
HB
Ps will this section heading need to drop “Plus Six” from it’s title now there’s another CX...?


Don't forget that all the nice partners of Morgan will introduce aftermarket bits as well. This would allow you to remain below a certain price on purchase then add some carefully selected aftermarket bits later. A Morgan is not just for Christmas.
Posted By: Paul F

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 09:55 PM

Mrs F has just returned home having been working the streets to raise her contribution to the Plus Four fund.
£100.50.
I asked her which of the miserable wotsits gave her the 50p.
She replied “They all did”

hide
Posted By: P Dron

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Paul F
Mrs F has just returned home having been working the streets to raise her contribution to the Plus Four fund.
£100.50.
I asked her which of the miserable wotsits gave her the 50p.
She replied “They all did”

hide


Well, you'll be there by this time 2022. If you survive...
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by madmax
Originally Posted by Heinz
If this very steering wheel would include the function of an airbag I would keep it. BTW does the PlusSix have Anti lock system? The PlusFour was mentioned to have it.



Heinz , I'm not sure wether either car has ABS ! scared

madmax, according to the Telegraph article, page 3, posted by Clipper on the previous page of this thread, ABS is included in the PlusFour.
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/03/20 11:22 PM

Good then we can play the safety card with head office
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by John V6
Good then we can play the safety card with head office



Just remember it is an airbag not a windbag. hide
Posted By: sospan

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 10:57 AM

Looks like MMC have a cracker there.
If not overloading it with bling then it does fall towards man maths territory.
The bottom line would be how it drives. Manual with good mid range torque to be at least comparable ( within a similarfeel ) to my trad Plus8. The figures look ok on paper.
I would be happy for a basic spec with a side screen capable luggage rack, black alloys, matte wood dash(a locking glovebox though), heated seats to keep swmbo smiling). An anchor point for the dog harness.
A sympathetic salesman could add a couple of items on as a sweetener too laugh2
So.....off toa car configurator to do some sums.
Don’t tell swmbo
Mind you she did spot the launch details before me and perused the info. in a chirpymood. joy
Posted By: jjgreenwood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 11:14 AM

Think I might deposit on one of these today.

Will probably go for the following with a sports exhaust teln1yyn
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 11:17 AM

Sospan,
I too would like a locking glove box lid. My run on the configurator was similar though with 5 alloys, 2 tone paint.
It is fun to dream
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Robbie
WHERE DOES THE RADIO GO??



Good question - the price list has an option for Bluetooth speakers at £354+VAT.
Posted By: P Dron

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 12:11 PM

I have tried to imagine the point of a radio in a Morgan. Cannot get it.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 12:13 PM

Well if you live in the south of England you can always use it to liven up the traffic jams and motorway closures.
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by P Dron
I have tried to imagine the point of a radio in a Morgan. Cannot get it.

At anything under 100 km/h in our Plus 4 you can hear it perfectly. Nice to have music when you are touring.
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Gambalunga

At anything under 100 km/h in our Plus 4 you can hear it perfectly. Nice to have music when you are touring.


Is there much difference with roof up or down?
Posted By: P Dron

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 12:35 PM

I don't do touring.
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 01:16 PM

I noticed a nice comment at the bottom of the Autocar article -

"One of the oldest new cars is almost one of the best looking new car of 2020"




grin2
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by jjgreenwood
Think I might deposit on one of these today.

Will probably go for the following with a sports exhaust teln1yyn





roses
Posted By: rid967

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Gambalunga
Originally Posted by P Dron
I have tried to imagine the point of a radio in a Morgan. Cannot get it.

At anything under 100 km/h in our Plus 4 you can hear it perfectly. Nice to have music when you are touring.


Radio 2 whilst on the move is an absolute must for Mrs rid967. At the end of the day a specialist car radio company can fit one and it would be much better than any factory option.
Posted By: Jays ex Nero

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 03:17 PM

Interesting that Andrew English in his Telegraph article states there is 104mm less in the central body. The car does look better proportioned compared to the Plus Six and I wonder if this is down to a narrower tub as well as wings? If so I’d be intrigued to know if the CX chassis is altered.
Posted By: Chilliblu

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 04:44 PM

Just been on the configurator for the new Plus Four. I did not add much in the way of extras but soon had the price to £75k. That is a lot of money for this car. Yes it may be more modern etc. but for £75,000 I'm not sure that's where my pension pot will be going.
Posted By: titus

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Jon G4LJW
Originally Posted by Robbie
WHERE DOES THE RADIO GO??



Good question - the price list has an option for Bluetooth speakers at £354+VAT.


Top Gear mags announcing the +4, sorry Plusfour or funny trousers, mentioned the radio being extra and put it in a nutshell.
"You don't buy a Morgan to connect to the modern world, you buy it to escape from it."
We can all equate with that.
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 06:06 PM

I do think it is "mean" of Morgan NOT to fit a radio...that is penny pinching....on a £62K car.

Not on really? redcard
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Chilliblu
Just been on the configurator for the new Plus Four. I did not add much in the way of extras but soon had the price to £75k. That is a lot of money for this car. Yes it may be more modern etc. but for £75,000 I'm not sure that's where my pension pot will be going.



It is a hell of a lot of money , agreed . I would probably go for a Supersport with 5LL suspension and softer front spring set up . And they are rare !

Ask Kev , he knows !
Posted By: DaveW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 06:28 PM

Don't let Kev hear that!!! Shhhh!
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 06:42 PM

https://www.pistonheads.com/classif...us-four-super-sport-no-55-of-60/10303527

Here's one , like hens teeth , £45k is a lot less than £75 , ok not the same but a lovely Mog to own !
Posted By: JB62

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 06:43 PM

I really like the look of the car and wish Morgan all the very best in selling a shed-load of them to keep the brand that we all love - irrespective of our current steeds- very much alive.
Posted By: waikiore

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 07:22 PM

This would appear to be the car to hit the production numbers required, the big question is why would anyone buy a plus six?
With all the talk of rear parcel shelf and gear stowage does the plus four have more than the plus six ?As the plus six has about 20% of my old trads room behind the seats?
Posted By: Jens

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 07:27 PM

The cheapest Morgan fourwheeler today, the PlusFour is aproximately twice expensive as my 4/4 when I bought it. I was then an employed chimney-technican and I was able to save the money. Today this would be impossible. The CX-Morgan will change entry-level customers towards the much wealthier. A possible four/four will not change that.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 08:07 PM

I think it's a great looking car but I could never get used to that bib and number plate box they just look ugly to my eyes, both of these could be got around somehow I'm sure if I venture down that road.
Posted By: Fox Terrier

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 09:40 PM

Just seen it for the first time. Love it. Can't wait for the 185bhp 4/4 now.
Posted By: jjgreenwood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by Jens
The cheapest Morgan fourwheeler today, the PlusFour is aproximately twice expensive as my 4/4 when I bought it. I was then an employed chimney-technican and I was able to save the money. Today this would be impossible. The CX-Morgan will change entry-level customers towards the much wealthier. A possible four/four will not change that.


Yep in fact it costs the same as an F-Type or a Boxster so I guess morgan think it competes with those, makes an elise look cheap!!
Posted By: Clipper

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 10:13 PM

Interesting comments from Morgan owners who would like the new Plus 4 but might now be possibly priced out of the new car.

MMC will need to attract new buyers it seems.

My 2010 model was a nearly new, low mileage, fully loaded Plus 4 costing around £34k when I bought it so it’s been quite an inflationary decade.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 10:20 PM

I guess they will be offering the PCP deal to attract more customers into the fray that don't want to pay up front like us old boys do.
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 10:23 PM

What will happen to secondhand Plus4 - Plus8 Roadster prices - i wonder.....as "everyone" it seems trades these models for CX models?
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
I guess they will be offering the PCP deal to attract more customers into the fray that don't want to pay up front like us old boys do.


Good point - these days it's just a matter of whether you can afford the monthly payments. The full price is not such an issue really.
Posted By: Jays ex Nero

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by MDS61
What will happen to secondhand Plus4 - Plus8 Roadster prices - i wonder.....as "everyone" it seems trades these models for CX models?



Will they trade up to a CX though? I might be out of the loop a little now since selling my car 18 months ago but I suspect that many Morgan Trad owners whilst admiring the car will prefer to stay with a classic Morgan as that’s what attracted them to the marque. Also the cost of change is pretty substantial for many owners.

I suspect that MMC aren’t focussed on sakes to existing owners but want to attract new buyers from the sports car enthusiasts that usually drive the likes of Porsche, Jaguar etc and regularly change their cars for the next “best” thing.
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Jays ex Nero
.... stay with a classic Morgan as that’s what attracted them to the marque......

.....


For me, I was attracted by the "classic Morgan" shape and style, and the new cars look pretty much the same as the outgoing "Trad" models.
Posted By: Quicksilver

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/03/20 11:24 PM

Looks great as they have largely preserved the lines of the trad - so an improvement on the bloated Plus 6. Love the alloys and great that they have kept wires. Performance puts it in line with the current Roadster but with greater efficiency and fuel consumption ( not to mention less of the St Malvern’s dance from the CX chassis). Not keen on the interior but all in all a great car which should go some way to keeping traditionalists in love with Morgan. But the price - once you’ve given it a reasonable spec it’s going to approach 75k. Well done Morgan - but I must admit that I don’t feel the urge to trade in my Roadster.
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by Jays ex Nero
Originally Posted by MDS61
What will happen to secondhand Plus4 - Plus8 Roadster prices - i wonder.....as "everyone" it seems trades these models for CX models?



Will they trade up to a CX though? I might be out of the loop a little now since selling my car 18 months ago but I suspect that many Morgan Trad owners whilst admiring the car will prefer to stay with a classic Morgan as that’s what attracted them to the marque. Also the cost of change is pretty substantial for many owners.

I suspect that MMC aren’t focussed on sakes to existing owners but want to attract new buyers from the sports car enthusiasts that usually drive the likes of Porsche, Jaguar etc and regularly change their cars for the next “best” thing.



Not really sure wether Porsche/Jag etc are second cars Jays ? Those owners will keep their 'normal' Porsches and Jags etc and buy a new plusfour ? We hope ! thinking Its a big jump in cost from a trad plus 4 ?
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 10:23 AM

There is a good example of what will happen to Trad prices already in front of us ?

Has anyone tried to buy a Trad Plus 8 in recent times. The lack of them and a love of the model has supported the resale value quite well I think?

It should be the same for the Trad models in general I trust. There will be a demand for them because of the characteristics and alignment with the traditional Morgan values which should keep the market solid. If Morgan were to open a "recover" service a bit like Ferrari Classic (https://auto.ferrari.com/en_EN/sports-cars-models/past-models/) to offer rebuilds using the old tools and people this would allow it to run for years. It could be a good earner for the factory as well.

I think the same issue exists but is more troubling for the Aero range. If you can buy a CX PF or PS for 70-90k or an out of production Aero it becomes a different discussion. I am going to guess the CX handles better, or will once they have been through a few iterations. So it looks like the value added monster V8 soundtrack through dual sidepipes will be the determining factor...
Posted By: DaveW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Quicksilver
Looks great as they have largely preserved the lines of the trad - so an improvement on the bloated Plus 6. Love the alloys and great that they have kept wires. Performance puts it in line with the current Roadster but with greater efficiency and fuel consumption ( not to mention less of the St Malvern’s dance from the CX chassis). Not keen on the interior but all in all a great car which should go some way to keeping traditionalists in love with Morgan. But the price - once you’ve given it a reasonable spec it’s going to approach 75k. Well done Morgan - but I must admit that I don’t feel the urge to trade in my Roadster.


Agree with this. By using different wing profiles, Morgan have kept the model visual variation we had between the Aero Plus 8 and Roadster.

Give it a couple of years for the dust to settle. By then, the relative secondhand prices should be apparent.

It would be fantastic to spec a new Plus Four, but as others have said, my choices would shove it towards £75k. Four years ago, my Plus 4 was getting close to £50k, but a leap of £25k is a big one. So part exing either of mine will take thirty odd grand, unless I sold them both, and then how do I pass the time?
Posted By: Quicksilver

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 12:45 PM

I just did a basic spec from the website configurator and it came out at just a whisker below £70,000k. Of course there are other options that won't be listed on the configurator such as sports exhaust, luggage racks, etc that many of us consider essential - not to mention road tax and delivery. That will easily push the price towards 75k. Nice car, though.
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Quicksilver
I just did a basic spec from the website configurator and it came out at just a whisker below £70,000k. Of course there are other options that won't be listed on the configurator such as sports exhaust, luggage racks, etc that many of us consider essential - not to mention road tax and delivery. That will easily push the price towards 75k. Nice car, though.



Can you actually buy the new plusfour for the retail price and drive it ? thinking
Posted By: DaveW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 01:28 PM

Yes but only four standard colours, two interior colours, and four alloys.

Even red costs extra.
Posted By: Quicksilver

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by DaveW
Yes but only four standard colours, two interior colours, and four alloys.

Even red costs extra.


It gets to the price point where a buyer might start to think he may as well have the basic spec Plus 6. A marketing strategy, perhaps?
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by DaveW
...unless I sold them both, and then how do I pass the time?

Finish that railway? smile
Posted By: DaveW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Graham, G4FUJ
Originally Posted by DaveW
...unless I sold them both, and then how do I pass the time?

Finish that railway? smile


Very good point Graham...........
Posted By: KEVFITZ

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 05:04 PM

Get a girlfriend !!!!
Posted By: Rocksolid

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 05:50 PM

Having had a look at the car in the flesh now I can see it represents a real change from the current Plus 4 in terms of the driving experience and in a number of other important ways and will therefore be attractive to current owners who love the Morgan design values. Will it attract new customers to the Marqué ? I think it will but not in large numbers in the UK , the prize is the USA and I suspect the pricing is allowing dealers to make a better margin . The question of traditional Plus 4 values is a different matter , the balance between supply and demand in the UK is measured in tens not hundreds , I promise you that if 30 to 40 current Plus 4 owners order a new Plus Four at launch( not an improbable figure) then secondhand values will fall . Have a look at how many unsold Plus 4’s thé dealer network currently has , all of this is exerting downward pressure. It may well be a short term phenomenon so perhaps hang back a bit before placing that order?
Posted By: DaveW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 06:31 PM

The more likely shift will be from current 3.7 Roadster owners.

This group are already in the £50/£60k zone, and want that performance level.

Current trad Plus 4 owners were either not looking for Roadster performance, or not wanting to spend Roadster money. So I'm not convinced that many trad Plus 4 owners will make that change.
Posted By: rid967

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by DaveW
The more likely shift will be from current 3.7 Roadster owners.

This group are already in the £50/£60k zone, and want that performance level.

Current trad Plus 4 owners were either not looking for Roadster performance, or not wanting to spend Roadster money. So I'm not convinced that many trad Plus 4 owners will make that change.


I think you may well be right, Dave. I have a 3.7 Roadster which, with the factory fitted ECU upgrade gives c.300 bhp. The car didn’t need the extra power: it was a consequence of me wanting to get rid of the Rev hang, which it did.
However, this amount of power is probably too much for the trad chassis and suspension and requires a delicate and fully focussed mind when pushing the car on.
I traded my ARP4 in for the Roadster because the Cosworth just did not deliver enough low down torque and required me to keep the revs up above 3500/4000 to get it moving at a reasonable pace. The Roadster delivers torque in abundance but, realistically, a well tuned trad Plus 4 with 180 to 200 bhp is perhaps a more satisfying balance for the trad chassis.
So, I am really tempted by the new CX Plus Four. A modern chassis, 255 bhp, narrower body than the Plus 6 and brakes and suspension to match with a manual gearbox ticks all of my boxes.
A test drive will be high on my agenda once the demonstrators arrive at the dealers.
Morgan have delivered a winner here which will appeal to both older drivers like me as well as a new market from those much younger than me who seek something quite different from the norm but will be expecting a driving experience similar to a Z4 or Boxster.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by DaveW
Yes but only four standard colours, two interior colours, and four alloys.

Even red costs extra.


Not the worst vendor out there for that to be fair. MB have two colours as basic and then everything is extra!
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by rid967
Originally Posted by DaveW
The more likely shift will be from current 3.7 Roadster owners.

This group are already in the £50/£60k zone, and want that performance level.

Current trad Plus 4 owners were either not looking for Roadster performance, or not wanting to spend Roadster money. So I'm not convinced that many trad Plus 4 owners will make that change.


I think you may well be right, Dave. I have a 3.7 Roadster which, with the factory fitted ECU upgrade gives c.300 bhp. The car didn’t need the extra power: it was a consequence of me wanting to get rid of the Rev hang, which it did.
However, this amount of power is probably too much for the trad chassis and suspension and requires a delicate and fully focussed mind when pushing the car on.
I traded my ARP4 in for the Roadster because the Cosworth just did not deliver enough low down torque and required me to keep the revs up above 3500/4000 to get it moving at a reasonable pace. The Roadster delivers torque in abundance but, realistically, a well tuned trad Plus 4 with 180 to 200 bhp is perhaps a more satisfying balance for the trad chassis.
So, I am really tempted by the new CX Plus Four. A modern chassis, 255 bhp, narrower body than the Plus 6 and brakes and suspension to match with a manual gearbox ticks all of my boxes.
A test drive will be high on my agenda once the demonstrators arrive at the dealers.
Morgan have delivered a winner here which will appeal to both older drivers like me as well as a new market from those much younger than me who seek something quite different from the norm but will be expecting a driving experience similar to a Z4 or Boxster.



ARP4 followed by 3.7 , followed by new plusfour.......quite a line up of Mogs there ! Go for it ! thumbs
Posted By: Clipper

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 08:39 PM

How much would the new car cost specced up to the nines like this Williams P4

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classi...searchad=New&page=1&modal=photos
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 08:51 PM

If she finds a buyer, okay, it wouldn't be me. We have such overpriced offers in Germany too.
Here you can get a Plus4 for almost 90.000€. This is stupid.

https://morgan-deutschland.de/fahrzeugangebot/
Posted By: andymot

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 09:09 PM

I was wondering what would happen to values. I think if I were a dealer with stock of new or nearly new Roadsters I'd be just a little nervous. I note that Allon white have a few "new" plus 4 trads which are specified to keep the price down - unlike the Williams offerings which possibly look expensive at nearly £60K compared to the new model?

Talking of old models - did the gold painted chassis, final 20 special plus4s get built? Cannot find any listed for sale - perhaps they were snapped up, although I doubt it somehow in todays market.

I think the new PlusFour will be a big success for Morgan. It looks stunning to my eyes.

I'm off to buy a lottery ticket...…………….
Posted By: Stringers Best Mate

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 09:13 PM

Champagne Chassis for you, Andy..

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by andymot
I was wondering what would happen to values. I think if I were a dealer with stock of new or nearly new Roadsters I'd be just a little nervous. I note that Allon white have a few "new" plus 4 trads which are specified to keep the price down - unlike the Williams offerings which possibly look expensive at nearly £60K compared to the new model?

Talking of old models - did the gold painted chassis, final 20 special plus4s get built? Cannot find any listed for sale - perhaps they were snapped up, although I doubt it somehow in todays market.

I think the new PlusFour will be a big success for Morgan. It looks stunning to my eyes.

I'm off to buy a lottery ticket...…………….


The 89.900€ Plus 4 I posted the link is one of those last 20.
Posted By: M3W55

Re: New 4cylinder car - 05/03/20 09:25 PM

A couple of days ago, I was at a dealer where I saw a yellow M3W in rebuild. The owner is so keen on burgundy trim that he has had the chassis, mountings, and suspension coated to match!
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 06/03/20 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by DaveW
The more likely shift will be from current 3.7 Roadster owners.

This group are already in the £50/£60k zone, and want that performance level.

Current trad Plus 4 owners were either not looking for Roadster performance, or not wanting to spend Roadster money. So I'm not convinced that many trad Plus 4 owners will make that change.

I can see your reasoning Dave. The 3.7 even with 5 link rear has many design faults including way too wide gearbox ratio's, throttle lag, lack of low down torque, narrow footwells and over firm rear suspension. Having sorted the latter though together with a wide range of minor improvements elsewhere, the new Plus Four would have to offer a huge improvement in driving experience, comfort and handling to tempt me.
Having said that can't wait for a test drive

BTW having asked at the KH breakfast meet yesterday, it seems likely the new Plus Four doesn't have ABS despite the press comments. Even the Plus 6 only has it on the front wheels.

ETA: Having just engineered locking bonnet stays for my car, was dissapointed to see a Plus 6 with the same old fully detaching harpoon like OE bonnet stays of the outgoing trads. If MMC can't justify better on a pushing £100k car, can't imagine the Plus Four will be any different frown
Posted By: KEVFITZ

Re: New 4cylinder car - 06/03/20 09:28 AM

Richard..look on the bright side...at least there will still be some fettling required on the new Cx !!!!!
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 06/03/20 09:33 AM

Yep I will follow Dave's lead innocent
Posted By: Robbie

Re: New 4cylinder car - 06/03/20 11:40 AM

Nobody’s answered the question of where does the radio fit? — well??
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 06/03/20 12:53 PM

Robbie, I would think there is a good and ergonomic opportunity below the new air jets in the center console...if there is any space at the back.
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 06/03/20 01:14 PM

And you’ll need to fit an aerial somewhere too...
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 06/03/20 01:54 PM

I read it had blue tooth connectivity. I guess you pair you phone to it.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 06/03/20 02:26 PM

blue tooth is ok but in my view will not replace a real car radio.
Posted By: Clipper

Re: New 4cylinder car - 06/03/20 03:56 PM

In the Aero you just have an input socket for your phone, mp3 etc
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 06/03/20 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Clipper
In the Aero you just have an input socket for your phone, mp3 etc

Similar to the Plus 6 then which just has a flying lead. At least the Bluetooth option on the Plus Four is an improvement ..........once it connects innocent
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: New 4cylinder car - 06/03/20 11:00 PM

Hmm! Less luggage space than a trad? If so that virtually knocks it out as a touring car,
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 07/03/20 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Robbie
Nobody’s answered the question of where does the radio fit? — well??



I tried listening to Led Zepp on the way down to KH the other morning and despite switching the vol up several times it lost out completely to 4 lovely side pipes , never mind ! arr
Posted By: Sib

Re: New 4cylinder car - 08/03/20 06:15 PM

Looking at the YouTube video of the two guys bringing the show car back from Geneva , I notice the driver was using a phone or garmin as a navigator which he put above the steering column. As the head of design for MMC I would have hoped for a better solution . A lot of us do tour and the lack of cup holders and obvious gps location is a tad frustrating. I’ve solved it in a way that works for me but come on....
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 08/03/20 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by Gambalunga
Hmm! Less luggage space than a trad? If so that virtually knocks it out as a touring car,

Not sure why that would be so. The space behind the seats will be less than the Plus 6 given narrower cockpit but should have the same extra depth as shown here.

[Linked Image]

Also on a trad, at least mine, the space behind seat varies dependant on seat position. If the new Plus Four has greater leg room then seat may not to be at its rearmost stop releasing more space.
Posted By: Sib

Re: New 4cylinder car - 08/03/20 08:18 PM

Do the side screens fit flat behind the seats on the plus six or new plus four without having to move the seats right forward to get them to fit ? It’s a bit of a bugbear for me..
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 08/03/20 08:54 PM

I always used the sidescreen bags stowed in the luggage rack on my Roadster when removed. The new Plus Four offers such a luggage rack option as well.
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: New 4cylinder car - 09/03/20 08:18 AM

Goodbye to the fly off handbrake too, I see.
Posted By: titus

Re: New 4cylinder car - 09/03/20 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by DaveW
The more likely shift will be from current 3.7 Roadster owners.

This group are already in the £50/£60k zone, and want that performance level.

Current trad Plus 4 owners were either not looking for Roadster performance, or not wanting to spend Roadster money. So I'm not convinced that many trad Plus 4 owners will make that change.


Interesting point Dave. When I ordered my +4 4seater I drove the Roadster 4 seater at the factory. The extra cost was £7 K and, though I liked the performance, thought the lighter Duratec with alloys would handle better.

The difference in price between a newish Roadster and the new +4 would make me think.
Posted By: RobCol

Re: New 4cylinder car - 09/03/20 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by DaveW
The more likely shift will be from current 3.7 Roadster owners.

This group are already in the £50/£60k zone, and want that performance level.

Current trad Plus 4 owners were either not looking for Roadster performance, or not wanting to spend Roadster money. So I'm not convinced that many trad Plus 4 owners will make that change.


I agree with Dave.

I think Morgan are targeting a new customer and export market (or UK Roadster owner) with the Plus Four particularly with its Automatic and Air Con options and not Trad Plus 4 owners.

I also think that the Plus 6 is aimed at the export market.

If so both Morgans could be even rarer cars in the UK.
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 09/03/20 01:27 PM

I think you are right the Plusfour is basically the power of my Roadster with the same looks but a better chassis
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: New 4cylinder car - 09/03/20 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by John V6
but a better chassis


That's a TBC for me, let's wait a couple of years for the early adopters to do the stress testing & see if we get fatigue cracks like the Three Wheeler spend
Posted By: titus

Re: New 4cylinder car - 09/03/20 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by CooperMan
Originally Posted by John V6
but a better chassis


That's a TBC for me, let's wait a couple of years for the early adopters to do the stress testing & see if we get fatigue cracks like the Three Wheeler spend

Yes, I felt I was doing the testing on the early +4 4seater with hood and rear suspension being a particular 'highlight'.
However, which car company can you have a dialogue with the managing director at that time to put it right?.
I hope, and feel positive, that as the current head of the company has come through from the factory floor, he will focus more on factory, rather than customer, doing the testing.
Posted By: Sib

Re: New 4cylinder car - 09/03/20 04:22 PM

I’ve sat in the new plus four and even at 6’3 I had to pull the seat forward to get the position right. I reckon 6’6 people could comfortably drive this car. The luggage space seems less than the current model but the rear shelf is lower so that may be deceiving.
Plus points:
This will be a great car to drive and no doubt handling will be transformed compared to trad chassis
Fit and finish looks great even on the car quickly put together for the show.
Doors feel solid and interior feels more roomy
Seats are a massive improvement
Steering wheel has reach and rake adjustment
ABS will be good to have
It still looks like a Morgan and the proportions are spot on

Negatives:
Steering wheel and column are plastic/modern, not my personal cup of tea and the only thing apart from LED headlights that give this away as a modern car at a glance. If only moto lita could produce a wheel that works here.
Still no clever solution to store side screens other than rear rack
Nowhere dedicated to put a coffee or phone or nav and cubby hole has less pace than old one as there is a big internal bulge...For those of us who do long tours in their cars ...not critical but nice.
No door pockets or gearbox tunnel pockets but aftermarket people will do these things no doubt
No traction control or optional switch for it...handy in the wet when you want to get a wiggle on as I’m no hero skills driver and I doubt many are. With remaps this a potential 300hp car.

There is of course a good reason for most of the negatives , cost for traction was too high at the moment for them to include or get through homologation, the wheel has to be impact rated etc etc but these things may well be changed in the future I believe and I’m sure the hood will get better in time too not that it really bothers me.

Overall a good job. I love my plus 4 narrow body and drive it ‘enthusiastically’ all year round but would I change for one of these ? Very tempting indeed.
Posted By: Dean-Royal

Re: New 4cylinder car - 11/03/20 04:07 PM

https://youtu.be/aZ0pXTMBbMg

Did any one note the Driver is 40sh .....not 70sh hide
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 11/03/20 04:18 PM

It needs to be directed at the pointy shoed hipsters as the new customer base not the old farts, as reading on here very few will jump ship as they want the Classic bone jarring ride of old myself included.
Oh and then there is the noise of the V8 that would be a tough one to leave behind.

Smooth suspension and lots of safety kit is readily available from Kia to a Roller but there is little attraction for a fun car there laugh2 .
Posted By: DaveW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 11/03/20 04:22 PM

Exactly. Would you take a flight in a state of the art Cessna, or a Fairey Swordfish?

Other classic biplanes are available.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 11/03/20 04:35 PM


I've flown in the Bucker Jungmeister and Jungman + the Tiger Moth, Dragon Rapide, Stampe and Jackaroo but I would love a trip in a Swordfish if the RN could arrange it laugh2

There's nothing like an open cockpit and with a little water cooling on the face thumbs

Sadly my late father who was a wartime Spitfire pilot passed away before I got my first Plus 8 he would have loved it, it smells just like a plane when you have the roof up the leather hot engine smell just everything about and they have the same rawness about them, we are very fortunate to have temporary custody of these machines and owe Peter Morgan dearly..
Posted By: Quicksilver

Re: New 4cylinder car - 11/03/20 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by DaveW
Exactly. Would you take a flight in a state of the art Cessna, or a Fairey Swordfish?

Other classic biplanes are available.


Uncle Melvyn was telling me the other day that he has had many classic Morgan customers that are pilots. Obviously its all down to the similarity with Spitfires, Tiger Moths and other vintage aircraft. Not sure the new Plus 4 will replicate that feeling wink
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 21/03/20 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
It needs to be directed at the pointy shoed hipsters as the new customer base not the old farts, as reading on here very few will jump ship as they want the Classic bone jarring ride of old myself included.
Oh and then there is the noise of the V8 that would be a tough one to leave behind.

Smooth suspension and lots of safety kit is readily available from Kia to a Roller but there is little attraction for a fun car there laugh2 .



Is Kev really selling his supersport and buying a new plusfour ? Seems an unusual step for someone who likes atmospherics ! shocked2
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 21/03/20 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by madmax
Originally Posted by +8Rich
It needs to be directed at the pointy shoed hipsters as the new customer base not the old farts, as reading on here very few will jump ship as they want the Classic bone jarring ride of old myself included.
Oh and then there is the noise of the V8 that would be a tough one to leave behind.

Smooth suspension and lots of safety kit is readily available from Kia to a Roller but there is little attraction for a fun car there laugh2 .



Is Kev really selling his supersport and buying a new plusfour ? Seems an unusual step for someone who likes atmospherics ! shocked2

Oh no I don't think there is a hope in hell - he just likes to grab everyone's attention every now and again - I think he suffers from ADHD laugh2
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 21/03/20 07:27 PM

The Morgan variant - Atmospheric Driving in High Definition
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 21/03/20 07:32 PM

You are "on fire" tonight young man, do the slottery at least..
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 21/03/20 08:00 PM

Oh the irony, imagine winning lottery numbers and then not being able to go out and spend it, how nuts would that be?
Posted By: JB62

Re: New 4cylinder car - 21/03/20 08:59 PM

Aerobatics in a Tiger Moth- needs to be done!!
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 21/03/20 09:15 PM


It is one of the great experiences in life JB - everyone should do it at least once love a bit like owning a Morgan..

Here we Go A Stampe (High performance open cockpit biplane) for aerobatics or a Tiger Moth experience flight yours is the choice, we shall be needing pictures thumbs

Definitely best on an empty tum if going for the Stampe option.
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: New 4cylinder car - 22/03/20 11:57 AM

A lot of these in production at present. I do like the colour smile
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Peter J

Re: New 4cylinder car - 22/03/20 12:05 PM

Glorious looking car.
Can't they find any black wheel balance weights?
What, no Union Jack badge!
Posted By: Peter J

Re: New 4cylinder car - 22/03/20 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by JB62
Aerobatics in a Tiger Moth- needs to be done!!


Agree 100%.. done it twice, once in my Teens at the Tiger Club when it was at Redhill Airfield and once just after I retired from Old Sarum.
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 22/03/20 12:56 PM

Interesting colour - copper , a rare colour for a Mog even ! shades
Posted By: rid967

Re: New 4cylinder car - 22/03/20 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by madmax
Interesting colour - copper , a rare colour for a Mog even ! shades

Can’t say I like it. The Morgan classic suits and looks good in most colours (apart from pink.....sorry Melvyn and Brands Hatch Morgan) But, copper just doesn’t do it for me. Sorry!
Posted By: Peter J

Re: New 4cylinder car - 22/03/20 05:16 PM

Bronze does it for me...!!
Posted By: PeterG

Re: New 4cylinder car - 22/03/20 05:23 PM

That colour reminds me of a Nissan Almera, I have absolutely no idea why it does, but it does confused2
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 22/03/20 06:14 PM

I like it.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 22/03/20 07:17 PM

The black wires take away from it a bit for me. Considering it is a new car they have retained the shape very well.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 22/03/20 07:21 PM

Yes I prefer the new alloys they are lush..
Posted By: RobCol

Re: New 4cylinder car - 23/03/20 08:31 AM



I quite like the Copper colour but probably wouldn't pick it myself. I prefer solid colours and black alloys which to me give a retro look.

If I were buying a new Plus Four however, Black Alloys are £2000 extra over the standard alloys and metallic another £1000 and I'd spend the £3000 on other extras.

The other thing that stands out about the car is that in a photo it is virtually impossible to tell the car apart from a trad. Morgan must have decided that they cant improve on perfection and the only thing I dont like about the car is the front grille/spoiler which to me adds nothing. Give me a Wolf spolier any day!
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: New 4cylinder car - 23/03/20 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by RobCol
The other thing that stands out about the car is that in a photo it is virtually impossible to tell the car apart from a trad. Morgan must have decided that they cant improve on perfection and the only thing I dont like about the car is the front grille/spoiler which to me adds nothing. Give me a Wolf spolier any day!

It is something I have always found a bit strange about the front end of the trad. I think I would prefer to see the front mudguards come a little lower at the front and that there could be a continuous line from the bottom of the guards and under the radiator. It would make a more homogeneous front end instead of looking like a bunch of separate bits stuck on as an afterthought.

Not to the same extent as these race cars but you get the idea.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Gordon D

Re: New 4cylinder car - 23/03/20 04:27 PM

[Linked Image]

I agree with that, I think lowering the number plate in conjunction with overriders goes some way to improving the look.
I do like the Wolf version though.
Posted By: SimonH

Re: New 4cylinder car - 23/03/20 04:55 PM

The CX spoiler is to cover the gopping great lumps of chassis that support the radiator and wings, the chassis doesn't stop at the wheel centreline like on the trads

Simon@ SiFab.co.uk

Sifabtemporary@gmail.com
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 24/03/20 07:29 PM

Not many plusfours have come out the factory as KH told me they haven't got one yet ! And now the factory is shut for four weeks .... sick2
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 25/03/20 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by RobCol

The other thing that stands out about the car is that in a photo it is virtually impossible to tell the car apart from a trad. Morgan must have decided that they cant improve on perfection and the only thing I dont like about the car is the front grille/spoiler which to me adds nothing. Give me a Wolf spolier any day!

I agree, the promo Geneva 2019 version of Plus 6 had a more conventional and discreet valance grill as shown below, and spoilt IMHO by the mess offered in production, following through to the Plus Four.

I accept this almost full width grill may be needed on Plus 6 for extra cooling but why carry across to Plus Four?

[Linked Image]
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: New 4cylinder car - 25/03/20 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Graham, G4FUJ
A lot of these in production at present. I do like the colour smile
[Linked Image]


Very rarely seen, but dark brown mohair would IMO improve the colour co-ordination

BTW, those wheel weights grrrrr mad
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/03/20 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by CooperMan
Originally Posted by Graham, G4FUJ
A lot of these in production at present. I do like the colour smile
[Linked Image]


Very rarely seen, but dark brown mohair would IMO improve the colour co-ordination

BTW, those wheel weights grrrrr mad



There aren't any in production !
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/03/20 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by madmax
Originally Posted by CooperMan
Originally Posted by Graham, G4FUJ
A lot of these in production at present. I do like the colour smile


Very rarely seen, but dark brown mohair would IMO improve the colour co-ordination

BTW, those wheel weights grrrrr mad



There aren't any in production !


What, stick on wheel weights ? laugh2
Posted By: Robbie

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/03/20 09:27 AM

A quick spray of black paint on each weight would solve it!!!!!
Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/03/20 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by CooperMan
Originally Posted by madmax
Originally Posted by CooperMan
Originally Posted by Graham, G4FUJ
A lot of these in production at present. I do like the colour smile


Very rarely seen, but dark brown mohair would IMO improve the colour co-ordination

BTW, those wheel weights grrrrr mad



There aren't any in production !


What, stick on wheel weights ? laugh2



Wheel weights.....and Morgans ! banghead
Posted By: PeterG

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/03/20 02:34 PM

Can the stick on black wheels weights not be used on wire wheels ?
Posted By: Stringers Best Mate

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/03/20 05:26 PM

Dave W has a franchise of people who will attend your house and Humbrol them black..
Posted By: DaveW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/03/20 05:41 PM

To get a decent finish, they need taking off. You can mark the position first, but inevitably those weights damage the powder coating. It's OK until you get new tyres, then the old scars will remain, and are tricky to touch up.
Posted By: Hawki

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/03/20 07:02 PM

What kind of weights should be used?
Posted By: DaveW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/03/20 07:06 PM

4/4 rims are not wide enough for outside adhesive weights.

The Plus 4 and Roadster wheels, you could use adhesive weights, but they all tend to contain iron, and some will rust badly unless painted.

I haven't seen many (if any) adhesive weights on trads.
Posted By: Hawki

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/03/20 07:08 PM

Thanks Dave. Mines a plus4 so you have answered my question
Posted By: Fox Terrier

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/03/20 08:36 PM

I've found my perfect combination for when I fanally buy a new Plus Four:
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Gordon D

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/03/20 09:07 PM

Great choice. I didn't fancy red when I bought my Mog but that looks superb.
I would go for the alloys as well, I think they really look the part.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/03/20 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by DaveW
4/4 rims are not wide enough for outside adhesive weights.

The Plus 4 and Roadster wheels, you could use adhesive weights, but they all tend to contain iron, and some will rust badly unless painted.

I haven't seen many (if any) adhesive weights on trads.


A decent spec digital balancer can be programmed with the weight position option - in/out, both or inner only, or even mid point mounted from inside on narrow rims, so you can use 'stick on'

If you want extra security just stick some SA foil tape over them

Those evil hammer-on, exposed weights can leave a nasty blemish even on stainless
Posted By: sospan

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/03/20 07:17 PM

My 2002 Plus8 with alloys has adhesive weights. All on the inside so nothing visible. They are coated and no signs of deterioration after a few thousand miles. New last year but the old ones pre tyre change and replacement were also ok.
Posted By: P4CJL

Re: New 4cylinder car - 19/04/20 09:38 PM

Well done Morgan. At last, for me at least; having bought a new Trad back in 1998(8 year wait). This latest iteration represents the uplift this model needed for the good of the brand, but I will have fun running with my old "P4 XXX" plate. My P4 at top spec. back then came in at £28 K...22 years on; is £78K that out of step; especially for what most people would consider, to be for a more refined product.
Posted By: Luddite

Re: New 4cylinder car - 20/04/20 08:03 AM

The comment "a more refined product" kinda encapsulates the evolutionary process ..err..forced on the MMC over the years to some degree...?

I well remember JHJ`s attempts at modernisation and Peter`s resistance, which no doubt held things as they were for as long as possible during Perter`s reign, though some change was inevitable given the weight of changing legislation. As for legislation I have a sneaky feeling that there may have been someone at the Dept of Transport in position who perhaps looked favourably on the UK`s oldest one family owned motor manufacturers... (-:

I suspect that surviving fast changing legislative processes was perhaps frustrating but surviving through the evolution in customer desires was perhaps a more difficult tightrope walk..?

As those baby boomer members of the dirty fingernail fraternity aged living with ever stiffening muscles etc. they were perhaps joined by a new breed around the time of industry cost cutting, downsizing, de-layering and lump sums etc.etc. Perhaps those folk more used to the advanced technology and comforts of their mid range to high end saloons, thinking NOW is the time to buy that toy I always fancied...to then find that it did not fit the rose tinted youthful dream, thus it either was rarely used or was modified in an attempt to make it fit more with the needs of ageing long term faithful, and those who became Morgan owners later in life..?

I watched the VBH road test vid, thanks for posting, it was the first time I had seen it and I thought it a rather reasonable assessment of Morgan, for when I bought into the idea of Morgan ownership I had spent quite some time researching, and by the time I took the leap, I well knew what to expect, and VBH`s description of her Morgan experience fitted well with MY expectations.... other that the steering wheel SHOCKER... Jeez a ham fisted kit car builder could surely at least have got that right, let alone the UK`s oldest car manufacturer... !!!

Fortunately such is the appearance of the trad lines of a Morgan that still appeals today on a number of different levels, though the buyers needs and desires of it have altered, sure there will ever be those desirous of a degree of vintage driving experience, though there will be others who need or want, the brakes to require less pedal pressure, the steering to require less effort, the suspension system to be more compliant the trim to be more plush, air con perhaps..Yeah I can well see the desire for all of those things regardless of the initial reasons that lead folk to buy your Morgan...The CX seems an entirely logical step in the evolution of the MMC, as for the stage of Morgan evolution that might be considered the ideal Morgan....? Each to their own.

I sure hope the CX sells well keeping the name alive and all those folk at the MMC in a job for a very long time.
Posted By: RobCol

Re: New 4cylinder car - 20/04/20 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by P4CJL
Well done Morgan. At last, for me at least; having bought a new Trad back in 1998(8 year wait). This latest iteration represents the uplift this model needed for the good of the brand, but I will have fun running with my old "P4 XXX" plate. My P4 at top spec. back then came in at £28 K...22 years on; is £78K that out of step; especially for what most people would consider, to be for a more refined product.


I agree the new Plus Four is a great package and probably had to happen for Morgan to stay current but at a price.

I bought a new bottom of the range Audi in 1998 for £14K and a new bottom of the range but more refined Audi is now £19K. So Id say £38K compared to £78K is a massive difference.
Maybe the new Plus Four is more comparable with the Trad Roadster, howver the new basic Plus Four is £63K compared to the outgoing Plus 4's £44K

I'm only comparing cost new however as the Audi is an everyday car and my 1998 Audi will no doubt be in the scrapyard wheres your Morgan will probably still be worth most of its new cost price.

The market has changed however as there will never be an 8 year waiting list again and there are a lot of new or nearly new Plus 4 Trads on the market at the moment.

Posted By: madmax

Re: New 4cylinder car - 20/04/20 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by RobCol
Originally Posted by P4CJL
Well done Morgan. At last, for me at least; having bought a new Trad back in 1998(8 year wait). This latest iteration represents the uplift this model needed for the good of the brand, but I will have fun running with my old "P4 XXX" plate. My P4 at top spec. back then came in at £28 K...22 years on; is £78K that out of step; especially for what most people would consider, to be for a more refined product.


I agree the new Plus Four is a great package and probably had to happen for Morgan to stay current but at a price.

I bought a new bottom of the range Audi in 1998 for £14K and a new bottom of the range but more refined Audi is now £19K. So Id say £38K compared to £78K is a massive difference.
Maybe the new Plus Four is more comparable with the Trad Roadster, howver the new basic Plus Four is £63K compared to the outgoing Plus 4's £44K

I'm only comparing cost new however as the Audi is an everyday car and my 1998 Audi will no doubt be in the scrapyard wheres your Morgan will probably still be worth most of its new cost price.

The market has changed however as there will never be an 8 year waiting list again and there are a lot of new or nearly new Plus 4 Trads on the market at the moment.




Thats what we are all wondering on here , how to stump up around £35k plus to part ex ones Roadster or plus 4 to get a Plus four ? sherlock
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 20/04/20 06:46 PM

Yes. I am hoping the test drive will disappoint to avoid that issue
Posted By: waikiore

Re: New 4cylinder car - 20/04/20 10:33 PM

Leave your wallet at home that day John , without Corona I am sure MMC would not have been able to keep up with Plus four orders from what we have seen, still it's a whole new world now.
I wonder still if there is room for someone to do a "Caterham" and continue on with the trad 4/4 tooling building small numbers for those that can't afford the 60-70ish new buy in to Morgan four wheeled fun or will the dealers and restorers mop up that market with existing cars...
Posted By: Dada

Re: New 4cylinder car - 27/04/20 06:30 PM

Hello, is someone knowing if the 2 new CX generation Morgan use an unmodified BMW original ECU or a customised Morgan one or even a Morgan specific one please sherlock ?
Thanks and take care
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/04/20 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Dada
Hello, is someone knowing if the 2 new CX generation Morgan use an unmodified BMW original ECU or a customised Morgan one or even a Morgan specific one please sherlock ?
Thanks and take care

I would imagine it's a modified one developed for Morgan to delete a few of the unneeded integrated functions normally found on BMW cars. Anti-lock braking, traction control, cruise control, electric handbrake and possibly light bulb monitoring for example.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/04/20 01:27 PM

I agree. But probably the question is meant in the sense of whether the mapping has been adapted to the different vehicle. For example, whether the BMW 4 cylinder with manual transmission also has less torque than the automatic version, or whether the torque curve is the same in the Morgans as in the BMWs.
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/04/20 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Heinz
I agree. But probably the question is meant in the sense of whether the mapping has been adapted to the different vehicle. For example, whether the BMW 4 cylinder with manual transmission also has less torque than the automatic version, or whether the torque curve is the same in the Morgans as in the BMWs.

I agree that engine performance figures are probably tweaked within the PCM to suit the two Plus Four variants, but they probably are for each BMW car variant using that engine version as well.

What surprised me after the Plus Four launch were the big differences in max torque figures quoted between manual and automatic versions, although the same bhp confused2
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 28/04/20 02:56 PM

Just a guess, maybe the high plateau of torque at medium rpm has been capped in the manual version to protect the gearbox, and the maximum power is the same for automatic and manual at the higher rpm range. There the torque is lower and also the same for both versions but there is no more danger for the manual gearbox.
In addition perhaps with the manual box the same HP is realized at slightly higher revs with a little less torque.
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 29/04/20 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by Heinz
Just a guess, maybe the high plateau of torque at medium rpm has been capped in the manual version to protect the gearbox, and the maximum power is the same for automatic and manual at the higher rpm range. There the torque is lower and also the same for both versions but there is no more danger for the manual gearbox.
In addition perhaps with the manual box the same HP is realized at slightly higher revs with a little less torque.

I was going to suggest it didn't make sense for BMW to supply an engine and manual transmission package that wouldn't take to the full torque of their 190kW variant of the B48 engine. However having had a closer look at the other cars that use that engine variant it appears they all use the ZF 8HP auto box, excepting hybrids.

I wonder therefore if the situation was as you suggest. Maybe MMC feeling they needed to offer a manual option to satisfy cutomer demand on their +4 replacement, asked BMW to provide a manual engine transmission package. Pure speculation but possibly BMW's response was to offer a gearbox from a less powerful variant that required re-programming of the powertrain to limit torque down from the standard 295lbft (400Nm) to 258lbft (350Nm), a surprisingly large reduction IMO, and one of the first things I noticed when the Plus Four was first announced, reflected by the slower 0-100 kph figure.

Would be interested to hear if anyone knows any different on this issue.
Posted By: Hawki

Re: New 4cylinder car - 29/04/20 08:18 AM

It’s amazing how things have changed. It wasn’t many year ago when the manual always had the best performance and an automatic option always meant a slower car with worse fuel economy.

I feel fortunate becoming disabled at the right time so an automatic is a bonus not a liability. I perfectly understand however why people still like manuals.
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 30/04/20 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Hawki
It’s amazing how things have changed. It wasn’t many year ago when the manual always had the best performance and an automatic option always meant a slower car with worse fuel economy.

I agree, although the ZF 8HP gearbox is a tough act to follow, turning the trend of quicker dual clutch auto's trans back to torque converters. Nevertheless I guess we both know how slick it is having driven the Plus Six.

[Linked Image]

The case for the new manual Plus Four's performance is seemingly engineered though. Less torque hence worse performance, slightly worse fuel economy and higher CO2 emissions just don't stack up. At least it's cheaper than the auto version though.

On a side note, interesting that BMW can swap out the torque converter for an electric drive as easy adaption for hybrid cars.
Posted By: 1560

Re: New 4cylinder car - 30/04/20 05:33 PM

I think it is smart to lower the torque on the manual and keep the hp
as you have too much torque due to the turbo
now you can build up power rather than too much low-rev oomph
Posted By: Fox Terrier

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/06/20 11:13 AM

Is there a fully electric Plus Four E planned? If so, I'm really intrigued.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 01/06/20 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Fox Terrier
Is there a fully electric Plus Four E planned? If so, I'm really intrigued.


If there was, I'm pretty sure I could get clearance from the domestic authorities. Here's hoping!
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/06/20 07:52 AM

Given the ZF 8HP auto box in the present Plus Four is already the base for BMW hybrids, wouldn't such be an easier first step towards full electric for MMC [Linked Image]
Posted By: Clipper

Re: New 4cylinder car - 02/06/20 09:01 PM

Morgan could do a lot worse than tap into the billions of euros BMW are spending on EV.

Source Car Mag

[Linked Image]
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 11:55 AM

I've mentioned this before, but the i3 driveline & thin modular batteries could be adapted to fit the CX chassis
Posted By: clubsport

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 12:17 PM

Carfection's Henry C drives +4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyNsfBRPHrE
Posted By: Alistair

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 12:58 PM

As long as it does not come with the nose or styling!

It would be great to get some press coverage as well. All being well there might be a Geneva to launch it at next year. Provided Morgan want to commit the budget, the situation this year must have played hell on marketing plans.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 12:59 PM

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/morgan/first-drives/morgan-plus-four-2020-uk-review

Press coverage today.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by clubsport
Carfection's Henry C drives +4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyNsfBRPHrE


I like the review. In the video I think one can see that she is really good road handling in the curves.
Posted By: deano

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 01:41 PM

Road test just posted on Pistonheads

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/2020-morgan-plus-four---uk-review/42525
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 02:14 PM

I quite like Henry Catchpole, comes over as down to earth - one of the lads, and certainly 'gets' Morgans & why folk like them
Posted By: SFO

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 03:19 PM

Press car interiors should be more colourful 💥
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Heinz
Originally Posted by clubsport
Carfection's Henry C drives +4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyNsfBRPHrE


I like the review. In the video I think one can see that she is really good road handling in the curves.

Having driven a Plus four this is a very fair review.
Posted By: Hawki

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 05:14 PM

John, you beat me to it. I just saw the vid and thought I’ll post the link only to see your comment. I guess that’s why you’re in the inner circle and I still have L plates 😀.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 05:44 PM


I've fallen in love with those alloys they are the DB's they really sell the car for me and the whole package just looks right being a Trad man, the Six not so much.
Posted By: Clipper

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 07:30 PM

This is a nicely specced Plus 4 at Berrybrook showing wire wheels and spare fitted and with wood dash.

It looks looks like they will cost circa £75k - I would also want a luggage rack though.

Not seen overriders or glove box door on any pics - expect dash option is available but are overriders finished with?

Surprised MMC are using the big rear view mirrors they fitted in the Aero - surely the small chrome ones are better.

I knocked mine off by accident and found it impossible to stick back on.

https://www.berrybrookmorgan.co.uk/...-launch-edition-2-0l-bmw-b48-turbo-b552/
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 07:35 PM

Airbags would have been very good. But if there are no airbags I would change the steering wheel first.
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 07:40 PM

There don't seem to be overriders or bumpers shown on the price list.

And, as Heinz mentioned, the lack of airbags means the steering wheel could be changed, once someone has produced some alternatives.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 07:44 PM

My money is on Morgan Park grin2
Posted By: Clipper

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 07:49 PM

Telegraph review article

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[img]https://www.tm-img.com/images/2020/06/03/056BD586-D83A-4DC3-AEC4-6B33E1D07572.png[/img]
[img]https://www.tm-img.com/images/2020/06/03/78267A97-73E5-4477-8F65-55F637B6D3C3.png[/img]
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 08:16 PM

Does the Plus Four has anti lock brakes as the report says?
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by John V6
Originally Posted by Heinz
Originally Posted by clubsport
Carfection's Henry C drives +4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyNsfBRPHrE


I like the review. In the video I think one can see that she is really good road handling in the curves.

Having driven a Plus four this is a very fair review.

John, did you do a write up of your Plus Four experiences...I "missed it" - please advise - thanks Mark
Posted By: waikiore

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 08:32 PM

Those new alloys really are superb, for me they complement the correct proportions of this model too.
Posted By: ewn

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 08:40 PM

I too love those alloys,in fact, the whole thing looks the biz.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by MDS61
Originally Posted by John V6
Originally Posted by Heinz
Originally Posted by clubsport
Carfection's Henry C drives +4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyNsfBRPHrE


I like the review. In the video I think one can see that she is really good road handling in the curves.

Having driven a Plus four this is a very fair review.

John, did you do a write up of your Plus Four experiences...I "missed it" - please advise - thanks Mark


Mark, it is in the photo gallery.
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 09:12 PM


John, did you do a write up of your Plus Four experiences...I "missed it" - please advise - thanks Mark[/quote]

Mark, it is in the photo gallery.
[/quote]
Perfect - thanks Heinz thumbs
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by Heinz
Does the Plus Four has anti lock brakes as the report says?

According to KH salesman Dan, the Plus Four does not have anti-lock brakes despite press reports suggesting otherwise. He went on to say even the Plus Six only has it on the front brakes.

Good video from Henry and equally good report from PH, both acknowledging the exceptionally long gearing I found. 80 mph in second at the red line and 70 mph at only 1500rpm in sixth. I can't help thinking this is some sort of compromise that MMC have been obliged to accept. Much like the ridiculously low first gear on my Roadster, a spill over from its Mustang origins perhaps.
Posted By: Jon G4LJW

Re: New 4cylinder car - 03/06/20 11:16 PM

That's interesting about the brakes. The Plus Four owner's manual mentions (on page 5) - "ABS Standard".

Also, if you download a PDF summary after using the Configurator, ABS is listed under "Standard Features".
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 06:24 AM

I'm a bit intrigued by the long gearing criticisms. It appears that the car is plenty quick enough with a very respectable 0-60 times, and it also seems that it has a very wide torque spread. So what's the deal with the gearing?

From the sound of it, if 2nd will take you up to 70mph or so, then for larking about 3rd gear would seem to be ideal, with 4th and 5th for bimbling and 6th for ultra laid back motorway touring.

Watching Henry Catchpole's video just made me want one even more. Unfortunately the Premium Bonds only managed to come up with £75 this month rather than £75k. Ah well...
Posted By: Clipper

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 07:31 AM

Should have bought at the bottom Tim

[Linked Image]
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 07:41 AM

The point on the gearing is exactly what Henry said. In 6th at 70 if you want to accelerate quickly you need to drop a gear so the turbo kicks in.
In reality you could drive round all day in second as that gear takes you easily up to 60 mph.
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 07:55 AM

I suppose it depends on your driving style Tim. Certainly there are enough gears and a slick enough gearchange to promote fun driving on country roads. On motorways and dual carriageways though if just cruising at the legal limit in sixth you would be out of the torque band at 1500rpm and there simply wouldn't be enough available to overtake cleanly or compensate for a slight hill. Changing down one or likely two gears would obviously solve the problem but that defeats the point of the outstandingly high top gear ratio to allow the published low fuel consumption figures. Indeed one of the reviews does suggest that the sixth gearing is simply there to appease the EU, whereas to my mind a six speed box should provide six practical gears.

I'm well aware of this high gearing issue on my Roadster which also requires a change down from sixth to overtake cleanly on motorways despite having more available torque, particularly at the 2000rpm the legal limit represents. The Plus Four's sixth gear is nearly 30% higher still, has less torque and slightly higher weight!
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by John V6
The point on the gearing is exactly what Henry said. In 6th at 70 if you want to accelerate quickly you need to drop a gear so the turbo kicks in.
In reality you could drive round all day in second as that gear takes you easily up to 60 mph.


Ah. I'm so used to the idea of dropping a cog or two to get quick acceleration that I have never seen this as a problem - it's as easy to be in too high a gear as it is to be in too low a gear. To me, Henry Catchpole's point reads like "If you're driving along in the wrong gear, you need to put it into the right gear to get it to do what you want".

I think if I was on a motorway in a situation where I might need a sudden burst of acceleration, to take advantage of gaps or get out of the way of something, I'd probably be in 4th or 5th anyway.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 08:11 AM

After all, the question is what one wants to do with the car in the real world. Even my small light 4/4 is too long although the engine still has enough power with 140 HP. But e.g. for hairpin bends in the Alps the first gear is obviously too short, but the second gear is always an idea too long, so i have to make use of the first gear after braking down if i do not want to torture the engine.
Back to the new Plus Four.
I have to try the new Plus Four myself. In theory I would say, it is boring to drive on B roads always in second gear.
But if the new Plus Four is designed to be so long, I might still like to shift gears. I know some modern gasoline turbo engines that are no fun revs up there, they have a clogged sound and they get tougher and tougher. Many have a sweetspot around 3000 to 4500 rpm. Maybe I will shift gears as early as I do with diesel.
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Richard Wood
I suppose it depends on your driving style Tim. Certainly there are enough gears and a slick enough gearchange to promote fun driving on country roads. On motorways and dual carriageways though if just cruising at the legal limit in sixth you would be out of the torque band at 1500rpm and there simply wouldn't be enough available to overtake cleanly or compensate for a slight hill. Changing down one or likely two gears would obviously solve the problem but that defeats the point of the outstandingly high top gear ratio to allow the published low fuel consumption figures. Indeed one of the reviews does suggest that the sixth gearing is simply there to appease the EU, whereas to my mind a six speed box should provide six practical gears.

I'm well aware of this high gearing issue on my Roadster which also requires a change down from sixth to overtake cleanly on motorways despite having more available torque, particularly at the 2000rpm the legal limit represents. The Plus Four's sixth gear is nearly 30% higher still, has less torque and slightly higher weight!


This is where the auto - would be the better option?
3rd gear on the auto is very similar in terms of revs and mph to 2nd in the manual box.

Changing down a gear on the motorway @ 70mph - to overtake seamlessly is nonsensical (interestingly with my Roadster - you certain don't have to do that) and being in 4th or 5th "just in case" also defeats the objective?

I like the "involvement" a manual gearbox gives to the Morgan driving experience, however, with modern engines (turbo boosted in particular) the auto gearbox - may be the better solution? They work better together?

Auto - you would also have somewhere to put your left foot grin2
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Clipper
Should have bought at the bottom Tim


The problem is that (a) I have no clue at all what the bottom is or how to spot it, and (b) no clue at all as to what to buy if I were to.

These days I am so risk averse I've got out of anything even remotely volatile apart from some Prudential shares that I've been sat on for 30 years.
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by MDS61
Originally Posted by Richard Wood
I suppose it depends on your driving style Tim. Certainly there are enough gears and a slick enough gearchange to promote fun driving on country roads. On motorways and dual carriageways though if just cruising at the legal limit in sixth you would be out of the torque band at 1500rpm and there simply wouldn't be enough available to overtake cleanly or compensate for a slight hill. Changing down one or likely two gears would obviously solve the problem but that defeats the point of the outstandingly high top gear ratio to allow the published low fuel consumption figures. Indeed one of the reviews does suggest that the sixth gearing is simply there to appease the EU, whereas to my mind a six speed box should provide six practical gears.

I'm well aware of this high gearing issue on my Roadster which also requires a change down from sixth to overtake cleanly on motorways despite having more available torque, particularly at the 2000rpm the legal limit represents. The Plus Four's sixth gear is nearly 30% higher still, has less torque and slightly higher weight!


This is where the auto - would be the better option?
3rd gear on the auto is very similar in terms of revs and mph to 2nd in the manual box.

Changing down a gear on the motorway @ 70mph - to overtake seamlessly is nonsensical (interestingly with my Roadster - you certain don't have to do that) and being in 4th or 5th "just in case" also defeats the objective?

I like the "involvement" a manual gearbox gives to the Morgan driving experience, however, with modern engines (turbo boosted in particular) the auto gearbox - may be the better solution? They work better together?

Auto - you would also have somewhere to put your left foot grin2

Totally agree Mark, and yes the high gearing in sixth on my car and ironically ridiculously low first seems to be just a Mustang engined Roadster issue.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by MDS61

Changing down a gear on the motorway @ 70mph - to overtake seamlessly is nonsensical (interestingly with my Roadster - you certain don't have to do that) and being in 4th or 5th "just in case" also defeats the objective?


I suppose it must also depend on what one feels the 'objective' is? The way I see it, a manual gearbox is a torque selection device, allowing you to choose the appropriate amount of torque available for the situation in which one is driving. Thus each gear should have (in theory) a set of circumstances for which it is best suited, and if those circumstances change then the gear selection should also change to suit those new circumstances. Hence to go from low-revs cruising to moderate revs acceleration one would expect to change gear, and the more acceleration/revs one wanted the bigger the change - so 6 to 4 when one wants a big burst on the motorway for example seems entirely right and proper to me. My see my 4/4's 5 speeds as:

1. Pulling away
2. Trickling through town
3. Max acceleration, B road fun, A road overtaking
4. Moderate acceleration, A road cruising, Motorway overtaking
5. Motorways and dual carriageway steady state, general bimbling

I'd quite like a 6th gear to drop the revs down another 500rpm or so at 70mph, but I'm used to it now after 20 years

My old man could never get his head around this concept, his thinking was that the gearbox existed solely to allow him to progress until he got into top gear, at which point he expected to leave it there without ever changing gear again until he came to a stop.

But you're absolutely right, it could well be that the automatic version is better suited to many people's driving styles and would give a much better driving experience. And as for the 'ugly' auto selector? I'd just put a tweed sock over it if it really bothered me that much :-)
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by MDS61

Changing down a gear on the motorway @ 70mph - to overtake seamlessly is nonsensical (interestingly with my Roadster - you certain don't have to do that) and being in 4th or 5th "just in case" also defeats the objective?


I suppose it must also depend on what one feels the 'objective' is? The way I see it, a manual gearbox is a torque selection device, allowing you to choose the appropriate amount of torque available for the situation in which one is driving. Thus each gear should have (in theory) a set of circumstances for which it is best suited, and if those circumstances change then the gear selection should also change to suit those new circumstances. Hence to go from low-revs cruising to moderate revs acceleration one would expect to change gear, and the more acceleration/revs one wanted the bigger the change - so 6 to 4 when one wants a big burst on the motorway for example seems entirely right and proper to me. My see my 4/4's 5 speeds as:

1. Pulling away
2. Trickling through town
3. Max acceleration, B road fun, A road overtaking
4. Moderate acceleration, A road cruising, Motorway overtaking
5. Motorways and dual carriageway steady state, general bimbling

I'd quite like a 6th gear to drop the revs down another 500rpm or so at 70mph, but I'm used to it now after 20 years

My old man could never get his head around this concept, his thinking was that the gearbox existed solely to allow him to progress until he got into top gear, at which point he expected to leave it there without ever changing gear again until he came to a stop.

But you're absolutely right, it could well be that the automatic version is better suited to many people's driving styles and would give a much better driving experience. And as for the 'ugly' auto selector? I'd just put a tweed sock over it if it really bothered me that much :-)


Tim, I can hear my Dad (no longer with us) saying the same thing "get into "top gear" and keep it there! scared
Posted By: Clipper

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by Clipper
Should have bought at the bottom Tim


The problem is that (a) I have no clue at all what the bottom is or how to spot it, and (b) no clue at all as to what to buy if I were to.




Neither do most fund managers to be fair which is why they can't beat the index!

Cheaper to buy a copy of the FT - pin it to the wall at the share pages and then hire a monkey to throw darts at it.

Anyway - back to gear ratios!
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 12:42 PM


Reading this just makes me realise what an absolute joy it is to own a car that will take off from standstill in 4th gear and just keep on delivering power all the way through, not a recommended practise before the clutch police arrive..

I'm really done with revving frantic things..
Posted By: Luddite

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich

Reading this just makes me realise what an absolute joy it is to own a car that will take off from standstill in 4th gear and just keep on delivering power all the way through, not a recommended practise before the clutch police arrive..

I'm really done with revving frantic things..


Mee maw, mee maw, mee maw... Clutch police here.... OH.. it`s a +8, apologies sir, my younger self did not know any better...(-:
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: New 4cylinder car - 04/06/20 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Luddite
Originally Posted by +8Rich

Reading this just makes me realise what an absolute joy it is to own a car that will take off from standstill in 4th gear and just keep on delivering power all the way through, not a recommended practise before the clutch police arrive..

I'm really done with revving frantic things..


Mee maw, mee maw, mee maw... Clutch police here.... OH.. it`s a +8, apologies sir, my younger self did not know any better...(-:

I hope that's just a ticket but no points Occifer - I haven't had any of those since 1986 dear boy..
Posted By: MDS61

Re: New 4cylinder car - 10/06/20 07:07 AM

Nicely specc'd new PlusFour - for sale only £78,549........ farmer

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1233633
Posted By: Rovert

Re: New 4cylinder car - 10/06/20 07:16 AM

Rather nice, but if paying list price I would rather have one built to my own spec than someone elses.
Posted By: Clipper

Re: New 4cylinder car - 10/06/20 07:27 AM

Had a quick look on Williams site which includes a price list for extras - not sure if it includes VAT though.

With auto and sports exhaust etc you would up to £80k
Posted By: John V6

Re: New 4cylinder car - 10/06/20 07:46 AM

Sadly 75 to 80k is easily reachable. VAT is in there though.
Posted By: RobCol

Re: New 4cylinder car - 10/06/20 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Rovert
Rather nice, but if paying list price I would rather have one built to my own spec than someone elses.


Id spec my own too, however if you want a Plus Four to your spec then the Covid situation hasn't helped and apparently its 6 months wait so maybe next January for deliveries.
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