Talk Morgan

Safety Recall - Brakes

Posted By: Clipper

Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 04:33 PM

Advised by my dealer Ledgerwood that emails are going out to Plus Six owners not to use the car until a possible leaking master brake cylinder issue is fixed - loss of brakes is possible.

Not sure if it affects other vehicles.

Dealer meeting tomorrow Wednesday - not sure how cars will get to the dealer.

Affected owners to be contacted.

I had to ring the dealer because I was advised by another motorist that my brake lights were on permanently. Dealer told me to push a switch connected to the brake pedal lever under steering wheel which made a ratcheting noise and moved about an inch which cured the problem.

Mechanism that controls the brake lights must be sticking - need to keep an eye on that.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 05:14 PM

Well if they have instructed you NOT to drive it MMC is duty bound to trailer it to the factory or more likely your local dealer will pick it up to complete the work.
God help anyone currently on tour then...
Posted By: SER

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 05:44 PM

Had the call at lunch time today from my local dealer I'm a new Plus Four owner so looks like recall affects all CX vehicles, only had the car for two weeks!
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 05:49 PM

Dear Mister ,...................
We understand from our records that you are the current registered keeper of a vehicle with the chassis number
detailed above.
We would like to advise you that during ongoing quality assessment of our product we have identified a possible
safety related issue in respect of all Morgan Plus Four and Plus Six vehicles.
Preliminary investigations indicate that in certain limited circumstances, premature degradation of the rubber seal(s) in
the brake master cylinder may result in compromised brake performance, and in extreme cases cause brake failure.
Because this is a possible safety issue, we are immediately advising that you should not drive your vehicle until a
rectification action has been completed.
Your supplying dealer will contact you as soon as the service action has been finalised in order to arrange for your
car to be rectified.
This work will of course be carried out free of charge. If you have any questions regarding this letter, please speak to
your supplying or nearest Morgan Dealership. Please quote the recall reference detailed at the top right-hand side of
the letter when calling.
We have sent you this important notice as we are concerned about your safety.
Your safety is our highest priority. We regret any inconvenience this inspection may cause; however, we are
committed to ensuring the continued safe operation of your vehicle
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Well if they have instructed you NOT to drive it MMC is duty bound to trailer it to the factory or more likely your local dealer will pick it up to complete the work.
God help anyone currently on tour then...


Dealer says one owner in Portugal.

Says check fluid reservoir. - if full should be okay - not leaking hide
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 05:52 PM

As far i am concerned the car had breaking problems since the beginning , and i have adapted my way of driving since .
Posted By: Themorganeer

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 06:42 PM

This is going to cost.

What’s different in the CX master cylinder department to those on the classics?
Posted By: deano

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 07:20 PM

Probably a simple & quick rectification for the dealer to complete
Posted By: flyfisher

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 07:20 PM

Surely the CX master cylinder isn’t unique to Morgan…

Expect it is unique to the CX rather all due to ABS
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by deano
Probably a simple & quick rectification for the dealer to complete

IIRC it's integral to the servo and access is pretty tight, plus some poor sod's get to wriggle into that tiny footwell to release the pedal connection, then bleed all the hydraulics and the ABS...
Posted By: gaston

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 07:32 PM

Have you received a letter, an email, a call?
I haven't received anything.
Nobody loves Me!!! irked
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 07:35 PM

I’ve got a full fluid reservoir and been driving for eighteen months so think risk is minimal but need to call dealer to ask if leak is gradual or Chernobyl.
Posted By: xc68anc

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 08:11 PM

Don‘t feel save if you don‘t loose fluid!

I‘ve got old MINIs and now a 2018 Plus4. With both cars I‘ve got no pressure in the clutch system. „Only“ the clutch.

The MINI mastercylinder (and the slave) was rebuild, the MOG was brand new.

The MINI lost the systempressure and I realize there is something wrong. But not really wrong… more in a way „ups, worse clutch? Wrong shift the gears.“ And than: bang, no clutch. Without any loose of fluid. The gaiters inside the cylinders doesn‘t work.

The MOG a little different. Yes, there was something wrong changing the gears. Also I notice: not so so smooth…
But than a total loose of clutch… waiting a moment… the world is just okay. A lot of miles later: ah, is it wrong or is it right?
Than a stop: total loose of clutch pressure.

Both worries without any loose of fluid! So keep aware, may be the pressure is missing in a bad moment.

Greets René
Posted By: SER

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 08:24 PM

I'm sure there's a bit of overkill but my understanding is that as an official recall and as such it would be foolish to ignore and may invalidate insurance.
I'm just concerned about how long the fix will take given that they've not officially said what needs to be done and the cars will need to be trailered to the dealer.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by SER
I'm sure there's a bit of overkill but my understanding is that as an official recall and as such it would be foolish to ignore and may invalidate insurance.
I'm just concerned about how long the fix will take given that they've not officially said what needs to be done and the cars will need to be trailered to the dealer.

Not good news for affected owners or Morgan. Best to take it seriously and get the car checked ASAP.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/06/22 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Themorganeer
This is going to cost.


If it's proven/recognised to be the braking system manufacturer at fault MMC will transfer the costs maybe.

Once the CX owners have personally received this email from MMC they have effectively transferred the risk onto the owners/drivers with all that implies..
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 07:33 AM

yes ,yesterday from Steven Sels. I will drive myself to the garage , It is less risky than a trailer . I suppose it will not fail directly after receiving the letter.
Posted By: teknome

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 09:22 AM

Just had an email from Williams, quoting correct chassis number and telling me to stop driving my Plus 4.

We would like to advise you that during ongoing quality assessment of our product we have identified a possible safety related issue in respect of all Morgan Plus Four and Plus Six vehicles.

However I think they are taking 'all Plus 4' too literally, as mine is a 2007!

Maybe an opportunity for a new master cylinder ? although there may be a problem getting it to fit
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 09:47 AM

Just been told of this problem. Apparently we must not drive our vehicles. Due to possible brake failure (mentioned in the recall) and the fact that we must not drive, are we actually insured? Read the small print in your policy. I bet we are not and if we have an accident then who will pay. But how are we going to get our vehicles to our dealership?
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Derek596
Just been told of this problem. Apparently we must not drive our vehicles. Due to possible brake failure (mentioned in the recall) and the fact that we must not drive, are we actually insured? Read the small print in your policy. I bet we are not and if we have an accident then who will pay. But how are we going to get our vehicles to our dealership?

I'll repeat it - Once the CX owners have personally received this email from MMC they have effectively transferred the risk onto the owners/drivers with all that implies.. including invalidating your insurance naturally.

MMC have the responsibility now to trailer your car to your dealer or the factory.

Happy to be corrected as always.

This is a bummer but a safety call is serious unlike a dripping radiator or cardboard seats...
Posted By: Capt Aero

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 09:58 AM

My new Plus Four was completed but then held at the factory since 13th May 2022. Best wishes to everyone who's away in their cars, keep safe.
Rob
Posted By: Lordofthewings

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 10:31 AM

Just curious -- what does this imply for all the CX demonstrators, the new/unsold cars, and the low-mileage used cars being held at dealers ?
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Lordofthewings
Just curious -- what does this imply for all the CX demonstrators, the new/unsold cars, and the low-mileage used cars being held at dealers ?


They won't need to be returned to the dealers, as they're already there smile

I imagine they'd just get fixed/upgraded as part of the process.
Posted By: JJR

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Derek596
Just been told of this problem. Apparently we must not drive our vehicles. Due to possible brake failure (mentioned in the recall) and the fact that we must not drive, are we actually insured? Read the small print in your policy. I bet we are not and if we have an accident then who will pay. But how are we going to get our vehicles to our dealership?

I'll repeat it - Once the CX owners have personally received this email from MMC they have effectively transferred the risk onto the owners/drivers with all that implies.. including invalidating your insurance naturally.

MMC have the responsibility now to trailer your car to your dealer or the factory.

Happy to be corrected as always.

This is a bummer but a safety call is serious unlike a dripping radiator or cardboard seats...

Hi Rich,
If MMC say don't drive your car it may not be safe and you are foolish enough to drive it then the risk you are choosing to take on board is lack of insurance.

What other risk are you including in "with all that implies".

Maybe I'm missing something, in which case as a Plus Four owner I should be concerned not to mention grateful if you could point out whatever that might be.

Thanks and regards,

John
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by MMC
Dear Mister ,...................
We understand from our records that you are the current registered keeper of a vehicle with the chassis number
detailed above.
We would like to advise you that during ongoing quality assessment of our product we have identified a possible
safety related issue in respect of all Morgan Plus Four and Plus Six vehicles.
Preliminary investigations indicate that in certain limited circumstances, premature degradation of the rubber seal(s) in
the brake master cylinder may result in compromised brake performance, and in extreme cases cause brake failure.
Because this is a possible safety issue, we are immediately advising that you should not drive your vehicle until a
rectification action has been completed.
Your supplying dealer will contact you as soon as the service action has been finalised in order to arrange for your
car to be rectified.
This work will of course be carried out free of charge. If you have any questions regarding this letter, please speak to
your supplying or nearest Morgan Dealership. Please quote the recall reference detailed at the top right-hand side of
the letter when calling.
We have sent you this important notice as we are concerned about your safety.
Your safety is our highest priority. We regret any inconvenience this inspection may cause; however, we are
committed to ensuring the continued safe operation of your vehicle.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by JJR
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Derek596
Just been told of this problem. Apparently we must not drive our vehicles. Due to possible brake failure (mentioned in the recall) and the fact that we must not drive, are we actually insured? Read the small print in your policy. I bet we are not and if we have an accident then who will pay. But how are we going to get our vehicles to our dealership?

I'll repeat it - Once the CX owners have personally received this email from MMC they have effectively transferred the risk onto the owners/drivers with all that implies.. including invalidating your insurance naturally.

MMC have the responsibility now to trailer your car to your dealer or the factory.

Happy to be corrected as always.

This is a bummer but a safety call is serious unlike a dripping radiator or cardboard seats...

Hi Rich,
If MMC say don't drive your car it may not be safe and you are foolish enough to drive it then the risk you are choosing to take on board is lack of insurance.

What other risk are you including in "with all that implies".

Maybe I'm missing something, in which case as a Plus Four owner I should be concerned not to mention grateful if you could point out whatever that might be.

Thanks and regards,

John

Hi John,

The risk of injury serious or otherwise for one, endangering other road users springs to mind but the list is long.
Worse case scenario you write the car off yourself and passenger plus whatever else/person you connect with, it is a huge risk, but some people gamble too.
It may even be a prosecutable offence but that is a guess.

Brakes and steering are the zero tolerance areas for me though.

Regards,
Rich
Posted By: Charles75

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 12:17 PM

Oh man, thats bad news. And i wolud Saturday on the Racetrack Bilster Berg.
Posted By: flyfisher

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 01:50 PM

Expect they will have a fix in days rather than weeks as they won’t be able to sell any cars so no income from car sales till
It is fixed…

Challenge will be for the dealers and factory to have the time to fix all the cars

If Robs car has been held at the factory since the 13th May does that mean they have know about the issue since then? I notice on Instagram dealers like Krazy Horse where doing new car deliveries last week.
Posted By: Lordofthewings

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by flyfisher
Challenge will be for the dealers and factory to have the time to fix all the cars

So general disruption within the system, and at a busy time of year. How many CX's have been sold ? In the UK, divide that figure by the number of dealers, and that's a chunk of time taken-up per dealer, thereby also pushing-back ongoing servicing etc. As trailering is required, that also ties-up transport for around a day per car to get them to the dealers; and then what ? -- trailer time/cost again to get them back to the hapless owners ?
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 02:44 PM

The root cause of this will be interesting, because braking systems are well developed nowadays, so it's hard to see how this situation has come about.
Posted By: AndyMog57

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 02:44 PM

Hi all, my inaugural post and it relates to the DVSA recall!

I too was called by Oakmere (dealer I purchased from) with all the above that has been mentioned.

They informed me that all dealers had a meeting with MMC this afternoon to decide what is to be done and when.

My guess is it will be a replacement master cylinder. Bleed brakes, remove MC, fit new one, refill and bleed system and test. Probably four to six hours work.

I understand from the DVSA web site it affects 1274 cars from late 2019 onwards; in other words, all CX platform cars.

My concern is how long it will take to get this work done. The dealer network is small and how will they prioritise the work? I guess it will be oldest first.

Having only owned my new Plus Four for five weeks and having many trips and events planned, this is a real disappointment.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 03:01 PM

The smaller but very valuable dealers (I can think of four) they binned as they weren't prepared to carry large stocks of cars will be smiling at this, Karma is a shared experience.

I wish you CX boys and girls well for a timely resolution, this is bad timing in the extreme.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by thierry242
yes ,yesterday from Steven Sels. I will drive myself to the garage , It is less risky than a trailer . I suppose it will not fail directly after receiving the letter.


But will your insurance be valid?
Posted By: Lordofthewings

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by AndyMog57
My guess is it will be a replacement master cylinder. Bleed brakes, remove MC, fit new one, refill and bleed system and test. Probably four to six hours work. I understand from the DVSA web site it affects 1274 cars from late 2019 onwards; in other words, all CX platform cars.

If the DVSA figure is correct, then in back-of-an-envelope figures, that's 1274 x (say 5 hrs at say £70) = say £450K. Then add the trailering costs, say 1274 x (say £150 twice) = say another £350K. Oh and loss of sales in the meantime, loss of goodwill and brand reputation. If I was Massimo I would be very very worried about this.
Posted By: flyfisher

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 03:32 PM

£70 a hour… a lot of Morgan dealers now charge double that.. loss of sales and goodwill is the main problem, expect this and the radiator issues some people where on their 5th might be the last straw for some CX owners, they might regret selling their trads.

I have always felt with the Aero and CX cars they are nearly to complex for Morgan to make without issues long term.. one just has to look at the troubles Aeros have had, in contrast the trad is a very simple car with little to go wrong.
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 03:37 PM

Merc brake problem on a slightly larger scale

[Linked Image]
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Lordofthewings
Originally Posted by AndyMog57
My guess is it will be a replacement master cylinder. Bleed brakes, remove MC, fit new one, refill and bleed system and test. Probably four to six hours work. I understand from the DVSA web site it affects 1274 cars from late 2019 onwards; in other words, all CX platform cars.

If the DVSA figure is correct, then in back-of-an-envelope figures, that's 1274 x (say 5 hrs at say £70) = say £450K. Then add the trailering costs, say 1274 x (say £150 twice) = say another £350K. Oh and loss of sales in the meantime, loss of goodwill and brand reputation. If I was Massimo I would be very very worried about this.

I suspect there will have been a conversation between Steve, Massimo and the brake Master cylinder supplier, before we all go jumping to unknown conclusions and possible costings innocent unless you already know who will be footing the bill of course ?

What MMC does not need right now is more negativity being spread at this very difficult moment - just saying thumbs
Posted By: NickB54

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 03:54 PM

After working for over 30 years in the motor industry, for a vehicle manufacturer, I cannot remember a STOP RECALL. Safety Recalls and Service Measures, yes, but not a stop recall.

To introduce such a serious measure there must have been some incidents which have resulted in accidents. Is this a general issue with Frenos Iruna brake components or is it specific to Morgan? Either way it will create many headaches for Customers, Dealers and MMC alike.

The fundamental question is going to be how quickly can the recall work be completed even when parts have been sourced? As of today 8th June I was advised by MMC there are no parts in stock, presumably any they may have are deemed to be faulty, and with an average lead time for service work between 8 and 12 weeks we can kiss goodbye to our summer of fun in the MOG! :-(

Let us hope there is some remedial measure we can take, monitor brake fluid levels for example to enable us to continue to enjoy the idiosyncrasies of Morgan ownership without the risk of brake failure added to them!
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 04:25 PM

You would hope the dealer could give those affected a loan vehicle even if a trad to cover the gap, but I expect not.
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 04:51 PM

Dealer feedback - it’s a leaking seal at fault - one car suffered brake loss with a few others having longer brake travel.
MMC considering solutions and to update CX owners asap.
Posted By: AndyMog57

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 04:58 PM

Re: insurance validity:

Unlikely. If the DVSA have issued a 'do not use' notice and you have an accident in the car, you will have presented your insurance company with an instant 'get-out-of-jail-free' card.
Posted By: flyfisher

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 05:42 PM

Btw the Recall is a Safety Recall not a Stop Recall. So according to the Gov advise you could still drive the car with a safety recall, it’s only Morgan’s guidance of do not drive..

PREMATURE DEGRADATION OF THE RUBBER SEALS IN THE BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER
Recall number
R/2022/168
Recall date
01-06-2022
Recall type
Safety recall

Reason for recall
Investigations have identified premature degradation of the rubber seal(s) in the brake master cylinder compromising brake performance and in extreme cases causing brake failure.

How to check if the vehicle is recalled
Contact the local MORGAN dealership or manufacturer. You will not need to pay for anything involving the recall.

How the manufacturer will repair
Replacement of the master cylinder or the master cylinder seals.

Number of affected vehicles
1274
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 05:45 PM

One Anglemog member has confirmed the issue & MMC recall to me. So all CXs are sadly grounded or maybe not, if I owned one I would check my insurance before driving it. Not a good day for us or MMC but better safe than sorry.
Posted By: Lordofthewings

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
What MMC does not need right now is more negativity being spread

It may not be everyone's experience, but typically at Board level the first three questions to the CEO should be:
What are you going to do about it ?
How long will it take ?
How much will it cost ?
If the Board don't ask those questions, then change the Board.

Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Lordofthewings
Originally Posted by +8Rich
What MMC does not need right now is more negativity being spread

It may not be everyone's experience, but typically at Board level the first three questions to the CEO should be:
What are you going to do about it ?
How long will it take ?
How much will it cost ?
If the Board don't ask those questions, then change the Board.


I have every confidence that those questions will have been asked and addressed by the MMC board which was my point.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Lordofthewings
Originally Posted by +8Rich
What MMC does not need right now is more negativity being spread

It may not be everyone's experience, but typically at Board level the first three questions to the CEO should be:
What are you going to do about it ?
How long will it take ?
How much will it cost ?
If the Board don't ask those questions, then change the Board.


I have every confidence that those questions will have been asked and addressed by the MMC board which was my point.


Agreed.

Problem identified (third party product failure). Solution engineered.. All those affected are being contacted, cars recalled and fixed FOC. Think the Board and CEO have done everything they need to, especially considering the failure is not of their making, and put the best solution in place.

I'm sure there will some who will attempt to gain some form of compensation, but that's the nature of todays culture. Where there's blame, there's a claim.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 07:07 PM

The annual Mog in only 2 weeks
Le Mans Classic the week after...

I feel really sorry for any CX owners booked on those, it couldn't have come at a worse time
Posted By: aerotaff

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 07:20 PM

Although now Mogless my wife and I are doing a eleven car run on Sunday for Deva mog and they plan on staying a week, when we did a run last year there were at least three new plus fours they are travelling a long way from the Cheshire area to sunny Pembrokeshire so some may have left already. What an absolute bugger so sorry for you guys at least they owned up to the problem which is a change for Morgan.....
Posted By: gaston

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/06/22 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by aerotaff
at least they owned up to the problem which is a change for Morgan.....


Yes, times are changing. I find the approach positive.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 03:01 AM

I am about to arrive back at LHR from LAX and my ML63 is waiting for me, with the brake recall highlighted above. Typical.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61701235

I guess this means driving it to the dealer carefully and getting the good lady to pick me up. Well it can only improve the economy and it could do with that!
Posted By: Luddite

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 05:58 AM

Seems that Morgan are not alone in having brake recall issues...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/...ne-million-suv-models-over-braking-fault
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by +8Rich

What MMC does not need right now is more negativity being spread at this very difficult moment - just saying thumbs

Exactly that Rich! smile
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by Graham, G4FUJ
Originally Posted by +8Rich

What MMC does not need right now is more negativity being spread at this very difficult moment - just saying thumbs

Exactly that Rich! smile


Especially when it's not a negative story anyway. Potential problem with 3rd-party supplied component detected. Solution identified, cars quickly recalled for fix to be applied. Sounds to me like a big pat on the back for MMC is needed here, rather than any slagging off.
Posted By: BuyBritish

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 07:05 AM

I think its time that those of us who are experienced in the rebuild and repair of Morgan cars especially rebuilt braking systems could offer our services to get MMC and our MSCC owners out of this issue, perhaps a number of us could work nights at the dealers to get the cars fixed for our members.
These times are when MMC and our dealers need us more than ever.
Posted By: Alan Patterson

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Well if they have instructed you NOT to drive it MMC is duty bound to trailer it to the factory or more likely your local dealer will pick it up to complete the work.
God help anyone currently on tour then...

We were on a Hopmog event when one of our members got the message. He tried to arrange for the AA to trailer it home, but was told "it's not a breakdown". He ended up having to pay to get it back. Will MMC pay for that............
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 07:22 AM

Very unfortunate set of circumstances for all involved especially at this time of year. I wish everyone well and the problem is permanently fixed as quickly and as painlessly (inconvenience) for all concerned.

Personally I wouldn't drive a car when the manufacturer has advised not to drive, besides the potential legal issues, insurance questions etc. I wouldn't put myself, my family and others at risk especially when you know it is a brake related issue that may lead to total failure.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by BuyBritish
I think its time that those of us who are experienced in the rebuild and repair of Morgan cars especially rebuilt braking systems could offer our services to get MMC and our MSCC owners out of this issue, perhaps a number of us could work nights at the dealers to get the cars fixed for our members.
These times are when MMC and our dealers need us more than ever.


As much as the sentiment is admirable and should be applauded, I think that would be an absolute nightmare for the dealers. Also if I was a CX owner, I would want the work completed by an formally acredited and certificated brake specialist.

Personally, as much as I'm happy to replace lines, slaves, master etc on my Trad, the canbus/ECU/black box fitted modern cars would be a bridge too far. Peter's recent experience with his brake lights show the complexity of these systems and what can go wrong.
Posted By: Ian Wegg

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Especially when it's not a negative story anyway. Potential problem with 3rd-party supplied component detected. Solution identified, cars quickly recalled for fix to be applied. Sounds to me like a big pat on the back for MMC is needed here, rather than any slagging off.

My feeling exactly, it's a safety recall dealt with through the prescribed process, it happens all the time. The Mercedes recall referenced earlier is just as serious, if not more so. My son's Honda Accord currently has a recall that warns him of the possibility of "serious injury or death" until he gets it fixed.

I appreciate the concern of CX owners but I think there is a danger of getting this news a little out of proportion.
Posted By: sospan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 08:44 AM

Under a recall there is an implied necessity for the work to be done by a certified dealer. This covers any future issues that might arise. It MIGHT be possible for specialist garages to do the work so the now ex dealers might be included to increase options for remedial work. Basically, will it might be acceptable for selected independent garages to help. We know that there are several excellent such places.
Will MMC go down that route? The indie garages might welcome the extra work.
This is not a job for “enthusiastic amateurs” as the recall sets a legal hurdle.
I’ve replaced callipers on my trad ( found the new calliper mounting point holes too small! Manufacturer error). The supplier found his stock affected too. The fix was straight forward, basically reaming out.
I have had a seized calliper and replaced seals, one of the originals was at fault, deteriorated surface. OK after that.
Car checked on a brake test rolling road. What makes newer cars more complex to do is the inter-linked systems that are monitored by the car. ABS, pressure detecting systems etc.
Even my 2002 Plus8 has an oil pressure sensor that is linked to the ecu. A separate second one for the gauge as well that I had to change.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 09:09 AM

I suspect the financial pain for this will fall on their component supplier.
I was going to test drive a PlusSix on Saturday, no longer.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Alan Patterson
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Well if they have instructed you NOT to drive it MMC is duty bound to trailer it to the factory or more likely your local dealer will pick it up to complete the work.
God help anyone currently on tour then...

We were on a Hopmog event when one of our members got the message. He tried to arrange for the AA to trailer it home, but was told "it's not a breakdown". He ended up having to pay to get it back. Will MMC pay for that............

I imagine a lot will rest on whether they contacted MMC or their dealer and explained their predicament.
If they decided independently I would think it unlikely, but who knows as the company are handling this all very professionally so far.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by TBM
Originally Posted by BuyBritish
I think its time that those of us who are experienced in the rebuild and repair of Morgan cars especially rebuilt braking systems could offer our services to get MMC and our MSCC owners out of this issue, perhaps a number of us could work nights at the dealers to get the cars fixed for our members.
These times are when MMC and our dealers need us more than ever.


As much as the sentiment is admirable and should be applauded, I think that would be an absolute nightmare for the dealers. Also if I was a CX owner, I would want the work completed by an formally acredited and certificated brake specialist.

Personally, as much as I'm happy to replace lines, slaves, master etc on my Trad, the canbus/ECU/black box fitted modern cars would be a bridge too far. Peter's recent experience with his brake lights show the complexity of these systems and what can go wrong.




Well put, I would be of the same opinion, I would want the remedial work completed by a factory accredited facility.
Posted By: MikeFromPembroke

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 12:47 PM


As predicted, See response from Heritage insurance.


The insurers have advised that you should not drive the vehicle as you are aware of a safety recall which could bring its road worthiness into question. If you were to continue to drive the vehicle and this fault caused an accident, you would be in breach of the policy terms and conditions and risk not being insured for the event.

They have advised you would be covered to drive your vehicle to a pre booked safety recall appointment only until the issue has been rectified.

Please don’t hesitate to contact me should you require any further advice.”

Mike
Posted By: Alan Patterson

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Alan Patterson
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Well if they have instructed you NOT to drive it MMC is duty bound to trailer it to the factory or more likely your local dealer will pick it up to complete the work.
God help anyone currently on tour then...

We were on a Hopmog event when one of our members got the message. He tried to arrange for the AA to trailer it home, but was told "it's not a breakdown". He ended up having to pay to get it back. Will MMC pay for that............

I imagine a lot will rest on whether they contacted MMC or their dealer and explained their predicament.
If they decided independently I would think it unlikely, but who knows as the company are handling this all very professionally so far.

They did seek advice from their dealer.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Alan Patterson
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Alan Patterson
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Well if they have instructed you NOT to drive it MMC is duty bound to trailer it to the factory or more likely your local dealer will pick it up to complete the work.
God help anyone currently on tour then...

We were on a Hopmog event when one of our members got the message. He tried to arrange for the AA to trailer it home, but was told "it's not a breakdown". He ended up having to pay to get it back. Will MMC pay for that............

I imagine a lot will rest on whether they contacted MMC or their dealer and explained their predicament.
If they decided independently I would think it unlikely, but who knows as the company are handling this all very professionally so far.

They did seek advice from their dealer.

I wish them luck with a claim and a speedy rectification before the summer slips away.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Alan Patterson
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Alan Patterson
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Well if they have instructed you NOT to drive it MMC is duty bound to trailer it to the factory or more likely your local dealer will pick it up to complete the work.
God help anyone currently on tour then...

We were on a Hopmog event when one of our members got the message. He tried to arrange for the AA to trailer it home, but was told "it's not a breakdown". He ended up having to pay to get it back. Will MMC pay for that............

I imagine a lot will rest on whether they contacted MMC or their dealer and explained their predicament.
If they decided independently I would think it unlikely, but who knows as the company are handling this all very professionally so far.

They did seek advice from their dealer.


One would assume the discussion on reimbursement was had with the dealer at the time. I'd have probably asked for written confirmation before I arranged collection. I would have thought it would have been easier/cheaper/quicker to get the car recovered directly to the dealer, and then arrange transport home from there.
Posted By: SBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Peter J

I was going to test drive a PlusSix on Saturday, no longer.


That's just God telling you to keep Tarka..
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 06:02 PM

Brakes are safety critical BUT it seems from one failure and a couple of others where the pedal has gone soft the reaction from MMC is to advise not to drive any CX cars at all, rather than suggest a visual inspection for fluid level or leaks first by the owner! Knee jerk reaction? Are they shooting themselves in the foot here, as logistics of trailering every car to a dealer is mind boggling.

And then we have insurance companies and DV agency intimating it would be ok just to drive it to get it repaired. A direct conflict with MMC’s advice.
The master cylinder has a batch number on it (LOTE No.****)…is it maybe a particular batch only that is affected. Either way, there will be a good proportion of owners who will now insist on trailering for repairs even if it turns out to be not as bad as expected. I expected by today to see the results of yesterday’s dealer meeting and details of remedial action…but it seems to have gone quiet!
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Stringers Best Mate
Originally Posted by Peter J

I was going to test drive a PlusSix on Saturday, no longer.


That's just God telling you to keep Tarka..

Frying pans and fire came to mind!
Posted By: Julian BB

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/06/22 10:07 PM

I'd imagine that the dealer network is close to meltdown at the moment!!!
There aren't very many of them nowadays for various reasons.....(!)
Most are pretty small, oldschool operations, who are busy servicing their usual client base and are busy enough to not need a massive CX brake recall.
They can't afford to turn away regular work and they can't not do the recall work.
I'd have thought that the factory will have to step in do the lions share of the work.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/06/22 07:54 AM

I'm sure MMC has considered long and hard it's advice to owners understanding the implications for its dealer network, owners etc. and it appears many people naturally are trying to second guess the advice. Whilst it may be very inconvenient and poor timing most owners are not solely reliant upon their Morgan as their main means of transport, that doesn't detract from the real issue of getting them fixed may represent. If this had happened to me, I would be pretty pissed off especially coming up to the main holiday season and all the planned summer events.

I'm just about to head off on a trip around Ireland in 10 days time planned in my Morgan, the long range weather forecast is pretty crap with predicted Atlantic storms and it looks like the hood will never be down all the time we are there, and there's nothing worse in my humble opinion than being stuck hood up in warm heavy rain for days on end in a Morgan even with air conditioning, Closer to the time if the forecast holds true I'll just go across in the Merc, yes it may be slightly disappointing if we don't use the Morgan as its for touring hols away we bought it, but its more important to enjoy ourselves with friends and family than worry about what conveyed us there. There will be other future opportunities to get the Morgan out and enjoy a long trip in it.

However, if your insurance is not in effect and you continue to drive, you are driving uninsured which is a criminal offence and should you be involved in a serious accident then further more serious charges may arise, that's ignoring the potential civil actions that may ensue. It's just not worth the risk, not withstanding how annoying and frustrating it all is, and unfortunately how long it's going to take to roll the programme of repairs out.

Posted By: JMD

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/06/22 08:20 AM

Once you know there is a potential safety issue, you enter a huge potential exposure...MMC (and I suspect driven by their owners) have done the only thing a relatively small enterprise can do and played it very safe.

This is very similar to the small scope problem with the brake pedal on v early M3Ws that happened a few years ago (we were affected and had the same "do not drive until fixed" advice....albeit, the dealers were not so promptly told about it on that occasion).

A bigger deeper pocketed business might take more risk if they had evidence a problem was unlikely to create a number of serious incidents (which I understand this has not (yet) done for CX cars)

Hope the dealers can sort this for CX owners reasonably quickly
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/06/22 09:30 AM

I hope that the engineering detail of this emerges, so we know what the issue is.

It hints at master cylinder seals, but that's only my assumption.

Whatever needs attention, means sourcing enough components to deal with every CX, so that might add delay. And how will that impact on production?
Posted By: Ian Wegg

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/06/22 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by DaveW
I hope that the engineering detail of this emerges, so we know what the issue is.

It hints at master cylinder seals, but that's only my assumption.


You assume correctly Dave! The details are on the DVSA website: PREMATURE DEGRADATION OF THE RUBBER SEALS IN THE BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER

Reason for recall
Investigations have identified premature degradation of the rubber seal(s) in the brake master cylinder compromising brake performance and in extreme cases causing brake failure.

How to check if the vehicle is recalled
Contact the local MORGAN dealership or manufacturer. You will not need to pay for anything involving the recall.

How the manufacturer will repair
Replacement of the master cylinder or the master cylinder seals.

Number of affected vehicles
1274

(Note that the site asks you to specify Plus Four or Plus Six and year of manufacture, but the details are always the same).
Posted By: Soleng

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/06/22 10:32 AM

A different but related recall was made some years ago due to low quality
Chinese-made Girling reproduction master-cylinders for classic cars.
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/06/22 11:25 AM

So replacement master cylinder or seals then...

OK... so same seals replaced might well cause the issue to recur, if the cause is the machining of the bore.

If the cause is the spec of the seals, that's harder to understand since brake seals tech is old school.

Either way this is going to run for a while. I wonder if the same m/cyl is used on the Super 3?
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/06/22 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Luddite
Seems that Morgan are not alone in having brake recall issues...
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/...ne-million-suv-models-over-braking-fault



Well that makes a change, having the AMG version benefits! Apparently the Brembo brakes fitted to the super lump turbo are not subject to the recall.
Sorry for all you CX owners not being able to enjoy yourselves in this lovely weather.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/06/22 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by DaveW
So replacement master cylinder or seals then...

OK... so same seals replaced might well cause the issue to recur, if the cause is the machining of the bore.

If the cause is the spec of the seals, that's harder to understand since brake seals tech is old school.

Either way this is going to run for a while. I wonder if the same m/cyl is used on the Super 3?


Value engineering at its best?
Master cylinders are not exactly Modern technology and failure t 2 to 3 years is simply unacceptable.
Whoever signed off the supplier should be let go.

It will be interesting to see who the supplier of these parts is...(was?)
It smells to me of buying the cheapest master cylinder available.
A quick web search suggests that replacement master cylinders from Brembo are less than £150.00... "no name" are as little as £40.00!


At least the CX master cylinder is accessible, unlike the Aero chassis cars.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/06/22 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Stringers Best Mate
Originally Posted by Peter J

I was going to test drive a PlusSix on Saturday, no longer.


That's just God telling you to keep Tarka..


Exactly, and I'll listen !
Posted By: Arwyn Williams

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/06/22 05:24 PM

The master cylinder seals in my 1971 4/4 lasted from 1971 to 2010 until they needed replacement! Just saying......

Arwyn
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/06/22 09:03 PM

To me this appears to be a machined casting of inadequate design and engineering.

If I had CX, as soon as the warranty was up I would be looking for a quality replacement. I guess some enterprising specialist will be on this already.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/06/22 09:05 PM

The brake servo is high up on the bulkhead. So I guess the linkage from the pedal is complex
Posted By: NZPlusSix

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 11:37 AM

IMPORTANT – STOP DRIVE VEHICLE SAFETY RECALL – Morgan
Yes like other CX chassis Morgan owners I got the safety recall notice – four times to date!
While investigating our 2019 Plus Six soft brake pedal and excessive brake pedal travel problem it was discovered that the brake fluid temperature was excessively high. The source of the problem was the heating of the master cylinder due to the close proximity of the master cylinder to the exhaust manifold. I’m sure that this high temperature will be the reason for the failure of the rubber seals. My technician recommended the fitting of a heat shield between the master cylinder and the exhaust manifold.
Hence TWO years I informed our UK dealer of the problem and asked if Morgan was aware of the problem and a solution. Since then silence until today! The present situation is one that could have been avoided years ago!
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 12:08 PM

This could maybe be the problem but i have a left hand drive plus four and since i have the car i have the same complain about the travel and the softness of the brake pedal. The exhaust is rightside but the master cylindre is leftside. One month after the reception of my car i bypassed my dealer and send a mail to the factory . The answer was to contact my dealer first and the plus four was very safe and the braking sufficient for the car.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 01:43 PM

I have driven 3 CX cars. Two Plus Fours & a Plud Six all had a very long travel on the brake pedal. I can't why this is heat given how close the Roadster brake servo is to the exhaust & how far away the CX one is.
Posted By: p8mog

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 02:11 PM

I’ve always had a problem with the brake pedal, on my Plus Four Auto, put your foot on the brake pedal to start and the pedal is high, as soon as it starts it drops just over 2”.
The factory have tried a new master cylinder and booster, but to no avail, also the booster pushrod on some may not have any threadlocker on them. So the heat is not a problem for me.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by p8mog
I’ve always had a problem with the brake pedal, on my Plus Four Auto, put your foot on the brake pedal to start and the pedal is high, as soon as it starts it drops just over 2”.
The factory have tried a new master cylinder and booster, but to no avail, also the booster pushrod on some may not have any threadlocker on them. So the heat is not a problem for me.

That's interesting, there is a sequence of tests for a servo that exhibits the symptom of long travel on the second press, would have to look it up, but IIRC you test the difference between engine off vs on, as it could be a vacuum fault
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 03:33 PM

The master cylinder on an Aero Chassis Plus 8 is barely 10cm from the catalyst... BUT it is wrapped in heat shielding material, as is the cat.
After 9 years and close to 46,000 miles the brakes are as good as ever.
So how did MMC end up with heat degradation of the master cylinder seals?
I took a look at a Plus 6 master cylinder: no branding on either side or the top.
I stand by my original statement, value engineering, made worse by poor engineering design.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 03:58 PM

I understood from one dealer the brakes are unique to Morgan.
Posted By: Donny T

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 04:36 PM

I’ve owned a six for over a year now, third radiator, now the do not drive brake issue.
My car todate has travelled over 900 miles on the back of a low loader having fault fix, Well say fixed more bodged together buying time,
My dealer says MMC has no idea whats wrong and when a fix will come. Don’t know about everyone else but my thinking is the product is not fit for purpose and maybe time for handing back and getting a refund.??
Posted By: p8mog

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 05:00 PM

I’ve thought about handing back the car, it’s been in my possession 17 months and 37 weeks of which 4 with the dealer and the rest at the factory for a raft of repairs and now the clock is ticking again, and I still has a few jobs to be done.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 05:24 PM

I think sadly this is going to be a very bad for MMC. They decided to join the big boys driven by venture capital but they may have damaged the brand by this.
We all need to hope they fix it fast & definitely
Posted By: flyfisher

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 05:50 PM

Isn’t the fix a new branded brake master cylinder which an existing manufacturer uses so spares in future are available and is tried and tested? Maybe a trip to a motor factors and fining the closest match then modify to fit?

That would be the quick and simple solution if it’s the case of a new master cylinder rather than seals… or would type approval prevent that?
Posted By: p8mog

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 06:05 PM

It’s not just a Master Cylinder, it’s also the Brake Booster,……So the pedal box has to lineup with the booster and the booster and pin has to match the depth of the master cylinder and then I would imagine type approval would be needed. But I could be wrong.🤯
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by John V6
I understood from one dealer the brakes are unique to Morgan.


Very probably true.

The CX brake servo and master cylinder are made by this company...

Iruna Brakes Pvt Ltd of Chennai, India. They have been making brakes since 2013.

Which demented idiot in Malvern made that call? I spent 20 years trying to source chemicals from India. It is not something for the faint hearted. Yes, they can be cheap...and good... but there are collateral issues, mostly to do with consistency!
The Indians are really good at providing samples that are really excellent, but then things change.

Unless and until MMC changes their supplier they won't sell many more CX cars.... This is going to cost them dear.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 07:10 PM

If you are selling a premium product and asking for a premium price then use premium parts.

Such a significant part would indicate the risk of selection of a replacement and approval, that would be a delay that Morgan have no control over and so no date being shared. I doubt the factory is enjoying this and looking to cause delay.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 07:22 PM

You CX boys and girls have my utmost sympathy, this is pretty poor penny pinching if what I read is true on here.

I really hope MMC get this right this time as their future is very much hanging on their correct and timely response.

No more "they all do that Sir" at this place in the market, these new customers expect quite rightly for a car that works, they have transitioned from enthusiastic amateurs to professional car producers with these prices and need to catch up in certain areas.

Someone should be in for a monumental arse kicking over this and the still unresolved radiator failure issues, I believe the Plus Six first appeared in 2019 so three years ago now.
Posted By: Grump

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 07:46 PM

Brake company was formed in Spain in 1958. Indian factory set up in 2013.
They appear to supply some High Profile companies.
Posted By: p8mog

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 08:28 PM

I personally feel that the callipers may have faults, as we know the first car’s ( mine included ) had to have the callipers turned upside down to stop the squeal, mine was also only biting more on the floating side, when the factory investigated it had bents pins that hold the pads, plus the floating mechanism isn’t the best.
And It still bites more on the floating side.

Has anyone in the Plus Four world had the ABS working, I’ve had to do a few emergency stops ( Deer/Pheasants - which can really ruin a windscreen) and no machine gun going off.
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/06/22 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Grump
Brake company was formed in Spain in 1958. Indian factory set up in 2013.
They appear to supply some High Profile companies.

Agree brake company Iruna is Spanish but the master cylinder on my friend’s plus four is also stamped made in CEE, which I believe to be central and eastern europe, so takes in eastern bloc and Baltic state companies but wouldn’t have thought it included India?
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/06/22 06:38 AM

never
Posted By: Donny T

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/06/22 10:22 AM

Not so much made in Uk, but more assembled in UK and like so many things you are only as good as the sum of the parts,
Maybe if they stop looking at the bottom line and more at quality they would do better.
After all as top car companies will tell you,with quality the bottom line follows.
No point in charging top price if you have to give it all back in warranty.
I’m sorry to say that after having Morgans in my life for 40 + years the end maybe coming.
Simply put they cannot make a car for me to buy.
Posted By: Soleng

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/06/22 10:38 AM

Given their cooperation with BMW, I am surprised they didn't use Brembo main cylinders and calipers from the BMW 3-series. Alternatively, I am sure Ford also has parts that could have been used. For future owners mass-produced parts make sourcing of parts much easier.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/06/22 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Soleng
Given their cooperation with BMW, I am surprised they didn't use Brembo main cylinders and calipers from the BMW 3-series. Alternatively, I am sure Ford also has parts that could have been used. For future owners mass-produced parts make sourcing of parts much easier.


But is that the intention/policy of Morgan regarding spare parts supply, which is often very profitable for the manufacturer with massive price uplifts all helping the bottom line. Unique bespoke parts (rather than readily available generic parts from other mass producers) may increase potential spares sales, resultant revenues and profits.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/06/22 01:40 PM

This is a photo of the offending parts.

[Linked Image]

It sits just under the bonnet, above the footwell and couldn't be more accessible. Talking to one of the Team at Williams they estimate 2 hours labour to remove, replace and set up a master cylinder.

If I spend £90,000 on a car I want to see a premium brand on the brakes, the Aero Cars all have AP Racing, which is as good a brand as it gets: they are owned by Brembo. Virtually all European premium sports cars use Brembo or AP Racing brakes.

As has been said the supplier is Spanish, and with a significant Indian manufacturing capability. The main image on their website is of a tractor.... not a car. From a press release issued by them a few years ago...

"Frenos Iruna designs, develops and manufactures brake components systems for automotive and off-highway vehicles mostly related to agricultural and public works like tractors, excavators, dumpers and forest machinery, among others"

Really?

I did a few web searches to see if I could find details of their main customers. I didn't get anything.
Posted By: *PocketT08

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/06/22 02:02 PM

Yes, I totally agree, my 4/4 was built in 1987 and I've owned her almost from new for 33 year and she's still an original and unrestored car - I don't think that I would risk spending money on changing a tried and trusted car to ' NEW '
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/06/22 03:03 PM


Originally Posted by *PocketT08
Yes, I totally agree, my 4/4 was built in 1987 and I've owned her almost from new for 33 year and she's still an original and unrestored car - I don't think that I would risk spending money on changing a tried and trusted car to ' NEW '


I've always felt that Morgans perhaps more than any other affordable car get better with age as you learn all about their individual foibles. Even if I could afford it, I'd be loath to start a new relationship with a car now, I'd feel like I was betraying my old thing.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/06/22 05:56 PM

There is another thing that needs to be considered here, for the LONG term ownership of these cars in the same way the Trad's are cherished.

As mentioned above there is an element of owning the parts process to protect the revenue for the lifetime of the car. However selection of easier to find parts will be far better for the long term availability of the cars.

Instead of unbranded parts from odd suppliers the choice of common suppliers would be far better. It would also raise the quality of the brand. Whilst all the normal ML's needed new parts the Brembo based AMG cars did not.

On the Series 2 the problems with the rear ABS sensors and rings were identified by my local BMW garage engineer. It meant that access to spares is easy in the future. Whilst I appreciate that the Plus range are a big price step up and so a risk for Morgan it feels like an imbalance.

Some of the issues we see with the Aero cars (window lifters, air con etc) are down to sourcing and will limit the cars long term future. Or maybe that is there goal, to stimulate new sales, that would be sad.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/06/22 06:17 PM

It is going to be quite interesting watching the prices of the CX cars in the light of these recent failures, already we have seen dealers discounting unmoved stock.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/06/22 06:27 PM

Even if they do sell them at a reduced price they can't move them anyway.......ironic.
Posted By: SimonH

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/06/22 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Alistair
There is another thing that needs to be considered here, for the LONG term ownership of these cars in the same way the Trad's are cherished.

As mentioned above there is an element of owning the parts process to protect the revenue for the lifetime of the car. However selection of easier to find parts will be far better for the long term availability of the cars.

Instead of unbranded parts from odd suppliers the choice of common suppliers would be far better. It would also raise the quality of the brand. Whilst all the normal ML's needed new parts the Brembo based AMG cars did not.

On the Series 2 the problems with the rear ABS sensors and rings were identified by my local BMW garage engineer. It meant that access to spares is easy in the future. Whilst I appreciate that the Plus range are a big price step up and so a risk for Morgan it feels like an imbalance.

Some of the issues we see with the Aero cars (window lifters, air con etc) are down to sourcing and will limit the cars long term future. Or maybe that is there goal, to stimulate new sales, that would be sad.


The CX brake suppliers are the remnants of Caparo/Lockheed which were Indian owned- so hardly a spurious supply chain

WRT the Aero series cars I’m trying my best to source and keep the spares on the shelf. I’ve got most of the S1 wear and tear parts in stock
The biggest issues are going to be the “black boxes”. Most of the S1 stuff was bespoke- and in potted sealed boxes so really difficult to reverse engineer . The chemicals to remove epoxy potting are pretty nasty- and can damage the circuits inside

I’ve already been asked by the dealer chain to look into the CX radiators
And the factory send me Aero S1 parts requests….
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/06/22 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Alistair
Even if they do sell them at a reduced price they can't move them anyway.......ironic.

Like the M3W I can see the keener customers seeking a "Bleazey" properly engineered solution to this problem whilst the procrastination continues, life is short and fly's by in a Plus series car...
Posted By: Luddite

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/06/22 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by SimonH
Originally Posted by Alistair
There is another thing that needs to be considered here, for the LONG term ownership of these cars in the same way the Trad's are cherished.

As mentioned above there is an element of owning the parts process to protect the revenue for the lifetime of the car. However selection of easier to find parts will be far better for the long term availability of the cars.

Instead of unbranded parts from odd suppliers the choice of common suppliers would be far better. It would also raise the quality of the brand. Whilst all the normal ML's needed new parts the Brembo based AMG cars did not.

On the Series 2 the problems with the rear ABS sensors and rings were identified by my local BMW garage engineer. It meant that access to spares is easy in the future. Whilst I appreciate that the Plus range are a big price step up and so a risk for Morgan it feels like an imbalance.

Some of the issues we see with the Aero cars (window lifters, air con etc) are down to sourcing and will limit the cars long term future. Or maybe that is there goal, to stimulate new sales, that would be sad.


The CX brake suppliers are the remnants of Caparo/Lockheed which were Indian owned- so hardly a spurious supply chain

WRT the Aero series cars I’m trying my best to source and keep the spares on the shelf. I’ve got most of the S1 wear and tear parts in stock
The biggest issues are going to be the “black boxes”. Most of the S1 stuff was bespoke- and in potted sealed boxes so really difficult to reverse engineer . The chemicals to remove epoxy potting are pretty nasty- and can damage the circuits inside

I’ve already been asked by the dealer chain to look into the CX radiators
And the factory send me Aero S1 parts requests….


As originally posted by Alistair Re the ABS Sensors and reluctor rings as identified by his mechanic as being other than an MMC manufactured item, it was suggested to me many years back that the MMC would raid major motor manufacturers out of date stock to find parts to incorporate in the manufacture of new Morgans... Around the time I was buying my mid 80`s +8 20 years ago I was told that some of the rear brake parts were originally Ford Zephyr or some such a vehicle which had long since ceased production... and in that respect I think Lorne spent quite some time researching Morgan parts in the hope of providing alternative sources of parts for Morganeers.

Some time back I spent some time checking out local parts suppliers, buying kit such as a spare old style instrument voltage regulator along with rubber brake seals and diaphragms for my Stromberg carbs, and where available complete clutch and brake cylinders, even a spare rev counter.. Apparently the parts suppliers were giving up on stocking seals as there was a dropping demand for them given it seems the trade was more inclined to fit replacement units as complete assemblies..?

My +8 it of pretty simple construction, as for the number of spares and cost to try to ensure long term functionality of digitally driven vehicles on the road, I hope someone with the drive and ambition of Lorne to help keep Morgans on the road comes along in time..
Posted By: JMD

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 06:30 AM

Long term ownership is an increaing challenge with far more complex systems in cars and it seems with Morgan, quite a bit of cobbling together of CANBUS systems and a complex mix of parts/suppliers.

The now 10 year old (recently discontinued M3W is a case in point...the engine supplier S&S has walked away from the X-Wedge with no clarity on future parts supply...supply of custom parts (steering rack/bevel box/clutch) which Morgan has banned suppliers from selling to anybody else to maximise spares income is haphazard. Thank goodness for the enthusiasm of a few ownwers and the community...Phil Bleazey and Ian Brett are particular stars with the alternate part list being an absolute must have...
Posted By: DRR

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 07:44 AM

Being a Plus Four owner, obviously the concern is safety, but I hope MMC soon advise us of the proposed action.

For me, if it is a seal or master cylinder replacement like for like, without a redesign, if it is known that it was not just a batch of faulty seals, then I cannot see the problem being resolved.

I would hope that MMC update us this week with some sort of remedial programme. I would rather know my car was off the road for 2 months or more than sat day by day thinking it is an easy couple of weeks fix.
Posted By: MikeFromPembroke

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 08:45 AM

Hopefully some more information will be forthcoming this week, an indication of timescale would be very helpful.
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 08:47 AM

With the benefit of hindsight, right from the start, road testers were finding CX brakes to have long travel and on the soft side. It was thought to be a design element, but now seems more likely to be linked to the master cylinder issues.

Nobody expected either the brake problems or the radiator problems, neither of which should be issues on a new design. And as a layperson, it's hard to see why the radiator leaks are continuing.

The question is, is new CX production continuing with radiators which are likely to leak and master cylinders which are likely to fail?

I really hope that MMC get both issues sorted soon. Once out of warranty, it becomes a long term liability for the owner.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by DaveW
With the benefit of hindsight, right from the start, road testers were finding CX brakes to have long travel and on the soft side. It was thought to be a design element, but now seems more likely to be linked to the master cylinder issues.

Nobody expected either the brake problems or the radiator problems, neither of which should be issues on a new design. And as a layperson, it's hard to see why the radiator leaks are continuing.

The question is, is new CX production continuing with radiators which are likely to leak and master cylinders which are likely to fail?

I really hope that MMC get both issues sorted soon. Once out of warranty, it becomes a long term liability for the owner.

Amen...
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 11:38 AM

here the response of the factory on the 04/02/2021

here is the response of the factory about the feeling of the brake pedal:

The brakes on 21MY pass all EU braking tests & are perfectly suitable for the performance of the vehicle. In response to customer feedback on brake pedal travel, we have changed brake suppliers for the 22MY vehicles.

I hope this helpful.

Kind Regards,
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by thierry242
here the response of the factory on the 04/02/2021

here is the response of the factory about the feeling of the brake pedal:

The brakes on 21MY pass all EU braking tests & are perfectly suitable for the performance of the vehicle. In response to customer feedback on brake pedal travel, we have changed brake suppliers for the 22MY vehicles.

I hope this helpful.

Kind Regards,


If that is the case, could it be that some of the CX models are not affected?
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 01:12 PM

If so that's a positive development, but owners still have to establish which MY CX they own, and presumably get it cleared by a dealer?
Posted By: RobP6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 01:28 PM

What is the monthly cost in terms of loss of facility in the key summer months in not having access to your plus six? insurance , tax , depreciation use of alternative vehicle probably 1K per month??
P6Rob
Posted By: SimonH

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by DaveW
If so that's a positive development, but owners still have to establish which MY CX they own, and presumably get it cleared by a dealer?


In my experience MMC don't have a clear cut date between parts substitutions....
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by SimonH
Originally Posted by DaveW
If so that's a positive development, but owners still have to establish which MY CX they own, and presumably get it cleared by a dealer?


In my experience MMC don't have a clear cut date between parts substitutions....


Exactly this......everything is a blurrrrrrrrr.......
Posted By: SBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Alistair
Even if they do sell them at a reduced price they can't move them anyway.......ironic.

Like the M3W I can see the keener customers seeking a "Bleazey" properly engineered solution to this problem whilst the procrastination continues, life is short and fly's by in a Plus series car...


I don't wish to capitalise on folks woes, but the M3W stalwarts must be hurting trying not to chortle..! It's history repeating itself all over again. The work and heartache the MTWC and the likes of Mr B have invested in simply ensuring safety and reliability long term is to be applauded.

Unfortunately as has been said, keep replacing until someone else engineers a solution is a cheaper option....for now....

The whole thing is just too sad to be funny.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 03:14 PM

Yet people i know with either model have the recall
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Stringers Best Mate
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Alistair
Even if they do sell them at a reduced price they can't move them anyway.......ironic.

Like the M3W I can see the keener customers seeking a "Bleazey" properly engineered solution to this problem whilst the procrastination continues, life is short and fly's by in a Plus series car...


I don't wish to capitalise on folks woes, but the M3W stalwarts must be hurting trying not to chortle..! It's history repeating itself all over again. The work and heartache the MTWC and the likes of Mr B have invested in simply ensuring safety and reliability long term is to be applauded.

Unfortunately as has been said, keep replacing until someone else engineers a solution is a cheaper option....for now....

The whole thing is just too sad to be funny.

Absolutely, it just sucks all the joy out of ownership this kind of uncertainty and as you say to see this happening once again is really sad.

The radiator change appears to be a half day job so out of warranty, not a thing you want.
Posted By: Donny T

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 04:17 PM

The factory is still making the same cars with the same radiator.Their take is simple
“They are not all failing “ it’s a joke.They have not found the radiator problem for which they have known about well over a year. I personally know people who have had five rads.
Now the brakes.where and when is the fix, this year, next year,sometime never.
For the factory its all about money
My personal take is simple, give me the car I paid for or my money back. I now will miss classic and mog fest plus I have not been to a single mog meeting this year due to car been laid up.
At best I think we should all ask for compensation and if they don’t offer answers soon my car will be going back.
Already spoke to solicitor and they don’t have a leg to stand on,
We all take this rubbish because it’s a Morgan!!! Would you stand it with any other car brand?
Sorry gents rant over
Posted By: SimonH

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich


The radiator change appears to be a half day job so out of warranty, not a thing you want.


The radiator change is 7 hours labour, + the cost of the radiator.....
Posted By: Donny T

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 04:24 PM

Hi Simon,mine is the rad you have which failed at less than 80 miles. Have you started to make a replacement yet?
Have a feeling we will need it
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by SimonH
Originally Posted by +8Rich


The radiator change appears to be a half day job so out of warranty, not a thing you want.


The radiator change is 7 hours labour, + the cost of the radiator.....

That is a very expensive "hobby" then out of warranty.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Donny T
The factory is still making the same cars with the same radiator.Their take is simple
“They are not all failing “ it’s a joke.They have not found the radiator problem for which they have known about well over a year. I personally know people who have had five rads.
Now the brakes.where and when is the fix, this year, next year,sometime never.
For the factory its all about money
My personal take is simple, give me the car I paid for or my money back. I now will miss classic and mog fest plus I have not been to a single mog meeting this year due to car been laid up.
At best I think we should all ask for compensation and if they don’t offer answers soon my car will be going back.
Already spoke to solicitor and they don’t have a leg to stand on,
We all take this rubbish because it’s a Morgan!!! Would you stand it with any other car brand?
Sorry gents rant over


I am not surprised at all by your solicitors advice, I think people should start a group action and return cars, only that may make Morgan sit up and take notice.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 05:14 PM

Having googled a bit, it seems it happens to the best of them. 5900 Lambos recalled due to risk of fire,10,000 Ferrari recalled for brake failure issues, 1000 Ferrari recalled for life threatening airbag issues. Lotus had recalls due to issues with oil cooler connectors/risk of fire, Porsche recall 4500 EV Taycan for sudden power loss, and so on.......

One wonders if it is an indication of the poor quality of modern global manufacturing?

Are the CX rads made in house, or bought in? I know in visits in the 80's I watched rads being built, but don't recall seeing that in my visit this year.

How many of the M3W issues were down to poor quality assembly at MMC, or a result of bad design and/or problems with quality from suppliers?

I fully understand the frustration and disappoint of CX owners, but it seems to be that this is a blight of many of the smaller sports car manufacturers due to the need to outsource so much of the manufacturing process.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 05:28 PM

my dealer told not to worry about the warranty , the radiator is a well know problem and it will be changed untill it is fixed. About the brakes i think Morgan overreacted , they should have asked for a control and then if necessary change the master cylinder.If the master cylinder has to be changed all three years it is ok for me . The bmw 3 cylinders 1200 cc engine in the peugeot of my wife needs 1 litre of oil every 3 weeks since almost 2 years. Peugeot has never proposed to change the engine on warranty.
Posted By: Julian BB

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 07:10 PM

So, is the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning for Morgan?????

For ever, the quality has been average, it has, but owners/enthusiasts accepted, gladly, 'the issues' and even saw the issues and inherent faults as a challenge and an opportunity to personalise and modify their cars.
The idiosyncrasies, the peculiarities of the cars are the very reason they are so loved by owners. You have to be very patient and understanding to be an owner, you probably have to be a quite odd to be a long time owner....!

"They all do that sir', may have been acceptable in the first 100 years, but as we've moved into the second century, with new models and new examples of poor design and manufacturing, it can't go on.

For most of the first century I'm not sure there actually was much of a design department at the factory, things just happened. Now that the factory actually have a team of designers, things are actually planned and designed.........!
People, owners new and old have a right to expect more from their new sports car.

The Marque has definitely improved and advanced thanks to some incredibly clever owners and specialists modifying and remodeling cars to cover up ancient 'design' and parts bin cost savings.
I appreciate that many manufacturers raid parts bins and that cost and profit is vital, but when you're charging £80k+ for your product you have to choose your parts bin very carefully!
I appreciate that many manufacturers have safety recalls, but Morgan being a tiny manufacturer will feel the pain more acutely.

Hopefully this latest PR and reputational disaster will be the kick up the arse that Morgan needs to buck it's ideas up. If they want to play with the big boys they have to get a grip of quality.

Let's hope that lessons are learned from this, let's hope that no one is hurt by any brake failures and let's see if this focuses minds in Malvern enough to make it a new beginning when it come to quality, reliability and safety.

Come on Morgan........!!!
Posted By: nick w

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 07:23 PM

1.7 million cars recalled here...!
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/08/automakers-recall-1point7-million-cars-with-fatal-airbags.html
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 07:25 PM



That's the one Ferrari were using too.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by TBM

One wonders if it is an indication of the poor quality of modern global manufacturing?


End-stage Capitalism. It always used to be argued that a free market would always ensure that the most efficient solutions would emerge, and to a certain extent that was true. We had to do a bit of intervention now and again to ensure the worst excesses of the profiteers were curtailed by things like safety standards and employment law, but we are now operating in a materially different environment.

1. The manipulation of the negotiating process. We used to see it all the time when dealing with external consultancies. You'd put out an invitation to tender, and some of the big companies would bid. You'd get an incredibly impressive presentation, a lot of very expensive senior consultant telling you how wonderful and inexpensive a service they could provide, and any attempt to get them to commit to specific prices for specific specifications was always met with an airy wave of "That'll be no problem, we can iron stufff out as we go along". Then when the contract was signed the A team they promised was replaced with loads of keen but incompetent graduates who we used to train, and every possible piece of work was classified as a 'change to spec' and charged extra for. I bet the samples MMC get provided with from contract bidders are orders of magnitude better made than the stuff that get delivered when the contract is in place

2. The loss of competition. There are fewer and fewer genuine manufacturers out there, with less and less choice for the purchaser to go to. 50 years ago there were probably dozens of engineering companies within an hour's drive of Malvern, each of whom would have been capable of providing the necessary services and all of whom would have been competing against each other for the business. Now they are all owned by the same few manufacturing conglomerates and the element of competition doesn't exist.

3. Multiple levels of sub-contracting make it extraordinarily difficult for QA processes to work effectively. Somewhere along the line someone is going to to slip up or deliver sub-standard components and it's not necessarily going to be detected until that component has been incorporated in a few more super-assemblies

4. Poor incentivisation for departmental heads. Many managers are bonused on their team's performance above anything else. A bean-counter gets a win if they can get a supplier to knock another 2% off the bill, and doesn't care that the effect of a lower quality component is paid for by another department. Production is incentivised over and above quality, leading to the inevitable. See something and fix it on the line and it costs £1. Wait for the batch inspector to catch it and it costs £10. Leave for the dealer PDI and it costs £100. Wait for the customer to discover the fault and it costs £1000.

It's very easy to buy crap these days, and bloody difficult to get good stuff. But the good companies are out there. There are a couple of top-end engineering companies in our parish. Both have excellent reputations, full order books and provide a lot of local employment. Both focus on the aerospace field, and I think it's probably because aerospace is one of the last bastions of proper quality engineering.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 09:05 PM

Of course as you pointed out there are good companies, whose modus operandi embraces both quality, best business practice and value customer satisfaction as key driving factors in their business model, often delivering enhanced bottom lines and long term customer relationships.

Whilst I've only come back into the Morgan fold recently, after a near 30 year sabbatical, its increasingly clear to me where the current Morgan business model direction lies. I prefer the Morgan business model philosophy John Harvey Jones experienced, others may disagree, and of course, it may not have survived into these increasingly demanding legislative environment for motor vehicle manufacturers.

I'm not so sure that aviation is the last bastion of engineering as clearly demonstrated by Boeing when the FAA delegated more of its oversight and governance processes to Boeing with its resultant 737 Max debacle.


Posted By: Themorganeer

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 09:21 PM

Benjamin Franklin’s famous quote comes to mind ” The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”. MMC should perhaps take note.

Even if component part suppliers were to eventually fork out, the car manufacturers reputation will take a big hit going forward.

Disappointing but not entirely surprising.
Posted By: Julian BB

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 10:27 PM

In this case, the bitterness of poor quality will not be forgotten and I don't think buyers enjoyed any sweetness of low price......
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/06/22 11:19 PM

The only thing that matters is NPS as my US friends would say. You get the NPS right your business goes the right way.

Net Promoter Score https://www.netpromoter.com/know/

All judgements need to be based on how the customer would present you in a meeting with the people they care about. If it contributes to a positive rating then you have made the right choice. You empower your people to consider this decision in actions they make with each customer every single day. Give them boundaries at which they justify the recommendation to management for support.

If you are pitching a company based on a story of history, morals, family, factory visits to see genuine people making little mobile bits of history then make it real. Or you lose your staff respect as well.

Over communicate when you drop a plunky.
Be clear and considerate of the position you place your customers in, not just the issue.
Work out how you can make it up to them even with a small action in the future.
People love someone who makes the effort to recover from an issue.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/06/22 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by JohnHarris
Originally Posted by Donny T
The factory is still making the same cars with the same radiator.Their take is simple
“They are not all failing “ it’s a joke.They have not found the radiator problem for which they have known about well over a year. I personally know people who have had five rads.
Now the brakes.where and when is the fix, this year, next year,sometime never.
For the factory its all about money
My personal take is simple, give me the car I paid for or my money back. I now will miss classic and mog fest plus I have not been to a single mog meeting this year due to car been laid up.
At best I think we should all ask for compensation and if they don’t offer answers soon my car will be going back.
Already spoke to solicitor and they don’t have a leg to stand on,
We all take this rubbish because it’s a Morgan!!! Would you stand it with any other car brand?
Sorry gents rant over


I am not surprised at all by your solicitors advice, I think people should start a group action and return cars, only that may make Morgan sit up and take notice.


GEE, where have I heard that before.....?
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/06/22 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Alistair
The only thing that matters is NPS as my US friends would say. You get the NPS right your business goes the right way.

Net Promoter Score https://www.netpromoter.com/know/

All judgements need to be based on how the customer would present you in a meeting with the people they care about. If it contributes to a positive rating then you have made the right choice. You empower your people to consider this decision in actions they make with each customer every single day. Give them boundaries at which they justify the recommendation to management for support.

If you are pitching a company based on a story of history, morals, family, factory visits to see genuine people making little mobile bits of history then make it real. Or you lose your staff respect as well.

Over communicate when you drop a plunky.
Be clear and considerate of the position you place your customers in, not just the issue.
Work out how you can make it up to them even with a small action in the future.
People love someone who makes the effort to recover from an issue.


A very worthwhile post Alistair

It is not so much that you have an issue with your new toy, or any purchase for that matter, but the way the fault is handled by the vendor
That's where my Morgan experience got ugly.....

My post from April 2013...
Customer service...

Posted By: Heinz

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/06/22 12:59 AM

Morgan's reputation is being decided right now. Mistakes can happen, even if it is very annoying and has disappointing consequences. The important thing is to deal with such events, it is today that will go down in history...either as the day of unconditional immediate help for all customers with optimized long-life replacement parts or as the day where paralysis of action from a mixture of fear of expenses and concern of a smaller profit takes over. We can only hope that the right decision will be made because otherwise today's cheap solution will become tomorrow's very expensive one including loss of confidence and loss of sales. Well, this thread will certainly be read at MMC.

Edit. I had not seen Alistair's post yet but it goes to the same direction. And very true, the impact on employee ethics is also an important factor.
Posted By: Charles75

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/06/22 04:18 AM

Good Morning,


recalls are the result of cheaper and cheaper and cheaper production and earn more money for a pricles product. All companys have recalls. MB has a 1 Mio. Car recall with the master brake cylinder.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/06/22 06:50 AM

It seems to follow a pattern here - Charles M gets sacked, M3W problems, new CX platform, InvestIndustrial, Radiator issues, Brake recall - all seem to signal the imminent death of the company.

How many companies have gone under following a stop/recall?

I'm thankfully unaffected, but I can understand the frustration and annoyance, particularly if you rely on your Morgan as a daily driver. However, the alternative (possibly brake failure/crash/death/insurance payout) would have more far reaching consequences.

Fingers crossed they find a decent solution, and action repairs/returns quickly and effectively so everyone can get back to enjoying their cars until the next problem smile
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/06/22 07:19 AM

I don't want to excuse morgan because i am very upset about the interdiction of driving the car. But about the quality if you look close the plus four , the quality is there , the car is very well build , when i saw the plus six in Genève i took a closer look at the suspension ,the chassis , the wood ,the interior finish.The car is a lot better than any trad. Now a part with a cost of 100 euro is blocking us. Does that mean that Morgan will go in bankruptcy , i dont think .
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/06/22 07:28 AM

I think it all just boils down to the difficulty (impossibility?) of making hand-built products to a sufficient quality whilst keeping the price affordable.

It's perfectly possible to hand-build cars of impeccable quality in every respect, but the time and costs involved in doing so would push the costs into territory where only millionaires could afford to buy them.

On the other hand, it's possible to mass produce stuff to perfect quality and consistency, but then you need to exploit economies of scale and use automated systems to eliminate human error - and more crucially you need complete control of the entire production process. Buying in components is a risky business and you need the clout to make sure your suppliers conform absolutely to your quality standards. If even manufacturers like Porsche and MB get caught out now and again, what chance have MMC got?

MMC are not only treading this narrow and tricky path but are also having to deal with increasingly restrictive legislation - just imagine how easy it would be for them if they could produce cars to the same standards as 20 years ago. Their production costs are rising and pushing their products into the zone where their customers are less tolerant of sub-optimal performance. I don't envy them.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/06/22 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by thierry242
I don't want to excuse morgan because i am very upset about the interdiction of driving the car. But about the quality if you look close the plus four , the quality is there , the car is very well build , when i saw the plus six in Genève i took a closer look at the suspension ,the chassis , the wood ,the interior finish.The car is a lot better than any trad. Now a part with a cost of 100 euro is blocking us. Does that mean that Morgan will go in bankruptcy , i dont think .

'
There's an old phrase/saying 'don’t spoil the ship for a ha’p’orth, or a halfpennyworth, of tar' means don’t risk the failure of a large project by trying to economise on trivial things.
Posted By: Robbie

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/06/22 09:11 AM

I dont fault the factory for having the recall - i do fault them for the delay in providing dealers with a solution . It seems that they have known about this issue now for a month - ref a car finished but "held up" at the factory since May 13th

Get the finger out folks - This is horse and cart speed - where is the Lamborghini speed - or did Massimo leave it behind!!!!!
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/06/22 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Heinz
Morgan's reputation is being decided right now. Mistakes can happen, even if it is very annoying and has disappointing consequences. The important thing is to deal with such events, it is today that will go down in history...either as the day of unconditional immediate help for all customers with optimized long-life replacement parts or as the day where paralysis of action from a mixture of fear of expenses and concern of a smaller profit takes over. We can only hope that the right decision will be made because otherwise today's cheap solution will become tomorrow's very expensive one including loss of confidence and loss of sales. Well, this thread will certainly be read at MMC.

Edit. I had not seen Alistair's post yet but it goes to the same direction. And very true, the impact on employee ethics is also an important factor.


Yes employee motivation and ethics are very important, I visited the TVR factory just up the road in Blackpool in the 90's, and was quite shocked as when I went around the factory at the attitude of the employees and the rude gestures and pictures drawn on the the underside of all the trim panels being placed in the cars, not visible to the customers until you removed a trim panel. I mentioned it to the Sales Manager who was showing us around and got little reaction almost an acceptance of this wayward employee behaviour. I never bought a TVR as I could tell that problems would be instore as a result of the lack of build quality from disenfranchised employees.
Posted By: Spizz Oil

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/06/22 10:16 AM

In a previous life, I used to deal with product liability issues.

It's easy to be critical, but it looks to me as if they've investigated the issue and that the immediate steps they took were correct. Now they have to find and implement the fix and learn longer term from the experience.

My guess is that Massimo Fumarola was bought in by the VC guys to do just that - improve the product - as Morgan moves from being a hobbyist to a premium brand. Note that in the press release, he specifically talked about "quality refinement".

I don't buy that Morgan is cynical in any way. If nothing else, the company is passionate about its cars.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/06/22 10:39 AM

I hope there is a lot going on in the background. My experience of product recalls in the B2B sector is that you need to :-
1. Be honest & open about the problem within the organisation & your customers and advise on potential risks. MMC seem to have done that.
2. Over communicate to your customers. I sadly don't see that with MMC after the recall email are communicating at all, hence the deteriorating tone on here about how they are handling it.
3. Set up a task force with regular reviews by a senior manager , typically 1-2 times a day at first. These are short meeting with clear action logs & owners for the actions.
4. Work with the supplier & worry about the cost & blame later.
5. Learn from the issue and redesign business processes to stop a repeat.

You also need a business risk committee that looks at the likelyhood and the damage impact of any possible risk twice a year and what can be done to mitigate it. For example if the wood shop burnt down could MMC insource? Do you they have store copies of design drawings and specs in a separate safe location & a potential supplier identified or is a fire suppression system more relevant.

Hopefully MMC will crack this , learn from it & move on before their customers are lost.
Posted By: MJF

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/06/22 07:07 PM

I worked in the brake industry for the first 15 years of my career and was involved in a number of campaign changes.

I recall one where the senior management were under pressure to provide an instant solution and didn't allow time for appropriate testing or validation. The campaign change was carried out 3 times before it was properly fixed as a result of which it dragged on for more than a year. Be careful about wanting quick fixes - brake system changes need to be properly validated and if it was me I would want a permanent fix and not a quick fix.

I am sure that they are working flat out on this and will want to get to a permanent conclusion.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/06/22 07:11 PM

Amen to that
Posted By: AndyMog57

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 09:47 AM

Just called my dealer. I am told MMC will issue a statement in next 24 to 48 hours.

Dealer cagey about saying too much other than repairs will take place over a period of 'weeks' but wouldn't commit as too when the program would start.

Considering the logistical issues they also face, this is not going to happen quickly. If it does, I will be very happy, but not expecting this to be the case.
Posted By: sospan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 11:25 AM

Two points.....
How much quality built in at the design stage has been done? You design quality in at the early stage as, in the long run, it is a better AND cheaper way. Costs of correction can escalate due to later changes, remedial work ( recalls etc) and brand image and confidence.
There can be arguments between engineers and accountants. One wants engineering excellence and the other reduced costs. Where is the balance?
I remember in my metallurgy days, we had to tip 150t of molten steel out of a ladle onto the floor in the casting bay The nozzle for casting was blocked. I discovered the refractories manager changed the lining to a cheaper one. It reacted to form a high melting point aluminium oxide instead of low one. The solids blocked the nozzle. He was lucky to keep his job for not checking for potential problems.
Posted By: Budster

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 11:44 AM

I wonder how many Plus Fours and Plus Six have been sold by each of the dealers?
When I contacted Berrybrook to book the MoT and annual service for my 4/4, Bradley’s words were:
“We’re extremely busy”
Bud
4/4 - Stanley
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 11:45 AM

I would think that MMC, buying an off the shelf product from an established brake manufacturer (I've been looking recently, and they do stuff for the MG world, Lancia, Jag, kit car stuff from CBS, SVC and also JCB) would have an expectation that all the necessary engineering checks and quality assurance had already been done.

Still keeping everything crossed for a quick fix for those affected.
Posted By: Soleng

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 12:37 PM

Appearantly, the cause of the problem was a too high porosity in the alloy cast causing the rubber to wear out prematurely. The old style cast iron master cylinders may have weighed a little more, but I never heard of such issues with cast iron cylinders.
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 03:10 PM

Dealer tells me MMC have ordered new master cylinders which will take 2 - 3 weeks to deliver then fitting can start.

Don't take this as a definite time period though - any other dealer info?
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 03:33 PM

Hawki who owns a CX had heard nothing as of this pm.
Posted By: sospan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 03:58 PM

Casting produces a lower strength product than wrought processes as the cast microstructure can be porous unless the process is designed and managed correctly. There are casting methods to reduce porosity......centrifugal, vacuum, pressurised etc. The castings would then be machined where needed to a final size/ tolerance. That can expose sub-surface porosity to be opened up. There should then be an inspection stage to detect problems and allow suspect batches to be isolated and further checks done. Critical components would be 100% inspected rather than sequential sampling in a sampling plan. For example, investment cast jet engine turbine blades 100% with potentially high reject levels. Having a strong process control is essential. Make it simple to do correctly and difficult to stray from correct practises. The TVR story told in an earlier post is, unfortunately, “old school uk manufacturing attitude”. Remember the Harvey-Jones Morgan tv program years ago?
They all do that, sir.
Oh! The joys of setting up inspection systems and getting the message across from factory floor to boardroom!
I dealt with HMRC for Tobacco duty. Huge £££££ sums involved. Teaching some of their auditing people was fun. Sampling plans based on standard accepted statistical methods.
Posted By: DRR

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 05:04 PM

Just heard the same from my Dealer.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Soleng
Appearantly, the cause of the problem was a too high porosity in the alloy cast causing the rubber to wear out prematurely. The old style cast iron master cylinders may have weighed a little more, but I never heard of such issues with cast iron cylinders.


Sounds very much like buying on price, not performance!
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 07:07 PM

If only there was a technology that would allow Morgan to communicate with people quickly so they could show their honest desire to correct this as quickly as possible. Perhaps we should invent something like Faceplant or email, draw up a list of people and attach them (and the dealers) so they can over communicate with a regular cadence. That would be amazing oops
Posted By: Donny T

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 07:12 PM

I’ve Just had an email which says the same.Lets hope this new batch produced in a rush is going to be much better.
I also think the factory will fit theirs first,so 3 weeks I very much doubt that.
In the real world I think most repairs will be August onwards. If this is the case I’ve lost 5 months of the best part of the year.wonder what MMC and dealers are going to offer me.? Free services etc?
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Donny T
I’ve Just had an email which says the same.Lets hope this new batch produced in a rush is going to be much better.
I also think the factory will fit theirs first,so 3 weeks I very much doubt that.
In the real world I think most repairs will be August onwards. If this is the case I’ve lost 5 months of the best part of the year.wonder what MMC and dealers are going to offer me.? Free services etc?


Probably a tee shirt with "I'm a Beta tester" on it frown
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 08:06 PM

To be fair none of what is happening around the CX is that different to the issues the Aero models had even late into the platforms life with the 2013 Coupe I took ownership of.

We collected the Coupe from the factory on my 50th birthday and in the next 18 months it literally spent 9 months back at the factory being sorted. From memory it had six trips. Since then there have been further situations that have bought my blood to the boil.

When I do boil I have to remind myself that the team there do not do this to get a rise out of us. Every penny that gets pulled out of them in "compo" detracts from bottom line which removes investment and raises prices. You just have to put on your grown up trousers and back off the coffee for a bit.

Did I go into this assuming the Coupe would be as solid as an AMG (which actually cost less), ha ha no I don't think so. Did I expect to suffer the level of crap that occurred? no. It's the utterly terrible attention to service that has disappointed me most about Morgan.

Parts prices
Parts availability
Communication
Attitude

I still have the emails and messages. Someone should be feeling very embarrassed.

But the car is special unlike anything else I have found. I am privileged to have a daily rumble and so not be reliant on the Coupe.

Perspective is something only available after the event.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by Alistair
To be fair none of what is happening around the CX is that different to the issues the Aero models had even late into the platforms life with the 2013 Coupe I took ownership of.

We collected the Coupe from the factory on my 50th birthday and in the next 18 months it literally spent 9 months back at the factory being sorted. From memory it had six trips. Since then there have been further situations that have bought my blood to the boil.

When I do boil I have to remind myself that the team there do not do this to get a rise out of us. Every penny that gets pulled out of them in "compo" detracts from bottom line which removes investment and raises prices. You just have to put on your grown up trousers and back off the coffee for a bit.

Did I go into this assuming the Coupe would be as solid as an AMG (which actually cost less), ha ha no I don't think so. Did I expect to suffer the level of crap that occurred? no. It's the utterly terrible attention to service that has disappointed me most about Morgan.

Parts prices
Parts availability
Communication
Attitude

I still have the emails and messages. Someone should be feeling very embarrassed.

But the car is special unlike anything else I have found. I am privileged to have a daily rumble and so not be reliant on the Coupe.

Perspective is something only available after the event.

Alistair, steady on, I think that is the most adult post I have ever read on here, demonstrating total honesty allied to great perspective clap
Posted By: JJR

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 08:59 PM

Does the Super 3 have the same brake parts, master cylinder, etc. as the CX cars? Just a thought.
Posted By: sospan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/06/22 09:51 PM

Problems with Morgans is not a new one. From my relative recent involvement as an owner there have been several. Recently the M3W has needed major issues to be sorted. Chassis, bevel box, exhaust, bump steer, rear sprocket being frequent ones. CX radiator failures, brake squeal, seats....
Why?
Is it underdevelopment?
Is it lack of expertise?
Is it cost cutting?
Is it parts supplier quality?
Is it rushing a launch?
There is an oft quoted phrase....Morgan builds the car and owners finish it off.
If the problem with the CX master cylinder is down to substandard quality then that is down to supplier quality AND possibly inadequate monitoring of parts by MMC in the early production. It is quite common for initial high inspection/testing of a new supplier until agreed confidence is gained and monitoring then reduced. If subsequent problems resurface then monitoring increases again. What is the Morgan process? Order parts and assume they are ok? Random testing?
What is in the supplier’s contract to specify a quality level and expectations with clauses for failing to meet them?
If substandard master cylinders is the cause then will the supplier be footing the bill for rectification?
Posted By: JB62

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 06:42 AM

I am in my 20th year of Morgan ownership- I’m sure there are many on this forum with more. Like Alistair I’ve suffered both ends of the emotional spectrum with Morgan. From the pure joy of belting whatever Morgan down a country lane on a summer’s day- to the pure annoyance over poor service.

Poor service I believe is often an attitude- and that more than ever annoys me.

This situation is a real turning point for Morgan in its 100 or so years of existence- it is either going to step up and attitudinally “ get it right”- or, it will muddle through hoping that the loyal customer will just “ be ok with it” and things just trundle on.

But they won’t because the new customers attracted to Morgan won’t stay. And that would be sad.

S#?t happens- all the time. It is how you sort it. I just hope someone at Morgan is really thinking about communication and mid/long term survival- not muddling through in the short term.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 07:13 AM

From what I've picked up - there seems to have been some communication with the owners - original notification of problem, and then subsequent update on the problem, fix and possible time frame.

I would imagine that the majority of communications are going through the dealer network, rather than direct from MMC, as they would have the full contact details of those they sold the vehicles to. I would also imagine that there are good dealers who are prioritising the dissemination of information, and then there are others.
Posted By: Robbie

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 07:27 AM

No solution has made its way across the Irish Sea yet!!! They really need to get the finger out!
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by Robbie
No solution has made its way across the Irish Sea yet!!! They really need to get the finger out!


Was yours via a dealer or direct from MMC? If the latter, then there is no excuse.
Posted By: WAFU_Tom

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Robbie
No solution has made its way across the Irish Sea yet!!! They really need to get the finger out!


Williams have said nothing official heard so far. Frustrating with the good weather. I am on my second radiator with the Plus Four, the first being the original design that failed and now the updated design has failed. Had it at williams who took the whole front end off only to find the replacement rad from Morgan was damaged. New radiator finally here after long back order and with brake issue cannot drive to dealer. Sub optimal especially at this price point and especially with mixed news on who has been told what and from who about fix.


Still absolutely love the car and on the whole think it is magnificent. The failure of rad repeatedly and the potential failure of brakes isn't great though. Williams said they have replaced one owner's radiator SIX times.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 08:12 AM

I remember well when I took delivery of my 94 Mercedes E220 coupe, first in the UK with the facelift and twin airbags and within days I had an intermittent fault tripping the safe mode. Back to the dealership, within an hour the service engineer had found the fault (immobiliser wires rubbing on the edge of the metal tube they ran thru) spoke with Mercedes UK and also spoke with Mercedes production in Germany to correct the fault on the production line. That was the level of service Mercedes provided back then, but you also paid for, when even speakers, the radio and an aerial were extra's on top of list price of the car. It was quite an impressive service feed back system, that ensured quality, which went out the window when they joined up with Chrysler to bring greater mass production techniques into Mercedes. That tie up cost Mercedes billions, lead to an inferior product and it took years to unravel that mess and the impact it had in the quality finish of the vehicles and their service infrastructure which they still haven't fully recovered from, IMHO Mercedes was never the same again.

When I first purchased a Morgan I had to buy second hand as the daunting 8 to 10 year waiting list would test the patience of most people except the loyal Morgan faithful, but repaid by keeping resale values very high for even the most humble specification Morgan. When I bought my first Morgan second hand, a 5 year old former Sunday Times competition car, Life's took the current price list and added cost of the car then and the cost of extra's to finish the car plus £500 and that became the sales price, which was much higher than when the car was first sold five years earlier. When I sold the Morgan back to them I made £150, so other than running and service costs the first Morgan ownership experience had been pretty painless, which helped smooth out the Morgan foibles and lack of quality in certain areas for a quite unique in the market place product. But those conditions that held Morgan resale values etc with a customer base mainly of loyal enthusiasts have moved on, and Morgan now operates in a different market segment with a more demanding customer base.

If the likes of Mercedes can get it so fundamentally wrong when partnering with the likes of Chrysler for whatever questionable business rationale, what chance does Morgan have with finite financial and management resources dedicated to deliver a technically more sophisticated product, branching into new manufacturing platforms and more sophisticated driving aids eg power steering, ABS, air conditioning and so on. Are we expecting too much or have Morgan got to take that next step change in its customer relationship, quality and service infrastructure to really compete and justify their current price point in a very crowded marketplace.

In the UK Morgan has less than 8 years to the UK ban on petrol car sales, its biggest market so far, 3 years into the CX platform, like the M3W, they are dealing with fundamental engineering/quality issues on proven old technologies, which are consuming their quite finite resources to resolve. I'm not sure what a Morgan post 2030 will look like, will there be a market place for it and I question whether they will generate the resources to engineering the new ' form of motion' platform that wont be beset by problems and will the service infrastructure be sufficient to maintain it. Interesting times ahead, maybe a trad for all its foibles might be the true Morgan legacy.
Posted By: BuyBritish

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 08:16 AM

I have just purchased 4 slave cylinders for my morris minor at £22.50 plus vat the real deal are much more. Higher quality ones have the stainless steel bores and are much better and last longer.
Are these Morgan Master Cylinders aluminium castings and unlined bores hence the porosity.
Posted By: RichP6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 08:50 AM

I am a 2020 Plus Six owner and a very recent member to the forum.
Firstly I would like to say in the 20 moths 7500 mile I have had my P6 it’s been relatively worry and issue free. No issues with brakes, radiators, rattles etc. I realize that’s probable rare.
Yes I am grounded at the moment due to the Stop Drive Recall but to be fair the communications I received last week were rapid and from multiple dealers. Yesterday the dealer rang me to let me know that Morgan has a solution and a fix and it’s just a master cylinder change. They are on order and first batch will be in next 3 weeks.
I guess the challenge know is getting scheduled in for the fix as the dealers are all very busy and the cars all need to be trailered due to no drive stipulation.
Posted By: IcePack

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 09:07 AM

Not that I understand these things but as a temporary fix why can’t the seals just be changed with say a max use of X miles until a permanent fix is available. Just a thought.
Posted By: BuyBritish

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 09:15 AM

Spoken with Past Parts here in Bury St Edmunds and they can reline the cylinder and fit new seals with a fast turnaround

Im guessing for warranty and consistency one fix from factory and only that will do
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by RichP6
Yes I am grounded at the moment due to the Stop Drive Recall but to be fair the communications I received last week were rapid and from multiple dealers. Yesterday the dealer rang me to let me know that Morgan has a solution and a fix and it’s just a master cylinder change. They are on order and first batch will be in next 3 weeks.


That is good to hear, amongst all the doom and gloom.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by BuyBritish
Spoken with Past Parts here in Bury St Edmunds and they can reline the cylinder and fit new seals with a fast turnaround

Im guessing for warranty and consistency one fix from factory and only that will do


That's definitely what I'd do for a one off repair, but factor in 1200+ units (and those that are currently awaiting sale in dealerships and in production at the factory). plus the time for delivery there and back from all over UK and Europe, it will probably be far quicker to just whip out the old and stick in a new.
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 06:44 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: gaston

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 06:49 PM

Good news!!


We will be able to resume our long walks without being afraid of being broken down.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 07:40 PM

The summer will be finished went it will be done.
Posted By: Spizz Oil

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 08:07 PM

I received an email from the Morgan Sports Car Club that said inter alia:


I wish to take this opportunity to address a misleading rumour that has been circulating, to which some of you referred in your responses: a report that the defective component was made in India. We were told that this is NOT the case: it was made by a reputable UK supplier.
Posted By: Lordofthewings

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 08:40 PM

When this news first broke, I contacted a former colleague (who is the M.D. of a significant UK manufacturer of O-rings) for a view. On June 13 he replied:

"Thank you for thinking of us in relation to the unfortunate quality/reliability issues at Morgan, I hope it can be resolved as quickly and safely as possible. Whilst XXXXX is a supplier of high-integrity elastomeric O-Rings and seals, we also operate our business in clearly defined niches of the market. Automotive braking is one of the areas that we specifically do not supply. Perhaps given the fallout that may ensue from Morgan’s issue, you will understand why we as an SME have taken this approach. Supplying braking seals requires specific dedication of production areas, where no other type of product is manufactured or handled, and is generally supplied by large global seal companies who have the resources to deal with such an event. The real cause of this issue may turn out to be machine finishes and dimensional tolerances of the metal parts in the system, as well as of course the correct material specification for the seals. The investigation will identify the root cause".

Prescient I reckon.
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Spizz Oil
I received an email from the Morgan Sports Car Club that said inter alia:


I wish to take this opportunity to address a misleading rumour that has been circulating, to which some of you referred in your responses: a report that the defective component was made in India. We were told that this is NOT the case: it was made by a reputable UK supplier.

So how does that tally with the message my friend sent me for his plus four, as follows:

“Out of interest I have just taken down all the Makers info off the Brake servo and pump cylinder. Exactly as Printed on the servo, it reads: “trenos IRUNA BRAKES/ REF PROVEEDOR 6107095/MADE in CEE LOTE No 1100.”

On the master cylinder body it reads “LB095L 007A”.

Doesn’t look very British to me!
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 09:15 PM

It says "reputable UK supplier" which could mean a reputable company that supplies the UK, rather than a UK company?
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Deejay
Originally Posted by Spizz Oil
I received an email from the Morgan Sports Car Club that said inter alia:


I wish to take this opportunity to address a misleading rumour that has been circulating, to which some of you referred in your responses: a report that the defective component was made in India. We were told that this is NOT the case: it was made by a reputable UK supplier.

So how does that tally with the message my friend sent me for his plus four, as follows:

“Out of interest I have just taken down all the Makers info off the Brake servo and pump cylinder. Exactly as Printed on the servo, it reads: “trenos IRUNA BRAKES/ REF PROVEEDOR 6107095/MADE in CEE LOTE No 1100.”

On the master cylinder body it reads “LB095L 007A”.

Doesn’t look very British to me!


Cee is a town in Spain. Lote means batch in English, according to Google translate
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/06/22 09:49 PM

More likely is old tooling and means Comunità economica europea (CEE)

See https://irunabrakes.com/company/
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/06/22 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by Deejay
So how does that tally with the message my friend sent me for his plus four, as follows:

“Out of interest I have just taken down all the Makers info off the Brake servo and pump cylinder. Exactly as Printed on the servo, it reads: “trenos IRUNA BRAKES/ REF PROVEEDOR 6107095/MADE in CEE LOTE No 1100.”

On the master cylinder body it reads “LB095L 007A”.

Doesn’t look very British to me!


Iruna are well known for their boosters and servos (and are fitted to a lot of vehicles) and as far as I'm aware there are no issues with the servo.

I wonder if the 'LB' code on the master cylinder stands for 'Lucas Braking'? Lucas still exist under the TRW banner. That would tie in with the UK supplier bit?
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/06/22 06:46 AM

I am with TBM & Gambalunga on this. I think any “Lucas” stuff uses the TRW logo.
Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/06/22 07:54 AM

https://twitter.com/autocar/status/1537374474596646912?s=21
Probably not the best question to ask right now.
Posted By: MorgantheFreeMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/06/22 11:06 AM

Nah, ‘LB’ means ‘loose bowels’.
Posted By: RichP6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/06/22 09:10 PM

I think you will find CEE is a collective name of the old Eastern European Block of the former Soviet Union
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/06/22 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by RichP6
I think you will find CEE is a collective name of the old Eastern European Block of the former Soviet Union


When EEC is written in French/Spanish is becomes CEE.

Originally Posted by random example
Buy La Directive 85/374/CEE relative à la responsabilité du fait des produits: dix ans après = Directive 85/374/EEC on product liability : ten years after ...

Posted By: AndyMog57

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/06/22 10:16 AM

My supplying dealer told me yesterday that the new master cylinder will provide improved braking feel and performance.

As the brakes almost feel as if there is no servo assistance (a little 'wooden' TBH), this will, in my opinion, be a good thing.

I must say though, Morgan's are hand built cars, far from mass production vehicles. As such, a certain degree of frustration and aggravation can be expected. Anyone who bought a Morgan without doing their research beforehand, will probably be annoyed and disappointed. However, when I looked into this before purchasing, I discovered there has rarely been model launched which wasn't beset by quality issues and aggravation. Talk to any MSCC member who has owned multiple Morgan's and they will tell you the same story.

If you want a soulless experience then buy one of the production line built sports cars. If you want charm, soul, history and heritage and real pride of ownership then Morgan delivers by the bucket load. Just accept they are an idiosyncratic hand-built marque.
Posted By: MJF

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/06/22 10:26 AM

I worked in Munich for some years and lived in a hotel opposite the BMW plant, as a result of which I got to know some of the BMW staff. I remember one guy who was their armrest and centre console specialist covering all models, which was probably just 3,5,6 and 7 series at that time. If I recall correctly the design and development budget for arm rest and centre consoles was in excess of the current Morgan turnover.

Against that perspective I think Morgan do pretty well.
Posted By: Paul F

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/06/22 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by MJF
I worked in Munich for some years and lived in a hotel opposite the BMW plant, as a result of which I got to know some of the BMW staff. I remember one guy who was their armrest and centre console specialist covering all models, which was probably just 3,5,6 and 7 series at that time. If I recall correctly the design and development budget for arm rest and centre consoles was in excess of the current Morgan turnover.

Against that perspective I think Morgan do pretty well.



+1

Before I retired, one of my clients was a manufacturer of specialist equipment used to shred metal (mostly cars). One of their products was a "block cracker". BMW's UK engine plant was one of their customers - they would destroy faulty blocks to ensure they never made it into the parts chain. This poses two questions:
1) What proportion of blocks are faulty that this investment was needed?
2) How many other investments are there in multinational car manufacturers that are linked to quality that are only affordable because of their scale?
Posted By: sospan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/06/22 11:11 AM

I agree up to a point. Recent build quality has improved. However, there are certain systems that warrant a high level of quality. Brakes are safety critical so come under a must be good category. So, two requirements are suitable for the weight/ performance of the car and standard of manufacture. The first is fairly straight forward. The second a function of design, manufacture and quality management. Is the part an existing one with a proven history or a newly developed one being introduced?
A manufacturer can batch produce existing parts and introduce batch conformity tests. Hence the ability to isolate batches if needed. This allows the customer to identify cars with parts found to be dubious. Hence recalls of specific models with batch related components used in their manufacture.
If the Morgan master cylinders are already off the shelf then what supplier quality system is in place to prevent substandard items getting through? What is in the contract to cover a required quality standard and rectification?
If off the shelf then are there other manufacturers being affected and also needing recalls?
Add in the attitude of the car manufacturer. How diligent are they about faults and resolving them?
Morgan have recently improved in this area so a good sign.
As for costs to Morgan, the brake supplier must be under scrutiny and liable in some way. The big question is reputation. Two points for this, first the credibility of MMC in how they deal with it for existing customers. Secondly the dent in image and how it is dealt with. Showing serious concern for putting the brakes right and how they liaise and treat customers and dealers is critical.
Customer.....treated fairly and made to feel they have been helped. Incentives, offers, compensation etc..
Dealers.....reimbursement for costs and no undue pressure. It is not beyond creating closer ties between MMC, dealer and customer.
Posted By: jim109b

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/06/22 12:21 PM

I'm awaiting my Plus Four from the factory, and this was estimated at the start of September.

Latest advice from Morgan is that the brakes issue has put 3 weeks on to this, now the end of September.
Posted By: AndyMog57

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/06/22 03:19 PM

TBH, that is a better outcome than having just taken delivery and then waiting an unknown number of weeks until you can drive the car, having paid in full for it!
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/06/22 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by jim109b
I'm awaiting my Plus Four from the factory, and this was estimated at the start of September.

Latest advice from Morgan is that the brakes issue has put 3 weeks on to this, now the end of September.


A good thing really as I read somewhere on here that they have also promised a "permanent" solution to the ongoing saga of the faulty radiator to be actioned at the same time that the brake master cylinder solution is, so you should be enjoying carefree motoring unlike the "testers".

Good luck and enjoy the car, they are lovely looking vehicles and I very nearly went for one but decided at the 11th hour that my V8 days still had some time to run.
Posted By: jim109b

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/06/22 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by jim109b
I'm awaiting my Plus Four from the factory, and this was estimated at the start of September.

Latest advice from Morgan is that the brakes issue has put 3 weeks on to this, now the end of September.


A good thing really as I read somewhere on here that they have also promised a "permanent" solution to the ongoing saga of the faulty radiator, so you should be enjoying carefree motoring unlike the "testers".

Good luck and enjoy the car, they are lovely looking vehicles and I very nearly went for one but decided at the 11th hour that my V8 days still had some time to run.


I'm usually one of the 'first off the line' types of person...makes a change this time to have let other people do the testing innocent
Posted By: gaston

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/06/22 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by jim109b

I'm usually one of the 'first off the line' types of person...makes a change this time to have let other people do the testing innocent



I did it for you. cheers
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/06/22 07:18 PM

Me too ,my car has been built in june 2020
Posted By: Capt Aero

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 05/07/22 11:53 AM

Still no confirmed information but it seems clear that this is not a quick like for like exchange of the master cylinder, there is other development work still ongoing.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 05/07/22 05:19 PM

At least it shows they sre looking for a permanent fix rather than a quick one.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 05/07/22 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Capt Aero
Still no confirmed information but it seems clear that this is not a quick like for like exchange of the master cylinder, there is other development work still ongoing.


Because the new master cylinder is not a "like for like" substitution and may be from a different supplier the new part has to go through a re-homologation process so not to compromise the vehicles type approval. I'm told there are cylinders on test rigs in the factory going through test cycles 24/7. It is, I'm told, due to be finished this week.
Quite why this is needed when an owner can choose to change a master cylinder without reference to anyone, but the manufacturer cannot, beats me.
Posted By: Budster

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 05/07/22 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Peter J
Originally Posted by Capt Aero
Still no confirmed information but it seems clear that this is not a quick like for like exchange of the master cylinder, there is other development work still ongoing.


Because the new master cylinder is not a "like for like" substitution and may be from a different supplier the new part has to go through a re-homologation process so not to compromise the vehicles type approval. I'm told there are cylinders on test rigs in the factory going through test cycles 24/7. It is, I'm told, due to be finished this week.
Quite why this is needed when an owner can choose to change a master cylinder without reference to anyone, but the manufacturer cannot, beats me.


Peter, regarding your last point; I’m guessing it is because the parts will be supplied by MMC?

Bud
4/4 - Stanley
budster
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 05/07/22 06:48 PM

Warranty will be the big issue here as well, any adhoc fitment will void this for you instantly and your insurers would possibly step away also.
Posted By: sospan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/07/22 10:15 AM

Is the problem one of a faulty batch that QA has picked up or simply poor initial selection and limited development/testing?
If the design is ok but faulty seals, manufacturing shortcomings then two options.
Ditch the supplier.
Get tighter QA in place with the supplier.
A third option is to have more than one supplier. Problems with one are covered by the second ( third even).
I guess that selecting parts for a car of known weight/ performance is fairly straight forward for stopping capability with space available to fit a second factor.
My plus8 had Austin Princess callipers. Off the shelf and suitable. Rocket science not needed.
Posted By: IcePack

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/07/22 10:39 AM

The supplier is getting a lot of flack, but when it comes to rubber O rings the question is where we’re they sourced. Aviation has had this type of problem in that somehow cheap copies got into the supply chain. How that happened I don’t think was ever discovered, as the parts were supposedly ordered from the genuine manufacturer.
Think this type of problem is an on going problem as I see Russia is now trying to manufacture Boeing parts.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/07/22 11:07 AM

It is not the O rings. The brake piston housing is a porous casting
Posted By: Charles75

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/07/22 12:14 PM

This mail arrived me at june 24.

"Dear Morgan customer,

We are writing to you with an update to the safety recall that is currently affecting your Morgan. We are sincerely sorry for the disruption that you have faced as a result of the stop drive safety recall affecting Morgan Plus Four and Plus Six vehicles. We are working tirelessly to identify a solution that meets the high standards of safety that we demand for our customers. Therefore, please rest assured that the necessary departments at Morgan are dedicated to getting you back on the road as quickly as possible.

We are pleased to report that we are close to validating a technical solution, along with the service action and vehicle movement process, and we aim to begin shipping the required parts to your Morgan dealer in the coming days. We cannot currently guarantee the date when your vehicle will be rectified, however we will keep your dealership updated with timings regularly, and they will be in touch with you at the earliest opportunity to arrange the necessary work required.

Once again, we regret any inconvenience caused by this action, our decisions have not been made lightly and we thank you for your continued patience and support.

Yours faithfully, "

and this from June 27.

"Dear Morgan customer,
We are writing to you with an update to the safety recall that is currently affecting your Morgan. We are sincerely sorry for the disruption that you have faced as a result of the stop drive safety recall affecting Morgan Plus Four and Plus Six vehicles. We are working tirelessly to identify a solution that meets the high standards of safety that we demand for our customers. Therefore, please rest assured that the necessary departments at Morgan are dedicated to getting you back on the road as quickly as possible.
We are pleased to report that we are close to validating a technical solution, along with the service action and vehicle movement process, and we aim to begin shipping the required parts to your Morgan dealer in the coming days. We cannot currently guarantee the date when your vehicle will be rectified, however we will keep your dealership updated with timings regularly, and they will be in touch with you at the earliest opportunity to arrange the necessary work required.
Once again, we regret any inconvenience caused by this action, our decisions have not been made lightly and we thank you for your continued patience and support.
Yours faithfully,
Morgan Motor Company "

Bye Marco
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/07/22 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by John V6
It is not the O rings. The brake piston housing is a porous casting


Correct:

This is an interesting read from the open university on the subject.
https://www.open.edu/openlearn/scie...ee-die-casting-active-atmosphere-casting

Clearly casting porosity is a known issue and some makers have a steel liner inside the casting.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/07/22 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Peter J
Originally Posted by John V6
It is not the O rings. The brake piston housing is a porous casting


Correct:

This is an interesting read from the open university on the subject.
https://www.open.edu/openlearn/scie...ee-die-casting-active-atmosphere-casting

Clearly casting porosity is a known issue and some makers have a steel liner inside the casting.



Thanks for that Peter very interesting article, it took me back to my metalwork class school days,when we produced metal castings in sand moulds......always very unnerving time handling the heavy very hot pouring ladle, trying to pour accurately, quickly with the least spitting and splash back................
Posted By: SimonH

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/07/22 02:22 PM

Brake cylinder bores should be roller burnished to finished size. This cold forms the metal surface and leaves the best surface finish for the seals to run against. My suspicion is that the boring operation on the existing master cylinders is breaking into an area of porosity within the casting, and that area is destroying the seals.

.roundy roundy smoothing

I'm interested to see what the fix is for the radiators- I've seen talk of swirl pot- that's not going to help the welds splitting on the tanks...
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/07/22 03:10 PM

I suspect you are absolutely right, Simon.

As to the radiator header tank welds splitting, is it possible that some form of cavitation is vibrating the coolant, resulting in fatigue fractures of the welds, and they think a swirl pot would remove the cavitation and protect the rad? I'm speculating: a well made aluminum radiator should be robust. So it the OEM radiator just "cheap" and not very robust?
Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/07/22 05:18 PM

I received a email on June 30 saying that a small number of vehicles would be rectified at the factory and mine was one. I should expect a call in the next 10 days to arrange collection and that the car would be with Morgan for 7-14 days to carry out the work.
This evening I have received an email from MMC as follows:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We are sincerely sorry for the disruption that you have faced as a result of the stop drive recall affecting Morgan Plus Four and Plus Six vehicles. We are eager to communicate updates to affected customers as regularly as possible.
We have been validating a technical fix as thoroughly and swiftly as possible, and this process is nearing completion. Whilst we must await the final results of this process, along with the sourcing of components, we are pleased to say that early indications are leading to a high level of confidence in the fix.
Once this process is complete, we plan to begin shipping the required parts to the Morgan dealer network, allowing them to begin rectification works to affected cars.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, basically they haven’t yet finally decided on a fix, let alone sourced or shipped the parts.
This leads me to conclude that it is highly unlikely the car will be on the road again this summer.
Having bought the car in 2020 and having two years of Covid (no-ones fault) and now this, I am sure most would understand why I am beginning to regret this very large purchase.
Posted By: Mikemog6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/07/22 06:34 PM

It could not have come at a worse time at the start of Summer there must be some form of compensation to be paid for the time the cars have been forced off the road?
Posted By: Haytop

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/07/22 07:40 PM



I purchased a Plus Four (CX) in February 2021 and deprived great pleasure from owning and driving it since then although my driving has been limited by personal circumstances. Consequently to be told in course of a telephone conversation in early June that I should cease to drive it because of a safety issue and receiving the letter of the 8th June 2022 caused intense concern not least because my pride and joy has since remained in my garage, in a Carcoon and connected to a trickle charger for upwards of four weeks because it cannot be driven on the public highway. Planned outings have been frustrated On present appearances this situation is likely to continue into the Autumn.

The letter reads in part “We would like to advise you that ongoing quality assessment of our product we have identified a possible safety related issue in respect of all Morgan Plus Four and Plus Six vehicles. Preliminary investigations indicate that in certain circumstances, premature degradation of the rubber seal(s) in the brake master cylinder may result in compromised brake performance and in extreme cases cause brake failure. Because this is a possible safety issue ……….”

The recall order was apparently dated the 1st June and was made apparently in respect of Morgan CX cars not in respect of a list of cars including those of other companies with a like or similar brake master cylinders and/or seals. Certainly I cannot trace a recall orders in like terms relating to other makes of car but I have not made formal inquiries of the GOV.Uk site because I do not know the identity of the models fitted with a like brake cylinder.


I am not an engineer nor a car mechanic nor a car expert but I have read the threads and comments in Talk Morgan. It seems unlikely to me that the brake cylinder was designed specifically for the CX models. I assume it was designed and produced with specified materials for use in other cars (MMC do not appear to have the resources to finance the design and development of a specific brake cylinder for the CX models). Also It also seems unlikely to me that the brake fluid is specific to Morgan CX cars. As such the brake cylinder as a complete component was accepted as suitable by MMC with or without modification a fitting the technical requirements based not only on a proper evaluation by its own engineers but also in reliance upon the third party warranting that it would meet the technical requirements and assemble each one to the required specification and quality.

In such or like circumstances I am at loss to understand why MMC not been given details about how the present situation has arisen that is to say been frank and open about what is going on given the actual or likely reputational damage to the marque and loss of goodwill with its customers including the selling dealers who have stock which they cannot sell. This kind of damage is likely to destroy the impact of the many favourable reviews in the press and elsewhere and expose MMC to serious criticism. The retail outlets/dealers have been apparently left in an embarrassing position where they cannot deal with legitimate questions from customers and sell new or used CX Morgans,

It the circumstances I say and trust that others will agree that the MMC was and is under an obligation to fully explain in neutral terms how the present state of affairs has arisen. The letter of the 8th June and the subsequent email/letter of the 24th June are wholly inadequate as appears from the comments below.

The list of matters of concern below is not intended to be complete or exclusive

1. As to “ongoing quality assessment” - any quality assessment should have been completed before the CX went on the market. The inference is that such an assessment by MMC or a third party failed to identify the fault which must have appeared in the course of servicing or complaints by drivers as to braking while driving or in the course of an inquiry as to the cause of an accident/collision.
2. On the basis that the brake cylinder including seals and brake fluid must be common to other recently manufactured cars, it would be significant that there has not or has been a vehicle recall in respect of cars with identical brake cylinders unless there is some other fault in construction or design peculiar to CX cars (not necessarily in the brake cylinder) for example use of the alloy which turned out to be porous exclusively in brake cylinders supplied to MMC in accordance with or contrary to the agreed specifications.
3. Whether or not MMC has the financial resources to remedy the situation with or without recourse to the third party supplier of the brake cylinder (which hopefully is a substantial concern good for the money unless MMC is solely responsible for the present situation).
4. Unless the cause of the degradation is identified with certainty used values will be seriously affected.
5. No indication is given as to the time involved so that no owners may make for themselves a realistic decision whether or not to apply for a SORN or to vary insurance cover despite the administrative cost. Of particular concern is this regard is the question of how long it will take to produce replacement components given the present economic upheavals

Others may not have the same concerns or different concerns but I say with respect to all that is about time MMC started to be open and frank . My patience and presumably the patience of others has worn thin.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/07/22 08:00 PM

Hawki of this parish who lost his long in & can't get a new one yet from Simon hasnot seen any progress. The dealer clearly has no idea of when this agony ends.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/07/22 09:03 PM

Couple of personal observations if I had a CX

Bang it on SORN now, you can re-tax it in 5 minutes when needed

You won't get any reduction in insurance cost (used to be called laid up) as they are covering stuff like theft, fire, your paint tin shelf falling off the wall on it, etc. I enquired during the Covid lockdown
Posted By: Charles75

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 05:26 AM

A little update from Morgan.



"Dear Morgan customer,

We are sincerely sorry for the disruption that you have faced as a result of the stop drive recall affecting Morgan Plus Four and Plus Six vehicles. We are eager to communicate updates to affected customers as regularly as possible.

We have been validating a technical fix as thoroughly and swiftly as possible, and this process is nearing completion. Whilst we must await the final results of this process, along with the sourcing of components, we are pleased to say that early indications are leading to a high level of confidence in the fix.

Once this process is complete, we plan to begin shipping the required parts to the Morgan dealer network, allowing them to begin rectification works to affected cars.

The next step will be for your Morgan dealer to contact you to arrange for your vehicle to be rectified.

Thank you again for your patience whilst we deal with these challenging circumstances. Please be assured that we continue to work tirelessly to get your Morgan sports car back on the road as quickly as possible.

Yours faithfully,

Morgan Motor Company"
Posted By: JMD

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 07:06 AM

I do not envy Morgan management (and the company owners) on this. Clear safety related issue means the level of risk required the stop/don't drive decision. Morgan do not have the scale of resource nor the dealer network to deal with this quickly - they need to re-engineer/validate/source the solution (and the one for the radiators) and mobilise the small number of dealers to deal with 4+ years of production/sales.

From my own experience of managing such issues in a big corporate, this will take months to fix and require huge effort on end customer relationships...another huge challenge for small Morgan and limited number dealers...

This is the "hidden" risk of buying a car from a small specialist esp as car systems get ever more complex requiring much engineering effort to be applied to the digital bits which may mean the basics (brakes/cooling) are treated as "simple to get right".

They sort of got away with it with the M3W although for us early owners it has been a bit of a journey with a couple of periods of "don't drive" (chassis/brake pedal). Very sorry for Plus Six/Four owners who will likely miss all this summer...

The objective of the Plus Four/Six and the new Super 3 is to arttact new customers who may not appreciate what they are buying ....
Posted By: SBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 07:15 AM

It's going to take longer to get the fix sorted than it is to build another car, so reject them as unsuitable, and get another one as & when..?
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 07:16 AM

Latest from Krazy Horse. Hopefully good news.

Dear CX owners



Firstly sorry for not sending this email at the start of the week as I usually do. I have been waiting for a call today with Morgan.



I have now had this call and can give you the following update. I have been told that Morgan intend to start supplying dealers with upgrade components next week, we are therefore starting to look at the logistics of collecting car’s and planning our workshops.



To clarify the situation, car’s that have not previously had a radiator issue will be rectified at KrazyHorse, cars that have had a radiator replaced previously will be rectified at Morgan. Morgan have arranged for a logistics company to collect all of the latter car’s directly and Krazyhorse will collect all of the others. It will be useful for us and Morgan if anyone has access issues for collection, to let us know so we can, between us and Morgan find the best way to collect the car’s.



The components that will be changed at KrazyHorse will be the master cylinder and a new swirl chamber for the cooling system. This will take around 4 hours per car. Car’s at Morgan will also have a new radiator fitted which as it requires removing the wings and cowl will take longer.



There will be an official email coming directly to all CX owners from Morgan, I was hoping it would be today but you should see it tomorrow.



I would like to thank you once again for your patience, we at KrazyHorse are doing everything we can to get this resolved as quickly as possible.
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 07:24 AM

So the dealer can't spell plural of cars correctly, either! laugh2

I have seen a number of cars having the cooling system changes while conducting tours. smile
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 07:58 AM

Thanks for that update John - I guess your chum down there got his through KH who appear to be good at comms…

It is annoying that on one hand my usual dealership sent me the email last Thursday which spoke about separate contact from the car collection company to transport my Mog to MMC, and yesterday MMC sent me an email saying they are still validating the solution in preparation for stuff to go to the dealers for them to fix. I realise it’s a standard email from MMC but if they know I’ve got a CX they should also have the detail of which dealership mine went through and, I would assume in this modern computer world, some knowledge that they’ve told my dealer that my car has to go to MMC for fixing…. I realise MMC is a small company but the contradiction in info coming to me is simply adding to my annoyance at yet another problem (one of at least seven noteworthy things over the past 16 months which have needed resolution where poss, speakers in the front still can’t be heard-grrrr) with my costly vehicle (i appreciate all v minor in the grand scheme of things going wrong in this world)…
I retired last year, in part, to spend more time in Belle and, as others have pointed out, I am missing out on the best months of the year for driving her.
I should add I went into mog ownership with eyes wide open in respect of “they all do that sir” with my Trad but hoped with the higher cost and more modern approach to things for the CX that it wouldn’t be as frustrating….
I love Morgan cars but the lustre is not as shiny as it was once and my inexplicable need to defend them against criticism from outsiders is being sorely tested…
I won’t be going anywhere regardless (because of that deep seated passion) (plus I’m not allowed to drive at present) but am currently residing as “Deeply Frustrated, just North of Stamford”.
#rantmodeoffagain
HB
Posted By: SimonH

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by John V6
Hawki of this parish who lost his long in & can't get a new one yet from Simon hasnot seen any progress. The dealer clearly has no idea of when this agony ends.


A new one?
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 01:05 PM

Not you Simon the other simon. Gary is trying to get a new log in but without success
Posted By: sospan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 01:10 PM

Porosity from casting is an ever present problem to be checked for. Different processes are used for different metals/alloys and end use requirements.
Turbine blades for jet engines used to be cast by he investment ( lost wax) method and 100% inspected. They had a high failure rate.
Rimming steel, as made in bulk for rolling to thin sections ( car bodies, white goods) needed the initial outer layer solidifying cleanly and directionally so chilling was one method to speed up that. The body of the ingot ( the last to solidify) was encouraged to effervesce and allow gases to escape. Subsequent rolling welded up the remaining internal porosity. Any porosity at the surface would simply split open during rolling.
We made engineering steels and used surface crack detection and ultrasonic methods for sub surface defect detection. This allowed us to prevent any suspect batches getting through that would compromise future use/safety.
Cast metals can also carry over impurities from the melting/refining. Microscopic examination is used to identify this type of thing. A scale of cleanliness is used to evaluate it. Compare what you see down the microscope to standard photographs.
The bottom line is stipulating the manufacturing process and quality standard to apply. The more safety critical the tighter the requirements. Finishing techniques for a cast item must be in place to ensure it doesn’t carry over defects.
One thing to notice is when a supplier describes a product as “ machined from billet stock”. This means the item has been rolled ( usually) to change the internal structure away from cast to a wrought one. A stronger, less defect prone product and with some enhanced directional properties.
Lining a brake cylinder with a suitable material is a sensible option that reduces the need for enhanced casting requirements. Accept a level of “ defect” and counter it. Reduces initial casting cost/ intricacy with a more robust finish and hopefully cheaper.
Posted By: WAFU_Tom

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 01:29 PM

Just spoken to MMC. Two brake master cylinder products are in the final stages of trialling before being confirmed as the fix. Cars with previously reported radiator issues will go to the factory to have the cooling system addressed at the same time as the braking system. A logistics firm called Acumen will be in contact with affected owners. My name and car were on the list from Williams. If you're affected, it may be worth confirming with your dealer that they've given MMC your most up to date contact details (MMC had the incorrect address for me). They're expecting to get cars into the factory from 18 July.
Posted By: SCX358G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 02:20 PM

With starting too much thread drift, can anyone answer this question? I thought that the introduction of dual circuit brakes (in the 60s/70s?) was supposed to provide redundancy in case of brake failure in modern cars, so improving the safety of the design. (I certainly remember a master brake failure in my mother's Renault 12 in the early 70s removing just about all of the braking capability. But we still drove it the dealer - I guess using the handbrake - it was only a few miles). If the failure of the master cylinder is a single point of failure in both supposedly redundant brake circuits, isn't that a significant weakness in the design? Dual circuit brakes do provide some level of braking if a single wheel cylinder fails and fluid is lost from one of the brake circuits of course, but it is a bit disappointing if there is not full redundancy.

Does a modern master cylinder have dual pistons and keep the two brake circuits completely independent, thus providing redundancy? Or, can the seals in the master cylinder fail in such a way there is a total loss of braking capability ?

Just curious......
Posted By: Luddite

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 03:41 PM

I suspect your thinking re dual circuit brakes would in past times have most folk still running their cars, but in these litigous times there seems little chance that folk can evaluate risks to any degree as wee might have in past times..? Dual circuit brakes tend to start off with a master cylinder supply tank that is split into two seperate sections each section feeding it`s half of the braking system via seperate inputs to the master cylinder. The master cylinder is usually operated by one pushrod acting on both circuits. the pistons are linked one behind the other each with it`s own seal, thus two seals acting on the cylinder.
With the system split in this way enven if one system fails to the extent that all the fluid leaks out the other system should still operate with it`s seperate fluid supply.

If there is an internal failing in the master cylinder as in the brake pedal might feel softer than usual, if possible take the lid of the master cylinder and while looking in then have someone apply the brakes hard and check to see if there is any disturbance on the surface of the brake fluid.... Usually if a seal is failing tsome of the he pressure applied to the master cylinder can escape back past a failing seal to cause disturbance as described...

Hope this helps and does not muddy the water... I am NO expert. oldgit
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 04:25 PM

DalesPlusFour shared some photos on his Factory Tour thread which shows the unit quite well.

https://i.imgur.com/1Lvr6ed.jpg[Linked Image]

or in close up is this bit

[Linked Image]

I guess the two down pipes are the two circuits. The bar is the dual chambers as Luddite was outlining which is the culprit ?
I was going to make a joke about only having a single circuit leg to push it but that's probably only my sense of humour.

Love the colour on the Plus Four.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 06:16 PM

On my car the pedal was soft since the beginning . And the travel before braking veryyyyy long. Even on wet ground impossible to activate the abs.
Posted By: Jack & Jill 602

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 07:20 PM

I thought brake master cylinders were meant to be mounted horizontally?
Posted By: Haytop

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/07/22 10:21 PM

As to putting my CX on SORN, it is not clear from the inquiries I have made on the web what refund/allowance is made in respect of the £500 p.a. surcharge which I paid when renewing the road fund licence either proportionally or otherwise

As insurance my inquiries reveal that during a SORN it is possible to obtain a reduction in the premium if the cover for use on the highway is removed from the policy.

Obviously anyone applying for a SORN will need to make there own inquiries in relation to these two matters.
Posted By: Mikemog6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/07/22 06:06 AM

Road tax refund is calculated by dividing the total paid including surcharge by 12, so if you had 6 month's Refund it would be 50%of the total paid.
Posted By: DRR

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/07/22 08:23 AM

There is no point in SORN at this time of the month, you only get back full months. I SORNed mine on 30th June. I would suggest that if it drags on till the end of the month and still no dates, then SORN it then.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/07/22 02:48 PM

Still no parts at my dealer.
Ik have asked if i could pay myself for the master cylinder change.
But the factory say no.
Posted By: 1560

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/07/22 05:29 PM

If they do have to calibrate the new version of the master cylinder, we’ll be stuck for another few months…
I’m getting frustrated, but life never was ment to be an easy ride, hope Morgan can surprise us in a positive way :-)
Posted By: sospan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/07/22 05:32 PM

The non availability of parts and checking the replacements so far is the main delay. Once they are checked/ certified then the stocks will be released to MMC/ dealers. Any stocks will likely be allocated by the suppliers to MMC initially. Manufacturing of the parts is either underway or imminent based on acceptance of them after testing.
Posted By: Capt Aero

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/07/22 06:11 PM

Dealers were expecting an announcement this afternoon. Seems the fix is almost ready.
Plus Four coming ............
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/07/22 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Capt Aero
Dealers were expecting an announcement this afternoon. Seems the fix is almost ready.
Plus Four coming ............


Fingers crossed....
Posted By: Taffmog

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/07/22 11:50 PM

Apparently some 300 fix kits are being despatched to dealers this week..
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/07/22 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by Taffmog
Apparently some 300 fix kits are being despatched to dealers this week..


That's good news - at least 25% of the need. Hopefully the rest won't be long behind.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/07/22 07:33 AM

That is good news for all concerned , lets hope it is a permanent fix!
Posted By: Quicksilver

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/07/22 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by JohnHarris
That is good news for all concerned , lets hope it is a permanent fix!


It has to be a permanent fix. Morgan's reputation can't take another shredding.
Posted By: Robbie

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/07/22 05:44 PM

Is there any news as to cars going back to the factory, or the time they will take I have had the rad changed on my car ,so I believe mine may have to go back. I have a ferry booking for 03/09/2022 so need to know!

Cheers!
Posted By: p8mog

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 13/07/22 07:18 PM

My car has to go back to the factory as well and my ferry booking is for the 04/09/22, so come on MMC. Please let us know!!!!! 😡
Posted By: Charles75

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/07/22 06:21 AM

Morning Guys,

It's incomprehensible and I don't feel like waiting, so I bought a master cylinder for a Jeep, Lancia, which I think will fit. My workshop then builds one for me. I'll let you know if it works.
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/07/22 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Charles75
Morning Guys,

It's incomprehensible and I don't feel like waiting, so I bought a master cylinder for a Jeep, Lancia, which I think will fit. My workshop then builds one for me. I'll let you know if it works.




Understand the immense frustration…but of course, your action could well invalidate your warranty…but maybe it’s a case of “what the hell…”
Posted By: DRR

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/07/22 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by Charles75
Morning Guys,

It's incomprehensible and I don't feel like waiting, so I bought a master cylinder for a Jeep, Lancia, which I think will fit. My workshop then builds one for me. I'll let you know if it works.

May have to declare to your insurer that the car is modified

Posted By: Charles75

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/07/22 08:06 AM

It's just for the time until Morgan can deliver the right part. who knows how long that will take?
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/07/22 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Charles75
Morning Guys,

It's incomprehensible and I don't feel like waiting, so I bought a master cylinder for a Jeep, Lancia, which I think will fit. My workshop then builds one for me. I'll let you know if it works.




Good luck Charles
Posted By: Mike Woodroffe

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/07/22 08:49 PM

I've been told that Morgan will be sending out an email at 12 noon tomorrow containing good news. Fingers crossed. Mike
Posted By: RichardV6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Mike Woodroffe
I've been told that Morgan will be sending out an email at 12 noon tomorrow containing good news. Fingers crossed. Mike


Waiting waiting
Posted By: Robbie

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 11:38 AM

Also waiting!!!
Posted By: Dada

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 12:30 PM

We can open a club....
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 01:26 PM

Me too, still waiting….and we’ve gone past the 10 day period during which we were told we’d be contacted by the car collection company to take the Mog to MMC…
HB
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 01:54 PM

Everything crossed for you CX boys and girls sherlock
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 02:05 PM

Good luck guys I hope you get some clarity soon.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 02:06 PM

The more this goes on the more MMCs credibility will reduce. As far as I know, nobody has a date for completion of their Morgan and we have not been told why this occurred. Treated with contempt or like mushrooms springs to mind.
Posted By: Mikemog6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 03:07 PM

I think we are being fed BS.
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 03:41 PM

Email arrived.
Simply confirms that the fix has now been approved and parts will be sent in batches to the dealers as they are made. Unfortunately, nothing about the cars which will need to be shipped to MMC nor timescales…
Still, a step in right direction being positive….
HB
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 03:44 PM

I have just received an email from the factory to say that parts will be shipped to dealers next week. All MMC is offering in compensation is a 3 month extension of warranty, That is incredibly mean and insulting, as it will most probably cost MMC nothing. At the very least it should offer the next service free. No mention of being able to do a one-off drive to our dealerships, so we have to wait ages for transportation. Stupid really as the Civil Aviation Authority often authorises a one-off flight (without passengers) back to base for rectification. Time is now of the essence, so why can we not drive our Morgans to the dealership? Nothing wrong with my brakes.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 04:00 PM

Further to my last, I note the email states 'We anticipate the first parts will be released early next week'; that could mean only a possibility' of 1 master cylinder per dealer by Friday next. I'm not holding my breath,
Posted By: MikeFromPembroke

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Derek596
I have just received an email from the factory to say that parts will be shipped to dealers next week. All MMC is offering in compensation is a 3 month extension of warranty, That is incredibly mean and insulting, as it will most probably cost MMC nothing. At the very least it should offer the next service free. No mention of being able to do a one-off drive to our dealerships, so we have to wait ages for transportation. Stupid really as the Civil Aviation Authority often authorises a one-off flight (without passengers) back to base for rectification. Time is now of the essence, so why can we not drive our Morgans to the dealership? Nothing wrong with my brakes.



This was included in a reply to my request for clarification with my insurance company:
“They have advised you would be covered to drive your vehicle to a pre booked safety recall appointment only until the issue has been rectified.“
However for me it would cost 2 tanks of fuel and an overnight stop……
Posted By: DRR

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 04:25 PM

I presume, and would not blame the dealers, that as not knowing how many kits they will receive, that they do the cars they have on the forecourt first, allowing their sales to resume. Once they then know how many they receive and how often they expect the deliveries, they will arrange our repairs. I hope we all remain courteous with our dealers regardless of been the first called or the last, let’s face it they have struggled through this as much as us.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by DRR
I presume, and would not blame the dealers, that as not knowing how many kits they will receive, that they do the cars they have on the forecourt first, allowing their sales to resume. Once they then know how many they receive and how often they expect the deliveries, they will arrange our repairs. I hope we all remain courteous with our dealers regardless of been the first called or the last, let’s face it they have struggled through this as much as us.


Absolutely, the Dealership are suffering just as much as many of us. They cannot sell CX platform cars, possibly have a cash flow problem and probably are getting their ears bent by irate owners. And none is their fault at all. I for one have made that clear to my dealership and feel sorry for them just as much as for someo f us.
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Derek596
I have just received an email from the factory to say that parts will be shipped to dealers next week. All MMC is offering in compensation is a 3 month extension of warranty, That is incredibly mean and insulting, as it will most probably cost MMC nothing. At the very least it should offer the next service free. No mention of being able to do a one-off drive to our dealerships, so we have to wait ages for transportation. Stupid really as the Civil Aviation Authority often authorises a one-off flight (without passengers) back to base for rectification. Time is now of the essence, so why can we not drive our Morgans to the dealership? Nothing wrong with my brakes.



I agree with you Derek.Christ 3 months extra warranty - big deal! The three months Summer that we will lose is worth far more than 3 months warranty which mine will fall in the months of Dec, Jan and Feb when the car isn't much used anyway. I don't know why I'm surprised to be honest.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 05:28 PM

I was talking to Phil at Gott and Wynne today about Morgan Insurance and we ended up talking about the CX brakes. Their view is that a single journey to a dealer, as long as the brakes appear to be working normally, would not be whilst uninsured as long as the insurer was notified and agreed.
My Aero Super Sport Roadster (that is what the V5 says) cost me £548 to insure, based on 5000 miles and £79,999 agreed value. A new CX Plus Four would be about £100 more. He also mentioned another PlusSix bit the dust this week, £104,000.He said my estimate of 15% destroyed was about right. All the Plus Six cars they have paid out on have been single vehicle accidents, no injuries to the driver. The common explanation is "I lost control".
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 05:59 PM

If the failure leads to the inability to use the car for an extended period and they wanted to show good will I would have thought paying for the road tax for an equal duration of the gap might be a start.

I would not turn down the warranty extension at this point.
Posted By: DRR

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jonathan G
Originally Posted by Derek596
I have just received an email from the factory to say that parts will be shipped to dealers next week. All MMC is offering in compensation is a 3 month extension of warranty, That is incredibly mean and insulting, as it will most probably cost MMC nothing. At the very least it should offer the next service free. No mention of being able to do a one-off drive to our dealerships, so we have to wait ages for transportation. Stupid really as the Civil Aviation Authority often authorises a one-off flight (without passengers) back to base for rectification. Time is now of the essence, so why can we not drive our Morgans to the dealership? Nothing wrong with my brakes.



I agree with you Derek.Christ 3 months extra warranty - big deal! The three months Summer that we will lose is worth far more than 3 months warranty which mine will fall in the months of Dec, Jan and Feb when the car isn't much used anyway. I don't know why I'm surprised to be honest.


Totally agree, my car arrived late October so extension is 3 winter months. Worries me that they have little confidence in their own product.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Alistair
If the failure leads to the inability to use the car for an extended period and they wanted to show good will I would have thought paying for the road tax for an equal duration of the gap might be a start.

I would not turn down the warranty extension at this point.

Agreed, may have considerable value for failed radiators just outside the original period
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 06:32 PM

I don’t think you can turn it down. That is what you get. My point is what value is it if it’s in the Winter months when it’s hardly being used?
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 06:38 PM

I'd be very surprised if they don't take a flexible approach once they have sorted these immediate 2 problems out.

An upgrade to the best quality seats for the early CX adopters would be a good start.

Maybe a few free extras as a goodwill gesture to the new or expectant PATIENT owners.
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/07/22 07:32 PM

In my experience Morgan don’t give anything away. If they do it’ll be a first.
Posted By: Prop Man

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 12:48 AM

For the first time I’m glad my Plus Four won’t be built until next year - I’ve been patiently waiting for 18 months and counting since I out my deposit down. Maybe they’ll have this major crap totally sorted and I’ll get a relatively reliable one! I still go in the configurator once every week or so and play with my build. Here I am in the high desert of California near Joshua Tree patiently waiting . . .
Posted By: JMD

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 08:24 AM

15% of Plus Six destroyed in (mainly single vehicle?) accidents....that won't do Morgan's claim that most of their historic production is still running....and it could make the early 911 look safe!
Posted By: IMHO

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Jonathan G
In my experience Morgan don’t give anything away. If they do it’ll be a first.


You are so right.

Here’s an example: I paid Morgan £1500 to collect my car and strengthen the lower wishbone connections on my M3W (a known cracking point). It was delivered back and they hadn’t repainted the weld area which was already rusting (where is their QC?). After a discussion I offered to repaint them myself as they refused to collect it again (even though I had paid for this the first time) and they would send the paint they recommend. After two weeks off the road, nothing arrived (they never sent it) so I bought the paint myself. Morgan plain refused to reimburse me the £30 cost of the paint. QED.
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by IMHO
Originally Posted by Jonathan G
In my experience Morgan don’t give anything away. If they do it’ll be a first.


You are so right.

Here’s an example: I paid Morgan £1500 to collect my car and strengthen the lower wishbone connections on my M3W (a known cracking point). It was delivered back and they hadn’t repainted the weld area which was already rusting (where is their QC?). After a discussion I offered to repaint them myself as they refused to collect it again (even though I had paid for this the first time) and they would send the paint they recommend. After two weeks off the road, nothing arrived (they never sent it) so I bought the paint myself. Morgan plain refused to reimburse me the £30 cost of the paint. QED.



I think I can beat that at least for penny pinching. I bought a 12 plate 3 wheeler about 18 months ago. On removing the fuse box cover early last year I realised there was no Fuse Label anywhere to be seen. I contacted them and yes they had some so as I live close I drove in and picked it up from the service department when I was told some early ones didn't have them. The charge was £3.25 plus vat for something that should have been on the car anyway. What good is a fuse box without a diagram telling you what each fuse is? I was told they would put the charge on the service that was already booked in for a few weeks later. I honestly didn't expect them to but hey prestp when I got the bill which was £1,320 plus vat cos other things needed attention it was there - M3W Fuse Label £3.25 plus VAT. So funny to even think Morgan are thinking of, never mind going to be, upgrading anything for free. I hope they do but not a chance is my opinion.
Posted By: IMHO

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 10:50 AM

Mind you Jonathan, there is the story of my £15 Porsche key fob replacement …..


Morgan Economics -

Fuse label ( £3.25) = customer satisfaction (priceless)

General Auto Industry Economics -

Every disillusioned customer tells 10 people = We can make 6 million Brits unhappy before it becomes a problem, add in export and it never does!
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 10:53 AM

Fuse labels may or may not represent the reality of the fusebox. Just saying.
Posted By: Budster

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Jonathan G
Originally Posted by IMHO
Originally Posted by Jonathan G
In my experience Morgan don’t give anything away. If they do it’ll be a first.


You are so right.

Here’s an example: I paid Morgan £1500 to collect my car and strengthen the lower wishbone connections on my M3W (a known cracking point). It was delivered back and they hadn’t repainted the weld area which was already rusting (where is their QC?). After a discussion I offered to repaint them myself as they refused to collect it again (even though I had paid for this the first time) and they would send the paint they recommend. After two weeks off the road, nothing arrived (they never sent it) so I bought the paint myself. Morgan plain refused to reimburse me the £30 cost of the paint. QED.



I think I can beat that at least for penny pinching. I bought a 12 plate 3 wheeler about 18 months ago. On removing the fuse box cover early last year I realised there was no Fuse Label anywhere to be seen. I contacted them and yes they had some so as I live close I drove in and picked it up from the service department when I was told some early ones didn't have them. The charge was £3.25 plus vat for something that should have been on the car anyway. What good is a fuse box without a diagram telling you what each fuse is? I was told they would put the charge on the service that was already booked in for a few weeks later. I honestly didn't expect them to but hey prestp when I got the bill which was £1,320 plus vat cos other things needed attention it was there - M3W Fuse Label £3.25 plus VAT. So funny to even think Morgan are thinking of, never mind going to be, upgrading anything for free. I hope they do but not a chance is my opinion.





I know that I risk sounding like a oldgit on this subject, but what a change!

Many of us on this site go back many years with their Morgan ownership.
I have memories of calling in and finding that nothing was too much trouble for the Service Department.
They were a delight to deal with.
As an example; in November 2011, we took the 4/4 to the factory to have a new Everflex Easy-up hood fitted.
(Booked through the local dealer).
The car was dropped off the previous evening, so they could make an early start.
Hood fitted by 4pm and a free tour of the factory included.
(I had asked that they extend the window flaps slightly and add some Stanley coloured piping).
New seals fitted, a fantastic job and at a cost of less than £550, including vat!
Charles even came out to say “hello” and ask if the work was to our liking.

Yes, having read this, I do sound like a oldgit, but I can’t imagine this level of service today.

Good luck to all Plus Four and Six owners, in getting your cars fixed.

Bud
4/4 - Stanley
budster
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by DaveW
Fuse labels may or may not represent the reality of the fusebox. Just saying.


Yep agreed but better to have one than not have one
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 12:09 PM

Mine is a Plus Four which I had new last November. It is absolutely fantastic and I'm sure they'll all be fixed in the near future and we'll soon forget all of this. I moan a bit but if I could turn the clock back I wouldn't have anything else - unless it was a Plus Six of course.
Posted By: nick w

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 12:24 PM

I too remember when the parts department were very helpful indeed, and the chap who road tested every car took me out (this was before my first Morgan). And Charles saying hello in a most friendly way,. And the staff at various shows (like the three counties etc.) on the stands, or display gardens, actually recognising us when we visited.

Then the change. The last new car I purchased referred to in another post needed alot of sorting over several weeks during which the dealer lent me a Fiat 500 .
I received an enormous bill for the repairs, over a couple of thousand pounds (the car was a couple of months old) which I had to pay to get my car back. Discussions followed with both the dealer and the factory. No action until I informed the dealer that as they had supplied it I couldn't take action againt MMC but would have to reluctantly take legal action against them, the dealer. At which point they presumably applied sufficient pressure and the factory refunded about 70%. I was still pretty unhappy though as the factory would only refund the price of labour per hour which they paid the dealer, not the figure the dealer charged me per hour which was about twice the amount.

So, one unhappy customer, going away muttering about how things had gone downhill since Charles left, as I remain completely convinced that a call to Charles would have seen a proper refund issued for what was after all a complete failure of the product which had incidentally ruined a trip to the west country and left me without a Mog for that summer.

So I feel your pain CX owners.

Strangely, I still love the cars even though I have returned to an older model and I'm much happier now.

Nick
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 12:46 PM

Even as late as 2019, when I collected my Plus 4 Aero Racing Exhaust system at the Factory, and then returned to have the ECU flash applied, I received excellent service from start to finish.

The only problems I've really had is a sometimes long delay in supplying parts. In 2013 when I ordered an over-rider kit for my previous Plus 4 via the dealer, at a time when such kits were part of every day production, I think it took about six weeks, and a lot of prodding and poking.
Posted By: Mikemog6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 12:50 PM

Nick,. Sad story, enough to destroy your faith in Morgan, was the car out of warranty? If it was the dealer was surely responsible as the car was not fit for purpose when he sold it to you.
Posted By: nick w

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Mikemog6
Nick,. Sad story, enough to destroy your faith in Morgan, was the car out of warranty? If it was the dealer was surely responsible as the car was not fit for purpose when he sold it to you.


The car was only a couple of months old...that was what was so upsetting!
What upset me most was that it didn't destroy my love of the brand !!
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 01:24 PM

Whenever I have visited I have always been well looked after and always recognised at the factory. The friendliest manufacturing facility I have ever been to and I’ve been to a few. Visiting is always a pleasure.
Posted By: nick w

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 04:03 PM

I agree, visiting the factory is always lovely and all the staff brilliant.
It's just dealing with problems when it all gets difficult.
Nick
Posted By: AKD

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 04:18 PM

My first time posting. Just want to say thanks for providing updates on how this issue is progressing. This forum was the only place where I could find at least some answers to the problem that’s grounded my Plus Six. Was planning a trip in her starting in 3 weeks and looks increasingly unlikely.
Although MMC are supplying some info, there is nothing to indicate when the fix kits will reach dealerships in EU locations. I’m in Germany and so I expect I will have to wait even longer, as anything coming here now from the UK has a longer lead time thanks to BREXIT (not that I want to start a discussion about that 🙄)
I’m lucky to also have the Roadster but seeing the Plus Six just sit in the garage for the last 6 weeks is depressing. First world problem, but still disappointing! I also really sympathise with the dealers who are caught in the middle of this mess with stock they can’t sell - costing them a lot at this time of year.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 05:23 PM

This is very strange. My dealer asked if i have more info on the forum than they have.
Today the weather was so nice and we have been to an aeromodelism jet meeting.
Some nice roads in Wallonie but without the morgan. It is sad .
Posted By: PiGo

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 09:34 PM

I hope this issue is fixed very quickly for all CX owners! I bought my Morgan 1,5 years ago as a daily driver and had to learn the hard way that the car is not up to the job. Now the 8th radiator needs to go in the car and the car is garaged for 1,5 months due to the brake issue. Because I need to be mobile for my job I have decided to reluctantly send it back to the dealer and get myself another daily :-(.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 09:50 PM

You have my utmost sympathy - for what it is worth and can only apologise on behalf of what precious little there is left of British engineering.

Hoping for a proper radiator and brake fix for all 1274 of you CX guys and girls.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 10:09 PM

+1.i hope mmc sort this rapidly
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/07/22 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by PiGo
I hope this issue is fixed very quickly for all CX owners! I bought my Morgan 1,5 years ago as a daily driver and had to learn the hard way that the car is not up to the job. Now the 8th radiator needs to go in the car and the car is garaged for 1,5 months due to the brake issue. Because I need to be mobile for my job I have decided to reluctantly send it back to the dealer and get myself another daily :-(.

Very Sad but understandable....
Good luck PiGo
Posted By: Mikemog6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 08:53 AM

Eight radiators in two years! Must be a world record , do Guinness know?
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 09:42 AM

Eight rads does seem somewhat extreme (my sympathies Pigo)….I am only on my second and must confess a little confusion as to why, if mine has had the fix, that it has to go back to the factory for both the brakes and to fit yet another radiator. Does this mean the first fix is expected to go wrong again (obv. Pigo’s experience would indicate a possibility) - are there other regular failures in the supposed rad fix elsewhere in the CX world, I wonder, that means MMC are taking the opportunity whilst they are sorting the brakes…
It’s a shame really especially as we are missing out on some cracking top down driving weather in the U.K. at present.
Must confess I have avoided contacting my dealership entirely throughout this issue (bar replying to a couple of emails) as I could see no reason or benefit to picking up the phone and having a pop at someone who is simply selling a product provided by MMC. I don’t really want to add to their no doubt extreme frustrations and undo a good relationship that I have with them.
C’est la vie
HB
Posted By: Budster

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 09:47 AM

8th radiator!!
My friend with a new Plus Four, is on his third or maybe fourth radiator and I thought that was bad enough.
He loves the Plus Four but gets nostalgic about his (totally reliable) 2009 Anniversary 3.0ltr Roadster that he part exchanged.
However he does have a lovely 1986 Porsche Targa to use on sunny days whilst the brakes are being fixed on the Morgan.
Bud
4/4 - Stanley
budster
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 11:11 AM

My car has already 3 radiators , the third is leaking, but only few drops.
The reservoir cap has been changed after the third radiator.
Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 11:14 AM

As others have said, the 3 month warranty extension is poor compensation. If MMC are serious about maintaining / repairing their reputation then they need to look at this again.
The only other observation I would make is what lovely people you are on here! Too lovely. So many posts saying don’t be too harsh on MMC and be nice to the dealers because they have stock they can’t sell and we should feel sorry for them.
Whilst I agree there is no point blaming or having a go at anyone, both my dealer and MMC have my money. They are in a lot more control of the situation than I am and the dealers will have a lot more influence over MMC than I do. The only thing I have is c.£80k of unusable car sat in the garage. So right now the only people I am feeling sorry for are myself and the other 1273 people in my situation.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Adrian777
As others have said, the 3 month warranty extension is poor compensation. If MMC are serious about maintaining / repairing their reputation then they need to look at this again.
The only other observation I would make is what lovely people you are on here! Too lovely. So many posts saying don’t be too harsh on MMC and be nice to the dealers because they have stock they can’t sell and we should feel sorry for them.
Whilst I agree there is no point blaming or having a go at anyone, both my dealer and MMC have my money. They are in a lot more control of the situation than I am and the dealers will have a lot more influence over MMC than I do. The only thing I have is c.£80k of unusable car sat in the garage. So right now the only people I am feeling sorry for are myself and the other 1273 people in my situation.



Lets hope that a permanent fix is found and faith in the product restored.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 01:34 PM

I just feel so sorry for PiGo (above post) having to hand his car back to the dealer permanently as after 8 radiator changes he has had to give up on his dream Morgan.

Unlike others this was his only car and consequently it needed to be functioning all the while as he is still working, he has had to get a tintop daily to replace it as a result, very sad and tbh at 80k an extremely bad joke at his expense.
Posted By: Mikemog6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 02:08 PM

When the first batch of radiators began to fail, engineers would surely have looked at the reason why this had occurred, either poor build quality or badly designed rads, if it was engineering fail the only long term fix would be to redesign the rad, BMW would have provided all the relevant tech specs regarding cooling. As it effects bother Plus Four and Plus Six it looks more likely to be poor quality material, they would have been pressure tested and past the test, so I believe the fix is a new header which is only part filed this would probably allow for expansion of the coolant, leading me to think increased pressure in the rads caused the rads to split.
The cost to MCC to replace all these rads under warranty is huge and the total cost for both fixes will probably result in future model releases put on hold.
What I don't get is why the cars that have had replacement rads have to go back to the factory?
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 02:15 PM

I have not knowingly had any radiator problems - does it affect Plus 6s or just Plus 4s?

Is it part of the dealer fix along with brakes or will rads only be fixed if they leak?
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Mikemog6
When the first batch of radiators began to fail, engineers would surely have looked at the reason why this had occurred, either poor build quality or badly designed rads, if it was engineering fail the only long term fix would be to redesign the rad, BMW would have provided all the relevant tech specs regarding cooling. As it effects bother Plus Four and Plus Six it looks more likely to be poor quality material, they would have been pressure tested and past the test, so I believe the fix is a new header which is only part filed this would probably allow for expansion of the coolant, leading me to think increased pressure in the rads caused the rads to split.
The cost to MCC to replace all these rads under warranty is huge and the total cost for both fixes will probably result in future model releases put on hold.
What I don't get is why the cars that have had replacement rads have to go back to the factory?


The question really Mike is what happens to the leaking radiators, which are "almost new". Do we think that there is a skip full of faulty radiators, or do we think that repaired radiators are refitted? I don't know the answer, but one option is much less costly than the other. Perhaps the final solution radiator is a brand new approach which is to be installed in all CX Morgans.

Let's not forget that the plastic tanked radiators in the Trads were prone to fail, but after a much longer period. A known issue with Trads and the mountings were eventually modified in an attempt to stop the fails. Not the same issue of course but another illustration of how MMC manages faults. This whole thing will test MMC finances and all we can hope is that they get through it intact, and learn some lessons.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 04:34 PM

Could someone enlighten me as to how the radiators are actually failing? Are they cracking due to vibration, or bursting due to excess pressure?

If the former, could the rubber mountings not be improved, and if the latter, could you not simply fit a vented or low-pressure cap on the expansion tank to stop the system over-pressurising?

If I had one of the affected cars I'd much rather keep an eye on the coolant level than drive around fretting about whether the radiator's going to spring a leak again.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Could someone enlighten me as to how the radiators are actually failing? Are they cracking due to vibration, or bursting due to excess pressure?

If the former, could the rubber mountings not be improved, and if the latter, could you not simply fit a vented or low-pressure cap on the expansion tank to stop the system over-pressurising?

If I had one of the affected cars I'd much rather keep an eye on the coolant level than drive around fretting about whether the radiator's going to spring a leak again.

My understanding is it's a combination of both
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Clipper
I have not knowingly had any radiator problems - does it affect Plus 6s or just Plus 4s?

Is it part of the dealer fix along with brakes or will rads only be fixed if they leak?

David, it's both CX models, some like you are on the original, some unfortunate owners have had multiple replacements
Posted By: MikeFromPembroke

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 06:16 PM

It’s the radiator issue that concerns me most, it looks like the root cause of break cylinder problems have well investigated and a proven solution proposed. I am not aware of any south testing or positive expectancies with the rad mod (swirl pot), just lots of repeat failures.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 07:52 PM

The brake cylinder is safety related and Morgan needs to do something. The radiator is a costly nuisance and MMC could do something.
Posted By: NickB54

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 08:48 PM

I would have hoped MSCC would have acted on behalf of us all and negotiated a far better offer than an extended warranty for 3 months. In effect it will cost Morgan very little as most defects are resolved within 36 months. The radiator must be covered however old the vehicle is if it is a known problem. The brake recall would have been covered irrespective how old the vehicles are. The lack of clear communication is deafening, I for one have missed taking my Morgan on a European trip, the Mercedes delivered well over 65mpg so there is some comfort with fuel at around €2.00 a litre. But for those hoping to go away in their CX in the next few weeks it must be hell. 3 months warranty extension is derisory.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/07/22 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Adrian777
As others have said, the 3 month warranty extension is poor compensation. If MMC are serious about maintaining / repairing their reputation then they need to look at this again.
The only other observation I would make is what lovely people you are on here! Too lovely. So many posts saying don’t be too harsh on MMC and be nice to the dealers because they have stock they can’t sell and we should feel sorry for them.
Whilst I agree there is no point blaming or having a go at anyone, both my dealer and MMC have my money. They are in a lot more control of the situation than I am and the dealers will have a lot more influence over MMC than I do. The only thing I have is c.£80k of unusable car sat in the garage. So right now the only people I am feeling sorry for are myself and the other 1273 people in my situation.


Understandable.....
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by NickB54
I would have hoped MSCC would have acted on behalf of us all and negotiated a far better offer than an extended warranty for 3 months. In effect it will cost Morgan very little as most defects are resolved within 36 months. The radiator must be covered however old the vehicle is if it is a known problem. The brake recall would have been covered irrespective how old the vehicles are. The lack of clear communication is deafening, I for one have missed taking my Morgan on a European trip, the Mercedes delivered well over 65mpg so there is some comfort with fuel at around €2.00 a litre. But for those hoping to go away in their CX in the next few weeks it must be hell. 3 months warranty extension is derisory.



The Warranty is 30 months not 36 months but yes I agree 3 months is derisory.
Posted By: DRR

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Jonathan G
Originally Posted by NickB54
I would have hoped MSCC would have acted on behalf of us all and negotiated a far better offer than an extended warranty for 3 months. In effect it will cost Morgan very little as most defects are resolved within 36 months. The radiator must be covered however old the vehicle is if it is a known problem. The brake recall would have been covered irrespective how old the vehicles are. The lack of clear communication is deafening, I for one have missed taking my Morgan on a European trip, the Mercedes delivered well over 65mpg so there is some comfort with fuel at around €2.00 a litre. But for those hoping to go away in their CX in the next few weeks it must be hell. 3 months warranty extension is derisory.



The Warranty is 30 months not 36 months but yes I agree 3 months is derisory.


Page 56 of the Plus Four Owners Manual states "Your warranty covers you for one year, or 12000 miles. So the 3 months extension takes it to 15 months not 30, 33 or 36. Please prove me wrong.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by NickB54
I would have hoped MSCC would have acted on behalf of us all and negotiated a far better offer than an extended warranty for 3 months. In effect it will cost Morgan very little as most defects are resolved within 36 months. The radiator must be covered however old the vehicle is if it is a known problem. The brake recall would have been covered irrespective how old the vehicles are. The lack of clear communication is deafening, I for one have missed taking my Morgan on a European trip, the Mercedes delivered well over 65mpg so there is some comfort with fuel at around €2.00 a litre. But for those hoping to go away in their CX in the next few weeks it must be hell. 3 months warranty extension is derisory.

As a non MSCC member so possibly missed it at the time but were MSCC involved in the numerous issues with the M3W during it's lifetime of production and problems, if so I can see why you think they might help now by liasing with MMC !

As far as I have read on here the M3W owners have been on their own and had it not been for PB and a couple of others they would have been untenable. They had to provide a chassis change as they were a disaster and if that had anything to do with MSCC it would be good news.. and I might even consider joining grin2
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by DRR
Originally Posted by Jonathan G
Originally Posted by NickB54
I would have hoped MSCC would have acted on behalf of us all and negotiated a far better offer than an extended warranty for 3 months. In effect it will cost Morgan very little as most defects are resolved within 36 months. The radiator must be covered however old the vehicle is if it is a known problem. The brake recall would have been covered irrespective how old the vehicles are. The lack of clear communication is deafening, I for one have missed taking my Morgan on a European trip, the Mercedes delivered well over 65mpg so there is some comfort with fuel at around €2.00 a litre. But for those hoping to go away in their CX in the next few weeks it must be hell. 3 months warranty extension is derisory.



The Warranty is 30 months not 36 months but yes I agree 3 months is derisory.


Page 56 of the Plus Four Owners Manual states "Your warranty covers you for one year, or 12000 miles. So the 3 months extension takes it to 15 months not 30, 33 or 36. Please prove me wrong.


I think it actually says "your warranty covers you for one year, or 12,000 miles free recovery service". The quote you posted only refers to the free recovery service. It is poor in that it doesn't state 30 months but I was assured by Morgan it is 30 months. I will double check again now.
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 09:15 AM

To be fair to MSCC they have been sending emails to us and advise they have had contact with MMC.
Unable to say whether it’s made any difference but any support helps…
HB
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 09:16 AM

That's good to hear HB, every little helps.
Posted By: MikeFromPembroke

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 09:18 AM

What is Covered Under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty?
Under your New Vehicle Limited Warranty, coverage begins at the warranty • start date and lasts for 30 months or 30,000 miles, which ever comes first.
Also, your warranty covers you for one year, or 12,000 miles free recovery service (organised by your supplying dealer for markets outside the UK).
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
That's good to hear HB, every little helps.

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by NickB54
I would have hoped MSCC would have acted on behalf of us all and negotiated a far better offer than an extended warranty for 3 months. In effect it will cost Morgan very little as most defects are resolved within 36 months. The radiator must be covered however old the vehicle is if it is a known problem. The brake recall would have been covered irrespective how old the vehicles are. The lack of clear communication is deafening, I for one have missed taking my Morgan on a European trip, the Mercedes delivered well over 65mpg so there is some comfort with fuel at around €2.00 a litre. But for those hoping to go away in their CX in the next few weeks it must be hell. 3 months warranty extension is derisory.

As a non MSCC member so possibly missed it at the time but were MSCC involved in the numerous issues with the M3W during it's lifetime of production and problems, if so I can see why you think they might help now by liasing with MMC !

As far as I have read on here the M3W owners have been on their own and had it not been for PB and a couple of others they would have been untenable. They had to provide a chassis change as they were a disaster and if that had anything to do with MSCC it would be good news.. and I might even consider joining grin2


Richard,
the Chair & Vice Chair of MSCC meet regularly with senior managers at MMC. I know they have been acting as a conduit for CX owners to express their feelings. They also read TM.
Lets hope MMC get more communicative & sort this before it is too late.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by John V6
Originally Posted by +8Rich
That's good to hear HB, every little helps.

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by NickB54
I would have hoped MSCC would have acted on behalf of us all and negotiated a far better offer than an extended warranty for 3 months. In effect it will cost Morgan very little as most defects are resolved within 36 months. The radiator must be covered however old the vehicle is if it is a known problem. The brake recall would have been covered irrespective how old the vehicles are. The lack of clear communication is deafening, I for one have missed taking my Morgan on a European trip, the Mercedes delivered well over 65mpg so there is some comfort with fuel at around €2.00 a litre. But for those hoping to go away in their CX in the next few weeks it must be hell. 3 months warranty extension is derisory.

As a non MSCC member so possibly missed it at the time but were MSCC involved in the numerous issues with the M3W during it's lifetime of production and problems, if so I can see why you think they might help now by liasing with MMC !

As far as I have read on here the M3W owners have been on their own and had it not been for PB and a couple of others they would have been untenable. They had to provide a chassis change as they were a disaster and if that had anything to do with MSCC it would be good news.. and I might even consider joining grin2


Richard,
the Chair & Vice Chair of MSCC meet regularly with senior managers at MMC. I know they have been acting as a conduit for CX owners to express their feelings. They also read TM.
Lets hope MMC get more communicative & sort this before it is too late.


Good to read they are proactive on behalf of the CX people John, plenty to be going for on here..

Yes, there are some sad tales on here relating to CX ownership..
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 11:06 AM

It is 30 months
Posted By: Capt Aero

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 11:30 AM

First of the cx "brake problem" production cars are leaving the factory today for delivery. We might have some feedback on brake feel by the end of the week. I hope it's not too long before all cx cars are back on the road. I'm sure the dealers will do their utmost when they have the parts.
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by DRR
Originally Posted by Jonathan G
Originally Posted by NickB54
I would have hoped MSCC would have acted on behalf of us all and negotiated a far better offer than an extended warranty for 3 months. In effect it will cost Morgan very little as most defects are resolved within 36 months. The radiator must be covered however old the vehicle is if it is a known problem. The brake recall would have been covered irrespective how old the vehicles are. The lack of clear communication is deafening, I for one have missed taking my Morgan on a European trip, the Mercedes delivered well over 65mpg so there is some comfort with fuel at around €2.00 a litre. But for those hoping to go away in their CX in the next few weeks it must be hell. 3 months warranty extension is derisory.



The Warranty is 30 months not 36 months but yes I agree 3 months is derisory.


Page 56 of the Plus Four Owners Manual states "Your warranty covers you for one year, or 12000 miles. So the 3 months extension takes it to 15 months not 30, 33 or 36. Please prove me wrong.

Originally Posted by DRR
Originally Posted by Jonathan G
Originally Posted by NickB54
I would have hoped MSCC would have acted on behalf of us all and negotiated a far better offer than an extended warranty for 3 months. In effect it will cost Morgan very little as most defects are resolved within 36 months. The radiator must be covered however old the vehicle is if it is a known problem. The brake recall would have been covered irrespective how old the vehicles are. The lack of clear communication is deafening, I for one have missed taking my Morgan on a European trip, the Mercedes delivered well over 65mpg so there is some comfort with fuel at around €2.00 a litre. But for those hoping to go away in their CX in the next few weeks it must be hell. 3 months warranty extension is derisory.



The Warranty is 30 months not 36 months but yes I agree 3 months is derisory.


Page 56 of the Plus Four Owners Manual states "Your warranty covers you for one year, or 12000 miles. So the 3 months extension takes it to 15 months not 30, 33 or 36. Please prove me wrong.


Ok you’re wrong. Just had the 30 months confirmed by Morgan. Only the roadside recovery is 12 months.
Posted By: 1560

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Jonathan G


Only the roadside recovery is 12 months.


at least we won't need that for the time coming hide
Posted By: sospan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 01:39 PM

A common failing that crops up when things go wrong is communications with the provider. Why is it so hard to find ways to contact a provider when sorting a problem?
Finding tel numbers is extremely difficult for far too many. They rely on email, “ live chat” that is often limited in scope.
I recently change the tintop. Tried phoning my insurer to give details of new car and crossover date to pick it up. No tel number except for new customers who would be given it! Breakdown/ accident reporting would’t transfer. Sent an email. Next day the reply and big errors in the data they took. Sent another pointing out the errors and complaining about no tel for quicker resolution. I got final confirmation of the correct cover the day before the car change. There’s a strong chance that next year’s renewal will be to a company with a tel number easy to find!
Customer care is hugely reliant on communications yet so many ( often in the communications industry) have poor systems.
For MMC their priorities should be to owners of the cars with the issues. There was a time when this was dismissive but the new owners seem to be improving things, especially after seeing the M3W problems. I hope CX owners are being kept properly informed directly or through dealers. Anything less is unacceptable. The rest of us? We will learn how it is going soon enough. Hopefully showing positive results. As well as the recall fix might there be offers of something as a good will gesture? Discounts, giveaways etc? With current fuel prices a tankfull of petrol?
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 02:06 PM

We are slowly but surely being groomed to no human contact in customer services and AI undertaking most of the administrative tasks, you can see it with the chat dropdowns that currently have a pre set response to a given popular topic. It wont be too long as not only telephone numbers disappear but even the luxury of a human contact/interface at all.
Posted By: DRR

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Jonathan G
Originally Posted by DRR
Originally Posted by Jonathan G
Originally Posted by NickB54
I would have hoped MSCC would have acted on behalf of us all and negotiated a far better offer than an extended warranty for 3 months. In effect it will cost Morgan very little as most defects are resolved within 36 months. The radiator must be covered however old the vehicle is if it is a known problem. The brake recall would have been covered irrespective how old the vehicles are. The lack of clear communication is deafening, I for one have missed taking my Morgan on a European trip, the Mercedes delivered well over 65mpg so there is some comfort with fuel at around €2.00 a litre. But for those hoping to go away in their CX in the next few weeks it must be hell. 3 months warranty extension is derisory.



The Warranty is 30 months not 36 months but yes I agree 3 months is derisory.


Page 56 of the Plus Four Owners Manual states "Your warranty covers you for one year, or 12000 miles. So the 3 months extension takes it to 15 months not 30, 33 or 36. Please prove me wrong.

Originally Posted by DRR
Originally Posted by Jonathan G
Originally Posted by NickB54
I would have hoped MSCC would have acted on behalf of us all and negotiated a far better offer than an extended warranty for 3 months. In effect it will cost Morgan very little as most defects are resolved within 36 months. The radiator must be covered however old the vehicle is if it is a known problem. The brake recall would have been covered irrespective how old the vehicles are. The lack of clear communication is deafening, I for one have missed taking my Morgan on a European trip, the Mercedes delivered well over 65mpg so there is some comfort with fuel at around €2.00 a litre. But for those hoping to go away in their CX in the next few weeks it must be hell. 3 months warranty extension is derisory.



The Warranty is 30 months not 36 months but yes I agree 3 months is derisory.


Page 56 of the Plus Four Owners Manual states "Your warranty covers you for one year, or 12000 miles. So the 3 months extension takes it to 15 months not 30, 33 or 36. Please prove me wrong.


Ok you’re wrong. Just had the 30 months confirmed by Morgan. Only the roadside recovery is 12 months.


Glad I am wrong, so now 33 months with Morgan;s extension. Thanks all for the confirmation.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 04:11 PM

Latest news from Hawki of this parish who still can't log in Simon.


Thank you for your email. I will get your email added to our database of customers. I can confirm that your car is on our list of cars to be returned to Morgan for a cooling system modification.

We are sincerely sorry for the disruption that you have faced as a result of the stop drive recall affecting Morgan Plus Four and Plus Six vehicles.

We can report that the technical fix required to rectify Plus Four and Plus Six vehicles has now been validated and that replacement parts kits are being prepared. We anticipate the first parts will be released this week. Thereafter, rectification kits will be received regularly, in batches, as the parts are supplied to Morgan.

We will be contacting you in the next 10 days through our logistics partner, Acumen Logistics. We will be aiming to complete the process as quickly as possible with minimal further disruption to you.

Once the Stop Drive vehicle safety recall campaign service action has been completed, Morgan will apply a 3-month extension to the manufacturer warranty.

Once again, thank you for your patience whilst we deal with these challenging circumstances. Please be assured that we continue to work tirelessly to get your Morgan sports car back on the road as quickly as possible.

Kind Regards


John Bower
AFTERSALES MANAGER

Email: john.bower@morgan-motor.co.uk

Telephone: +44 (0)1684 584 583 Ext.2655

Web: www.MORGAN-MOTOR.COM
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 07:08 PM

That's not really up to it. At the very least the road tax for the lost period needs to be covered through lack of ability to use the purchased asset.
Posted By: Haytop

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 07:44 PM

The posts since the 6th July indicate that increasing quantities of the proverbial are hitting the fan and seriously damaging the goodwill and reputation not only of MMC but also the dealers (who appear to have been left in the lurch and bereft of info). In addition there is the understandable frustration of owning an unusable CX and the lack of information and/or explanation to the detriment of the marque.

I refer to my post of the 6th July and my assertion that the time had come for the MMC should be frank and open about the difficulties concerning the master cylinder and the radiator in the CX cars. This could have been done in terms which would not prejudice claims against third party suppliers of the relevant components or others.

Instead of this MMC appear to have chosen to rely on and exploit the loyalty of affected purchasers by remaining silent and without proper consideration of their concern. Many purchasers have lost or are losing patience. If I had purchased a Porsche/Jag/Merc and treated like this by them I would by now have transported it to the dealer and served a writ claiming my money back and damages. (The dealer would then seek a full indemnity from MMC). I have not done this because it is a Morgan a marque which deserves much more from its customer services.

The reply of the after sales manager falls lamentably short of what the owners of CX cars are entitled to expect in the circumstances

Others may wish to consider on legal advice what to do including advice about a class action organised by MSCC who appear to be supine (being a conduit involves two way traffic and disclosure to those affected) or others (an ad hoc action group).

It is about time MMC did something to show it deserves the loyalty and esteem of its customers not least by being open and frank about what has happened and is happening. They must be following the posts and be aware of the views expressed

A point of general concern is that some owners appear confident to drive a CX to the factory or dealers for remedial work to replace the master cylinder. The recall notice makes it clear that the CX is in a dangerous condition. If a driver knowingly drives a car with a dangerous fault he or she is guilty of dangerous driving which usually attracts the most severe penalties particularly if death or serious injury is caused (brake failure resulting in mowing down a pedestrian for example). With respect do not rely on what your insurer says but look at the legislation and seek competent legal advice.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Haytop
The posts since the 6th July indicate that increasing quantities of the proverbial are hitting the fan and seriously damaging the goodwill and reputation not only of MMC but also the dealers (who appear to have been left in the lurch and bereft of info). In addition there is the understandable frustration of owning an unusable CX and the lack of information and/or explanation to the detriment of the marque.

I refer to my post of the 6th July and my assertion that the time had come for the MMC should be frank and open about the difficulties concerning the master cylinder and the radiator in the CX cars. This could have been done in terms which would not prejudice claims against third party suppliers of the relevant components or others.

Instead of this MMC appear to have chosen to rely on and exploit the loyalty of affected purchasers by remaining silent and without proper consideration of their concern. Many purchasers have lost or are losing patience. If I had purchased a Porsche/Jag/Merc and treated like this by them I would by now have transported it to the dealer and served a writ claiming my money back and damages. (The dealer would then seek a full indemnity from MMC). I have not done this because it is a Morgan a marque which deserves much more from its customer services.

The reply of the after sales manager falls lamentably short of what the owners of CX cars are entitled to expect in the circumstances

Others may wish to consider on legal advice what to do including advice about a class action organised by MSCC who appear to be supine (being a conduit involves two way traffic and disclosure to those affected) or others (an ad hoc action group).

It is about time MMC did something to show it deserves the loyalty and esteem of its customers not least by being open and frank about what has happened and is happening. They must be following the posts and be aware of the views expressed

A point of general concern is that some owners appear confident to drive a CX to the factory or dealers for remedial work to replace the master cylinder. The recall notice makes it clear that the CX is in a dangerous condition. If a driver knowingly drives a car with a dangerous fault he or she is guilty of dangerous driving which usually attracts the most severe penalties particularly if death or serious injury is caused (brake failure resulting in mowing down a pedestrian for example). With respect do not rely on what your insurer says but look at the legislation and seek competent legal advice.

What a cracking post...
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 08:43 PM

Since 2 years i have said something was wrong with the brakes. But they all said it was normal and not dangerous. After they inverted
The front calipers to decrease the noise done when braking i didnt have any brakes when the wheels were at the maximum turn.
No excuses from the factory , it was a bolt touching the brake caliper during max turn.And now suddently i am not allowed to drive.
Ten times i could have an accident.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 08:52 PM

IFortunately I've not been affected by the situation, and as I've said I fully understand the utter frustration of the CX owners and sympathise fully with their situation.

However, I think I have a good understanding of the situation folloiwng updates on TM from owners and the communications they have recieved from either MMC or their Dealers.

MMC indentified an issue where the master cylinder brake seals were failing. There had been at least two complete failures.
MMC released a recall/stop notice on all CX vehicles
The problem was identified as the result of porosity in the castings, causing seals to fail
MMC sourced an alternative master cylinder
The cylinder underwent testing at MMC (homologation?)
Now the new cylinder is verified as being suitable, they have started delivering them in batches to the dealerships.
Owners had already advised that their cars would be collected and taken to the dealerships (time to be confirmed once the aforementioned replacement was aquired)
At the same time a fix would be applied to the radiator to rectify the failure issues that had been afflicting some vehicles.(although cause of the problem has not been revealed as yet)

It does seem though that there has been a massive disparity in the levels of communication to owners. All the information seems to be 'out there' but not all of it is getting through. I wonder if this issue lies with MMC, or dissemination from the dealership?

Again, I fully appreciate the frustration, and the failures in communication to some, but I'm not sure what else could be done by MMC to actually rectify the situation and get the CXs back on the road?
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/07/22 09:10 PM

With regard to timings, this is interesting reading Aventador Recalls

In many cases there's a good few months between the date of recall notice and date the recall began. Possibly indicative of smaller, low volume manufacturers?
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 19/07/22 07:16 AM


Very true TBM. Anything low volume is always going to be a challenge.

They have access to the mothership and sharing stuff with Audi etc but they still have their low volume issues. I would certainly be a LOT more pissed off if one of the wheels became detached and passed me on the road due to the brake nut recall not having been performed (at £250k for the car). It does not make it any easier to deal with but in the words of our ex-leader, them's the breaks.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 19/07/22 07:24 AM

Porsche/Jag/Merc were also mentioned above - as a comparison:

Porsche 31,000+ employees plus 45 UK dealerships
Jag 39,000+ employees plus 175 UK dealerships
Merc 173,000+ employees plus 4,700 UK dealerships

MMC 240 employess plus 14 dealerships

Things are gong to take a little longer in the Morgan world smile
Posted By: 1stMog

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 19/07/22 08:55 AM

Quote
Others may wish to consider on legal advice what to do including advice about a class action organised by MSCC who appear to be supine (being a conduit involves two way traffic and disclosure to those affected) or others (an ad hoc action group).

The MSCC has not been 'supine'. As Chairman, I contacted every MSCC member who is registered with the Club as owning a CX-platform car, asking for their experiences, demands and comments. These have all been passed to senior figures at MMC. I and the Vice Chair personally met the Executive Chairman and others at the factory on 15 June – one week after the recall was communicated – to emphasise our members' interests and to seek solutions. Since then I have continued to ensure MMC is aware of our members' concerns and have provided regular updates to members. The most recent batch of members' comments was sent to MMC yesterday (18 July), including reactions to the factory's latest communication (15 July) with the three-month warranty extension. MMC can be in no doubt about the demands of MSCC members for urgent rectification and suitable recompense.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 19/07/22 09:00 AM

Most likely one of the real issues for a small manufacturer is the lack of development time and testing prior to production of new models with increasingly (for Morgan) more advanced technologies being bought into play. Having said that brakes and radiators are pretty old well proven engineering technology. The engines and transmissions have been subject to original manufacturer testing and QC like many other of the outsourced components, so its only the bits that Morgan design, build that are purely down to Morgan's own inhouse development and QC regime. It would be interesting to understand how much of the Morgan CX is now built from outsourced components and what reliance Morgan places on other companies design, testing, inspection and QC procedures and how that compares with Morgan's own inhouse development, and QC resources commitment.

I must admit having been out of Morgans for nearly 30 years, I was somewhat surprised as to the extent of the issues on M3W and now the CX, maybe the internet has made it more visible but I certainly don't recollect the same level of development issues back in the 80's and 90's. Certainly build quality, eg untreated wood frames, mild steel inner wings and bulk head corrosion were well known and understood weaknesses that have been addressed over time with better treatments and better quality materials used. Or were these things more symptomatic of simpler days and simpler cars to build and maintain compared to the complexity of modern green cleaner technology driven Morgan cars of today.

Or has there been a more fundamental shift in the persona of Morgan in its search to take the brand increasingly upmarket, with increasingly more powerful models at a much more expensive price point possibly without the internal infrastructure and resources to assure delivery of a reliable product...........even the best car manufacturers with massive development budgets suffer setbacks and problems with their products. Maybe there is a important lesson here for Morgan that it may need to take heed of in its scramble to release newer and more sophisticated models....ie get the basics right otherwise it can bite you severely on the bum, do untold reputational damage in a very different customer base today compared with 30 or 40 years ago of Morgan enthusiasts, that's beside the cost of putting all these thing right.

I thought about a CX, I'm glad I didn't go ahead, they are a great car, a step change compared to the trad, but the trad benefits from decades of development in the basic areas that keep the allure and cars alive.

I sincerely hope this fixes the CX issues for good,.
Posted By: Mr-Blueskies

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 19/07/22 09:16 AM

The lack of information and communication from MMC has been lamentable on this whole issue from start to…..well we haven’t got to finish yet!
We are advised dealers should be now receiving fix kits - I would really like to hear from anyone who has had the “fix” applied as to what has been done, how much workshop time was involved, what is the effect on operation on the car, any information on points of difference between plus four and plus six, manual v auto etc etc. (I understand kits are vehicle type specific?)
What we all lack is proper detail on what this is about having been fed nothing but rumour and disappointment for way too long. Dealers have been left pretty well as much in the dark as the rest of us for most of this time.
Posted By: p8mog

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 19/07/22 10:11 AM

The main problem with my Plus Four, ( for which I’ve had many minor faults,and still have some ongoing problems. ) is and always has been the brakes, it’s a sports car with the stopping power of a 1980’s car, mine is the auto and the engine braking is far better than the brake pedal and I’ve never had the ABS working, be it on a gravel or a damp rod surface or an emergency stop.
But would I change back to my Plus 8 which I had for over 20 year….NO. I love the car, for me and my good Lady it’s more comfortable and easier to drive in our later lives, and hopefully when sorted it will be a great car for the next 20 years.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 19/07/22 10:38 AM

I have exactly the same as you.i feel worry about my dealer. It is the only one in Belgium and they have just moved in a new beautifull place.
They have been impacted by the corona crisis and now they cant sell cars.
Posted By: RichardV6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 19/07/22 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by JohnHarris
Most likely one of the real issues for a small manufacturer is the lack of development time and testing prior to production of new models with increasingly (for Morgan) more advanced technologies being bought into play. Having said that brakes and radiators are pretty old well proven engineering technology. The engines and transmissions have been subject to original manufacturer testing and QC like many other of the outsourced components, so its only the bits that Morgan design, build that are purely down to Morgan's own inhouse development and QC regime. It would be interesting to understand how much of the Morgan CX is now built from outsourced components and what reliance Morgan places on other companies design, testing, inspection and QC procedures and how that compares with Morgan's own inhouse development, and QC resources commitment.

I must admit having been out of Morgans for nearly 30 years, I was somewhat surprised as to the extent of the issues on M3W and now the CX, maybe the internet has made it more visible but I certainly don't recollect the same level of development issues back in the 80's and 90's. Certainly build quality, eg untreated wood frames, mild steel inner wings and bulk head corrosion were well known and understood weaknesses that have been addressed over time with better treatments and better quality materials used. Or were these things more symptomatic of simpler days and simpler cars to build and maintain compared to the complexity of modern green cleaner technology driven Morgan cars of today.

Or has there been a more fundamental shift in the persona of Morgan in its search to take the brand increasingly upmarket, with increasingly more powerful models at a much more expensive price point possibly without the internal infrastructure and resources to assure delivery of a reliable product...........even the best car manufacturers with massive development budgets suffer setbacks and problems with their products. Maybe there is a important lesson here for Morgan that it may need to take heed of in its scramble to release newer and more sophisticated models....ie get the basics right otherwise it can bite you severely on the bum, do untold reputational damage in a very different customer base today compared with 30 or 40 years ago of Morgan enthusiasts, that's beside the cost of putting all these thing right.

I thought about a CX, I'm glad I didn't go ahead, they are a great car, a step change compared to the trad, but the trad benefits from decades of development in the basic areas that keep the allure and cars alive.

I sincerely hope this fixes the CX issues for good,.

Given your comments John I can't help being amused and now saddened that MMC made great store of the fact that barely 5% of components used in the previous Classic models were carried over to the CX range.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 19/07/22 02:55 PM

Lets hope we wil not have to wait 70 years
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 19/07/22 04:13 PM

Been told by my dealer that they are getting very few kits. It seems that the factory is looking after its own first. My dealer is sadly in the dark.
Posted By: Knoxxy

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 19/07/22 04:24 PM

I got my car from MW London, they seem to just as in the dark as the dealer network.
I’m getting increasingly frustrated about the £100k paper weight in my garage that I’ve only drive 3 miles home from the dealer before the dreaded email landed.
Posted By: sospan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/07/22 12:42 PM

Not affected as I have a trad.
Looking from the outside there are details to describe the process of sorting things out.
What is the delivery schedule of new parts from suppliers?
Is it all to MMC for them to distribute?
What is the policy for distribution? Who gets what ? What is the pecking order for selecting cars in order?
MMC getting first preference matched to their ability to do the work then pass on surplus?
Plus6 before Plus4? Or vice versa?
Dealers supplied pro rata to their ability to do the work?
A mix of all the above?
Preferred dealerships first?
Toss of a coin?
Loudest shouters first?
Someone must be making the decisions on how it will be shared out?
Posted By: IMHO

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/07/22 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Mr-Blueskies
The lack of information and communication from MMC has been lamentable on this whole issue from start to…..well we haven’t got to finish yet!
We are advised dealers should be now receiving fix kits - I would really like to hear from anyone who has had the “fix” applied as to what has been done, how much workshop time was involved, what is the effect on operation on the car, any information on points of difference between plus four and plus six, manual v auto etc etc. (I understand kits are vehicle type specific?)
What we all lack is proper detail on what this is about having been fed nothing but rumour and disappointment for way too long. Dealers have been left pretty well as much in the dark as the rest of us for most of this time.


Owning a M3W as I do I can confirm that this is the Morgan way of doing things, they are masters of the technological inexactitude, they really don’t want to get into detailed dialogue with a knowledgeable customer base, presumably in case their inner workings get exposed. pantsdown
Posted By: 1560

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/07/22 03:49 PM

isn't that todays policy everywhere?
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/07/22 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by 1560
isn't that todays policy everywhere?


Exactly, don't tell the customers anything that they might try to use against you in some sort of claim.
The result is a total lack of trust, in both directions.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/07/22 05:48 PM

Fed up waiting for CX action - cancel your order and strap yourself into this 4.8 BMW V8 Morgan and enjoy THIS summer - just run in and cheaper. woohoo hide Side exhaust so raising the dead included in the price wink
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/07/22 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Fed up waiting for CX action - cancel your order and strap yourself into this 4.8 BMW V8 Morgan and enjoy THIS summer - just run in and cheaper. woohoo hide Side exhaust so raising the dead included in the price wink

Stop it Richard, I can't unsee that now smile
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/07/22 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by CooperMan
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Fed up waiting for CX action - cancel your order and strap yourself into this 4.8 BMW V8 Morgan and enjoy THIS summer - just run in and cheaper. woohoo hide Side exhaust so raising the dead included in the price wink

Stop it Richard, I can't unsee that now smile

Sorry Jon, having the same problem here doh
Posted By: Haytop

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/07/22 08:02 PM

I did not intend to cause offence by characterising the MSCC as supine but I wished to make it clear that there does appear to be and have been inaction in relation to obtaining and providing information as to what is happening and how the present difficulties have arisen.
The recall notice must have been precipitated by an action by Morgan or the subcontractor who supplied the master cylinder or an engineer’s report in relation to the component. Whether or not this happened after a sudden “accident” or “loss of control” may not be important in the long run but it is obviously important to owners of CX cars
I knew that the MSCC had submitted a questionnaire to members and had reported the results to MMC but this does not appear to have precipitated any specific reaction apart from a proposal (three month extension of the warranty period the terms of which are not specified) which has been and is being criticised on substantial grounds as appears from previous posts
The memorandum of association of the MSCC sets out the objects of the MSCC as a company limited by guarantee. I am unable to copy the same into this post but they may be read by obtaining a search in the Companies registry using google. As one might expect they include furthering the interests of members of MSCC and Morgan enthusiasts. This must include obtaining specific useful information relating to CX problems.

There are of course numerous ancillary powers set out in the Memorandum.

Meetings with the management and passing on concerns/complaints of members are not with respect sufficient practical furtherance of these objects – the objects require more than this in the present situation such as obtaining precise details of what is proposed and what arrangements are to be made in relation to the removal of the recall notice and also target dates so that (for example) CX owner members may consider arrangements as to SORN and insurance and make decisions as to travel and other events (including events organised by MSCC).
.
Those attending any meeting with the management of MMC do not appear to have taken along a schedule of specific material items of concern based on the information provided by members and recorded what the MMC were saying in relation to such specifics so the factual scenario may be put before members. Further the CEO should have been told that the company was heading for a public relations disaster and he must seek to nurture and maintain reputation and goodwill (including the goodwill of those who deals face to face with customers) rather than giving the appearance of ignoring them (thus avoiding damage to the Marque).

Others may have different views but I do not hesitate to say that use of the word “supine” may seem harsh but it is not entirely inappropriate.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/07/22 08:31 PM

I think it takes 2 to tango. I guessing MMC aren't sharing as the venture capitalist lawyers are gagging them. MSCC can only do so much.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/07/22 09:05 PM

Has anyone got any experience with other recalls with high end/ low production vehicles? It would be interesting to get some real world comparisons rather than pontification.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/07/22 09:15 PM

Even happens to the big boys . Daimler recalls but lacks parts to fix
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/07/22 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by John V6
I think it takes 2 to tango. I guessing MMC aren't sharing as the venture capitalist lawyers are gagging them. MSCC can only do so much.

+1
Posted By: Paul F

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/07/22 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by TBM
Has anyone got any experience with other recalls with high end/ low production vehicles? It would be interesting to get some real world comparisons rather than pontification.


Not with vehicles. I managed a product recall in the 90’s for a fire alarm control panel. It was an intense few weeks complicated by the fact that we sold the product through wholesalers and had no certain way of tracing the whereabouts of suspect items..

It is very easy to be critical of those involved. MMC could have been more communicative but, if their experience is the same as mine was, they would have simply been repeating a “we are working on it” for a period.

Safety critical engineering solutions take time to properly diagnose, to design and verify a solution and then to manufacture parts and get them into stock. All this at a time when we are continually being told that extended lead times have become the norm.

I know this doesn’t fix the frustrations of those whose summer holiday plans have been ruined. Perhaps this is where MMC could do more - especially given the modest numbers of cars affected.

I once worked for an MD who always went into complex fault rectification meetings saying that if we needed to, we could make it our fault and then sort the fix - rather than passing blame to component suppliers or installers. It proved costly once or twice but the costs were always outweighed by the repeat orders. This included the time we had a product that we could prove had been contaminated by dust post installation.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 21/07/22 02:00 PM

I have been on the other side of software recall.

A new version of the software was issued for the wireless systems. Some smart person in development thought the new feature was so cool that everyone would want to use it and so made it to default to on as the system came up with the new code.

Small issue this feature was a radio protection technique intended to poison and block the use of wifi within the range of the system. It would find other wifi access points and then introduce control packets that caused the users attached to the alien wifi to fall off and not be able to reconnect. There were valid reasons to have this feature but from a sales point of view they were a minority. Needless to say all our customers neighbours wifi stopped working after the upgrade. We had always defaulted new features to off and advised of the use in the upgrade notes (who read them right?)

So most of our customers call us over a 2-3 day period saying what was going on? We see consistency in the message and are aware of the new feature. Messages to and fro across the atlantic asking why this happened.

We followed the usual list
1. Form a cross team hit squad to ensure all views are considered
2. Start a common information repository where all message are collated
3. Appoint a person as manufacturer facing (dev in our case)
4. Appoint a person to be customer facing and have a single cohesive message and status, transparent as practical.
5. Collect people who this directly impacts now, advise them of the channel to use and how it will work
6. Start to collate a list of several levels of criticality in the customer base. Partners, customers, others.
7. Have a regular cadence for messages even if it is "no update" so they begin to trust the method and stop calling every five minute distracting you from fixing it.
8. As significant changes happen broadcast them with any caveats.
9. Provide a known escalation channel and allow partners and others to use it without approval.
10. Focus everything else on fixing it.

We got a lot of good feedback and also even in a couple of customer references calls people mentioned it and said we were honest about it and cared.

Whilst I do not doubt a legal element should be maintained (the lawyer was on our calls) it is the transparency and consistency that is critical. If it becomes death of a thousand messages you drown and people stop trusting you.

It was an exciting 1-2 weeks.

p.s. two of the customers were related to F1 and we took out the pit lane at a grandprix.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 21/07/22 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by sospan

What is the policy for distribution? Who gets what ? What is the pecking order for selecting cars in order?
MMC getting first preference matched to their ability to do the work then pass on surplus?
Plus6 before Plus4? Or vice versa?
Dealers supplied pro rata to their ability to do the work?
A mix of all the above?
Preferred dealerships first?
Toss of a coin?
Loudest shouters first?
Someone must be making the decisions on how it will be shared out?





My dealer is getting so few parts he is not bothering to inform customers. Additionally, looks like Plus 6 only initially frown
Posted By: rmmcl

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 21/07/22 04:30 PM

A light at the end of the tunnel!

Had a call from my dealer yesterday to say he has received some kits from Morgan and he was good to book my Plus Six in.
My car is now with the dealer and the recall rework will be carried out tomorrow (4 hours estimate).

All being well I will collect my car on Saturday smile


Ross

22 Plus Six
05 Roadster - Prev
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 21/07/22 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by rmmcl
A light at the end of the tunnel!

Had a call from my dealer yesterday to say he has received some kits from Morgan and he was good to book my Plus Six in.
My car is now with the dealer and the recall rework will be carried out tomorrow (4 hours estimate).

All being well I will collect my car on Saturday smile


Ross

22 Plus Six
05 Roadster - Prev



That is excellent news
Posted By: 1stMog

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 21/07/22 04:43 PM

Thank you for expressing your views so clearly. May I respectfully suggest, however, that we continue the discussion via email (please send your email address to me at chairman@morgansportscarclub.com) rather than in an open forum which is accessible to a large number of people who are not members of the MSCC.
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 21/07/22 04:44 PM

[/quote]

My dealer is getting so few parts he is not bothering to inform customers. Additionally, looks like Plus 6 only initially frown
[/quote]

My Plus Four is booked in to be sorted on the10th August so Plus Six's not being prioritised over Plus Fours if my case is anything to go by.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 21/07/22 05:51 PM

Great news guys
Posted By: Knoxxy

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 21/07/22 08:16 PM

Interesting to hear that dealer communication and action is better than that for Morgan direct customers.
I’ve still heard nothing.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 21/07/22 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by rmmcl
A light at the end of the tunnel!

Had a call from my dealer yesterday to say he has received some kits from Morgan and he was good to book my Plus Six in.
My car is now with the dealer and the recall rework will be carried out tomorrow (4 hours estimate).

All being well I will collect my car on Saturday smile


Ross

22 Plus Six
05 Roadster - Prev



Ross, Please let us know how it goes.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 21/07/22 08:43 PM

So pleased to see things moving forward for you CX boys and girls thumbs
Posted By: NickB54

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 08:23 AM

I have yet to hear anything with regard to a rectification of my CX
Posted By: b4rnst4ble1

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 09:18 AM

After reading the thread and being a Cx owner, but not owners club member, and getting my contact through this forum
It seems we have a owners club camp and a none owners club camp,
It might be nice if we all shared info together seeing as though this is a big problem, we all love the brand and have a common goal ie working cars , rather than a them and us scenario. After all we are mightier standing together ?
Who knows you might get new Mscc members?
Just my thoughts
M
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 09:23 AM

Buyers of new Morgans used to get a 6 months membership of MSCC. I think that still continues.
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by DaveW
Buyers of new Morgans used to get a 6 months membership of MSCC. I think that still continues.


Yes it’s still the case.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 10:02 AM

Has anyone yet found how who the manufacturer of the new master cylinder is? Additionally, how exactly will this 'swirl pot' fix the radiator problem?
Posted By: b4rnst4ble1

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 10:03 AM

Not a Dickie bird for me and no follow up after the ‘6 months expired’
Posted By: b4rnst4ble1

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 10:04 AM

…. And bought in the network
Posted By: Davetherave

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by b4rnst4ble1
Not a Dickie bird for me and no follow up after the ‘6 months expired’

We are MSCC members, but are still "registered " with them as Roadster owners as our intended replacement Plus6 is on hold with the dealer. We did not see anything from the MSCC ( or maybe I missed it?? ) and I was not aware until now that the MSCC had contacted CX owners... To be fair to the dealer they have been keeping us fairly upto date with the situation, which seems to reflect the postings on this forum.

dave
Posted By: Robbie

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 11:25 AM

The problem seems to be that the dealers are only getting very small number of kits the Irish guy got just 2!!!!!! Looks like being a long wait
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by b4rnst4ble1
After reading the thread and being a Cx owner, but not owners club member, and getting my contact through this forum
It seems we have a owners club camp and a none owners club camp,
It might be nice if we all shared info together seeing as though this is a big problem, we all love the brand and have a common goal ie working cars , rather than a them and us scenario. After all we are mightier standing together ?
Who knows you might get new Mscc members?
Just my thoughts
M


There is no them & us. I know the Chair, Vice Chair & many centre secs are on here and noting the comments and growing frustration.
You should have got 6 months free membership when you got your CX. PM me your email and I'll follow up with MSCC if you would still like to join with the offer .
Originally Posted by Davetherave
Originally Posted by b4rnst4ble1
Not a Dickie bird for me and no follow up after the ‘6 months expired’

We are MSCC members, but are still "registered " with them as Roadster owners as our intended replacement Plus6 is on hold with the dealer. We did not see anything from the MSCC ( or maybe I missed it?? ) and I was not aware until now that the MSCC had contacted CX owners... To be fair to the dealer they have been keeping us fairly upto date with the situation, which seems to reflect the postings on this forum.

dave

Dave I raised the quality of the MSCC dbase on who owns what cars. The Chair asked CS to ask each regions membership if they had now a CX so he could have a definitve dbase of CX owners to lobby for. Not sure what has happened but please let Martin know you own one.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Robbie
The problem seems to be that the dealers are only getting very small number of kits the Irish guy got just 2!!!!!! Looks like being a long wait

To put that a wee bit in context for us all, how many are required your side of the pond.
Posted By: Davetherave

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by John V6
Originally Posted by b4rnst4ble1
After reading the thread and being a Cx owner, but not owners club member, and getting my contact through this forum
It seems we have a owners club camp and a none owners club camp,
It might be nice if we all shared info together seeing as though this is a big problem, we all love the brand and have a common goal ie working cars , rather than a them and us scenario. After all we are mightier standing together ?
Who knows you might get new Mscc members?
Just my thoughts
M


There is no them & us. I know the Chair, Vice Chair & many centre secs are on here and noting the comments and growing frustration.
You should have got 6 months free membership when you got your CX. PM me your email and I'll follow up with MSCC if you would still like to join with the offer .
Originally Posted by Davetherave
Originally Posted by b4rnst4ble1
Not a Dickie bird for me and no follow up after the ‘6 months expired’

We are MSCC members, but are still "registered " with them as Roadster owners as our intended replacement Plus6 is on hold with the dealer. We did not see anything from the MSCC ( or maybe I missed it?? ) and I was not aware until now that the MSCC had contacted CX owners... To be fair to the dealer they have been keeping us fairly upto date with the situation, which seems to reflect the postings on this forum.

dave

Dave I raised the quality of the MSCC dbase on who owns what cars. The Chair asked CS to ask each regions membership if they had now a CX so he could have a definitve dbase of CX owners to lobby for. Not sure what has happened but please let Martin know you own one.


Hi John, Thank you. I have mailed Martin and our Wessex group of our vehicle changover situation..
Posted By: deano

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 06:24 PM

I was at the factory last Saturday and the tour guide pointed out how many recall cars where being worked on. Plus all the factory WIP was being modified. They seem to be replacing the rubber hoses to the remote reservoir as well as the master cylinder .
Posted By: rmmcl

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 07:08 PM

The recall work on my Plus Six was completed by my dealer today.
Due to collect it tomorrow morning.


Ross
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by rmmcl
The recall work on my Plus Six was completed by my dealer today.
Due to collect it tomorrow morning.


Ross

Great news, thumbs lets have some positive stuff pleeese chaps as I feel this thread was becoming a bit adversarial by some posters
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by rmmcl
The recall work on my Plus Six was completed by my dealer today.
Due to collect it tomorrow morning.


Ross

Great news....
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 08:11 PM

+1. Brilliant. Welcome back to the world of driving a Mog.
Posted By: Craig Jezz

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 09:47 PM

Good news thumbs
Posted By: bmgermany

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 09:54 PM

Fingers crossed that ALL waiting Morganeers get their cars soon on the road!
Posted By: jim109b

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/07/22 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by rmmcl
The recall work on my Plus Six was completed by my dealer today.
Due to collect it tomorrow morning.


Ross


Pleeeeese tell me the brakes work better than they did before?
Posted By: gaston

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 23/07/22 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by jim109b
Originally Posted by rmmcl
The recall work on my Plus Six was completed by my dealer today.
Due to collect it tomorrow morning.


Ross


Pleeeeese tell me the brakes work better than they did before?



Me too, I'm in a hurry to have a report.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 23/07/22 09:06 AM

It seems to me that Plus 6s and factory cars are getting priority. No news from my dealer, who is getting very few kits. Quote: I was at the factory last Saturday and the tour guide pointed out how many recall cars where being worked on
Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 23/07/22 11:25 AM

Hard to be positive when you adversely affected.
I was told by my dealer that Acumen who are contracted to collect cars for return to the factory will start contacting customers to arrange collection from 9am Friday July 21 2022. No call yet. Reading that cars are being repaired at the factory now (seemingly before Acumen are collecting) makes me wonder if undelivered cars are being prioritised, particularly as some dealers, including MMC themselves have started advertising used CX cars for sale. After all, I can’t see how a test drive could be arranged before the fix.
Posted By: rmmcl

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 23/07/22 02:17 PM

Car back home after the recall work completed.
Brakes definitely firmer.
From what I can tell from my 100 mile drive home the brakes perform well.

My dealer confirmed the kits for the Plus Four and Plus Six are different.
As there are a lot fewer Plus Sixes sold I expect the Plus Six rework exercise will be completed earlier.


Ross
Posted By: Robbie

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 23/07/22 02:41 PM

+8 Rich 9 as far as I know.
Cheers!
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 23/07/22 05:16 PM

Robbie, thanks so 2 sets not too useful.

I hope they get you sorted soon thumbs
Posted By: jim109b

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 23/07/22 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by rmmcl
Brakes definitely firmer.
From what I can tell from my 100 mile drive home the brakes perform well.


Now that's some good news smile
Posted By: RichP6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 23/07/22 05:56 PM

Great to hear the process to fix the cars has started and the firmer brakes is very positive. Was it just the master cylinder they changed or was there other things they did ? did they also do any radiator mods ?
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 23/07/22 06:14 PM

Looks like the dealers are also repairing 'stock' CX cars, just had Williams marketing a PFour & PSix for sale with immediate delivery (used models)

Hopefully the parts rollout will speed up & the rest of you get sorted soon thumbs
Posted By: rmmcl

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 23/07/22 07:41 PM

The dealer replaced the master cylinder and did the radiator mods at the same time.


Ross
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 23/07/22 07:48 PM

Great news guys. I hope your cars are next
Posted By: MattB

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 23/07/22 09:29 PM

Whilst I can’t provide any info on the order of existing cars that are being fixed, I can offer some additional insight in that my new Plus Four order will be delayed by 2 months in total. Originally due for factory completion in mid July, this is now mid September - an initial delay due to the radiator issue has now been extended due to the brake recall. For the record I’m fine with this as would rather Morgan dedicate their limited resources to resolving the issue for existing owners but hopefully this provides some comfort that they aren’t just prioritising new builds over anything else.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 24/07/22 09:43 AM

How about this for an interesting discussion, following the brake recall? Will CX Chassis Morgans increase or decrease in value? On the minus side is the possibility that many will sell their Plus Fours & Plus 6s as they are fed up, thus probably reducing the value. On the other hand, supply from the factory has stopped and thus must increase the value of existing cars. We all know that the value of second hand cars has increased over the last couple of years due to lack of supply of new vehicle. What do chaps think?
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 24/07/22 09:53 AM

FWIW I think in six months time it will be history and the market will be unaffected.

The myriad problems surrounding the M3W seem to have left their prices unscathed as far as I can tell, including the engine supplier dropping off the horizon ! and owners struggling to find spares.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 24/07/22 10:45 AM

The mtw was at 42000 euros in 2012 and is now at 55000 euros.
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 24/07/22 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
FWIW I think in six months time it will be history and the market will be unaffected.

The myriad problems surrounding the M3W seem to have left their prices unscathed as far as I can tell, including the engine supplier dropping off the horizon ! and owners struggling to find spares.


Agree 100%!
Posted By: gaston

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 24/07/22 11:35 AM


I think the PLUS FOUR is an exceptional car. Radiator and brake problems will soon be forgotten, if MMC deals with them effectively.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 24/07/22 11:49 AM

You have to hope so because the Plus Four auto is a great car.
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 24/07/22 01:01 PM

"Them's the breaks" according to BoJo...................
Posted By: petemog

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 24/07/22 01:38 PM

Or in this case ‘them’s no brakes’!
Posted By: Perry_P_M3W

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 24/07/22 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Derek596
How about this for an interesting discussion, following the brake recall? Will CX Chassis Morgans increase or decrease in value? On the minus side is the possibility that many will sell their Plus Fours & Plus 6s as they are fed up, thus probably reducing the value. On the other hand, supply from the factory has stopped and thus must increase the value of existing cars. We all know that the value of second hand cars has increased over the last couple of years due to lack of supply of new vehicle. What do chaps think?


Having had a look at the current used CX cars on offer from the MMC website and Autotrader, I wouldn't say they are holding their value all that well. Some Plus Six's are out there for almost 20k less than a new one. Granted these are the early versions but still...
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 06:20 AM

Also very much depends on extras. Did you check those? I managed to add 12 grands worth to my Plus Four without trying very hard. I haven’t looked but I would say some of those cheaper ones have little in the way of extras plus the old seats etc etc Also what were the retail prices of the basic Plus Sixes 2 or 3 years back?
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 07:43 AM

The first plus six where at 94000 euros hard top included.Two years later
I have paid my plus four the same price.Now the plus four with the same configuration as my car is at 104000 euros.
If i would like to sell my car i would try 90000 euros.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Jonathan G
Also very much depends on extras. Did you check those? I managed to add 12 grands worth to my Plus Four without trying very hard. I haven’t looked but I would say some of those cheaper ones have little in the way of extras plus the old seats etc etc Also what were the retail prices of the basic Plus Sixes 2 or 3 years back?


That maybe very true, but it doesn't always follow that the full value of the extra's is reflected in the resale value of the car. Some options maybe highly desirable, others may be just personal taste and may even detract from a vehicle in some people eyes. Secondly, important factory model upgrades like comfort seats may influence the desirability and size of the potential market for a given vehicle and hence its value. I would think the 22 model year cars onwards with very necessary standard upgrades like comfort seats and hood alterations may prove better residuals than earlier models. Time will tell.
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by JohnHarris
Originally Posted by Jonathan G
Also very much depends on extras. Did you check those? I managed to add 12 grands worth to my Plus Four without trying very hard. I haven’t looked but I would say some of those cheaper ones have little in the way of extras plus the old seats etc etc Also what were the retail prices of the basic Plus Sixes 2 or 3 years back?


That maybe very true, but it doesn't always follow that the full value of the extra's is reflected in the resale value of the car. Some options maybe highly desirable, others may be just personal taste and may even detract from a vehicle in some people eyes. Secondly, important factory model upgrades like comfort seats may influence the desirability and size of the potential market for a given vehicle and hence its value. I would think the 22 model year cars onwards with very necessary standard upgrades like comfort seats and hood alterations may prove better residuals than earlier models. Time will tell.


100% agree but those with no extras will always be of a lower value than those with extras. Earlier models were also cheaper so not right to compare residuals of those with later models.
Posted By: nick w

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 09:16 AM

Isn't all pricing about supply and demand? Under Peter Morgan supply was kept well below demand thus ensuring great resale prices on used cars.
It seems that currently supply is forced on dealers which must lead to discounts eventually which will feed through to used prices.
On the other hand, the new cars being constructed as they are sustain write off damage very easily so this will restrict supply of used cars presumably?
Unlike the traditional cars still all on the road 70 years or so later, the cx cars have built in throwaway design as is the modern way.
It will be interesting to see. In about 2002 I paid around 22k for a new 4/4. It's being offered by a garage now at 35k. They haven't sold it yet mind!
Nick
Posted By: Mr-Blueskies

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 09:19 AM

Thread drift……who cares about values???! I just want to be able to drive the car I have.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by Mr-Blueskies
Thread drift……who cares about values???! I just want to be able to drive the car I have.



Absolutely, but as the instigator of the drift, it is associated with the current situation. And one of the prime reasons why I purchased my Morgan was due to it's remarkable low depreciation. I just wondered if the current problem, resulting in many of us being rather annoyed, will affect residuals. Time will tell, but I do think that MMC should be rather more generous with compensation; a mere warranty extension will not cut it. And at the end of the day, surely PR is important?
Posted By: RichardV6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Jonathan G
Also very much depends on extras. Did you check those? I managed to add 12 grands worth to my Plus Four without trying very hard. I haven’t looked but I would say some of those cheaper ones have little in the way of extras plus the old seats etc etc Also what were the retail prices of the basic Plus Sixes 2 or 3 years back?

A generalisation I know but extras, particularly at Morgan prices are not reflected in any way pro-rata to their initial cost after a year or two. I doubt such extras would affect retail value more than a small fraction of initial cost. A model change, improved seats for example, included in basic price is another matter though.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 10:18 AM

Talking of depreciation, my Tesla cost me £49,600 in May 2021.
WBAC offered me £47.600 this week, so £2000 in 14 months.
Used versions, same model, colour, year are offered at £52,500...
BUT a new Tesla is £58,000, delivery not until 2023.....

Supply and demand rule. Simple.
Posted By: sospan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 10:27 AM

The cost of extras is a mind boggling view!
How DESPERATE are you to have, say. leather stitching in a non standard colour ? Then see how much to basically swop the bobbin on the sewing machine! Paint colour is another. Unless specifying a special paint then fairly minimal cost of new paint. There are serious mark-ups.
It’s the same for just about every car. Mainstream you get a few model choices with “ upgrades” to the features. A few accessories to add in ( often thrown in by the salesman to clinch a sale. Standardised production to , say, 4/5 model options to streamline the production line. How many do you end up never using?
With a low volume company hand building then there is scope to offer personalisation. It is a damn good profit generator!
I used the CX configurator when launched. Started with the basic spec then added on, for me, essential extras ( luggage rack). No fancy bling, just a “ poor man’s CX spec”. It is easy to see what extras you can get then think “ it’s a one off so ok, let’s do it. “ hmmmm the wheels look nicer.....change the colour of the roof......dash spec.....
Try it! spend
Resale value......yes some options make the car LOOK more desirable and help the sale but to what recouping of up front outlay? Same as selling a house. Initial impression helps to ease into the sale.
My thought process is one of when work is needed to replace parts then how much extra to upgrade? Brakes.....upgrade to stainless brake lines instead of new “ rubber”. Dampers....upgrade or original?


Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 10:46 AM

Buying second-hand Morgans is all about compromising your ideals. It's what pushes people into speccing a new one.

Most people have red lines, especially about paint colour, and to a lesser extent interior colour. That's primarily what drives a "buyer to Morgan" match.

The CXs are reasonably specced as standard, and bearing in mind how complicated the upgrades have been, even up to now, anyone new to Morgan, even with research will struggle to figure out the seat upgrades for one thing, the squeaky brake issues, the soft-top modifications, and now the radiator and master cylinder issues.

I prefer the soft top with side flaps anyway. The seats are modifiable at a push, and so it comes down the visuals of paint and interior. I think the SH market will be quiet until all this blows over.
Posted By: Mikemog6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 10:49 AM

A Porsche ideology, LESS IS MORE, the stripped out light weight cars always cost a lot MORE money.
Posted By: HJF

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 11:03 AM

Buy any new car and add options and the bill mounts up. Take it back three years later to trade in and the salesman isn’t interested in them when offering the punter a price.
The CX is a bold and necessary move for Morgan. But what would put me off is the added complexity and high price; they seem to be in Boxster and Cayman territory where these are more usable all round propositions.
I wasn’t interested in spending that sort of money on a fun car. Also wanted the prewar feel without the (most of!) prewar problems so bought a Trad’.
Think that in a few years as the world rapidly pivots to EV and some exciting EV sporting cars emerge then all ICE cars will drop in value by quite a bit. I’m convinced that future governments will hammer petrol even though Classic Car businesses are still a relatively vibrant but small part of the economy.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 12:20 PM

I thought the first units shipped were the loaded special edition models in metallic blue and green.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 12:26 PM

That was my understanding, Berrybrook still had one of these for sale up until a couple of months ago - I don't imagine the seating arrangements were selling it.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 12:39 PM

Your are right
Posted By: NickB54

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 04:24 PM

Does anyone have an idea of how long this recall is going to take and how many vehicles have been completed. I for one have heard nothing regarding when my vehicle is likely to be scheduled in never mind collected. Do we contact our supplying Dealer, Our servicing Dealer or MMC?

Any positive comments would be welcome!
Posted By: Rovert

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Mikemog6
A Porsche ideology, LESS IS MORE, the stripped out light weight cars always cost a lot MORE money.


I can remember an FT article about this some time ago, they were in awe of Porsche marketing expertise in being able to sell Lightweight specials at a considerable price uplift, despite the specials being cheaper to produce.
Posted By: Perry_P_M3W

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 06:32 PM

Thought I might shed some light on the topic of recalls where parts are concerned and not software. The below might not apply to this recall but I suspect it does.

Unless I've missed it, it's not yet clear who makes the components and how large of an outfit they are. This alone can play into how quick they can ramp up replacement parts. Does the Six have different brakes that the Four?

However, in general, new and aftermarket components don't often come off the same assembly line. I once worked for Siemens Automotive where we were making HVAC motors for BMW. We had two lines running. One for motors that were meant for the production line to keep the factory moving and a smaller assembly line for motors that would be used for replacement parts. I worked on both and for the life of me I couldn't make out what was different. To me the parts were the same, assembly, testing etc.

From my work within the VAG, I know the same goes for many of the wheels that are used. One department works with the supplier to place and forecast orders while a totally separate department works for the same supplier to feed the aftersales and warranty side of things.

In short, MMC are likely at the mercy of their supplier and/or the warranty side of MMC trying to get said supplier to ramp up production to meet their need. Contractually both are likely separate so said supplier is trying to fulfil two requirements.,

Hopefully this helps shed some light on what goes on in the background and eases any misgivings about MMC keeping the factory line moving.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 25/07/22 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by NickB54
Does anyone have an idea of how long this recall is going to take and how many vehicles have been completed. I for one have heard nothing regarding when my vehicle is likely to be scheduled in never mind collected. Do we contact our supplying Dealer, Our servicing Dealer or MMC?

Any positive comments would be welcome!


Nick, legally, responsibility lies with the supplying dealer, so I would start there first

Hopefully you get a positive response, & they can check you're 'on the list'
Posted By: waikiore

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 01:29 AM

So it appears that currently a pre August 22 CX car is rather like a 2012-13 M3W . IE you really need to see the list of mods carried out and by whom to know what you are looking at.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 08:40 AM

If it is a formal recall then there must be an entry in the register (in the UK, with due respect to those caring enough to ship them literally half way around the world)

https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-recall

Perhaps if you use this UK check with a UK plate you can find out what is needed and then ask the seller if it has been done ?
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 10:49 AM

Interesting that the DVLA website does not hold any recall information concerning my Plus Four. So does that mean it is not a UK DVLA recall/Stop Dive; just something that MMC instigated?
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 11:03 AM

I check for the fun , and if you check without plate
There is one recall about the brakes for the plus four
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 02:55 PM

An AngleMog member has today had his plus four collected to be fixed by the factory, brakes & rad. So things are moving
Posted By: RichP6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 03:10 PM

The recall number is R/2022/168 for the P6 and is classed as a Safety Recall NOT as a Stop Drive Recall. Morgan took that step independently for reasons only known to them. I have spoken to a number of people at Morgan and they confirmed they went “above and beyond” what was necessary.
My dealer is pulling his hair out and can’t tell me when he will receive parts. I spoke to a second dealer who has had 4 kits. The factory is on shutdown this week and there is a receptionist fielding the calls. It’s Unbelievable.

Just checked and the PlusFour is the same recall number check out
https://www.check-vehicle-recalls.service.gov.uk/recall-type/vehicle/make

Anyone up for joining a class action lawsuit against Morgan, I am getting close and will be seeking legal advice.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 03:12 PM

Without intending to rub salt into the wound of those who have had to sit looking at their pride and joy. The first date on this thread was 6 June 2022 and cars are now being returned to operation.

I am going to be speculative and say that having the problem understood, proven, and the re-work resolved in six weeks is actually pretty fair work for something that cannot be allowed to error again. Frustration generated the through weak communications not withstanding I think that is actually quite impressive for a tiny company.

Clearly some work yet to do to get everyone running again, possibly a bit more than a warranty extension as well if they want to claw the love back but still not a disaster.

Unless you have been sitting in the garage crying in which case my sympathy to you and I do genuinely know how you feel if it helps at all.
Posted By: RichP6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 03:26 PM

The recall date on the government website is 1st June, and I believe Morgan knew a few weeks before that. So that’s now over 2 months. Communication has been appalling and there should be no excuses for size of company.
Even now dealers can’t tell us when they are getting parts or are able to schedule cars in. Someone at Morgan must know the detail but the lack of transparency and information is quite frankly crap.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 04:41 PM

If it is merely a safety recall, NOT a STOP/DRIVE and it appears it is, then surely we can drive our cars. Certainly to the dealership for repairs, as per all safety recalls. Has anyone had a definitive agreement to drive by their insurance. ; see this for my car :

MORGAN PLUS FOUR 2021
This vehicle has 1 recall.

Open All
PREMATURE DEGRADATION OF THE RUBBER SEALS IN THE BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER
Recall number
R/2022/168

Recall date
01-06-2022

Recall type
Safety recall
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 04:55 PM

According to the government website this is merely a Safety Recall, NOT a stop/drive; this is the advice from DVLA: Safety Recall: 'The definition of a safety defect is met, but the threat is not immediate or can be mitigated with ‘reasonable’ consumer action'. In short it suggests sensible precautions by the driver, but the car can be driven; especially to the dealership for repairs. Certainly, an inspection of the master cylinder fluid would be wise before every trip. If RichP6 is correct, then rather a lot of egg on Morgan's face. I wonder if whoever at MMC decided to 'up the anti' is now regretting that. Will heads roll?
Posted By: SimonH

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Derek596
According to the government website this is merely a Safety Recall, NOT a stop/drive; this is the advice from DVLA: Safety Recall: 'The definition of a safety defect is met, but the threat is not immediate or can be mitigated with ‘reasonable’ consumer action'. In short it suggests sensible precautions by the driver, but the car can be driven; especially to the dealership for repairs. Certainly, an inspection of the master cylinder fluid would be wise before every trip. If RichP6 is correct, then rather a lot of egg on Morgan's face. I wonder if whoever at MMC decided to 'up the anti' is now regretting that. Will heads roll?


As I understand it- there have been catastrophic- no warning - complete brake failures on a number of CX models...

Do you want to take the risk?
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by SimonH
Originally Posted by Derek596
According to the government website this is merely a Safety Recall, NOT a stop/drive; this is the advice from DVLA: Safety Recall: 'The definition of a safety defect is met, but the threat is not immediate or can be mitigated with ‘reasonable’ consumer action'. In short it suggests sensible precautions by the driver, but the car can be driven; especially to the dealership for repairs. Certainly, an inspection of the master cylinder fluid would be wise before every trip. If RichP6 is correct, then rather a lot of egg on Morgan's face. I wonder if whoever at MMC decided to 'up the anti' is now regretting that. Will heads roll?


As I understand it- there have been catastrophic- no warning - complete brake failures on a number of CX models...

Do you want to take the risk?

I don't take risks. Of any sort. But from what I am told, there has been only one brake failure (maybe 2. As the problem is a slow degradation of the seal, it is unlikely IMHO that a catastrophic failure will occur unless one does not check the brake fluid before every trip. Of course, that could apply to any car, no matter what the make. The crux is: is one insured? I will ask my insurance company tomorrow. If I am insured AND my brake fluid is ok, I will drive.
Posted By: Mikemog6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 06:02 PM

The thing is nobody knows for sure, only MCC does and they are not saying, what we have is hearsay and rumors.
MCC could just be covering thire arse by instructing owners not drive

.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Mikemog6
The thing is nobody knows for sure, only MCC does and they are not saying, what we have is hearsay and rumors.
MCC could just be covering thire arse by instructing owners not drive

.


Possibly true but truth will always out and what then PR? MMC have tied very hard over the last few years to improve PR and indeed quality. Gone are the days when owners are happy with the phrase 'They all do that'. But this is turning into a PR disaster for MMC. Certainly limited communication and a paltry offer of an extended warranty has not endeared it to many.
Posted By: flyfisher

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 06:17 PM

I raised the fact it is just a safety recall not a stop drive as per DVLA, it’s just Morgan that said stop drive, so would be down to individual insurance companies. It is clear some people have still been driving their CX cars just look on Instagram. I expect it was a call to the insurance company and some might be more pragmatic than others, I doubt it would significantly change the risk.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 06:40 PM

The STOP decision from MMC will have come from their legal department, or at least it should have done grin2

If anyone bends it under the present situation they are giving the insurance companies a golden opportunity to shirk their responsibilities tbh.
Posted By: DavidR

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
The STOP decision from MMC will have come from their legal department, or at least it should have done grin2

And probably from their Insurers as well.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by DavidR
Originally Posted by +8Rich
The STOP decision from MMC will have come from their legal department, or at least it should have done grin2

And probably from their Insurers as well.

True..
Posted By: RichP6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 07:30 PM

The original communication that came from MMC and the follow up letter specifically said that NO catastrophic failure had occurred and NO accidents.
Extract from the Morgan letter : “Preliminary investigations indicate that in certain limited circumstances, premature degradation of the rubber seal(s) in the brake master cylinder may result in compromised brake performance, and in extreme cases cause brake failure. Because this is a possible safety issue, we are immediately advising that you should not drive your vehicle until a rectification action has been completed.”
Posted By: Haytop

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 07:45 PM

Before driving CX car which has not been fitted with the approved replacement brake cylinder etc I respectfully suggest you look up the offence of driving dangerously. As I understand the relevant law if I drive my CX knowing it has a dangerous defect as indicated by the recall notice and the emails/letters from MMC I would be guilty of the offence whether or not my insurers said I was insured. I have no desire to be disqualified or fined and/or suffer other penalty (it would be difficult to avoid custody if death or serious injury was caused by a brake failure).

I am therefore very concerned about the position. If anyone out there has a contrary view t suggest he or she obtains advice in writing from a competent solicitor.


For further details please see my earlier posts
Posted By: SimonH

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Derek596
Originally Posted by SimonH
Originally Posted by Derek596
According to the government website this is merely a Safety Recall, NOT a stop/drive; this is the advice from DVLA: Safety Recall: 'The definition of a safety defect is met, but the threat is not immediate or can be mitigated with ‘reasonable’ consumer action'. In short it suggests sensible precautions by the driver, but the car can be driven; especially to the dealership for repairs. Certainly, an inspection of the master cylinder fluid would be wise before every trip. If RichP6 is correct, then rather a lot of egg on Morgan's face. I wonder if whoever at MMC decided to 'up the anti' is now regretting that. Will heads roll?


As I understand it- there have been catastrophic- no warning - complete brake failures on a number of CX models...

Do you want to take the risk?

I don't take risks. Of any sort. But from what I am told, there has been only one brake failure (maybe 2. As the problem is a slow degradation of the seal, it is unlikely IMHO that a catastrophic failure will occur unless one does not check the brake fluid before every trip. Of course, that could apply to any car, no matter what the make. The crux is: is one insured? I will ask my insurance company tomorrow. If I am insured AND my brake fluid is ok, I will drive.


I Have a slightly different relationship with the factory than most, and I know of at least 2 complete failures

Checking the fluid level will give no indication of potential failure. The internal seals failing will mean that a braking circuit is unpressurised when the pedal is pressed. There will be no signs of fluid loss…
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by SimonH
Originally Posted by Derek596
Originally Posted by SimonH
Originally Posted by Derek596
According to the government website this is merely a Safety Recall, NOT a stop/drive; this is the advice from DVLA: Safety Recall: 'The definition of a safety defect is met, but the threat is not immediate or can be mitigated with ‘reasonable’ consumer action'. In short it suggests sensible precautions by the driver, but the car can be driven; especially to the dealership for repairs. Certainly, an inspection of the master cylinder fluid would be wise before every trip. If RichP6 is correct, then rather a lot of egg on Morgan's face. I wonder if whoever at MMC decided to 'up the anti' is now regretting that. Will heads roll?


As I understand it- there have been catastrophic- no warning - complete brake failures on a number of CX models...

Do you want to take the risk?

I don't take risks. Of any sort. But from what I am told, there has been only one brake failure (maybe 2. As the problem is a slow degradation of the seal, it is unlikely IMHO that a catastrophic failure will occur unless one does not check the brake fluid before every trip. Of course, that could apply to any car, no matter what the make. The crux is: is one insured? I will ask my insurance company tomorrow. If I am insured AND my brake fluid is ok, I will drive.


I Have a slightly different relationship with the factory than most, and I know of at least 2 complete failures

Checking the fluid level will give no indication of potential failure. The internal seals failing will mean that a braking circuit is unpressurised when the pedal is pressed. There will be no signs of fluid loss…



Now that is a worry.....
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/07/22 10:46 PM

Hence the recall I guess. I doubt MMC did it for nothing but now it seems cars are being fixed
Posted By: waikiore

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 01:47 AM

I would not knock MMC for issuing the notice in this modern and litigious world what else could they have done? In fact some of the earlier postings prove me right....
Posted By: NZPlusSix

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 03:20 AM

I’m disappointed to read comments made by both owners and non-owners of the CX cars on the current problems.

Over the years I have been fortunate enough to own Morgans from a 1939 4/4 through to our present First Edition Plus Six – one of the first 50 cars. We had a 2017/18 Plus 4 automatic (conversion by Vittese) along with the Plus Six. The Plus 4 was a delight to drive but when compared with the Plus Six it was not even on the same page. When I collected the P6 on arrival and drove on the expressway I could not believe it was a Morgan! The handling and ride was so improved. With the 2018 Plus4 after 100 miles of driving and I was well shaken and ready for a rest, whereas in the P6 I can drive 300 miles and be ready to go out for the evening.

Yes I knew from day One that the brakes were soft and rather suspect, and this replacement is only doing what I would have done myself
.
And yes I know that the suspension springs and dampers are quietly failing and the ride height dropping such that we drag on bumps in the road. And that I’m about to replace them with new coil over damper units from SSL

All this will only go to make a very good Morgan into an incredible Morgan!
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
I’m disappointed to read comments made by both owners and non-owners of the CX cars on the current problems.

Over the years I have been fortunate enough to own Morgans from a 1939 4/4 through to our present First Edition Plus Six – one of the first 50 cars. We had a 2017/18 Plus 4 automatic (conversion by Vittese) along with the Plus Six. The Plus 4 was a delight to drive but when compared with the Plus Six it was not even on the same page. When I collected the P6 on arrival and drove on the expressway I could not believe it was a Morgan! The handling and ride was so improved. With the 2018 Plus4 after 100 miles of driving and I was well shaken and ready for a rest, whereas in the P6 I can drive 300 miles and be ready to go out for the evening.

Yes I knew from day One that the brakes were soft and rather suspect, and this replacement is only doing what I would have done myself
.
And yes I know that the suspension springs and dampers are quietly failing and the ride height dropping such that we drag on bumps in the road. And that I’m about to replace them with new coil over damper units from SSL

All this will only go to make a very good Morgan into an incredible Morgan!

Wow, so beside the brake recall, the suspension on your new Plus 6 is also failing...
Posted By: nick w

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
I’m disappointed to read comments made by both owners and non-owners of the CX cars on the current problems.

Over the years I have been fortunate enough to own Morgans from a 1939 4/4 through to our present First Edition Plus Six – one of the first 50 cars. We had a 2017/18 Plus 4 automatic (conversion by Vittese) along with the Plus Six. The Plus 4 was a delight to drive but when compared with the Plus Six it was not even on the same page. When I collected the P6 on arrival and drove on the expressway I could not believe it was a Morgan! The handling and ride was so improved. With the 2018 Plus4 after 100 miles of driving and I was well shaken and ready for a rest, whereas in the P6 I can drive 300 miles and be ready to go out for the evening.

Yes I knew from day One that the brakes were soft and rather suspect, and this replacement is only doing what I would have done myself
.
And yes I know that the suspension springs and dampers are quietly failing and the ride height dropping such that we drag on bumps in the road. And that I’m about to replace them with new coil over damper units from SSL

All this will only go to make a very good Morgan into an incredible Morgan!

So you're happy to describe a new car costing around 100k with failing brakes and suspension that has sagged immediately enough to cause grounding problems " a very good Morgan"?
And you're disappointed that other owners don't share your view?
Wow. Maybe several radiators later......
Posted By: SCX358G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 09:47 AM

Is it possible to say a little bit more about the nature of the 'complete failures' ?

Were both braking circuits affected - ie was it a total loss of brakes on all four wheels. (only leaving the parking brake, which I would imagine would be virtually no use in de-accelerating the car)?
Or was it just one of the dual circuits that failed, leaving some braking available on two wheels (but with the possibility that the other circuit might also fail at any time) ?

I guess the question I'm asking is, just how good is the redundancy in modern cars with dual braking circuits ?
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by SCX358G
Is it possible to say a little bit more about the nature of the 'complete failures' ?

Were both braking circuits affected - ie was it a total loss of brakes on all four wheels. (only leaving the parking brake, which I would imagine would be virtually no use in de-accelerating the car)?
Or was it just one of the dual circuits that failed, leaving some braking available on two wheels (but with the possibility that the other circuit might also fail at any time) ?

I guess the question I'm asking is, just how good is the redundancy in modern cars with dual braking circuits ?


A point I have often wondered about. Since the introduction of twin brake circuits, many years ago, I though it very unlikely (if not impossible) to get a total brake failure. SimonH states that even if the brake master cylinder is full, one can still get a catastrophic failure. Would an expert please explain how.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 10:09 AM

They are effectively two pistons in line using one fluid reservoir not as used to be the case with two seperate reservoirs & pistons on some cars.

I guess if the seal fails in one you lose one side & if it leaks the fluid can run out affecting both circuits. I would have thought before that the driver would notice.

If you are really unlucky the seals on both pistons could fail. I also thought in the CX case that the casting was porous so pressure would leak and not drive the brake calipers.

But having driven several P4s and one P6 I found the brakes very poor with a long travel and little feel.
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 11:05 AM

The chances are that if one seal fails they will both fail. A single fail will increase pedal travel dramatically, and if you only had rears working with long travel, you may not have time to react before hitting the scenery.

I've had one total brake failure on a single circuit car, when on first application the pedal went to the floor. It happened on my drive, which is uphill to the road and at less than 5mph. It wasn't pleasant.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 11:50 AM

Called my dealer ,they have received 8 kits , they have made 3 sold cars in the showroom , other cars will be fixed this week . Normally they should receive more kits next week and call me for my car.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by John V6


I
But having driven several P4s and one P6 I found the brakes very poor with a long travel and little feel.

Indeed, I actually complained about long brake travel and high push forces on collection of my Plus Four. Was told that was 'normal'. Well, normal maybe to a Morgan. Hopefully the new master cylinders will fix that, but I doubt it. Anyone had theirs fixed yet?
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 01:46 PM

Every trad mog i have owned has had "normal" pedal travel
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Derek596
Originally Posted by John V6


I
But having driven several P4s and one P6 I found the brakes very poor with a long travel and little feel.

Indeed, I actually complained about long brake travel and high push forces on collection of my Plus Four. Was told that was 'normal'. Well, normal maybe to a Morgan. Hopefully the new master cylinders will fix that, but I doubt it. Anyone had theirs fixed yet?

Post #749155 on here on 23/07/22 from Ross in Aberdeenshire says he had his fixed and brake appeared to be firmer on the drive home.
Posted By: RichardV6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 05:38 PM

Interesting chat with Dan at Krazy Horse today. They have received 4 out of the 30 brake fix kits they need to fix customers cars. His understanding is they are being delivered pro-rata to full number each dealer needs.

Subject drifted to the radiator issue. Latest solution revolves around thermal shock in engine when thermostat opens suddenly as turbo kicks in, with hot coolant aided by exhaust manifold within head, stressing radiator as it hits cooler. The solution is a new complex swirl pot with fresh plumbing to same, to mix hot and cold before rad. At least that's what I understood. The factory are performing this fix and have a large team engaged for quick turnaround.

As if not enough a lower wishbone nut has been found under-spec'd so that's due for replacement as well.
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 05:50 PM

That's what I understood re: radiator Richard.
Posted By: SimonH

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Graham, G4FUJ
That's what I understood re: radiator Richard.


I’d be looking at how the radiator is mounted…..
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by SimonH
Originally Posted by Graham, G4FUJ
That's what I understood re: radiator Richard.


I’d be looking at how the radiator is mounted…..

Exactly my thoughts all along…
I simply do not buy into the swirl pot idea!
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
I’m disappointed to read comments made by both owners and non-owners of the CX cars on the current problems.

Over the years I have been fortunate enough to own Morgans from a 1939 4/4 through to our present First Edition Plus Six – one of the first 50 cars. We had a 2017/18 Plus 4 automatic (conversion by Vittese) along with the Plus Six. The Plus 4 was a delight to drive but when compared with the Plus Six it was not even on the same page. When I collected the P6 on arrival and drove on the expressway I could not believe it was a Morgan! The handling and ride was so improved. With the 2018 Plus4 after 100 miles of driving and I was well shaken and ready for a rest, whereas in the P6 I can drive 300 miles and be ready to go out for the evening.

Yes I knew from day One that the brakes were soft and rather suspect, and this replacement is only doing what I would have done myself
.
And yes I know that the suspension springs and dampers are quietly failing and the ride height dropping such that we drag on bumps in the road. And that I’m about to replace them with new coil over damper units from SSL

All this will only go to make a very good Morgan into an incredible Morgan!


Any other CX owners notice this..... ?
Posted By: Lordofthewings

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/07/22 08:37 PM

With no offence intended to the beleagured CX owners, I commend this video to them: https://youtu.be/byQIPdHMpjc
If you're not into Country music and/or have not seen the video, watch and sing along, substituting "Achy breaky brakes" (skipping all the ads...).
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 28/07/22 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by OZ 4/4
Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
I’m disappointed to read comments made by both owners and non-owners of the CX cars on the current problems.

Over the years I have been fortunate enough to own Morgans from a 1939 4/4 through to our present First Edition Plus Six – one of the first 50 cars. We had a 2017/18 Plus 4 automatic (conversion by Vittese) along with the Plus Six. The Plus 4 was a delight to drive but when compared with the Plus Six it was not even on the same page. When I collected the P6 on arrival and drove on the expressway I could not believe it was a Morgan! The handling and ride was so improved. With the 2018 Plus4 after 100 miles of driving and I was well shaken and ready for a rest, whereas in the P6 I can drive 300 miles and be ready to go out for the evening.

Yes I knew from day One that the brakes were soft and rather suspect, and this replacement is only doing what I would have done myself
.
And yes I know that the suspension springs and dampers are quietly failing and the ride height dropping such that we drag on bumps in the road. And that I’m about to replace them with new coil over damper units from SSL

All this will only go to make a very good Morgan into an incredible Morgan!


Any other CX owners notice this..... ?


I haven’t
Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 28/07/22 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by OZ 4/4
Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
I’m disappointed to read comments made by both owners and non-owners of the CX cars on the current problems.

Over the years I have been fortunate enough to own Morgans from a 1939 4/4 through to our present First Edition Plus Six – one of the first 50 cars. We had a 2017/18 Plus 4 automatic (conversion by Vittese) along with the Plus Six. The Plus 4 was a delight to drive but when compared with the Plus Six it was not even on the same page. When I collected the P6 on arrival and drove on the expressway I could not believe it was a Morgan! The handling and ride was so improved. With the 2018 Plus4 after 100 miles of driving and I was well shaken and ready for a rest, whereas in the P6 I can drive 300 miles and be ready to go out for the evening.

Yes I knew from day One that the brakes were soft and rather suspect, and this replacement is only doing what I would have done myself
.
And yes I know that the suspension springs and dampers are quietly failing and the ride height dropping such that we drag on bumps in the road. And that I’m about to replace them with new coil over damper units from SSL

All this will only go to make a very good Morgan into an incredible Morgan!


Any other CX owners notice this..... ?

Originally Posted by OZ 4/4
Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
I’m disappointed to read comments made by both owners and non-owners of the CX cars on the current problems.

Over the years I have been fortunate enough to own Morgans from a 1939 4/4 through to our present First Edition Plus Six – one of the first 50 cars. We had a 2017/18 Plus 4 automatic (conversion by Vittese) along with the Plus Six. The Plus 4 was a delight to drive but when compared with the Plus Six it was not even on the same page. When I collected the P6 on arrival and drove on the expressway I could not believe it was a Morgan! The handling and ride was so improved. With the 2018 Plus4 after 100 miles of driving and I was well shaken and ready for a rest, whereas in the P6 I can drive 300 miles and be ready to go out for the evening.

Yes I knew from day One that the brakes were soft and rather suspect, and this replacement is only doing what I would have done myself
.
And yes I know that the suspension springs and dampers are quietly failing and the ride height dropping such that we drag on bumps in the road. And that I’m about to replace them with new coil over damper units from SSL

All this will only go to make a very good Morgan into an incredible Morgan!


Any other CX owners notice this..... ?

As I understand it, it’s an issue on the Plus Six. The SSL “upgrade” receives good reviews. When I spoke to my dealer about my Plus Four CX about an upgrade they said it was generally agreed that Morgan had done a great job on the Plus Four and the suspension couldn’t really be improved.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 28/07/22 07:15 AM

I understood MMC changed steerrig geometry & the gearbox maps for the 2022 models.
Posted By: RichardV6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 28/07/22 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Deejay
Originally Posted by SimonH
Originally Posted by Graham, G4FUJ
That's what I understood re: radiator Richard.


I’d be looking at how the radiator is mounted…..

Exactly my thoughts all along…
I simply do not buy into the swirl pot idea!

Well let's hope for Morgan's sake you are wrong. I can't see this issue being stretched indefinately.
Posted By: Davetherave

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 28/07/22 08:36 AM

This thread was for brake recall concerns, but as the continuing radiator saga has been mentioned. My questions to Morgan would be ( Engineering hat back on ).

AA: Are ALL the CX vehicles going to be fitted with a swirl pot to prevent thermal shock, if so, when/how?.. If its just specific vehicles to have the swirl pot, why.? Where is the information/notification for this work.

BB: Have the BMW vehicles fitted with the engines that Morgan use experienced similar radiator thermal shock issues, or is the Morgan cooling configuration vastly different.?

With reference to the brake notice issued by Morgan.. If as reported the Morgan factory are gearing up for the radiator work ( recall?? ), where is the information from Morgan... Surely they should be issuing notification to CX owners. How will this impact warranty for CX cars coming to the end of their factory warranty period.

dave
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 28/07/22 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Davetherave
This thread was for brake recall concerns, but as the continuing radiator saga has been mentioned. My questions to Morgan would be ( Engineering hat back on ).

AA: Are ALL the CX vehicles going to be fitted with a swirl pot to prevent thermal shock, if so, when/how?.. If its just specific vehicles to have the swirl pot, why.? Where is the information/notification for this work.

BB: Have the BMW vehicles fitted with the engines that Morgan use experienced similar radiator thermal shock issues, or is the Morgan cooling configuration vastly different.?

With reference to the brake notice issued by Morgan.. If as reported the Morgan factory are gearing up for the radiator work ( recall?? ), where is the information from Morgan... Surely they should be issuing notification to CX owners. How will this impact warranty for CX cars coming to the end of their factory warranty period.

dave

Some serious questions here Dave
looking forward to the answers.....
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 28/07/22 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Adrian777
Originally Posted by OZ 4/4
Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
I’m disappointed to read comments made by both owners and non-owners of the CX cars on the current problems.

Over the years I have been fortunate enough to own Morgans from a 1939 4/4 through to our present First Edition Plus Six – one of the first 50 cars. We had a 2017/18 Plus 4 automatic (conversion by Vittese) along with the Plus Six. The Plus 4 was a delight to drive but when compared with the Plus Six it was not even on the same page. When I collected the P6 on arrival and drove on the expressway I could not believe it was a Morgan! The handling and ride was so improved. With the 2018 Plus4 after 100 miles of driving and I was well shaken and ready for a rest, whereas in the P6 I can drive 300 miles and be ready to go out for the evening.

Yes I knew from day One that the brakes were soft and rather suspect, and this replacement is only doing what I would have done myself
.
And yes I know that the suspension springs and dampers are quietly failing and the ride height dropping such that we drag on bumps in the road. And that I’m about to replace them with new coil over damper units from SSL

All this will only go to make a very good Morgan into an incredible Morgan!


Any other CX owners notice this..... ?

Originally Posted by OZ 4/4
Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
I’m disappointed to read comments made by both owners and non-owners of the CX cars on the current problems.

Over the years I have been fortunate enough to own Morgans from a 1939 4/4 through to our present First Edition Plus Six – one of the first 50 cars. We had a 2017/18 Plus 4 automatic (conversion by Vittese) along with the Plus Six. The Plus 4 was a delight to drive but when compared with the Plus Six it was not even on the same page. When I collected the P6 on arrival and drove on the expressway I could not believe it was a Morgan! The handling and ride was so improved. With the 2018 Plus4 after 100 miles of driving and I was well shaken and ready for a rest, whereas in the P6 I can drive 300 miles and be ready to go out for the evening.

Yes I knew from day One that the brakes were soft and rather suspect, and this replacement is only doing what I would have done myself
.
And yes I know that the suspension springs and dampers are quietly failing and the ride height dropping such that we drag on bumps in the road. And that I’m about to replace them with new coil over damper units from SSL

All this will only go to make a very good Morgan into an incredible Morgan!


Any other CX owners notice this..... ?

As I understand it, it’s an issue on the Plus Six. The SSL “upgrade” receives good reviews. When I spoke to my dealer about my Plus Four CX about an upgrade they said it was generally agreed that Morgan had done a great job on the Plus Four and the suspension couldn’t really be improved.


Surely you must be kidding.....
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 28/07/22 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Davetherave
This thread was for brake recall concerns, but as the continuing radiator saga has been mentioned. My questions to Morgan would be ( Engineering hat back on ).

AA: Are ALL the CX vehicles going to be fitted with a swirl pot to prevent thermal shock, if so, when/how?.. If its just specific vehicles to have the swirl pot, why.? Where is the information/notification for this work.

BB: Have the BMW vehicles fitted with the engines that Morgan use experienced similar radiator thermal shock issues, or is the Morgan cooling configuration vastly different.?

With reference to the brake notice issued by Morgan.. If as reported the Morgan factory are gearing up for the radiator work ( recall?? ), where is the information from Morgan... Surely they should be issuing notification to CX owners. How will this impact warranty for CX cars coming to the end of their factory warranty period.

dave


From a sample of one CX owner I know the cars going back to the factory for the rad fix. His car has already had 4 radiators in under 2 years
Posted By: Davetherave

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 28/07/22 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by John V6
Originally Posted by Davetherave
This thread was for brake recall concerns, but as the continuing radiator saga has been mentioned. My questions to Morgan would be ( Engineering hat back on ).

AA: Are ALL the CX vehicles going to be fitted with a swirl pot to prevent thermal shock, if so, when/how?.. If its just specific vehicles to have the swirl pot, why.? Where is the information/notification for this work.

BB: Have the BMW vehicles fitted with the engines that Morgan use experienced similar radiator thermal shock issues, or is the Morgan cooling configuration vastly different.?

With reference to the brake notice issued by Morgan.. If as reported the Morgan factory are gearing up for the radiator work ( recall?? ), where is the information from Morgan... Surely they should be issuing notification to CX owners. How will this impact warranty for CX cars coming to the end of their factory warranty period.

dave


From a sample of one CX owner I know the cars going back to the factory for the rad fix. His car has already had 4 radiators in under 2 years


Logically if the issue is a design issue then all CX vehicles should have the latest radiator fix. Some cars failures may be due to milage driven and/or driving conditions and/or driving technique. Just because a vehicle has suffered multiple radiator failures in a relative small period of time does not mean that the ones that ( so far ) have not experienced failure will not do so in the future when they are out of warranty.. hence my original question are all CX cars going to have the swirl pot and if not why?.
Posted By: NZPlusSix

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 28/07/22 10:04 AM

In New Zealand we have four Plus Sixes all made in the first 60 odd cars in the later part of 2019. All have experienced a loss of ride height. The lowest point is under the muffler where we have between 80 to 90 mm ground clearance on a flat surface in an unloaded state. In minimum clearance for all road vehicles in NZ is 100mm. All are going to be fitted, at owners expense, with SSL coil over damper units as soon as they arrive in NZ.

It would be interesting to know just how widespread this problem is - maybe the road surfaces in NZ are harder on suspensions than in the UK? Maybe the time to measure your Plus Six's clearance!

The Plus Four suspension appears to be different and fine. In fact SSL have said that they are happy with it and may not be able to improve on it.
Posted By: Davetherave

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 28/07/22 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
In New Zealand we have four Plus Sixes all made in the first 60 odd cars in the later part of 2019. All have experienced a loss of ride height. The lowest point is under the muffler where we have between 80 to 90 mm ground clearance on a flat surface in an unloaded state. In minimum clearance for all road vehicles in NZ is 100mm. All are going to be fitted, at owners expense, with SSL coil over damper units as soon as they arrive in NZ.

It would be interesting to know just how widespread this problem is - maybe the road surfaces in NZ are harder on suspensions than in the UK? Maybe the time to measure your Plus Six's clearance!

The Plus Four suspension appears to be different and fine. In fact SSL have said that they are happy with it and may not be able to improve on it.


Engineering hat on again.. If early Plus 6 cars are starting to show ride height reduction, then the issue is the spring. The SSL replacement modification ( I believe) changes both damper and spring in the coil over unit. and a modification to the front roll bar.
Posted By: NZPlusSix

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 29/07/22 07:01 AM

To add more to the matter of the loss of ride height on our Plus Six of even more concern was teh following information from a reputable source

"One issue with the PlusSix, is that the springs, which are good quality, are made to competition principles.
By that I would consider the designs to be inadequately durable for road car use. Put simply they will collapse in service over time."
[color:#FF6666][/color]

Hence not wanting to either have more damage to the underside of the car, and more worrying to have the suspension collapse with devastating results (maybe worse than loss of brakes) we are replacing teh units with SSL coil over damper units. Peace of mind at least!
Posted By: Jens

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 29/07/22 08:43 AM

Radiators, brakes, now the springs??

I think, with all this news, many trad drivers who have toyed with the idea of ​​getting a CX are very glad they refrained from doing so.

Of course, I wish all CX drivers that they soon only have to worry about enjoyable rides.
Posted By: MikeFromPembroke

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 29/07/22 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Jens
Radiators, brakes, now the springs??

I think, with all this news, many trad drivers who have toyed with the idea of ​​getting a CX are very glad they refrained from doing so.

Of course, I wish all CX drivers that they soon only have to worry about enjoyable rides.


Don’t forget the “lower wishbone nut has been found under-spec'd so that's due for replacement as well”.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 29/07/22 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by IMHO
Originally Posted by Jonathan G
In my experience Morgan don’t give anything away. If they do it’ll be a first.


You are so right.

Here’s an example: I paid Morgan £1500 to collect my car and strengthen the lower wishbone connections on my M3W (a known cracking point). It was delivered back and they hadn’t repainted the weld area which was already rusting (where is their QC?). After a discussion I offered to repaint them myself as they refused to collect it again (even though I had paid for this the first time) and they would send the paint they recommend. After two weeks off the road, nothing arrived (they never sent it) so I bought the paint myself. Morgan plain refused to reimburse me the £30 cost of the paint. QED.



That's not what new or potential owners want to hear. You must have been very disappointed.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 29/07/22 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
To add more to the matter of the loss of ride height on our Plus Six of even more concern was teh following information from a reputable source

"One issue with the PlusSix, is that the springs, which are good quality, are made to competition principles.
By that I would consider the designs to be inadequately durable for road car use. Put simply they will collapse in service over time."
[color:#FF6666][/color]

Hence not wanting to either have more damage to the underside of the car, and more worrying to have the suspension collapse with devastating results (maybe worse than loss of brakes) we are replacing teh units with SSL coil over damper units. Peace of mind at least!

According to the post by Adrian7777, and I think others, it is a flaw of the plus 6 which has been identified and well known to Morgan and its dealers

Forgive me for asking, but if the suspension fails so quickly on your new car
Why are you or anyone else considering paying for the fix when the vehicle is not fit for purpose and becomes non compliant so fast ?

This sounds like the very problem we had in Australia with a string of trads in 2011
Our Federal authorities were very quick to force Morgan to sort that out at NO cost to owners.

May be that explains another post that these vehicles are being offer in the market at a significant discount

Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 29/07/22 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by OZ 4/4
Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
To add more to the matter of the loss of ride height on our Plus Six of even more concern was teh following information from a reputable source

"One issue with the PlusSix, is that the springs, which are good quality, are made to competition principles.
By that I would consider the designs to be inadequately durable for road car use. Put simply they will collapse in service over time."
[/color]

Hence not wanting to either have more damage to the underside of the car, and more worrying to have the suspension collapse with devastating results (maybe worse than loss of brakes) we are replacing teh units with SSL coil over damper units. Peace of mind at least!

According to the post by Adrian7777, and I think others, it is a flaw of the plus 6 which has been identified and well known to Morgan and its dealers

Forgive me for asking, but if the suspension fails so quickly on your new car
Why are you or anyone else considering paying for the fix when the vehicle is not fit for purpose and becomes non compliant so fast ?

This sounds like the very problem we had in Australia with a string of trads in 2011
Our Federal authorities were very quick to force Morgan to sort that out at NO cost to owners.

May be that explains another post that these vehicles are being offer in the market at a significant discount


Originally Posted by OZ 4/4
Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
To add more to the matter of the loss of ride height on our Plus Six of even more concern was teh following information from a reputable source

"One issue with the PlusSix, is that the springs, which are good quality, are made to competition principles.
By that I would consider the designs to be inadequately durable for road car use. Put simply they will collapse in service over time."
[color:#FF6666]

Hence not wanting to either have more damage to the underside of the car, and more worrying to have the suspension collapse with devastating results (maybe worse than loss of brakes) we are replacing teh units with SSL coil over damper units. Peace of mind at least!

According to the post by Adrian7777, and I think others, it is a flaw of the plus 6 which has been identified and well known to Morgan and its dealers

Forgive me for asking, but if the suspension fails so quickly on your new car
Why are you or anyone else considering paying for the fix when the vehicle is not fit for purpose and becomes non compliant so fast ?

This sounds like the very problem we had in Australia with a string of trads in 2011
Our Federal authorities were very quick to force Morgan to sort that out at NO cost to owners.

May be that explains another post that these vehicles are being offer in the market at a significant discount


I think you make a very fair point which had me questioning myself.
I was an early buyer of a CX Plus Four, taking delivery in July 2020. After a few months of driving, I felt that the car could be improved in a few areas. 1. The exhaust could sound more sporty: I was told by my dealer that the new sports exhaust wasn’t that good and I may be better waiting until the car was out of warranty and then sourcing my own in the market. If I fitted one that wasn’t from Morgan it would invalidate the warranty. Since then, I understand Morgan have introduced a switchable sports exhaust option.
2. The seats were poor and I had them re-done which made then FAR better. Since then Morgan have introduced the comfort seat.
3. The suspension I felt was too hard and bouncy, which I felt caused unnecessary road holding problems when coming into a bend at speed on a less than smooth surface. When I saw the SSL suspension upgrade for the Plus Six advertised I asked my dealer about it. It appears that the factory improved the suspension for the introduction of the Plus Four and SSL said they couldn’t improve it.
4. The hood was ridiculously difficult to operate. This has since been rectified by my dealer as it was too tight. Since then I understand Morgan have introduced a better hood.
5. The brakes squealed to an embarrassing level. I was told all Plus Fours did. The fix was to reverse them so they only squealed in reverse.

As many on here have pointed out, early buyers have effectively been used as beta testers. You raise a fair point as to why we would be prepared to pay to fix these issues ourselves. I think the answer is that of course we shouldn’t but we do because the car is our pride and joy. For many the fulfilment of a life long dream. We want it to be the best it can be. We want to love it to the extent we are / were prepared to look beyond its flaws. In fact, the flaws were part of the experience. However, not being able to drive the car is a flaw too far and it has now soured the experience.
Sad to say I have SORNED mine today. A 2 year old £70k+ sports car in the middle of the best summer in a generation. Something I can’t quite believe. Neither can I believe I was prepared to spend so much money on it now, as sad to say, the brake debacle has certainly tainted the whole experience for me.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 29/07/22 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Adrian777
Originally Posted by OZ 4/4
Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
To add more to the matter of the loss of ride height on our Plus Six of even more concern was teh following information from a reputable source

"One issue with the PlusSix, is that the springs, which are good quality, are made to competition principles.
By that I would consider the designs to be inadequately durable for road car use. Put simply they will collapse in service over time."
[/color]

Hence not wanting to either have more damage to the underside of the car, and more worrying to have the suspension collapse with devastating results (maybe worse than loss of brakes) we are replacing teh units with SSL coil over damper units. Peace of mind at least!

According to the post by Adrian7777, and I think others, it is a flaw of the plus 6 which has been identified and well known to Morgan and its dealers

Forgive me for asking, but if the suspension fails so quickly on your new car
Why are you or anyone else considering paying for the fix when the vehicle is not fit for purpose and becomes non compliant so fast ?

This sounds like the very problem we had in Australia with a string of trads in 2011
Our Federal authorities were very quick to force Morgan to sort that out at NO cost to owners.

May be that explains another post that these vehicles are being offer in the market at a significant discount


Originally Posted by OZ 4/4
Originally Posted by NZPlusSix
To add more to the matter of the loss of ride height on our Plus Six of even more concern was teh following information from a reputable source

"One issue with the PlusSix, is that the springs, which are good quality, are made to competition principles.
By that I would consider the designs to be inadequately durable for road car use. Put simply they will collapse in service over time."
[color:#FF6666]

Hence not wanting to either have more damage to the underside of the car, and more worrying to have the suspension collapse with devastating results (maybe worse than loss of brakes) we are replacing teh units with SSL coil over damper units. Peace of mind at least!

According to the post by Adrian7777, and I think others, it is a flaw of the plus 6 which has been identified and well known to Morgan and its dealers

Forgive me for asking, but if the suspension fails so quickly on your new car
Why are you or anyone else considering paying for the fix when the vehicle is not fit for purpose and becomes non compliant so fast ?

This sounds like the very problem we had in Australia with a string of trads in 2011
Our Federal authorities were very quick to force Morgan to sort that out at NO cost to owners.

May be that explains another post that these vehicles are being offer in the market at a significant discount


I think you make a very fair point which had me questioning myself.
I was an early buyer of a CX Plus Four, taking delivery in July 2020. After a few months of driving, I felt that the car could be improved in a few areas. 1. The exhaust could sound more sporty: I was told by my dealer that the new sports exhaust wasn’t that good and I may be better waiting until the car was out of warranty and then sourcing my own in the market. If I fitted one that wasn’t from Morgan it would invalidate the warranty. Since then, I understand Morgan have introduced a switchable sports exhaust option.
2. The seats were poor and I had them re-done which made then FAR better. Since then Morgan have introduced the comfort seat.
3. The suspension I felt was too hard and bouncy, which I felt caused unnecessary road holding problems when coming into a bend at speed on a less than smooth surface. When I saw the SSL suspension upgrade for the Plus Six advertised I asked my dealer about it. It appears that the factory improved the suspension for the introduction of the Plus Four and SSL said they couldn’t improve it.
4. The hood was ridiculously difficult to operate. This has since been rectified by my dealer as it was too tight. Since then I understand Morgan have introduced a better hood.
5. The brakes squealed to an embarrassing level. I was told all Plus Fours did. The fix was to reverse them so they only squealed in reverse.

As many on here have pointed out, early buyers have effectively been used as beta testers. You raise a fair point as to why we would be prepared to pay to fix these issues ourselves. I think the answer is that of course we shouldn’t but we do because the car is our pride and joy. For many the fulfilment of a life long dream. We want it to be the best it can be. We want to love it to the extent we are / were prepared to look beyond its flaws. In fact, the flaws were part of the experience. However, not being able to drive the car is a flaw too far and it has now soured the experience.
Sad to say I have SORNED mine today. A 2 year old £70k+ sports car in the middle of the best summer in a generation. Something I can’t quite believe. Neither can I believe I was prepared to spend so much money on it now, as sad to say, the brake debacle has certainly tainted the whole experience for me.

Sorry to hear this news Adrian
I think it is a sad for you and a sad experience for all CX owners....
Posted By: bella1

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/07/22 05:31 AM

I am saddened to hear this
Posted By: NZPlusSix

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/07/22 08:00 AM

Don’t get me wrong! When it comes to both ease and general driving pleasure the Plus Six is a great car, and light years ahead of any other Morgan I have owned.
I’ve always regarded my Morgans as “work in progress” and have been prepared to overlook and accept minor things like badges being left off. When they forgot to fit the power steering I had paid for then that was a bit over the top.
BUT
My Korean SUV has no problems and will go 100,000 miles with the only expense a set of tyres and a service. When you spend 100K you expect a vehicle without basic faults like:
1. Brakes - faulty from Day One and on which I spent money trying to get to the bottom of the problem. Neither the dealer nor MMC were prepared to admit two years ago that there was a problem.
2. Lower wishbone – if an apprentice had fitted a serrated lock washer against an aluminium chassis then the boss would have had his proverbial guts for garters. OK it only took round 15 minutes up on the hoist to put right, but once again at my expense.
3. Suspension – apparently MMC knew that the springs wee weakening and the ride height was reducing but they did nothing for me as a Plus Six owner. I guess they were waiting for a total collapse, or at least the bottom of the sump ripped off! Once again putting this defect right is apparently going to be at my expense.
4. Radiators - now we have the problem of radiators failing. Maybe I need to rub my rabbit’s foot!
5. Wait, I haven’t mentioned the problem of the stop lights coming on when the car goes over the odd bump or just when they like on the highway. And this is not confined to one car – just follow a Plus Six and you will see what I mean.
6. I’m sure that other Plus Six owners can add to this list. As one TM writer put it appears that we have purchased the beta model – and my wife (who owns the car) says a lemon!
HOWEVER
I’m Morgan loyal to a fault – I love and have great pride in owning a classic Morgan
BUT
All I ask is that MMC try and keep me happy!! Not much to ask!!
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/07/22 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Mikemog6
Eight radiators in two years! Must be a world record , do Guinness know?

laugh2
Posted By: Robbie

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/07/22 11:11 AM

What Annoys me is that I purchased my car from the then official dealer who has subsequently given up the agency due to the way the factory treated him and was requiring a crazy level of stockholding for a very small market, and quarterly Portal fees. Now the factory refuse to supply him with the brake rectification kit unless he PAYS for the parts - otherwise I have to send my car 200miles to the new dealer to have the work done. The radiator was changed by the first dealer, who I trust and I wanted him to rectify the brakes BUT " we have appointed a dealer to do warranty work" so the factory are actually putting the original dealer in a dubious legal position as my contract is with him and the factory will not allow him to fulfil it!!!

I got assurances (Sadly, only verbally) from the MD of Morgan last July that any warranty work required on my car would be handled by the dealer I bought it from. This seems to be worthless as far as John Bower, the Aftersales manager, is concerned.

To say I am annoyed and disappointed is putting it mildly -- This is my fourth Morgan and I love the car, but I thought Morgan dealt with higher standards than they are now exhibiting. I doubt I will ever either trust them again or buy another.

I suspect that if they continue to operate this way, the company will fold which is very sad!

Now I find that they have gone on holidays when owners(and dealers) need a supply of Brake kits!!!!!!!
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/07/22 12:35 PM

Yes, my dealer told me that they propose the super 3 with so much options , that it is almost impossible to sold them. They would cost 80000 euros.
Posted By: bella1

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/07/22 12:55 PM

Hi ,Robbie i both agree and totally sympathise with your case I also purchased a 22plate plus 6 not without its niggles ,I also am looking at a very expensive ornament in my garage ,having worked for both BMW and MERC I find MMCs approach to the problems especially the stop drive issue ,an extension to your warranty ! Oh someone needs to get in the real world here and treat your customer base with the respect it deserves .information ,rectification ,and finally compensation for starters ,before legals get involved and nobody wants that .Bella1
Posted By: Haytop

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/07/22 01:49 PM

Hopefully this post (749896) this reflects the consensus amongst CX owners now stimulated by the inaction of and lack of information from MMC.

Readers will have noted that in the past I have expressed concerns which the MSCC have passed onto MMC without apparently obtaining any real specific explanation or response. So far as I am concerned this shows lack of consideration and respect for both established and new owners which could cause substantial damage to the reputation and goodwill of the marque. The situation warrants more than general platitudes (see page 15 of the Miscellany of August).
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/07/22 01:55 PM

We have the money to buy a CX. The boss isn't opposed but as they rolled out said sagely wait 3 years or so for the faults to be fixed. I still prefer my trad but as old age gets closer & the knees especially get worse I'm hoping they fix the issue and are still in business.
Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/07/22 06:25 PM

Whilst I understand the reasoning I have to say that I find it quite incredible to see Instagram posts from dealers showing new customers collecting new CX cars who have effectively “ jumped the queue” for the fix. In fact it’s an insult to their established customers whose money they have banked long ago. The very same customers they have sold cars to that are not fit to drive. Not fit for purpose.
I cannot imagine a scenario where any reputable business would think such posts were a good idea.
Frankly, feel I have had the piss taken out of me. What the hell are they thinking?
Posted By: Mikemog6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/07/22 06:36 PM

Frankly, feel I have had the piss taken out of me. What the hell are they thinking?
Spot on Adrian.very short sited by any business that does it.
Posted By: Paul F

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/07/22 06:51 PM

I saw the post to which you refer and had the same thought.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/07/22 07:10 PM

I saw the handover yesterday and thought what are they thinking about plastering that over their FB page for the world to see, have they no shame or guilt doh

I totally understand the commercial aspect but there is such a thing as customer service and loyalty and too many people have very expensive paper weights in their garages at the moment, the last thing they need is salt rubbing in the wound, wake up to the real world for goodness sake.

They lurk here gentlemen so let your feelings be known if you so wish. (Unlike their FB page they won't be able to remove the comments Gary and I made on it ).
Posted By: DWil23

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/07/22 08:09 PM

Ah the wheels of commerce …
Posted By: Perry_P_M3W

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/07/22 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Adrian777
Whilst I understand the reasoning I have to say that I find it quite incredible to see Instagram posts from dealers showing new customers collecting new CX cars who have effectively “ jumped the queue” for the fix. In fact it’s an insult to their established customers whose money they have banked long ago. The very same customers they have sold cars to that are not fit to drive. Not fit for purpose.
I cannot imagine a scenario where any reputable business would think such posts were a good idea.
Frankly, feel I have had the piss taken out of me. What the hell are they thinking?


Nobody jumped the queue. Different parts are used for new vs. replacement, which is the case for most things automotive. `The alternative is to idle the factory for x weeks while MMC waits for their supplier to send the parts to the retailers, wait some more for the retailer to book the appointments and wait some more for all the current cars to be fixed to then start the factory again. Doesn't make sense.

MMC most likely kept building cars and held what they could at the factory for when the parts could be retrofitted. New deliveries have been affected as well.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
I saw the handover yesterday and thought what are they thinking about plastering that over their FB page for the world to see, have they no shame or guilt doh

I totally understand the commercial aspect but there is such a thing as customer service and loyalty and too many people have very expensive paper weights in their garages at the moment, the last thing they need is salt rubbing in the wound, wake up to the real world for goodness sake.

They lurk here gentlemen so let your feelings be known if you so wish. (Unlike their FB page they won't be able to remove the comments Gary and I made on it ).

Very curious that Oakmere removed a post suggesting new owners Paul & Beverly should consider joining TalkMorgan.....
Ultimately, it does not really matter because I'm sure by now, Paul & Beverly will have been made very aware of the benefits, information and support on the forum
Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by Perry_P_M3W
Originally Posted by Adrian777
Whilst I understand the reasoning I have to say that I find it quite incredible to see Instagram posts from dealers showing new customers collecting new CX cars who have effectively “ jumped the queue” for the fix. In fact it’s an insult to their established customers whose money they have banked long ago. The very same customers they have sold cars to that are not fit to drive. Not fit for purpose.
I cannot imagine a scenario where any reputable business would think such posts were a good idea.
Frankly, feel I have had the piss taken out of me. What the hell are they thinking?


Nobody jumped the queue. Different parts are used for new vs. replacement, which is the case for most things automotive. `The alternative is to idle the factory for x weeks while MMC waits for their supplier to send the parts to the retailers, wait some more for the retailer to book the appointments and wait some more for all the current cars to be fixed to then start the factory again. Doesn't make sense.

MMC most likely kept building cars and held what they could at the factory for when the parts could be retrofitted. New deliveries have been affected as well.


If the new kits have been retro fitted to new cars to allow those new cars to be sold when existing cars are off the road, then the new cars have effectively “jumped the queue”. The kits are clearly in short supply and MMC and / or the dealer have prioritised the new sale over resolving the issue for at least one of their existing customers. In any event, to then publicise this on various social media sites is insensitive to say the least. I am not sure they fully understand the level of concern and for many anger that exists around this issue.
Continuing to build cars while they wait for the new parts makes perfect sense so no need to idle the factory, even though it appears it has been shut down this week anyway. I am quite sure they often have to wait for parts.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 07:08 AM

I imagine that Morgan have to keep selling new cars to survive. I doubt that they can just have a three or four month hiatus in sales.

The recall is going to cost them a considerable amount of money (parts, labour, transports etc) and they've got to pay for it somehow.

The new owners in the linked article are obviously chuffed to bollox over their new purchases and should be welcomed into the Morgan world with every fanfare that goes with such an event.. We should celebrate with them, rather than expecting it to be shoved under the carpet like some kind of illegitimate backstairs child.....
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 07:08 AM

If the new kits have been retro fitted to new cars to allow those new cars to be sold when existing cars are off the road, then the new cars have effectively “jumped the queue”. The kits are clearly in short supply and MMC and / or the dealer have prioritised the new sale over resolving the issue for at least one of their existing customers. In any event, to then publicise this on various social media sites is insensitive to say the least. I am not sure they fully understand the level of concern and for many anger that exists around this issue.
Continuing to build cars while they wait for the new parts makes perfect sense so no need to idle the factory, even though it appears it has been shut down this week anyway. I am quite sure they often have to wait for parts.[/quote]


Not meant at you personally Adrian.

They do seem to have made their bed here but is that totally fair? Their perspective is probably different. Whilst a comment on another thread about CX's being parked everywhere during a recent visit shows there is also a backlog there I would guess cashflow is king as it often is in manufacturing. If the stock sits waiting for (three) parts that need replacing the cashflow gets a spanking which needs to be understood? Also promises have been made to new owners. They are equally deprived of this years summer of CX love. I don't think it's an either/or but an all in truth? Both threads are embarrassing the factory, and should do. I was hoping that the CX replacing both the Aero and Trad meant that the time spent engineering it would have weeded out some of the old constant change issues given the company was going to be 100% reliant on it.

I for one would not take delivery of a CX at this point. Not unless I had a signed letter committing to five years/50k of no cost support on known common faults covering the suspension (droopy springs) cooling (radiator) and brakes (squeal and security) at Morgan's cost of parts and labour. £80K+ does give you the right to expect better. I got the recall on the MB's brakes about the same time and MB had replacements at most/every dealer and were saying 1-2 days for the change with priority over service business. The MB dealer knew the drill and even weeded me out as I had the Brembo brakes on mine. But that's a whole different animal with many regular recalls to deal with. I am guessing legal have placed a degree of gagging on the team. In the old days it would have been more personal and probably just as chaotic.

I am more surprised to see the comments appearing around saggy bottom having not seen it raised on here before. TM has traditionally been a great forum to share and learn. Open and honest but respectful, so it has not become a mess driving people away and descending to the level of pistonheads.

If this gaff shows me anything it's that the typical owner still cares a great deal which is probably a relief to the factory but one not to be taken advantage of as may have happened in the past. The new VC style funded, future looking, business needs to look at the design to build to sales to support model again. It seems to have spent money with the London dealer etc but has gutted the long standing resellers which we have relied on and who know the stock in the field. I am having to take a train for three and a half hours on monday morning to collect my car from service.

Realising that the factory, like most, has an annual shutdown I would have thought it good to use the time to bring in a selection of trained/certified temporary mechanics, manage them carefully, and accelerate the replacement work. Maybe they are and we are not hearing it. I am certain in this financial squeeze that a few of the staff could have been incentivised to provide hands on QA. It would have also sent out the right message. A bit more of that is needed. Whilst the "I am not at the front of the queue" stomping would have occurred the transparency would be welcome and befitting a company trading on the personal touch.

I am not a CX owner. However the Aero also had a few gremlins and both the early Series 2 and later Coupe that I have experience of had many of the same gaps in development. There was no model year as things got changed on a slightly ad-hoc basis back then. I think without TM I would have moved on to a regular brand even though I love these cars.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by OZ 4/4
Originally Posted by +8Rich
I saw the handover yesterday and thought what are they thinking about plastering that over their FB page for the world to see, have they no shame or guilt doh

I totally understand the commercial aspect but there is such a thing as customer service and loyalty and too many people have very expensive paper weights in their garages at the moment, the last thing they need is salt rubbing in the wound, wake up to the real world for goodness sake.

They lurk here gentlemen so let your feelings be known if you so wish. (Unlike their FB page they won't be able to remove the comments Gary and I made on it ).

Very curious that Oakmere removed a post suggesting new owners Paul & Beverly should consider joining TalkMorgan.....
Ultimately, it does not really matter because I'm sure by now, Paul & Beverly will have been made very aware of the benefits, information and support on the forum




I'm sure they will find their way here and we can congratulate them and give them a proper welcome Gary.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by OZ 4/4
Originally Posted by +8Rich
I saw the handover yesterday and thought what are they thinking about plastering that over their FB page for the world to see, have they no shame or guilt doh

I totally understand the commercial aspect but there is such a thing as customer service and loyalty and too many people have very expensive paper weights in their garages at the moment, the last thing they need is salt rubbing in the wound, wake up to the real world for goodness sake.

They lurk here gentlemen so let your feelings be known if you so wish. (Unlike their FB page they won't be able to remove the comments Gary and I made on it ).

Very curious that Oakmere removed a post suggesting new owners Paul & Beverly should consider joining TalkMorgan.....
Ultimately, it does not really matter because I'm sure by now, Paul & Beverly will have been made very aware of the benefits, information and support on the forum




I'm sure they will find their way here and we can congratulate them and give them a proper welcome Gary.

A warm welcome awaits
Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by TBM
I imagine that Morgan have to keep selling new cars to survive. I doubt that they can just have a three or four month hiatus in sales.

The recall is going to cost them a considerable amount of money (parts, labour, transports etc) and they've got to pay for it somehow.

The new owners in the linked article are obviously chuffed to bollox over their new purchases and should be welcomed into the Morgan world with every fanfare that goes with such an event.. We should celebrate with them, rather than expecting it to be shoved under the carpet like some kind of illegitimate backstairs child.....

I agree the new owners should be welcomed. I am delighted for them and I truly hope their Morgan experience is better than mine and that all our motoring is trouble free from now on. I don’t blame them for a minute.
TBH when my photo was taken at handover and whilst I treasure the pictures, I really thought I was doing it for them, to assist with their sales. Not everyone agrees to have their picture taken either. I know of at least one who refused and some look a little embarrassed.
Posted By: Corrosion Guy

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 11:04 AM

I am happy to spread good news, at last.
Friday 22 July I had an e-mail from a logistics Co. advising that they would collect my Plus Four on Monday 25th. Done with no drama.
Vehicle received at Malvern (mine is a works supplied vehicle from the Covid period) Tuesday 26th.
I was advised Friday 29 July that the vehicle was available for collection 12 noon that day or am Saturday. I chose Saturday.
The guy who has managed the team doing the work, Mark Cross, was there planning the continued work and spent time with me showing me and detailing all the work done. All 3 issues above fully resolved.
Remember, last week was the Works shutdown; these guys worked through.
Good job. I hope that other owners, through the Dealers and directly with the Works, get the same treatment.
Please put out the good news that the end is in sight.
Posted By: Paul F

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Corrosion Guy
I am happy to spread good news, at last.
Friday 22 July I had an e-mail from a logistics Co. advising that they would collect my Plus Four on Monday 25th. Done with no drama.
Vehicle received at Malvern (mine is a works supplied vehicle from the Covid period) Tuesday 26th.
I was advised Friday 29 July that the vehicle was available for collection 12 noon that day or am Saturday. I chose Saturday.
The guy who has managed the team doing the work, Mark Cross, was there planning the continued work and spent time with me showing me and detailing all the work done. All 3 issues above fully resolved.
Remember, last week was the Works shutdown; these guys worked through.
Good job. I hope that other owners, through the Dealers and directly with the Works, get the same treatment.
Please put out the good news that the end is in sight.


This is excellent news. Hopefully in a few weeks time all this will be a distant memory. And there are still 5 months of fun driving left in 2022.
Posted By: Perry_P_M3W

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Adrian777
Originally Posted by Perry_P_M3W
Originally Posted by Adrian777
Whilst I understand the reasoning I have to say that I find it quite incredible to see Instagram posts from dealers showing new customers collecting new CX cars who have effectively “ jumped the queue” for the fix. In fact it’s an insult to their established customers whose money they have banked long ago. The very same customers they have sold cars to that are not fit to drive. Not fit for purpose.
I cannot imagine a scenario where any reputable business would think such posts were a good idea.
Frankly, feel I have had the piss taken out of me. What the hell are they thinking?


Nobody jumped the queue. Different parts are used for new vs. replacement, which is the case for most things automotive. `The alternative is to idle the factory for x weeks while MMC waits for their supplier to send the parts to the retailers, wait some more for the retailer to book the appointments and wait some more for all the current cars to be fixed to then start the factory again. Doesn't make sense.

MMC most likely kept building cars and held what they could at the factory for when the parts could be retrofitted. New deliveries have been affected as well.


If the new kits have been retro fitted to new cars to allow those new cars to be sold when existing cars are off the road, then the new cars have effectively “jumped the queue”. The kits are clearly in short supply and MMC and / or the dealer have prioritised the new sale over resolving the issue for at least one of their existing customers. In any event, to then publicise this on various social media sites is insensitive to say the least. I am not sure they fully understand the level of concern and for many anger that exists around this issue.
Continuing to build cars while they wait for the new parts makes perfect sense so no need to idle the factory, even though it appears it has been shut down this week anyway. I am quite sure they often have to wait for parts.


Apologies if I misspoke. As I touched on a few pages back, almost all parts that are made for a car go down two production lines. One for line fit and another for aftersales/warranty work. `Both have separate departments and contrast with the OEM. I am not saying it's correct, but it is how it's done for any part supplier that I've dealt with and even worked for.

There is a lot more on this topic that would likely bore most but in short, often the OEM, in this case Morgan, are at the mercy of the supplier.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Corrosion Guy
I am happy to spread good news, at last.
Friday 22 July I had an e-mail from a logistics Co. advising that they would collect my Plus Four on Monday 25th. Done with no drama.
Vehicle received at Malvern (mine is a works supplied vehicle from the Covid period) Tuesday 26th.
I was advised Friday 29 July that the vehicle was available for collection 12 noon that day or am Saturday. I chose Saturday.
The guy who has managed the team doing the work, Mark Cross, was there planning the continued work and spent time with me showing me and detailing all the work done. All 3 issues above fully resolved.
Remember, last week was the Works shutdown; these guys worked through.
Good job. I hope that other owners, through the Dealers and directly with the Works, get the same treatment.
Please put out the good news that the end is in sight.

Brilliant news, lets hope the other boys get sorted out shortly, thanks for the positive update and enjoy your trouble free miles thumbs
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
Originally Posted by Corrosion Guy
I am happy to spread good news, at last.
Friday 22 July I had an e-mail from a logistics Co. advising that they would collect my Plus Four on Monday 25th. Done with no drama.
Vehicle received at Malvern (mine is a works supplied vehicle from the Covid period) Tuesday 26th.
I was advised Friday 29 July that the vehicle was available for collection 12 noon that day or am Saturday. I chose Saturday.
The guy who has managed the team doing the work, Mark Cross, was there planning the continued work and spent time with me showing me and detailing all the work done. All 3 issues above fully resolved.
Remember, last week was the Works shutdown; these guys worked through.
Good job. I hope that other owners, through the Dealers and directly with the Works, get the same treatment.
Please put out the good news that the end is in sight.

Brilliant news, lets hope the other boys get sorted out shortly, thanks for the positive update and enjoy your trouble free miles thumbs


Agreed, great news.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 12:35 PM

One question , is the braking better ?
Posted By: gaston

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by thierry242
One question , is the braking better ?


Someone in this thread got their car back and says the brakes are firmer.
Posted By: Mikemog6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 12:59 PM

3 issues?
Is that, brake master cylinder, radiator and suspension springs?
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 01:21 PM

Yes but it was a plus 6
Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Corrosion Guy
I am happy to spread good news, at last.
Friday 22 July I had an e-mail from a logistics Co. advising that they would collect my Plus Four on Monday 25th. Done with no drama.
Vehicle received at Malvern (mine is a works supplied vehicle from the Covid period) Tuesday 26th.
I was advised Friday 29 July that the vehicle was available for collection 12 noon that day or am Saturday. I chose Saturday.
The guy who has managed the team doing the work, Mark Cross, was there planning the continued work and spent time with me showing me and detailing all the work done. All 3 issues above fully resolved.
Remember, last week was the Works shutdown; these guys worked through.
Good job. I hope that other owners, through the Dealers and directly with the Works, get the same treatment.
Please put out the good news that the end is in sight.

We need a like button. Fantastic news.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Mikemog6
3 issues?
Is that, brake master cylinder, radiator and suspension springs?

Yep, I'm confused
I thought it was only the Plus 6 that had the serious suspension issues

So beside radiator and brakes, what was the third issue on the CX Plus 4...?
confused
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 08:43 PM

I read on here it is an under specced front suspension bolt on the Plus Four that requires replacement.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/07/22 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich
I read on here it is an under specced front suspension bolt on the Plus Four that requires replacement.

Got ya....
On the ball as always
Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/08/22 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Haytop
Hopefully this post (749896) this reflects the consensus amongst CX owners now stimulated by the inaction of and lack of information from MMC.

Readers will have noted that in the past I have expressed concerns which the MSCC have passed onto MMC without apparently obtaining any real specific explanation or response. So far as I am concerned this shows lack of consideration and respect for both established and new owners which could cause substantial damage to the reputation and goodwill of the marque. The situation warrants more than general platitudes (see page 15 of the Miscellany of August).

I scoured the August edition of Miscellany for any mention of this and until I read your post I couldn’t find one.
I have no wish to be critical but it is difficult to comprehend how a magazine published only about Morgans and owning a Morgan can largely ignore this issue save for one short paragraph effectively saying there is no update.
Is there a general willingness to publicly not mention it, in case it damages the brand? Even to existing Morgan owners (Trad owners included) who must know about this problem?
Meanwhile, new owners receiving 6 months trial membership = 1.
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/08/22 10:14 AM

It's a fine line Adrian. MSCC has built up a good relationship with MMC over the past few years. And lets face it, MSCC can only release information it has been given by MMC, which has also been authorised for release.
Miscellany isn't there to speculate or throw accusations around. It's a club magazine run by enthusiasts, most of whom are unpaid, but give their time willingly. I have no doubt that the unfolding issues with the CX cars are discussed at the MSCC committee meetings. If you feel strongly that MSCC could do more, then contact the Secretary and maybe go to the next meeting and provide some personal feedback?
Posted By: Capt Aero

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/08/22 10:20 AM

I've had my new Plus Four, delayed like everyone else, a week now. We went straight off for a weeks tour of Scotland to add miles and experience the car. All went well and I'm pleased with the car, my only criticism is the brakes, unfortunately the factory mods have not improved the long, soft pedal. Compared to my 1 series BMW the brake pedal feel and confidence are a real shortfall in the Mog. The car has the superb auto gearbox and returned close to 50mpg average over 1200 touring miles (accurately calculated from fill ups). When stopped in traffic the brake pedal needs quite a heavy push to remain stationary. My wife was delighted with comfortable seats and no leaks!
It may be the only CX in Mazda Racing Orange? I hope everyone gets their cars sorted soon.
Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/08/22 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by DaveW
It's a fine line Adrian. MSCC has built up a good relationship with MMC over the past few years. And lets face it, MSCC can only release information it has been given by MMC, which has also been authorised for release.
Miscellany isn't there to speculate or throw accusations around. It's a club magazine run by enthusiasts, most of whom are unpaid, but give their time willingly. I have no doubt that the unfolding issues with the CX cars are discussed at the MSCC committee meetings. If you feel strongly that MSCC could do more, then contact the Secretary and maybe go to the next meeting and provide some personal feedback?

I have no strong feelings and I have been very happy to respond to MSCC’s questionnaires on the matter and really appreciated their feedback. I just thought it was a glaring omission on such a serious and current issue and it left me with the impression it’s not something anyone wants to talk about
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/08/22 05:46 PM

So the braking has not been improved. Two months without driving for nothing.
Posted By: DalesPlusFour

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/08/22 06:10 PM

What do you mean, “for nothing?”

Wasn’t it fairly evident it was a safety recall? The issue, as I understand it, was never break “feel”. And I’ve actually not heard anyone complaining about the breaking performance, just that the movement is long in the pedal. Surely you, like me, test drove the car before purchasing and noted the difference in the breaks and decided you either liked it or could live with it, and went ahead with the purchase. In honesty I wouldn’t mind if they had more ‘bite’ but I also know what I’m purchasing and can accommodate.

But the recall, again this is just to my understanding, was not to do with the feel of the breaks and I’m not sure how changing the break master cylinder would have changed that. But I’m not an engineer, so my knowledge here is limited. Happy to be corrected.
Posted By: MikeFromPembroke

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/08/22 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Adrian777
Originally Posted by DaveW
It's a fine line Adrian. MSCC has built up a good relationship with MMC over the past few years. And lets face it, MSCC can only release information it has been given by MMC, which has also been authorised for release.
Miscellany isn't there to speculate or throw accusations around. It's a club magazine run by enthusiasts, most of whom are unpaid, but give their time willingly. I have no doubt that the unfolding issues with the CX cars are discussed at the MSCC committee meetings. If you feel strongly that MSCC could do more, then contact the Secretary and maybe go to the next meeting and provide some personal feedback?

I have no strong feelings and I have been very happy to respond to MSCC’s questionnaires on the matter and really appreciated their feedback. I just thought it was a glaring omission on such a serious and current issue and it left me with the impression it’s not something anyone wants to talk about


+1
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/08/22 06:22 PM

Well for nothing was exagerate maybe. I never had the chance to test one of my four morgan before . Our dealer is to small to have test cars . I dont know exactly what really happened with the two cars losing all braking . What i said is the braking was very poor since the beginning ,that all . And i expected that if they have to revise the master cylinder they would also check the feeling of the pedal. Since almost two years i drive always with a very long distance between me and the car in front of me . I case of emergency ( a child, a cat ) i am never sure i would be able to stop . And i dont drive fast. The braking of my first 4/4 (with drums at the rear) was better , and the arp4 was a lot better (with four disks).
Posted By: NickB54

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/08/22 08:28 PM

I too had long brake pedal travel and whilst my car was back at the factory for a number of faults to be rectified they adjusted the linkage to remove the excessive travel.. whilst this is nothing to do with the recall there appears to be a solution to this issue.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 02/08/22 06:48 AM

I am glad to ear that.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 02/08/22 06:50 AM

I am glad to ear that. Normally my dealer should call me this week.
I hope he will do the same.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 02/08/22 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Capt Aero
I've had my new Plus Four, delayed like everyone else, a week now. We went straight off for a weeks tour of Scotland to add miles and experience the car. All went well and I'm pleased with the car, my only criticism is the brakes, unfortunately the factory mods have not improved the long, soft pedal. Compared to my 1 series BMW the brake pedal feel and confidence are a real shortfall in the Mog. The car has the superb auto gearbox and returned close to 50mpg average over 1200 touring miles (accurately calculated from fill ups). When stopped in traffic the brake pedal needs quite a heavy push to remain stationary. My wife was delighted with comfortable seats and no leaks!
It may be the only CX in Mazda Racing Orange? I hope everyone gets their cars sorted soon.


Indeed one has to press fairly hard on the brakes to prevent the car moving forward when stationary in drive. The gearbox does not work in the same as as a duel clutch system. When stationary, I always select neutral.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 02/08/22 10:17 AM

The factory has send today a new radiator and the kit for my brakes . The fix will be done next week , also the radiator in the same time because they have to remove one wing for the brakes.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 02/08/22 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by thierry242
The factory has send today a new radiator and the kit for my brakes . The fix will be done next week , also the radiator in the same time because they have to remove one wing for the brakes.

Good news, hope you are back on the road soon
Posted By: Liam1961

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 02/08/22 05:47 PM

Hi fellow Morganeers. I'm new to the TM forum, but I have been following the various threads since I received my Plus Four in June last year.
I've nothing useful to add regarding the disappointments concerning the brake problem, but I see there are many comments about radiator leakages. I have had no problem so far in the cooling department, but the car has not done many miles. My car was built in Feb 21, so I am wondering if my car is going to require a radiator change? How do I know?
If anyone can give me some idea then I can follow it up when the time comes for the brake fix. My situation is a bit messed up as the car is in the Netherlands! Up to now Louwman exclusive in Utrecht have given me excellent service (even replacing the entire windscreen wiper assembly due to problems with them) so I'm sure they will do everything required - I would just like to know what to expect. I suspect it will still be many weeks before my car is let loose again!!
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 02/08/22 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Liam1961
Hi fellow Morganeers. I'm new to the TM forum, but I have been following the various threads since I received my Plus Four in June last year.
I've nothing useful to add regarding the disappointments concerning the brake problem, but I see there are many comments about radiator leakages. I have had no problem so far in the cooling department, but the car has not done many miles. My car was built in Feb 21, so I am wondering if my car is going to require a radiator change? How do I know?
If anyone can give me some idea then I can follow it up when the time comes for the brake fix. My situation is a bit messed up as the car is in the Netherlands! Up to now Louwman exclusive in Utrecht have given me excellent service (even replacing the entire windscreen wiper assembly due to problems with them) so I'm sure they will do everything required - I would just like to know what to expect. I suspect it will still be many weeks before my car is let loose again!!

It’s my understanding that the radiator mods, (Swirl pot, etc) are only being done to vehicles that have previously suffered a radiator leak.
As far as I know, and delighted to be corrected…if you don’t have a leak before the warranty expires, then you are on your own! So best to drive it as much as possible before then!
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 02/08/22 06:29 PM

Next week the fourth radiator will be placed.
I only have few drops leaking. The expansion vase cap was already changed in february.
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 02/08/22 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by Deejay
Originally Posted by Liam1961
Hi fellow Morganeers. I'm new to the TM forum, but I have been following the various threads since I received my Plus Four in June last year.
I've nothing useful to add regarding the disappointments concerning the brake problem, but I see there are many comments about radiator leakages. I have had no problem so far in the cooling department, but the car has not done many miles. My car was built in Feb 21, so I am wondering if my car is going to require a radiator change? How do I know?
If anyone can give me some idea then I can follow it up when the time comes for the brake fix. My situation is a bit messed up as the car is in the Netherlands! Up to now Louwman exclusive in Utrecht have given me excellent service (even replacing the entire windscreen wiper assembly due to problems with them) so I'm sure they will do everything required - I would just like to know what to expect. I suspect it will still be many weeks before my car is let loose again!!

It’s my understanding that the radiator mods, (Swirl pot, etc) are only being done to vehicles that have previously suffered a radiator leak.
As far as I know, and delighted to be corrected…if you don’t have a leak before the warranty expires, then you are on your own! So best to drive it as much as possible before then!


My Plus Four has had no radiator problems and I’ve been told that the swirl pot is going to be incorporated when mine is fixed next week.
Posted By: RichP6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 02/08/22 09:57 PM

I haven’t had an issue either with my PlusSix radiator but was also informed the mods would be done at the same time as the break master cylinder.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 03/08/22 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by thierry242
Next week the fourth radiator will be placed.
I only have few drops leaking. The expansion vase cap was already changed in february.

Thierry242, Lets hope that's the end of the issues......
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 03/08/22 06:22 AM

That’s great news if everyone’s cooling system is going to be uprated. However, I thought that those with rad problems were being taken to the factory but those without, were being taken to dealers.
So it leaves me wondering why?

Edit: Looking back through these postings, I found #747151 posted by John V6 which displayed an email from Krazy Horse.

“To clarify the situation, car’s that have not previously had a radiator issue will be rectified at KrazyHorse, cars that have had a radiator replaced previously will be rectified at Morgan. Morgan have arranged for a logistics company to collect all of the latter car’s directly and Krazyhorse will collect all of the others. It will be useful for us and Morgan if anyone has access issues for collection, to let us know so we can, between us and Morgan find the best way to collect the car’s. “

This implies to me that if your rad hasn’t yet leaked, you only get a swirl pot added by your dealer, and I guess this should ensure that it doesn’t leak in the future!
However, why do those who have already had a replacement rad need to go back to the factory for yet another one?
Am I wrong in my interpretation or is the email in error? If it said: those who have currently registered a leak that is not yet fixed, will go back to the factory: that would make more sense.
Posted By: MikeFromPembroke

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 03/08/22 08:35 AM

My plus 6 is due for collection by the dealer today, and apparently it’s a wing off job to fit the swirl pot? Or so I was told.
Not sure if they have the parts yet, apparently waiting delivery.
Posted By: donaldosaurus

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/08/22 01:58 PM

My car on a transporter on way back from MMC. They have done their best in a challenging situation and I remain loyal on my fourth Morgan.
Posted By: aerotaff

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/08/22 03:13 PM

Mike I think their picking up two yours and one from Tenby.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/08/22 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by donaldosaurus
My car on a transporter on way back from MMC. They have done their best in a challenging situation and I remain loyal on my fourth Morgan.

Good news - they are getting there and plenty summer left yet thumbs
Posted By: MikeFromPembroke

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/08/22 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by aerotaff
Mike I think their picking up two yours and one from Tenby.

Hi Emyr, mine went back t9 the dealers, hopefully it will come back this time……
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/08/22 08:20 PM

I agree with donaldsaurus (what is a donaldsaurus anyway - was it on Jurassic Park?) - Im’ fairly sanguine about the above situation and tend to accept that the problems experienced are part of the cost of doing business with one of the last remaining small car manufacturers who’s survival is a miracle and have the R&D budget of an A4 wing mirror.

I understand the frustration of owners but the alternative is to buy an MX5 and save £70k - I’ll stick with the Plus 6!

Must add - was mentally prepared for a list of problems until sorted under warranty, but not had any, except a sticky brake light which took a few seconds to resolve.

My attitude may allow MMC to take the p*** however so they need to be kept on their toes by other less casual owners.

Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/08/22 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Clipper
I agree with donaldsaurus (what is a donaldsaurus anyway - was it on Jurassic Park?) - Im’ fairly sanguine about the above situation and tend to accept that the problems experienced are part of the cost of doing business with one of the last remaining small car manufacturers who’s survival is a miracle and have the R&D budget of an A4 wing mirror.

I understand the frustration of owners but the alternative is to buy an MX5 and save £70k - I’ll stick with the Plus 6.

Must add - was mentally prepared for a list of problems until sorted under warranty, but not had any, except a sticky brake light which took a few seconds to resolve.

My attitude may give MMC to take the p*** however so they need to be kept on their toes by other less casual owners.


Morgan are extremely fortunate to have customers like you and (the) Domaldsaurus 😀
Personally I wish I had chosen differently and there are many more options available.
That said, my car has now been collected by Acumen and I am told will make its way to the factory. Apparently the yard at Acumen has a lot of Morgans parked in it. Hopefully my car will be fixed and returned while there is still some summer remaining and I might find some love for it again.

As I say, Morgan are fortunate to have such a loyal and dedicated customer and fan base. I do however think they need to look again at the (IMHO) derisory offer of a 3 month warranty extension. Just because their customer base is loyal does not mean they shouldn’t be treated fairly. In fact quite the opposite.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 06/08/22 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Clipper
I agree with donaldsaurus (what is a donaldsaurus anyway - was it on Jurassic Park?) - Im’ fairly sanguine about the above situation and tend to accept that the problems experienced are part of the cost of doing business with one of the last remaining small car manufacturers who’s survival is a miracle and have the R&D budget of an A4 wing mirror.

I understand the frustration of owners but the alternative is to buy an MX5 and save £70k - I’ll stick with the Plus 6!

Must add - was mentally prepared for a list of problems until sorted under warranty, but not had any, except a sticky brake light which took a few seconds to resolve.

My attitude may allow MMC to take the p*** however so they need to be kept on their toes by other less casual owners.



That is a very honorable point of view. I can understand it. It puts the real circumstances, including the financial ones, of a small series manufacturer in perspective. At the same time, however, this view needs a lot of patience, love and empathy for the product and its manufacturer. But this is exactly what cannot be expected from all newly acquired customers who are not familiar with the brand and its history. I must say that I understand both points of view. After all, quite a few posts here show that the defect rectification is progressing quite extensively resp. is starting with commitment.
Posted By: Donny T

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/08/22 12:25 PM

I fully agree but the point is MMC are trying to move into a younger modern customer base who will not stand for basic problems like radiators and master cylinders taking their cars off the road for months.It hardly high tech stuff.
The loyal customer base is getting older and fewer. They need to step up if they want to attract a younger customer base.
All my friends with big,fast expensive cars just laugh.
“ Hows the Morgan? Can you drive it yet ? How much was it again? And only 18 months m”
Don’t think they will be rushing out any time soon.

Donny T
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/08/22 01:11 PM


[/quote]
Morgan are extremely fortunate to have customers like you and (the) Domaldsaurus 😀
Personally I wish I had chosen differently and there are many more options available.
That said, my car has now been collected by Acumen and I am told will make its way to the factory. Apparently the yard at Acumen has a lot of Morgans parked in it. Hopefully my car will be fixed and returned while there is still some summer remaining and I might find some love for it again.

As I say, Morgan are fortunate to have such a loyal and dedicated customer and fan base. I do however think they need to look again at the (IMHO) derisory offer of a 3 month warranty extension. Just because their customer base is loyal does not mean they shouldn’t be treated fairly. In fact quite the opposite.[/quote]
A friend of mine was expecting collection to the factory last Tuesday and no one turned up. He was then booked for Thursday with the same result. Maybe the yard is full to overflowing but thank goodness we have dry weather!
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/08/22 09:31 AM

Well my Plus Four is with my dealer and is being fixed smile Many thanks to Henry Williams for driving up to the factory to get the parts. I wonder how long I would have had to wait if he had not done so. Morgan are not covering themselves in glory these days, but my dealership is brilliant.
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/08/22 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Derek596
Well my Plus Four is with my dealer and is being fixed smile Many thanks to Henry Williams for driving up to the factory to get the parts. I wonder how long I would have had to wait if he had not done so. Morgan are not covering themselves in glory these days, but my dealership is brilliant.

He certainly lives up to his Federation of Small BusinessYoung Entrepreneur of the Year award back in 2014. A thoroughly good guy whose business deserves full support and ongoing success.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/08/22 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Derek596
Well my Plus Four is with my dealer and is being fixed smile Many thanks to Henry Williams for driving up to the factory to get the parts. I wonder how long I would have had to wait if he had not done so. Morgan are not covering themselves in glory these days, but my dealership is brilliant.


Henry really gets the concept that the "Customer is King" and will go the extra mile if it is possible.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/08/22 11:31 AM

My car also with my dealer , with a bit of luck the car will be ready end of the week.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/08/22 11:36 AM

Great to hear that after two very long months, there's a good few getting sorted.

FIngers crossed you'll all be able to start enjoying the summer.
Posted By: 1560

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/08/22 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by thierry242
My car also with my dealer , with a bit of luck the car will be ready end of the week.

You won’t recognise it when you’ll hit that middle pedal
Damn, your brakes were awfull
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/08/22 03:27 PM

Hello Steven , is your car done ?
Posted By: 1560

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/08/22 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by thierry242
Hello Steven , is your car done ?

no no, I get married on the 8th of October, should be done by then since it is my wedding car

in between today and that day I have absolutely no time to miss driving it, so no problemo
2 big cycling holidays, wedding-TODO-list
and we rented an appartment in IT for at least 4 years: some admin to do and above all that: trying to keep the wifes tsnunami of decoration-ideas/orders under controle
(not really succesfull at that point) hide
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/08/22 12:23 PM

Just collected my Plus Four from Williams Morgan. Great service from them; thank you Henry + team. My brakes feel slightly better than before and now acceptable, but 'fierce' is not a word I would use. Apparently one cannot see the 'swirl pot', but the brake master cylinder looks quite different. Unfortunately, Talk Morgan will not allow a photo download; wants a file size less than 1KB.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/08/22 12:44 PM

Great news - Henry and his team are really good at customer service thumbs a great dealership.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/08/22 05:31 PM

Hawki of this parish has had his fixed at the factory (5th rad) & is eagerly awaiting it's return.
Posted By: NickB54

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/08/22 07:45 AM

It would be interesting to know how many vehicles have been rectified and how many remain, a moving target but it would give those of us who are still awaiting any news of when we might get or cars collected and repaired some light at the end of the tunnel.

Yet again the lack of information emanating on this topic from MMC is deafening in its silence. It is now over 2 months since I was advised not to use my car, 3 months extension to the warranty would appear to be a tad less than generous.
Posted By: Charles75

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/08/22 08:31 AM

Yes its true, 3 Month extension warranty its a joke. My dealer in Germay told me the parts will be arrived in 2 Weeks, but not how many Parts. I think the seasion is over when its fixed.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/08/22 03:31 PM

Morgan is not alone with a brake recall...

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40818670/ferrari-recall-brake-failure/

I'll bet there are smiles of schadenfreude at Malvern... (the word means getting vicarious pleasure from the problems or failure of others)
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/08/22 03:39 PM

I still haven’t heard a dickie bird 😩
Mine is due to fixed at the factory. I had the couple of emails from the factory/dealer that I think most have received. Spoke to my dealer last Wednesday and he promised to chase for an update and the silence since then has been a little deafening.
In theory this coming Friday is the end of the 3 week period stated for Acumen to contact me to arrange collection. Thus I’m trying to be a good boy and keep my head down til Friday…..before I start getting agitated and express my dissatisfaction to dealer/MMC….. I retired last October and had multiple plans for this summer to go to various places/take out friends in the Mog and I am not full of joy at how these ideas have ended up being cancelled or ended up on the scrap heap…
We shall see…
Fingers crossed that I hear summat by Friday
HB
Posted By: Jens

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/08/22 03:47 PM

Peter J:
Due to the current higher positioning of the Morgan brand, Ferrari is now almost a competitor. If you can spend €100,000 (without extras) for a leisure car called Morgan Plus Six, the €183,000 for a Ferrari California convertible probably won't hurt either.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/08/22 04:36 PM

Trouble is, the cheapest Ferrari is now the Roma at about £250K with 'essential' extras
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/08/22 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by HeadlessBlue
I still haven’t heard a dickie bird 😩
Mine is due to fixed at the factory. I had the couple of emails from the factory/dealer that I think most have received. Spoke to my dealer last Wednesday and he promised to chase for an update and the silence since then has been a little deafening.
In theory this coming Friday is the end of the 3 week period stated for Acumen to contact me to arrange collection. Thus I’m trying to be a good boy and keep my head down til Friday…..before I start getting agitated and express my dissatisfaction to dealer/MMC….. I retired last October and had multiple plans for this summer to go to various places/take out friends in the Mog and I am not full of joy at how these ideas have ended up being cancelled or ended up on the scrap heap…
We shall see…
Fingers crossed that I hear summat by Friday
HB

Trust you get this sorted out so you can enjoy the car and retirement.
Posted By: MikeFromPembroke

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/08/22 11:25 AM

Just had the Plus six returned from the dealers. Looking forward to reacquainting myself, its been a long wait (again).
Some pictures of the illusive replacement cylinder, the swirl pot has been fitted to the near side out of view under the wing. Hope the remainder of the affected cars are sorted soon and it proves to be a permeant fix for the radiator issue.
I have yet to try the breaks in anger, but I found them quite acceptable from new.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Posted By: Jens

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/08/22 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Derek596
Trouble is, the cheapest Ferrari is now the Roma at about £250K with 'essential' extras


Sorry, I stumbled upon outdated information. With the price difference, Ferrari is no longer a near competitor.
Posted By: Mr-Blueskies

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/08/22 12:49 PM

Pleased to report my Plus Four (MY22 spec) has now had the fix applied (replaced Master cylinder and "swirl pot" installed) and is at last back on the road after 10 week hiatus. Many thanks to dealer BHM for their tenacity in working through all the problems in understanding the issues, vehicle recovery, actually getting promised fix kits etc.
Hopefully parts availability will be improving now so that we can all get back to enjoying our cars.
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/08/22 01:26 PM

Just had a call from Acumen
They are collecting Belle tomorrow afternoon!!!!!
Phew!!!!
Can’t wait to get her back….out of curiosity does anyone have an idea of how long on average it’s currently taking from collection before the car is likely to be returned from the factory post repair? Just so I can manage my excitement levels realistically!!! Thanks
HB
Posted By: RichardV6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/08/22 03:03 PM

Gary (Hawki on here) had his car picked up on 26th July. I understand work including rad fix has been completed by MMC and it was promised back this week. The logistics of collection and delivery seem to take the time with cars being held in Coventry until forwarding on to Malvern.
Posted By: Alan Patterson

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/08/22 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mr-Blueskies
Pleased to report my Plus Four (MY22 spec) has now had the fix applied (replaced Master cylinder and "swirl pot" installed) and is at last back on the road after 10 week hiatus. Many thanks to dealer BHM for their tenacity in working through all the problems in understanding the issues, vehicle recovery, actually getting promised fix kits etc.
Hopefully parts availability will be improving now so that we can all get back to enjoying our cars.

Quite a few others in BHM today when I picked my Plus 4 up from service and MOT.
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/08/22 03:18 PM

He is still waiting Richard but we might get it Sat from KH on the way back from Silverstone
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/08/22 03:55 PM

Thanks chaps (inc Oz).
Looks I’d better be prepared for a further 3 weeks wait then to be on the safe side 🤮😩
Still, on the positive side, at least the end may be in sight now…
HB
Posted By: John V6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/08/22 04:47 PM

Hawki gets it back Monday quote just as the weather breaks. Sums it up really.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/08/22 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by HeadlessBlue
Thanks chaps (inc Oz).
Looks I’d better be prepared for a further 3 weeks wait then to be on the safe side 🤮😩
Still, on the positive side, at least the end may be in sight now…
HB

Good luck HB - I hope they extract the digit for you so the fun can recommence as your car has special significance for you and your good lady thumbs
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/08/22 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by HeadlessBlue
Thanks chaps (inc Oz).
Looks I’d better be prepared for a further 3 weeks wait then to be on the safe side 🤮😩
Still, on the positive side, at least the end may be in sight now…
HB


I really hope so.
You may well get your car back before I see Tarka again.
It has been a long, effectively Mogless, summer.
Tarka went sick at the end of March.....Williams tried but in the end gave up and now she is at Morgan.



Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/08/22 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by MikeFromPembroke
Just had the Plus six returned from the dealers. Looking forward to reacquainting myself, its been a long wait (again).
Some pictures of the illusive replacement cylinder, the swirl pot has been fitted to the near side out of view under the wing. Hope the remainder of the affected cars are sorted soon and it proves to be a permeant fix for the radiator issue.
I have yet to try the breaks in anger, but I found them quite acceptable from new.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Glad that onother CX owner is back on the road, interesting photos - goodness me those banjo connectors on the hydraulic lines are massive !
Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/08/22 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by HeadlessBlue
Just had a call from Acumen
They are collecting Belle tomorrow afternoon!!!!!
Phew!!!!
Can’t wait to get her back….out of curiosity does anyone have an idea of how long on average it’s currently taking from collection before the car is likely to be returned from the factory post repair? Just so I can manage my excitement levels realistically!!! Thanks
HB

Mine was collected last Friday and was taken to Acumen’s yard at Bradford. On Monday it was moved to their yard at Coventry and on Tuesday taken to the factory. According to my tracker it hasn’t moved since so I am guessing they haven’t started working on it yet.
Posted By: bella1

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 11/08/22 09:05 PM

Just picked up my plus6 from the boys at Krazy horse ,new master cylinder ,swirl pot ,plus new o/s modual,Different car digital speedo and no brake pedal travel ,let’s hope we can have more confidence in our cars and Morgan Motor Company
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by Adrian777
Originally Posted by HeadlessBlue
Just had a call from Acumen
They are collecting Belle tomorrow afternoon!!!!!
Phew!!!!
Can’t wait to get her back….out of curiosity does anyone have an idea of how long on average it’s currently taking from collection before the car is likely to be returned from the factory post repair? Just so I can manage my excitement levels realistically!!! Thanks
HB

Mine was collected last Friday and was taken to Acumen’s yard at Bradford. On Monday it was moved to their yard at Coventry and on Tuesday taken to the factory. According to my tracker it hasn’t moved since so I am guessing they haven’t started working on it yet.


Mine arrived at the factory Wednesday lunchtime and according to my tracker it hasn’t moved since either. Was told it could be a week or so. I was so looking forward to using it this Summer in the heat with the hood up and aircon on. I am so disappointed with the whole experience tbh but hey never mind on the bright side we do have the warranty extended by the length of time they have been off the ride which will be 3 months at this rate.
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 07:29 AM

Thanks Rich, Peter et al
Rich- glad you made it to Norfolk with all your family
Peter- really hope Tarka is sorted soon once and for all
Al- who are you?
Best wishes
HB
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 07:31 AM

A lot of vehicle movements at the factory today - hopefully a number of repaired cars starting their journey back to owners.
Posted By: 1560

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Graham, G4FUJ
A lot of vehicle movements at the factory today - hopefully a number of repaired cars starting their journey back to owners.


we heard a rumor:
is it true the staff has to pray each morning for a very very very very very very very very very very very very long hot indian summer?
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by 1560
Originally Posted by Graham, G4FUJ
A lot of vehicle movements at the factory today - hopefully a number of repaired cars starting their journey back to owners.


we heard a rumor:
is it true the staff has to pray each morning for a very very very very very very very very very very very very long hot indian summer?


Seems to be working well....
Posted By: AKD

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 10:26 AM

Just had an update from my dealer who says it is taking 2 mechanics 1.5 days per CX Model to rectify.
So I guess the 3 month warranty extension may not ultimately be signed with how long this is going to take to be brought to a conclusion.
Posted By: AKD

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 10:29 AM

“Aligned” not “signed”
Posted By: aerotaff

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 11:14 AM

Blimey three days labour on one car that cant be the case surely...
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by aerotaff
Blimey three days labour on one car that cant be the case surely...

Wow, expensive....
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 11:44 AM

My car is done at 15h00. Tomorrow i will take her back home.
Posted By: AKD

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 01:33 PM

Seems incredible but the dealer described the required works as “beyond their worst imagination”. Maybe gets quicker with experience of what’s required. Anyway - time will tell I guess……..
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by AKD
Just had an update from my dealer who says it is taking 2 mechanics 1.5 days per CX Model to rectify.
So I guess the 3 month warranty extension may not ultimately be signed with how long this is going to take to be brought to a conclusion.


Mine took 1 man about a day and I had a little TLC done at the same time. That said, one stud on the master cylinder would not undo (too much loctite applied from new by the factory) so it had to be drilled out. Added 40 mins to the time.
Posted By: aerotaff

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 01:49 PM

When Morgan read this and they do I think the dealer in question might be having a little phone call. Fourspringsbrakehotrad or was that Audi.......
Posted By: AKD

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 01:53 PM

Hopefully Morgan will spend more time getting their act together and not waste it calling dealers who might have gone off message. I think it was Audi - but in any language this is a “cluster…..”
Posted By: aerotaff

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 02:15 PM

AKD you are the customer Morgan want I hope they treat you well, enjoy when you get it back...
Posted By: donaldosaurus

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 02:16 PM

Well my patience has paid off. I have my car back and I love it. Had it a week and side screens off wonderful motoring. It’s been an unwanted challenge for the factory but I remain loyal. My fourth and best Morgan. Although the previous three were dealer spec and this one is bespoke. Budget didn’t add too many extras. Sports exhaust in black rather good!
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 02:39 PM

finally my car is not ready ,they made a confusion with another customer .
Posted By: p8mog

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 02:48 PM

I picked up my Plus Four this morning and it’s great to have it back, I have to say many thanks to John, Mark and Rob in the workshop at the factory who are working there socks off to get the cars out.
Hope you all get your cars back soon before the Sun goes.😀
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 03:06 PM

Some good stories to read here today - enjoy your miles boys and girls thumbs

I hope you other owners don't have to wait much longer.
Posted By: colinP

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 12/08/22 03:22 PM

Likewise I have my Plus Four back. Similarly, to drive, I feel it is by far the best Morgan I have owned. My fourth Morgan but sadly feel it will be my last .Since collecting the car in April there remains unresolved niggles and instead of just being ignored you are now made in addition to feel awkward asking for warranty issues to be addressed as you will be directly responsible then for other owners having to wait longer for their brake fix.

Speaking with friends in our "Mog" this week, understandably they cannot understand why some people have their cars back enjoying the sunshine when they have heard nothing. Communication very disappointing.
Posted By: 4/4sportwupper

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/08/22 02:37 PM

Has anyone pic s of the new mastercylinder of the plus four?
still waiting for it-a long time!
i m a little bit disappointed -still problems with the cooling-now the brakes-what will happen tomorrow?
a great car -but with a lot of trouble……
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/08/22 02:40 PM

Plus Six from a few pages above

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: 4/4sportwupper

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 14/08/22 02:46 PM

plus four and plus six are the same????
Posted By: Grump

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/08/22 08:54 AM

anyone had a new radiator? is it steel or aluminium?
Posted By: Knoxxy

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/08/22 09:48 AM

My Six had a "swirl pot" added while the brakes were done, apparently as a precaution.
Not sure what cars are getting a new rad.
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 15/08/22 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Grump
anyone had a new radiator? is it steel or aluminium?

Don’t know but never heard of a steel rad on a car before. Weight, corrosion, poorer thermal conductivity and even if stainless, would be expensive to manufacture.
Posted By: RichardV6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/08/22 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Knoxxy
My Six had a "swirl pot" added while the brakes were done, apparently as a precaution.
Not sure what cars are getting a new rad.

If I understood correctly Dan at KH intimated that CX cars that hadn't had any rad issues would have them left in. Not sure if they qualified for swirl pot though which MMC seem to be backing as the "final fix".
Posted By: Jonathan G

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/08/22 12:42 PM

Mine hasn’t had any radiator problems but MMC have told me it’s getting a swirl pot fitted. Having said that it’s been there 7 days now and the tracker tells me it hasn’t been moved 1cm since they took delivery. I have had 4 Morgan’s now in the past 6 years. Three of them new. I’m starting to wonder why I bothered.
Posted By: JJR

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/08/22 03:32 PM

I took delivery of my Plus Four auto on September 1st 2021 and have not had any radiator problems so far. I am told that when it goes in for the brake recall it will also have a swirl pot fitted. Apparently this is the case for all cars.
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 16/08/22 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by JJR
I took delivery of my Plus Four auto on September 1st 2021 and have not had any radiator problems so far. I am told that when it goes in for the brake recall it will also have a swirl pot fitted. Apparently this is the case for all cars.


Snap. I too took delivery of a Plus Four auto on 1st Sep 2021 and have had no brake or rad problems. Now had the recall done, so fingers crossed.
Posted By: JJR

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 17/08/22 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Derek596
Originally Posted by JJR
I took delivery of my Plus Four auto on September 1st 2021 and have not had any radiator problems so far. I am told that when it goes in for the brake recall it will also have a swirl pot fitted. Apparently this is the case for all cars.


Snap. I too took delivery of a Plus Four auto on 1st Sep 2021 and have had no brake or rad problems. Now had the recall done, so fingers crossed.

Hi Derek,
Happy to hear you have had your brakes done. Have you noticed any difference?
Best regards,
John
Posted By: Derek596

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 18/08/22 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by JJR
Originally Posted by Derek596
Originally Posted by JJR
I took delivery of my Plus Four auto on September 1st 2021 and have not had any radiator problems so far. I am told that when it goes in for the brake recall it will also have a swirl pot fitted. Apparently this is the case for all cars.


Snap. I too took delivery of a Plus Four auto on 1st Sep 2021 and have had no brake or rad problems. Now had the recall done, so fingers crossed.

Hi Derek,
Happy to hear you have had your brakes done. Have you noticed any difference?
Best regards,
John

I 'think' they are slightly better but far from wonderful. I drove a Ferrari Roma today and nearly went through the windscreen when I applied the Plus Four amount of brake pressure, But given that I hardly drive fast, the Morgan brakes are adequate,
Posted By: AKD

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 19/08/22 08:12 AM

Not sure if anyone else has been advised - my dealer says that there is also some clutch work to be done on Plus Four manual version. First I had heard about this. Replacement of “clutch supply line” - a rough translation from German.
Aside from that they confirm new brake master cylinder, changes to some brake lines (I guess due to new MC configuration), swirl pot and attendant coolant pipe modifications are all part of the fix package.
Clutch was a new one to me.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 19/08/22 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by AKD
Not sure if anyone else has been advised - my dealer says that there is also some clutch work to be done on Plus Four manual version. First I had heard about this. Replacement of “clutch supply line” - a rough translation from German.
Aside from that they confirm new brake master cylinder, changes to some brake lines (I guess due to new MC configuration), swirl pot and attendant coolant pipe modifications are all part of the fix package.
Clutch was a new one to me.


Interesting. Wonder if there is any more news on this new development.....?
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 19/08/22 09:42 AM

Probably a re-route to get around other changes being made?
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/08/22 04:34 PM

Plus six collected yesterday- interesting seeing the tracker in action. It sent me a warning alert then I could see it on its journey via the app to the dealer.

Presume if it was nicked, you would call the police then saddle up (ideally with Jason Statham )track it to the villains lair.

Good piece of kit.
Posted By: Gordon D

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/08/22 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Clipper
Plus six collected yesterday- interesting seeing the tracker in action. It sent me a warning alert then I could see it on its journey via the app to the dealer.

Presume if it was nicked, you would call the police then saddle up and track it to the villains lair.

Good piece of kit.


Great news your car is back. thumbs

In my ones case, the company contact me if there's any unusual activity, if you're aware then no problems, if it has been taken without your knowledge then they contact the police and you are unable to track the movements. Daresay to prevent you doing something stupid and confronting the thieves.
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/08/22 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Gordon D
Originally Posted by Clipper
Plus six collected yesterday- interesting seeing the tracker in action. It sent me a warning alert then I could see it on its journey via the app to the dealer.

Presume if it was nicked, you would call the police then saddle up and track it to the villains lair.

Good piece of kit.


Great news your car is back. thumbs

In my ones case, the company contact me if there's any unusual activity, if you're aware then no problems, if it has been taken without your knowledge then they contact the police and you are unable to track the movements. Daresay to prevent you doing something stupid and confronting the thieves.

Can they disable it (the car) remotely ?
Posted By: Clipper

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/08/22 09:27 PM

Not sure but don’t think so - having another electronic device deciding if the car can start or not might not be a great idea.
Posted By: Gordon D

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/08/22 09:56 PM

Mine can't be disabled remotely as far as I know Jon. I stuck with the option that was fitted to the car when I bought it. There was an upgrade offered which I didn't accept.
It's a bit like insurance, you pay it in the hope you never need it. Mobile phone signal is poor here and I often have to respond to location and last use emails from the tracker company. Still, it lets you know they are constantly monitoring the cars movements.
Posted By: Adrian777

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/08/22 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Clipper
Plus six collected yesterday- interesting seeing the tracker in action. It sent me a warning alert then I could see it on its journey via the app to the dealer.

Presume if it was nicked, you would call the police then saddle up (ideally with Jason Statham )track it to the villains lair.

Good piece of kit.

My Plus Four was collected two weeks ago last Friday. Interesting to see it taken to Acumen’s yard at Bradford then on the Monday to Coventry and then to the factory. Even see where in the factory it was including as it was moved from one building to another.
Presumably the work on the car has been completed as it was then collected and taken back to Coventry on Wednesday, where sadly it still resides. No phone call to arrange delivery. Nothing. If it wasn’t for the tracker I wouldn’t know anything.
You would think they would be keen to get the cars back to their owners ASAP to mitigate some of the damage and so we can at least start to put this behind us. Obviously not.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 20/08/22 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Adrian777
Originally Posted by Clipper
Plus six collected yesterday- interesting seeing the tracker in action. It sent me a warning alert then I could see it on its journey via the app to the dealer.

Presume if it was nicked, you would call the police then saddle up (ideally with Jason Statham )track it to the villains lair.

Good piece of kit.

My Plus Four was collected two weeks ago last Friday. Interesting to see it taken to Acumen’s yard at Bradford then on the Monday to Coventry and then to the factory. Even see where in the factory it was including as it was moved from one building to another.
Presumably the work on the car has been completed as it was then collected and taken back to Coventry on Wednesday, where sadly it still resides. No phone call to arrange delivery. Nothing. If it wasn’t for the tracker I wouldn’t know anything.
You would think they would be keen to get the cars back to their owners ASAP to mitigate some of the damage and so we can at least start to put this behind us. Obviously not.

Such a shame but at least it's on the way.....
Posted By: Charles75

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/08/22 07:40 AM

Morning,

my Plus 6 will picked up at Monday 29,8, from the Delaer to fixed the Brakesystem and Radiator. Yeah, the waiting has an end.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 24/08/22 12:39 PM

My plus four is back !!
The braking is a little beter , and less travel of the pedal. Here are some pictures

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

The explanation of the pictures are on tm images

The pictures are from a plus six ,
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 24/08/22 04:50 PM

Plus four swirlpot
[Linked Image]
Posted By: 4/4sportwupper

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/08/22 06:01 PM

Hi Thierry242
my car is 2020 P4 and will get the brakeupdate this week and the the 3.Radiator!!!!.
my dealer in Germany -Flaving- has the opinion it might be a fault of the radiator fixing and therefor a construction problem of the factory.

I m really curious about it-how long will the rad work without fault…….

and :what about the warranty……….what will MCC offer after the 24 months warranty?
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 26/08/22 07:01 PM

We will see.... but the radiator is very heavy. The fixations have already been modified on the previous radiator.
The waranty is 30 months plus 3 months due to the stop driving. But my dealer told me that they will change the radiator even when the waranty is expired as it is a default existing since i have bought the car.
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 27/08/22 09:25 AM

I think we must now give it another two years, and if there are no radiator issues, or braking issues, (or other issues), we might be able to consign this phase to history.
Posted By: JJR

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 29/08/22 07:27 AM

I collected my 22MY Plus Four, Florence, from Krazy Horse on Saturday afternoon and what a joy it is to have her back. Had beautiful weather for the eighty mile drive home and I am pleased to say that the brake pedal feel is much firmer than previously and the travel is shorter too. Early days I know but very encouraging nonetheless. Swirl pot also fitted. Not able to go out yesterday but will be out today so maybe a further report later.
Posted By: NickB54

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 29/08/22 07:33 AM

My car was collected on Friday by my local Dealer Allon White who have been magnificent in arranging for the recall to be done there rather than the supplying dealer.

The question remains are we satisfied with the offer from MMC of an additional 3 months warranty after missing one of the best summers in a while?
Posted By: Liam1961

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 29/08/22 08:16 PM

Nice to see that some of the forum members cars are being sorted and maybe even improved (as far as the brakes are concerned). However, I feel that the 3 months extension currently offered is rather inadequate for people like me who are still waiting for the fixes to be arranged. The car has done approx. 0.1 miles since the dreaded no drive notice (in and out of the garage to get my motorbikes in and out) and due to my holidays in September, I have heard nothing with regards to the parts being avaiable, so the work will not be scheduled until October at best...Rather longer than the pathetic 3 months.
Posted By: Dada

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/08/22 08:44 AM

You're right !
My Augustus holidays where planed for enjoy my Plus Six on wonderful sud France roads ... Result : the beautiful roads where there but not the Morgan ! banghead
Our dear Morgan factory did not provide any repair or part availability planing... I was thinking some weeks but it is now 3 month after the first "stop drive" letter....

If a planing was provided I would had my immatriculation plate send to the insurance and my insurance suspend for 3 months !
If I made a simple calculation I spend 550 € immatriculation taxes and insurance for be prohibited to drive my cabriolet during the 3 summer month... swear

And they just offer 3 month additional warranty...
Come on Morgan board gentlemen be a little bit serious please !

A big thanks for garage Albert that is doing the impossible to ensure that our Morgan were "on the road again" as soon as possible thumbs
Posted By: 1560

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/08/22 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Dada


A big thanks for garage Albert that is doing the impossible to ensure that our Morgan were "on the road again" as soon as possible thumbs


I fully aggree the dealers are the biggest casualties of these issues
I'll be sending my car on a trailer by a friend, to ease the job for our dealer
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/08/22 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by 1560

I fully agree the dealers are the biggest casualties of these issues
I'll be sending my car on a trailer by a friend, to ease the job for our dealer


I have been told that a significant number of people with open orders for CX models have told their dealer "I don't want the car until next spring". This will have a serious impact on dealer cash flow.
Posted By: gaston

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/08/22 08:17 PM


I pick up my car on Thursday. Nicolas and Steven from the Albert garage were on top and do their best to satisfy the customer.
Posted By: 1560

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 30/08/22 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by gaston

I pick up my car on Thursday. Nicolas and Steven from the Albert garage were on top and do their best to satisfy the customer.

I'm getting the feeling I should have told them I got married on the 8th of September (and not October) doh
Posted By: NickB54

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 06:22 AM

I suspect the additional revenue from the recall will help Dealer revenue, they won’t pay for the new cars until they are despatched. More importantly as Dada says what costs have we incurred with insurance and tax never mind additional charges incurred by using alternative transport to fulfil bookings made prior to the stop notice being issued. 3 months additional warranty will see me through to December and historically (the past 23 years of Morgan ownership) that equates to about 50 miles additional cover.

For pity’s sake MMC step up to the plate and look after your customers.
Posted By: Mikemog6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 07:21 AM

I collected my used plus six from the dealer just over two weeks ago, on collection I noted the brake warning light was lit and took the car straight back the dealer who spent two hours trying to fix the fault, but could not do so, I took the car on the proviso that a more local to me dealer would repair the fault, now I am told they cannot fit the car in until the end of October, since collecting I have noted the clock is four hours slow and will not adjust , while on a drive this week while driving briskly the engine management light lit up and went into limp mode for a split second very scary.
The car drives great lots of power and grips great in the dry, on tour 38+ mpg which is surprising in such a powerful car. The brakes work really well when you get used to them, just need a harder push, stopping power is not a problem.
The car should have been well sorted before I collected it, I read that some forum members say it is not the dealers fault well in this case it is and for such an expensive car is just not good enough.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Mikemog6
I collected my used plus six from the dealer just over two weeks ago, on collection I noted the brake warning light was lit and took the car straight back the dealer who spent two hours trying to fix the fault, but could not do so, I took the car on the proviso that a more local to me dealer would repair the fault, now I am told they cannot fit the car in until the end of October, since collecting I have noted the clock is four hours slow and will not adjust , while on a drive this week while driving briskly the engine management light lit up and went into limp mode for a split second very scary.
The car drives great lots of power and grips great in the dry, on tour 38+ mpg which is surprising in such a powerful car. The brakes work really well when you get used to them, just need a harder push, stopping power is not a problem.
The car should have been well sorted before I collected it, I read that some forum members say it is not the dealers fault well in this case it is and for such an expensive car is just not good enough.

Welcome to Morgan ownership Mikemog6
They all do that Sir......
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by NickB54
I suspect the additional revenue from the recall will help Dealer revenue, they won’t pay for the new cars until they are despatched. More importantly as Dada says what costs have we incurred with insurance and tax never mind additional charges incurred by using alternative transport to fulfil bookings made prior to the stop notice being issued. 3 months additional warranty will see me through to December and historically (the past 23 years of Morgan ownership) that equates to about 50 miles additional cover.

For pity’s sake MMC step up to the plate and look after your customers.

I very much suspect the shareholders are watching this performance....
Posted By: Mikemog6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 09:43 AM


Welcome to Morgan ownership Mikemog6
They all do that Sir......[/quote]

Well if they do it is not good enough, MCC got away with it in the past because Mog owners just accepted it. 2022 I expect a fault free car, my 7 year old 50000 mile Kia runabout as never been back to the garage with a fault
If MCC want to continue to sell cars to younger generations of customers they must up their game or go bust.
Posted By: nick w

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Mikemog6
I collected my used plus six from the dealer just over two weeks ago, on collection I noted the brake warning light was lit and took the car straight back the dealer who spent two hours trying to fix the fault, but could not do so, I took the car on the proviso that a more local to me dealer would repair the fault, now I am told they cannot fit the car in until the end of October, since collecting I have noted the clock is four hours slow and will not adjust , while on a drive this week while driving briskly the engine management light lit up and went into limp mode for a split second very scary.
The car drives great lots of power and grips great in the dry, on tour 38+ mpg which is surprising in such a powerful car. The brakes work really well when you get used to them, just need a harder push, stopping power is not a problem.
The car should have been well sorted before I collected it, I read that some forum members say it is not the dealers fault well in this case it is and for such an expensive car is just not good enough.

That Fiat twin cam was a lovely car.........
smile
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Mikemog6
Well if they do it is not good enough, MCC got away with it in the past because Mog owners just accepted it. 2022 I expect a fault free car, my 7 year old 50000 mile Kia runabout as never been back to the garage with a fault
If MCC want to continue to sell cars to younger generations of customers they must up their game or go bust.


Personally, I would formally 'reject' the car under the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. That should get them to pull their finger out and get it sorted pronto - under the present climate I doubt they'd want to lose the sale.
Posted By: OZ 4/4

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by TBM
Originally Posted by Mikemog6
Well if they do it is not good enough, MCC got away with it in the past because Mog owners just accepted it. 2022 I expect a fault free car, my 7 year old 50000 mile Kia runabout as never been back to the garage with a fault
If MCC want to continue to sell cars to younger generations of customers they must up their game or go bust.


Personally, I would formally 'reject' the car under the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. That should get them to pull their finger out and get it sorted pronto - under the present climate I doubt they'd want to lose the sale.

Sounds reasonable....
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Mikemog6
f MCC want to continue to sell cars to younger generations of customers they must up their game or go bust.


I've seen this sentiment regularly repeated ever since I have been a Morgan owner (22 years) and doubtless it's been said for longer than that. Peter Morgan openly said that he sold cars as a starting point for the owner to improve: the thing about Morgans is that we buy them because we love them, not because they are actually any good smile

It's dead easy to buy a good-looking sports convertible that is cheaper, better built, better equipped, faster, more reliable, handles better, and is more comfortable for long distances and I would always recommend that purchasers look elsewhere if they expect any of these things from a Morgan. That's not what they are about.

i'd agree with Phil. If you can't accept the car as it is, reject it, but I'd also counsel that you look elsewhere if you expect a fault-free car. You simply won't get such a thing from a Morgan.
Posted By: Luddite

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 12:32 PM

I hesitate to reiterate my reason for buying a Morgan as I have done it so many times. I did not jump in blindfold, I had the benefit of circa five years of advice on the web from kind folk who had been there done that. Not only that, but I had spent many a year learning to be as independent as I could be relative to the care and maintenance of my old scrappers, up until the stage where I had worked my way into ownership of a few air cooled Porsches over a decade or so. Having worked through MGB, TR, Lotus and others, I learned just how good automotive engineering could be in the shape of an air cooled 911.... Morgan had always been of interest, not much interest, but interest none the less.

By the time I had spent a few years on the internet with MSCC DG and then eMog, I had been well educated to just about every foible a Morgan might suffer, be that straight out of the MMC`s doors, or some old crock that had lain in a barn with a hopeful soul looking to restore it....Great times indeed.

I felt sorry for the evolution in expectations that seemed evident at a time when delayering and downsizing was in full swing with "forced" early retirees all looking for a project, or to buy the Morgan of their dreams... Those looking for a project were searching for something relatively simple to tinker with, or indeed totally rebuild, which seemed to make even barn finds values soar outside my idea of their real worth. Perhaps al those lump sums added to a possible market surge..?

In truth I did feel rather sorry for those who had been enjoying the benefits of company car ownership up until industry spat them out... The idea that a new Morgan was not perfect out of the box seemed`d beyond the level of understanding for some, and to add insult to injury, to have to pay for repairs to foibles...when the cost of their company car service or repairs mattered not a jot. Yeah Morgan ownership came as quite a shock to some, but then the pure joy of driving a Morgan and all it brings with it is so very different from driving any high end saloon ? With luck the frustrations were overcome for quite a few. Fortunately for me I was never one of them, though I will admit to using occasional foul language when thinking "They could have spent a few more bob on this," however years of reading of those who thought they new better and modifying this or that and ending up chasing their tail as each mod created another issue when resolved created... well you know what I mean... All part of the fun for some, less so for me these days..
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 01:11 PM

I've only been connected into the Morgan way since 2003. It took me five years of research before buying my Roadster, and even then I didn't know half of it.

Even over this period, each model has had "Quirks" which with a bigger budget could have been eliminated.

The enduring quirks are things like minor paintwork issues, steaming up gauges, minor leaks over the header rail, leather blemishes, and so on.
Bonnet fit can vary a lot, and the grille fasteners into the lower front panel can show some serious ovalling.
Obviously there's much more, such as those factory door mirrors, fuse box diagrams which don't reflect reality, mis-drilled holes in the floorboards and odd sized fasteners.

Most Trad buyers take this on the chin. Trads have been around long enough for the good dealers to know the score, and Trads are easy for diy owners to sort out. That's a big attraction.

When things get more complex, things get more difficult. And issues such as Peter's Canbus problems appeared out of the blue. Older Aeros may become more troublesome than Trads simply because of the added complexity.

The CX cars are even more complex, even without the master cylinder affair. The early radiator problems shouldn't have taken this long to resolve.
It's obvious that the old Morgan approach won't work with expectations of the CX market. Only time will tell if this is survivable.
Posted By: MikeFromPembroke

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Mikemog6
I collected my used plus six from the dealer just over two weeks ago, on collection I noted the brake warning light was lit and took the car straight back the dealer who spent two hours trying to fix the fault, but could not do so, I took the car on the proviso that a more local to me dealer would repair the fault, now I am told they cannot fit the car in until the end of October, since collecting I have noted the clock is four hours slow and will not adjust , while on a drive this week while driving briskly the engine management light lit up and went into limp mode for a split second very scary.
The car drives great lots of power and grips great in the dry, on tour 38+ mpg which is surprising in such a powerful car. The brakes work really well when you get used to them, just need a harder push, stopping power is not a problem.
The car should have been well sorted before I collected it, I read that some forum members say it is not the dealers fault well in this case it is and for such an expensive car is just not good enough.

I had the same issue with the engine management light and momentary loss of power, as you say quite scary. It appears to have rectified itself for the moment.

If support for CX cars don’t improve, some people will look elsewhere…
Posted By: Guten

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 03:45 PM

I must say I’m beginning to think a CX is not for me. I have no intention of spending about £80k on a car with poor backup. There’s very little I can’t fix properly and safely on my current 2002 4/4 but I wouldn’t tackle the CX so need to know if there are issues I can get prompt specialist attention.
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 03:58 PM

Hi Guten
Do ya want me to let you know when/if I ever get Belle back? I am happy to pop over to yours to take you out for a quick trip so you can see how much the ride/power etc has improved compared to your current mog just in case it helps at all….
No worries if not, hopefully see you at the vaccine place sometime soon anyway….
HB
Posted By: Guten

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 05:05 PM

Thank you for the offer and I may take you up on that some time. At the moment this has not been put to management swmbo only that I have a loose plan but not what I’m thinking the replacement might be - softly softly catchee monkey hide
Posted By: Almond

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by MikeFromPembroke
Originally Posted by Mikemog6
I collected my used plus six from the dealer just over two weeks ago, on collection I noted the brake warning light was lit and took the car straight back the dealer who spent two hours trying to fix the fault, but could not do so, I took the car on the proviso that a more local to me dealer would repair the fault, now I am told they cannot fit the car in until the end of October, since collecting I have noted the clock is four hours slow and will not adjust , while on a drive this week while driving briskly the engine management light lit up and went into limp mode for a split second very scary.
The car drives great lots of power and grips great in the dry, on tour 38+ mpg which is surprising in such a powerful car. The brakes work really well when you get used to them, just need a harder push, stopping power is not a problem.
The car should have been well sorted before I collected it, I read that some forum members say it is not the dealers fault well in this case it is and for such an expensive car is just not good enough.

I had the same issue with the engine management light and momentary loss of power, as you say quite scary. It appears to have rectified itself for the moment.

If support for CX cars don’t improve, some people will look elsewhere…


I also had the engine MIL issue on my CX. According to my dealer, Morgan had known of this problem and informed them of a fix for a poor earth. Worth mentioning to your dealer. It needs sorting as it is likely to happen again and you might be in a situation where you don't appreciate the sudden drop in torque delivery!

On the wider point that you make, it is difficult to disagree. Morgan do need to up their game and I honestly wonder if the rose tinted Morgan glasses that many wear are not helping MMC in the long run. Younger owners do have higher expectations and they are more critical - thats a fact borne out by nearly all in-depth customer satisfaction surveys. If Morgan want younger customers' money then they need to take what comes with it i.e higher expectations.

I purchased my 2nd Plus Four (manual as I didn't really enjoy the automatic as much as I thought I would) and 10 days after picking it up I got the stop-drive notice. I seriously considered rejecting the car then and there and it was only because I was busy with other things that I sucked it up and waited for the dealer to fix it. Also I'm lucky in that I have an Alpine A110 to enjoy so the lack of the Morgan was not so annoying.

The Plus Four has now been back on the road for a couple of weeks and all seems well so far. As far as compensation is concerned, I don't like to think about the true cost of not having the car for some months but I do feel the 3 month extension to the warranty offered by MMC is borderline laughable.

Now, where did I put my rose tinted glasses. Ah, thats better I'm all calm again now. :-).
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 05:38 PM

Mums the word… 😇. Haven’t said anything to Lady HB so we won’t mention anything if we see you. Presume you have had to do the CRB as well for the centre? Amy seems on good form and quite chirpy still…
HB
Posted By: Rovert

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich
.....if you expect expect a fault-free car. You simply won't get such a thing from a Morgan.


I bought My +8 new in 2002, it had, by a considerable margin, many more faults than any other new car I owned, which includes a couple of TVRs a Caterham* and a hand built Classic Mini (ERA Turbo), from memory it had well over 30 faults ranging from serious to trivial during the first two years of ownership. With 5 miles on the clock it dumped several pints of water, with 5.5 miles on the clock it broke down

But the thing is, when things were fixed they stayed fixed and it has been reliable and largely fault free (except for some over heating issues) ever since. The fear is that will not be the case with the CX models.

*The Caterham was fault free for the 18 years I owned it with the exception of a failed Otter switch when it was about ten years old.
Posted By: nick w

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 08:30 PM

^^
This has been my experience too. Over my six mogs the first year has always been rather sad. But once fixed by yourself or a competent garage the fixes stay fixed and the cars become very reliable and hardwearing too.
Longstanding difficulties like stupidly low sumps etc. excepted.
Nick
Posted By: Julian BB

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 09:43 PM

The first ever noggin I went to, years ago, I was the youngest person there by years, probably decades!
Pretty well all of the old fellas there looked as though they could have stripped and rebuilt their car at the side of the road and fixed any issue at all.

The (relative) simplicity of the trad design, honed and fettled over many decades to an acceptable level of mediocrity, is generally accepted, I would suggest, to be about as good as it can be.
They were rubbish when new, I've had a couple of new ones!
A pre loved car that has had its issues sorted has always been a better proposition in my opinion.

The factory are just about capable of building acceptable trad cars, they've had plenty of practice though. The (dwindling) network of dealers and specialists have got the factory out of the sh!t countless times over the decades.

The factory are not capable of building anything else other than trad cars.

They have grand aspirations to be a big time sports car builder. They are not now, have never been and will never be.

I really want the factory to succeed, I'd love them to keep building cars well into the future.
More complexity is not the way though when you have a limited design and development budget and only the parts bins of the big guys to choose from.
Posted By: mph

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Hamwich

I've seen this sentiment regularly repeated ever since I have been a Morgan owner (22 years) and doubtless it's been said for longer than that. Peter Morgan openly said that he sold cars as a starting point for the owner to improve: the thing about Morgans is that we buy them because we love them, not because they are actually any good smile

It's dead easy to buy a good-looking sports convertible that is cheaper, better built, better equipped, faster, more reliable, handles better, and is more comfortable for long distances and I would always recommend that purchasers look elsewhere if they expect any of these things from a Morgan. That's not what they are about.

i'd agree with Phil. If you can't accept the car as it is, reject it, but I'd also counsel that you look elsewhere if you expect a fault-free car. You simply won't get such a thing from a Morgan.


I think that was a fair assessment until a few years ago. Morgans were relatively simple cars, reasonably affordable and most faults could be fixed by enthusiastic owners or knowledgeable dealers with the support of the factory which included a good spares back-up.

None of the above are applicable to the current generation of Morgans. The product is now too complex for the average owner to "improve" and the after-sales support doesn't appear to be fit for purpose.

Morgan need to up their game considerably in line with the increasing cost and complexity of their product and the reasonable expectations of those who buy them.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 31/08/22 10:14 PM

I have great sympathy for the fact that MMC needed two new contemporary models in order to simply remain in the market. Besides, changes are only ever a point of criticism from the point of view of users who have grown fond of the old one. In the 1970s there was an appalling outcry when Porsche first fitted a brake booster when changing from the 2.7 G model to the 3.0 SC. In the foreseeable future, many of the new Morgan customers will no longer know how a Trad drove...with all its strengths and weaknesses. It's simply the next evolutionary step, but Morgan's positioning still remains true to itself with the CX models. The shape, the open riding experience, the individuality. No one will soon complain that the car has better suspension and more modern cornering than a Trad ever could.
Now, let's move on to the problems discussed in this thread. How should we classify them? Are they the typical teething troubles or are they systematic error results of a small series manufacturer who could never iron them out? Because the high-tech basis behind the Morgan's shape retention can only be handled by large car companies?
My gut feeling is that they are teething problems. Just two more years and it will be much more reliable. I believe this because MMC, unlike Toyota for example, only has to worry about three models being built unchanged for as long as possible (except for constant fine tuning like better seats etc).

To look on the bright side, everything that has been noticed as a CX error so far are things that are not extremely fundamentally a design error. I personally consider a lack of ground clearance worse than an unreliable radiator or a brake master cylinder as an example. The lack of ground clearance will never be changed...except for a few millimetres by fiddling. There is so far only one weak point of all CX cars that I have read so far. That is simply the way the Plus Six can unleash power when you are reckless. But even that is a question of time, because the right drivers will select themselves. And with the Plus Four, you only hear the best about the performance in relation to the car, I haven't driven a CX yet...it's all just reading.

Word will also spread among younger potential buyers that they could expect initial issues with a new Morgan. But will that stop them from wanting one? Let's assume that not all potential fans are stupid and slick naive "consumers" who equate the reliability of a Morgan with that of a Toyota. Besides...if you look on the net there are horror stories from car manufacturers where you wouldn't expect it. Maybe MMC should have to "educate" their new customers a bit, just like Peter Morgan did it. Maybe MMC has to be very accommodating in the first year, and tell a new story in case of early quirks. Not like in the past: "They are all like this", but e.g. "our handcrafted unique pieces always need some time until everything is perfect". "You are not a guinea pig but a valued customer in an illustrious circle whose car we will optimise in the maturing phase of the first year, because that is our claim and this procedure reflects our handcrafted approach“.
This is how I could envisage MMC's near positive future.
Posted By: waikiore

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 05:05 AM


Word will also spread among younger potential buyers that they could expect initial issues with a new Morgan. But will that stop them from wanting one? Let's assume that not all potential fans are stupid and slick naive "consumers" who equate the reliability of a Morgan with that of a Toyota. Besides...if you look on the net there are horror stories from car manufacturers where you wouldn't expect it. Maybe MMC should have to "educate" their new customers a bit, just like Peter Morgan did it. Maybe MMC has to be very accommodating in the first year, and tell a new story in case of early quirks. Not like in the past: "They are all like this", but e.g. "our handcrafted unique pieces always need some time until everything is perfect". "You are not a guinea pig but a valued customer in an illustrious circle whose car we will optimise in the maturing phase of the first year, because that is our claim and this procedure reflects our handcrafted approach“.
This is how I could envisage MMC's near positive future.

Yes Heinz, this is the only way forward otherwise VC type owners who are not family based may lose the taste for this project and withdraw from the company leaving Morgan ???

[/quote]
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 06:21 AM

Whilst I have only driven a CX demonstrator, my initial impression was the CX has lifted the standard of product for Morgans by producing a much better ride quality than the traditional Morgan, it felt a more complete car, with the potential to undertake long journeys in relative comfort and with ease especially with an automatic option in the line up. It was such a step change imho, I felt it was easily comparable to many modern convertibles from main stream manufacturers such as Mercedes, BMW, Porsche but clothed in a Morgan style skin. The quality of the interior e.g. the availability of air conditioning, a relatively sophisticated sound system (for Morgan) re-enforces the main stream product type expectation. I could have just as easily been driving the wife's Mercedes cabriolet when in the CX it felt such a step change when jumping straight out of a trad into the CX.

As I made that mental comparison of the CX to most modern cabriolets, the realisation that there are no electric windows, no electric hood, the cockpit is not entirely guaranteed to be waterproof, there's limited storage space for luggage, no boot to secure personal effects out of sight, not a great deal of cabin security. limited servicing and repair network usually work has to be booked weeks in advance because of limited capacity and so on with a pretty step purchase price, When one looks at safety, many cabriolets have considerable rollover protection, a proliferation of airbags, and lots of driving aids from traction control, to brake assistance to collision avoidance intervention. I was left wondering what are the advantages of a CX over other cabriolets?

To get the totally open motoring experience, you have to stop the car get out take the roof down manually, remove the side screens and find somewhere to put them so they don't get scratched or damaged and the exact same reverse operation should it start to rain. Whereas in most modern cabriolets you just press a button and it all happens in seconds rather than minutes and all from the comfort of your seat often whilst still on the move and for in some cases for much less money. With places to secure your coats, luggage and personal effects securely from prying eyes and so on. And then for a new Morgan buyer, it seemed less of a compelling product, its traditional look being the only really distinguishing feature with a considerable number of compromises in its use. I understand why many trad Morgan owners have bought a CX ,as it is a more complete, easier to live with product but not quite so sure of its enduring appeal to young buyers with so many other equally or more compelling products to choose from. Can the cache of being hand built, carry or justify the product, to the throw away society. When it comes to saving the planet, there's eg no stop/start of the engine in traffic, even the humble Mercedes cabriolet now comes with an electric motor assistance to allow much smaller less polluting engines to be used and there's a clear range of EV products in the Mercedes brand to attract and create brand loyalty quite early on.
Posted By: DalesPlusFour

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 06:51 AM

It’s funny, as one of these new “young” buyers (I’m 34) you guys often mention when despairing for the future of Morgan, I read your post with interest. All the things you list as positives are the reasons I decided I was finally able to join the family (comfort, automatic, speakers, air conditioning, and ride quality). All the “negatives” (slower manual hood, time to remove side screens, having the elements inside the car, limitations in terms of what you can bring with you due to space, limited safety features that allow for those traditional design elements inside and out, and the absence of driver aids) are the reasons I went with a Morgan and not a 718 or alternative (though I really can’t think of anything else that could go in the immediately comparable category). My view is I was buying into the Morgan experience. I wanted those slower, traditional, more hands-on experiential aspects. My partner commented a few weeks ago after a 4 day tour of the Lakes in a new Plus Four, that she was surprised people thought it was a car for older people. In her view it is a young persons car. It lacks the sealed creature comforts of a Porsche or BMW or equivalent. It’s hard to get into and out of. You get wet in the rain. It’s noisy at speeds above 45mph. In her view, and mine as well, it’s a fantastic car to have and experience adventures from. “It’s like camping on wheels, except your tent isn’t very waterproof.”

All that’s to say, I think I might be proof that Morgan got it right with the younger crowd and new buyers. What you listed as draw backs were in my view the selling features. Morgan can never be a Porsche competitor on paper. But out on the road, exploring a new place or driving a favourite country lane, there’s no comparison in my books. Morgan is the only and best choice for an adventure.
Posted By: Hamwich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by DalesPlusFour
What you listed as draw backs were in my view the selling features. Morgan can never be a Porsche competitor on paper. But out on the road, exploring a new place or driving a favourite country lane, there’s no comparison in my books. Morgan is the only and best choice for an adventure.


This man gets it. Well done Sir.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by DalesPlusFour
It’s funny, as one of these new “young” buyers (I’m 34) you guys often mention when despairing for the future of Morgan, I read your post with interest. All the things you list as positives are the reasons I decided I was finally able to join the family (comfort, automatic, speakers, air conditioning, and ride quality). All the “negatives” (slower manual hood, time to remove side screens, having the elements inside the car, limitations in terms of what you can bring with you due to space, limited safety features that allow for those traditional design elements inside and out, and the absence of driver aids) are the reasons I went with a Morgan and not a 718 or alternative (though I really can’t think of anything else that could go in the immediately comparable category). My view is I was buying into the Morgan experience. I wanted those slower, traditional, more hands-on experiential aspects. My partner commented a few weeks ago after a 4 day tour of the Lakes in a new Plus Four, that she was surprised people thought it was a car for older people. In her view it is a young persons car. It lacks the sealed creature comforts of a Porsche or BMW or equivalent. It’s hard to get into and out of. You get wet in the rain. It’s noisy at speeds above 45mph. In her view, and mine as well, it’s a fantastic car to have and experience adventures from. “It’s like camping on wheels, except your tent isn’t very waterproof.”

All that’s to say, I think I might be proof that Morgan got it right with the younger crowd and new buyers. What you listed as draw backs were in my view the selling features. Morgan can never be a Porsche competitor on paper. But out on the road, exploring a new place or driving a favourite country lane, there’s no comparison in my books. Morgan is the only and best choice for an adventure.



Great to hear, lets hope you guys are the norm rather than the exception.............I just wonder as with most things you mention, can be easily achieved in any open top car , just buy a humble Midget and you will experience exactly the same kind of motoring.

I tend to watch who is driving convertibles these days, especially in the summer roof down and it never ceases to amaze me the number of convertibles driven with the roof up on a sunny day. Most drivers roof down tend to be the more mature variety. A neighbour's daughter has had a Mercedes cabriolet from new for about 3 years now and has never had the roof down.......

Mind you I often got a few comments when driving around in the rain or on cold days even in the snow with the roof down, as long as the mohair was dry so it could be folded without permanently creasing the hood, the roof would be down, maybe some of us are made of different stuff. But I also know which manufacturers convertibles I'd rathe be in if push come to shove when exploring the limits of a sports car.


Posted By: Heinz

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 07:33 AM

Dale, you touch on a very important point.. Namely, that we older ones have to be careful not to confuse our ideas and projections about young buyers with the real young buyers. I tried to show this in my post above and you have confirmed it perfectly with evidence.
What you refer to as "positives" is exactly what distinguishes the Plus Four or Six from the Trad. Dale, I bet you didn't want to crawl under your car every 1000 miles or drive to the garage to grease the front axle?
What you mention, what JohnHarris describes as "negatives", are not negatives in your eyes. It's the character that distinguishes the Morgan from the lulling robot car, even today. I think it's fantastic how you quote your partner that the Morgan is especially a car for young (wealthy) drivers, as adventurous as the tent on the campsite, while the Porsche or BMW is (can be) such a boring and interchangeable all-inclusive resort with fixed times for SPA, sauna and dinner.
This is the perfect transformation of the eternal Morgan values to a new generation. Thank you for speaking out about this as a young driver who wants to distinguish himself from other young drivers with his individuality and character.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 07:42 AM

Heinz, interesting observations, which made me reflect on what I would compare a CX to as far as involving drives with the lack of driver aids and I start to harp back to the convertibles of the 60's, 70's and 80's. An expression of character and individuality, is equally achieved driving an humble air cooled Beetle or a Morris Minor..........
Posted By: Luddite

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 08:16 AM

Amongst the variety of those who choose to buy a Morgan will be those who have owned Morgans for many a year or even a series of Morgans over the years, and I suspect the CX perhaps fits better with the latter, whereas the former may be hanging on to their youth to some extent, myself included..(-: The latter perhaps well used to the routine of hood, side-screens and other foibles and accept it as part of the price of still being able to own a Morgan which has evolved to become more comfortable and plush, but not so much that it might have lost the essence of adventure that a Morgan ever seemed to hold.

I suspect Trike, Trad or CX, there is a rather high percentage of emotion involved all be it perhaps a variety of emotions form the rather adventurous types through to those who prefer to be just that bit different from the average sports car driver, after all Porsches are ten a penny these days... smile

Emotion..? Even today as I type I still feel very fortunate to have enjoyed the sense of adventure involved in touring Southern Europe for holidays over a few years and having numerous images of our Morgan in various interesting locations brings back highly valued memories of trials tribulations seeing places, meeting people, smiling strangers, and testing one`s self to some degree, all of which and more that I imagine would be very difficult to put a price on, and in terms of my perception of quality of life, my old Morgan has played a significant part in creating some very high quality memories.

John, I think you must be feeling a tad grumpy this morning. Having owned Midgets ( of the MG variety I hasten to add), the basics are there for sure, even some advantages over a trad, but there would seem to be quite a bit missing... Might as well equate some Fiats to Ferrari..? laugh2

BTW, I too have driven around in freezing temps without the hood up, in fact the vast majority of my Morgan driving over the years was minus hood and sidescreens, I don`t see that changing anytime soon... Though do admit to that preference limiting it`s useage in more recent times..
Posted By: bmgermany

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by DalesPlusFour
“It’s like camping on wheels, except your tent isn’t very waterproof.”

.


The question is how many "younger people" are interested on such expensive camping and how many younger people are able and interested to afford such an expensive car with "such unusual features" as a second car.

I know that some people here use their Morgan as a daily driver, but I have never seen one in Germany, for example...

The price differences in the various countries should also be taken into account.
Posted By: nick w

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 08:33 AM

" It’s like camping on wheels, except your tent isn’t very waterproof. "

That's absolutely brilliant. I'd like to have that as a sticker on the side of my mog.

It should be an advertising catchphrase.
Genius.

Nick
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Luddite
Amongst the variety of those who choose to buy a Morgan will be those who have owned Morgans for many a year or even a series of Morgans over the years, and I suspect the CX perhaps fits better with the latter, whereas the former may be hanging on to their youth to some extent, myself included..(-: The latter perhaps well used to the routine of hood, side-screens and other foibles and accept it as part of the price of still being able to own a Morgan which has evolved to become more comfortable and plush, but not so much that it might have lost the essence of adventure that a Morgan ever seemed to hold.

I suspect Trike, Trad or CX, there is a rather high percentage of emotion involved all be it perhaps a variety of emotions form the rather adventurous types through to those who prefer to be just that bit different from the average sports car driver, after all Porsches are ten a penny these days... smile

Emotion..? Even today as I type I still feel very fortunate to have enjoyed the sense of adventure involved in touring Southern Europe for holidays over a few years and having numerous images of our Morgan in various interesting locations brings back highly valued memories of trials tribulations seeing places, meeting people, smiling strangers, and testing one`s self to some degree, all of which and more that I imagine would be very difficult to put a price on, and in terms of my perception of quality of life, my old Morgan has played a significant part in creating some very high quality memories.

John, I think you must be feeling a tad grumpy this morning. Having owned Midgets ( of the MG variety I hasten to add), the basics are there for sure, even some advantages over a trad, but there would seem to be quite a bit missing... Might as well equate some Fiats to Ferrari..? laugh2

BTW, I too have driven around in freezing temps without the hood up, in fact the vast majority of my Morgan driving over the years was minus hood and sidescreens, I don`t see that changing anytime soon... Though do admit to that preference limiting it`s useage in more recent times..


Interesting, no I'm not grumpy maybe in pragmatic head mode......I did mean of the MG variety. Now interestingly and I hasten to add one should not put worlds into other people's mouth but I did reflect on your 'might as well equate some Fiats to Ferrari' might just touch on the snob value, maybe an intrinsic display of wealth......I can afford a Ferrari whether its a better product or not in performing its primary function in life ie a mode of transport when compared to the Fiat could become debateable.........cat amongst pigeons time. doh

Quality of life, fond memories may be accentuated by possessions, , but I've experienced as much fun and memorable journeys and fondest memories in the only available rental car being a basic 1.3 Hyundai going up the east coast of Australia, as I did a few days later in 5 litre v8 Ford Falcon barrelling across New Zealand. Rose tinted glasses and all that. oops Driving a Morgan can be an adventure in ways you least expect, which can make a journey more memorable not necessarily for the right reasons. In over 50 years of motoring mainly in convertibles the only time I've had to have a breakdown recovery membership and had to use is whilst I was driving a Morgan.

My most reliable Morgan was Seamus a '77 4/4 4 seater, my daily driver for 3 years, slightly shabby at the edges but reliable, did a 3k mile holiday trip in 2 weeks, up and down mountains without a moments hesitation. The reliability may have been a product of its simpler mechanics and regular daily use.
Posted By: AndyMog57

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 08:48 AM

Enzo Ferrari drove a Fiat. Just saying ...
Posted By: Heinz

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 09:36 AM

Peter Morgan drove a Ferrari🤓
Posted By: Luddite

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 10:01 AM

Andy/Heinz... rofl

Apologies if when using the Fiats to Ferraris as a comparison I might have appeared snobbish, for that was not my intention..

There have been indeed some very fine and expensive Fiats of the sporting variety, however I expect much of the emotional decision to buy a Ferrari might be related to it`s racing heritage, much like the idea of Morgan`s heritage and history of hand built craftsmanship that drew me into Morgan ownership.. Each to their own.

I too have driven foreign parts in hire cars, and grabbed the occasional pic to preserve the memory. I suspect many car enthusiasts given the choice would prefer to do the journies in their own classic, perhaps left at home for the sake of expediency..? I know I much preferred the sense of adventure that I felt when exploring similar foreign parts in my Morgan that I had previously driven in hire cars.

As for the possibility of breakdown... My Morgan being a carburettor fed Trad, was devoid of the degree of complexity to the extent that I carried my own kit of tools in the hope that my rudimentary mechanical knowledge could avoid dependence on others, at least up to a point. From a dull memory I only had to change one fan belt and replace a rubber fuel elbow, and not on the same trip, the latter should have been replaced by me due to it`s age..but then as my Mog was set up for touring I was able to repair it on the spot... Unlike my good lady`s 4x4 which had to be recovered over a fortnight ago 10 miles from home as the result of a wheel speed sensor kicking up all sorts of alarms and disturbing it`s digital programming to the extent it expressed it`s desire to be parked up and recovered... Fortunately I had reached an age where we had taken out breakdown insurance.

Having typed that almost three weeks later the 4x4 still sits at our house waiting to be picked up by flatbed and taken to the dealership now some three weeks after it broke down..... and for what... perhaps for just one sensor failing to provide the appropriate input to the ECU...? Changed days indeed.
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by DalesPlusFour
It’s funny, as one of these new “young” buyers (I’m 34) you guys often mention when despairing for the future of Morgan, I read your post with interest. All the things you list as positives are the reasons I decided I was finally able to join the family (comfort, automatic, speakers, air conditioning, and ride quality). All the “negatives” (slower manual hood, time to remove side screens, having the elements inside the car, limitations in terms of what you can bring with you due to space, limited safety features that allow for those traditional design elements inside and out, and the absence of driver aids) are the reasons I went with a Morgan and not a 718 or alternative (though I really can’t think of anything else that could go in the immediately comparable category). My view is I was buying into the Morgan experience. I wanted those slower, traditional, more hands-on experiential aspects. My partner commented a few weeks ago after a 4 day tour of the Lakes in a new Plus Four, that she was surprised people thought it was a car for older people. In her view it is a young persons car. It lacks the sealed creature comforts of a Porsche or BMW or equivalent. It’s hard to get into and out of. You get wet in the rain. It’s noisy at speeds above 45mph. In her view, and mine as well, it’s a fantastic car to have and experience adventures from. “It’s like camping on wheels, except your tent isn’t very waterproof.”

All that’s to say, I think I might be proof that Morgan got it right with the younger crowd and new buyers. What you listed as draw backs were in my view the selling features. Morgan can never be a Porsche competitor on paper. But out on the road, exploring a new place or driving a favourite country lane, there’s no comparison in my books. Morgan is the only and best choice for an adventure.


I'm still undecided if I'll sell the Plus 8 when it is fixed, or not.
The Plus 8 has "Something" the Boxster S, despite all its engineering perfection, can never have. It does well, but it lacks the spark. I've had the Plus 8 since November 2014 and it has been largely fault free. I suppose I'd become complacent and I'm paying the price.
Posted By: DalesPlusFour

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 10:42 AM

As to the question of how many young drivers are up for the Morgan experience, I have two thoughts. First, Morgan doesn’t make many cars, so there don’t need to be too many of us. Second, I know the cry of the older generations is “youth these days…” often accompanied by an eye roll and a story of the hardships of yesteryear, but in my anecdotal experience, a lot of us “snowflakes” are pulling up the carpets and returning to hard wood floors (I mean this figuratively and literally). My parents generation, indeed my grandparents generation has over seen one of the greatest periods of peace filled economic growth in history. Perhaps we’re all a little “softer” than we may admit.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 10:55 AM

Peter, you are not any longer 34, for you the positive points Dale makes are already inhaled. So the Plus Four or Six would be like your Plus 8 but minus the excitement and character of your engine? so, a tad closer to the Boxter than yours? On the other hand offering a perhaps even better suspension and a more relaxed drive? This is in no way a criticism against the CX cars, only my thoughts about the expectations we more experienced driver could have.
Posted By: Luddite

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 11:05 AM

DPF, I am definitely much softer in my dotage, to the extent that I can not enjoy my old Morgan as once I did...Soft I may be but perhaps more tuned into the possible realities ahead than some of the young, reading it in history books is perhaps not quite the same as living through it.

As for the old VS young, I remember reading words of criticism of the young that was supposedly attributed to Plato, so it is nothing new... Human nature it never seems to change.. (-:

In terms of the future, seems perhaps best to enjoy that which you have while you have it, Morgans included..?
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Heinz
Peter, you are not any longer 34, for you the positive points Dale makes are already inhaled. So the Plus Four or Six would be like your Plus 8 but minus the excitement and character of your engine? so, a tad closer to the Boxter than yours? On the other hand offering a perhaps even better suspension and a more relaxed drive? This is in no way a criticism against the CX cars, only my thoughts about the expectations we more experienced driver could have.



Heinz, if I can find a solution to the suspension of my Roadster particularly the front suspension to make it more smooth and compliant, it would be without question my favourite Morgan. Probably because I'm jumping in and out of a modern convertible into the Morgan, I become increasingly more aware of its foibles and failings. If I can get that bit sorted, its a great car, even though it only has six cylinders.
Posted By: gaston

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 12:00 PM

End of punishment!
I went to get my car this morning. I didn't notice any changes on the braking.
I don't remember how nice this car is.[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Posted By: gaston

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 12:01 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 12:02 PM

Luddite,

I was a bit unfair and being a little bit contentious when responding to your Fiat: Ferrari reference. There is something about Morgans that does get under your skin, a definite itch that has to be scratched, Can't explain it, sometimes it defies all logic and reason maybe it encapsulates the sense of being alive, standing out from the crowd, being slightly individual or even a slightly masochistic streak, when it comes to the pleasure and pain of ownership.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 12:08 PM

John, can the driving experience also have something to do with the weight of the engine and the tyre size? A narrow 165/80/15 has a noticeable suspension bounce. When the chassis was designed the cars were even lighter than a 4/4 today.
I see in your template that you have had three 4/4s and now the second Roadster. I have had three roadsters, a Plus 4 SS and now for eight years the first 4/4. I am perfectly happy with the way my 4/4 drives, but for me it is always a wild ride in the countryside when possible, far from modern. That's why it never occurs to me to compare my 4/4 with anything modern. And we take a trip to Italy or Austria every year with the car, which works well.

But I must add an observation. During 2020 and 2021 in the Covid period, we drove much less than usual. This year we went to Italy in May, after a long standstill. I have to admit that the second day of the trip from Munich to Italy was fantastic. But the first day from Cologne to Munich took a lot of getting used to. On the first day I noticed the shaking, rattling, bumping and jolting much more than normal, on the verge of annoying disturbance. On the second day I was...after the longer break, at one with the 4/4 again.

Sorry for the thread drift which had arisen from the topic that I am actually an advocate of the CX for the new generation and also for anyone of any age who likes it.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by DalesPlusFour
As to the question of how many young drivers are up for the Morgan experience, I have two thoughts. First, Morgan doesn’t make many cars, so there don’t need to be too many of us. Second, I know the cry of the older generations is “youth these days…” often accompanied by an eye roll and a story of the hardships of yesteryear, but in my anecdotal experience, a lot of us “snowflakes” are pulling up the carpets and returning to hard wood floors (I mean this figuratively and literally). My parents generation, indeed my grandparents generation has over seen one of the greatest periods of peace filled economic growth in history. Perhaps we’re all a little “softer” than we may admit.


Yep we are all softer these days, putting down fitted carpets for my generation was more a question of when could you afford it, and wooden floorboards are bloody cold and draughty in winter in the days before central heating. I certainly don't hanker after those days before modern conveniences like dishwashers......and I was never into the 'chewing' of coal as a recreational past time.
Posted By: Heinz

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 12:30 PM

gaston, glad you have her back. BTW Garage Albert looks so tasteful to represent the Morgan theme.
Posted By: JohnHarris

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Heinz
John, can the driving experience also have something to do with the weight of the engine and the tyre size? A narrow 165/80/15 has a noticeable suspension bounce. When the chassis was designed the cars were even lighter than a 4/4 today.
I see in your template that you have had three 4/4s and now the second Roadster. I have had three roadsters, a Plus 4 SS and now for eight years the first 4/4. I am perfectly happy with the way my 4/4 drives, but for me it is always a wild ride in the countryside when possible, far from modern. That's why it never occurs to me to compare my 4/4 with anything modern. And we take a trip to Italy or Austria every year with the car, which works well.

But I must add an observation. During 2020 and 2021 in the Covid period, we drove much less than usual. This year we went to Italy in May, after a long standstill. I have to admit that the second day of Monks' trip to Italy was fantastic. But the first day from Cologne to Munich took a lot of getting used to. On the first day I noticed the shaking, rattling, bumping and jolting much more than normal, on the verge of annoying disturbance. On the second day I was...after the longer break, at one with the 4/4 again.

Sorry for the thread drift which had arisen from the topic that I am actually an advocate of the CX for the new generation and also for anyone of any age who likes it.


Heinz,

Absolutely on the button, the low profile tyres plus weight of the engine has compromised the ride, if I can get a front wishbone system fitted, I would do so. I don't mind the scuttle shake, you get that in the best of convertibles I think my earlier 4/4's had a more compliant softer ride and handled undulating roads much better.

The CX proved to me what Morgan were capable of achieving and conversely how little Morgan had invested in the trad Morgan to upgrade its suspension underpinning to cope more adequately with the increase weight, power and lower profile tyres being used.

Apologises for drift but an interesting exchange.

Posted By: NickB54

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 07:06 PM

I do believe this topic has gone off piste.

I collected my PlusSix today from Allon White, super job thank you, and there was no noticeable difference in the brakes, good fell not too much travel and they work, new master cylinder fitted and swirl pot. When asking if springs had been changed I was met with puzzlement. Has everyone had this part of the master cylinder recall carried out or was it specific vehicles?
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 08:00 PM

I was chatting to a chap in Wales this morning who was getting into a '22 reg Plus Four, he asked some relevant questions about my Roadster, so of course I asked about brakes, radiators, swirlpots...bla bla, he just shrugged his shoulders and said "we've only hired it for a couple of days" laugh2
Posted By: RichardV6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 01/09/22 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by CooperMan
I was chatting to a chap in Wales this morning who was getting into a '22 reg Plus Four, he asked some relevant questions about my Roadster, so of course I asked about brakes, radiators, swirlpots...bla bla, he just shrugged his shoulders and said "we've only hired it for a couple of days" laugh2

Fingers crossed then innocent
Posted By: flyfisher

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 02/09/22 07:27 PM

Does anyone know what happened to the 2023 MY updates that was due to be announced, have they just been delayed due to the brake issues
Posted By: CooperMan

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 02/09/22 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by flyfisher
Does anyone know what happened to the 2023 MY updates that was due to be announced, have they just been delayed due to the brake issues

They were supposed to kick in on new builds from after the summer shut down, but still not seen it officially announced
Posted By: Jens

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 03/09/22 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by bmgermany
Originally Posted by DalesPlusFour
“It’s like camping on wheels, except your tent isn’t very waterproof.”

.


The question is how many "younger people" are interested on such expensive camping and how many younger people are able and interested to afford such an expensive car with "such unusual features" as a second car.


This is true for the CX Morgan, but not for the trad 4/4. Since you would find between 20,000 - 30,000 euros a very nice used car. Many people spend this sum on a motorcycle. Where we are with motorcycles, in the motorcycle scene there are the "Hipsters". Stylish young peoples wearing retro clothes and riding old or retro motorcycles. I am surprised that these young people have not yet discovered the used Morgan.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/09/22 08:34 AM

After two weeks , i find the brakes better , i feel more confident with the car.
Posted By: Haytop

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/09/22 01:45 PM

Many of you will have seen the update of the Chairman of the MCDC in the September edition of Miscellany (page 11).

It is pleasing that the MMC have deigned to respond to some of the concerns of CX purchasers passed of purchasers of CX cars and “Morgan” dealers after a further approach by the Chairman and others. The management of MMC must have been aware of such concerns for some time but in the changed circumstances this posting is less critical than otherwise it would have been.

Before reading this article I had completed a draft posting which began as follows;-

“I refer to my earlier postings in particular that appearing 8th July 2022). Since then I have held my peace notwithstanding that it appears that the management of MMC seem determined to compete for something like a Gerald Ratner award for appalling lack of respect to customers and conduct causing damage to the reputation of products supplied to and offered to the public. We all know what happened to the share value of Gerald Ratner’s eponymous jewellery business and the realisable value of his products but more importantly to the reputation of the business.”

Hopefully MMC are now and will be adopting a more sensible and realistic approach

I say (but it is a matter for you) that there were always three glaring omissions:-

• Failure to communicate with realistic regularity a time estimate as to when the remedial work would be done;
• Failure to explain that the Mercedes recall related to a different defect caused by corrosion to either the metal casing and/or bracket to a brake master cylinder (not the rubber seals); and
• Failure to notify that the risk of conviction for dangerous driving if the CX vehicle was used (in my view a probability depending on the individual circumstances).

I am not a young man as described in some of the posts. In my youth I owned sports cars but graduated to more traditional sedate cars to cater for family needs. After retirement I carefully considered buying a used Morgan but was dissuaded by the fact that I am not an engineer of any skill. My thinking was that if I had a Morgan it would end up in bits/unroadworthy in the garage at the back of my house. When the new CX PlusFour was reviewed I saw the opportunity to purchase a “real car” which I would enjoy and appreciate. The joy and appreciation of driving the PlusFour before the 8th June was unconfined. As I understand the general tenor of many of the posts in this thread there are many like me and like me they feel badly “let down” not by the car but by MMC in its dealing with the situation that has arisen (not least my PlusFour being in the garage unroadworthy for 3 months during the Summer).

I have been heartened by the posts emails relating to the fitting of a replacement master brake cylinders and swill pots on CX vehicles after a long wait and “hiccups” without any attempt by MMC to provide a steady stream of information of events and progress as concern increased and was expressed. It is apparently the case that there are three types of “remedial kits” supplied to dealers for fitting, viz one for Plus 6, one for Plusfour manual gearbox and one for Plusfour automatics. This should have been explained long ago together with the reason why some models had to be modified at the factory in Malvern.

Some particular matters are still outstanding and I identify four (this is not a complete list) as follows:-

1. The failure to outline proposals to remedy the apparent defects relating to the suspension of the Plus 6 or alternatively why there are no such proposals;
2. The failure to explain in clear terms the proposed extended warranty (including details of what it is intended to relate – the car or specific items including the radiator whether or not a new one is fitted). I would suggest that at the very least any new warranty should cover the whole of the cooling system (including the radiator whether replaced or not because I understand that the reason for the failure of radiators in some cars but not in others has not been resolved) and the master cylinder with associated replacement pipes and cable for a period of two years. As to the remainder of the vehicle the provisions of the warranty for a further period of 3 months from the date of fitting of the kits might be a bonus;
3. The question of compensation for loss of use/amenity/inconvenience (which I for my part do not intend to press if the warranty position is “sorted^);
4. The proving that particular CX models are no longer subject to the recall:

As to the course of events since the 8th June I (speaking personally but it is a matter for those reading this post) do not accept that the involvement of ”legal bodies and authorities” and “the nature of this campaign” cause insurmountable problems with regard to the flow of information (which in any event has been to say the least for practical purposes been inadequate) or are the cause of the delay. Management of MMC are employed on the basis that such matters are overcome in a commercial way after proper and expeditious consideration and the making of proper inquiries as advised by lawyers and engineers. Obviously there may be a delay in obtaining the relevant new components but the numbers are not large.
Purchasers of CX vehicles have been left in an impossible position as regards travel arrangements and mitigation of inconvenience and damage. Dealers have been left in the position that they could no answer the legitimate inquiries of customers actual and prospective as to the likely period of delay.
As to 4 above (the stop drive noticeI I was surprised to find out by a search in the government DVSA website using the registration number and the vin number of my PlusFour that the result was

“ We don't hold information about manufacturer's safety recalls for MORGAN PLUS FOUR AUTO [Number]
To find out if your vehicle has any outstanding safety recalls, contact a MORGAN dealership.”

It seems to me that those who have had the work done should do a search to find out what is recorded against the relevant vehicle. I assume that when the work has been done on my PlusFour I will receive under a protocol approved by MMC a written document (identifying the components fitted) of some kind to this effect. I understand that he dealers have been thrown into such chaos by MMC that it strikes me as likely that some will give up the connection with the result that that their records as to work done will be no longer available in the future. Another possibility is that in present economic conditions they may become insolvent so that a purchaser of a car will be left to deal with a liquidator or administrator. Hopefully there will be an accessible record showing which CX cars are compliant

I repeat that I am pleased to see that MMC recognises that there is frustration but I emphasise that in my respectful view on the information available on this topic to date this has been caused and is being caused by the inept approach of MMC to providing information and updates. The attempt to explain by hiding behind a woefully bare and inadequate assertion that the company is faced with a complex situation and working hard shows a lack of respect to purchasers of CX vehicles and the reputation of the Morgan marque. MMC has an overriding duty to be open and frank when the present situation arose and has failed in that duty.
Posted By: 1560

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 07/09/22 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by thierry242
After two weeks , i find the brakes better , i feel more confident with the car.


You and a few others get a better car, at least one positive note cheers
Posted By: NickB54

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/09/22 02:04 PM

I wrote to Steve Morris when the recall was launched highlighting my concerns, the disruption it was likely to cause to summer motoring plans and, adding my support to the decision to add a stop notice to the recall if safety may be compromised. I received a reply almost by return.

When I had my car returned last week I again sent a letter to Mr Morris expressing my support for my local Dealer, Allon White, who carried out the work, and expressing my concern that a 3 month extension to the warranty, in my case it runs through to December, was totally inadequate.

Needless to say no response has been forthcoming, highlighting the continued lack of information emanating from MMC. A holding letter would have been acceptable if a review of the original offer was being considered, a dismissal would have let me know how much my custom is worth to their franchise, but a deafening silence is not in anyway acceptable.

The problem now is by going to the top man one has nowhere else to go other than litigation. No win no fee lawyers are plentiful as the Dieselgate saga has shown.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/09/22 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by NickB54
I wrote to Steve Morris when the recall was launched highlighting my concerns, the disruption it was likely to cause to summer motoring plans and, adding my support to the decision to add a stop notice to the recall if safety may be compromised. I received a reply almost by return.

When I had my car returned last week I again sent a letter to Mr Morris expressing my support for my local Dealer, Allon White, who carried out the work, and expressing my concern that a 3 month extension to the warranty, in my case it runs through to December, was totally inadequate.

Needless to say no response has been forthcoming, highlighting the continued lack of information emanating from MMC. A holding letter would have been acceptable if a review of the original offer was being considered, a dismissal would have let me know how much my custom is worth to their franchise, but a deafening silence is not in anyway acceptable.

The problem now is by going to the top man one has nowhere else to go other than litigation. No win no fee lawyers are plentiful as the Dieselgate saga has shown.


It may be that, due to the modern scourge of threatening litigation for everything, the company lawyers have put a gagging order on communications on this matter.
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/09/22 02:48 PM

Does anybody know how BMW, Mercedes and so on deal with compensation following a no drive recall??

The only experience I have, and its not much, is with the VW diesel debacle and so far, nothing has come of this.

Has anyone tried communicating directly with the MDs of huge companies like this? How did it go?
Posted By: Julian BB

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/09/22 05:49 PM

It seems to me that Plus Four/Plus six owners are perhaps confused in thinking that they are dealing with a big time professional car manufacturer who can afford to pay out huge compensation claims.
Maybe BMW, Mercedes etc can dig into their corporate coffers and compensate the hard done by owners of their product for their inability to use their cars.

I don't know for sure, and I'm sure someone will quickly say, but I'd have thought the whole brake problem and radiator issue, combined with a lack of confidence in the company as a whole has done considerable damage to the brand.

Litigate hard against against MMC, get the most rabid and hard nosed no win no fee lawyers on the case, get out of the factory what you think you deserve for your hardship.
Lets see how long MMC last after that. I'd imagine it'll see the end of the brand we all love......

Take the 3 month warranty extension, put it all down to experience and enjoy your cars.

It's a Morgan, they all do that Sir.
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/09/22 05:51 PM

I am not aware of any compensation for recalls on my MB or previous cars. But then when the brake recall on the ML popped up I was given a slot 3 days ahead until they realised I did not need it.

Apples and oranges though.

It’s not about how you fail but how you recover.

Three months from a stop to a recovery in one of the best summers does tingle.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/09/22 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Julian BB


I don't know for sure, and I'm sure someone will quickly say, but I'd have thought the whole brake problem and radiator issue, combined with a lack of confidence in the company as a whole has done considerable damage to the brand.

Litigate hard against against MMC, get the most rabid and hard nosed no win no fee lawyers on the case, get out of the factory what you think you deserve for your hardship.
Lets see how long MMC last after that. I'd imagine it'll see the end of the brand we all love......

Take the 3 month warranty extension, put it all down to experience and enjoy your cars.



Bang on the money for me too thumbs
Posted By: Mikemog6

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/09/22 06:21 PM

[quo

It's a Morgan, they all do that Sir.


[/quote]

Not acceptable anymore, you play in the big league, big boys rules apply.
Posted By: Julian BB

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/09/22 08:02 PM

It's perhaps an indication of the way the world has become that people feel they must either litigate or be compensated for any issue that may or may not have caused them some slight inconvenience.
Morgan have always had aspirations of 'big league', perhaps in the same way that Del Boy did!

I wonder what the 'big boy rules' are in relation to Morgan generally and this issue in particular.

The new cars are wildly expensive I think, for what they are. There are so very many 'better' cars, but buyers must really want a Morgan to spend £80k+ on a toy.
I think it's 'optimistic' to expect that a Morgan, however expensive, would ever be, in any way, as 'good a car' as anything from the big boys.

The factory put a 'stop recall' on the cars to very wisely prevent use and prevent any accidents.
They then undertake to rectify the faults as soon as possible.
Despite the low budget, hand to mouth, vintage nature of the factory and the widespread and sparse dealer network, they then manage to put in place a programme to recover and fix all the cars.
No one died.
What more could anyone expect?

Would a few quid in compensation or another few months on the warranty make anyone that much happier?
If it had pi$$ed it down all summer would anyone be as bothered?
So it was sunny for a change, hopefully it will be a mild Autumn, get out and drive the cars.
Posted By: nick w

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/09/22 09:33 PM

Just my " not expert" opinion but I think that if MMC had not moved to the "big boy" league, they wouldn't have survived. There must have been a pressing financial or vehicle standard reason for them to have stopped making the trad cars when they were clearly the bulk of rolling income stream.
Nick
Posted By: Alistair

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/09/22 09:34 PM

Many of your points are fair Julian but would it not be true that a little love at the right time can go a long way.

Imagine in five years time someone looks back and mentions this. Will it be

1) it took three months of the best summer to sort it. I felt really pissed off. They never even contacted me to apologise.
2) well they tried to do right by us in the end, it got sorted given the resources they had and extended our warranty and made a gesture to extend our road tax for the time we could not use them.

It's about feeling cared for? Maybe not for an MB or Tesla but for a specialist company like Morgan who trade on it I would imagine someone is feeling a bit nervous? It's not like it is only 5% of the turnover that has gone U/S is it ?
Posted By: NickB54

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 08/09/22 10:34 PM

Well that put a cat amongst the pigeons and stirred things up a bit!

My points were simply to highlight the lack of response from The Top Man at MMC.

To clearly state that 3 months additional warranty amounts to very little in my case as it will cover September, October and November of this year. In effect one month of reasonable use one month of occasional use and one month of use if we are lucky.

This clip trap that its a Morgan so get on with it simply don’t wash. My Plus 4 had 20 years of trouble free motoring a trip to Rome and a tour around Spain and Portugal. The components used to build the CX platform vehicles have all been type approved. The brake master cylinder failure cost will either be covered by the supplier or their insurance as should consequential costs.

As previously mentioned the actual cost of the additional warranty is minimal, why do you think KIA and the like have such long warranties? It gives nervous customers peace of mind. And peace of mind for the next 12 months would make me extremely happy!
Posted By: waikiore

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/09/22 02:38 AM

Whilst agreeing with Julian BB , I would not have thought adding a years warranty would have cost the company that much with such a modern power plant and gearbox.
Posted By: Ian Wegg

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/09/22 06:53 AM

My brother-in-law has a 2020 Ferrari which also has brake issues:

"The brake fluid reservoir cap may not vent properly, creating a vacuum inside the brake fluid reservoir, and resulting in a brake fluid leak that may lead to a partial or total loss of brake function.
Dealers will replace the brake fluid reservoir cap and update the software to provide a new warning message for low brake fluid, free of charge.”


He only found out when my nephew saw it online, he's heard nothing from either Ferrari or his dealer. Apparently, letters to U.S. customers are being sent at the end of this month.

In comparison, I think Morgan has been remarkably proactive.
Posted By: Perry_P_M3W

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/09/22 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by DaveW
Does anybody know how BMW, Mercedes and so on deal with compensation following a no drive recall??

The only experience I have, and its not much, is with the VW diesel debacle and so far, nothing has come of this.

Has anyone tried communicating directly with the MDs of huge companies like this? How did it go?


It has been my experience Dave that 99% of the time, contacting an MD results in one of their assistants replying. Most OEMs do not offer a full vehicle extension on warranty but rather on the affected part and with some offering a small token of goodwill.

I recall Porsche having a stop sale on 718s with the 4.0 engine with a few resulting in a full engine swap. Warranties were extended on the engine and in some regions a gift voucher for service or parts.

Personally, I feel that we/many hold MMC to a higher standard due to how open MMC are with owners and fans. Part of what drew me to Morgan was the fact you got the sense of belonging to the 'family' but in doing so they open up higher expectations, be it justified or not.

Just my two cents smile
Posted By: Fox Terrier

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/09/22 07:06 AM

Our Mercedes-based motorhome was off the road for a number of weeks with only 65 miles on the clock. Mercedes customer service were initially dreadful but eventually sorted the problem and gave us a free service as compensation. That was a very expensive vehicle off the road - similar to the price of a new Morgan. Having an expensive vehicle doesn't guarantee good service.
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/09/22 07:40 AM

I am thinking that Morgan has made a really big step in the build quality of the plus six and plus four. Look closely at the car and it is not so bad . The radiator problem exist since the plus six and untill now they have changed the radiator free of charge . The brake is a part not coming for Morgan and it is fixed by Morgan. Ok three months in summer is not funny but it is done and the car braking is a little better.
Now i will enjoy the car even driving in the winter. The price has increased too much , but i suppose the man hours have also increased in uk, and the car is built by hand not by a robot. What is the cost of a complete power train from bmw. What is the cost of the new chassis .And when the car will be sold you will have almost your money back. Yesterday i have washed my car , i am going to the garage only to look at the car , do you do that with your Mercedes,BMW, Peugeot,Audi . When you drive in the street you receive thumbs up , sometimes people asked me if the car could be hired for their mariage. Nobody is jealous of you when you own a morgan ( not sure if it is the case with a porsche,ferrari,etc)
Posted By: Jens

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/09/22 01:30 PM

Julian, Morgan isn´t any longer a small family-run company. Now Morgan is owned by a multi-million dollar investment company. You can now also set the standards there, like at other big corporations.
Posted By: NickB54

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/09/22 01:59 PM

Delighted to receive a note from Steve Morris today even if it was a holding note until next week.

I live in hope.
Posted By: Deejay

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 09/09/22 07:23 PM

IMHO: The only step MMC appear to have taken into the “big boy” league is to inflate to “big boy” prices! Proper pre production testing would surely have ironed out all the issues that have since arisen. However, the Super3 is now so long in coming, maybe they have learned a lesson and are trying to get it right first time.
As for investment value, I still see 20 and 30 year old Morgans for sale at prices greater than they were new; sadly, many early CX models seem to be offered at up to £20k less than new! Annual “ MY” updates will only serve to make earlier models less desirable.
Posted By: DaveW

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 10/09/22 09:51 AM

Oh I just remembered that when I took my diesel Golf in to have the ECU "Upgrade", I received an insulated VW branded coffee mug, a keyring and a small bag of sweets. laugh2
Posted By: 1560

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/09/22 12:22 PM

The Fix on my LM62 is done, picking it up next week woohoo
Posted By: thierry242

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/09/22 01:22 PM

Just on time for your mariage
Posted By: 1560

Re: Safety Recall - Brakes - 22/09/22 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by thierry242
Just on time for your mariage

Yes love

She drove up the Stelvio today, in the GT4
So nice to share our passion for driving
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