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Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system

Posted By: CarMart

Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 13/10/19 01:45 PM

Hi

As a recent purchaser of a 1989 Plus Four I'm a bit confused by the conflicting advice I've been given about front suspension lubrication. My car still has the 1 shot lubrication system fitted and the handbook recommends operating this every 200 miles; as well as greasing periodically (because the grease 'helps to retain the oil'?).

Some owners I've spoken to advocate this approach. But several have been vehemently opposed to using the one shot oiler at all; and say it's unnecessary as long as suspension is regularly greased via grease nipple.

What do others think? I'm erring towards the greasing only approach. The Gomog site suggests this is done every 1500 miles?

Views welcomed; and apologies if this debate has been done to death elsewhere!

Martin
Posted By: TBM

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 13/10/19 02:00 PM

After doing lots of reading, I removed my system. Fitted grease nipples to the top of the kingpins (although never use them at the top, it's just to keep the crap out) and blanking plugs at the outlets at the 'plunger', Tend to grease the lowers about every 500 miles.

Eventually I'll remove the plunger completely and run a reinforced braided hose from the engine to oil pressure sender.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 13/10/19 02:02 PM

Most of the fittings are 1/8 BSP
Posted By: Richard Wood

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 13/10/19 02:05 PM

Having read many opinions on front suspension greasing I chose every 1000 mile or so. I was finding the electric steering motor whining though as I approached this interval. Fresh grease cured this, suggesting the steering was stiffening up a tad prior. Now greasing at 700 mile intervals.

FWIW zero wear found on kingpins after 8000+ miles from new during recent strip down to fit SSL kit, so I can't be doing too much wrong.
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 13/10/19 02:05 PM

IF you use the one-shot oiler, only do it on a cold start - warm/hot oil can wash the grease out.
Grease at a maximum of around 1000 miles. I usually do it earlier.
Like Phil I have removed the oiler pipes and replaced with grease nipples on top of the king pins.
Posted By: Button

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 13/10/19 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Richard Wood
Having read many opinions on front suspension greasing I chose every 1000 mile or so. I was finding the electric steering motor whining though as I approached this interval. Fresh grease cured this, suggesting the steering was stiffening up a tad prior. Now greasing at 700 mile intervals.

FWIW zero wear found on kingpins after 8000+ miles from new during recent strip down to fit SSL kit, so I can't be doing too much wrong.


This is very interesting and something I had not heard of in the past. On all 3 of My Morgans the One Shot Oiler has been removed for almost 20 years. GOMOG has the best write up IMO.
Posted By: Moggo

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 13/10/19 03:44 PM

I use copious quantities of grease at 500 mile intervals to both top and bottom nipples, until grease emerges from the bottom thrust bearing, being careful to wipe away excess spill before and after. At 28,000 miles I changed the pillars for chromed hard ones which have now reached over 40,000 miles in service with NO discernable signs of wear.
By greasing often I feel the steering is very much improved. My assumption is that this is because the caster angle is quite small and requires friction here to be minimal. I don't know if this makes sense but the more mechanically minded will hopefully shed more light on the subject.
Posted By: PhilRoyle

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 13/10/19 03:52 PM

I grease every 1000 miles - I have hard chrome kingpins and phosphor bronze bushes. No problems so far.
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 13/10/19 04:40 PM

It will also extend kingpin life if you if you fit a form of gaiter to the lower, rebound, spring. Keep the worst of the road crud out which can cause faster wear...
Posted By: Tonyh157

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 13/10/19 07:43 PM

I’m glad someone else is confused! I’ve a 94 plus 4 and I too am unsure how and to lubricate the front suspension. I like the sound of getting rid of the oiler and reverting to grease nipples. My question is whether anyone does a kit to enable the swop including nipples, braided hoses etc? Instructions would also help!
Posted By: TBM

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 13/10/19 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Tonyh157
I’m glad someone else is confused! I’ve a 94 plus 4 and I too am unsure how and to lubricate the front suspension. I like the sound of getting rid of the oiler and reverting to grease nipples. My question is whether anyone does a kit to enable the swop including nipples, braided hoses etc? Instructions would also help!


This covers most of it:

Greasing Kingpins
Posted By: PHZI

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 14/10/19 08:43 AM

Yes I would remove. Greasing the new top points doesn't seem to work so I don't bother. I grease every 500 miles (hard chrome king pins) but on extended road trips, 1.500 miles, presents no problems. Driving on short trips, town work, lots of steering twiddling requires more frequent greasing.
Posted By: CarMart

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 14/10/19 11:28 AM

Thanks all - very helpful (and I'm slightly comforted that Tony was as confused as I am!).

Consensus appears to be go for regular greasing rather than resorting to the oiler.

Any reason why people are going to the effort of completely removing the 1 shot oiler system; rather than just not using it?

if you do remove the oiler system and fit grease nipples to top of king pins I can see that this would keep the crud out; but presumably greasing through these wouldn't work due to the greater viscosity of grease being forced through a narrow passage designed for thinner oil?

Martin
Posted By: gsel

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 14/10/19 11:34 AM

I have an '89 +4 and in the 5 years I have had the car I have never used the oiler (I have done about 10,000 miles). I haven't had the system removed, I just ignore it. I grease the nipples at the bottom end every 1000 miles or so. I have gaiters fitted at the bottom to keep the grease etc off the brake discs. The history file that came with the car shows the kingpins were changed 15 years ago, but just for ordinary ones. I asked BHM when it was in for service in March whether I needed the kingpins changing and their view was they were fine. For me if I forget to grease I know it's due when the steering feels like its crashing into bumps, rather than bouncing over them. Once you've greased the kingpins you can tell the difference.
Posted By: TBM

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 14/10/19 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by CarMart
Thanks all - very helpful (and I'm slightly comforted that Tony was as confused as I am!).

Consensus appears to be go for regular greasing rather than resorting to the oiler.

Any reason why people are going to the effort of completely removing the 1 shot oiler system; rather than just not using it?


I removed it as I was sure I was going to catch/rip/break it at somepoint whilst wielding the spanners!

Originally Posted by CarMart
if you do remove the oiler system and fit grease nipples to top of king pins I can see that this would keep the crud out; but presumably greasing through these wouldn't work due to the greater viscosity of grease being forced through a narrow passage designed for thinner oil?


Yep smile
Posted By: Button

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 14/10/19 02:34 PM

My friend in Sun Valley, Idaho bought a 2000 +8 New. She drove it 50,000 miles and She never touched the Oiler nor greased the KP's. She did take long trips. The +8 was maintained/greased by a local mechanic that She hired. At 50,000 miles I dismantled the front Suspension and inspected it. Mild Steel KP's and bronze bushes. Probably good for at least 20,000 more miles.
Posted By: Rog G

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 14/10/19 06:44 PM

This is against the consensus, but, I have had my 1971 4/4 since 1980 and have done 150,000 miles or so since then. I use the one shot oiler at every petrol fill up and grease the suspension once a year. Last year I changed the kingpins and bushes only for the second time, so am getting. 50,000 miles before wear is unacceptable.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 14/10/19 09:51 PM


I'm with you on this Rog, on both my Plus 8's I retained the one shot and if used as advised in the Morgan handbook it's a system that works well. Apart from this I prefer to keep the cars I have owned as they came out of the factory and for that reason take care in choosing them I'm not keen on extra bits bolted on and stuck everywhere and it adds weight grin2.
Posted By: Button

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 15/10/19 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by +8Rich

I'm with you on this Rog, on both my Plus 8's I retained the one shot and if used as advised in the Morgan handbook it's a system that works well. Apart from this I prefer to keep the cars I have owned as they came out of the factory and for that reason take care in choosing them I'm not keen on extra bits bolted on and stuck everywhere and it adds weight grin2.


Ha Ha! I am just the opposite with my +8 Bitsa. But what I did probably could not be done anyplace else in most of the civilized World. If You can call the U.S. civilized. (Lately I wonder) When I started this +8 project I had plenty of warnings about the ramifications of it. But I wanted what no one else had. A custom +8 built as I wanted it to be. Yes I did not save a dime. But I did have loads of fun. I appreciate MMC much more as now I understand a lot of the design decisions they made. I also had Lorne Goldman's EMOG for advice and a focus of getting the parts I would need. Although I did not know then but I put a short door body on a long door chassis. I did not even know what a long door was at the time. I also ordered the wrong stub axles. They have been changed 3 times since 1969. Is My +8 better than MMC's Morgan +8? Well Yes and No. Mainly NO!!! The re-sale value of My Bitsa is virtually nil. Keeping ones Factory +8 nice and shiny and original is not stupid. So far owning a Morgan Original +8 is almost better than cash in the Bank.

My situation was unique. Mrs. Button was ill and needed me 24-7 to take care of Her. A garage project I was interested in was just what I needed at that time. I also could afford this type of project. Many times Mrs. Button would come out to the garage and check My progress. It was a difficult time for Her and Me.
Posted By: +8Rich

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 15/10/19 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Button
Originally Posted by +8Rich

I'm with you on this Rog, on both my Plus 8's I retained the one shot and if used as advised in the Morgan handbook it's a system that works well. Apart from this I prefer to keep the cars I have owned as they came out of the factory and for that reason take care in choosing them I'm not keen on extra bits bolted on and stuck everywhere and it adds weight grin2.


Ha Ha! I am just the opposite with my +8 Bitsa. But what I did probably could not be done anyplace else in most of the civilized World. If You can call the U.S. civilized. (Lately I wonder) When I started this +8 project I had plenty of warnings about the ramifications of it. But I wanted what no one else had. A custom +8 built as I wanted it to be. Yes I did not save a dime. But I did have loads of fun. I appreciate MMC much more as now I understand a lot of the design decisions they made. I also had Lorne Goldman's EMOG for advice and a focus of getting the parts I would need. Although I did not know then but I put a short door body on a long door chassis. I did not even know what a long door was at the time. I also ordered the wrong stub axles. They have been changed 3 times since 1969. Is My +8 better than MMC's Morgan +8? Well Yes and No. Mainly NO!!! The re-sale value of My Bitsa is virtually nil. Keeping ones Factory +8 nice and shiny and original is not stupid. So far owning a Morgan Original +8 is almost better than cash in the Bank.

My situation was unique. Mrs. Button was ill and needed me 24-7 to take care of Her. A garage project I was interested in was just what I needed at that time. I also could afford this type of project. Many times Mrs. Button would come out to the garage and check My progress. It was a difficult time for Her and Me.

That makes your Bitsa a very special car then, that is a lovely poignant story thanks for sharing it with us on TM.
Posted By: HeadlessBlue

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 16/10/19 08:04 AM

+1 re Mr Button - v touching story and I echo Rich’s sentiment
HB
Posted By: waikiore

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 16/10/19 08:21 AM

Though relatively new to this Morgan maintenance lark compared to some of you I believe that the factory fitted push button oiler and grease at lower can work fine if operated how Morgan advise, and I am aware that our local Morgan restoration man with many years of experience concurs.
If I was to change the kingpins in the future I am quite keen on trying 2205 pins with Vesconite bushes as I have lots of experience with this combination in aggressive marine situations.
Posted By: pickles

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 16/10/19 11:13 AM

Hi always look for your input to the many posts I read.enjoy your engineers outlook to problems and positive outlook to life .A star.
Posted By: Button

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 16/10/19 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by waikiore
Though relatively new to this Morgan maintenance lark compared to some of you I believe that the factory fitted push button oiler and grease at lower can work fine if operated how Morgan advise, and I am aware that our local Morgan restoration man with many years of experience concurs.
If I was to change the kingpins in the future I am quite keen on trying 2205 pins with Vesconite bushes as I have lots of experience with this combination in aggressive marine situations.


I have used Vesconite and Chrome KP's for many years. The idea of Vesconite came from a Australian Mining Engineer.
Posted By: BobtheTrain

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 16/10/19 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Button
The idea of Vesconite came from a Australian Mining Engineer.

I thought it was from an American from Vesconsin.
Posted By: Button

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 16/10/19 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by BobtheTrain
Originally Posted by Button
The idea of Vesconite came from a Australian Mining Engineer.

I thought it was from an American from Vesconsin.


No that was the Model T from Wishigan
Posted By: Gambalunga

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 16/10/19 10:52 PM

Oh no! I Canuck take any more of these silly puns.
Posted By: sospan

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 17/10/19 06:19 PM

I had the one-shot on my first car....1993.
If I was going to keep the car I would have removed it.
My current car has grease system and I grease at 1000 miles MAX intervals. If away on a weekender I grease again, irrespective of mileage lapse. I have hard chrome kingpins and done 30k+ miles and no signs of wear when doing the wheel shake test. When greasing I lever up the bronze plate and grease until some comes out from the gap,a tip from Phil at Allon White when buying my first Mog fromhim. A pneumatic greaser makes it easier.
Grease is cheap and greasing allows a quick check on the underside/hubs etc..
Just to add that the rear leaf springs should be treated too. The consensus is to spray chain lube on them as it penetrates between the leaves. Not as frequent as the front but about 4/6 times a year (7k+ annual mileage).
Posted By: britmog

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 18/10/19 01:21 AM

For what it is worth I removed the one shot oiler on both my 64 4/4 and 94 +8, why: because the oil can wash out the grease and does not actually do any real lubrication of the system. Also as happened in my +8 if you get a leak in the system you can rapidly lose oil (as its under pressure when engine running) which is not good for engine!!! Unless you have new Kingpins or have drilled out the old ones it is no use putting grease nipples in the top as the grease will not go down the pin. Just grease from the bottom every 1000 miles or seasonal oil change whichever is sooner, use gaiters too. On my 94 +8 I have over 75,000 miles and very little play in the original Kingpins.
Posted By: Robbie Mathisen

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 18/10/19 07:44 AM

Seems to be consensus that the one shot oiler is not very important (or unimportant) and can even be harmful if the oil is hot. And according to the gurus, fitting a grease nipple to the top of the KP is useless because the channel drilled down the KP is so thin that it doesn't permit grease to penetrate, just oil. So if one doesn't want to use the one shot oiler system, why can't one do just that? What is the purpose of dismantling the system as long as one keeps the KPs unchanged?
Posted By: SteveH

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 21/10/19 08:30 PM

Hi Graham Good to see you on Saturday. —- unfortunately like ships in the night once again.
Greasing. We fitted remote greasers (as recommended by Ian ) and pp gaiters from Concourse Dave. Seem to work really well as long as Pauline is still nimble enough to twist her neck underneath and watch out for the grease in between services. Once a year we put her (the Morgan that is ) on the ramp and work clean grease through the pillars. It doesn’t help me run Prescott any quicker - but it makes me feel good 😂😂😂
Posted By: Graham, G4FUJ

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 22/10/19 06:52 AM

And you Steve.
Not quite as busy as I expected (though the fist train from CRC was packed).
Put a note in another thread in Morgan Arms. smile
Posted By: britmog

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 22/10/19 08:00 PM

Robbie,

I didn't use the one shot oiler for a long time, the problem occurred with the piping becoming brittle and starting to leak. You do want to have a leak in the system before the foot switch as it is under pressure and loss of oil could be catastrophic. As I was not using the system I simply removed the pipe to the foot switch, relocated the oil pressure sender to the oil filter housing and eliminated the issue.
Posted By: britmog

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 23/10/19 02:34 PM

Of course in the post above I should have said "You do NOT want to .........."
Posted By: Robbie Mathisen

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 23/10/19 07:06 PM

Britmog, well explained.
Posted By: NeilL

Re: Advice sought re "1 shot lubrication" system - 23/10/19 09:25 PM

I saw ..and used ..the One Shot system this week on a 4/4 I was looking at. It seemed v v simple. And worked v well for the owner. The King Pins have just been replaced after 40,000 miles!
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