Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Ethanol in petrol

Thanks for sharing that - well worth taking the time to read it.

+1. Very disturbing.I usually use Shell but from now on super from other suppliers

Very good article x Chris Thompson - a long read but worthwhile!

Ethanol has caused and continues to cause a great deal of distress and ongoing issues to Veteran,Vintage and classic bike riders/owners.

There are many monthly articles in the VMCC magazine mainly about damage caused to Tanks,fuel lines,carbs etc. It also melts tank sealants causing a multitude of issues as u can imagaine

In general I would not be too sure about which brand is good, which brand is bad on any given day. You are very likely to find that the petrol in a given area will all, or nearly all, have come from one refinery and will all be from the same production train and will all be the same on the day it was produced and will all meet the relevant specifications for octane etc. On another day it will be different due to the different fractions available to formulate the fuel on that day, but will still meet the same specifications and everywhere will get that batch of different fuel regardless of the branding on the pump.
If you want to get fuel that is always made up of the same components in the same proportions then you will need to get yourself some reference fuel or much more economically, some race fuel at barely more than £4 a litre plus delivery, storage and so on for the cheap stuff.
The reality of ethanol in pump fuels is that if you have seals, sealants, hoses and diaphragms that are going to deteriorate in the presence of ethanol then they are going to deteriorate...it might(?!) be a royal pain to update these components but it might not actually be avoidable except in the very short term.
Ethanol is here, there's going to be more of it and even if it turns out to be the politically convenient blind alley that it may well be it is going to be years before it can possibly go away. Of course, should that happen the politicos will find something to replace it that will rot ethanol compatible materials.

If this sounds unduly pessimistic then apologies, I don't like the situation either and can think of much better places for high ethanol levels than petrol; Talisker and Bruichladdich are two that spring to mind.

I dread to think what I will have to do to get the +8 to run without melt down if E10 is introduced. I better source some knock sensors quick and replace everything that comes into contact with it with aircraft grade materials, and run a pre-drive check list for fuel leaks. Sounds like a move to make manufacturing and running petrol engined cars prohibitively expensive and push the industry into another direction, not that I am a cynic

Time to write letters to MPs, but maybe it's too late already and the Elephant is already in the room, how did it sneak up on us

Excellent explanation, this puts a really clear position on it. Meddling due to EU directives again. One size fits all and the rest of you be damned.

Sounds like Millers could make a good service out of E85 conversions ? Tank/Hose etc ?

This will become a serious issue if the % of Morgans made that are still on the road today is to be maintained. It would be pretty shocking if this were to be death of a thousand cuts.

Based on what I have read and received from a friend of mine who is a chemical engineer, I would urge you all to write to your MP's and raise the question as to the governments policy on this directive and its impact of vehicle built prior to 2007 or not designed to run with ethanol in whatever quantity added to Petrol.

If this slips passed us we may be faced with some very expensive issues as to how to be able to run and maintain our cars and not necessarily those that are that old!

I have sent a letter to Neil Parrish asking him to raise this as a question in the House. I wait with baited breath.

I have now switched to super & the car is running much better.
Quieter with no pops & bangs on the over run.

Tme will tell but there is a difference.

Oh, that was you the other Saturday - I just thought my blowing manifold gasket was getting worse!!!

Calum - I'm with you on that last line... Looking forward to sampling a few next month

Unfortunately in Devon, ESSO are putting Ethanol in the Super Unleaded, Shell I think are also, trying to find out about BP Ultimate in Devon. Looks like I need to put in a Ethanol Stabilser at fill ups.

I also found this on the www, interesting response from Shell to a USA classic owner


When I had my Mark 2 restored it would not run properly and there was contamination in the fuel filter, after several tries at a remedy we found it was the fuel tank that had been "attacked" by the ethanol in the fuel. We wrote to Shell querying this fuel and this was there reply:

Unfortunately the simple answer to your questions is that 'There isn't a simple answer'. The Issues you raise are certainly real issues for vintage car owners. The fuel we sell will continue to comply with the relevant fuel standards and specifications as it did previously. The finished petrol will meet the UK gasoline standard EN228, and the maximum amount of ethanol blended into the fuel will be in line with this and the RTFO (renewable fuel transport obligation - 5% max). However that doesn't really help owners of vintage vehicles. There are serveral things you can do to minimise the effects of ethanol. Firstly run a non-alcohol based fuel stabilizer all year round. As you say, older engines were designed primarily for straight gasoline, and using ethanol without protection may cause corrosion of some metals in the engine. It also may damage natural rubber and cork parts. Fuel Stabilizers (I believe Stabil do a product) contain additives to protect against rust and corrosion caused by ethanol fuel blends. If practical Install a water separation filter and fuel filter, and replace fuel lines, gaskets or o-rings with new ethanol resistant materials. Similarly replace the fuel tank if necessary with one made from an ethanol resistant material.

In terms of laying up the vehicle; Assuming the above measures are in place (I cannot make a laying up procedure if they are not, as it simply would not be advisable with fuel containing ethanol), I would suggest filling the fuel tank to about 95% of its capacity with fuel, rather than leaving the fuel tank low. This minimizes; the tank-breathing effect, the loss of volatile components and the ingress of moisture into the fuel tank. The later in extreme cases can cause the appearance of free-water in the fuel.

If a fuel is to be stored in a motor vehicle fuel tank, then maintaining fuel quality is important in order to maintain good start-up and a good level of vehicle driveability. When an engine fails to start after a period of lay up, it may be less to do with fuel deterioration, and could be related to un-seasonal fuel, which may not be sufficiently volatile to start the engine from cold. Non volatile residues are often observed in the fuel tank, delivery system and/or carburetors in cases of severe evaporative loss of a gasoline. The residue can manifest itself as either a gum or lacquer-like film or deposit, or a gel-like substance. This residue would be a combination of low-volatility constituents and detergent additives that are found in gasoline, but concentrated after evaporation. We do not advise storing fuels in vehicles for more than 6 months. You should also take into account the differences between summer and winter grades of petrol. Petrol has a higher volatility in the winter in order to enable cold starting. For this reason it is better to fill the tank with a winter grade fuel (16th October - 14th April) rather than a summer grade.




Sheila De'Ath
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