Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) wishbone front suspension

One of the kits that went out for home fitting was to Norway. One of the well respected engineers who I had known a very long time so he was trusted. If anybody has followed the saga of Froya the Morgan which is a 60's Plus 4 that did the Peking Paris that gives Trond Brathen credibility as an engineer. After we laid down the basic chassis he built that car which belongs to his customer Bjorn Schage, who has a lovely wife that owns an early Roadster 4 seater. That was the car Trond converted to double wishbones probably 10 years ago. He had the car in his workshop last year to give the front a good looking at after 60 thousand miles. A lot of wear was expected so he was prepared to take it apart. Apart from the rubber inner bushes on the wishbones, it was all perfect. He had bushes in stock, just cleaned it and gave it some more paint.
As in the notes from Dave Rutherford the inner wishbone bushes are Lotus parts as used on the 70's Plus 2 models. Lotus dealers know how to charge so I got them direct from the manufacturer, company called Robush. They may not deal with small numbers from the public. No use asking them for Lotus bushes, they will want sizes. Which I cannot remember apart from the centre bore is 12.7mm (1/2"). Probably less hassle to pay a bit more through Lotus if needed. Try Allon White.
Top and bottom ball joints are a different matter. These were a headache. When Rob turned up at the workshop with a pile of bits and the instructions to 'sort it', that took a while. Alan Staniforth built lightweight. Top balljoints were probably Triumph herald/GT6. The bottom joints were Jaguar XJ6 bolted onto a welded block under a cut down stock upright. Those Jag joints are bombproof. Except they were mounted upside down, so all the load was on the pressed dust cover. Could not turn them around so had to find an alternative. Went to our friendly ball joint manufacturer called Amsteer. Known them years. They only make ball joints. Explained and they came up with a heavy duty joint used by TVR, so I asked for those but machined to use the Jaguar ball and pin as I had already made a batch of tapers.
Top joint is also Jaguar XJ6 based, but turned 90 degrees. Looks the same as standard Jag, but is not. Top has grease nipple so should never wear out. There were some top and bottom joints in stock which went with the spares to the new owners along with all the jigs.

Thank's Peter

I'll try the new owner of Mulfab to see if he still has spare joints on the shelf?

As I'm sure you can appreciate, grease nipples or sealed units, all steering joints are ultimately consumable items, and quite rightly they are also an MoT failure if worn. So, being able to source replacements is essential for anyone like myself with one of your Mulfab front wishbone conversions, thankfully Amsteer still exists, which is a big relief.

https://www.amsteer.co.uk/index.php?route=common/home

If the new owner of Mulfab can't help me let's hope Amsteer are the kind of company who will support the remanufacture of very low production custom joints they produced many years ago?

I feel the sensible approach here will be for me to call them to discuss my requirements, hopefully Amsteer will agree to me removing my top and bottom joints so I can send them in for inspection, and ultimately duplication? I've actually identified wear in one of my joints which is why I raised the point, I already need one replacement and in my experience the same joint on the opposite side will be soon to follow suit.

Ultimately I would feel way happier holding spares of both top and bottom joints to cover the inevitable future maintenance requirements of my Morgan, Monty is a car I intend to keep so having access to consumable components that are also a potential safety issue and MoT fail is absolutely essential.

Peter, if you can offer any support before I contact Amsteer myself, even if it's just a name or better still a direct introduction to one of their engineers, I would be very grateful indeed.

Kind regards, Dave.

Ok, so I checked my top and bottom joints properly yesterday and they're actually in perfect condition, no wear at all. However, all four wishbone bolts were loose, tightening them seemed to make the steering feel even more precise. I think the odd feeling I wrongly put down to a worn joint was actually the loose bolts allowing a little wishbone deflection when loaded up with steering input at parking speeds, anyway its all sorted now and an easy fix.

Talking of steering, while it's true to say there is less self centering effect with the Mulfab wishbone conversion, it's not like there's no self centering at all, it's just less than most road cars. It was noticeable on my first drive of Monty, but it literally took me a few hundred yards of driving to get used to it. I'd liken it to learning the clutch on any car you're driving for the first time, indeed after a week of driving the car I fell in love with the steering, I guess this is because I'm interacting with the steering more, so it creates a more connected feeling with the car.

Wise, dear Peter. I am shocked at how facts and history change the longer the distance between then and now. I can no longer recognize the tales with myself in them! Here are some piccies I took of the front of that car at your place, the one you had with Chas. I still have (somewhere) the vid of the rear suspension. This was all before the later suspension modifications that have been flogged.





Lorne

Thanks for the photos Lorne, that's the exact setup I have, less the two part vented discs and Hispec calipers.

When I spoke about the system with Simon Hall of SiFab just before he closed his doors, he told me he was responsible for fabricating all of the six Mulfab front wishbone conversions sold, I guess he should know how many exist if he built every one?

The history is, Monty first registered KX61 ECY was purchased new by a Mr Derek Ainscow from Phil Benfield of Allon White Sports Cars in May 2012, I believe the car was an Allon White demonstrator? However, I guess Derek wasn't that impressed with Morgan's sliding pillar front suspension because by 27th March the following year, and after he'd only driven Monty 3,033 miles, the car left Mulberry Fabrications Ltd (MULFAB) having received the costly front wishbone conversion.

There were other works during that visit to Mulfab, most notably the supply and fitment of the beautifully fabricated all aluminum radiator the car still has to this day, the wishbone conversion was charged at £4,950 plus 20% VAT, so Derek actually paid £5,940 for the front suspension element.

Here's the receipt:



Derek clearly loved Monty, although over the next 9 years he actually only covered a further 7,219 miles, an average yearly mileage of just 802 miles! Derek kept Monty until I became the second owner on the 18th June 2022 with the odometer reading only 10,252 miles, and when the car looked like this:



As cataloged on these pages I then set about developing the car to deliver it's true potential by upgrading the rear suspension to compliment the excellent performing front wishbone conversion that Derek kindly paid for, and then tuning Monty’s Duratec engine to what should be around 200 horsepower so I can properly enjoy the suspension upgrades.

During my 15 months of ownership I've covered a shade over 5,000 miles in Monty who is now registered L24 TOK, this has included two consecutive trips to the Le Mans Classic (2022 & 2023), during this time I've also backdated the car's cosmetics somewhat for a more authentic look while at the same time transforming Monty's handling, ride quality, and performance.

The car now looks like this:



Monty is now my perfect Morgan

No problem Monteque. We apparently share an enjoyment when such things are told accurately. Thank you as well.


I do not recall that but Peter would be the best source to confirm. He was always fully in charge. I do recall Simon telling me he designed the 4/4 Runabout setup for the Factory when he was working for Thorne, We all owe a lot to Peter. The Works doesn't acknowledge ex-Works ideas, but many of the better elements of the last decades of trads started in his shop. A perfectionist in his designs.

You should read up on Allan Staniforth The guy was brilliant, without extensive training. Admittedly I found myself cocking my head at weird angles to understand his drawings.

At the risk of censure here, I must state that I have always enjoyed the silly Morgan trad front suspension. Mark Baldwin once remarked to me that it is a Morgan signature and joins us all to the wonderful cutting edge technology of 1909. I find it deliciously comfortable, even sensuous, but I have made sure mine functions as it should and maintain it religiously. That is beyond the owners of today. We have embraced technology wholly.

Lorne

(When I spoke about the system with Simon Hall of SiFab just before he closed his doors, he told me he was responsible for fabricating all of the six Mulfab front wishbone conversions sold.)

Sadly Simon kept commenting how he was responsible for designing and making virtually everything. Even though the first was done before he arrived. He did not make them all during his employment, and there were few more in the years after he left.

I was surprised to see one of our invoices for the kit. Apart from my Roadster we never actually installed one ourselves. Rob Wells fitted his own and brought the car up for checking. We shared the workshop with Chas Windridge who was Mogsport and they did all the installations. We paid them £3527.27p on 10th April 13. Knowing Chas, they did not want to invoice direct so they could not be responsible if anything went wrong.

I don't have any contact names at Amsteer, so whoever answers the phone, although it seems the balljoints are not an issue. They are so overengineered for the application. The top has a grease nipple, so should never wear out. There was no room to fit a nipple to the bottom joint. The only comment I would make when tightening the long wishbone bolts, probably with the wheels off for access, is to have axle stands under the hubs so any tightening is with the wishbones at ride height so the bushes are not preloaded.
Peter

Brilliant Peter, the information you've shared is an invaluable contribution to Monty's history archive and is much appreciated

So, it would seem Chas Windridge of Mogsport fitted my wishbone conversion and Simon may or may not have fabricated the setup on my car, what I can say is the whole conversion looks extremely well designed and nicely put together.

When I found the loose wishbone bolts the wheels did come off, and I preloaded the suspension with a stand under each lower wishbone, as I say the top and bottom joints were perfect so I gave the top ones a shot of grease and continued my checks, that's actually when I found the loose wishbone bolts. The very slight notchyness I was feeling through the steering wheel, largely around the straight ahead position, must have been deflection because as soon as I test drove the car after tightening the wishbone bolts, the unwanted sensation was gone.

One last question if I may?

Simon explained to me the steering rack used is a Mk1/2 Ford Escort item, if this is correct do you know what ratio was used? Mine seems to be 2.7 turns lock to lock which is fine for road use, however, for more spirited driving and track use where I may need to quickly apply opposite lock, I feel a 2.4 turns LTL rack may be beneficial. Such a ratio swap would be relatively inexpensive, assuming it is indeed an Escort rack, brand new quality Escort steering racks are of course freely available in many ratios from suppliers such as Motorsport Tools etc,. Obviously Monty's steering then becomes heavier, so I suspect it may force an electric power steering conversion which does then start to make the project expensive.

As it stands the unassisted steering is close to perfect for road driving just as it is, the lower than normal self centering effect is slight and a complete non-issue as in my opinion it only serves to deliver a more connected driving experience, a bit more steering lock would be nice though, although I doubt Monty's turning circle is any worse than a standard Trad Morgan?

Overall I have to say the Mulfab front wishbone conversion would be an excellent upgrade for any Morgan owner looking to improve the ride quality and tun-in on their Trad, I do however wonder if the addition of a front anti-roll bar could make it even better? It's a shame the system is no longer in production, it seems to me if someone had £6k to spend on improving the ride and handling of their Trad, the wishbone conversion would be a better choice than spending the similar sum on the SSL five link rear suspension kit.

The wishbone conversion completely removes the antiquated Morgan sliding pillar arrangement and replaces it with the proven setup of coil over dampers with unequal length wishbones, in contrast and to my mind the SSL five link only really gives benefit by replacing the leaf springs with coils and £6k seemed like an awful lot of money for a the small ride quality benefit of coils sring over leaf springs. I also figured the remaining axle location improvements the SSL five link setup offers could be acheived on a leaf sprung car with the simple installation of an inexpensive Panhard rod and anti-tramp bars so his was my approach. However, I decided not to fit the anti-tramp bars because my hope was the BCC anti-tramp springs would mean I didn't need them? It does seem I made the right choice because even though I'm now pushing 200 plus horsepower I've experienced zero tramp on my setup, the quality Bilstein dampers I chose will certainly be helping here too.

Dave.

One last question if I may?

Simon explained to me the steering rack used is a Mk1/2 Ford Escort item, if this is correct do you know what ratio was used? Mine seems to be 2.7 turns lock to lock which is fine for road use, however, for more spirited driving and track use where I may need to quickly apply opposite lock, I feel a 2.4 turns LTL rack may be beneficial. Such a ratio swap would be relatively inexpensive, assuming it is indeed an Escort rack, brand new quality Escort steering racks are of course freely available in many ratios from suppliers such as Motorsport Tools etc,. Obviously Monty's steering then becomes heavier, so I suspect it may force an electric power steering conversion which does then start to make the project expensive.
It is indeed a standard 2.7 rack from memory. Easier steering was more relevant than sporting pretensions. Mk 1 and Mk2 basically are identical. The only difference are the threads on the ends. Mk 1 racks are 1/2 unf, Mk 2 are metric, probably M14. The factory track rod ends for rack cars was 1/2" unf.

As it stands the unassisted steering is close to perfect for road driving just as it is, the lower than normal self centering effect is slight and a complete non-issue as in my opinion it only serves to deliver a more connected driving experience, a bit more steering lock would be nice though, although I doubt Monty's turning circle is any worse than a standard Trad Morgan?
I remember measuring the Jack Knight rack travel and comparing to the Escort and they were very much the same, so the amount of total lock will be similar.
If memory behaves, the early Plus 8 stub axles had 6.1/2" from king pin centre to track rod. Later rack stub axles were 5.3/4" centres making them quicker. It is possible to shorten the arms and make a quicker steering, but not a job to be undertaken unless competent. I don't have a workshop anymore. (yet?)

Overall I have to say the Mulfab front wishbone conversion would be an excellent upgrade for any Morgan owner looking to improve the ride quality and turn-in on their Trad, I do however wonder if the addition of a front anti-roll bar could make it even better? It's a shame the system is no longer in production, it seems to me if someone had £6k to spend on improving the ride and handling of their Trad, the wishbone conversion would be a better choice than spending the similar sum on the SSL five link rear suspension kit.
I did have a front anti roll bar on my Roadster initially. Then tried it without and no noticeable difference. There was minimal roll anyway, and all the anti roll bar did
was take away a chunk of ground clearance. Sliding pillar gives a front roll a long way below ground level, depending on the camber. Look at a standard car on track cornering hard and the roll is very pronounced. With the wishbones the front roll centre was designed at 3 inches above ground. The rear roll centre, assuming Panhard Rod fitted will be about 6 or 7 inches, so the roll axis is relatively flat. Don't bother with a front bar.

The wishbone conversion completely removes the antiquated Morgan sliding pillar arrangement and replaces it with the proven setup of coil over dampers with unequal length wishbones, in contrast and to my mind the SSL five link only really gives benefit by replacing the leaf springs with coils and £6k seemed like an awful lot of money for a the small ride quality benefit of coils spring over leaf springs. I also figured the remaining axle location improvements the SSL five link setup offers could be achieved on a leaf sprung car with the simple installation of an inexpensive Panhard rod and anti-tramp bars so his was my approach. However, I decided not to fit the anti-tramp bars because my hope was the BCC anti-tramp springs would mean I didn't need them? It does seem I made the right choice because even though I'm now pushing 200 plus horsepower I've experienced zero tramp on my setup, the quality Bilstein dampers I chose will certainly be helping here too.
Spot on. Heard good reports with the BCC rear springs.
Peter.

Hi Peter - it’s really great to read your contributions, but would be easier if the previous posts were “quoted” clearly!